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Around SBN: So Let's Talk About Hulk Too, I Suppose

Best Manifest Destiny: For the A's to Progress, Geren Must Go

Disclaimer: This is a long -- perhaps tl;dr-level -- piece replete with gut-level opinion and a minimum of statistical substantiation, delivered with as even a tone as I could muster and intended to be as devoid of personal rancor as I could fashion.  Still, it is not the Feel-Good Post of the Summer, so if you don't need to have your Monday rendered any more of a bummer than Mondays already are, I might recommend caution in continuing past the fold.  --EN

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The sands of time
were eroded by
The River of Constant Change.

Star-divide

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You walked into the room
I just had to laugh
The face you wore was cool
You were a photograph

I have a job, you know. We all do; if we didn't most of us would probably starve. Some of us have jobs and still starve, to add insult to penury. In my job I just got a pretty bad and ominous review, and got myself essentially put on probation in the process. See, I am a copy editor and in the absence of author-provided photocaptions for some of the included images in the articles I deal with, I was supplying them myself by gleaning passages from the text and miniaturizing them into relevant captions. Turns out, the company I work for wants the captions to say stuff that's not gone into in the text, and I got raked over the coals for not knowing that, amongst other essentials.  Leave it to me to get into trouble over captions for pictures... that's never happened before, has it?  But I've been stressed out ever since, trying not to mess up further since this happened about 10 days ago.  Because I have a job.  And if I bollocks it up too egregiously, they'll find someone who won't who they think'll do the job better.  And they'll be right.

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Mark Ellis comforts Brian Fuentes as the reliever contemplates life without a left arm. Not pictured: Andrew Bailey, who must be contemplating life without a right arm should Best Man Bob use him in a similar fashion when he returns from the disabled list.

We rub up against these relationships every day in our lives: every business we enter, whether it's the bank or the barbershop, has managers and owners and expectations therein that guarantee -- or at least hope to help to ensure -- that the business remains viable and on course, whatever goods or services it may provide.  At some point, you have to ask yourself: if a company I was patronizing allowed a history and a pattern of failure to develop under a particular management regime, and the owners failed to replace or even really reprimand that supervisor, would I still patronize that business?  Especially if I continually perceived that this negligence was affecting, as it inevitably would after enough repeating instances of the same failure, the quality of the product or service I was purchasing.  Or would I look for a competitor of that business that more had its shit together, and that wouldn't allow institutionalized mechanisms of underachievement and failure to fester unchallenged?  Because in some cases, repetition isn't a form of change; it's an irritant and a demoralizing, limiting factor. Sometimes, if the record is skipping, you have to reposition the tonearm so it'll play the rest of the song and you won't go mad.

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I'm not threatening to defect to the Minnesota Twins (they've got enough of their own problems these days), nor am I going to drill down into the specifics of every game Geren's put Fuentes into that was tied and on the road, or some other move where even the other team's TV broadcasters were thanking him out loud.  Fuentes himself had questions, via the media, about all of that which apparently boiled over yesterday.  But whether you think Fuentes is a crappy washed-up hack that can only get lefties out and should therefore STFU or a genuine victim of Geren's apocalyptic bullpen management that ought to speak out isn't really the point.  The point is that when you're 6 weeks into the season and your go-to primary reliever (absent one DL'd All-Star closer) can't help but rip you for overusing him after the game, one begins to wonder whether -- especially following a 4-year pattern of bullpen overuse and questionable management of the relievers (think Wuertz and Breslow in past seasons) in particular -- you are the right man to manage a baseball team in the first place, given the truly relevant criteria for the position.  Because many, many knowledgeable people will tell you that the central role of a manager -- and the area in which he has the most impact upon the results of the games -- is in his use of the bullpen.  The rest, they'll tell you, can be done by your 11-year-old nephew from Manteca as long as he's had his Ritalin and something that wasn't Lik-m-Aid Fun Dip to eat for lunch.  If this is so, then we need to start scouring the middle schools for sixth-graders that can fill out a lineup card, because our current occupant is unsuitable in extremis.

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credibility
[ˌkrɛdɪˈbɪlɪtɪ]
n; the quality of being believed or trusted

I don't think we need to get too into the whole thing about why you shouldn't hire your friends, either... that should be obvious to every businessperson from the smallest to the largest.  I am as likely in life to acquire an MBA as Donald Trump is to acquire a shred of basic humility, but even I know that it's not the hiring, but the social connections and commitments that precede the hiring that cloud the judgment around the firing, all of which makes the truism that you oughtn't ever mix business with pleasure.  What bothers me most about the failure of Beane to hold Geren accountable isn't really the obvious-as-a-white-elephant "insider" hire, nor is it the evasions and excuses about the injuries and whatnot.  OK, Ken Macha was missing Milton Bradley and whoever else for whole segments of 2006 and still took the team to the ALCS, but whatever.  It isn't even the soporific play by a team that often looks perennially underprepared and uninspired, even in the presence of a starting staff that could conceivably be the cornerstone of a run of excellence in the near future. It's not even the entropy I perceive around the role (or lack thereof) this manager takes in making sure the position players are prepared to get to the level where they can truly support and complement the pitchers and build a complete mechanism to win games on both sides of the ball, essential as I might feel that to be for a ballclub to have and retain that "it" factor.  Geren's in-game style and moves may wither when subjected to scrutiny but it isn't even that, and to expect Beane to publicly second-guess those specific moves and that motivational tone is unreasonable.

Truth be told, what truly rankles is the contempt it expresses when you are the GM/owner (itself a conflict of interest in more than a few folks' opinions) and you blatantly hire your best pal and let him continuously fail as if you don't really mind or care about the hit that provides to your (once admirable and emulable) credibility in your industry. When you're in charge and you don't even respond as if something is going wrong with the proud, historical product of which you are the custodian and that you have expectations beyond what this current person may be able to realistically provide.  When you allow the person in question to operate in a bubble free of basic accountability for so long that contradicting them or their actions in any way becomes difficult and a thing to be avoided at all costs.  That's not an environment that breeds respect for leadership anyway, where anyone looking at the organization or thinking about signing here can see, like we can, the more-than-subtle hint of cronyism that the arc and air of Geren's tenure here has evidenced.  As I see it, the reality is that to regain a semblance of credibility and balance on the matter, in this case the GM side of BB must bite the bullet and fire his best friend. This, if only to demonstrate that he's still got some stake in the on-field timbre/vibe and results and isn't just assisting in the treading-water process of which this ownership team --  of which he is an integral part -- is often accused.

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Perhaps most troubling is the constant stream of bleat we hear from this front office about how small the margin of error is for these small market A's, and how every single "i" must be dotted and every "t" crossed for the beleaguered David franchise to have any chance against the behemoth Goliaths like the Yankees or the Red Sox or whoever.  That every single stone must be turned over in search of players and personnel and data that can maximize the shred of opportunity our boys have to compete against the Big Money.  We hear about it all the time and they even make the occasional movie about it... so why doesn't this philosophy extend to what might be this current configuration's biggest millstone?  To the guy who has never shown the imagination to succeed in this job, and who has seen a lot of stuff written about how he needs to finally do so, and who now almost seems to have begun to manage the games in May like each one is the 7th Game of the World Series?  I swear the way he burns the 'pen, you wonder if he's saving anything for September... or if maybe to him this is September and he feels somehow under the gun to win right now, lest he be relieved of his duties.  I can't pretend to know for sure either way, but the question remains: how does someone who seems responsible for so many poor decisions that have led to so many dubious in-game situations and so many eventual losses for the team, all whilst roasting the vital personnel we'll need in some serviceable condition later on and thereby damaging our future prospects for success.... exactly how does this person fit in with the "we have too little margin for error to make avoidable mistakes" credo?  You'd think that a braintrust that prides itself on statistical analysis of the mathematical realities of situations would have a manager that can see a series or even a homestand or roadtrip in terms of more than just the nine innings of one of its games anyway -- and act accordingly -- but apparently this is less of a prerequisite than might be imagined.

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"Everyone got to change." -- Miles Davis III

The basic bottom line (!!!!!) in all of this is change: I feel that in order to maximize the chances to rescue the season while we're still close to the top of the division (or it's so bad that no team can really vault that far out in front yet) and make a run at not wasting these pitchers (as regards both the supremacy of the starters and the stamina of the relievers), things have got to substantively change.  I look at Fuentes yesterday, and at all the times Geren has warmed up relievers from Ziegler to Breslow over the course of a game and failed to use them in the proper matchups (or use them at all), and I see something that must change.  I see in my mind's eye a game earlier this season where Ziggy was all warmed up and left to hang by Geren, staring in from the bullpen as hitter after hitter batted against a gassed pitcher and in all likelihood wondering "WTF is this guy doing?"  Eventually we lost, even before Brad was used... I can still see him there by the bullpen, incredulously waiting for a call that never came, and I know the pattern must change before this year turns into an even more disastrous impersonation of the four previous ones. 

We have so little margin for error that I can't see how retaining the stagnant presence of an indisputably unsuccessful field general will bring about the basic need for a fresh approach and the renewed focus I have felt this franchise has lacked for some significant time now.  I really just sense that only real and somewhat radical change can hope to bring that about, and that's why I wrote this, as hard as it is to start the week off all negative and such.  I know we get our share of Cars tunes around here, with the fans always chanting "Let's Go!" while the few baserunners wonder who is gonna drive them home tonight.  Hell, I thought this call to shake it up was just what I needed, but still the good times have yet to roll -- and no one likes a sad song anyway. But yet I continue to feel that however painful, this change is one (perhaps one among several) that has to be made or this will be a team that never emerges from the tractor beam of .500 or worse, won't ever resemble something we can bear to watch on a daily basis without resorting to stimulants -- if only to stem the vortex of ennui that seems to whirl around this franchise like a Catherine Wheel of Yawns. 

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That's Australian for "We are f%*@'d," mate.

I totally get that a new manager isn't going to immediately cause Barton to quit acting like he's in a contest to see who can take the closest pitch and get it called a ball, or Kouzmanoff to be able to field, no less hit, his weight.  I also get that it's May, but for me just as much of the critique goes back to the seasons of the recent past where Geren's never failed to sit the hot bat or tax the gassed reliever.  Like people were saying yesterday amidst the debacle of the weekend, where the Giants essentially took any remaining borderline/undecided fans the A's could have had and caused them all to paint their houses that hideous orange and black: there needs, at long last, to be a real shakeup.  Maybe more change needs to happen and we need to see some of the youngsters (Weeks, Cardenas) like some people around here are saying, I don't really know.  What I do know is that whatever ability this manager might have once had to lead the A's from their Space Malaise, it's gone.  And until he follows it out the door we are gonna be stuck here watching this ballclub tread the territory back and forth around .500 like it's Waiting for Godot  with rollover grounders to short and endless popups to the foul territory in front of the home dugout that go on longer than a performance of Satie's Vexations, and with far less excitement.

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"Hey Blue, check out my new Facebook page... it's right over there!"

I don't have the answers and I'm operating under no delusion that the sad predictability of the outcomes so far (themselves really an extension of last year's established dance with the break-even zone of .500, fashioned from the formula of incredible pitchers + equally as awful hitters = one mediocre cocktail) are somehow all entirely the fault of the manager.  As I said, this is a change (or series of changes) that needs to be intended to shake loose years of inertia at the clubhouse and dugout levels if it's to have a prayer of working and the performance (or at least the energy that informs and supplies it) is to measurably improve at all.  And I know it's unlikely to happen or if it does it'll just be that they won't pick up his option after this season, because that's how they do things in the Athletics' universe of one part "OMG" and one part Omertà.  I didn't want to come out all feral and call for the guy's head (even though I am sort of infamous for doing that in a public forum, whoops), but I've been watching baseball for my whole life and I've never felt in my bones that a manager needed to be replaced for the performance of the team to become unstuck from the muck of suck and a truck o'bad luck than I do this morning, and not just because of what transpired over the weekend, horrific as it was.  It's simple: as Oldham A might say, no offence -- the team doesn't really have one anyway, but that's another Doomsday post for another post-Rapture weekend -- but Geren must go for the Green and Gold to get its groove back.

Sorry for the ridiculous length of this, but it wasn't just something I could just toss out there with no attempt at embellishment.  Anyways,

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What do YOU think?

Comment 823 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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Extremely well done EN

I have constantly questioned the use of the bullpen, and too have felt that a change is long overdue, but Billy Beane not making the change due (probably) to their relationship, he has been reluctant to do so…unnaceptable by BB…

by mills16 on May 23, 2011 7:19 AM PDT reply actions  

I haven't like him like..ever

but he hasn’t been too bad this year, has he? Keeping the team afloat despite anemic offense. Haven’t seen too may times when I go crazy over his decisions. Don’t think he’s great, but tolerable for me this year unlike past years. He’s had a bit of bad luck with Fuentes with six losses! Maybe when Bailey comes back the A’s will be a tad better.

I’ve been overwhelmed and I’ve been underwhelmed. Can I ever just be whelmed?

by closetasfan on May 23, 2011 7:23 AM PDT reply actions  

The Fuentes situation is not bad luck; It's sheer stupidity.

He has a huge platoon split and can’t get decent righties out, let alone the premium ones.

As for the lefties, that’s who he’s supposed to get out, but on Friday, he couldn’t even do that, as Huff won the game with a single.

Fuentes should be a LOOGY/desperation long man.

Those extra inning situations were eminently winnable, and I’d’a rather taken the Ned Yost method and thrown the new callups into the fire, rather than put Fuentes out there to fail.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I did check that clip of Fuentes and he made a point about "Why bring people up if you're not going to use them?"

Well, they brought Devine up and he was used in back-to-back games for the first time this season, right away. He got through the second game without tooooo much trouble, so that’s good. But I had a feeling it wouldn’t be long before Geren used him like this. I just didn’t expect it to be right away.

Blevins was used and we’d rather not see him pitch.

FDLS just warmed up a little Saturday, but it seems he’s the one they brought up to just sit and watch. Look, if you’re stuck playing extra baseball in an NL park where you’ve already had to go to the bullpen a little early because of the situations that came up and the decisions that were made, you already had to give Purcey a long appearance already on Thursday with Ross getting hurt, AND you had to bring up a few relievers as an emergency because of it, they’ve all got to be used at some point. Geren can’t just keep sending the same guys out there over and over and expect it to work.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 23, 2011 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

If FDLS were some sucky DiNardo-esque filler, then I understand.

