How is Daric Barton still playing first base?
by Boone55 on Jun 16, 2011 9:02 PM PDT
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With each passing day I find myself asking more and more, "How is Daric Barton still playing first base for the A’s?" I cannot believe that any other organization would stick with a player this long that produces so little. How bad of a first basemen is Daric you ask? Let’s go to the numbers.
Stats as of 06/15/11 Rank out of 31 qualified 1st basemen
Avg- .215 30th
SLG- . 268 31st
OB%- .328 24th
OBS- .596 31st
HR- 0 31st
RBI-18 31st
Errors-8 1st(most of any 1B)
I simply do not understand the thinking behind trotting out Daric game after game at 1st base regardless is he is hitting #2 or #6 in the lineup. Barton could be an everyday player for a team with a loaded line up who needed to fill a spot at first base. But he plays for a team that ranks 28th in runs and last in home runs. For a team to have a productive offense that included Barton they would need to make up for it at a position up the middle (C, 2b, SS, CF). Sadly this is not the case as those players are almost as power challenged as Daric. Ray Fosse used to say that Daric was going to win a gold glove one day but he currently leads all first basemen in errors. He literally does not help the team in any offense or defensive category.
As for replacements the A’s have plenty of options to fill the glaring hole at. Connor Jackson is hitting a lofty .250 (By A’s standards) and has 2 less RBI then Barton in 80 less at bats. Adam Rosales would be an improvement on defense and can hit the occasional home run or double. Chris Carter has shown that he can hit for power and is continuing to do so in Sacramento. However he has been forced to learn the outfield and stay in AAA because he is "blocked" by Barton at first base. Heck Willingham has even played a grand total of 3 games at first base but at this point I would be happy to give him a shot and put Sweeney in LF.
The point of this rant in not to hate on Daric Barton. Everyone who watches the A’s can see his frustration and knows he is trying to turn it around. But at some point the A’s front office and or manager need to wake up and realize that he is the least productive offensive and defensive first basemen in all of baseball and it’s really not even close. Even last year Daric was average at best at the position. It is time for a change.
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heh.
The point of this rant in not to hate on Daric BartonSure it is.
Even last year Daric was average at best at the position.Absolutely and completely false.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
blockquote fail
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
content win
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Jun 16, 2011 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hah.
Thats really what counts.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Aside from the rest of this...
Errors =/= defense. UZR has him slightly above average in spite of the errors, because of an awesome Range score.
Which answers the question posed in the title.
How is Daric Barton still playing first base? The answer is: Slightly above average, and thanks for asking.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 16, 2011 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
uh-uh, the answer is rotten...
UZR/defensive stats be damned – Color me crazy but I’ve gotta believe any intellectually honest fan with eyes (and who follows the A’s regularly) can see Barton does little to nothing to help this team offensively which is what we desperately need from at least one of the corner IF positions. His knack/ability for delivering a timely hit and subsequently contributing to an A’s win within his crappy offensive numbers is next to nil. Got no stats to corroborate, just my 2 eyes and cents.
by A's fan in Raleigh on Jun 17, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Sell high.
I kid, I kid!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
SMELL SIMPLE SIZE, MORAN!!!!111
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Does that "Range Score"...
Include the times Barton cuts in front of Mark Ellis to grab a grounder, allowing the baserunner to get to 1st base? If it does, please give my 1B less range and more brain.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 17, 2011 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Regarding range scores and 1B
is there any way to account for the negative plays a 1B makes by ranging too far to his right for balls, rather than letting Ellis Weeks make an easy play on them? It’s not like there are a ton of them, but Barton does this. Swisher used to do it, too.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I actually wouldn't mind if they add Ellis and send down Barton,
because even though it’s a “waste” of a roster spot, it’s a way for Ellis and Weeks to cross paths for a while, which would be the real purpose. Meanwhile, let Conor Jackson handle 1B, which gives Sweeney and DDJ more consistent playing time.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, but Ellis can also play 1B
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 4:38 AM PDT up reply actions
at this point I think he's forcing himself back down
I really want to like the idea of him being sent down for Ellis, who would become the “backup second baseman,” but it just doesn’t make any sense to have a non-starter on the roster who can only play one position.
I think the reason would be exclusively for Ellis to mentor Weeks,
and for that outcome alone I’d be fine with it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd like that to happen and I know you have said it on several occasions.
I wouldn’t mind Barton getting sent down either…but at the same time he’s our best option at first base still; at least in my opinion.
I think Barton is a placeholder right now for until Carter is ready.
If you’ll notice, the outfield experiment with Carter has come to an end, and he’s seeing most if not all of his playing time at 1B. He had an 0-fer tonight, so he’ll need to crank up the hitting again before he is called up. But my prediction is we’ll see Carter at 1B for the A’s before the season’s end.
