On and Off
It appears that with the A’s vs. Giants series underway, the stadium situation involving the teams are getting attention from an unlikely source: ESPN. Writer Howard Bryant wrote a great article summarizing the events that have led us to our current stadium situation, and it is a must read for all A’s (and Giants) fans out there. This, coming off the heels of Cohn’s "Interview" with Billy Beane, and the trailer for the new Moneyball Movie, and the A’s seem to be making a lot of press as of late. Couple that with the recent firing of Bob Geren and his replacement with Bobby v2, the demotion and dismissal of Kouzmanoff, the call ups of Weeks and Sizemore (and their subsequent awesomeness that has led to a three game winning streak), and there is a lot to talk about.
Off the Field
The stadium issue has become increasingly stale and tiring. We still have no word from Bud Selig on his decision about the A’s future situation, at a time when redevelopment agencies are hanging on by a hair. If redevelopment does go the way of the dinosaurs, it is likely that Oakland’s stadium hopes will be crushed. As it is, with the Oakland Redevelopment Agency’s recent purchase of the Henry J Kaiser Convention Center for $29 Million Dollars in order to provide budget relief for the city of Oakland, it is extremely realistic to ask if the city can even attempt to purchase the land at Victory Court, which was in question even before the ORA’s coffers had been plundered.
Remember that unlike San Jose’s situation, where a new city organization was founded in order to protect the land assets and funding necessary to complete the development of the Diridon site (Cisco Field or No), Oakland does not seem to have any backup plans for the purchase of the land at Victory Court or the relocation of the existing businesses. San Jose, on the other hand, has much of this already locked up, with most of the parcels already purchased, and the final lots ready to be acquired from AT&T. If the city or San Jose RDA cannot make the land purchase, the A’s are willing to buy or lease the land from them, something that will not happen in Oakland.
And we still have little news about the Victory Court EIR draft that’s still in the works.
Despite how much the Giants whine about how the A’s may kill them if they move south, I think the most telling graphic on how horrible the A’s situation in the Bay Area is right now is featured within the ESPN article.
Take a look at that. The Giants control almost the entire Bay Area; in the only split two team market in the country. And the county in question was once a shared county that did not destroy the Giants livelihood when both teams controlled it before.
I think its time to re-arrange the blocks.
I think everyone really needs to get on board and ask Bud to stop the TeA’se.
Want more info? Visit Marine Layer/Vertigo’s blog over! Best A’s Stadium Site (or stadium site period, I would say), on the net.
On the Field
Billy Beane was quoted in the interview with Cohn that the A’s, being 6 games out from the division, are still in it. The team, however, is still 9 games under .500, and that’s bad. So what should the A’s do? Blow it up or call in reinforcements?
I am towards something somewhat in the middle. Even though I believe that going half way in anything is the wrong way, the way that the A’s are situated right now, selling off their most valuable pieces will not bring much in the way of value. The A’s currently have few appealing trading chips that would fetch anything of interest that they are willing to give up (Willingham, DeJesus, Crisp), and those assets have not performed well enough that teams would give up prized prospects for them.
On the other hand, the A’s also have a lot of dead weight on the team that, if cut loose and replaced with prospects from the minors could provide a performance gain, bring back some low-level prospects, some salary relief, and allow the A’s (and fans) to watch the franchise’s future play at the same time.
The A’s injury situation might be righting itself soon as well (Willingham’s injury last night not withstanding). McCarthy, Ross and Harden (yes, I know, I know), may be back soon, and Mark Ellis is going on a rehab assignment, though if he still has a job on the team is in serious doubt.
If the pitching can come back, and the non-performers replaced with up and comers, the A’s chances might improve. Should we demote Barton and call up Carter to play 1B? Move Willingham to DH and call up Taylor to play the OF? If Willingham is injured, should we call up Taylor anyways? Cardenas? Should we call up Sogard and see if a three way battle with Rosales and Pennington will lead to any results before Grant Green is ready for the majors?
What would you do with this team?
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Comments
I would venture to say the "blow it up" option has, in a way, already taken place
Barton-about to be sent down
Weeks-new 2nd baseman
Kouzmanoff-should start looking to rent long-term in Sacramento
Geren-Hawaii
Matsui-playing every day
We are getting excited about Ross, McCarthy and yes, even Harden, coming back soon.
Billy firing Geren was a huge move. Though we all wanted it, few called it that I know of. So happy to see Kouz gone and really liking what Sizemore and Weeks bring to the table. I like that Melvin is rotating Powell in more often and that he is playing our biggest homerun bat in Matsui every day. Lots of change and I would venture to say were this team in place at the start of the season we would be at least .500 right now.
