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Around SBN: An Indy 500 Rookie's Impressions

Dry-rot up Above

At AN, we all seem to have something in common, and if it is anything, it’s a loathing of Bob Geren. It has been well documented on the blog the incompetencies of Geren, and that is past due to move on. Further, it is not just us, former A’s, players and coaches, have come out recently about how much distaste they had for Geren. So we’ve had everyone from the fans, to the players, to those who are no longer in the organization calling Geren out. Yet, Geren is protected on high by Beane and Wolff.

This led me to ponder; has our management tree of knowledge grown old and defunct? Are they coasting on their past reputation, no longer the top of the line front office that they were portrayed in Moneyball, and now living off their image?

Should Billy Beane be replaced?

Billy-beane-baseball-card_medium

We all can admit that the front office record since the ‘golden years’ has been pretty dismal. Despite a flash of brilliance in ’06, the team has not played very well on the field. The pitching has fluctuated between good and great, but the offense has been bad to worse, with a distinctly downward trend. Every patch the FO has made to fix it seems to make it spiral deeper into the abyss. For an organization that was touted for its offensive philosophy, it seemingly has become something akin to the Giants when it comes to developing hitters from within (i.e. we can’t, therefore, we get them from elsewhere). On the team right now, we have two hitters in our starting lineup that are ‘home grown’: Kurt Suzuk and Cliff Pennington, and neither is a good offensive player.

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The roots of the A’s offensive woes have to come from somewhere, with the most likely culprits being the A’s poor drafting record, (again, from a team that was touted as being draft geniuses), the organizational hitting philosophy, which has not translated into actual hitting, and the front office’s approach to player acquisitions, which has long centered around unhealthy players with limited power capacity but decent (at least minor league) on base skills. Unfortunately, that has resulted in a lot of trips to the DL, and a lineup full of guys who watch strike 1 and 2 down the middle, and swing at strike three out of desperation.

 

Star-divide

 

Truth be told, we do not know how much of the organization is run by Beane, or run by Forst. We all remember the rumblings the past few years that Beane was more interested in Soccer than Baseball, and that Forst was the one who was really running the show.

From a 2007 article on the subject:

For a man paid to unravel the mysteries of baseball, Oakland Athletics general manager Billy Beane spends a lot of time thinking about soccer for free.

There are as many as five – count 'em, five – hours each day spent listening to soccer podcasts ("on long walks with my dog and during my commute"). There are TiVo'd Premiership games and the heartache that comes with a devotion to Tottenham Hotspur.

Then there is the nightly tug-of-war with his wife.

"She wants to watch the baseball highlights on (ESPN's) SportsCenter. I want to watch Fox Soccer Channel," Beane said.

It might very well be a time for a major shakeup of the A’s front office, which has gone without such impetus on them, (instead harvesting faith from the remaining A’s loyal), and a new generation of brains brought in to man the ship. But, I fear that this will never happen, nor will the threat of it happen, due to Beane, his small ownership stake, and Wolff and Fischer’s complete reliance on Beane and Crowley.

The A's are dealing with both sides of the nepotistic coin, with seemingly opposite reactions, but similarly disappointing results.

Bob_geren_autograph_medium

On one hand, the A's have a Manager, Bob Geren, who, despite his clear incompetence, got the job and keeps it because he is a good friend of the General Manager, Billy Beane.

On the other side of the coin, the A's have a managing partner/owner, Lew Wolff, who got the team in great part because he was introduce to it by Bud Selig, the commissioner of Baseball, because he was a former fraternity brother of Selig.

But unlike Geren, who gets to keep his job because of incompetence, Wolff's dream, a stadium for the A's in San Jose, quite likely because Selig views it as a conflict of interest to show Wolff any sign of favoritism, and thus does nothing, in favor of the status quo (which suits the Giants just fine, and really no one else, just fine).

In other words, nepotism is hurting the A's in two distinct and different ways. It keeps incompetence around, and blocks the organizations best opportunity for getting better.

We have seen the organization’s medical team shook up several times in recent years. We have seen hitting coaches fired year after year for failing to turn our offense around. We’ve had other coaching staff members leave us, free agents scorn us, and prospects turn superstars once they’re out from our clutches. Aside from the stadium, the common thread is the front office. That’s where we should look, and that’s where we need to put the pressure on.

So yes, I say it. Produce or get out, Billy. If you won’t lead this team to victory, then we need someone who will. And please, turn off the Quakes game, there’s baseball to be played.

Poll
Should the front office be rebuilt if they are not able to turn it around this year?
Yes
375 votes
No
249 votes

624 votes | Poll has closed

Athletics Fan Confidence Poll

Last tallied on 05/25.

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Comments

Display:

As much as it pains me to acknowledge him....

we need an owner with the passion to win, like George Steinbrenner.

by Tutu-late on May 28, 2011 7:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Every team needs an owner like that.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Every team needs a market like Green Bay.

I’m not kidding. All teams should be owned and operated like that.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

zombie Steinbrenner ?

will he hire zombie Billy Martin, and coach zombie Babe Ruth?

by MobiusKlein on May 28, 2011 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Three yesses, no negatives.

I’d watch that circus.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

In a tragic play at the plate

Zombie Babe Ruth tries to eat AJ Perzinkie’s Brain, and expires due to hunger, and is called out.

by MobiusKlein on May 28, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well written article. I have felt, for some time now, the front office needs a shakeup as much as the manager position.

When you've played this game for 10 years and gone to bat 7,000 times and gotten 2,000 hits do you know what that really means? It means you've gone 0-5,000. -Reginald Martinez "Reggie" Jackson

by Geronimo Berroa on May 28, 2011 7:14 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Compelling Comments

I think that a lot of what we perceive as A’s fans is guilt by association. To start with Geren, he is one of those career devotees to an organization who worked his way up as a manager. He was given a pass for several years in Oakland because of the multitude of injuries which hampered his ability to field the best team available. While managing Sacramento, he still was in a constant flux of seeing players come in from lower levels but he also had access to the best prospects which he had to assess and develop over time. It is reasonable to see that his communication with Beane was at a higher level due to their friendship, but that communication was something that Beane could trust, juxtaposed with Beane’s relationship with Macha who understood player productivity and brought a level of intelligence and independent thinking that didn’t mesh with Beane at times. Macha, a left brain predominant thinker took his engineering skills to baseball and woulnd’t cloud his decisions with emotion. Geren isn’t overly emotional but he comes across as both humble and aloof at the same time. His lack of response to Street’s comment was actually commendable. His lack of communication with Balfour appeared unacceptable.

All of this is to say that while I yelled, “FIre Geren Now” after the first game, he will be our manager until October. I doubt it will be any further.

Beane is guilty of his own mystique, which if her were to asked about it would probably laugh. “In Billy we trust” has gotten us to the point where his moves are scrutinized not so much for his forward thinking but currently for the sting of losing three incredible outfielders who represented the next generation of Oakland position players who have made an impact with their skills. The often injured Nelson Cruz, Carlos Gonzalez and Andre Ethier sting us every time we hear their names mentioned on ESPN or any other outlet. It’s easy to say that maybe we shouldn’t have traded for Bradley…but the point is Beane gave up the very chips that his eye for talent was able to bring into this organization or draft. I blame Beane for a lack of patience which he has given to pitcher development but was lost after Tejada made his way through the organization.

The perspective of drafting college talent has waxed and waned over the last several years but bringing Grady Fuson back was a good move. Let’s just hope we have enough talented people to help Eric Kuboda continue to make good selections.

I like Lew Wolf. Many here don’t. But his "guilt by association " which was alluded to in Monte Poole’s article this morning is interesting. Does Bud Selig hesitate in not acting in favoring a ballpark in San Jose b/c he doesn’t want to be accused of favoritism with Wolf? I think that’s more public perception than anything else. What’s wrong is the Giants " territorial claim" on a space of land 45 miles away from where they play and the lack of conviction on Selig’s part to end this mess. The A’s in San Jose makes business and MLB sense by increasing the opportunity for more baseball revenue…for every team! The reactionary stance by the Giants is myopic and selfish at best, but that is not surprising. I argued recently with Glenn Dickey about this and he still had to point out that the Bay area is the smallest two market area in the country. Rubbish, Bay Area fans will follow success and they have proved that over the past three decades when the population wasn’t as robust as it is now.