However, the idea of not wanting to “throw him to the wolves” is silly in this case, because FDLS has heat and he can get righthanders out, unlike Fuentes.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yep

And why not see what he can do there? It’s not like he’s Bobby Cramer, but it’s like he was being saved for a situation you’d expect to see Cramer in.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 23, 2011 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

You mean like a tie game where a he can give up a walkoff homer?

like Cramer did?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

In those deep extra-inning situations, you kinda gotta play it backwards.

Unless you have a good quality 6th starter you can reasonably trust to throw multiple scoreless innings, you shouldn’t put the long man or the worst man in the bullpen in a tie ballgame, ESPECIALLY on the road.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

If he's not ready to pitch in the bigs

then he shouldn’t be here and should be getting more appearances in Sacramento. If he is ready, then he should be used. But to use the “clsoer” who has pitched way too much in a tie game on the road – I’m not sure. Further, if Fuentes had gotten out of the inning and the A’s scored in the 12th – then would DLS come in for the save? That seems even less ideal for the first appearance.

by longtimeasfan on May 23, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I Want To See FDLS

And I want to see him soon. If he lives up to the hype: great. if he doesn’t: well……..

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

DeJesus

  Why sit him on Saturday when you know your facing a lefty Sunday and he will sit Sunday?

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

the worst thing that happened to the bullpen this year

is that Fuentes started the year off hot pitching to success far beyond his statistical history. Unfortunately, to a cretin like Geren, that meant Fuentes was totally infallible. Uck…what dumb-ass.

by oakballnack on May 23, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

A reasonable manager would have been suspicious of Fuentes from the beginning,

and maybe put him in enough games with a lead or behind a run to keep him from becoming a clubhouse cancer, but never in any important situations against righties, or premium lefties for that matter.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree wholeheartedly

Great post!

Geren has made countless errors, I laughed at your comment regarding how easy it is to manage, because on my blog I described it as “a kid playing Strat-O-Matic in Oroville could manage better”. It is mystifying how they continue on with him. Like the whole IBB to face the BETTER hitter strategy. I’ve been complaining about the bullpen usage since the first day of the season I think.

I think he manages by flashcards. Really, like it is so predictable what he is going to do. So pathetic. Constantly snatching defeat from the arms of victory.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 7:25 AM PDT reply actions  

I wish he WOULD.

They’re that bad.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 23, 2011 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Its a bit of both

Like he has the automatic decisions: like his use of Fuentes and Balfour and now sort of Wuertz. Then he has his like coin flip ones, like you are down four in the sixth: coin flip.

Pennington is up late in the game: CoJax or Sweeney?

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's my opinion that a manager who excels at bullpen management

NEVER has automatic decisions.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I will not purchase any products sponsored on A's broadcasts,

nor park in their parking lot nor actually PAY for a game (freebie tix don’t count)

until Geren is fired.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 7:37 AM PDT reply actions  

Nor will I!

But I live in Ohio, makes it easier.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sounds good to me

I’m in for the Geren boycott

by DrDoom on May 23, 2011 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, I think that those who do not choose to boycott home games

should AT LEAST take up the

Fi-re Ge-ren
clap clap
clap clap clap

chant

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

i can agree with this.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thrift stores, or buy something vintage on ebay.

The adjustabe mesh light green truckers’ cap from S/T 1982 would be pimpsauce.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Eh.

I think we should all go to games and make fire Geren signs. Rather than boycott, come out in full A’s regalia, show how much you care.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm okay with either idea...

Just as long as an obvious message is sent, either way.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

you have to make it known to them why you're boycotting.

or else they’ll think you just dont care anymore, which i dunno how much they’re interested in that.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here is the problem

  Time and time again he is out managed by the other manager. Good example is yesterday’s game. Bochy knows and everyone who follows the A’s Geren will not call a pitch out. Geren should have known Ford is running and that was the time to call a pitch out. Even every giant fan knew that Ford’s one job is to steal.
  Geren is not very intelligent by just listening to him talk and explain things. He puts the same lineup in every=day even if a player is struggling. The use of the bullpen was covered in the post so I will not go into that.
  When he over uses a player his excuse is they said they were able to pitch. Not a good excuse when the Buck factor comes into light and every ballplayer on the club knows that if you say you can’t play you will be benched or sent to the minors.
  Last its the team’s attitude where losing is no big deal. I am tired of the quote tomorrow is another day so what if we lost. When the rangers pitcher called the A’s out on lawyer ball and disrespected them there was no ticked off attitude just ok that’s all right. How can you cheer for a team that doesn’t care about winning?

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 7:41 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Agree, agree, agree

Mark Ellis’ use comes to mind. Here is a guy who is aging rapidly, has had injury problems, yet he’s played in all but one game this year and on Saturday hit as high as fifth. I realize he’s turning it around a bit as of late, but even at 100% he is never someone to hit fifth.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I realize it doesn't balance out completely,

but how many runs has he saved with his stellar defense?

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on May 23, 2011 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Many, many, many.

Especially with this particular rotation.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 23, 2011 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

This.

And much as I love him as a person and a player, I think this is an important objective measure of his value to the team.

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on May 23, 2011 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

So far this season he's saved enough runs to be...

0.0 WAR.

He’s replacement level even WITH his defense.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying Ellis shouldn't be played

But he should be getting days off. We give days off to Coco to everyone else practically, except Ellis. Even if Ellis was hitting .320 I think we’d need to give him days off.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

There is nobody else on the squan to fill in at 2B

Laroche has played there a bit and really looked horrible at second base. The game against the Rangers where he started at 2B was really pretty embarassing at times with how lost he looked. Plus, he’s really not hitting right now. I’d say bring up Weeks but if he’s only going to play once ever 5-10 games, not sure if I want that either.

by longtimeasfan on May 23, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

My thinking is that

You need to do it, even if you sacrifice on defense, cuz you dont want to lose Ellis. Seems theyre taxing him too much.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can Ellis play 3rd?

I mean, I believe he can certainly field the position, he is a true pro and can learn it. But is his arm good enough?

If so, I am happy to put him at 3rd and play Weeks at 2nd. Like right away.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have seen some pitch outs this year

granted they have not been called right, but to say he ever calls them is not correct.

"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne

by 94065 on May 23, 2011 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I missed that

  I have not seen him call one all year but I have missed a few games.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's not really true
Geren is not very intelligent by just listening to him talk and explain things. He puts the same lineup in every=day even if a player is struggling.

A’s have played 46 games in 2011 and used 35 different lineups

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 23, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's mostly true in certain instances, at least

For example, Barton ought to be moved down in the lineup for the time being.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 23, 2011 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's not true as far as it's not true that Geren puts the same lineup in every day

Which is what he said.

As far as not batting Barton second, he still does have second best OBP on the A’s, but that is a different story all together.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 23, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Better way to phrase it

  The position of players in the lineup never changes. Besides the normal outfield switch the usual suspects hit the same place in the lineup even if they are struggling or on a hot streak. Example. Pennington is always batting ninth even though he is a better situational hitter than your 8th or 7th hitter.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd totally bat Penny 7th in this lineup against righties.

I love his 8+ pitch AB’s against righties.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would be more radical on lineup

  Barton leads off since he is the best OBA with Pennington second as a good situational hitter and Coco third who gets the bat on the ball with Willingham 4th.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno about Barton first but...

I have thought despite his speed, perhaps Coco should be lower in the lineup.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lead off

  the problem is none of the players have very good OBA so with Barton you are addressing his strongest suit in walks.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah but

His OBP isn’t that much better than other guys (.328 to Willingham or Suzuki’s .319). I wonder if it is an issue of his pressing being higher in the order. I am a huge fan of Barton’s and think he is great but the results just aren’t there and his walking and walking aren’t really generating runs in that two spot and dont see it changing if he were in the one spot.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

More of default

  Willingham is your only power source and RBI man so he is needed in the fourth spot. Suzuki is more of a 7th type hitter just about average all the way around. DeJesus is the trouble in that he has always been a OBA guy but not this year. Would batting leadoff make him take more pitches and improve his OBA.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

sweeney 2nd, OBP 410

baron OBP 327.

btw… cojac OBP 330

sweeney doesn’t have the speed but probably no worse than barton and he is a smart/good baserunner

by heartstopper on May 24, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Which is actually the right move.

Credit where credit’s due. He doesn’t manage based on hot/cold streaks.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's true

but he says otherwise.

But my observations is that is true.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Barton is the least of our worries right now.....

Which is really sad, considering he is hitting .218. I don’t know what is going on w/our outfield……They are all in contract years they should be hitting the cover off the ball!

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

contract years mean NOTHING.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

even to Adrian Beltre?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the link Dan

I am trying to shed my ignorance on this topic……Key word Trying….

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

No problem.

The basic gist is that players can’t “turn it on” when it matters more, whether that’s being clutch or in a contract year.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Beltre's switch is his bald head.

Just rub it to see his Mr Hyde.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

espn did a thing recently too.

The rare cases of an extreme contract year just are more pronounced then the more common regular contract years. Look at Pujols damnit! He can sign for 300 million and he’s hitting like .230 or something. You really think a contract year motivates a player THAT much?

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

andruw Jones had a crappy contract year

got a huge contract and lo an behold, still sucked

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good example.....

To my mind the human condition would encourage better results for a ball-player about to enter the FA market. But I got nothing to back up this claim :)

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

a real good player is always motivated,

regardless of contract situation.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

The prospect of money doesn't always lead to better results in any aspect of life though.

It is kind of counter-intuitive, but offering monetized incentives can actually decrease performance. Check this out: video.

The construct of baseball is a bit different than what’s going on in the video, but in terms of “the human condition,” the prospect of more money isn’t a great way to get better results.

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on May 23, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Baseball Prospectus came to the precisely opposite conclusion

in “Baseball Between the Numbers.” I think you could say the effect is not huge, but BP did find a statistically significant effect.

by swatnick on May 23, 2011 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I kind of get the sense that the media is starting to get a little more behind the question of Geren getting fired. Of course Slusser is covering hockey which makes sense. At some point I think Billy is going to have to at least answer some questions about it. Of course he will say that it isn’t Gerens fault. It is Beltre and Berkmans Fualt for not taking our money.
Billy usually only makes moves when he thinks two things: We can win or we cant.
There usually is no in between for him.
If he thinks we can win he is probably pretty upset right now, but I can’t picture him firing Geren. If he did, he may rehire him a couple days later.

by Slide Giambi on May 23, 2011 7:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Thank You

It’s nice reading posts from like-minded people. I cried foul when Geren first got promoted. We need look no further than Texas to see the mistake of that hire. Beyond that, allow me a little space to vent for myself.

Daric Barton Sucks. Why the hell are we asking Carter to learn a new position. You telling me Chris can’t hit .200 with zero homers. You think he’ll have a lot more than six, SIX, errors?!

Yeah, I’m in panic mode. Getting your ass handed to you by the lame-ass Giants will do that to me. We can’t just sit here and keep taking this nonsense, much like we’re calling for the head of Geren (yeah, I’ll call for it. The time for complacency is over, buddy-boy!)

Mark Ellis needs to be shown the door. I don’t care how good of fielder he is. .200 is .200, and we have two guys currently hitting well over .300 in Sacto who play a fine second base.

Sweeney needs to play. He’s a terrific fielder, and he’s the only guy on the team hitting over .300. I don’t wanna see DeJesus anymore until the rapture actually comes.

Yeah, Kouz sucks. Too bad we don’t have a young third baseman to take his place. Seems like we did though…Wallace, was his last name I think. That’s right, he plays for Houston now. Wonder how he’s doing….oh no. NO! Don’t look.

This team lacks credibility all over…top to bottom.

by dcrubin on May 23, 2011 7:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Losing to Giants is losing to a good team

I don’t have a problem with losing to the Giants (I have a problem losing to anyone, my point being they are a very good team) so much as I have a problem with losign games we didn’t need to lose and losing them in the manner that we did. We lost the games on Friday and Sunday purely because of mismanaging. Saturday we could’ve done better perhaps with better managing but you run into good pitching like Lincecum and you can’t beat it, thats that.

I don’t agree with benching Barton, but I do think he needs to be moved down in the lineup. His OBP is still great. But like emporer said, he is seemingly engaged in a “how close a pitch can i take” game that needs to end.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Too close

The games were too close; we should have trampled them. Geren handed those games to SF, no matter how “good” they are. Again and again they get achingly close and then brash stupidity rears its ugly head. A friend was talking about a fan of the opposing team saying to an A’s fan “wow, your manager is a real liability, eh?” Get him out. He’s made enough money losing, give someone else a shot. Maybe he could manage a McDonald’s better. Just tell me which McDonald’s so I can avoid it, please.

Don't move my team. Puh-lease?

by Kovu on May 23, 2011 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't agree that Giants are a very good team.

They have very good starting pitching just like us. But, they also struggle a lot offensively and I think many, not all, but many of their players are overrated because of the playoffs last year. That’s what has me so pissed off right now – all of Northern California is clamoring again over the Giants because of this sweep – yet they won two games by a run in the extra innings. I expected to lose the Saturday game because the A’s have a hard time against Vogelsong so can’t expect them to do well against Lincecum – but looking at the teams and even looking at the games – the A’s weren’t overmatched at all – they were just outmanaged and outplayed by enough to relate to close losses. And that is maddening. If the A’s get crushed with a team like the firepower of the Yankees or Phillies, I’d be upset, but not as much as losing games for stupid reasons to a team like the Giants! And now I, and all the rest of the A’s fans have to hear shit as if the Giants are so effing great.

The A’s have been frustrating for awhile – but I haven’t been as frustrated as I was after this weekend about the A’s in awhile.

by longtimeasfan on May 23, 2011 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

We're saying the same thing though

The A’s didn’t get crushed. They lost two games in extra innings and one 3-0 against an exceptional pitcher. I relaly didn’t go into this series expecting the A’s to win 8-1, 6-0 etc. I think the Giants are a very good team, you don’t win the World Series without it, they certainly aren’t perfect, but they are strong their offense is stronger than ours and not much different than that of the Phillies whom I suppose a lot of people would call very good teams (and you yourself did) – look at the numbers not that different. But these close games are maddening, because I think we lost these games not because of a talent-gap but because of a managerial gap.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wallace

He plays 1B (not 3B). Over 547 PA’s in Houston he’s OPS’d .724. Daric Barton has a career OPS of .750. Wallace will get figured out in Houston. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t fall off quite a bit in the 2nd Half of season.

by Colorado Fan on May 23, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Houston factor

  Wallace would be a 270 hitter in Oakland probably less OBA and a little more power than Barton and much worse defense. I blame Barton struggles on hitting coach Perry who has tried to change his hitting style to pull more balls.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Either Perry or Barton

  Perry tried changing the players approach the first time in 2006 so it would not surprise me he did it again. Barton will never hit for power which is why he struggles when he tries to pull the ball.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I believe he was lamenting having Kouz over Wallace, even if he is playing 1b right now

"If anyone needs me, I'll be watching St Elmo's Fire since that is on and this was crap." -Kyli

by IChaseFrisbees on May 23, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

OK

Repeat with me:

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 23, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Wallace is a butcher at 3rd

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

What I'm wondering is how worse than Kouz would he be, and how much better would his bat be?