Our bullpen is as good as ever, Ross coming back makes me happy, even Brandon McCarthy is a plus. Harden for a few games should be exciting. I like our chances much better now than I did 2 weeks ago.
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
Right. Calling up young guys is playing for the future and the present,
because you don’t have to trade away your only valued assets to do it. If the young guys perform better than their replacements did (e.g., Weeks), you have improved your team now. Either way, you still have Willingham, Wuertz, etc., so you haven’t blown the team up, but you’ve made a definite play for the future with a chance to improve now as well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Off the Field...
It seems the cards are stacked against us. The population immediately around the current stadium cannot/will not support a competitive salary. It is not reasonable for us to expect management to take the Oakland A’s on as charity.
On the Field…
Ellis should never play for the A’s again. Barton should be in AAA.
We are one more losing streak away from selling off our tradables, and one winning streak away from being in it. Dallas Braden’s loss is the biggest we’ve had as he’s the guding voice on the pitching staff, and that shouldn’t be underrated.
Weeks playing well is a godsend. Sizemore does clutch things we do not believe in…. like being clutch. I pray he never learns we don’t believe in clutchitude. Our other guys are playing as they always have. Matsui hits a bomb now and then when allowed to play. Suzuki seems more likely to DP than 1B, and Pennington loves the two hole. (Who doesn’t?)
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/
I still elieve in clutchitude...
If he can channel his inner Marco Scutero, I’ll be pumped.
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Reppin' the Dirty Murda here
Even in our two counties, they’re both pretty split. Alameda is almost 50/50 between A’s and Giants fans.
Bring Dan Haren back to Oakland!
The whole stadium thing is getting super annoying at this point
Selig needs to step up and take stand.
by OkayJay81 on Jun 18, 2011 1:47 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Or step down like I've been calling for for years now...
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's make sure and keep pounding Selig's inbox with email's requesting resolution to the A's stadium issue.
Please email him at this address EVERY DAY…
Allan H. (Bud) Selig, Commissioner
The Office of the Commissioner of Baseball
245 Park Avenue, 31st Floor
New York, NY 10167
(212) 931-7800
You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ
Does anyone but his mom call him "Allan"?
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 18, 2011 6:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I think some people
call him names that might get rejected by the U.S. Postal Service.
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
I would also recommend emailing and or calling Irwin Raij....He is one of the members of the committee appointed by Selig to look into the stadium...
Here is his contact information:
Irwin Raij
Miami Office
305.482.8422
There is no A in OFFENSE!!
by wacchampions on Jun 18, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great article by Howard, indeed
We covered the Olympics together and he really is the nicest guy. Happy to see him raise some national attention on this issue.
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
That is pretty freaking cool, elcorata. And I agree, wonderful article by Mr. Howard.
I'm here to talk about the past.
This whole ballpark thing is well past annoying
is been two years since the BRC started to looking into it. How much more time do they need? At the end of the day is always about money in this case does the A’s have the finance in place and how much do the Giants want to allow the A’s move to SJ? Here’s a idea the niners been trying to build a new ballpark down there without any success maybe the A’s and the niners should work together for a new ball park.
by sfniners4life on Jun 18, 2011 3:15 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
DO YOU REALLY WANT ANOTHER SHARED STADIUM??????????
Sorry for the caps, but football ruins the field and we’d need to build a much larger stadium to be a baseball and football stadium. We’d have to redo the entire stadium plan…
I don't want the A's to share a ballpark either
but at this point I am willing to share just so the A’s can have new ballpark before our lease at Oakland runs out and we don’t have a place to call home.
by sfniners4life on Jun 18, 2011 1:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
no
fuck their park and anything to do with them
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
by ChickenStanley on Jun 18, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Sightlines are honestly terrible...
Not to mention, there’s plenty of places you cant see the whole field from in the left field corner… what modern ballpark is like that?
Ours would tell theirs to suck it…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed!
"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff
by Geronimo Berroa on Jun 18, 2011 5:16 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah
And what incentive do the Giants really have to allow that in the first place? They don’t WANT the A’s in the Bay Area, period.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
All the more reason why we be pointing the finger at them....
you want rivalry? Here’s your rivalry a brewin…
If this team moves from the bay area, I’m going to burn everything black and orange I see… and that includes Oregon State gear…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
the incentive its f-ing ridiculous that we are talking about building
a half billion dollar stadium to use 80 nights a year.