I frankly don’t think anything drastic will happen via trades this year, Geren getting fired or Wolf getting the stadium we all covet. Status quo continues this saturday morning.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on May 28, 2011 7:59 AM PDT reply actions  

CarGo is really the only one that bothered me....

Cruz was an injury riddle and Bradley them as close to the World Series as they’ve been in 20 years. I would make that trade again.

Speaking of which, is Ken Macha the only guy to ever successfully manage Milton Bradley?

by AsFan72 on May 28, 2011 8:33 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'll never forget Macha tackling Bradley during one of his meltdowns

Bradley was also buffered by the Big Hurt and found a friend in Swisher. Too bad he needed so much to be able to play. He took " high maintenance" to a new level.

What I failed to convey was that not only did our big 3 stabilize the staff but our position players offered stability in the lineup and on field every day. The 3 aforementioned players would have given us an outfield that and pop in the lineup for realistically 5-6 years and taken pressure off of the pitching staff due to more offensive pop given our superior infield defense ( up to this year).

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on May 28, 2011 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

If I recall correctly,

Macha had extensive training in a particular martial art skill. Bradley probably wasn’t real keen on getting his ass kicked on tv by an old man.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Karate. Or Kung Fu.

Something awesome no doubt.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought it was Tae Kwon Do

Not much wrasslin’ in that flavor of MA

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tae Kwon Do, I believe?

Bathroom doors learned to fear Ken Macha.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Was that Blanton?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

i'm not bothered by the bradley deal but

the A’s were closer…2001 i think. would have had the yankees in 5 and gone to the WS if it hadn’t been for that bonehead jere,y giambi not sliding and being tagged out by posada

by heartstopper on May 29, 2011 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Failure to replace Geren is Beane's Biggest Mistake

Everything else until now has two side of a legitimate question. Moving Either for Bradley. Moving Haren for prospects. No one could have predicted the CarGo turned as one sided as it did.

But leaving Geren there is an afront to the other players the organization and all of us fans who remained loyal even when preseason moves eliminated any real hope for a successful season.

This team can compete in this division this year. The younger players can develop confidence and more consistancy. We have enough talent to get it done.

We need a manager and a coaching staff that will get the players to believe in themselves and become better players.

There is no excuse for this team coming out of spring training and performing as poorly defensively as these guys have. They have not gotten better they have gotten worse under Geren.

If Beane does not do the right thing by the players, the organization and the fans, he should fire himself and go to work for the Quakes.

He owes it to the players and to us who pay his salary.

Thomas Walker

by Thomas Walker on May 28, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Players win games not managers

If a manager is being perceived as a deterrent to the players performance, he should be replaced. The last, most famous time a manager came on during the season was when LaRussa replaced, was it Boros or Jackie Moore? But two thoughts come to mind.

Who replaces Geren with the credentials or efficiency of LaRussa, if he is to be used as our standard bearer? Is there anyone out there? I am doubtful but truly I can’t answer that. Secondly, is there any precedence for Beane making such a move during the season? I can’t think of any. Beane has been patient through the 1st two months historically, before making a bold move by trade.
I can see Geren taking another position within the organization vs. being released by the the Athletics organization altogether. This is where Beane’s friendship intervenes, and in a good way as I think Geren has value, just not as a big league manager. He is a good case of the “Peter principle” if there ever was one.
I could see Beane bringing back Don Wakamatsu, who actually had a positive reputation before Chone Figgins and the other Seattle malcontents stopped playing for him. Beyond that, Beane values cohesiveness in the clubhouse, Geren gives Beane that but that doesn’t equate to the same degree with his players.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on May 28, 2011 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem with replacing Beane (and Geren, to a lesser extent)

Is that the replacements might be worse. Be it far in the past or not, we know Beane has a track record of making good moves. I’m not sure if the apparent candidates to replace him could be better (or, if it’s true that Forst runs the team, we’d want him running the team considering the moves he’s made.)

To paraphrase DFA, “we need to draft better.” More talent = more winning.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 28, 2011 9:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Plus, there should be more of a focus on teaching in the lower levels of the minors.

Too often, prospects are thrown in to sink or swim, without a heavy emphasis on eliminating flaws and accentuating strengths.

Coaching staffs in the minors should be larger than major league staffs, not smaller.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

They might "pick a position and stick with it" more often, too.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 28, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agree with your thoughts on Beane, disagree on Geren

Replacing a competent GM with Billy’s track record isn’t easy. Replacing a finger sniffing hack like Geren isn’t hard.

MexicAN AmericAN VegAN

by Mike Garza on May 28, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder how things would look now

If the A’s had “traded” Beane to the Red Sox for Youkilis and had DePodedesta take over a’s GM back in 2002.

by throwmonkey on May 28, 2011 9:14 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

...we'd have traded Youk in 2004 for prospects.

I'm beginning to believe that Bud Selig wants to die of old age before he has to make a decision regarding Oakland vs San Jose.

by UncleLeo on May 28, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Excellent point

I think you’re probably right

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 28, 2011 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think there are a couple of things the A's could do without overhauling the front office...

Draft better. Why not hire more people to draft better? I’m looking at the A’s first round draft picks since 2000… it’s pathetic. You can buy a better staff for a few million dollars and get better hitters with more bang for the buck than trying to sign a bunch of old bums every year. $10 million on over slot players is better than signing bums for $10 million every season.

Interesting note: This link strangely has the A’s drafting Matt den Dekker in 2011. http://espn.go.com/mlb/draft/history/_/team/oak

by Brett Narloch on May 28, 2011 9:26 AM PDT reply actions  

So many people say "draft better"...

…but one would think that they feel they drafted as well as they could, and yet they still fail. To me, this strengthens the argument for a revamped front office, actually. If they could draft well they would, but apparently they can’t. If they can’t draft well, what good are they?

I'm beginning to believe that Bud Selig wants to die of old age before he has to make a decision regarding Oakland vs San Jose.

by UncleLeo on May 28, 2011 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's why I suggested a new staff for the draft...

I’m not sure how they currently structure the front office for scouting/drafting, but it would seem that they could hire some people from organizations that do draft well and give them a ton of responsibility.

by Brett Narloch on May 28, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gotta have good information from good scouts and weigh it properly too.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe that's who they are assumed to pick?

I hope not. His numbers don’t really translate into a number 18 pick

by Furyan on May 28, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I take that back

Every team’s 2011 picks on there are listed as den Dekker.

by Furyan on May 28, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a fair question.
…has our management tree of knowledge grown old and defunct? Are they coasting on their past reputation, no longer the top of the line front office that they were portrayed in Moneyball, and now coasting on that reputation?

At some point, it becomes, “What have you done for me lately?”.

I'm beginning to believe that Bud Selig wants to die of old age before he has to make a decision regarding Oakland vs San Jose.

by UncleLeo on May 28, 2011 9:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Wasn't it just a few months ago that we were pretty happy with the off season moves?

we just got some value back for an out of option reliever.

If we expect A’s to make some move to bring in a superstar type, they tried, with Holiday, didn’t work out. And before that, what other earth shattering move has the front office made that they have not followed-up recently?

by asfansince1989 on May 28, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

The HollIday aquisition was destined to "not work out" though.

He was a superstar rental. We need a superstar fixture. Or two.

"As the tag line of my favorite dirty joke would have it: 'Keep your hat on. We could wind up miles from here.'" ~Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus

by Elvez on May 28, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hate to say but

If getting rid of Geren means getting rid of Beane, I’m all for it….depending of course who the replacement GM is. Ed Wade isn’t an upgrade, yknow?

by PL78 on May 28, 2011 9:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Not going to happen

  Wolff sounds like the old grampa that is lost without his buddies. From all that has been said it sounds like Beane is playing out the season with Geren. No playoffs then Geren will be promoted up and Beane saves face. Wolff has about 0 input on the team and just does what billy tells him to do.

by Arcman on May 28, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I find all of this a bit incredulous.