Don’t get me wrong; I’ve been rooting for Barton to turn it around. But it’s becoming more apparent as the weeks go by that he’s basically a AAAA player who had a career year last year and shows no signs of returning to such form. I think the organization is recognizing that.
by RickeyIsTheGreatest on Jun 16, 2011 9:45 PM PDT reply actions
I would rather see Carter struggle than Barton struggle
at this point, I think it is safe to say Barton is a known quantity, while Carter is still all potential. I know Barton can do the splits, however, Carter can balance the earth on his shoulders and make grown men wet their pants by just walking into a room.
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Jun 16, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Chris Carter single-handedly brought down the Holy Roman Empire
while baking the perfect chocolate chip cookie.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jun 16, 2011 10:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Taking down the Holy Roman Empire is not much of an accomplishment.
I’m not sure how you would even know the difference.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
First there was no cookie, then there was
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 4:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has photos...that's how
No other explanation. I am massively disappointed in Barton, as he had a pretty good year last year. He supposedly added some more muscle in the offseason, so I figured 15-20 homers, along with a slight improvement in his other numbers from last year were in store. Man, I was wrong.
Cliff Lee has a higher slugging percentage than Daric Barton
Cliff Pennington’s batting average is higher than Daric Barton’s slugging percentage.
The point of this rant in not to hate on Daric Barton
Barton may be the single worst offensive player in baseball so far in 2011, when you factor in his position and amount of playing time. Hate away, good sir.
Barton is not even close to the worst offensive player in baseball.
Christ, he’s not even the worst on the team. That would be Ellis, followed by Matsui, and also Kouz before he was sent down.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Maybe he's not the worst offensive PLAYER in baseball
but he is the worst offensive first baseman so far, I think. He or James Loney. His slugging percentage is fifty points behind the second worst slugging percentage among first basemen.
He’s been bad enough to justify the bitching about him, is the point.
Derrek Lee is the worst, then Justin Morneau then Barton
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Christ.
We JUST did this.
Last year, Barton was one of the very best players in baseball. He’s had a very bad 1/3 of a season.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
by nevermoor on Jun 16, 2011 11:29 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Your treatise ended too soon.
By the way, I agree with you. a very very poor 1/3 of a season =/= reason to demote, ipso facto. If sending Daric down can correct his problems, I’m all for it, while some sort of platoon of 4th/5th OF’ers fills in.
But what most of the Barton-haters want to do is to punish him for not meeting their homer-envious dreams. That’s right, what most of AN (and virtually all of sfgate and other less-enlightened sites) are really concerned about is the lack of homers. We want the bomb!
And, yes, yes, it’s true, I love it when Willingham gets ahold of one, especially with a couple of guys on, and I all of a sudden can forgive his cluelessness in LF, and it’s a so much faster way to get back into a game, and you know, POW, just a few years ago, we had a guy hit, like 39 of them! But, we are entering the post-steroid era now, and Bautista excepted, no one’s HR totals are going up. And our team plays in the O.co, and only really serious HR guys are going to hit them out on a consistent basis here, and we will need to accept that we will not be getting HR’ers on any kind of parity with the Yankees, OK?
And, have you ever watched all those big studs like Ryan Howard and Chris Carter field? With our staff, we need an infield who can turn double plays, which Barton finishes about as well as anyone I’ve ever seen- and I started watching ballgames in 1962.
By all means, send him down, if it has any chance of fixing whatever it is that is wrong. But don’t tell me you’re just tired of watching him take too many pitches. this is JacK Kust redux. It’s stupid, non-productive and annoying.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jun 17, 2011 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Really, it's not JUST the no homers on June 17
He’s only got 12 XBH, all doubles, and 61 total bases. That’s in more than just 1/3 of the season, now. He’s played in 64 of the team’s 70 games (70 being 43% of the season), so currently he’s on pace for about 148 games and MAYBE 30 XBH for the entire season. Last year he had 33 doubles alone and 48 XBH overall.
So no, it’s not just no homers. It’s the low batting average, the OBP that’s .066 lower than last year (and currently equal to 2008), and a SLG of .264. It’s also being on pace for nearly 20 errors so far.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Correct.
10 HRs in a season is very sub-standard for a 1Bman, but it’s also a lot different from 0. Just as a .450 and .350 slugging pct are very different — and are both very different from a .264 slugging pct.
It’s hard to overstate how bad a .264 slugging pct is for a 1Bman, or really for anyone. And his defense has hardly been great; it’s been “fine” overall.
The problem is when people hate on Barton for the wrong reasons (“taking too many pitches,” not hitting 20 HRs, “walking too much”), not when they hate on him for all the right reasons, such as that he has fully reverted back to the Barton of 2009 for almost half a season, and that is not a very good player at all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think you mean 2008 not 2009, and he's even worse this year than in 2008
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I do. He's been around longer than I thought!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yep. He's had a very bad near-half season
(FF is right I haven’t adjusted my fraction in too long)
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
By the way, since we don't want to forget the walks, which are still solid...