SJ and OAK should say “suck it, free loaders” and MLB should force teams to share.
Put a bird on it
CCC is A's territory in name only, for the most part.
That was not the case when I lived there in the early nineties. As Dylan says, things have changed.
The North Bay is the Giants, the South Bay and most of the East Bay is as well.
Oakland, Hayward, San Leandro, Alameda…boys, in the Risk game of fandom, we’re about to become extinct.
Between the Phone Booth and KNBR, they’ve managed to really out-maneuver our team. If it didn’t mean the death of us, I’d be impressed.
It's not gonna be the "death" of us
not sure how this whole thing will shake out … but the A’s will remain. They won’t be contracted and they won’t move out of the state. Those two things are givens.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Wishful thinking
Contraction is probably not going to happen, the MLBPA won’t allow it. But moving out of state to one of the many states still eminently willing to pony up pubic funds for a stadium, that’s going to happen if we don’t get a new ballpark in the Bay soon. And the path of least resistance, particularly given the demise of redevelopment, is San Jose.
by athletics68 on Jun 18, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not aware of a market that is actually likely to be able to support a team
You hear the most about Las Vegas and Portland, but ultimately it’s agreed they can’t probably support a team either.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
true about vegas. it's a dying city and was largely
a boom/bust phenom anyway. but if you bust out charts of metro areas that have emerged in the last two decades with somewhat stable economies, there’s quite a few metro areas that could support a move. the problem is gullibility. the stadium extortion racket is fairly well exposed now, so fewer cities are willing to signoff and commit scarce public funds to private playgrounds. that’s a huge holdup. I have no doubt MLB is dragging their heels looking to find a sucker to relocate not only the A’s, but a few other squads as well to follow the population shifts, just as the A’s, Giants and others did 4+ decades ago.
San Antonio has been mentioned, as has been Nashville. Charlotte is a viable market to some extent as well. I personally think if the A’s aren’t able to hit the SJ market, then they’re out of Cali entirely. Or contracted, which I still think can happen, in spite of the MLBPA (which is not all that toothy anymore anyway). What is certain is that old manufacturing-oriented cities are not going to sustain the sports market in the future.
I don't see contraction happening at all.
As far as out-of-state markets go, I think Charlotte would be the best option, with San Antonio being a possibility.
Nobody ever mentions Indianapolis. I always thought that might be doable.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Good point re: Indy.
Most forgettable big city I’ve ever been to, and maybe Selig feels the same way.
I think contraction is only possible to the extent that it might concentrate market power in fewer hands in some very select situations (Pittsburgh, KC, Oakland, Baltimore, and Tampa Bay).
Historically, relocation is the solution to demographic changes, but I’m not sure we have the national economy to support that kind of shuffle that we had in the post war years after WWII.
If I had a dime for every time somebody told me the A's were gonna leave
since I became a fan in ‘71, I’d be a millionaire. Quick, somebody better at math do the sums for me … how many times is that?
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
here's one for your collection.
I’m always happy to pay my way.
There's actually another big city that's more forgettable.
You’re just not remembering it.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
With the Loonie and the Dollar being at near parity
I wonder if Vancouver or Montreal (again) are viable.
I was actually surprised...
…that San Juan didn’t work out better when the Expos played some games there.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Low average disposable income.
Lots of fans is great, but not if they can’t afford $10 tickets.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
True that.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Montreal was viable all along
Pretty much every conceivable thing that could possibly have been done to kill baseball in Montreal was done.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
They were doing well before the '94 strike, right?
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 18, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
Then ownership embarked on an aggressive plan to kill the team from a talent, media, and facility perspective.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
hmm
just, hmm
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
by ChickenStanley on Jun 18, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
It hasn't worked out so well for the Nats.
Attendance is only a few 1000 ahead of ours, as is the Orioles. I think it was a bad move, and too bad they couldn’t get a new park done in Montreal.
I would follow them to Indianapolis and Portland.
Anywhere else, they’re on their own.
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 18, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Portland's a stretch...
Only because I live in Oregon now…
But anywhere outside of Oakland, San Jose, or Sacramento, and I give up on baseball entirely and give the MLB the middle digit for killing a team that was the only thing worth watching in the Bay Area – Baseball wise until 2000…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure... that's on the Giants' side of the bay.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
WE STILL HAVE ARMIES IN THE UKRAINE!!!
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Between the Phone Booth and KNBR, they’ve managed to really out-maneuver our team.
The KNBR aspect is often overlooked.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
The territorial map above reminds me of the map of Israel and the Middle East...