"If anyone needs me, I'll be watching St Elmo's Fire since that is on and this was crap." -Kyli

by IChaseFrisbees on May 23, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Without regard towards performance, we have team formula that works with our ballpark.

Our strength is in pitching and defense, with offense coming in 3rd. Wallace’s poor defense will affect the pitching staff far more than his offensive abilities will help.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right, but that's assuming Kouz's defense is better than Wallace's, which is what I'm wondering.

"If anyone needs me, I'll be watching St Elmo's Fire since that is on and this was crap." -Kyli

by IChaseFrisbees on May 23, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

you mean

“top to bottom LINE!”

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Geren

He won’t be managing this team from 2012 – 2015, so why not get rid of him now. From a psychological standpoint, the Core of the Team could needs to be Shook. Maybe it will finally wake up the bats, knowing that it was them who got the manager fired and hay “Wwe’re going to do something about it this time. We are going to rally around our new manager and win some games.”

2 years ago on May 29th 2009, Jim Tracy was hired to be the new manager of the Colorado Rockies. On May 29, 2009, Clint Hurdle was fired after compiling an 18–28 record, and Tracy was named to replace him. Tracy led the Rockies to the postseason for the second time in three years, with a 74–42 (.638) record since taking over as manager, season record of 92–70 (.568) which is a franchise record.

“Shake it up, oo-oo
Shake it up, yeah yeah
Shake it up, oo-oo
Shake it up”
- The Cars

by Colorado Fan on May 23, 2011 7:49 AM PDT reply actions  

We can hope

  I would not be surprised that Beane brings Geren back next year. Using the excuses that nobody hit, Braden and Ross injury, Bailey injury, and ect… Just wonder what Geren has on Beane.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who would take over

in both ways

what good manager is available now?
and
what good manager would actually take the job?

by MobiusKlein on May 23, 2011 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would hire Greg Maddux if he would even consider taking the job.

Fuck experience in this particular case. ’cuz Maddux is a genius.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Times like this when I wish Rickey had a couple years experience as a head coach in the minor leagues.

I don’t know how much of his baseball experience would translate over well to coaching, but I bet the players would love to play for him.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

He should be on the staff right now

Not as a manager bu as some sort of a coach, in my opinion. This team is seriously missing any type of veteran leadership and anyone holding the players accountable. I’m not sure there is anyone on the roster right now with the track record or respect to really take on this role – so I think that Rickey would be great for it.

by longtimeasfan on May 23, 2011 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

For reals, yo!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on May 23, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah

I am cool with all of that…I can handle myself just fine and it’s fun. But there are alot of Giant Assholes there that kind of make it suck for the other good natured Giant fans. Fortunately for me, I have the magical “you’re cut off M@#$%^&r” wand so most of them end up playing nice after awhile. Still had to 86 a good 20-25 people this weekend. No biggie….I just was so disgusted with our team losing the way we did and knowing we could have taken 2 out of 3 from those bastards!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on May 23, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ouch. I feel the sting.

I did not have the time
I did not have the nerve
To ask you how you feel
Is this what you deserve

I’ll just suck up now and say “No, it isn’t.”

Applaudable post!
IMHO there aren’t a lot of people on SB baseball fansites flashing the ability to entertain with their writing.
You folks are blessed.

Sincerely wishing you find happy resolution. Ain’t no hate here.
One more thing before I leave you to your machinations…while Coco might be an interesting choice as manager (Rickey sure would be!) he’s a terrible choice for designated driver.
(I live in the metro Phoenix area. Bad Coco.)

Nomadic baseball fan, with no agenda other than observation/conversation/mass confusion/mass consumption. And annoying 09.

Prosecutor: "Jesus Christ, did ANYBODY tell the truth to the grand jury?"
Barry Bonds: "I did."
Prosecutor: "GAH!"

by victor frankenstein on May 23, 2011 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

just bring up the manager from AAA

we don’t need a big name, we just need someone with a pulse

by Oaktown Shutout on May 23, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Darren Bush would do just fine.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll take your word on his abilities.

I don’t know enough about him. At the time of Geren’s hire, I would have picked Tony before Bobo.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know enough about him either, to be fair, but I like the interviews I've read.

and he hasn’t done anything to piss me off in the games I’ve attended or listened to.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh, I guess I do remember something about that

that’s too bad

I guess he was really broken up about Brett Wallace

by Oaktown Shutout on May 23, 2011 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno if it's the same for baseball as it is for football.

but generally, studies have shown that the reason new managers/coaches seem to do so well is that the team isn’t actually as bad as they were playing, so things just averaged out. Dunno if i would buy that.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Expectations for a manager replacement are on a case-by-case scenario.

In aggregate, things average out, but in this particular situation, almost anyone is an upgrade, even if merely for purposes of boosting clubhouse morale.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am totally with you CF!

And so this only makes it worse, knowing that Beane made up with Macha before the 2006 season, Macha takes the team to the AL Championship Series, then gets fired because “the players with influence” didn’t like him. But Bob Geren hasn’t accomplished shit with this team in 5 years and he’s still here? hat’s beyond lunacy!

As I said last year, I heard it from someone on the inside that

“lots of the guys on the club don’t really care for Geren (a few really just can’t stand him) at all and have questioned him behind closed doors”…..

I had to work all weekend for the BB Series and there were many A’s fans at the ballpark but it made me sick to my stomach after yesterday knowing, just fucking knowing that Geren was going to find a way to lose this game! And to have to listen to all of that “Giants own the A’s!” bullshit when in reality it’s just bad managing from the top to bottom.

I think we need to flood CT’s show today and get everyone going on getting Bobo on the next flight to Siberia…..fucking awesome post Emperor. You schooled it today, Haas!

~FIRE BOB GEREN NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

M-Rod

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on May 23, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

When Rosales comes back I would like to see DFA Kouz and Laroche, and bring up Cardenas or Weeks

by Slide Giambi on May 23, 2011 7:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Rosales should start

  Rosales is a better hit than either Kouz or LaRouche. Defensively Rosales is solid but will Geren give up his utility guy to improve the lineup is the question?

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rosales has to hit the sh!t out of the ball in Sac on his rehab assignment first.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

agree

  still about 3 weeks away from coming back.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

3 weeks?

I would say 3 months is more accurate. He was cleared physically less than 2 weeks ago, no way he is ready to go.

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

2 weeks is what Rosales said last week

  You know he is wanting to play now. 3 weeks is the best case

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rosales is exactly the type of player this team needs at the moment

Love to see some of his hustle wear off on some of the other players

by Oaktown Shutout on May 23, 2011 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hear that sound? It's the A's potential being let off like steam...

I attended a game several weeks ago when Geren made a particularly moronic choice and a ten-year-old kid looked over at his dad and said “Dad, what is Geren doing?” Ten to one that ten-year-old does a far better job as a WEEKEND VOLUNTEER. I want to make six figures or more for doing HORRIBLY, sure! If he was a friggin’ crossing guard we wouldn’t need schools! All the kids would be road pizza! Wolff, Beane, etc. — sh*t or get off the damned pot!

Don't move my team. Puh-lease?

by Kovu on May 23, 2011 7:59 AM PDT reply actions  

I see posts like this

and the huge chain of comments afterwards, and I ask myself if Beane even owns a computer. Or, if he has AN blocked.

To me, letting Geren go is absolutely critical. Installing a manager with a clue would be a fantastic idea.

It would be SO UNCONSCIONABLY STUPID to waste this team’s stellar pitching staff by mismanagement and Barton hitting 2nd.

Come ON, guys.

by Johnny Bravo on May 23, 2011 8:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Beane doesn't care about fan post

  Beane has made excuses in the past for Geren and it will continue. The more hope is Wolfe will do something about it or have a sit down talk with Beane about Geren.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

He won't. Beane runs the baseball operations.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just What I Needed EN!

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 8:20 AM PDT reply actions  

second that.

I needed someone who’s frustration boiled over into a coherent set of words.

If this was about the offense, and not Geren, and about cutting Kouz and Ellis, I would have been fine with that as well, since it was so well written and matched my mood after this series.

5 in a row? with our pitching? That is…

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just don't see the point

in “re-stocking” the offense and bullpen in the off season, only to sit back and watch them score 3 runs a week.

If you have half of the formula, why not try to make it worthwhile? I mean, seriously.

by Johnny Bravo on May 23, 2011 8:28 AM PDT reply actions  

Fire.Geren.Now.

The manager needs to inspire the fan base as well as do a good job with the team. If he is an excellent manager and a bad dude, or a mediocre Manager but a good dude, you can give him a little leeway. But a bad manager and universally reviled by the fans from Day One? That is so freakin bad that I can’t figure out why Beane would do it.

Geren’s presence is what makes me think the “trying to lose” conspiracy theory might be real. It’s hard to imagine any other situation where his hiring and continued employment make sense.

Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell

by fridaynightfan on May 23, 2011 8:36 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Everyone complains about in-game decisions

I’ve been around long enough to know that every manager will suck to a percentage of any team’s fan base. The most successful managers out there - guys like Ron Washington, Mike Scioscia, Jim Leyland -- are raked over the coals by the stat guys on a regular basis for their offensive moves. Bullpen mismanagement sits as the cornerstone of complaint nearly everywhere, including over in San Francisco.

While it’s true that Geren’s mismanagement has been particularlly egregious - if a reliever is over-tired he shouldn’t be pitching, and Fuentes clearly needed a rest; Geren’s knowledge of National League play is, and has been, extremely dubious; his line-up decisions are frequently incomprehensible - that, to me, isn’t the real problem.

EN, though, did nail the real problem: “The soporific play by a team that often looks perennially underprepared and uninspired.” This is no longer an inexperienced team. The mistakes made by people who have been around for a while — Barton, Kouzmanoff, Suzuki — shouldn’t be happening. Gallego’s third base work is awful: he’s either too conservative or he sends people who don’t have a chance. Gerald Perry’s work is awful: everyone is hitting under his potential. Whoever is working with the fielders is awful: the prevent doubles defense is ridiculous, people are throwing to first base when a double play is likely. Andy LaRoche has consistently made bad decisions, as has Kouzmanoff, and as did Adam Kennedy when he was on the team. This goes back a while. Luckily the coaches appear to leave Mark Ellis alone, and the difference is striking: he doesn’t make bad decisions.

But it all comes back to Geren, and beyond that, to Beane. It seems clear to me that the team is waiting for Rosales to come back before making any serious moves amongst position players. But maybe it’s time to make serious moves in the coaching staff: Geren and Perry must go now, and most probably Gallego as well.

by richwol1 on May 23, 2011 8:51 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Would you promote Skinner to manage, or hire from outside?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know the personalities involved...

…and it would all depend on the personalities at this point. The problem is that you’ve got a great pitching coach and you want to have someone who’ll work with him.

by richwol1 on May 23, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Promote from with in for now

  If you fire Geren the best thing for the team is to promote from the minors to run the team till the end of the season and then decide on who should manage. The search should not be a spur of the moment thing.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do like Darren Bush a lot, and would have no problem with him managing the A's.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Geren should not have been hired, however,since he was hired, he should never have lasted past the "Holliday Season" debacle.

His lineup mismanagement that season was pitiful at best. I remember Fosse remarking that Geren batting Sweeney in 5 different spots within a 1 week period could do nothing but screwup Ryan’s approach. The veterans publically rebucked Geren’s management skills that year, and they were right. This year, BB signed enough bullpen arms, that any competent manager should have been able to use situational pitcihing blindfolded. As I’ve said before, Geren is a reactionary manager, rather than a preparatory one. In my opinion, he is still managing as if he were running a AAA team, developing players, instead of using his roster to win games. He is the wrong man for this role, no matter what the roster is.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 8:56 AM PDT reply actions   5 recs

Well said.

This thread is definitely making me feel better. I scratched my head in disbelief of Geren’s various “moves” so many times Friday night that I couldnt bear to watch Saturday- I just checked the score periodically. By Sunday when the A’s took a 2 run lead, my first thought was “Great. These are just the types of games the Giants like to win.” By the time they tied it and Geren brought Fuentes in, I just turned it off.

I can’t remember a time when I felt like the A’s had no chance against the Giants, but I certainly did before this series started. I’m tired of Geren’s antics. I want our team to have some much needed chemistry, and getting rid of Geren just might be the way to regain that.

Free Ryan Sweeney!

by popcornjames on May 23, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was anyone else here around in 1986?

Jackie Moore…Tony LaRussa.

I dont really need to say anything more than that, do I?

by BigJ7489 on May 23, 2011 9:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Jackie Moore may have been WORSE than Geren.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Boros was worse than Geren.

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.

by the_rozeboom on May 23, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Boros is a little too early for me, but I can believe it.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Too Bad Billy Martin is dead.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on May 23, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, maybe he can manage from the afterlife.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on May 23, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Billy Martin's Afterlife Bar & Grill.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Another puzzling thing

  Our AAA teams have not been over loaded with talent the last few years but has a great record at the end of the season and makes the playoffs. Are we missing our best managers playing them at AAA?

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 9:03 AM PDT reply actions  

The A's organizations stocks the RiverCats with AAAA guys.

Everyone else in the PCL South stocks their AAA teams with younger guys, for the most part.

Works for me. I like being the Yankees of the minor leagues.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hehehe

That’s because you live close enough to watch a lot of the ’Cat’s games. I really hate that the Gnats’ AAA team is in Fresno. It makes living around their fans unbearable.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

the hitting goes

  Funny how they can hit the ball in AAA and no problems with homeruns but once they come to Oakland it is gone. Maybe it is because Geren has them sit on the bench when they come up. Other than Carter almost all A’s prospects seem to come up and bench.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Previous managers....

Would do two things: Newcomers would immediately be put in a game; and pitchers who warmed up would (except those warming up as insurance in the 9th) always be put in a game. There were no wasted warm-ups, and no newbies would sit on the bench hoping for a shot.

by richwol1 on May 23, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

for succintness

Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell

by fridaynightfan on May 23, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like your last point.