…he’s on pace for about 90 this year, which would be down 20 from 2011 but still better than 2008 or 2009.
It’s not good enough without the hits and XBH to go with it, though.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Over his career Barton has been an average 1B. He had a very good season in 2010.
He projects as a 2-3 WAR player. All the Barton-lovers keep citing his 5 WAR season in 2010 as proof that he’s an All-Star level player. It’s no more valid than calling Ryan Sweeney or Cliff Pennington 4 WAR players or Adrian Beltre a 10 WAR player.
A 2-3 WAR player having a terrible year with options is definitely a candidate to be sent down, and I’d like to see whether Carter is a future starter on a good team or not.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 4:47 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
At this point there's a very real concern that last year was an aberration
That has to be considered and at least factored in.
As it is, last year is last year and well in the past relative to what’s happening now.
And I LIKE Barton, but there’s something going on with him and it’s not just bad luck.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Was Barton Ever Tried At 3B In The Minors?
with his arm and range it would seem like a potential fit perhaps? (I’m assuming the Cards or us tried it and it didn’t work, and I think he was originally a catcher?)
Kiper+Fosse=Mute
by CorpseOfChavez on Jun 17, 2011 12:47 AM PDT reply actions
Yeah, he played some in the minors. Not much. BR says 25 games.
It didn’t really work, and the A’s are apparently unwilling to try it again, which is dumb on their part.
Not necessarily dumb.
Maybe they think switching positions will mess him up even more than he already is. If it’s not likely to work anyway, the more important thing is what sort of move will help him get his hitting back up. Seems unlikely that trying to learn 3B is what will do that.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
No, it's not a switch you'd make in the middle of a season.
But he has good range and his arm is pretty good, too. Youkilis made the switch, and Barton’s probably got a better defensive skill set than Youkilis. I mean, Youk isn’t great, but he’s bearable.
Keep in mind
Youkilis can throw down 20 HR a season, Barton has 10 as a season peak. The lack of power for the position is a tough one. He did rock the OBP last season with his changed contact lenses or what have you, but with a team that isn’t exactly rocking the RISP average, that doesn’t equate to much even if he were at that same percentage this year. I want Carter to come up because the A’s haven’t produced a “hitting” minor-league player since Swisher, but they want to groom Carter as an OF it seems. Who knows, necessity is tantamount.
"Yeah, all I could find was Triple-Sec and rootbeer...What?! You mean you had tequila the whole time?!"
And by tanta, you mean para.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Even then, I don't know what it means
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
mount = amount
tanta = same
para = beyond
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
This about the tanta mount para me as most things.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sure, but what is "necessity is paramount" supposed to mean?
by Glorious Mundy on Jun 17, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
In any test of strength or speed
His paramountcy to exceed
No man could ever hope, oh!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Maybe necessity is catamount.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Wait, what?
Are you saying Barton’s lack of power should prevent him from moving to 3B? Because…he’s the A’s first baseman right now.
by NateHST on Jun 18, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, it's been tried.
Albeit not recently. He played 18 games at 3B in Sacramento in 2007. A few more before that both in the Oakland and St Louis systems.
When asked about it, the A’s have said they are satisfied he won’t succeed there. Given how great it would be if he could work out there, you have to think he must have been pretty bad.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Barton had a 5 WAR season at 1B last year, and there isn't anybody in the A's system
who could conceivably top that in the next couple years, so no matter what happens, it’s still his job to lose. That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to sending him down for a month and letting Shane Peterson play 1B.
Carter could conceivably top that, and he projects as a better hitter than Barton
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 4:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Carter, especially at 1B has nothing like enough defense to do that
He’d have to have Bondsian offensive years.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
I don't have a lot of confidence that Carter will ever make enough contact to hit higher than .250 or .260.
I fear he’ll end up with a couple of Mark-Reynolds-type years, except with absolutely no defensive value.
That hasn't really been his track record, though
And his history suggests that even if he only hits .250, it could look like .250/.350/.550, which would be nice.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Eh, Reynolds and Carter posted similar BB% in the minors, between 10-14%.
And Carter posted a batting average of .259 in Stockton in 2008, and .258 at Sacramento last year, when his BABIP was relatively stable (his .339 batting average at Midland was aided by a .395 BABIP). If he posts that line in the majors, I’ll be ecstatic, but in the past twenty years, the only players to slug over .550 in Oakland over a full season have been Giambi (three times), McGwire (three times), Stairs (once), Jaha (once), and Cancseco (once).
The problem is that those guys, with the exception of Canseco, struck out about half as much as Carter does. At this point, I’m optimistically hoping for Carter to do something similar to Canseco’s 1990 season (.274/.371/.543 with 37 homeruns; BB% of 12.8, K% of 32.8). He was worth 5.4 WAR that year in 131 games, but FanGraphs projected his defense at 4.0 runs above average, and if Carter ever posts a positive UZR, I’ll eat a hat.