…that my intensely Zionist grandmother used to have on her wall: a tiny blue sliver surrounded by scarily colored Arab countries.
Can’t Bud see that the A’s are the Only Democracy in the Region? And that the Only Thing Those People in Marin, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, and Monterrey Counties Understand is Violence?
(Please note: these views, representing a rough translation of the views of my grandmother z’’l do not necessarily have anything to do with my views or the facts on the ground in Israel/Palestine. They’re pretty true about the Gnats and their fans, however.)
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 18, 2011 6:15 AM PDT reply actions
ha! I like the implied comparison between Oakland and Gaza.
Sad, funny, AND true.
how did it EVER get divided up like that?
i understand the a’s during their heyday willingly, albeit erringly, gave santa clara co to the giants but how does that division look fair to anyone
because the Giants said they wanted to build a new stadium there
and that would have actually been a good thing for the A’s, as they would have been the only team that was easily accessible by BART.
Because Wally Haas was
Either a really nice guy, or a big sucker. Either way, ultimately this whole mess is Wally’s doing. It’s the one really bad thing he did during his tenure as owner and it may end up being the end of us…
by athletics68 on Jun 18, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
It was Sandy Alderson, actually.
Ironically, a “detail oriented” guy who overlooked a kinda key detail one day.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He has admitted that in hindsight it was a mistake to not make it conditional.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Lack or foresight.
I understand why the Giants play it the way they do, but I don’t understand why others (Selig, et al) refuse to recognize the circumstances and deal with them accordingly.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Lack OF foresight, I meant.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
As is noted in Howard Bryant's excellent article,
giving rights to Santa Clara County was not entirely altruistic. If the Giants had moved there, it would have been a plus for the A’s at the time.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
That's what I don't get.
Even at the time, who in their right mind would have ever suggested (with a straight face) that the current split was fair? If I were a Giants executive I would have been embarrassed to suggest something that lop-sided for fear that people would reach across the table and slap me upside the head.
Really, if you think about it, WHY was it split to begin with? Especially when no other two-team markets were. What was the reasoning that it needed to be split?
And a curious side question from me… Why Monterey County? Is there really a threat of another team building a stadium there?
The whole history behind this thing just reinforces my belief that the A’s have always been “too nice” with regards to the Giants. They’ve never… ever… been nice in return. And I see Wolff as being too nice and too quiet now. I’m tired of being too nice and I want my team to stand up for itself.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
I wrote about this two years ago
I’m really glad Bryant took the flipside to the “altruism” legend. Prior to the giveaway, Bob Lurie and SF had lost twice at the ballot box. No one thought anything could be built in SF after that. Certainly no one was thinking about a privately financed ballpark at the time. Lurie looked south at two different sites: one in Santa Clara and another in San Jose. Both failed in elections, causing Lurie to look to Tampa.
Given those circumstances, what are you thinking if you’re Wally Haas? If Lurie can get it done in Santa Clara County, great. If Lurie failed the Giants leave and the A’s get the Bay Area all to themselves. Either way A’s have even better access to SF. In the future, SF might try for baseball again, creating a competitive situation between SF and Oakland. The Coliseum was one of the best ballparks in 1992, before it had been ruined by Mt. Davis. Haas himself wasn’t going to own the team forever. Can’t blame Haas for not having the foresight to think that Giants would build a ballpark on their own and use T-rights as a justification. It was practically inconceivable in 1992.
His point about the A's not being 100% altruistic was well-taken.
There was going to be something in it for them, absolutely.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Unrelated to this, but assuming the weather stays all right...
…you should be able to see A’s first round pick Sonny Gray pitch for Vanderbilt in the CWS today in about three hours (11 AM Pacific).
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I'm definitely going to watch the first inning.
Mostly so that I can spout off on all things Sonny Gray like I’m sure about everything for three years based on one inning.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The WHOLE first inning?
That’s like… a LOT of pitches, man.
"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 18, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Heh
Well, it’s started.
Looks like that new place has a lot of foul territory.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Conclusion after two pitches: SONNY GRAY SUCKS AND IS A HORRIBLE PICK!!!!
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Kid has some nasty drop on that change-up.
"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff
by Geronimo Berroa on Jun 18, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
My serious one-inning assessment:
Mechanics: Could be a bit better.
Fastball: Needs better command.
Curve: Excellent.
