Ellis, Weeks...solution is out there Billy; get after it
by TripleA's on Jun 19, 2011 4:45 PM PDT
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Before I begin, let me state my appreciation for Mark Ellis. This man has been the best defensive second baseman in the major leagues for several years running, and disgustingly never won a gold glove. His Offensive output has been icy or incendiary, depending on the time of year, and he's as professional as any team could want in a long term player. The decision that looms in wake of the Weeks emergence is really a non-decision. The A's have been reluctant or late to sign Ellis each year because of the imminent ascension of Jemile Weeks, which has come to fruition over the past week+. Its obvious what must happen, as the dominoes have aligned.
The Giants are in dire need of a second baseman that can play everyday and contribute to a title defense. The A's have exactly that guy. The A's are in need of a stopgap starting pitcher that has a steady history of not visiting the disabled list. The Giants have exactly that guy. To boot, the Giants have a roster juggling problem with the emergence of Ryan Vogelsong and a now healthy Barry Zito pitching in AAA ball.
Yes, I said it. Trade Mark Ellis to the Giants for Barry Zito. Obviously the Giants eat 65%+ of the behemoth contract, leaving the A's with approximately a $6ish million dollar pitcher that has a career 3.77 ERA at the Coliseum. Ben Sheets anybody?
Roll out a starting five that looks like it did at the beginning of the year, except plug Zito into Dallas Braden's spot.
Cahill/Gio/Zito is a steady stable of horses that have a very healthy track record.
Drop in a mixture of Ross/McCarthy/Harden/Anderson or basically...whoever doesn't end up hanging with Dr. Andrews all year. When this last batch of guys get healthy, or even half of them....drop Zito into the 4th or 5th starter role and skip him as necessary...OR abuse the hell out of his durability and give the kids an extra day off here and there to preserve their golden wings for years to come, depending on how the division race is going. Need a win? Sit Zito. Want to rest Cahill? Pitch Zito.
In any case, something needs to be done and this is a very obvious fix. It's no secret the Giants are sick of Zito and there was talk of just dumping his contract out of spring training. Not to mention, that man needs a change of scenery like nobody else. I'd be willing to bet Zito in the gold jersey will pitch better than the Giants version of the same head case.
Anyway, what say you?
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Normally I'd say not a snowball's chance in hell
But the one thing that makes me wonder about Zito is he’s ditching his slider and going back to just the pitches he threw early in his career. That’s enough to at least stop and thing.
Though, yeah – the Giants would have to eat a MINIMUM of 65-70% of that contract. I don’t see that happening just for them to fill a hole at 2B.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Interesting on the slider...
I actually think that the key pitch that determine’s Zito’s success is his changeup – even though his best pitch is a curveball, I think when he has his changeup working he’s that much more effective.
I really don't think they would even need to eat that much
Zito’s basically worth $10M a year at market rates as a durable, average pitcher. They’ll have to do better than that if they want a serious return, but (sorry Mark…) Ellis, at this point, is not a serious return.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Don't look now, but the report is...
According to Hank Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle, the Giants “asked questions” about Oakland second baseman Mark Ellis this past weekend.
GET ER DONE BILLY!
Although I don't like it, I think Ellis going to the Giants
is very plausible.
Ellis has been around long enough that Beane is friendly with him. Enough that I think Beane cares about trying to get Ellis whatever he wants next for his career. I see Billy having a meeting with Ellis (probably already has) saying “we’ve decided we want to stick with Jemile as our starter, so what do you want to do? You want to stay on as a backup? play in AAA for a while? get traded to another team where you might start?”
At which point I think Ellis’s answer is that he wants a trade if possible, and a trade to SF is the least disruptive for him*. If Sabean is interested, then it’s just a question of how much salary each team assumes and what token prospects come along to satisfy appearances. But really, I think if Ellis can play in SF and they’ll take on his salary, Beane would send him over for free with his blessing.
* (Well, second least disruptive, I guess. First would be Arizona.)
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
lol
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
by j-spliff415 on Jun 20, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Well said...