If he's hitting 30+ homers a year, nothing wrong with that at all
He’ll still walk a good deal, too.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I know batting average is a shitty stat
but Carter’s going to shoot himself in the foot with his inability to make consistent contact. He’s not exactly Bonds-ian with his walk rates, so his ability to post above average on-base percentages is going to rely heavily on his ability to put up semi-acceptable batting averages.
Also, 30 homeruns and a good walk rate (and an atrocious strikeout rate)
is exactly what Mark Reynolds has done over the past four years. He’s been above average, but barely, and he’s a bad defensive 3B, not a bad defensive OF/1B.
Well, obviously I'm hoping for less than 200 K a season from Carter, and ideally more than an AVG under .240
But if he can maintain a similar walk rate and hit in the area of .250 to .260 while slugging similarly we’d probably see an OBP of .350 or so and a SLG of over .475. That’d be pretty solid.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
If Carter posts a OBP/SLG of .360/.475, he's going to be doing the same as Mitch Moreland is so far this year.
Moreland’s UZR/150 is currently -6.2, which I doubt Carter would even be able to do at first base. But if he could, then he, like Moreland is on pace to be, would be worth something around 2.5 WAR over a full season, which is good but definitely not good enough to warrant replacing Barton with him.
Look, I’m really hoping Carter does well, but the point I was trying to make from the beginning was that there really isn’t anybody in the A’s system who could come close to Barton’s 2010 (Barton included, apparently). No matter how you look at it, Carter is a long ways from being able to outperform Barton.
Let's stop talking about the 5 WAR Barton put up last year because at this point it's looking like an aberration
Barton’s going to be fortunate to have a 2.5 WAR this year himself, for that matter.
Going forward, no – Barton included, nobody in the system is putting up a 5 WAR at first base from what it looks like. However, at THIS point Carter doesn’t have to do very much to outperform Barton offensively.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Why do people treat Barton's 2010 season like he was an MVP
He hit 273 with 10 hr and 57 RBI. I don’t care what you do on defense or how many walks you have that is not a productive season for a first basemen.
Right, right, right. Barton's having a shitty year. Really shitty.
But he was worth that much last year. It’s not like his slash was out of line from anything he did in the minors. And his defense is good. Probably better than this year, maybe not as good as last year’s. At least we know Barton has the potential to be that good, while Carter has to hit the absolute cover off the ball to be that valuable.
True
All I’m saying is we can’t keep treating him like he’s still a 5 WAR player, because he isn’t right now. I would LOVE him to even just get back to 2.5 or 3 at this point.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
You're right about that.
That’s why, unless he starts hitting immediately, I’d opt to send him to Sacramento and call up Shane Peterson for a month. But I’d do so with intentions to get Barton back on track, and not because his job as starting 1B is in jeopardy. If Barton’s hitting, the job should be his for a while.
Hmmm I guess one post three days ago with 360+ comments isn't enough to discuss Barton
Lets sum up
Barton 2010 = very good
Barton 2011 = awful
I don’t think any Barton defender would argue otherwise. What I do object to is the Barton haters using 2011 as proof that he was never really that good in 2010 anyway.
Lots of comments because lots of people have an opinion about Barton
including me.
He has a lot of moving parts to his swing. Before he even swings the bat there is a lot of upper body movement.
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Jun 17, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
He does? Huh. He rocks back for a timing mechanism, but his hands are quiet and he has little to no stride.
Vlad and Rickie Weeks have a lot of moving parts. Michael Choice has a lot of moving parts. Barton’s swing is pretty quiet.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Quiet swing
Well, the bat never makes any noise.
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jun 17, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Its not his hands Mike, I noticed it when I was watching TV the other day
Watch his upper body as he prepares to swing. There are some things that Campy taught me that really help me see what is right and wrong with a swing. His whole upper body sways, his shoulders rock…just a lot of pieces to his swing.
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Jun 17, 2011 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, it's his timing mechanism. He's somewhat balanced if not leaned a bit forward in his regular stance
He comes forward just a bit when the pitcher is ready to deliver the ball and then rocks back to get into his “ready” position to swing.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
I would not oppose sending Dale down and having him replaced with a blancmange.
He did win Wimbledon.
Angus Podgorney, what HAVE you done?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I don't understand why they moved the blancmange
off of Catcher. He was awesome at blocking the plate.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
It probably would be a good idea
To use Barton’s last option to send him to AAA, with a specific plan to work on his offense.
by OaklandSi on Jun 17, 2011 5:27 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, Foam Bat Barton
Needs to make some adjustments. I think they’re mechanical. Hit timing is off. There has to be a hitting instructor in the A’s system to help him figure it out. He swings from his heels, and when he “connects” at times, it’s a “can-a-corn” to the RF/CF. He’s strong enough to hit the ball in the seats. I think it’s a weight-shift thing. Kind of like golf. Sometimes the harder you swing, the shorter distance the ball travels.