Geren’s seeming acceptance of mediocrity, especially in his public statements, is infuriating to me. He doesn’t need to be an “Ozzie” all the time, but once in a while, it would show the team that he isn’t satisfied with their production.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

agree with all the above...

Geren’s obvious complete disregard for the media (and by implication the people who listen to the baseball media – the fans) is yet another reason he needs to go.

Geren’s interviews and public statements have been uninspiring at best, and completely dettached from reality at worst. He offers no real insight into what’s going on within the organization, shows no self awareness around possible wrong moves he’s made, takes responsibility for nothing, is oblivious to the way other managers use the media to motivate to send messages to players, and always seems like having anything to do with the press is a chore. If his personna in the club house is the same as it is in public then no wonder the team lacks any kind of spark of inspiration or leadership.

by As_Reb on May 23, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

And I think this is one the biggest problems with him.

This is a fairly young team and Geren’s influence over the culture of this clubhouse is showing. The team looks dull and uninspired, and has looked that way ever since Geren took the reins. His personality just does not bode well for a manager.

by SneakyBacon on May 23, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's a fine minor league manager, unworried about winning, and all about teaching.

Fire him, then rehire him in a year or two to work with minor leaguers where he belongs.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

He could be “re-assigned within the organization”. Advance scouting or whatever. Just get him off the wheel.

"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto

by EddieVegas_NRAF on May 23, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

Plus, he uses this blandness to deflect criticism of his decisions. I have yet to hear him accept responsibility for a managerial blunder.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

A complete inability to utilize and understand splits

You kind of said it but I think it needs to be emphatically stated

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on May 23, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Balfour in the 8th and Fuentes 9th no matter what thing

is one of the most annoying things Geren does.

Nate fuckin Schierholtz notwithstanding, Balfour is usually VERY effective, whereas Fuentes seems to always walk the leadoff batter on 5 pitches.

Balfour should have been given the ball more often in the 9th so far this year, ESPECIALLY if he throws a 7-pitch 8th.

by Johnny Bravo on May 23, 2011 9:08 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

I'd trust Ziegler in a righty-heavy inning, NO MATTER WHAT INNING.

If guys in the bullpen need roles to keep sane, then they should have roles…. not based on inning, but based on situation.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just to add to that sentiment

Joey Devine looked pretty filthy over the weekend and I would have no problem giving him the ball in the 9th inning as an option, either.

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on May 23, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

He'd better not.

Devine is my short-term favorite RiverCat for the year, as opposed to my long-term favorite, Matt Carson, whom I hope gets another cup of coffee after we win the division or get mathematically eliminated, whichever comes first.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

And Ziegler has experience closing

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on May 23, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Balfour was a bad pitch

  Fuentes have not done well at all in extra innings and should be the last guy called on to start a inning in extra so why doesn’t Geren see it that way.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

OT

Twins will trade Kevin Slowey

Can’t hurt, right?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 9:24 AM PDT reply actions  

No need to overpay

  Slowely is no better than what the A’s have. Twins still want a prospect unless we can send Kouz in the deal.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pitching is the least of our problems.

Getting rid of our best fielding 3rd baseman, while we have no competent replacement, probably isn’t the best move.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he's better than Outman or Moscoso

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh crap, we need to jump on that.

Has a penchant for giving up some HRs, and he doesn’t K all that many, but he walks NOBODY, like at Cliff Lee levels. He’s better than Outman and whoever we’re throwing at the 5th spot, that’s for sure.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I bet they would take a couple AA or A guys

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

If we can get him painlessly, then I'm all for it.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt the Twins are that stupid.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt the Twins are that stupid.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Losing teams don't need guys like him

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

And for all the reasons you just outlined, Slowey is beautifully matched to the Coliseum.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 23, 2011 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

who would you give up?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think they have to trade the entire farm this year for upgrades. Right now. Push all in.

They have to win now, because they can’t contend next year.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Okay, but we're not trading Taylor + Weeks for Kevin Slowey

Who do we give up for him?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh in fair and equitable value?

Sogard? + a Blevins/Smyth?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

every day of the week.

and twice on Sundays.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Done

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was easy!

Now let’s work on that pesky “manager” problem…

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe more then Sogard Blevins and Smyth?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sogard. Hmm....

Small white dude. Infielder…

Look at Sogard. Now look at Nick Punto. Look at Sogard again. Now back to Punto. Now Sogard.

HOLY SHIT THE TWINS WOULD TOTALLY DO THAT.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

why not?

i feel like next year they actually might have a better shot.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

When they have no LF CF 2B 3B or DH?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

The new guys will hit some, but they're butchers in the field.

The free agent market is total crap, and the Rangers’ minor league system is about to deliver even more love to the big club.

I see Texas winning 3-4 straight division titles, unless the A’s front office fires Geren, and then starts burning the candle at both ends to acquire some help for 2011 and prepare for the upcoming teardown and rebuild.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously, some of the current players will be re-signed

And Carter will either hit and be up to DH, or we’ll find an aging DH.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're saying we can't resign anyone?

Can’t resign one of Coco/DeJesus/Willingham/Jackson? Weeks, Cardenas, Taylor, and Carter all have no chance of making the club?

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you really want to resign any of those players?

I don’t really and they have to want to be resigned.

How much value are you looking at getting next year from those players?
Carter 2 WAR DH?
Cardenas doesn’t have a position.
I don’t expect Weeks to play 120 games.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Crisp is the only one I might consider,

but I likely wouldn’t re-sign him.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would want to resign Coco, and maybe jackson as a backup OF.

Are we getting any more value out of our DH this season? Cardenas does, it’s second, and it looks like he actually could play left. And what time weeks misses could be filled in by either Rosales or Sogard, who once upon a time was a lock to be a major league starting second baseman.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

How much money over how many years are we giving CoCo?

Cardenas cant hit enough to be a MLB LFer
Rosales and Sogard are not starting MLers.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not our money, and who else would the a's spend it on? as previously stated, weak FA class.

Why do you have to hit a certain amount to be a LF? IIRC Cardenas projects to be a .300+ hitter. You may be right, but they’re not bad fill in options.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

LF is a stiff, stiff positional adjustment.

To succeed as a LFer, you need to hit really really well. Hitting like a 2Bman won’t cut it.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cardenas still has progress to make.

I’m not as bearish on Sogard as you are. He makes the routine plays at 2B and is pretty good on the pivot. Sometimes, he needs to not make the throw and just eat the ball… he tries too hard to get the double play and throws the ball away.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

No if he fails now, he goes back down to AAA, and then

when he’s called up next time he fucking RAKES.

That’s his thing. Weird, but true.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is there a time limit on this?

Cos otherwise we should call him up today, send him down tomorrow, then call him back up on Wednesday.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

and play him where?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Anywhere? Our batting order kind of sucks.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Third.

The dude was a 2B in the Philly system. I don’t see why 3B is such an issue.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he scores or drives in a run a game,

it’ll make up for the two doubles down the line he’ll give up every game.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Scouts say it is.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do it anyway.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Id just prefer to blow the whole thing up.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know you would.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

A Crisp Contract

Would have to have some level of incentives for me to feel comfortable with it with his injury history. Problem is a bigger budget team could probably step in and give him more guaranteed money….Of course we seem to have no internal options for CF next year though, so this could be a situation where we overpay :(

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on May 23, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

sweeney can play cf

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

With his knees?

You think they’d make him an every day CF?

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on May 23, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he can yes.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree, dfa.

This is why I’m ok with the team bringing him back to strength slowly this year. If we don’t sign Coco/Josh/David for 2012, Ryan will be ready to roll.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

We are likely in the same position next year as we are this year

We could resign the same guys, but they are sucking so how would we be worse off?

We will sign some of them. We will bring up a few guys. And we will sign a couple new guys that look good on paper but end up playing worse than expected. Our pitching will be great and keep us in the hunt but in the end, we will come up short again because Bob Geren isn’t good enough to squeek out a few more wins to put us over the hump.

by DrDoom on May 23, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

DFA may be the biggest pessimist on the site, and I'm one of the bigger optimists, but WE BOTH AGREE on the following:
They have to win now, because they can’t contend next year.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Can't"

Is a strong word. Perhaps the peak of the current rebuild has 1-2 years of viability left?

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is more along the lines of what I think.

Unless, of course, the stadium issue is resolved and the ground is broken somewhere. Then they might be able to fork over more money for better players and avoid a rebuild so soon.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looks that way at the moment

Considering our best 3 pitchers gave up 1 earned run each and we lost and unless the offense turns around then we will be dropping more than we win. It’s that obvious. I am only guessing but Geren and his managing of the pitching (pen) and errors has already cost us half a dozen wins.

The only way we beat Weaver and Haren is if they are both horribly off so that their pitches hit our bats about 15 times a game.

I am thinking Outman is going to go like 4 or 5 innings and give up 4 or 5 runs with a ferw too many walks in there. If he can go 5 innings and give up 3 or less then that is good enough for him at this stage.

 We cannot expect too much out of him. Anything less as far as giving up runs is a bonus.

by Trainman on May 23, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Outman's been pitching better with each start, and the Angels' offense is terrible.

I think Outman will go 5 or 6, giving up 2 runs, maybe 3.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kendrick should be out today.

And i think for Tuesday and maybe Wed. (other than for PHing I think)

by sums95 on May 23, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not that these guys are particularly studly,

but next year we’re gonna be without Ellis, Willingham, DeJesus, Matsui, Crisp, and likely LaRoche. Kouzmanoff and Jackson are no sure things to be here next year, either.

Even if the new guys come up and hit their share, Weeks, Cardenas, and Carter will all be defensive downgrades when they’re in the field.

Taylor’s no sure thing, and the studly question marks with big numbers (Mitchell & Miller) are old for their levels and it’s likely that they won’t be studly if they get any playing time in MLB.

Green gets hurt a lot. Stassi has a long way to go. Choice is still a couple of years away.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

You realize that Mitchell is 26 and in AA?

Its like putting me in a HS Novice debate tournament.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I put Mitchell's chances of doing anything significant at the MLB level at about 2%

Miller, maybe 5%.

I emotionally interpret those percentages positively enough that I come off as slightly pessimistic on their chances as opposed to hardcore pessimistic.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that if he stays, he'll put up 0.x WAR next year or worse.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude.

Beane is a turd because he didn’t cut Ellis after a 3.2 WAR year where he was the sixth best hitter in the majors in September?

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

so you're saying we should put him on the 60 day DL

and bring him back for September

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll put money on Willingham being re-signed unless he blows out a knee

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well that kinda sucks.

He’s just gonna be old and overpaid, even if he does end up hitting 20 dingers and OPSing .750 this year.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

3 years + $24M

That’s seems reasonable. He’s getting $5+ this year, anyway.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not really qualified to argue Willingham on a statistical level,

and it’s not quite June either,

but I’m kinda down on Willingham right now. I’m not impressed. He has no range in LF, and I expected a lot more out of his bat than we’ve seen so far.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Barring those potential switch-ups in draft compensation...

Is Willingham expected to gather some picks if he leaves?

My son!
Man of the Crazy Sink.
Also related to a certain GasCan.
I'M A GIRL

by dregarx on May 23, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

hes a bubble.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or maybe more

Despite his shortcomings, he’s currently our best hitter and not re-signing him next year (unless we manage a ZOMG f-in A-trade to get a real hitter) wouldn’t be that smart.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you really want to commit 4/32 to willingham?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think he gets 4 years

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

why not?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

for the same reasons you don't want him re-signed

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hes the best on the market.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only if that's 32 dollars, total.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

.750 is a huge down year from him.

Assuming he plays like his career numbers from here on out, a total .800 OPS year is a fair bet.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I assume nothing.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Willingham could very well be traded at the deadline

I would think he would be one of our most attractive guys for contenders assuming we’re reasonably out of it…

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on May 23, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see why next year will be any different from this year

If we want, we could resign all the same players or reasonable facimiles. Is it really so terrible if we lose Kouz or Ellis? We can field a similarly capable outfield without too much effort… it’s not exciting but I don’t see why it’s any worse than what we have right now.

by DrDoom on May 23, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

The real question is "Does Billy want to win?"

If Billy wants to win, then the coaching staff must change. The A’s will not win with Geren at the helm. That has already been proven.

So is Billy willing to damage his friendship to be the GM of a winning team? Or is he happy with status quo—the money will still be rolling in through revenue sharing.

Billy needs to hire a manager who will get the opportunity to manage without being second guessed by Billy. Billy needs to hire a manager and then step back and let him manage. The players must have faith in that guy. I don’t think any of them have faith in Geren—they have seen him make too many ridiculous decisions. I just don’t think he has a very high baseball IQ in game situations. The players think he is a fool, and it is hard to play for someone like that.

Please Billy, I want a winning team. A winning team will attract better players—and maybe even a few more fans in the stands.

by oaklandcrazy on May 23, 2011 9:28 AM PDT reply actions  

BB and Lew don't want to win ..

they are more interested in the next condo deal and moving the team. The ownership reminds me of the movie Major League.

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

There aren't gonna be any more condo deals.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, this is just wrong.

If condo deals were possible, we’d be watching a stadium groundbreaking in Fremont this summer.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, I read it the first time you posted it.

The hotel market is turning around, the properties are selling. What’s the problem?

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now, let me say first I haven't read it

nor do I care to, but I am going to say $0.

what do i win?

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

He (probably) will spend money on a new stadium, because he views that as an investment.

He definitely won’t on exorbitant player salaries in a stadium where the attendance can’t justify it.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's my point ..

A new stadium doesn’t necessarily mean you are going to have an awesome team, look at the D-backs, pretty much a new ballpark but they get low attendance.

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

But a new ballpark will generate new revenue, which can then be used to get better players,

which should lead to a better team, and sustained attendance when the new ballpark effect wears off in 10 years.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree with this assertion.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

You said this in the lounge too.

What makes you claim this? Given that the large majority of new stadiums lead to increased attendance and revenue for 5-10 years after opening, I’m curious why you think this wouldn’t be the case for the A’s.

So far I haven’t seen you say much beyond “I don’t agree.” Is that just an opinion, or do you have reasons behind it?

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on May 23, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's why we signed Matsui ...

So we can sell more A’s jersey’s oversea’s … The guy doesn’t even start now …

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, he's a DH. We just played in an NL park.

There wasn’t really much room for him in the lineup, since his spot was taken up by, you know, the pitcher.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also, he doesn't do much of the H really anymore.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

One would think that getting off of heroin would HELP his reaction times.