Beane will fire Geren. There’s little doubt that Geren has recieved a solid vote of “no confidence” from the majority of the team, which has been communicated to management in no uncertain terms. I rather think they are weighing options at the moment and figuring out what’s the optimal time to replace him. I have little doubt that his fate is sealed.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he moves at all, this. It'll be a promotion.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

This

He’ll get a “Special Assistant to the GM” position or something that requires he not be seen or heard.

by vertig0 on May 28, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with this.

Unfortunately, that doesn’t do much for us this season.

I'm beginning to believe that Bud Selig wants to die of old age before he has to make a decision regarding Oakland vs San Jose.

by UncleLeo on May 28, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

question about the draft

how much is actually knowable. I mean, if you hit with a prospect like pujols or mauer and morneau, jeter clemens etc then you are set for a while.

But if you don’t hit with a player like blanton, swisher, what do you have, nothin

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 28, 2011 9:36 AM PDT reply actions  

More like

  Quick fix or wait and hope. The A’s did do many quick fix drafting in the last few years which means you draft major ready players but not impact players. A young high school hitter are the ones that are the impact bats but are higher risk.

by Arcman on May 28, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Playing the what-if game

What if Justin Smoak signed with the A’s in 2005 instead for going to college? Would that have changed the A’s fortunes much?

by vertig0 on May 28, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

right, its not just the $50,000 OMG BILLY GIT ER DONE

My question is is there some talent evaluation that can do better than the string of Pennington/brown/doolittle/simmons marginal talent?

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 28, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think your expectations are too high given where the A's typically draft

Pennington’s an above-average big league shortstop. Swisher is a huge success, both on the field and in what he netted in trade. Green, Choice and Weeks all have star potential to some degree. It’s too much to ask a team to regularly grab stars when they hardly ever draft in the top 10. I’d say we’ve done pretty well in terms of having relatively few outright busts.

by Glorious Mundy on May 28, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I get that

I know the 2003-2007 picks were later in the first round, but is there a balance of conservative to risky that can be used? I was thinking Choice was a high risk high reward guy, like mixing in people like that

I don’t have the answers.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 28, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

tampa and KC

  Are examples of team with many low draft picks while the Yanks and redsox are teams that can outspend on draft picks. Problems with the A’s draft over the years is where they pick and money problems. They have done a good job.

by Arcman on May 28, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Doolittle was on the fast track to being a pretty damn good player before his knee troubles.

And Pennington isn’t the problem at the ML level.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

having 3 WAR players like Pennington is great

but its why the A’s are a .500 team

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 28, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Except that it is not 3 all around

it is skewed by nature. Your top draft picks should be high WAR. Your team would be composed of several high war, several medium, and several low. But its the high war guys that carry the team.

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

by Zonis on May 28, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Average = good.

Because the talent distribution is not a normal bell curve.

by danmerqury on May 28, 2011 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd rather have 3 WAR than 0

but the point is Penny is an adequate ML SS Doolittle is nothing, simmons is nothing, buck is nothing etc.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 28, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The A's great teams of the 70's and 80's were

all characterized by the following: superior pitching, defense, power and speed. They rarely had anyone hit for a high average, but they were always among the league leaders in homers, ERA, and stolen bases. They were also fundamentally sound.

I think Beane’s Moneyball philosophy is ossified and time has passed us by. Time to return to what works in Oakland.

by Reggiejacksoneout on May 28, 2011 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

We can't really return to any era

including the “moneyball” era

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 28, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

says you

I have a time machine

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

by Zonis on May 28, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually Beane's early teams were characterized pretty much the same way (with less reliance on speed)

I mean, depsite the new, cool ways to locate and secure hidden gems, the A’s most successful years under Beane were defined by Hudson-Mulder-Zito-Giambi-Tejada-Chavez, just as the 70’s were Hunter-Holtzman-Blue-Camapaneris-Jackson-Bando, and the 80’s were Stewart-Moore-Welch-Rickey-McGwire-Canseco. The difference in the three groups is the latter two were led by Hall-of-Fame managers who called on Hall-of-Fame closers to finish games.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on May 28, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

You are absolutely right about the Hall of Fame Managers

Each of which managed to get improvement out of their players. Eckersley had to be convinced to be a closer. Players had a role and learned to rely on each other. The club house had a chemistry. It was volitile at times but the team was a team between the lines. The managers rode a “untamable beast” by keeping track of young egos in a very stressful public performing arena.

Not an easy job. Probably made impossible by a manager that seems to talk more to Beane and Wolfe than his own players.

If Geren wants to spend his days talking to the administration then give him a job upstairs and lets get a playe’rs manager. And lets not wait.

Thomas Walker

by Thomas Walker on May 28, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

We need to develop that thought!

It seems to me that current drafting is done off a stat sheet, rather than scouts’ reports – these are more expensive! However, that trade off is worth it, because the alternative is, truly, spending millions on second-rate temp hires for players. So, Charley Finley’s belief in developing a farm system is very correct – you draft as well as you can, then you teach as well as you can – the result is players like Reggie Jackson, Rickey Henderson, etc. There is no alternative, particularly for a small-market team.

by S. on May 28, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

We've got bunt sacrifices, squeeze plays and base stealing

The As are not currently following the Moneyball philosophy.

by 4-6-3 on May 28, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your sentiment and intentions are true.

But what it all really boils down to is the payroll budget.

I’d just like to warn all of you now: tread lightly with your anti-Beane fervor. If Beane leaves and this team spirals further into the nothingness with a GM who is even less qualified to construct a roster on a tepid budget – and you will be sorry.

by sleepingcobra on May 28, 2011 10:18 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

fair enough.

Then again, he’s always operated with a low budget. So I think it boils down to what UncleLeo said previously, “What have you done for me lately?” And that’s when you start to hear grumblings that Beane doesn’t care anymore. It’s almost been a curse-in-disguise that Beane’s teams were so successful early on. The benefit-of-the-doubt that we were so readily to heap upon him (and some still do) has worn thin.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on May 28, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

We're all wearing a little thin.

I’m just pointing out that, even if Beane hasn’t watched an A’s game since 2008, I just really don’t see a different GM coming in and allocating resources in a markedly better way.

Ultimately, it’s about the payroll budget – nothing else. I often like to point out that if Beane had the Giants’ payroll budget, we’d be in the playoffs a good 3 times every 4 years. You know this. I know this. I got this. You got this. We so excited. Fun Fun Fun Fun.

Yet the Anti-Beane sentiment has grown to such hysterical proportions that people even deny that simple truth. All I’m saying is, thoroughly consider the alternative before you kick out a GM who has, when all’s said and done, worked quite effectively under his budget constraints.

by sleepingcobra on May 28, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

OT but AJ Griffin had another spectacular performance

He needs to be at AA right now, and if he does the same thing there for 3-4 starts, AAA soon after that (whenever that time may be). Or even Lincecum him and skip AA altogether.

We might have something here, folks.

by PL78 on May 28, 2011 10:32 AM PDT reply actions  

Why would you rush him?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jesus Christ

The guy just made his second start in High-A. Why are you so quick to rush him through levels? It’s not like he’s a hitting prospect tearing it up. He’s a pitcher, he looks like he could be a very good pitcher, and we have good pitching already.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 28, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

This.

He doesn’t “need to be at AA right now”. He needs to be right where he is.

by danmerqury on May 28, 2011 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lincecum was drafted 10 overall.

Griffin doesn’t have the oodles of talent that Lincecum is blessed with.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on May 28, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

At this point it's utterly laughable to make any comparisons to Tim Lincecum

For starters, Lincecum was the 10th pick in the draft in 06 and pretty much EVERYONE expected him to be in San Francisco very quickly.