FIX DARIC BARTON
by Colorado Fan on Jun 17, 2011 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
And by "offense" we mean, of course, "undetectable PEDs"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I have absolutely no proof or anything,
but my gut feeling tells me that Barton is an ex PED’er doing his best to adapt to the clean era and failing.
"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Barton overrated
The reason Barton keeps being thrown out there is that Beane has man-crush on him. He even told the Chronicle he laughs when people around the league say their 1B sucks (he should be crying, not laughing).
Your points about the dilemma of him hitting in a weak lineup, as opposed to, say, the Yankees, are right on. Even Rosales at first is an upgrade. Bring up Carter, or Taylor, or something. I suppose you could say best case scenario Barton becomes the career hitter similar to last year (.272/.393) which would make him valuable and partially make up for his lack of power, but I just don’t see him ever repeating that, unless he goes to a lineup like the Yanks.
I'd like to see Recker at 1B
Though he isn’t on the 40 man so it is unlikely. Carter isn’t quite ready. Barton definitely needs to be sent down to work on his swing… he is better than he has shown this year.
I could see Ellis taking his place I guess and then having a bunch of guys fill in at 1B until Ellis is traded.
RECKER?
HARDLY KNOW HER
Da greatness of Da Rooster - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
he needs to go down to AAA
Get straightened out if it can be done.
That's a tough one -- who gets Calero?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd like to see him start learning COF down in AAA if that's where he's going
It’s certainly no guarantee Willingham is re-signed, and Taylor could also blow in ST again. We’re going to need outfielders, just not now. Leave him in Sac to learn the OF, then bring him back next year with Carter at 1B.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
You want to move Barton to OF?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 17, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's see...
in the last month, the options for Barton were:
1: Leave the status quo, and he will work his way out of the doldrums( The Phantom Tollbooth reference).
2: Move him to backup catcher( well, didn’t he play there sometime in his past?)
3: Move him to 3rd base( hell, anyone with his reflexes can play there)
4: Send him to Sac to learn Corner OF( but, then we still won’t have a power-hitter in LF).
I’m not saying any are necessarily bad moves, but why move him at all? Just send him down to figure out his game.
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
We need starting pitching..I'm just saying'...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There you go!
Then he doesn’t have to hit!
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Rather, his .264 slugging will be a bonus in NL parks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and he would only have to take the field every 5th day
i've never tried to rank them to be honest. i guess i like beer.- stm72
Can we get Alec Bings to play first base?
He’d catch any overthrows . . .
"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto
by EddieVegas_NRAF on Jun 17, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
1. He’s not slow.
2. He has a decent arm.
3. We’re going to need OFers next year.
4. If Carter IS going to play a position (not saying he’s going to), 1B seems to be it.
5. If Carter does play 1B, that opens up the “aging vet” spot for us to sign a DH.
I see no reason why it’s not viable.
"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli
by cuppingmaster on Jun 17, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
But apparently Carter is better defensively in LF than he is at 1B
At least, that’s what the radio personalities were saying when he was switched to LF last year. And Barton is very good defensively at 1B. If you are going to ultimately have both players on a team, it makes sense to play to their defensive strengths. It doesn’t really make sense to put Barton in a position he has never played before when Carter can do it just as badly.
My understanding is that
1. Carter is a lot more comfortable at 1B than he is in LF
2. He is godawful in LF
But I think his true position is DH, personally.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree, he is a future DH.
What I was trying to say, put another way, is that, defensively, we know this:
Carter:
1B – Bad
LF – Bad
Barton
1B – doesn’t suck
LF – unknown
Barton ranges from best in MLB defensively at 1B (2010) to league average (2011). I don’t understand why we should take the defensive gamble with Barton in LF. We know Carter is a defensive liability wherever we put him. Why should we have to worry about Barton’s defense as well? He handles 1B just fine and, most likely, will not be a stud defender in LF.
I don't think he fields well enough to be a DH.
"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I mean... could he even get out of the way of a ball sharply hit towards the ondeck circle?
"I heard the reason Geren never played Powell was so he could have someone around to fetch him a cushion."- UrgentMirth
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Barton's
still playing 1st base because AN likes him. He will be here as long as Jack Kust.
by sf drift king on Jun 17, 2011 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
And so far
The Kust haters (myself included) would be touting his monstrous .319 slugging percentage as proof that Beane saw something the rest of us didn’t and expected continuing decline.
But allow me to give the expected response: “SMALL SAMPLE SIZE, NOOB!!!”
Yeah, yeah, I know… But so far, so bad for Kust.
Da greatness of Da Rooster - RLangford
"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball
Thank God for small favors.