But, alas…

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

he should be a spot player now, as far as I'm comcerned

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Matsui is a good ballplayer..

he’s just surrounded by slap hitters ..

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

which have nothing at all to do with how HE hits.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

It sure does ...

he will consistently get horrible pitches to swing at cause nobody hitting behind him has no respect, they will pitch around him.

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

This has been refuted.

repeatedly.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's old and his bat is slow

He had his final moment of glory with the walk-off against Texas. I hope he gets less than 150 ABs for the rest of the year.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Take a look at his splits from last year

1st/2nd half ones. I know SSS but it still is worth noting.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know he's a DH

but there is no protection for him in the lineup and he will see nothing but breaking balls, he’s only good for selling jersey’s ..

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

dudes a major league ball player

I am sure he brings his own protection

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tell that to the Mets !!

New ballpark and they still suck !!

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, sure. It's not a guarantee.

However, I think Beane and Co could pull off a winner with the same ideas they’ve been using, only more money to throw at the holes.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's the payroll going back to 2000:

    * 2011: $ 67,094,000
    * 2010: $ 58,304,900
    * 2009: $ 62,310,000
    * 2008: $ 47,967,126
    * 2007: $ 79,366,940
    * 2006: $ 62,242,079
    * 2005: $ 55,425,762
    * 2004: $ 59,425,667
    * 2003: $ 50,260,834
    * 2002: $ 40,004,167
    * 2001: $ 33,810,750
    * 2000: $ 32,121,833

Now, tell me which years Wolff and Fisher owned the team?

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

They need to spend more ..

Thats how baseball is run these days ..

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

When you spend more than is being made, you end up not having a team.

There is a reason the Yankees can spend $200M+ each year. They’re bringing in more than that.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Correct ..

Then after we win a WS after going bankrupt we can get new owners who want to stay in Oakland.

by joecooley on May 23, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

hold the phone!

so I can buy the A’s, spend millions of my own dollars, go bankrupt, then sell!

Sign me up!

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

You have to have millions to buy the A's first.

Wait a minute. If AN pools it’s collective savings……..we’d still be about $365m short.

Drat and double drat.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was cheap.

If he did well, then great signing. If he stays hurt? No big deal.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would have signed for league minimum.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really I just want to have a fangraphs page.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

lost a bet.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

yup

can’t win if you don’t pay

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is indeed true, EN
I swear the way he burns the ‘pen, you wonder if he’s saving anything for September… or if maybe to him this is September and he feels somehow under the gun to win right now, lest he be relieved of his duties.

It’s no secret this is his option year.

That said, while the management of bullpen has been egregious, let’s not escape the fact that Balfour completely missed his spot and put it in Schierholz’s wheelhouse. It was a terrible pitch. So, while I fault Geren for not saving Balfour for righties that would have been up in the 9th, Balfour is supposed to throw outside when Suzuki calls it there.

In general, I just think that Billy’s overall philosophy is that the manager doesn’t matter. If we were to interview him today, I bet it’d be something like “Well, Bob doesn’t have the personnel that we thought.” etc etc.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 9:41 AM PDT reply actions  

Kleenex, closers, and managers-3 disposable items (according to Billy).

JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker

by JJ Martin on May 23, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

So, who would we realistically want...

if we got our wish and Geren was canned? I asked this question on the “We Need A Change” fanpost thread, and someone mentioned Hershisher. I’d be ok with that (apart from leftover bitterness from ’88, of course…). Who else could be a candidate?

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.

by the_rozeboom on May 23, 2011 9:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Oops...

I failed to recognize that people had already asked the “who should manage?” question previously.

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.

by the_rozeboom on May 23, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's okay. I can type Darren Bush and/or Greg Maddux again.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm cool with Hershiser again

Could do worse than a HoF player who is also really smart.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

Geren is a non-HoF who is not too bright when it comes to managing a baseball game.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know if he's THAT smart.

He certainly doesn’t impress me as a broadcaster, and as a pitching coach… well, that’s why he’s a broadcaster now.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bobby Valentine

But only if he wears a fake mustache the entire time.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perfect

Bottom line: Geren must go. Maybe he’ll stick around for the rest of another embarrassing, heartbreaking season, and then he’ll leave. That would be nice. I still think billy Beane is good, and has done an excellent job, but he needs to get the message and get rid of Geren.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 9:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Outman going tonight

I can just imagine the cluster fuck that Bobby G will arrange if Outman can only get through 3 or 4 innings….AGH!

by oakballnack on May 23, 2011 10:07 AM PDT reply actions  

So, Let's Hope

That Outman can have a quality start.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

#Athletics recall LHP Josh Outman and designate LHP Jerry Blevins for assignment. Blevins remains on the 40-man roster.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow. DFA for Blevins?

Also, who goes tomorrow?

I’ve been overwhelmed and I’ve been underwhelmed. Can I ever just be whelmed?

by closetasfan on May 23, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s one of those “fake” DFA’s.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Don't Know Yet

Cramer, perhaps?
Thankfully, Blevins is DFA. This guy is just not useful.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m guessing FDLS goes tomorrow.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

That Would Be Nice

However, Geren had better not overuse him and kill the kid. Because that would just suck.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's been relieving though, in AAA right?

So, would only be able to go like 2/3 innings.

I’m kind of guessing it will be Moscoso.

by longtimeasfan on May 23, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I meant going as in being sent to AAA for Moscoso.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, got it

Yes, that seems much more likely.

by longtimeasfan on May 23, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was he out of options?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

I think it has to do with service time. After a certain point, you have to DFA instead of option, but he’s still on the 40-man roster.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

what does that "still on the 40 man" mean?

i thought DFA was … remove from 40 man

I’ve been overwhelmed and I’ve been underwhelmed. Can I ever just be whelmed?

by closetasfan on May 23, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess we’ll find out more later today.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

He can elect FA

  If Blevins goes unclaimed then he has the option of going to AAA or becoming a free agent.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is his first time being DFA

So he can’t reject the assignment to AAA if he clears waivers.

by Danny on May 23, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's goin' back to Sacto... Sacto... Sacto...

he’s goin’ back to Sacto…

(nah, I don’t think so)

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was already sent down once.

So if he wasn’t in the minors long enough to burn an option that might be why, but I don’t get the DFA but keeping him on the 40 man.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

That doesn't make any sense.

Either he was optioned to AAA (so he’s still on the 40 man) or he was DFA’d (so he’s not on the 40 man).

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jane Lee tweeted he was going down to Sac

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's not on the 40 man roster on the team site

Looks like he was DFAd, which makes little sense considering Outman is already on the 40 man and Blevins had an option left.

by Danny on May 23, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless this is a precursor to a move later today, or tomorrow.

I think the whole “DFAed but still on the 40 man roster” was bad info somewhere along the pipeline.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

That still wouldn't make much sense

Moscoso and Cramer are on the 40 man, and they could transfer Braden to the 60-day if they need to make room for someone else.

by Danny on May 23, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless this is a precursor to the Kevin Slowey era?

One can only hope.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great write up! VERY WELL DONE

So, I’m listening to some sports talk right now about how dysfunctional the Mets organization is…..
My question is this, would anyone want Jose Reyes?! Move him to 2B? Or move Cliff to 2B? hmmmmm

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 10:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Rosterbation

We make a move with the Mets, acquiring Jose Reyes and Ike Davis…..Let me dream.

1.)CF Crisp
2.)2B Reyes
3.)RF Willingham
4.)DH Davis
5.)3B CoJax (see ya Kouzz, until we get a real 3B)
6.)LF Sweeney
7.)C Suzuki
8.)1B Barton
9.)SS Penny

I kind of like this lineup. Speed at the Top. 2 decent hitters. What we need! Lets make a move….I’m just throwing out ideas. LETS MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

But let’s make something GOOD happen.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

hahaha

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

penny has greater upside,

though yes, with defense included, Ellis has been better.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought Zips and Chone had him project decent this year?

Or do you mean the years he was plagued with soft tissue injuries?

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chone had him as league average before this year.

I meant before he came up to the majors the second time.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who cares what Figgins thinks?

( sorry, but I couldn’t resist)

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's new to him. Let him blow some milk on the screen.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, but this was my only time.

And, no, I don’t care that you are particularly annoyed. I did it in fun. Just accept it as such.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

He isn't a Cleaver. Wally and the Beaver were the Cleavers.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

...and Mrs Cleaver's...

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha!

Awesome comeback!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on May 23, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh Gotcha

Thanks for the clarification.

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

in a vacuum sure,

but how many good shortstops are out there? Stats or otherwise, I’m content with Pennington compared to what else is out there.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus we don't really have anyone waiting in the wings

Grant Green is probably 3 years or so away, If he even sticks at SS.

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

probably 1.5 or 2

if he’s actually good.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

and who could we play instead of Pennington?

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well he is a Saint.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

He has 300 games of league averageshness in the majors,

which is a pretty strong indication that he’s better than his minor league stats suggested he would be.

by Danny on May 23, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

It does. Im not suggesting that it doesn't.

But his +10 run UZR last year could be a fluke. He hasn’t put up positive UZR besides last year, and if he doesn’t put up very good UZRs hes a below league average player with his bat.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

The general state around the league at SS is not good at all.

Which suggests that his trade value would be unexpectedly high given the objective numbers, but also that finding a true replacement would be very, very difficult.

My son!
Man of the Crazy Sink.
Also related to a certain GasCan.
I'M A GIRL

by dregarx on May 23, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

LaRoche!

Oh fuck it, let’s just trade for Cust and put him there.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are 24 better ones this year.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

and how would we go about getting one of those?

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

It would be clean

To include Pennington in the boatload for Reyes.

As far as I know, the Mets don’t have hotshot SS coming up the pipeline.

I would be wary of doing this process in separate trades; seems like a path towards having 2 SS or 0 SS and needing to do a desperation trade to fix the situation.

My son!
Man of the Crazy Sink.
Also related to a certain GasCan.
I'M A GIRL

by dregarx on May 23, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

They do in Tejada.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

criminey

My son!
Man of the Crazy Sink.
Also related to a certain GasCan.
I'M A GIRL

by dregarx on May 23, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

hahha

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Complete agreement

Geren continually fails at:
1. Proper use of bullpen
2. Lefty/Righty match-ups
3. Sitting, or moving back, guys that are cold
4. Playing guys that are hot (Sweeney)
5. Leadership/inspiration

Yep, I’m totally, completely, utterly convince. Geren has to go, the sooner the better.
4 years of making the same boneheaded mistakes proves he’s not cut for the job. And it is painfully obvious he’s lasted this long exactly because of his friendship to BB.

by jeff-athletic on May 23, 2011 10:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Yep

Definitely numbers 1 and 5. This guy is horrible at managing a bullpen. and provides the players with no motivation at all. Would like to see Sweeney more.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nepotism/cronyism must be really bad in certain industries.

It doesn’t seem to be a big problem in the construction fields. Those jobs are by definition temporary( when the building is finished, everyone is laid off), and if you don’t produce, you’re gone. PERIOD! I am a 3rd generation carpenter, and because of location, often worked for my father on projects. Yes, it helped me get a foot in the door, but if I didn’t do my job, I knew he would fire me first. This is the best way to deal with bad opinion. Beane should just run Geren out of town and move on. This is business, and Geren should know that he isn’t getting his job done.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:16 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

It is business, and the goal of any business is to win. Beane was so good at this in the early 2000’s. if a guy wasn’t helping the team win, then he was gone. I remember when he got rid of Magnante and signed Rincon, just to help the team win. And this was a few hours before the game! There was another time when he got rid of three guys (former poster boys) in one day. Beane was very efficient back then.
Geren is not helping the team win, so he should leave.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cradle-to-grave welfare

Does it help that the team gets the same amount of money every year whether they do well or not?

Don't move my team. Puh-lease?

by Kovu on May 23, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think it works like that.

The better you do, the better you draw, the less revenue sharing you get. At least in theory. The first two parts don’t always work out so well.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

True, but I have to believe the BB/Wolff want to win.

If they don’t then this is a bigger scandal than Geren remaining as manager.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I gotta sneeze.

ah… ah… ah… Pirates!

(can I get a Gezundheit up in here?)

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gezundheit!

If they don’t want to win, then all this is moot. WE"RE ALL DOOMED!

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

East coast Fan

Because I do live on the east coast this comment could be off, So I will make it more like a question then, If we were to consistently get 30,000 or more people at home games would we as a fan base have more of a voice in getting the manager fired? If Geren was in Philly or Chicago or Anaheim do you really think those larger fan bases would have a say in getting him canned? My honest opinion is yes it would factor in.

by bteribery on May 23, 2011 10:20 AM PDT reply actions  

And... Bob Geren wouldn't be the manager in the first place.

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.

by the_rozeboom on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

this

Unless you were the Cubbies. In which case, it wouldn’t matter who you signed( nor how many fans you had), you would still lose.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is there a money problem

  Seems like the A’s can’t even give away their money to hitters. I would love for them to throw money at Fielder or Pujols in the off season but most likely we will get the has been FA.

by Arcman on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

We Will Not Get Either

They’re gonna ask for money that the A’s won’t want to pay them. ’Specially not Pujols.

by Jason James on May 23, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Everyone hates their manager

Look on the other SBN blogs. There many people on Halos Heaven who would happily trade us Scoscia for a Golden Retriever.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I will happily take Scoscia.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

me too.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why, pray tell?

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 23, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mathis over Napoli cost them somewhere around 10-15 WINS over 5 years.

I mean actual wins, as in WAR. Not “oh, it was a tie game and Geren put in the wrong guy, so this loss is 100% on him”.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Mathis is a CAREER 48 wRC+ hitter. His career numbers are Ellis's April.

Napoli is a 118. I agree, catcher defense is hard to measure, but in a full 650 PA season, the gulf between Mathis and Napoli’s hitting talent is somewhere around SIXTY runs. Is Napoli 60 runs better on defense?

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know, but I'd defer to the starting pitcher on the choice of catchers

If Greg Maddux wants Eddie Perez instead of Javier Lopez he’s got it as far as I’m concerned. If none of the Angel pitchers liked pitching to Napoli, I’d accede to their wishes.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Maddux got that because he is Maddux

You don’t see the fifth starter with a 5.40 ERA saying, yeah this guy is my personal catcher

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

But Maddux was one of the best pitchers of his generation

I think the sacrifice of Napoli’s stick for Mathis’ ability to call game or whatever he brings is a big one. And the Angels pitchers don’t have enough clout to be able to force their manager to make that move. That was all Scioscia

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

We don't know that he didn't prefer Mathis because of the

pitchers’ wishes

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

That is fair

We don’t know – though the reports I’ve heard are Scoiscia the former catcher didnt like Napoli’s catching. But let’s assume that isnt the case.