Griffin was drafted in the 34th round by the Phillies in 09, then the 13th the next year by the A’s. This is not a “fast track to Oakland” situation.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 28, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, nine teams thought he would get hurt first.

Which is why the best talent in that draft fell to 10. But yeah, otherwise.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 28, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lincecum

His stuff was always considered electric, but with his small body and slingshot delivery it was questionable if he would be able to handle a ML starter’s workload.

It should be noted that his velo has been down year over year since he broke into the league. He’s been able to morph into more of a finesse pitcher and keep his overall effectiveness intact.

But I would say his long term prognosis is not good. He’s unlikely to age well.

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

we have good pitching already.

Complete this sentence: “You can never have too much ________.”

by PL78 on May 28, 2011 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

sex?

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on May 28, 2011 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

money?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 29, 2011 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Irrelevant

Having a bunch of good pitching doesn’t mean you rush a guy through four levels in one season, barely giving him a handful of starts at each one.

You’re completely off the mark on this.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 28, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you secretly A.J. Griffin?

"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau

by King Richard on May 28, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's putting him in a position to fail.

I have no problem with being aggressive with real talent, but how about giving him 3-4 more starts in high-A, then see if he can handle Midland?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 28, 2011 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we're being reasonable, I think we could reason our way to some reasonableness:

I heartily doubt that anyone thought that:

1) Mark Ellis was going to put up the league’s first-ever negative slugging percentage.
2) Daric Barton was going to regress so hard that he put up a Mirror Universe Season™, where he does the exact opposite of everything he did last year.
3) Kevin Kouzmanoff was going to turn into a bespectacled corpse controlled Weekend At Bernie’s-style by Joel Skinner and Landon Powell.
4) Coco Crisp would stop drawing walks, forever.
5) David DeJesus would take his at bats with a hilarious miniature clown bat for the first 6 weeks of the season.
6) Josh Willingham broke into the offices at Fangraphs and Bloomberg Sports and raised his OBP .50 points across all of his seasons.

The list goes on, and gets continuously less funny. My point here, which I think you can already tell I’m honing in on, is:

A) Fire Bob Geren
B) It’s all about the payroll budget, not Beane’s “desire” or “roster construction skills with a tiny payroll budget.” About the former, we can speculate all day. About the latter, it’s pretty much unquestionable at this point that Beane is, at worst, above average at his job.

by sleepingcobra on May 28, 2011 10:56 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Add to the list

You might heartily doubt that anyone thought that:

7) Conor Jackson would turn out to be a decent hitter who can also play two infield positions.

The consensus opinion around here was that he’s terrible and Beane was insane for signing him.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ahem.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're in the minority, Kyli.

I mean, we love you for it, but not everyone worships at the altar of Conor Jackson.

Yet.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

The time will come. Oh believe me, the time will come.

I’m already getting the human sacrifice chains all clean and non-bloodstained for when the rituals begin.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please tell me you're sacrificing Geren.

Or one of the plethora of 2B we have in the minors.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mmmmaybe.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bad mojo

You have to sacrifice something of value. Not something you were going to get rid of anyway.

If you burned an old Snickers wrapper the gods would not be pleased…

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

But.....we don't have anything of value to sacrifice.

Besides the new big 3.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Try a bunt

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Actually, it's SAINT CONORJACKSON!

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

What was he a saint of again, eyebrows?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

The saint of scoring runs.

His eyebrows are independent saintlets that work with him to give him powers, much like the Planeteers give to Captain Planet. When the eyebrows combine, he is SAINT CONORJACKSON.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are awesome.

I too loved Conor even in the dark days when he was hated by AN, but you are the queen of Conor love.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

♥♥

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still don't know how to do that.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

one for Kyli and one for Conor

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I liked him also

And I still do, of course.

Jack Cust: Nothing but true results…. Sac OPS: .964

by Athletics fan and runner on May 28, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm still not ready to put my faith in Connor Jackson.

The fact that we consider his sub .700 OPS to be decent speaks more about the A’s than it does Jackson.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on May 28, 2011 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

Like all the best position players on the A’s currently, he’s considered good because he’s not God-awful.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 28, 2011 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's why I said a "decent" hitter rather than a good hitter.

You have to admit, most of AN didn’t even expect that.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 29, 2011 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep, no argument here.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 29, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Excellent summary of the issues. My biggest concern about Geren other than his

well-documented managerial deficiencies on the field is the potential impact on the A’s ability to attract top talent. The outspoken denunciation of Geren by Huston Street, a former A’s star, indicates that Geren’s reputation is not exactly a well-kept secret around the major leagues. Knowing about Geren’s rotten managerial style just might be an even more critical factor than the stadium issue in dissuading potential highly sought after stars such as Beltre from ever accepting a lucrative offer to join the A’s…..even if they outbid other teams. The renewal of Geren’s contract just might be the “kiss of death” for the A’s future free agent negotiations as well as his poor managerial performance.

by Vegas Ace on May 28, 2011 11:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Yay!

Now we can blame the Adrian Beltre thing on Geren, too. I love it when AN memes come together.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Three years ago

if you wrote a post like this the Beaneiacs would respond with flame after flame. So things have changed or the Beaneiacs have gone to that great spreadsheet in the sky.

Beane is competent. Drafts and trades are mostly luck. Beane had quite a run for a few years. Now he has the reverse Midas touch with all but starting pitching. Would a change help the A’s? Sometimes change for change’s sake is actually a good thing. Right now I’d say there’s a staleness to the A’s.

by rovingralph on May 28, 2011 11:22 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

or maybe we're just tired of people like you making baiting posts like that

so we just don’t bother.

More than likely Forst has been running day to day operations for the last few seasons anyway. There’s a reason he turned down interview offers from other teams to be their GM. He wants to learn from Beane, and he’s getting to do most of the work anyway.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 28, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do we have proof that Forst is running the team?

Not doubting it, by the way. Just wondering.

I don’t think that’s a baiting post. I have really mixed feelings about Beane. The institutional work in the area of pitching has been consistently phenomenal, and just when you think Beane’s lost his touch, he trades a Mazzaro for a DeJesus (who seems to be coming around) or turns a Lord Farquahar into a Scott Sizemore (i.e. turning a 4A reliever into a potential starting third baseman).

On the other hand, there’s Geren. It’s rare to see any manager remain in place for this long, with nothing to show for it. The only reason the A’s were ten games better in 2010 than before was that a potentially great pitching staff came of age - and that was due in part to the original scouting and to Curt Young and Ron Romanick. When Keith Smart had similar improvement for reasons that had little to do with him, he was nonetheless sent packing.

Outside of Geren, the A’s haven’t been able to do much with the big club this year. You can’t dump players who get off to slow starts, at least not for a while, and the A’s put themselves in a bind by keeping Conor Jackson (no matter how good the decision seems in retrospect) because there’s no room to maneuver barring injuries.

I was more concerned last year when both Patterson and Fox sucked, and it seemed like nobody was home in the front office. At least this year, someone is paying attention. But cronyball just doesn’t work: Managers may be unimportant in a “statistical” sense, but we really have no way of knowing how bad management affects any given player’s individual statistics. Is there a link between all the bad hitting and fielding this year, and Geren’s management? It’s a question that needs to be answered, and it’s one that the Beane Administration refuses to deal with, at least from a public perspective.

by richwol1 on May 28, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

good managing cannot ultimately make up for bad play

Which is what the A’s have done half the year. Also, even though the losing streak sucked, it wasn’t like we were blown out of every game: we lost an extra inning game to Minnesota, did get blown out (because our starter pulled his oblique), and then lost two in extras to the Giants, and two by 3 runs.

This team is still capable. No one should be giving up on them.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 28, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

yep.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on May 28, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

If the bad play is due to sloppiness in the field, not running out grounders, etc.

That’s the manager’s fault for not running a tighter ship, starting in spring training.

by richwol1 on May 28, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait. . .