He barely has more XBH than Daric Barton does. It’s a minor miracle he hasn’t been DFAed yet. Two home runs in 223 PAs aren’t going to get it done for a DH.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Slightly OT
Is there any new word on Doolittle? I remember the A’s protecting him by putting him on the 40 man roster at the beginning of the year. Since then, he has been on the DL and has yet to see playing time. Any news on him getting close to coming back?
In the pre-season they were saying he was cleared for
baseball activities and should be in the Sacramento lineup. But that hasn’t happened.
Someone needs to light up the Su-Slu signal.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Why is Barton still on the team?
1) Billy doesn’t want to send him down because he feels there is no viable replacement.
2) Barton can’t be trade because no team wants him as their AAA first baseman.
3) Billy thinks he will turn it around.
There is a replacement called Carter, if there is a trade throw Barton in the package for something, and he is NOT going to turn it around.
We have seen the best Barton will ever be. Above average defense and a player who can take walks like a lead off hitter. The A’s need power at the corners. Less defense more Power. Carter can play some defense and gives more power potential, he need major league experience at a position that he has played more than a few weeks (last year).
When the player who is your #2 says he is more comfortable at #6 that’s a huge clue. 1b and 3b should not be batting in the bottom of the line up.
If Carter isn’t the right player, and no trade for a real power threat at 1b or 3rd, I’d rather see Ellis play 1b and bat under .200 just to stay on the roster and mentor Weeks.
That brings me back to the question; How is Barton still playing 1st?
More like, why is he still on the team? His defense doesn’t help when the A’s can’t score runs. One big bat at first base would change the A’s line up tremendously.
Maybe Seattle will give us Jack Cust to play first base.
Auto correct sucks and it's hard to proof read when your driving. Work is great but I'd rather be Gelande Quaffing.
by SeligNeukomSabeanSuckBalls on Jun 17, 2011 5:32 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
If Barton had trade value, it was at the end of 2010
Then, he was an excellent player likely underappreciated by many GMs. Right now, he probably has virtually no trade value, as he appears to be “A 1Bman with no HRs and a lot of errors!!!111” and is in fact currently a rather poor player.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't see an upgrade on the current roster
I really don’t think that Jackson is much of, if any improvement over Barton. He did well at the start of the season – but that was usually when he was in the lineup for specific matchups and it wasn’t very often. As he’s played more, he has not stayed nearly as good and his defense is not as good as Barton. I also don’t think Rosales would be much of an upgrade – I think he’s pretty overrated here generally – and I don’t think he’s played much 1B. So, any move would not be necessarily for an improvement from 1B in the lineup but just because Barton isn’t doing as well as we want him to.
I know that Barton is having a rough year. If the thought is to send him down to AAA because we think that it will actually help him turn things around, then that’s fine and I’m ok with that. But, otherwise, taking him out of the big league lineup consistently, in my opinion, doesn’t improve the offense much but makes the infield defense worse. Sure, he has errors, but the plays he makes digging balls out and stretching to ensure double plays have been huge, and I don’t see those coming from Jackson or Rosales. I’m willing to take a defensive hit for big improvement on offense, including home runs, but not for the same or a very slight improvement which is the best we would get from Jackson or Rosales.
Until Carter is ready to come up to the majors, which may be soon, then I don’t think sending Barton to AAA improves the current team. So, if that is the purpose that people want to send him down or bench him, I just don’ think it accomplishes that.
I tend to agree with this
We need a better 1B than the garbage we’ve put out there, but if I had to bet on 1 player to be better than Barton, well, I’d probably rather bet on Barton than Rosales, Ellis, CoJack. CoJack is the only one that is even a remote possibility, and his ability to rotate to OF means that we’re essentially demoting Barton to get more of Ryan Sweeney. I still like Barton’s upside more than Sweeney.
oops, forgot my main point
Melvin clearly thinks Rosales role is to be the super utility guy, first backup off the bench. He seemingly is going to be content rolling the dice with the same players nearly every day, with Rosy being the main sub. Putting him at 1B makes that thought fail.
I understand why most people want to send hiim down. What I don't understand are some of the silly suggestions for a replacement.
Mark Ellis? I’d rather the A’s show that he can still play for a few days, package him with maybe Cardenas, and find him a new home. Failing that I’d rather the A’s explain the facts of life to him, and get him to retire, than have him at 1B. Why?
You need quicker reaction times at the corners than at 2B.
*His reactions are fine for 2B, but pr0obably he won’t look too hot at a corner.
*He’s an even *worse hitter this year than Barton (see below).
*It would be nice to get Weeks some mentoring, sure, but it’s not utterly necessary.