"I don't know a (expletive) Jew who would have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight. You don't ever tip, huh?" -- Chris Penn, from Reservoir Dogs
Howsabout' Ellis and Sogard for Romo?
If this is ridiculous never mind I dont really act like I understand these things.
But I think Sogard would open up yet another 40 man spot.
meh
That’s just a dump for dump’s sake. We have no use for Romo.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 20, 2011 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Romo would probably be our best reliever
So yeah, I think we could find room for him. They’d never do that deal, though.
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by CaliforniaJag on Jun 20, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
No.
Who’s gonna QB my Cowboys after that trade?!
If you'll excuse me, all of you, I'm going to go tearily spill my heart out to my only friend, the water heater. --danmerqury
nobody cares.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Looks to me like Zito is owed a guaranteed $40 million plus
over the next two years (2012-13), assuming very reachable vesting numbers. I can’t imagine the Giants paying that kind of money to get rid of him. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
I can't imagine them paying him $126million, but what do I know?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 19, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
With the Giants selling out every game to the bandwagon...
…I’d imagine they’re going to make $40 million this year alone on garlic fries. The money isn’t the problem(for them anyway), its their roster logjam.
I don't care how many garlic fries you're selling,
when you’re paying over $40M to Mark DeRosa, Aaron Rowand, Barry Zito and Miguel Tejada, it puts a crimp in things.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Jun 20, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice idea.
But though Zito may have a career 3.77 ERA at the Coliseum, he hasn’t pitched there consistently since he signed across the bay and became the current AAA pitcher he is.
One thing I don’t get. You say “Need a win? Sit Zito.” This implies that we shouldn’t pitch him if we need a win (which at this point, we REALLY need wins). So why trade for him at all? Might as well keep Ellis around as a defensive replacement, pinch hitter type guy instead, or else ship him in a package to another team for a better pitcher.
Plus, yeah, the Giants eating 65% of his contract just to get a second baseman and rid themselves of Zito? Ellis isn’t worth that much at this point in the season.
"Never in your wildest alcoholic dreams could you conjure up a game like this!" Ken Korach.
"I mean he's only got 3 pitches, he's been in the league for nine years. How hard can it be? Yet he always seems to have problems with catchers." Glen Kuiper (of all people) about John Lackey.
Well, what do you propose the Giants do?
Release Vogelsong to put Zito back in the rotation? Option him to AAA? Seeing as how he looks legit in every facet, that seems MORE ludicrous than trying to ditch Zito.
by TripleA's on Jun 19, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather give the money to Cramer
If one of them has to get it, that is.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Vogelsong for Ellis :-)
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 20, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Too good, won't happen. Romo is a beast, Giants won't trade him.
Think about it from the Giants perspective also. They don’t want Zito anymore. Vogelsong has been their best pitcher, period. NOBODY is inquiring about Zito because of that bloated contract and his SF regression. Its a brutal decision, but it makes the most sense for SF. Eat the contract, get rid of the guy and fill a spot that needs filling. A month ago my brother-in-law said Zito was coming back to the A’s and I heartily LOL’d. Now, with Weeks and Vogelsong forcing tough decisions…it actually makes sense.
Dude, your sig is Bill King! Not Korach...
We love KK, but give Bill credit for this bit of awesomeness.
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.
by the_rozeboom on Jun 19, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I heard KK say it once,
he was paraphrasing Bill. I’ve had this conversation with Nico already, lol. I wasn’t paying attention to baseball when Bill originally said it, but I heard KK say it a few years back.
"Never in your wildest alcoholic dreams could you conjure up a game like this!" Ken Korach.
"I mean he's only got 3 pitches, he's been in the league for nine years. How hard can it be? Yet he always seems to have problems with catchers." Glen Kuiper (of all people) about John Lackey.
by offthefoulpole on Jun 20, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
It might be since Zito has no place in their rotation.