If drafts and trades are mostly luck, why do we care who the GM is? Even better, why don’t we have multuple lottery winners come do these things for us?

by williadc on May 29, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Signings aren't luck, and the rationale behind trains is important.

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on May 29, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

No dont replace Beane

Join my Quest to bring Back Faith and Family Values in America!!! http://faithandvalues.blogspot.com/

by Athletic on May 28, 2011 11:53 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Thank God someone agrees!

Join my Quest to bring Back Faith and Family Values in America!!! http://faithandvalues.blogspot.com/

by Athletic on May 28, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Beane leaving, without more financial resources will change anything. The A's haven't changed

any of the things they have always done under Sandy, or Billy. The results have been drastically different over the past few years, but the process hasn’t. They have drafted the same types of playesr and same types of FA. Just like anything in life it is hit or miss, the last few years have just been miss.

by theblackpearl on May 28, 2011 12:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Keep Beane

Fire Geren. We are average drafters as an organization. That really isn’t that much of a problem. The draft is kind of a crap shoot with a lot of uncertainty.

by coachmmm on May 28, 2011 12:06 PM PDT reply actions  

It's time for a couple more hitters

a new manager and let’s get some wins.

and someone made a good point: Macha did manage Milton Bradley well

by coachmmm on May 28, 2011 12:07 PM PDT reply actions  

I still think Beane is one of the best GMs, and

if we have to keep Geren to keep Billy happy, then I will have to live with it. Just too bad with all of Billy’s intelect, that he is blinded by his friendship to Geren. There might be 1 or 2 other managers in MLB as poor as Bob, but not more than that.

by robertmelvin on May 28, 2011 12:13 PM PDT reply actions  

It's not easy to find good managers.

There needs to be tactical skill, but it’s mostly about motivation, getting players to play hard and be serious, and managing egos.
Scioscia seems to be solid. Gardenhire has had a lot of success. the old timers: Leyland and LaRussa are still good.
Who would be a good manager for the A’s?

by coachmmm on May 28, 2011 12:16 PM PDT reply actions  

Beane absolutely still has what it takes to be a top-flight GM

Problem is, for whatever debatable reasons, he doesn’t have the desire to be. Remember the days when he vested so much in the team that he had to ride the exercise bike during games to calm down? God that seems so long ago. Or when he would actually watch the games when Howe was here and question moves? All fans want to know ownership cares, and Beane needs to show us something to keep our faith.

by dashman33 on May 28, 2011 12:19 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Speculation of the absolute worst kind.

How do you know he doesn’t have “desire” anymore? Jesus, what are you, his therapist?

by danmerqury on May 28, 2011 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Beane's had the job since what...98 or 99?

that’s a long time in pro sports and maybe it’s just time for the organization to have a new voice.

by 1 Iron on May 28, 2011 12:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Sadly I don't have his number or I would.

I’d ring him at 3am.

“Hiiiiiiitters! Traaaaaaade for some hiiiiiiiiiiitters!”

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heck at this point I'd take just one hitter

the division is there to be taken….we’ll see I guess.

by 1 Iron on May 28, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ikr?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

[ring ring]

“Forst speaking.”

“Is your refrigerator running?”

“Why, I don’t know, perhaps, let me go check—”

“Then you better start batting it leadoff! BWAHAHAHA!” [click]

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Ok so it was my idea, but you're much crazier (in a good way of course) than I.

You should do this. Probably from a burn phone though – I enjoy your posts too much and I don’t think inmate have quite the same posting privileges you currently enjoy. -)

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

[ring ring]

“Forst speaking”

“Is Homer Johnson there?”

“No”

“Is Homer Smith there?”

“No”

“Is Homer Brown there?”

“There are no Homers here!”

“So, that explains why you can’t score any damn runs, don’t it?” [Click]

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   5 recs

lol

You should tag team it.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is excellent and you should feel excellent.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

aw shucks

Thanks guys.

Kyli, I was just riffing off your inspired first posting.

You inspire me. :)

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why would you impersonate a zombie when calling him??

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 28, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it would be foolish to get rid of Beane.

I can’t really fault him for having interests besides baseball, and it seems unfair to imply that he doesn’t care about the A’s simply because he has a passion for soccer. As far as drafting offensive talent, I think we do okay, but a shakeup in our organizational philosophy might be nice. If only Beane had a skilled assistant that he was grooming for the GM position the way Alderson had Beane.

Now to preach at the choir: Fire Bob Geren. Out of a cannon. Into the sun. I think the bottom line on him is that he’s just not a terribly intelligent guy in general, and he specifically lacks anything but superficial baseball intelligence. He’s had years to learn on the job, and now it is time to give up on him. Unfortunately, I think we’re stuck with him for the remainder of the year. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for 2012.

by Axl on May 28, 2011 12:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Um, when you’re the GM of a MLB baseball team your first and main interest should be your team, period.

by dashman33 on May 28, 2011 12:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

That's a judgement call.

It’s not some kind of universal truth, and I’m sure plenty of GMs have other interests which take away from the attention they might pay to their teams.

by Axl on May 28, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

If the A's do get rid of Bobo

who gets the job?….the best man at Beane’s second wedding?

by 1 Iron on May 28, 2011 12:34 PM PDT reply actions  

I wonder how good his best man speech was.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

He didn't have one.

He got ejected for arguing shrimp and quiche.

by LoneStranger on May 28, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But nobody saw it because it was during the Maid of Honor's speech

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 28, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I've been thinking about doing a fanpost about how I was better on AN as sirbed

it’s really been all downhill since I started to let Geren manage my posts.

by 1 Iron on May 28, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fuck, Barca are winning.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 12:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Awful now.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Barcelona FC. The football team.

It’s the UEFA Champions League Final (the best of the best club teams in Europe).

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You follow a lot of sports

I’m pretty much down to football these days….although the fact that I’ve only seen 2 A’s games this year will not stop me from having wildly incorrect opinions on the A’s.

by 1 Iron on May 28, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't follow them all with the dedication that I show to the A's.

I have season tickets to Blackburn Rovers FC and Wigan Warriors, and I check out the results for the cricket.

The NFL I watch if I can find it online.

I’m a sports geek.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I'm waiting for life to do that to me too.

Fingers crossed.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Depends where I live.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now, in 1,000 words or less, explain why exactly I've moved to New Jersey. =P

But yeah if I moved to the US obviously it’d probably be one of the two US sports I follow.

Speaking of moving, did I tell you about the December invite from my friend?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

She's invited me to a big family reunion in December.

Like, the whole clan. 50+ relatives. =S

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well of course. I'm pretty awesome.

Slightly terrified though!

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

If?

If? Pffft.

Although to be fair I’ll be a hit or I’ll be buried in a ditch. I don’t think there’s a third option here.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

You should send portfolios to U.S. radio and television stations.

Foreign accent + good knowledge of American sports = intriguing to certain people in the business.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I honestly think it'd be like a US broadcaster trying to make it here.

They’d just get laughed out of the building.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even if he had a broad knowledge of football, cricket, and Olympic sports, as well as a smooth voice and good looks?

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well Olympic Sports he has a chance at.

But British/European sports? Nah.

Just picture in your head an English voice calling a baseball game. There’d be so many people ringing in saying “Why is this Englishman telling me what is going on? What does he know about baseball?!”

Though yes I do have good looks. =P

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see it.

The Yankees have a woman in their booth.

There were a lot of smooth voices calling the World Cup, and if those voices were intelligently calling a game, the accent would only be a distraction to the worst of nationalists and racists.

Then again, maybe there are enough prejudiced provincials in the UK to make a severe ratings drop for football broadcasts. However, a good English or Scottish announcer with good enunciation would go over fine in baseball, because baseball is kind of ignored by the most ignorant in favor of NFL and NASCAR and MMA.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's more that people are set in their ways.

And those delightful Americanisms just make people chuckle when they’re used in reference to British sports.

Hold on, let me see if I can find a clip to illustrate my point.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here:

Boston Goals.