Now, maybe at some point Carter is ready, then maybe I’d consider it but what I would do if I ran this zoo, is the following:
Make Barton a lefty-only platoon player until there is a full-time replacement for him. His line against LH doesn’t look bad at all: .250/.360OBP/.347SLG/.708OPS for a wOBA of .324. He has had a career-long reverse split and it’s way more extreme this year. Against RH, his line is *unbelievably bad: .194/.311/.225/.536 for a wOBA of .252
*(Compare this to Mark Ellis, who has virtually no split, so this is his season so far: .211/.245OBP/.287SLG/.532OPS for a wOBA of .245.). He’s just as bad (albeit with more “slugging”, but less on-base) as Barton’s line against RH’ers. And you want to use him just so he can mentor Weeks?
*I’d use one of Sweeney/DeJesus/Willingham (whoever works out passably) as 1B against RH starters, and have the other two in the outfield.
*Against LH starters, I’d start Barton at 1B, bench both Sweeney and DeJesus, and have Jackson as one COF and Willingham as the other. (Oh, and I’d never ever start Powell as C against a LH starter.)
The rest of the team doesn’t have real huge splits but Barton, DeJesus, Sweeney and Powell do.
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jun 18, 2011 2:23 PM PDT reply actions
Formatting fail, which is why all the bold type. D'oh! [shakes fist at forgotten preview button]
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Jun 18, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I answered "yes"
but I mean temporarily. I still haven’t given up on Barton, though he sure is starting to make me wonder. If he doesn’t turn a corner soon, his career is going to look a lot like Ryan Sweeney’s will.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Hey, they're totally different players.
Barton is a 1Bman with no HRs, wheras Sweeney is a COFer with no HRs.
Aw, crap.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Keep Elllis, Kouz, and Barton in Sacramento
I’d Rather see the young talent come up send dose bums down.
Hello? You play to win the game!
"the young talent"
The guys in AAA we’re talking about bringing up aren’t that much younger than Barton. Daric Barton is 25. Taylor, Donaldson and Sogard are also 25. Carter and Doolittle are 24. Cardenas and Peterson are 23. Miller, Recker, Carson, and Timmons are all older than Barton.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Barton
Earlier this year while in section 117 with MLB scouts one of them remarked that if Barton is up with runners in scoring position and with 3 and 2 count and gets a drivable ball slightly out of the zone he will very proudly flip his bat and walk to first. Says it all for me
It seems to say that scouts believe
there are a lot of “drivable balls slightly out of the zone”. If you’re Vlad Guerrero, maybe.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Have to disagree. With men in scoring position a real MLB hitter needs to be swinging if he gets a ball he can drive. They just don’t come around that often.
The only times I picture being able to drive a pitch that's out of the zone might be on one a little high
Doubt it’s happening on one outside or inside, but possibly a little low.
The question is about whether or not it’s actually a pitch that’s good to drive.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
The point is, a pitch out of the strike zone is rarely a pitch you can drive
Maybe slap to left for a single, but better to load the bases since you’d hope the next hitter can do at least that with the same pitch if necessary.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What does that even mean?
If it’s out of the zone, slightly or not, shouldn’t you take that pitch and almost assuredly reach first base?
It’s more about what he does or doesn’t do with pitches in the zone.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Says it all for me, too.
Great approach.
by danmerqury on Jun 19, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No Nico. You miss the point. For any given hitter, ther will be plenty of balls slightly out of the zone which he can hit with authority much more often than he could a hard slider at his knees on the inside or outside corner. If there is no one in scoring position, or if you are Eli Whiteside, you always take. If there are runners in scoring position and you are a legitimate hitter, you swing. I am not saying you swing at all balls slightly out of the zone, you swing at that small percentage of them that you can drive. The guy’s point was that Barton NEVER does. You seem to be under the misimpression that if a ball is slightly out of the strike zone it is ipso facto not capable of being driven.
I'm not missing the point, I'm just calling out the scouts on their misguided thinking
Here’s what I think: Barton needs, with two strikes, to expand his view of the strike zone to be “K-zone plus an inch on the outside corner.” Why? Because umpires reliably stretch that outside corner an inch or so from the electronic one and it’s a fool who fails to adjust. Especially with a count of 0-2, 1-2, or 2-2, since if you get the call you haven’t succeeded on anything yet anyway.
However, anything judged to be more than literally an inch off the corner and Barton should take. Umpires usually get that call right, the pitch is a terrible one to drive, and you take your chances that the ump is seeing it the way you are.
That’s what I want Barton to do. What scouts seem to want him to do is to pretend these “off the outside corner” pitches are “good pitches to drive” and to turn balls into outs. No thank you.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Your fingers were an inch away from the reply button
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Also, when he clicked reply
the cursor began in the top box and he had to tab to get to the second box.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
No
Different hitters have different hot and cold zones, so you can’t just assume it’s one type of pitch. Unless the scout is saying “Look, when the pitcher throws this pitch in this spot he should be doing this with it even if it’s slightly out of the zone,” then it’s a lot of nothing and is basically just a way to say “Barton sucks” without going into why.