If you are a pitcher, do you want a guy hitting .176 with no pop, or a very good hitter in Napoli everyday? Ask the A’s pitchers, if they’d want their offense to put up 2 runs a game or six? I think ot a degree the pitchers would want the runs too.

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's dumb if that's why he let Nap be traded

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's when you say "look, I'm the manager, and Napoli is our catcher".

Sixty runs per season is a ridiculous, crazy amount. That’s the difference between Matt Carson and Matt Holliday.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Makes no sense at all

That decision alone to scrap Napoli to me is an indictment of Scioscia and why I wouldn’t ever want him to be my manager

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

The job requires a benevolent dictatorship

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am a benevolent dictator in that I insist on

performance. But I also let people do their job however they can do it best and I give them whatever tools they think they need to do it. So if Haren insisted on Mathis and then pitched badly, I fire Haren.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

"True", sorry

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

To what point?

This is the equivalent of the entire rotation coming to you and saying “We don’t like having Chase Utley behind us when you pitch, so can you start Jose Lopez at 2B?”

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

and....

this might be a better approach than having Geren as manager, right?

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

anecdotally

look at the Dodgers in 1998. Mike Piazza was traded for Charles Johnson. The pitchers, in the press praised the move to no end, saying how much they loved charles johnson over Piazza.

The pitching staff was kinda the same all year.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well the press is irrelevant, but the pitchers

do matter

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

THe point of "the press" line

was that the pitchers were making it know to the media that they loved Johnson, I think Ramone Martinez even said something like its great to have a real catcher.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

That would matter to me, but Piazza

is such an awesome hitter that I’d still find a place for his bat

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't that be tough to do in the NL?

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait a minute, there.

The hitting difference between Piazza and Johnson is HALF that of Napoli vs. Mathis.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Napoli Decision was such a bad one...

…that there must be real extenuating circumstances. There are some people who simply can’t work with other people. If the pitchers and Scioscia felt they couldn’t work with the guy, and if Napoli flat out refused to be DH or play other positions, or threw a temper tantrum, then it could make sense to trade him.

Sometimes these decisions are not fully baseball-related.

by richwol1 on May 23, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt any pitcher would say that, but the

Braves did trade Yunel Escobar for Alex Gonzalez in large part because of the feelings of the players

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

You tell Javy Lopez to learn exactly what Eddie Perez does

And then to do it. You can learn catching skill, but you can’t learn good hitting

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Apparently Lopez wasn't capable of doing it

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

No way.

If it’s a small-to-medium difference, sure, I’d agree. But Mathis is too much. FAR too much.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do you believe in catchers' ERA?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kinda. I believe that the most important guy in any particular

game is a starting pitcher, and I want that guy to be at his best

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

and without that personal catcher they wouldn't be MLB caliber pitchers

and all those guys that caught for them in the minors were also hand picked by them.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's probably not rational on their part, but I'd still

go along with it.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with the sentiment, I just don't know if data support it

If you catch a good starting staff, you have a good cERA. There’s a difference inasmuch as an A+/AA catcher will be appreciably different than an MLB veteran. But, the hitting of those catchers directly contributes to wins.

Plus, Maddux/Smoltz/Glavine were just good. No matter who they pitched to.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

For whatever reason Glavine and Smoltz thought

Lopez was just fine

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

If the hitting difference is 60 runs per season? Absolutely, every day of the week.

Eddie Perez is twice the hitter Mathis is. I don’t know if you’re comprehending how mind-numbingly bad Mathis is. He’s, quite possibly, the worst hitter to ever play in the majors.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think he projected to be as bad as he's been

I grant that he’s been terrible although not Oyler-esque

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hee

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Silly, he doesn't play for us.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

agree

You’ve got a catcher who hits like a DH, and you keep him on the bench so you can give at bats to a guy with a career OBP of .260. To me, that’s an automatic disqualification from the competent manager debate. Mathis could be Pudge Rodriguez with the glove (he’s actually pretty bad from what I’ve read), and Napoli could be worse than Mike Piazza, and it still wouldn’t be remotely close.

by thelincolndude on May 25, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I figured that would be your answer. It's a valid one, and I'd take Napoli over Scioscia, myself

Not to manage, but I’d certainly play him somehow.

I’m not sure that the 60 runs equals Geren’s costs to the A’s in questionable game and lineup decisions, but since we don’t get to visit alternate universes to check the results of each decision, we are just left with gut instinct there…

I’d say none of it matters. It doesn’t matter how bad Geren’s decisions are at this point. The club is dead. They need someone who will tell a veteran like Crisp that he needs to work on bunting, for those occasional situations where it’s needed. Just as Gio and Cahill clearly didn’t want to embarrass themselves at the plate so they worked on it (probably on their own). They need to go back to having a Kangaroo court to fine/embarrass players who don’t run out popups, who screw the pooch in an at bat or a boneheaded baserunning play. Some of this the players could do themselves, I guess, since Bob certainly won’t.

After a win, he’s a wet blanket. After a close loss, he’s a talking potato. I can’t imagine a situation where his personality would fire up a player…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 23, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's purely an academic exercise anyway.

I’m with everybody else in wanting Geren out. At this point, there’s nothing to lose in NOT firing him.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

I can’t see how it could get worse

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

oh come on... he's middle of the pack at worst.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

He has a better reputation than he does anything else

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

A la, Torre

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Scioscia's a lot better than Torre

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would agree with this

but the only manager I don’t think is a total Maroon in Manny Atca

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like him too. I forgot about him

kinda the best qualities of Scioscia with out the untangibles.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Joe Maddon's the best manager in MLB today.

He may be the greatest of all time, just because even “greats” like LaRussa and McGraw have/had their problems with players and inefficient strategies.

Who uses a bullpen the best? Probably Maddon.
Who’s players are most willing to run through a cheesecloth curtain for him? Definitely Maddon.
Who keeps the loosest but most businesslike clubhouse? Maddon
Who dresses his players in cute outfits on the road? Maddon

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

He doesn't fly.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the cut of your jib.

Though couldn’t we look into resurrecting one of the old greats instead?

Y’know, if we’re going the whole hog.

Or screw it, make Braden the manager. At least the post game interviews would be entertaining.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

FIRE SKINNER NOW!

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

HAHAHAHA

Seriously, though. That’s what would happen if these guys took care of their own. They take care of themselves first. Only.

Don't move my team. Puh-lease?

by Kovu on May 23, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Reputation for winning.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

He has a reputation for winning because he…wins! What a fucking shock!!!

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

over Geren, heck yeah.

There are some guys I like more than Scioscia, though.

Clint Hurdle, Manny Acta, Terry Francona, Mike Quade, and of course, Joe Maddon.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will happily take a Golden Retriever.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 23, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

No chance I'm willing to give up a good dog in any trade.

“A Boy and His Dog”. My fav Don Johnson movie.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah but its not unanimous over there

Pretty much everyone here is convinced Geren’s incapable.

by BigJ7489 on May 23, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thats true

Buy I guess my point is that since the same 15,00 or so that show up now dont have a mouthpiece that can be heard, Why? Because the consistently show up through thick and thin, If the were drwing much bigger crowds more con sistently and those numbers started to fall off and fans were complaining I think the voice mighjt be a bit louder.

by bteribery on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM PDT reply actions  

From the A's Twitter:

#Athletics recall LHP Josh Outman and designate LHP Jerry Blevins for assignment. Blevins remains on the 40-man roster

by Johnny Bravo on May 23, 2011 10:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Sure the manager should go

but this is only part of the problem. There isn’t enough offensive talent on this team to contend. The minor league system doesn’t look like it will produce it, either. Free agents don’t want to come to Oakland because the stadium stinks and win or lose the seats are empty. The boss wouldn’t pay free agents the money to come anyway. No one will trade with Beane because they hate him and don’t trust him after Moneyball.

What the A’s have is wonderful starting pitching. What they don’t have is anything else. I can’t imagine that will change for the next two or three years. Enjoy the mediocrity. Enjoy the great starting pitching. Given the nature of A’s management and the nature of the ballpark, playoff baseball is a long ways away.

by rovingralph on May 23, 2011 10:36 AM PDT reply actions  

I disagree. I think the talent is enough to contend in this weak west.

The problem is that when things are this tight, you can’t have stupid managing choices deciding the games. Get a better manager in there who can use his players well and the W-L column should tilt in the good direction.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder if Davey Johnson can be convinced to return to managing

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm all for getting all three of these guys

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's right though.

Reyes is injured far too often and his game is based on contact and speed. Those skills won’t hold up.

Wright was on the road to becoming a superstar, but now he’s merely a very good player. I don’t know what has happened, but his production has slipped off the last few years.

Beltran I think has always been a good player, but again he’s been unlucky with injuries.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think the question is whether he is right or wrong

But more how the players perceive that. He is right about everything. But I would bet his comments didn’t exactly make his players happy about playing for the Mets.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

This!

If he doesn’t care, lets flip them CoJax&Kouz for Beltran and Green, Ellis & Taylor for Reyes. Wright’s probably going to be out for the year, in addition to being a 3B with now back issues. No thanks. Trade DDJ for whatever and trade for Wilson Betemit and here’s something better:

CF: C. Crisp
SS: J. Reyes
RF: C Beltran
LF: J. Willingham
DH: H. Matsui
1B: D. Barton
3B: W. Betemit
C: K. Suzuki
2B: J. Weeks

LIKE!

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fuck that noise.

Let’s send Toronto Kouzmanoff for Jose Bautista. It’s about as realistic as that.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Id give them the entire farm and Pennington.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm still worried about Wright's back.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

No one is trading for Wright until he comes back and plays for a few weeks

At the least, teams will lowball the Mets for this (as they should)

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Id still do it.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Missing Chavez are we?

Because Wright is about to turn into him.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

This Wilpon guy is pretty funny.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can Wolff trash Bob and the A’s offense now?

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

If he won't, maybe we can get Wilpon to trash Geren.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

we need to get Reyes and Wright

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

What do you have against Beltran?

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nothing really - I'd just rather address our Infield if we were to make a big move

Although he has been hurt a lot, I like Beltran.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good. Then he's in.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

haha I honestly think we could pull off a trade with the Mets

Some people seem to think that Reyes is vastly overrated — I’m not in that camp. And, obviously, I’ve seen people talking about the possibility/dream of acquiring David Wright here on A’s Nation for a long time now. That would be a perfect solution at 3B. I wonder how many prospects such a trade would require.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

6

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

And what, exactly, would you offer the Mets?

Cos they’re going to ask for Gio, Cahill, and/or Anderson.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

They absolutely are not taking on money.

The only player that they feasibly could get from us is Gio who’s year to year.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

And now that we won't have any starting pitching left....

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

What would it take

Carter, Taylor, Weeks, Parker, and a few others? Probably a combination of any of any grouping of 5 of our Top 10 Prospects, I’d imagine, and throw in a major league relief pitcher? Maybe they could take Ellis from us.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd do it.

Carter and Weeks and Choice I hold onto.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

All the african american players.....

Coincidence? ;-)

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love black people.

What can i say?

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you just said it.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

post of the month!

“How can it be racist if Im saying I love them?” lol

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hold onto Parker too

He’s a real under the radar type who could turn into something awesome.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who the hell is Joseph?

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's the one who owns a coat of many colours

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hard throwing minor league reliever.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we need a Jim Leyland "type"

The problem is that I don’t see BB allowing that much control to his manager. This is why getting a good manager to sign will be so tough.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 10:53 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

this is the real reason Wash wasn't hired.

All the players and fans wanted Wash, and the guy had a track record of success. He turned Chavvy from a butcher to a perennial gold glover.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I keep coming back to the idea that Beane, Forst, and Co. have come up with some kind of secret metrics

and they’re using them to make lineup and pitching replacement decisions. Geren is required because they can trust him to a) not blow the secret, and b) it doesn’t take much from the manager to follow it.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 11:01 AM PDT reply actions  

It’s called Gerenmetrics, unfortunately.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

If this is true, it's stupid and it's not working

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's called a ...

Ouija board

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

OT

Anyone else kinda excited to see Outman tonight? I dig the stirrups.

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 11:08 AM PDT reply actions  

In my mind

Billy Beane is just as much to blame (if not more so) than Geren. Geren wouldn’t even be in a position to screw up if it weren’t for Beane. I suspect that the type of manager the A’s need is the type of manager Beane wouldn’t like because they might stand up to Billy every now and then.

by Washoe Zephyr on May 23, 2011 11:11 AM PDT reply actions  

Hell

At this point, I miss Art Howe.

by Washoe Zephyr on May 23, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I am pretty sure no GM would fire a manager in the middle of this "lose 2 starters in one day" maelstrom

But after the flurry of up and down moves from AAA, 40-man, etc. has died down, Geren has to show some consistently good play. I cannot imagine .500 can get it done after all the additional money invested in the team, plus the improved play of our pitching staff.

Beane is hoping and praying that Willingham, DeJesus, Kouz, Barton, etc., will turn it up (like the rest of us). Otherwise he knows he will have to make a difficult decision.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 11:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Those guys need to all be in the lineup everyday

No point in having DeJesus if he’s going to play only 4-5 times a week. This is why I want Conor to play 3rd and Matsui to sit: it opens up the DH spot for Willingham, LF for Sweeney, and RF for DeJesus. The defensive hit from Conor playing 3rd is probably made up for with those guys in the lineup everyday.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think so.

He played 3B in college he can’t be that bad right?

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

He might be pretty bad

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh man, seriously?

I…kinda want to see that. Not as much as I want to see Cust at SS, but close.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

According to Baseball Cube

Willingham was actually at shortstop for two games. Talk about scary.

by richwol1 on May 23, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Has Willingham played RF at all in his MLB career?

Sorry, not sure where to find that sort of information…anyone know?

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

I just saw it and forgot where - last year with Washington.

by richwol1 on May 23, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...not a lot.

Thanks Dan.

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa, wait a minute.

He didn’t play OF much at ALL in the minors.

443 total minor league games
52 in the OF
119 at 3B
68 at 1B
180 at C (seriously?!)
13 at 2B
2 at SS

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

no kidding

There must be an explanation for this

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I knew about C

Former catchers (if they played it in the high minors) who can hit have always intrigued me. Guys like Willingham, Craig Wilson, etc.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on May 23, 2011 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love the 2001 Kane County Cougars

Featuring Miguel Cabrera, Adrian Gonzalez and Josh Willingham. Think about hot good theyd be if the Marlins only ever made that Hanley trade….mind blowing.