Basically it’s seen as comical in this country. It’s not really the accent, it’s the Americanisms that people find humourous.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

That video is stupid

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 28, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

But it's not a symmetrical situation.

Americans like British accents. We have this peculiar cultural notion that Brits are smarter, sexier, and just more interesting than our own types. British culture doesn’t feel the same way about Americans.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 29, 2011 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Difference being,

that if you knew your baseball, the audience would realize it with a quickness. Then you be the most “charming” announcer around. We like different things.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like neither of these teams

Can a meteor hit Wembley about now?

by throwmonkey on May 28, 2011 1:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

No, cos it'd damage my beloved country.

I wouldn’t be opposed to an SAS team sorting everyone out though.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey Oldham..... Speaking of SAS

A crack SAS team has captured two top Taliban commanders without a shot being fired in a secret dawn raid in Afghanistan.
The 12 elite troops seized Maulawi Rahman and Maulawi Mohammed at a high-walled compound north of the remote town of Babaji in Helmand province.
Both men, who surrendered without a fight, are said to have been close confidants of Osama Bin Laden, the terror mastermind killed by US Special Forces in Pakistan last month.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1391968/Top-Al-Qaeda-commanders-close-links-Bin-Laden-captured-SAS-dawn-raid.html#ixzz1NgfF3osZ

by Trainman on May 28, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

SAS > Your Special Forces.

Yes, we’re awesome.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't forget the NZSAS

they won a Presidential Unit Citation and another soldier won a VC

by Trainman on May 28, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah they're not bad too.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Navy SEALS don't agree.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

nor does devgru

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 28, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ooh, a menage a trois?

" I call my puppy Liberace, because he's the peein-ist"- Benny Hill

by Tutu-late on May 29, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Those bastards

did they get hurt by the power play?

by 1 Iron on May 28, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

....no.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

And one must say, very deservedly so

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I switched over to the Giants/Brewers game.

I was falling asleep. “Pass, move, dive.” Yawn.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I obviously haven't either, given as I missed the Gomez inside the parker.

I’m watching it on ESPN America (out of the corner of my eye) and when elcroata said Gomez had hit a HR my brain kind of went:

“Gomez. He’s fast, right? I guess it’s feasible. Played for the Twins………but they traded him……somewhere. Wait, wasn’t it the Brewers?!”

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sign more Latin players

Don’t sign the old DH every season use that money for signing players not in the draft. This market is something the A’s should consider

Please fire Bob

by Dylan Robinson on May 28, 2011 1:13 PM PDT reply actions  

We should sign more players

But we also signed Matsui who is worthless

Please fire Bob

by Dylan Robinson on May 28, 2011 1:17 PM PDT reply actions  

As usual, great insight

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I paid attention to the donkey,

but not that stupid golf club.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yay!

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's tough to keep track.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

cRaZeeCaPsDuDe

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

See.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not blonde.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bed could have got away with that joke.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's true....I need a new place to hide.

I wonder if anyone is using that undisclosed location that Dick Cheney used to use?

by 1 Iron on May 28, 2011 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

This reminds me, Hawaii Five-O might be on.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is not. =(

I will have to have some chocolate cake to make up for this disappointment.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

That describes pretty much every

woman on any television show.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

{nods}

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on May 28, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is not true.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Says the guy who doesn't know

how to do hearts.

Some day you’ll understand.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

She is so, so hot.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 28, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is it true his first post on An was
Ahhh…Dickens. The imagery of cobblestone streets, cragging London buildings, and nutmeg-filled Yorkshire puddings. Hello, I’m a British person.

by LoneStranger on May 28, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

AND DID THOSE FEEEEEET

IN ANCIENT TIIIIIIIMES
WALK UPON ENGLAND’S MOOOUUNTAAAINS GREEEEEN?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Crackin' song.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not even so sure he's lost the clubhouse.

I mean if these guys had quit on him, that five-game skid would have seen double digits. Instead, amid the chaos, the A’s split down south and won last night. You can small sample that thing all you want, but there seemed to be a good opportunity for the players to jump ship, and it didn’t happen.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on May 28, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh, he's done that to himself.

You can’t expect that the sharks wouldn’t move in for the kill when fresh blood hits the water.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can if it's the playoffs!

ZING

… too soon?

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 28, 2011 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

How cool is that?
Carlos Gomez hits an inside-the-park home run (3) on a ground ball through the hole at second base.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Isn't he really, really, really fast?

The ex-Twin, right?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's him

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I must find this highlight.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless 'magic' happened it's an error.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It looked like it took a crazy bounce down the right field wall.

But the camera angle didn’t cover it very well.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow and than no error?

And a long time to recover. Gomez was just around first as he whiffed.

by Rio on May 28, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

They just showed the replay from another angle. No magic.

He had the ball right near his glove between his legs and didn’t manage to pick it up. It’s an error.

by 4-6-3 on May 28, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

An ITPHR is an error 99% of the time

So are most triples and many doubles.

They just don’t score them that way.

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really? Triples I can understand unless it's AT&T Park/Crawford on the bases.

But most doubles are legit.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Certainly it depends on your definition of a mistake

Right now, the ball pretty much has to hit the fielder in the glove (and be dropped) for it to be an error. Or a bad throw back to the IF.

But all sorts of misplays can happen. A lot of them you don’t see on TV.

Breaking in on a ball that’s over their head. Diving for a ball that they had no chance at. That kind of stuff.

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't agree.

There are many many legit doubles. And given how few triples there are, and how many are hit by fast players to right, I’d think most of those are legit too.

by 4-6-3 on May 28, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not at all

Most triples and doubles are legit. Many ITPHR come from an outfielder taking a chance on a dive and coming up empty. That’s not an automatic error.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 28, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not when it's against the Giants

Then it’s not an error, it’s just great

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

He ain't that fast

Signed,
Ricky Bobby

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 28, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would quibble with several of the items

put forward as facts in the original post. But for now I’ll just address one:

but the offense has been bad to worse, with a distinctly downward trend.

It’s true that the offense has been bad since 2006 (though not as bad as it’s often made out to be), but a careful look at offense stats shows that the trend has been erratic and not “distinctly downward”.

For example, wRC+ — which I would say is the best measure of overall offense in a single number — looks like this:

2006: 97
2007: 99
2008: 87
2009: 94
2010: 97
2011: 88

For those unfamiliar with the number, it scales to 100, so 100 is average, below 100 is bad, and above 100 is good.

Other offensive stats move similarly over the same time period, bouncing around in the below average region, but not trending clearly downward.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:38 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Hm
For those unfamiliar with the number, it scales to 100, so 100 is average, below 100 is bad, and above 100 is good.

How can something that scales to 100 have 100 as average and above 100 being good?

Of course, I’m only talking semantics of “scaling” as you obviously know the stat. Is that a proper use of “scales to”? I’d think that batting average scales to 1.000, for example.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I confess bad terminology.

I stand corrected, and trust that you all get what I mean.

I suppose a better way to say it would be “it is scaled so that 100 is average”.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for clarifying

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 28, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm got a Geren fan

Getting rid of him seems like a good idea to me.

But the problems with Beane, staff and trades is mostly money. If you spend as little as the As, you have to spread the money around. And that means trading single players who might become stars for prospects. The prospects may be able to help the team as much but without having to pay as high a price.

I have no opinion on Wolff other than he owns the team, he can do with it what he wants.

The real problem that needs fixed is money. And by money, I mean the Coliseum. Moving to San Jose would make a huge difference in income and then of course in what kid of team the As can field.

by 4-6-3 on May 28, 2011 1:44 PM PDT reply actions  

A "loath" ?

“Incompetency’s” ?
Then there’s a sentence that starts with “Further” and has way too many commas.

I’m sorry, I stopped reading after that. The level of writing really shouldn’t be on the frontpage of this website.

by OPS2000 on May 28, 2011 1:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Sure, it could be better.

I noticed, too, as I’m sure many of us did. But what the hell, it’s a blog and you get it for free and Zonis is taking the trouble to give us something interesting to read. He’s not paid for it, so give him a break.