The Giants would consider dumping Zito—especially for a fill-in like Ellis (if they hadn’t signed Hall)—because they have 5 starters who are much better than him right now. The Giants probably like the insurance he provides, but he’s a long man at this point with the Giants. So if the Giants could eat 3/4ths of his contract, I don’t think they wouldn’t do it. I think they WANT to do it; just nobody in baseball is going to bite while Zito is pitching like my nine year old niece. That said, for $3 mill a year, with the A’s starting rotation depth problems, I’d do it—and I think Zito sucks. But coming to the A’s may rejuvinate him, and the A’s need starting pitching right now just as much as they need some help at the plate. Call me crazy…
"I don't know a (expletive) Jew who would have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight. You don't ever tip, huh?" -- Chris Penn, from Reservoir Dogs
the A's can't afford to
eat up a roster spot with with Ellis riding the bench. He doesn’t play 3rd or short (though he could in a pinch). A team like the A’s can’t afford to hold a roster spot for a back up 2nd baseman. He either needs to be dealt or released so he can sign with a contender. I don’t see teams giving up much of anything for Ellis at this point, even if he is healthy.
I'm not sure though. Right now Barton is acting as the backup first baseman, and they have both a fourth and fifth outfielder.
I’m starting to think that Ellis as backup 2B would be unconventional but feasible if they decided that they really wanted Ellis to play out his contract with the A’s.
Of course, as great of a guy as Ellis is we don’t know how he would feel about this. It may be that he would prefer a trade so that he could play every day, and I wouldn’t blame him for it.
Exactly right.
The A’s can’t waste the roster spot on a guy that isn’t a ‘utility’ infielder. I mean send Barton down in the short term works, but a decision still has to me made regarding Ellis. Its not like Kendall and Suzuki where a team NEEDS two catchers. Rosales is more valuable than Ellis in a utility role, and since Weeks has proved more explosive than Ellis…well…the writing is on the wall.
How about sending Barton down
and move Ellis to first? With his d skill I think Ellis should be ok there.
by sfniners4life on Jun 19, 2011 7:59 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Why would you send Barton down in favor of one of the few players in MLB that has hit worse than him?
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
To see if he can get hot offensively
thus increase his trade value while let Barton sort things out in AAA.
by sfniners4life on Jun 19, 2011 9:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Ellis has hit worse, but at least he's never played 1B before either
oh..
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Actually he had a few inning here in there in 05 and 06 but ya isn't
something he is accustomed too nor an option that should be considered. With CoJax and Powell on the roster, first is fine if Barton is jettisoned to the Rivercats short term until they either deem Carter is “ready” or Barton figures things out.
I think Ellis is worth more than Zito at this point.
In fact, I wouldn’t take Zito for free. Given the choice, I’d hang onto the Unicorn for awhile and trade him closer to the deadline if a good deal comes along.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
Really? You don't think he's better than Godfrey?
For free, he’s fine. It’s the money that’s a real problem.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Given our starting pitching
… I have no issue paying Zito 3mil a year for 2 years, and the Giant’s picking up the remaining 34mil, but seems unlikely….
This made me Lol.
Giant’s picking up the remaining 34mil
What a hilarious contract.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
And what exactly do you think Mark Ellis' trade value is?
He’s under appreciated in the league, meaning the suitors will be few and far between. The Giants lost Freddy Sanchez for the year, almost certainly. It makes perfect sense to pull off this deal while the Giants are still in first place and thereby maximizing the value that Mark Ellis brings. Not to mention Ellis is getting paid $6 million, so salary-wise this trade would be a wash for this year. And offer flexibility next year if say…Anderson indeed needs tommy john.
that is tons of money they will have to eat.
he has about 57,000,000.00 left plus a 7,000,000.00 million buyout for the 8th year.
That would be about 46,000,000.00 they would have to eat if the A’s agreed to pay 6million a year.
Anderson will probably come back this year but will bite the bullet and get the surgery next year. With Outman looking healthy and being Braden’s first injury. Next year year looks good for a good depth at starting pitching. Moscoso and Godfrey will have some good experience. Barry’s career has seemed to be going down and he might not be that much better than Moscoso or Godfrey option. Being how cheap the A’s are if there is not much benefit over a pitcher who will make low money over a guy will make millions; that money can be spent elsewhere.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
I don't want the A's getting Zito
And I sure as hell don’t want the Giants anywhere near Mark Ellis
Bring Dan Haren back to Oakland!