Changeup: Good but needs more differential (it’s only 7 MPH, 86/93)
Or not, who knows?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
those looked like sliders to me
And yeah, he’s a “max effort” delivery guy
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 18, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Final line
Gray: 4.2 IP, 3 ER, 8 H, 5 BB, 5 K, 99 pitches/55 strikes
He allowed the leadoff hitter to reach base in 4 out of 5 innings. He wasn’t hitting the corners with his fastball. He managed to get out of trouble several times and can field his position well. He was too wild today to stick around. He got bailed out in the 5th when he got pulled and the reliever got a strikeout to strand the bases. Gray left the game down 3-2, ended up with a no decision.
Absolutely
Chalk it up to first CWS game jitters.
So I shouldn't hold out much hope when he first faces the White Sox?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Doug Mathis to Rule Them All.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/06/athletics-sign-doug-mathis.html
"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff
by Geronimo Berroa on Jun 18, 2011 10:59 AM PDT reply actions
Questions regarding two-team markets, split vs shared
Help me talk this out…
We know the bay area is the only split two-team market. All the others (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles) are shared. Of those shared markets, Los Angeles is the only one like the bay area where geography plays a significant role in terms of distance between stadiums, stadiums in different cities, and so on. The teams in New York and Chicago essentially share, literally, the cities they represent, so I think the comparison is less relevant. They have more equal opportunity to market, and the onus is more on each team to just deal with it and market effectively.
One of the Giants’ claims is that they would lose out on corporate and fan bases if the A’s moved to San Jose. How do corporate and fan bases shake out in LA? Do the Angels draw corporate interest from downtown LA, or more only from Orange County? What about the Dodgers? Same with fans.
If the LA area is more divided in where each team draws from, then maybe the Giants might have a point… though I do think their 500K attendance loss number is exaggerated hyperbole. And I still don’t believe this justifies the splitting of the geographic area, just considering the argument from different angles.
Many here would counter that a Giants fans would go to a Giants game regardless, and same for the A’s and their fans. I believe that’s true… to a point. First, that would fade over time, and a team should be concerned with 10 and 20 years from now just as they are concerned with today.
Second, and this is the biggie… is loyalties and convenience. A true Giants fans will go to watch a Giants game regardless, yes. Same with a true A’s fan. But, the true fans are the minority. Teams depend for more of their attendance an average non-fans. The fan who is either casual, fair-weather, or tagging along with friends or family wanting to be entertained. All other things being equal, those people will choose convenience over team. (This bodes well for the A’s if they do get San Jose, btw)
Back in the day when it was the Coliseum and Candlestick, all other things were roughly equal, and more people chose the A’s and the Coliseum. Convenience, atmosphere, families felt it was safer for their kids, reasons like that. Once PacBell was built, it wasn’t equal anymore, and the attendance numbers showed this. As much as I detest the Giants and everything they stand for, they have the far superior facility and are a far more attractive entertainment option for the money-spending non-fan. To claim otherwise is simple denial, IMO. An A’s stadium in San Jose would bring a great deal of the equality in attractiveness and value back for the non-fan to consider, and also from a base that is a bit more affluent than the Oakland area.
Back to LA and how they handle it. When the Angels were bought by Disney they changed from “California” to “Anaheim”. Didn’t really do anything to help. Now, they’re promoting themselves as Los Angeles, much to the chagrin of the Dodgers, and it does have a broader appeal. I’m sure they also wanted to appeal to fans in the LA city area as well, rather then limit themselves to Anaheim and Orange County. Does anyone know if that has helped gain any new corporate sponsors from LA?
Talking this out makes me think that the Giants do have some legitimate concerns, but it does not change my mind. They are minor concerns, not fiscal life-or-death as the Giants portray them, and they can be addressed and dealt with. The very notion that the area needs to be split to begin with is absurd, especially when knowing the history.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
by UncleLeo on Jun 18, 2011 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Angels
Until Arte Moreno bought the Angels they were largely an Orange County team. They didn’t aggressively market the entire region, and it showed in the kinds of revenues they received annually. Moreno radically changed that thinking once he assumed the throne, culminating in the name change to Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. They continue to have O.C. sponsors and the legacy fanbase is still O.C., but the casual fans and corporates come from all over.
Did the Dodgers experience a DROP in local corporate or fan revenue?
If not, then I would think that that helps negate any Giants’ concerns regarding their marketing efforts in the south bay. Though that might be difficult to effectively judge right now as I think the Dodgers may be driving people away with their own antics.
The Giants will always have one marketing advantage for people that want to go to “The City” for their entertainment. Plus, they would gain back at least a portion of what they lose from the north and east bay… non-fans who don’t really care which team they go see and for whom SF would suddenly become more convenient than SJ.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Not at all
Under FOX the team constantly ran in the red, which was no problem for FOX since they could easily write it off. Once Frank McCourt came in he started to tighten the team’s purse strings even as revenues started to go through the roof.
good questions.