The Internet doesn’t owe you writing assignments that meet your grammatical standards. If you want to stop reading, just stop reading. No need to come in here and be a pill about it.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

We have stopped 'correcting' minor inefficiencies and errors from our writers. This has lead to a less grammatically-correct blog, but one that is more focussed on baseball.

Which is good. It’s a blog about baseball, not about grammar or creative writing.

I forget now who invented the word ‘groll’ (grammar troll), but ever since his front page article, there has been a noticeable drop-off in the number of grammatical ‘corrections’, and AN is for the better because of it.

One of our best, most influential writers makes numerous errors that a native English speaker wouldn’t, and yet, his overall presentations are so good, no one ever hassles him. (Nor should they!)

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 28, 2011 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Jewish Hammer is an angry man.

And nowhere near as good as he used to be.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 1:59 PM PDT reply actions  

righto.

I was thinking there was no way Josh was Jewish. :)

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are there Jews in Alabama?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 28, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't want to sound crotchety

But the post needed a lot of editing…and as for Microsoft Word’s Spellcheck, relying solely on that is disastrous. Why not simply read and reread the post before it goes on-line??

I think what you’re looking at is four years of frustration. While there’s no question the A’s pitching program, top to bottom, is one of the best, if not the best, in the major leagues, the position players’ program, hitting in particular, is - in the words of Paul Thomas - poor-ish. Couple that with the perceived nepotism regarding Bob Geren, and a tendency to appear indifferent to the travails of the club (more evident last spring than this year), and I think it’s right to see things as problematic.

On the other hand, this management is notorious for pulling rabbits out of hats, so while I’m of mixed-mind about Beane because of the above issues, it’s also true that when it comes to finding hidden value, he’s still mostly second to none.

I just wish Geren could be promoted and another manager brought in. Sometimes change at that level really does work, at least in the short haul.

by richwol1 on May 28, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

You rip him for spelling and grammer

yet still type That’s. That’s isnt a word. That is they are two words. They’re horrible contractions. They are not meant to be together like that. That is.

by Glomar on May 28, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

not if you're referring to television star Kelsey Grammer.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 28, 2011 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

According to dictionary.com

’That’s’ is a proper contraction.

that’s
   /ðæts; unstressed ðəts/ Show Spelled[thats; unstressed thuhts]
1.
contraction of that is: That’s mine.
2.
contraction of that has: That’s got more leaves.

by coffee roaster on May 28, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the hell are you talking about?

You shouldn’t rip someone’s grammar when you have no idea what you’re talking about. That someone rec’d what you wrote makes me very, very sad.

by williadc on May 29, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think there can be any doubt

that BoBo has lost the players. It’s very clear that they have no confidence in his ability to lead, and by any proper mangement criteria, it’s time to make a change. I do not believe this includes Beane himself, nor should it. But there is a reasonable expectation that Billy take corrective action. Geren has been bad enough that even if the A’s go on an eight game tear, it would do little to change opinion at this point.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm cool with Geren criticism.

I don’t like Geren either. But this post was primarily about BB, and it ended with this awful kicker:

So yes, I say it. Produce or get out, Billy. If you won’t lead this team to victory, then we need someone who will. And please, turn off the Quakes game, there’s baseball to be played.

The thing that separates this post from the 99% of AN posts I read, don’t process, and immediately forget about is the frankly offensive suggestion that Billy Beane is too interested in soccer to bother with the A’s. It is absolute nonsense.

The front page of the most visible non-official A’s website is accusing the head of the organization of taking a highly competitive job, getting paid seven figures to do it, and then mailing it in. I don’t make 5% of what Billy Beane makes, but if someone accused me of shirking my responsibilities, I’d be pissed. Especially if that someone knew nothing of my work or of my day-to-day work habits. This post is essentially questioning a man’s integrity. Is it as bad as Dave Del Grande basically calling him a racist for releasing Milton Bradley? Not at all. But it is still a completely baseless attack on a man’s professionalism nonetheless.

by BWH on May 28, 2011 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

I very much get your point.

But Beane did in fact hire his “best friend” for a job that said friend is no longer getting done. The criticism has validity. Like you, I rather doubt Beane will accept the status quo much longer. His manager has held sway in the past and changes were made in the organization based on his input. But that only goes so far, and I think Bobo has reached the end. Precisely because he’s getting by based on “who he knows” rather than talent. Now he’s embarrasing Beane. And everyone knows it.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

We who comment regularly on AN recently have stopped 'correcting' grammatical mistakes made by our writers. This has led to a less well-written blog, but one more focussed on baseball.

Which is good. It’s a blog about baseball, not about grammar or creative writing. ‘For goodness sake’, one can get better-written content on sfgate for free, but it shouldn’t be free.

I forget now who invented the word ‘groll’ (grammar troll), but ever since his front page article, there has been a noticeable drop-off in the number of grammatical ‘corrections’, and AN is for the better because of it.

One of our best, most influential writers makes numerous errors that a native English speaker wouldn’t, and yet, his overall presentations are so good, no one ever hassles him. (Nor should they!)

“Eye four won olney comment whan the poaster rghts stuffing that meaks mai hed esplode”

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 28, 2011 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not about correcting mistakes

It’s about bad writing on the front page in general

by OPS2000 on May 29, 2011 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Buster Olney makes my hed esplode too.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 29, 2011 5:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

The loath part I admit was a mistake,

the misspelling of incompetencies was due to Microsoft Word’s horrible spell check.

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

by Zonis on May 28, 2011 2:35 PM PDT reply actions  

I think only God can do that.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

...and even then only with Bill's permission.

I'm beginning to believe that Bud Selig wants to die of old age before he has to make a decision regarding Oakland vs San Jose.

by UncleLeo on May 28, 2011 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to change the subject, but...

This is the worst Memorial Day weekend weather I can ever remember!

by Mattel on May 28, 2011 2:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh, yeah?

Here in Southern Oregon we have had rain, snow down to 3500’ and topped out at mid-50’s nearly every day this month.

It can’t possibly be as bad in the Bay Area?

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 28, 2011 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, it's topping out at high 60s though, and that's in the warm areas

That’s 10 degrees too cold for us at least. And it’s rained twice a week. And there has been snow down to 7000’ feet in Tahoe. This amount of rain and snow is unheard of in May. Any amount of rain and snow is very unusual in May in the Bay Area.

by 4-6-3 on May 29, 2011 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jesus, the Giants have the most annoying relief pitcher ever.

Romo?

The amount of twitching he does on the mound is ridiculous.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 28, 2011 3:24 PM PDT reply actions  

This game is SOOOOOOOOOOO slow

It was slow before and now with this hurt ump it’s even worse.

ZZZZzzzzz

by 4-6-3 on May 28, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

That freaking suicide squeeze for the win was fantastic, though

And it game against the Gnats! Hahahaha

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 28, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Grass is greener

Nobody is going to magically pull Andrew Freidman or Alex Anthopoulos out of their butt if the team gets rid of Beane. More likely, the A’s go into GM hell, with a constant carousel of crap who leave the team in worse and worse shape. That’s why so many small market teams are such hopeless wrecks and quite a few large market teams are totally maddening to be a fan of. Good management is just really hard to find.

I’m not advocating mediocrity. I still like Beane a lot and think he remains a well above average GM. I still like the moves he makes. I appreciate that I can see the logic behind just about every one. I even liked a lot of the preseason moves last year at the time, like acquiring Jake Fox. Things just haven’t worked out for a couple of years, and the organization has had some pretty horrible luck on the farm with every single prospect getting worse last season. That’s just not something you can predict.