See here.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look at it this way:

The A’s have been desperate for a 3Bman since the 2010 season ended, and yet they JUST started having him take grounders at 3B. He’s kind of “Plan G” at that position.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 23, 2011 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think having Jackson + Sweeney + DeJesus in the lineup together everyday overcome -15

Plus, also having Willingham out of LF is at least +6 (addition by subtraction, so to speak)

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sadly I'm not sure he is a good enough hitter for that.

I think his approach is one of the best on the team, but the outcome is generally disappointing.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not about Conor so much as making sure Sweeney and DeJesus play everyday

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not against trying Conor at third to see how well he plays there.

I do have a problem giving him the starting job when he has yet to field a ball at 3rd base.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Might as well try him tonight, then.

According to all, we have no chance at all of winning either game anyway…

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 23, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's my point.

Your don’t give up on your best fielding 3rd baseman on a lark. I am against “canning” Kouz, when we have no true replacement. LaRoche’s hitting has come back down to his “career” numbers, and we would have been screwed if BB had traded Kouz at the end of April as some had demanded. Give Conor some time there is fine. Reliying on him to hold the position isn’t.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Have you looked at Andy's numbers, both offensive and defense, since April ended?

Reminds me of Kennedy. No thanks. Kouz has already turned around his defense, while LaRoche’s bat has disappeared.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm saying that Kouzmanoff isn't any better

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 23, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

It may be a surprise, but I'm saying he is.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are 2 issues

The lineup is one, but that’s not so much on Geren. We don’t have anyone good. We gotta play who we have. Unless and until Billy makes a trade, cuts someone, calls up minor leaguers, Geren has to play the hand he is dealt.

The bullpen management I have to assume will improve after Fuentes’ pointed comments. He basically laid out the blueprint: 1) don’t reinvent the wheel, bullpens in baseball are managed a certain way. 2) Don’t overwork guys and leave others to languish on the bench. 3) Don’t put Fuentes in, in tie games, use him in situations where he has a chance of success. 4) Respect your players.

If Geren doesn’t change following that, I would be somewhat surprised. Maybe I’m an optimist but Geren seeing that he is losing his handle on his team should hopefully spur him into trying to get that handle back.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Only if he is afraid of losing his job, (which he isn't).

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

There is another incentive

Not having your team hate you (and not winning).

I have to believe 1) Geren wants to win and 2) Geren likes being liked. These are separate incentives from keeping/losing your job.

Second, if Geren does not make this team a winner, he will never ever be offered another managerial job at the MLB level. No chance. He knows that.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Play who we have"

We aren’t doing that. We kept Ryan Sweeney, traded for DeJesus, and offered Conor Jackson a roster spot. DeJesus and Sweeney sit way too often, but neither can possibly play 3rd. Conor is the only one that has a prayer of playing 3rd, and can hit better than Kouz/LaRoche.

We just aren’t maximizing the players we do have. That burns me to no end.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

With Sweeney coming off knee surgery, I have no problem slowly easing him back into fulltime play.

We will need him to be full strength for the late season and 2012. The worst thing they could have done, is bring him back too some and chance ruining his future.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is a reasonable difference of opinion on whether playing CoJack at 3B maximizes our talent

The fact that they are even having him field grounders at the position for practice, and are even considering the idea, shows that they are trying to see if it really does maximize our talent.

But all of our “best” hitters OPS’ing in the .600’s is not going to get it done, no matter how we set the lineup. We can’t have 5 black holes.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

DeJesus has a track record, and Sweeney does too

None of that matters if they’re on the bench. If they play more, they will end up being closer to their career norms.

As a said above, having Sweeney instead of Willingham in LF saves 6 runs going forward at least. It can’t help but go up from there.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Our Bullpen after these 5 losses has gone from 3rd (1st in AL) to 15th

5-11 overall.

That’s about 5 or 6 that should never have happened.

Andrew Bailey to the rescue like 2 weeks ago

by Trainman on May 23, 2011 11:43 AM PDT reply actions  

Bulky, bat-only guy who has to hit. RT @athletics4life: @Kevin_Goldstein Thoughts on AJ Kirby-Jones? He looks great this afternoon @ WI

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 12:01 PM PDT reply actions  

I think we already knew that.

Hence why he’s at 1B.

"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury

by OldhamA on May 23, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah this.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, that was me.

He was my favorite Bee.

Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/

by Kelly on May 23, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

According to Cot's Baseball Contracts Geren is in the last year of his contract...no option year for 2012 (thank god).

Click HERE for the link.

So that would mean Beane would have to offer a brand new contract to Geren if he’s to be managing the A’s in 2012, right? If we don’t make the playoffs this year and Geren still gets a contract extension? Wow…what a punch in the gut that would be to all of us.

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 12:24 PM PDT reply actions  

yes, so I think unless we win the division, 2012 is it for Geren.

There is no way Beane can offer an extension if we have a total lack of results.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

3 years is long term.

Beane was pretty clear that he gave Geren a mulligan the last two years, but expects to win with the team he has put on the field this year.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Spit it out!

It won’t taste good the second time.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:35 PM PDT reply actions  

D@#MN reply fail!

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha :)

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Regarding our ownership situation...

I’ve heard people mention that if the A’s aren’t granted the rights to build a new stadium in San Jose, Wolff and company would sell the team.

Whether they’d sell for that reason or some other…since Billy Beane is now part of the ownership group of the A’s, do you guys think he’d be out as GM if we got new owners?

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 12:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Never has Wolff said anything about selling the team if they can't get a stadium in SJ.

He has pretty much said he doesn’t know what he’ll do.

About Beane, it would really depend on the new owners and whether their idea of personnel evaluation was different than what he does now. It’s also possible that Beane decides that an ownership change is a good time to move on. Forst could become the official GM (he does a lot of the GM duties now).

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only things I've heard Wolff say about the situation are

“I’m waiting for Bud Selig’s thoughts on the situation.”

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah....so why are people hating on Wolff?

He’s done all he can do and is waiting out Bud’s non-committee, which is going to say “San Jose” but he’s probably trying to figure out how to appease the team that’s fueling the Bay Area’s market right now.

The best thing that could happen would be for the Giants to suck. That way, he wont care about telling them they dont “own” SJ.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jeffro would be the best authority on this topic.

I think its fair to speculate that if SJ is squashed there would be a lot of turnover w/the FO.

by hishnik on May 23, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

YES!

I’m now a fan of the Fire Bob Geren facebook page! Alright!

by David Yashar on May 23, 2011 12:42 PM PDT reply actions  

I love how several people have already commented that

The A’s changing their Twitter handle from @OaklandAs to @athletics is surely another sign that Lew Wolff hates Oakland.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:52 PM PDT reply actions  

commented on Twitter

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

i'm sorry if this pisses anyone off,

but the A’s would be better off not in Oakland. As A’s fans should pull for San Jose, it’s better than Portland. Oakland hasn’t done much to keep the A’s there.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the A's should move to Tokyo

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

i could dig it.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

They should be in San Jose like two years ago

I understand that many fans want the team to stay in Oakland but for the good of the team they have to go where the best potential is and that is San Jose.

by Trainman on May 23, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am from Oakland, and as long as they are in the Bayarea that is all I care about. Would it be good for downtown Oakland, yes. Will that ever happen, no. I think if Lew doesn’t get San Jose, they try to sell the team.

by Slide Giambi on May 23, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Build a stadium for the Raiders

in San Jose – tear down Mount Davis, and spend another 20-30 million in renovations to the Collesium. A lot cheaper than building a new stadium, and the county could in essence sell the stadium to the A’s in exchange for the renovations. It’s not that bad of a park, and it’s in a great location. You put that view of the hills back, maybe lop off portions of the upper deck, decrease the foul territory with some more field level seating – shit, it’s a great park!

by oakballnack on May 23, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wish I could turn this green all by myself except for the part about being a Raiders fan.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

I'm just going to turn your comment green instead, mike

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is what I say every time.

As A’s fans, its irresponsible to be a Raiders fan too. I quit following the NFL once it had become clear that Al Davis not only ruined the stadium, but ruined his team too. Its insulting to have to witness something like that as a fan. I looked at all the facts and said “That’s it: fuck the Raiders, I’m done with the NFL.”

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

uhmm i dont think that would work...

why not just build a stadium in san jose for the A’s? Who says the raiders wanna moev? Who’s paying for that stadium? Who says Wolff is fine even in the area?

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oakland/Alameda County seem to love working with the Raiders.

I say the A’s go to SJ, and then the Raiders bend Oakland/AC over the barrel…. and still leave.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't want to get into this too much

But the Coli needs WAY more than $30M in renovations. I believe the slegnA paid $160M+ for renovations more than a decade ago. IF that was ever a solution, it would need to be at that level (where the stadium was basically gutted and reborn new)

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

and no one is gonnad pay 160mil to gut a stadium that put 100 something mil to put mount davis on it

by Slide Giambi on May 23, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not in a great location

Unless a whole bunch of development builds up around it. Not having restaurants/bars for pre and post game activities near the Coliseum is one of the things that makes AT&T a more attractive place to go for most people.

by throwmonkey on May 23, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Open Fan Letter to Beane

Disclaimer: This is obviously just from me, my opinion, etc. What does everyone think? I know I haven’t been around much before.

Re: The Time for Aspiring to Mediocrity is Over
We, as your customer, do hereby reject the deliberately neglected and dilapidated state of your product the Oakland A’s. Under the “guidance” of a surly, much-loathed manager players are suffering potentially life-long injury and possibly drastically shortened or even abruptly ended baseball careers as a result and we won’t stand for it.

Let Geren take his own livelihood in his hands: he will not continue to hurt our players by his incompetence. We will simply not continue to allow you to put the health of our players at risk nor will we sit idly by while you continue to ravage the legacy of our beloved A’s franchise. Geren is hurting good players. Replace Bob Geren or we’re “peace out.”

Signed –
James Howard Russell

Don't move my team. Puh-lease?

by Kovu on May 23, 2011 12:59 PM PDT reply actions  

I was thinking of people we could trade at the deadline, and the only people I see as candidates are Wuertz, Breslow maybe Ziegler

by Slide Giambi on May 23, 2011 1:14 PM PDT reply actions  

somewhat below average.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

...........really?

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on May 23, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shocking, I know

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

huh. I had NO idea. Literally, none.

….and you ALL feel this way?

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on May 23, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well over half of us.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am shocked.

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on May 23, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we could only get BB to agree with us...

[sigh]

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

now, who's that?

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on May 23, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me thinks he is the owner of some soccer team...

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

+46

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

hehe

I think he expects the fielders to kick the balls around.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

oh snap!

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

the pitchforks are being sharpened

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey Bloomie, wanna bale some hay,

or hail some bay, or roll in the hay with Christian Bale, or something like that?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 23, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes!

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on May 23, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just trust me on this. I know you're not really big into advanced stats.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

huh.

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on May 23, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

John from Fremont is the best caller ever

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 23, 2011 1:42 PM PDT reply actions  

CT is talking about Geren right now on his radio show...

Call the show and vent AN! At least we can back it up with some well-formed opinions!

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 2:08 PM PDT reply actions  

I just emailed Townsend

with one of my comments, albeit, edited for the radio. We’ll see if he reads it….

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on May 23, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome :)

One of the best things about Townsend his he’s a genuine fan like us…and he doesn’t have to hold back his true feelings/frustrations regarding the team. It’s refreshing.

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 23, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't look now Ladies and Gents

But Michael Taylor is ripping the shit out of the ball in Sac. Is he potentially the savior for Bob Geren’s tenure as our manager. And don’t give me any of this ooooooh there isn’tspace on our roster crap. DFA: Laroche and Kouz, bring up Weeks and Taylor. I don’t give a shit if they’re being paid too much or whatever your argument is. They’re the future and to be completely blunt they’re the only resource we can tap into to try and get an offensive spark.

by Matt Sampson on May 23, 2011 3:13 PM PDT reply actions  

DFA two 3rd basemen, bring up a 2B and a RF.

Okay.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

You forget that once upon a time Conor played 3rd base.

Our prayers are answered.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

yea but you keep reminding me.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I keep saying it because I'm trying to understand the logic of the move.

So far it has baffled me.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

By ripping the shit out of the ball you mean King 30% of his AB?

that is an interesting definition.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

BUT WHEN HE HITS IT

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I <3 500 + BABIP

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

outlier!

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's not ripping the shit out of the ball.

.385/.429/.436 in 9 games. That tells me two things:

One, I’m guessing that BABIP is astronomically high. And two? He’s hitting for next to no power. So…he’s hitting a lot of balls that are falling for singles, but nothing else.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

And hes King at an alarming rate.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

i think you need to use a '

otherwise we have royalty on our hand

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

did you know what i meant? obviously you did.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've said it before, and I know it was said in this thread,

but the absolute most glaring condemnation of Geren is that there is no “other side”. Whatever the reasoning, everyone wants Geren to go. He has no defenders. For a group as diverse as Athletics Nation, who can find at least two sides to every debate, and make intelligent comments on all sides, agreeing on one point is something of which to take notice.

If you can get EVERYONE on Athletics Nation—and I’m talking a 100% consensus—to agree on something, it’s a pretty safe bet that it’s the right choice. It’s like the “ask the audience” on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire on the easiest question out there. The only person that I’ve EVER heard defend Bob Geren is Billy Beane. The only one. In five years. Out of hundreds of people.

I know of what I speak. I was, of course, the biggest champion of the Fire Macha campaign. AN disagreed with me on a regular basis, not because my critiques weren’t valid, but because there was enough gray area to cast a reasonable doubt on his overall effectiveness. Even I can admit that. I thought Macha had his problems, and I could list them, but he was doing enough good that people could balance out the bad with the good.

There are NO Geren defenders. The fact that a post like today’s can be written without anyone in nearly 700 comments standing up and saying, ‘Wait, here’s a defense!’ should be ironclad proof of the need for a change, because I’ve seen it all on AN before. But not this. NEVER a consensus.

Check it out, front office…

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on May 23, 2011 3:15 PM PDT reply actions   5 recs

That is a great point

Seriously. The best defense here is that Game 3 of the Giants series wasn’t Geren’s fault. I can buy that.

Nobody is saying he is a good manager, and not one person ever has said that they would choose to keep Geren if they had a choice.

Nobody wanted to keep Geren after last year!