No on Zito
Cannot stomach the opposition torching him.
He’s their problem. Let’s keep it that way.
Ellis for minor league chum
How about Connor Gillespie? How about being daring and include Suzuki, and try and get Brandon Belt, or Brown from San Jose. I believe Donaldson could put up the same line as Suzuki in the Majors. His defense is not that bad, as I saw him gun down three would be base stealers on Sunday in Sacramento.
...
That’s like trying to trade John Danks for Billy Butler in fantasy and having the other person say “what would I have to add to get Pujols?”
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by CaliforniaJag on Jun 20, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
ha
why dont we just bring em all back
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
by j-spliff415 on Jun 20, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
How about this IF for Oakland; Eric Chavez, Tejada, Weeks, Giambi
or Kouz, Pennington, Ellis, Barton ???
Every man for himself...
Chavez is broken, Tejada sucks, and Giambi can't play D and is a pinch hitter at this point in his career.
So basically that infield would SUCK right now except for Weeks.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I agree with you 100%, but honestly is better than the one from opening day??
Every man for himself...
Everyone needs to remember that the Gnats are already paying him that money
one way or the other. It’s not like they can get that money back. If another team pays for part of that, it’s not like the Gnats are losing the rest of the money, they’re actually saving whatever the other team pays. They would obviously lose the services of Zito, but apparently they don’t mind that part.
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
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by CaliforniaJag on Jun 20, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
i thought we were going infielder and outfielder? those are 2 outfielders?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
No no no...
Trade Ellis to the Dutch Gooses of the California Beer League for Eric Byrnes.
"I don't know a (expletive) Jew who would have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight. You don't ever tip, huh?" -- Chris Penn, from Reservoir Dogs
KEITH GINTER!
BTW, Payton hit a homer in his first AB in an A’s uniform. Let’s do it!
I dont want Ellis gone
But it’s in the cards. Weeks is just tearing it up, and still has massive upside to unearth.
Now as far as getting Zito back, I could actually see that being a positive. But then again I subscribe to the mindset that the reason he has been so bad in SF is because they’ve got a few more rules against their players then we did. They don’t let him surf on his off days and I think having the relaxation of doing the other thing he truly loves plays a big part in his production.
However the fact remains that the Giants aren’t gonna eat that much of a contract for Ellis. And the other thing with that is I don’t beleive we need pitching. As a matter of fact I think that we are still solid there even with our injuries. So where does that leave us? Do we let Ellis go for cash and some minor league players?
The only way Ellis goes to the Giants is if we work a multi-team trade. We need to get our hands on some depth to replace the big piece we will be losing. Whether or not Ellis is on the field is irrelevant. The younger guys look up to him, and his presence is always felt. Hopefully we could look into a bat for 1B, OF, or DH. As down as I was on Matsui at the beginning of the season I’m seeing some upside coming free, and watching him play the outfield says to me he could do that for a few more games and let another slugger get in there.
by TheDudeAbides138 on Jun 21, 2011 10:38 PM PDT reply actions
Keep Ellis
simple as that…..he needs to be on the team for leadership and as a backup infielder, maybe an occassional pinch hitter. If someone has to go down to the minors, I’d say Rosales.
The greenmachine
disgustingly never won a gold glove
it’s a travesty. really. don’t even know what else to say. east coast bias…? something. and talk about a great role-model / teacher for Weeks. Ellis for life (but now, as infield coach)
while i’m at it…make RIckey a full time 1st base coach.
"I saw a curveball, that’s about it," Rangers’ manager Ron Washington said. "You can’t take anything away from the kid; he went seven innings, but it wasn’t any shutout stuff." - Ron Washington on Gio's performance and the 7 k's.
by catfish hunter on Jun 24, 2011 10:54 PM PDT reply actions
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