I look at the map, and I mostly think the Giants are concerned primarily by the loss of corporate revenue. They have the most affluent residential areas of the Bay wrapped completely up. But in the end, it’s corporate cash that matters now, and that’s concentrated more heavily in Silicon. LA’s situation strikes me as very different, in that both teams really are split along territory. The Dodgers have been traditionally aimed at the Hollywood-y cash and the entertainment industry, but the Halos are obviously swimming in the War Industry dough that defines OC. Now you made me curious.
Good post and a rec, from a Giants fan
"It feels awesome. Feels like when you were a kid and every guy gets a chance to be a hero, then you eat orange slices and kool-aid after the game. Except we’re nailing champagne right now." —Brian Wilson
"He just threw me a fastball in and I just put a good swing on the ball, and you know when you put a good swing on the ball, the ball go out."
-Egdar Renteria commenting on his solo home run in the 5th inning of Game 2.
by Sabean's_Folly on Jun 18, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't know if this has been mentioned
but is it just me or does Graham Godfrey look EXACTLY like Matthew Glave (the actor who played Glenn Guglia in The Wedding Singer)?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0322182/
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Waiting for Bud Selig is like waiting for Godot
I actually know Bud Selig a bit from my days in Milwaukee, many, many years ago. He has always been conflict averse. His form of leadership is to let people in conflict figure things out between themselves and to have the patience to wait until they do so. That’s why the owners like him so much, because he doesn’t interfere or pursue a personal vision. So basically, he’ll just wait and wait until either the Giants agree to something with the A’s or Wolff gives up and pursues another option. Selig’s one big strength is extreme patience. His one big weakness is that he cannot decide anything for himself (he’s not the brightest light on the Christmas tree).
And speaking of the Moneyball trailer, I’m in it! My heart felt like it skipped a beat when I saw it, I was so excited. I’m lucky my wife didn’t have to take me to the hospital.
At about the minute and a quarter mark
next to the tall kid, both of us standing and clapping.
by rovingralph on Jun 18, 2011 12:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Do you have any concerns regarding a San Jose stadium?
(If it happens, of course)
Will it be enough to make a substantial difference?
The styling is more modern than PacBell, which can be either good or bad. Not everybody likes the retro look, but I do. I went to Target Field a couple months ago, and it was nice… just nice. It didn’t “Wow!” me. From what I see of the Cisco design, it’ll be nice… just nice. That being said, it does fit well with the Silicon Valley region, I think. They can really take advantage of technology and appeal to fans that way.
I am more concerned with the size. Small doesn’t bother me, but 34K small does. Only 3K more doesn’t sound like a lot, but I think it would help a great deal to take advantage of big games and series.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Too late now, but...
…if they did do a theme, instead of “ballpark retro”, I’d like them to do a California Mission theme. That would really be cool.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Seconded
Though I’m not sure how well MIssion or Mission Revival translates to a 100-foot tall building.
Nelson Wolff Stadum - San Antonio, Texas.

It’s possible…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm hoping that there is space to add seats without creeping into the field.
If the A’s draw more fans, an expansion to 40k would be nice.
I believe the article is wrong on capacity.
Wolff stated it will seat 32k, not 34k, a small, very intimate setting—with outrageously high ticket prices.
I believe MLB was nudging them to raise the number upward to 34-36k.
IIRC. I can’t remember what the EIR actually assumed.
by LoneStranger on Jun 19, 2011 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Contra Costa is A's territory?
Try telling that to the people who live here. Ugh.
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
Reason #73,614 why splitting the territories is absurd.
The day the Giants deny season ticket sales to Contra Costa and Alameda county residents will be the day I take their side on the territorial rights issue.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
I'm not exaggerating
But I’d say there’s been only a few days where around town, I HAVEN’T seen a Giants/World Series cap or shirt. I was out at a local farmer’s market this morning… I’d say 70% of the baseball hats/shirts/etc. were black and orange. The World Series really shook up CoCoCo.
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
Part of that I would dismiss as bandwagonism.
But the Giants do have a broad self-proclaimed fan base, too.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
I've lived in Contra Costa all my life - Antioch and Concord.
I’ve always ALWAYS been outnumbered by Gnats fans… If the Giants made the playoffs, it was like they won the damn world series, even though they were geriatric and surely due to not make it far… The whole Barry Bonds home run crap spurred on that whole thing too…
Meanwhile, if the A’s made the playoffs it was ho-hum around anyone who wasn’t a sure-fire A’s fan.