In fact, the only recent move I can think of that I really didn’t like was non-tendering Cust, and this season so far has shown that to be the correct move. The warning signs of serious decline were there, and while Matsui is actually worse, it looks like it was the right thing to do to move on and see if we could get something better.

by thelincolndude on May 28, 2011 4:26 PM PDT reply actions  

It's true that you don't know what you got until it's gone

I think we’ve taken Billy (or Forst, if he’s really running things now), for granted recently. It hasn’t been hard to do so, since there have been very mediocre teams of late with terrible offensive players. But the truth is, Billy’s strengths have always been trying to exploit inefficiencies in the market and drafting starting pitching, not drafting good offensive players.

A big part of the failure the last few years was Billy trying to exploit a certain inefficiency in the market and guessing wrong: that inefficiency would be players with injury histories or aging veterans. He caught lightning in a bottle with Frank Thomas in 06, and has basically tried to replicate it every year since. The problem is, there’s a reason these specific guys are so easy to sign: THEY GET INJURED ALL THE DAMN TIME. So he guessed wrong. It seems like he may be shying away from this theory now, which is a good thing.

As for starting pitching, look at the studs Billy has gotten us. Cahill, Anderson and Gio are fantastic, and he seems to pull closers out of his ass at will. He can still draft pitchers, and I would argue starting pitching is more valuable than hitting (don’t want to start a big argument with this statement, BTW. Let’s just agree starting pitching is hugely important).

When you have a small payroll, you have to be a bit of a gambler. Billy took a calculated risk when he traded for Holliday, and it didn’t work out. He tried to steal the division and address the hitting and it failed. Again, when you have a small payroll, you gotta take risks, and if you guess wrong? You don’t have the payroll flexibility to bury it. I believe this was addressed in Moneyball. If the Yankees screw up royally (like signing Javier Vasquez twice when he can’t pitch in New York), they can just buy their way out of it. The A’s can’t.

Look at the last seven World Series champions: All were in the top half of MLB in payroll and most were in the top 10. Baseball is the sport where it’s easiest to buy a championship. The A’s don’t have the luxury of being in that club, so we have to rely on our crafty GM. And whether it’s Forst or Billy, whoever is in charge is doing a decent job. I doubt there is anyone out there who can do much better at this point.

Not firing Geren is a huge mistake, and looks bad on Billy. But I wouldn’t get rid of Billy just to be rid of Geren. In my opinion, that would be short-sighted and an even greater mistake than keeping Best Man Bob for the rest of the year.

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 28, 2011 4:36 PM PDT reply actions  

Well reasoned.

I thought I had copyrighted ‘caught lightning in a bottle’ to refer to the Big Hurt signing, but it turns out it was Ben Frankling.

FIRE GEREN NOW!!!!!

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 28, 2011 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just one of many things that ol' Ben frankled.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 29, 2011 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

He also liked to GET frankled,

as shown by his frequent attendance at whipping parlors during trips to England.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 29, 2011 5:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

That is one of the weirdest damn references I've ever read, even by AN standards

Which is to say, I approve

Often wrong but never in doubt

"The whole thing was a piece of theatre. Billy had told Art how and where to stand during a game so that the players would... take strength from his countenance, because when Art sat on the bench... he looked like a prisoner of war."
-Moneyball

by darooster on May 29, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, first of all, the idea is a non-starter.

Beane has an ownership stake in the team and the unconditional, perpetual faith of the owner. There’s no way Beane will ever be gone until Wolff is gone, so unless the BRC shoots down San Jose, Beane will be here until he chooses to retire.

That said, I agree with the general premise of replacing management when your company consistently underperforms. If you really want to advocate for that, though, you need to offer an alternative you think is better.

Geren should be fired unless the A’s catch utter fire, though, and it should ideally happen midseason. There’s almost no downside to doing this, and potentially a lot of upside.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 28, 2011 4:53 PM PDT reply actions  

The thing is

They haven’t been underperforming. At all. The early part of this decade caused hardcore fans to expect a serious contender every year, but given the payroll that is not a reasonable expectation.

In 2010, the A’s were 3rd in all of MLB in marginal cost per win. In 2009, 10th. In 2008, also 3rd. These numbers from bizofbaseball.com.

by thelincolndude on May 28, 2011 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Marginal cost per win is a rigged and mostly meaningless statistic.

It is far more reflective of who has money than who has management acumen. I prefer to look at how every year, the A’s have less wins than their Pythagorean record suggests they should.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 29, 2011 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now we get to see if the Yankees offense is actually good

On this roadtrip they face Pineda, King Felix, Vargas, Cahill, Anderson & Gio all in a row, away. LOVE the idea of a weary Yanks facing BA+Gio last :)

by PL78 on May 28, 2011 5:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Wow that is an awful road tip for them.

cant wait for the talk about the AL West being weak after they get dominated.

by Glomar on May 28, 2011 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope so

I hope Jeter gets like 1 hit the entire 6 games too.

by PL78 on May 28, 2011 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm a little scared of the Mariners.

They have enough money to get better in a hurry, if they can ever figure out what a good hitter looks like.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 28, 2011 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is true

But, arent we in the same boat? That article was right, we basically are the same team :/

by PL78 on May 28, 2011 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last year the weather was mild....

but this is ridiculous. It hasn’t hit 90 degree’s in Fresno yet, which is unheard of. Not that I’m complaining. I need to send a thank you note to Al Gore for all the global warming.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It didn't bother me that Wolff defended Geren...

…it bothered me how far he went in defending Geren. It’s pretty standard to do the vote of confidence thing even while plotting the guy’s demise, but geez, Wolff made Geren sound like Casey freaking Stengel.

I'm beginning to believe that Bud Selig wants to die of old age before he has to make a decision regarding Oakland vs San Jose.

by UncleLeo on May 28, 2011 5:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Eh, it's symptomatic of a very good administrator...

He’s not going to undercut a management (Beane) decision. He’ll expect Beane to do the deed.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on May 28, 2011 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Casey feaking Stengel 'managed' the Mets to a 40-120 record in 1962. I was there for that.

He was funny, but sometimes the joke was on him.

’Can’t anybody here play this game?’

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 28, 2011 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fix the A's.

Start w/ moving the team. Oakland is not a viable choice for a MLB team. Hell the city itself wanted the Raiders more than the A’s. They ruined that stadium, in their zeal for Al Davis.

Do not fire Billy Beane. He is your single most valuable asset. We’ve been running out teams that by right should be 100 loss clubs for the last 4 years. They are a middle of the pack also ran team due to his eye for pitching. Name me another GM who can lay claim to having 6 pitchers the like of Zito, Hudson, Mulder, Cahill, Anderson, and Gonzalez come through their minor league in a period of 10 years
Beane has his issues(no hitters) but his positives far out weigh the negatives.

I implore you fellow A’s Fan. Reach down deep find a bigger set of balls and stand by the man who made your team relevant again.

by jtleroy on May 28, 2011 6:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Complacency

Too much of a feel of complacency around the A’s makes me unsettled. If you are a big league team, you need to spend like one. Why not get a real thumper at first and third? If we did that, we would be fine with this team as it is. But the two big holes at those critical corners is like a sea anchor to any offense the pop guns we have at other positions can muster.
Not sure, undecided, on Beane. I guess if forced to choose I would say: Keep Billy, kick Geren to the curb and hire a firebrand manager (I love what Gibson has done in Arizona) and spend on the corners.

Baja been here

by bajablue on May 28, 2011 8:26 PM PDT reply actions  

I think the A's should invest lots of money into undetectable PED research

as long as 20 or 30 million would bring a guaranteed breakthrough that the club could use as a special advantage for its’ players for a season before free agents and traded guys spill the beans.

"Bob Geren DOES communicate!
He just can’t help that no one else understands the language of the pheromones his fingers give off"- ChickenStanley

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 29, 2011 5:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Wouldn't it be easier to just stuff the detection committee with former A's personel?

Seems to have worked well for the BoTox.

" I call my puppy Liberace, because he's the peein-ist"- Benny Hill

by Tutu-late on May 29, 2011 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

BoTox... :-p... LOL!

I'm beginning to believe that Bud Selig wants to die of old age before he has to make a decision regarding Oakland vs San Jose.

by UncleLeo on May 29, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

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