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait Game 3 was his fault

He stuck Fuentes in. The only blame free game he gets is Game 2 where he made mistakes but they didnt cost him the game

by dwishinsky on May 23, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm blaming Game 3 on Balfour

But my point is that is the only reasonable possible defense of Geren.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bad performance happens, especially if you give the hitter the platoon advantage

Wuertz, Balfour, Breslow and Fuentes were all put in the wrong place (means they had mostly platoon disadvantage)

by Rio on May 23, 2011 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was his fault

He good his relievers constantly in bad matchups. Only Devine was the right hand for his situation.

by Rio on May 23, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Quick question

Mark Ellis was a SS in the minors, who moved to 2B because we had Chavez, Miggy and Crosby blocking him….would it kill us to try him out at 3B or SS?

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 3:25 PM PDT reply actions  

All I read from this was

blah blah blah bobby crosby broke blah blah blah.

by LoneStranger on May 23, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

heehee

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ellis was a quite good SS

But since his collision with Croz, he no longer has the arm to play there.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on May 23, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would love it if Ellis could play 3B

Immediately, La Roche or Kouz gets cut, Weeks comes up.

But Future Ed has emphatically informed me that he can’t. WHY?

Also time to trade DDJ for low level prospects and bring up Taylor.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't understand why posters on here are so categorical about a game that changes daily.

Pujols played 3B and was very good there, pretty sure there were people who said “That would neverrrrrr happen”. Never say never in baseball.

by PL78 on May 23, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

His throwing shoulder was damaged.

He can’t make the throws from the left side any more.

DDJ was a wasted trade, so far. However, no way he’s going out for low level prospects. He cost too much to do that yet. The guy has 1000 ML hits You don’t dump him less than two months into the season.

Everyone wanted to replace Kouz with LaRoche for good, and he hasn’t hit anything this entire month.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 23, 2011 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

he cost what?

Mazzarro?

We hardly gave up anything for DDJ.

by Billy Frijoles on May 23, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am not an expert

but from short right field at the daytime cleveland game, mark caught the ball. Set him self and bounced a throw home. About a 130 foot throw.

the hole at short is about that far. Third base is closer, but not close enough.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

torn labrum.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about keep Mark at second,

since he is so good there, and move either Weeks or Cardenas to third. Weeks or Cardenas could work out at third even though the FO seems to be convinced that they will not. Chavy wasn’t supposed to be a third baseman, but he became a pretty good one. People like Rosales, Laroche and even Bobby Crosby have been able to seamlessly move over to the hot corner with moderate success. The point is that if Weeks or Cardenas can play a decent third while providing more offense, then our team, as a whole, will improve.

 Our defense would still be strong up the middle with Penny, Ellis and Crisp. Also, we have a very good defensive first baseman who is able to scoop up and make plays on throws that are a little bit out of his range. Because of this, Weeks or Cardenas just need to be able to scoop up the ball and make decent throws. This whole emphasis on superior defense has gotten a little out of hand, and I wouldn’t mind substituting some defense for more offense. There seems to be a fairly good chance that Weeks/Cardenas’ offense will help the team a lot more than their defense will hurt the team. At this point, it seems to be worth a gamble. With Kouz hurt and CoJack starting at third tonight, why not put Kouz on the DL and just try out Weeks or Cardenas at third and see how it goes?

by Rygoslinglover on May 23, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Weeks doesn’t have the arm for it either. Cardenas isn’t good there.

Here is the thing Chavez had the skills for the position, strong arm, good reaction time. He was just error prone. That is something that someone can teach.

Laroche has always been a third baseman.

Crosby and Rosales were SS which generally have the tools to play 3b.

Our defense up the middle isn’t that that good. Pennington is a merely average fielder and has been pretty below average this year.

I have no problem putting Cardenas at third with Kouz on the DL to see if it works.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tonight

#Athlerics lineup vs #LAAngels: Crisp 8, Barton 3, Sweeney 7, Matsui DH, Jackson 5, DeJesus 9, Suzuki 2, LaRoche 4, Pennington 6…Outman 1

Wow…Co-Jack 3B?

by TBRMKane on May 23, 2011 4:00 PM PDT reply actions  

god dammit just fucking move Barton there already and get on with shit.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

Trying this 3B experiment on Co-Jack is a waste since he’s not even going to be a key part of the future, or at least he shouldn’t be. Might as well try Barton to see if it works so that we could possibly fit Carter at 1B.

by duballers23 on May 23, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah he's a DH though.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

well who is going to play 1rst?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pujols.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

get'er dun!

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly. I wish he were a LH hitter, but he isn't.

The only time it might make sense to start him at 3B is against a LHP.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on May 23, 2011 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Connor at 3B will make for an exciting game!

Oh wait…Athlerics? Is that Geren’s idea of shaking things up?

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on May 23, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Under.

Saint Conorjackson will show you the light.

by danmerqury on May 23, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I predict 5 diving snares and a cartwheel

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on May 23, 2011 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

and a somersault.

oh he might make a panini after while turning a double play.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Grilled between his eyebrows

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on May 23, 2011 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Outman doesn't generate that many ground balls.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t like how management sets the bar low for our big league hitters, but sets the bar so high for our minor league hitters who seem to be spending so much time in the minors when they could automatically be our biggest threat in the lineup(sadly). They can no longer talk about trying not to rush guys up to the majors when we see our former prospects hitting very well on other teams after getting a shot in the majors. Guys like Michael Taylor probably keep struggling(not right now though) because they feel like it’s going to take a ton to get to the majors. Just take the pressure away and give the guys a shot. Management acts like the guys in the lineup are tough to replace, when in reality we aren’t going anywhere with these guys who consistently prove that they can’t hit.

by duballers23 on May 23, 2011 4:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Good that Carter raked the big leagues after he finally got up. Oh wait...

And how Wallace dominated last year after he finally got his chance.
Oh and how long we couldn’t have Everidge and Carson and Watson in the lineup. Man we could have been in the playoffs if we played them the whole year.

by Rio on May 23, 2011 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well look at Wallace now that he actually got playing time

He’s batting over .300 and Carter was hitting much better his 2nd time around. Give me a break with the Everidge, Carson, and Watson remarks. We all know those guys are career minor leaguers. There’s a huge difference between 1st rounders and guys who were destined for careers in the minors. The point is, you don’t wait until your minor leaguers are 25 or 26 to get them in the majors. You have to let them play in the majors for them to get comfortable with it. I guess you’re just loving Kouz, Ellis, Barton, DeJesus, Suzuki, and Pennington all hitting below the average major league level.

by duballers23 on May 23, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure I exaggerated but I think your main point is wrong.

Lets keep it with the good prospects:
Carter was good but not great in AAA last season. After being called up he struggled and in the second turn he was better but still not a game changer. This season he struggled and is now injured.
Taylor wasn’t good last year and this year has only a handful of games. He has work to do (K% and power) and keep his heavy hitting going, then he will be an option at the end of the year.
Cardenas has struggled to adjust to AAA last two seasons. Now he seems to have figured it out. If he had a position right now, I would be ok with him in Oakland, but I would actually not expect better results than Kouz or Ellis.
Weeks has struggled with injuries the last couple years and his performance in AA was ok but not great. He is hot right now, but I would like to see even more dominance or that he keeps it up a couple more weeks. If he would be called up, like Cardenas, I would not expect better results.
All the other hot hands in Sacramento are older and therefore a good batting line doesn’t mean a lot. Miller, Carson, Tolleson, Timmons are AAAA players that might perform at replacement level in the big league. But you would like to see them only for short stretches of time.

We get to a point where it might be a wise decision to look a these guys in Oakland what they can do there. But I doubt they will be able to safe the season right now.

by Rio on May 24, 2011 3:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who wants to bet

that Bourjos’ first at bat is a bunt down the third base line?

by Johnny Bravo on May 23, 2011 4:18 PM PDT reply actions  

oh god this

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 23, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually kinda want to see them do this.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 23, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha same here

C-Jack probably won’teven remember what to do lol

by duballers23 on May 23, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bourjos, Aybar, Collaspo, Izturis

all those annoying-ass slap hitters can do it

by Johnny Bravo on May 23, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

My two cents

Wow, I dont think I can add anything that has not been said, but at the same time I feel like to add to this is the right thing. From a manager’s perspective, since I run and manage a staff of people and am responsible for motivation, I see no signs from the team that Bob Geren motivates anyone to excel. He is a dullard, boring and listless. And the moves he makes/doesn’t make are maddening. If we are frustrated by it, the players must be as well. Nothing sucks the wind out of a team’s motivation than having your efforts undermined by leadership. It’s almost like Bob was put in place to INSURE the team does not perform well.

Part of me wants to boycott the games, but at the same time, I am not going to allow Bob Geren and his bag of stupid ideas ruin baseball for me. I feel powerless to make him go away. A facebook page or chanting, banners or whatever; it all feels like a massive silly exercise, when the man I portrayed onscreen is purported to be intelligent, yet allows this simpleton to massacre game after game.

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 23, 2011 4:20 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

now THAT would be fantasy camp!

Hey everyone, sign up for OptimistPrime’s Fantasy Camp! One solid week of fun! You get to fire Bob Geren EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 23, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me first!

Pleeeeeeze!

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Will you let us improv the reason?

I’m sure some here would have outstanding lectures before the axe falls.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Since you signed up first you get

-A chance to kick Lew in the bladder
-A Chris Denorfia Jersey

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 23, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gee- That's a tough one.

Oh, what the hell! Lew qualifies for Medicare anyway. Besides, BB will enjoy the soccer kick to Lew more.

Will you pick the best person of the week the honor of actually firing Geren?

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

As "interesting" as it is to see Jackson at 3rd,

Josh Willingham not playing at all is once again frustrating. Our only consistent power-threat needs to play every day. No, he isn’t great, but he leads the team in HR’s – for a team lacking power, you’d think that would be a no-brainer.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on May 23, 2011 5:20 PM PDT reply actions  

So, here's the thing:

Idiot me, I suggested earlier in this thread that the A’s should try CoJax at third, and why not tonight?

Well, it turns out, the answer is: if, Reade (that’s me) you had been paying any attention at all to recent events, you’d know that J. Weaver is 0-4 in his last four starts.To*night*’s the game we might could steal! Now, I’m just a guy who follows the A’s, so I can be forgiven for my idiot idea to start CoJax…

Bob, however, is the manager. His job is to pick the best possible lineup, considering the splits, considering who’s been looking good recently (I know, I know, I effing know, OK, there’s no statistical verity n the “hot hand”. What I also know is, replacing someone who has been playing well lately with someone who has been riding the bench, is unlikely to improve things. What we don’t know about a “hot streak” is exactly when it will end, not that it “doesn’t exist”. What we do know about riding the bench is: statistically speaking, the PH, or the guy who hasn’t been used lately, is more likely to not be sharp- IIRC there are studies showing that PH’ing is statistically unlikely to succeed.)

Ass-ume this applies to D also. I would imagine it does. So, we are sitting Ellis (a rarity, no?) and replacing im with LaRoche, who hasn’rt spent much time at 2nd. We are replacing Kouz/LaRoche with Jackson, who has never (“never, ever? No, never ever” – Chris Rock, referring to othr matters) played 3rd in the majors.

tomorrow night we will presumably revrt to normal. But tomorrow we face Dan haren, who, although decisionless in his recent starts has pitched even better than his season totals.

Tomorrow is the night for the experiment: untried mystery-man vs. Haren, who has been pitching lights out. Tonight, we would have had a chance, but Geren listened to the voices in his head, and decided to try CoJax at third.

Wrong. I was wrong, and Bob is wrong. Hey, I’ve got an excuse: no-one in their right mind would hire me as a manager or lineup-card provider for a MLB team. He has no such excuse…

Plus, Willy rides the pine… We are toast. I’d prefer we just skipped tonight. Forfeit. It might wake their sorry asses up.

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 23, 2011 5:25 PM PDT reply actions  

The reason that Conor is at 3B is because Ellis is sitting tonight (LaRoche is filling in at 2B).

Unless Conor really impresses, I imagine the only times we seem him at 3B while Kouz is out is if Penny or Ellis needs a day off (like tonight, apparently).

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on May 23, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not really.

Bobo could start Powell at third and Saint Conor behind the plate.

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on May 23, 2011 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, that's probably worse.

My point still stands.

Tomorrowis the “whatever” night. Not tonight. Geren has just guaranteed a 7-game losing streak, when might’a, could’a, gone 1-6. Every team hits rough patches. The Gnats looked awful for periods last year, but the won it all. Maximizing your chances is a part of the managers’ jobs.

WTF Geren?!?!

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 23, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah sure seems like a dumb decision doesn't it?

Good thing Geren’s around. That means there must be some smart reasoning behind it!

Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!

by UrgentMirth on May 23, 2011 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's a thought:

Geren legitimately thinks he’s smart. Anytime he benches a hot hitter, he always says its due to career numbers against the pitcher. EVERY time. He thinks it’s smarter to go off a SSS, if he even knows what that is, than the better recent performer.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 5:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah it is not always wise to ride the hot hand

But at least make the overall career or season performance your reasoning and not a 4 of 10 “he owns that pitcher” sample.

by Rio on May 23, 2011 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Josh Hamilton of course homers in his 1st at bat

Sure nice if we had a hitter.

Joe Giradi is also a moronic manager.

With a runner on second and no outs, he walks Jose Bautista who has already homered. He puts two on with no outs and of course Escobar bunts them over putting 2 in SP instead of one. He then walks Juan Rivera who is a ground ball machine and pitches to Aaron Hill who singles, then a bases loaded walk makes it 3-1

Now a bases clearing double LOL

6-1

by Trainman on May 23, 2011 5:52 PM PDT reply actions  

giraridi is really really bad

worse than geren for sure

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 23, 2011 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

but he has more talent

so they can deal better with a sucky manager

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on May 23, 2011 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

And of course Willingham is not in the lineup tonight

3 BB’s and a HR is just not good enough to earn a start on this offense..

by TerrySteinbach on May 23, 2011 6:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Worst thing about this post

I see Geren’s vacant mug every time I open the site up.

"Hello and welcome to another wonderful and frightening night of A's baseball." - Gaijin_Suketto

by EddieVegas_NRAF on May 23, 2011 6:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Looking at that Angels lineup tonight, and it isn't much better than ours

shocking. Maicer and Aybar are good though

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 23, 2011 6:37 PM PDT reply actions  

OK GAME THREAD'S UP


CLICK CLICK

"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto

by emperor nobody on May 23, 2011 6:39 PM PDT reply actions  

HAHA

Great pic.

Don't move my team. Puh-lease?

by Kovu on May 24, 2011 1:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

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