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Great article
And a bit of disingenuousness on the parts of both Wolff and the Oakland politicians. When Wolff bought the A’s, Jerry Brown was still mayor. He had, and probably still has, absolutely no conception of the value of major league sports for a community. His press secretary at the time, Cari Beauchamp, told me that no matter how much she tried to convince Brown he was wrong, he simply wouldn’t listen. The result was that he rammed through the housing development and essentially gave Wolff (and A’s fans) the finger. Wolff then turned his back on Oakland and began working on Fremont.
Here’s where the disingenuousness comes in. Even though the Dellums and now Quan administrations have a different attitude than Brown, Wolff seems unable or unwillling to even consider Oakland again, so his talking about lack of viability could very well have to do with refusing to start at stage one, or to put too much time and energy into the city. From the perspective of the City, they don’t get how badly Brown treated Wolff and they’re forgetting that a developer scorning is a developer scorned. If they want Wolff, they’ll have to come up with something a little more substantive. And the Coliseum authorities are scumbags. They screwed over the A’s when Davis came here, and now they expect Wolff to grovel? Jeez.
by richwol1 on Jun 18, 2011 1:37 PM PDT reply actions 11 recs
I agree with this to a point...
…though you touch on that point as well.
Oakland… and I consider the city and the Coliseum authority together in this… has quite often treated the A’s as second-class citizens for decades. It pre-dates Jerry Brown (though he was the worst). How many times does a team have to get the finger before they stopped looking that direction? While I do think Wolff has ulterior motives in wanting San Jose, I don’t entirely blame him for rejecting Oakland now.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Quite well said
At the very least, even if the current administration of the City of Oakland had nothing to do with Jerry Brown, if they really want Wolff to reconsider Oakland as a place to build in, they need to take extra steps to show they really are committed to working with the team.
On the other hand, Wolff needs to be willing to look at Oakland seriously again and I don’t know if that’s going to happen.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
And even if he cured cancer, balanced the budget, and sent me a check for $100,000
Jerry Brown can forever kiss my ass.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
It really didn't bother me that he didn't care to help the A's...
…as I don’t believe in public financing of stadiums anyway, but he seemed to actively go out of his way to thwart the whole deal. Overall I felt he was a good mayor for Oakland, and kept good priorities, but in this matter he was way off-base (no pun intended).
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
The whole Uptown Oakland project has most definitely succeded.
I have to give him credit for that, I have friends from San Francisco that will actually come to gritty Oakland(?!) for a concert or art show nowadays, unheard of 5-10 years ago.
The whole downtown area is radically changed, some nights you can count hundreds on the streets, insane.
I dont blame Brown so much...
I feel like yes, his decisions did hinder the A’s attempts at a stadium, but who’s to say that situation would have worked out as well as everyone claims it would have?
and then, if you bank the money on that happening, and it fails, Uptown Oakland still blows, we don’t have the Fox Theatre back in action, as well as other new amenities, people aren’t living there, and Oakland is still the absolute butt of jokes from the SF based media…
I feel like he bet on the horse with the better odds of working out… and I don’t blame him for that one bit.
I feel that if Wolff actually wanted to be in Oakland, he’d stick to all options rather than giving up like he has…
There’s tons of areas in the city that still need revival, and others that would recieve a ridiculous financial shot in the arm if a stadium was built there… are there more spots in sprawling San Jose? sure. but I dont feel like all options in Oakland are exhausted whatsoever…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Bingo.
I feel that if Wolff actually wanted to be in Oakland, he’d stick to all options rather than giving up like he has…
Where there’s no will, there’s no way. Even if he only preferred to be in San Jose, any smart businessman would want two options to look at, to enhance the value of the deal, and to have insurance in case one blows up. You have to have no interest whatsoever to make one completely impractical proposal, then walk away.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Daniel Ray Herrera was DFA'd yesterday.
Can we, Billy? Please? A lefty with a sinker AND a 65 mph screwball?
Yes
And isn’t he like 5’8"?
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
He has a great deal of pronation too
all throughout his windup. I’ve been a fan of his for a while.
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." —Stephen King
The one quote in the article that really sticks with me:
“The Bay Area has had two teams for 44 years, and it’s always been controversial,” Selig said. “I know the issues, and there are many. I’ve spoken extensively with both clubs and that’s all I’m willing to say about it.”
It’s easy to forget, but the simplest answer really is the best answer in most cases. Selig said a long time ago that the Bay area isn’t a two-team market, and the more I think about it, the more obvious it is that nothing that’s occurred since has changed his opinion.