Go into Gameday for yesterday’s game, check the boxscore, and click on Barton. You should see various hot/cold zones for him this season:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_06_18_sfnmlb_oakmlb_1&mode=gameday
In it it seems to suggest that, so far this year, he’s hottest in the zone when the pitches are low/middle and low/in, followed by middle/away and down the middle.
As for the edges, he’s good in the low/away combo but that’s only in 10 ABs while it also charts up/in as good, though his AVG there is .136 so I’m not sure why it’s red. Low/in and up/away edges are both poor, but the number of ABs is also small.
That still doesn’t really identify what kinds of pitches he’s getting there, let alone on a 3-2 pitch w/ RISP.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
that was intended to be an example. The point: If a pitch is slightly out of the strike zone but in a spot where the hitter can drive it (wherever that may be) AND THERE ARE MEN INSCORING POSITON, SWING!!!
You may really be on to something in concluding Barton can’t drive a hanging curve an inch off the plate. Please share your analysis with Forst, Barton can be sent down and this topic can be removed from discussion
You really need to figure out the reply function
As for the rest, LOL.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
And the LOL is also more to do with your Forst suggestion
As if they don’t already know any of this. I doubt anyone there is telling him to swing at more pitches out of the zone. If anything, Nico’s suggestion is spot on.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Ridiculous.
Barton has been batting 2nd most of the year. If he walks and the 3-4-5 hitters fail to drive runners home, what rational mind would blame that on Barton? And even if he’s batting 6th, if he gets on base, it’s not his fault that the guys batting behind him aren’t coming through Why is that so hard to grasp?.
Interesting to hear Landon say in post game interview with Vince “Caffoneo” that the pitch he hit was “out of the zone”.
Sorry about the lol. As far as telling them something they don’t already know, if that is standard, bring down the site.
I semi agree with what you are saying
But lets be honest here: Landon Powell isn’t the greatest guy to aspire to.
HE WAS TODAY!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Have you ever seen the forest, or always just the trees? Maybe if Nico tells you that you are in the forest?
All the best
Check out the "reply" button
It’s right next to the “don’t troll” one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OK, I am able to admit that I am technologically illiterate. I am channeling Alvin Dark.
Is it really controversial to assert that Barton is too focused on getting a walk when there are men in scoring position? Or that there are times when it is appropriate to expand the zone? Was I really that inelegant? (Photo man, this is not something you can look up. Nico, feel you went troll on me a little a little early— if I were to review your AN body of work, hope I wouldn’t find an affinity for sycophants.)
This Sean is one smart guy.
Look
Suggesting Barton stretch the zone a little in certain situations, especially with two strikes to try to cover about an inch off the outside where it’s often called a strike – that’s a little different than some scout saying “Barton just looks for the walk on borderline 3-2 pitches w/RISP instead of driving the pitch.” There’s nothing to it that talks about how he’s pitched in those specific situations and it’s just the scout’s way of saying Barton may rather walk than get a hit.
Whether that’s true or not, of course there are some situations where he might be better off swinging, and it’s entirely possible the scout’s own opinion should be ignored. It’s not as simple as what the scout evidently said.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Calling Flashfire "Photo man"
as a user who had zero comments before today did not help to convince me that you aren’t a troll.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This is why we need electronic Tuesday game threads.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If you did take the trouble to review Nico's work here on AN,
you definitely would not find an affinity for sycophants. He goes out of his way to appoint moderators who actively disagree with him on many issues, in large part because he feels such checks and balances are important.
There’s really only one mod who is a Nico sycophant, and that’s iglew.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
{looks up sycophant}
YEAH!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Sychophant, iglew,
not psychophant, sickophant, or elephant. All three of which you are, but that’s beside the point.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, sir! Of course, sir!
[licks boots]
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I echo SeanR's sentiment of semi-agreeance
in that the point of standing in the batter’s box is to do damage to the baseball, not to avoid swinging at it as much as possible. If you can “expand the zone” and get a hit instead of waiting for a walk, then go get a hit.
I actually saw Barton do this to get a go-ahead hit earlier this year, FWIW, because it was a specific close and late situation where a walk did the A’s no good (2 outs and runners on second and third, IIRC.) I wouldn’t want Barton to toss his approach out the window to get those kind of hits, but a hit is always better than a walk.
Alvin Dark sure is arguing it inelegantly, though.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Sure, a hit is better than a walk.
But a walk is better than an out. You’re basically setting him up for failure here. If he walks, you criticize. If he swings at a pitch out of the zone and makes an out, you’ll criticize.
And if he gets a single, HE DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH POWER!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And if he hits home runs,
he’s OVERVALUED, so we should trade him!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Sell high! sell high!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
AND HE'S CLEARLY ON STEROIDS!!!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I thought someone said he looks like he's coming off steroids.
Apparently he’s afraid of getting caught. Which is why he took a few years to quit, and bulked up AFTER getting off the steroids. Gotta divert any suspicion, after all.
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