Rovingralph mentioned earlier in this thread that Selig hates conflict, and he’s absolutely right about that. I think his whole strategy with the A’s is very simple:
1) Let my buddy who’s good at figuring out this development-type stuff figure out a way to get the A’s a new stadium locally
2) If that doesn’t work, hey, I was right about this two-team market stuff in the first place, and I can prove it to anybody that asks
I think for the first time since this whole thing started, I’m convinced that the A’s leaving the Bay area entirely is actually the most likely outcome, with a new ballpark in Oakland second, and a new ballpark in San Jose third. I just don’t think Selig has the stones to resolve the t-rights issue in an executive way, which is what will be needed given that the Giants will never negotiate.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jun 18, 2011 3:05 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe instead of lobbying Selig for a decision...
…we should be lobbying the other owners for a new commissioner.
The point about Selig always having disapproved of the bay area team is true, though. He’s been saying this for years. He’s always seemed to have a hard-on regarding the A’s, though, and I don’t know why. Did Charlie Finley piss him off, or something?
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Conjecture
The Braves left Milwaukee after the 1965 season, didn’t get the Brewers until Selig engineered the purchase of the Seattle Pilots prior to the 1970 season. During that 5-year period the A’s moved from KC to Oakland. After seeing the lackluster attendance posted by Finley’s A’s, Selig probably thought the move was a mistake. Poor attendance during the 70’s by both Bay Area teams may have reinforced this opinion.
Absolutely, I think that's part of it.
Even I think the AL (NL had no say at the time) allowing the A’s to move to Oakland was a mistake. But, his disdain seems to run deeper for the A’s specifically.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Over the years...
…there have been occasional comments from Selig that make me think that he considers the MLB champion to be the team that posts the biggest profit each year, not the team that wins the WS. Combine that with the impression that he has never really seem all that concerned with putting together a winning team, and yeah, I’m just not thinking very highly of the man.
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
The other thing I'm glad the article got right
For 13 years, the A’s have wanted to move to Santa Clara County, home to Silicon Valley, the city of San Jose and some of the wealthiest corporations in the world.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
My hopes are that the 'Moneyball' exposure will at least remind the ownership they have a TEAM.
You know, that plays baseball and stuff, not one that serves solely to bring in development money, corporate sponsorships, and revenue sharing….
I doubt it will though, sigh.
not to mention...
Remember how nuts it was in Oakland at that time? How everyone flocked the the stadium? fans that felt like the team had been sorta abandoned for years came out of the woodwork and that team raged it…
We can still have that shit happen… if this team was top of the division after July, you KNOW that that stadium would be getting 20k people on the regular…
the bay area is big enough for two teams… remember, you have the Sacramento metro area only an hour down the road anyways… and I know a few who have been season ticket holders in Stockton for years now… its only a train away…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
Mike Ashley, I dont get you...
www.cominghomenewcastle.com - More masochism, but less hopes trashed.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 18, 2011 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
can we get an early thread today?
so we can start talking crap about the gnats now? you know, like a online tailgate!
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
You're sure in a fowl mood.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
BOCK!
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
by ChickenStanley on Jun 18, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Fine. Advance to 2nd.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
woohoo!
I finally made it to second base!
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
by ChickenStanley on Jun 18, 2011 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
chicken breast, FTW!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
mmmmmmmmmmm
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
by ChickenStanley on Jun 18, 2011 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
oh, and I'm listening to my punk station
on pandora to get myself fired up for the game!
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
by ChickenStanley on Jun 18, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
thank you dan!
hey little girl
…want a cookie?
by ChickenStanley on Jun 18, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Where is this lounge?
"If you leadoff and you play every day, you’re guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."- Tim McCarver, July 8th, 2006
Territory rights
The giants are a joke Walter hass gave it to then 20 yrs ago when they were crying like baby’s for a stadium. They already control most of the bay area and now they won’t give it back…bunch of pussies!
by sumac a's on Jun 18, 2011 7:33 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Kaiser
I always thought the site of the Kaiser Convention Center would make a great ballpark. Views of the lake and the hills, and lots of parking nearby during non-work hours (Laney, lots of downtown parking lots), plus it’s near BART.
Great job with the map, too!
Man I hope howard is right
Could selig be holding out in favor of keeping the A’s in oakland? I hope. LETS GO OAK-LAND
by oaklanda'sfannotsj on Jun 18, 2011 10:15 PM PDT via mobile reply actions

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