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potential prospects and trades discussion


Hi everyone, I'm new to this blog, but am a lifelong A's fan 23 years of age and currently displaced in the Sac area. One of the reason I such a big fan is because of my admiration of Billy Beane and his front office and their moneyball tactics going after undervalued talent. , I find myself wondering about the current state of the A's and what potential they have. As I see it now, the A's have a huge hole at 3b similar to the likes of the hole at SS when bobby crosby was in town... (Kouz = new Crosby).  I love the new acquisitions this year in Matsui, Willingham, and Dejesus. They are all incredibly undervalued players with more hitting potential than anyone else on the club along with coco.  IMO they are underperforming and if they can get back to their near career averages, they A's will be in much better shape. Also, the Mazzaro trade is looking pretty good right about now.

Onto the topic of the post, the A's need to address the 3b position pronto if they are to compete this year for the series. The only internal possibility I see is Adrian Cardenas, who is hitting pretty well in Sac:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ibp&cid=105&stn=true&sid=t105

also note that Taylor appears to be back and better than ever, but can't say the same for Carter...

I think Cardenas deserves a fair shot and that Project Kouz should be ended and not dragged on like the Crosby saga.  I try to scout players around the league that have high potential and could be good impact players, but are not doing so well. Beane has a pretty good record for finding these guys: McCarthy and Purcey just for starters (well McCarthy anyway no pun intended).  

The current player I have my sights on is Sean Rodriguez on the Rays. He can play 3b and is not being utilized as an everyday player because Maddon feels like he's got better position players, which he doesn't necessarily (Sam Fuld is overrated imo).  My argument is that he has CARLOS GONZALEZ potential. That's right the guy we traded away to Colorado and almost was MVP. If readers aren't convinced, check out baseball cube's stat ratings (They're organized nicely into categories so it's like looking at pokemon stats... for those other nerds out there). 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/profile.asp?P=/sean-rodriguez.shtml
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/profile.asp?P=/carlos-gonzalez-4.shtml

both are the same age (born 85) and have similar minor league stats:

BA / OBP / SLG / OPS

1) .290/.348/ .484/ 832

2) .281 /.380 /.501/ 881
can you guess whose is who's? Answer: 2) is Sean Rodriguez.  My criteria for evaluating how good a hitter is, is based mostly on OPS. Players with high OPS have the most impact (duh).  My second criteria is batting average w/risp. That's a sign of clutch hitting, which the A's have historically lacked, but improved thanks to the offseason moves in Matsui, Willingham, and Dejesus (see my above comments).  
With all the hype surrounding up and coming desmond jennings in Tampa Bay, Rodriguez's job security and playing time is about as safe that of 12% of california (lame comparison, but best i could come up with). He could probably be plucked for relatively cheap and his returns could potentially be gonzalez or ethier -like. Maybe give up josh outman or a package of sorts? Hopefully the Rays have given up on him like they did with Delmon Young. Any thoughts?

Poll
What to do about 3b?
Give Kouz more time?
9 votes
Bring up Cardenas?
59 votes
Go Get S. Rod?
18 votes
Trade for another player?
21 votes
Cry our eyes out because Brett Wallace can play 3rd and is kicking ass now? ...
21 votes

128 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 555 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Please learn that minor league stats acquired in the Angles system are not to be taken seriously without park adjustment

Also you realize that if they were the same that over the last three years Rodriguez would have more than held down a big league job?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 18, 2011 11:38 PM PDT reply actions  

A's got to do something

I’m just throwing his name out there, but a guy that hits .250 in the majors with 25hr potential is a pretty good hitter for this team.

by falconsfury on May 18, 2011 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

No they really don't

Let me explain why you have no idea what you are talking about.

1. Trade talks do not happen in May, according to David Forst, the A’s assistant GM, speaking on the Up and In podcast.
2. The Rays have a far superior front office to ours. They would own us in a trade.
3. Young is not a good baseball player at all and they got a starting SS and a damn good starting pitcher for him
4. Rodriguez does not have 25 hr potential, especially in the Coliseum. Sickles last commented that he had “moderate power” and is highly unlikely to make enough contact to actualize his power potential.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmmmmmmmm........

1) I bet he says a lot of things to the public that aren’t so.
2) Everyone makes mistakes, and no one can predict the future.
3) Clearly, the Rays got the best of the Twins.
4) I agree, he’s not going to ever hit 25 HRs in a major league season.

by Brett Narloch on May 19, 2011 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Frost had no incentive to lie

The podcast was recorded last year and talked about process not A’s specific trades.

2) yes everyone does but the odds that the Rays own us are very good.

3) Agree

4) I agree with you agreeing with me

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why is this rec'd and not flagged?

To explain to someone why they do not know what they are talking about is a point of fact, not opinion, if one can demonstrate it. All teachers know this.

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but Falconsfury wrote a pretty informative piece, showing that he knows about the A's and is interested in making us better

and then, while Designatedforassignment seems very knowledgeable and likewise seems to care vastly for his team…..He absolutely acted like Kanye West at an Award show or that guy who races threw a yellow light while one is waiting to make a left hand turn, aka, a tool. No need to be so mean. Regardless of how much you may or may not know.

“Let me explain why you have no idea what you are talking about.”
Come on man, we are all A’s fans here!

Also, Paris7, only bad teachers would have responded the way he did.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't see the relevance of the Kanye or stoplight analogies.

But no matter. I agree that a good teacher would not have responded as he did. But I did not suggest that his was the best teacherly response. Only that this is what (many) teachers do, and that (many) teachers know this is what they do.

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree - there are many great teachers w/different teaching strategies

No doubt about it! And many bad one’s that make the student feel insignificant! The Kanye analogy, if one has seen or heard of his actions at Award Shows, was to highlight the air of the “toolness” from that post.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm... Not sure I understand what a "tool" is, in the Kanye context.

According to the urban dictionary, a tool is:

One who lacks the mental capacity to know he is being used. A fool. A cretin. Characterized by low intelligence and/or self-steem [sic].

This doesn’t seem to characterize any of the individuals involved. Are you using the word in an idiosyncratic way?

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

oh, growing up in a College Town, we use "Tool" much differently

Urban Dictionary is great, but is sometimes behind on certain vernaculars. On the Central Coast of California, a Tool is:
one who thinks he is something that he is not; is smug for an unfounded reason; has an extreme air of confidence that neither fits their outwardly appearance, nor their inwardly way of life. Basically, the use of “Tool,” on the Central Coast overtook aspects of the term “Douche,” but with a different variation. Many college towns are full of Tools.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

So quick to judge.

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

My question then:

How does one tell the difference between a “tool” and someone with true confidence?

Plus, if someone with low self-confidence calls someone else a “tool,” how would the listener know if the speaker weren’t projecting jealousies and his/her own inadequacies into the assessment?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

ISWYDT. Very nice!

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

its easy...

isn’t it easy to tell people who are genuine!?

But, what you said,

“Plus, if someone with low self-confidence calls someone else a "tool," how would the listener know if the speaker weren’t projecting jealousies and his/her own inadequacies into the assessment?”

And that is an obvious problem that could arise. But, if such a thing were to occur, the real and genuine person would just laugh it off.
I’d say it is easy to tell a “TOOL,” in a predominately college town.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Those damn colleges. Always making tools!

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

hahah

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha exactly!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is what you don't understand: The piece absolutely was not informative.

It contained huge factual and logical errors that plagued the piece and made is something that isn’t at all good. Not one of the assertions could logically follow its from its premise.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

well, yeah, I don't think anyone is denying YOUR knowledge of the A's...I've been following A's Nation for a while and I know you know your stuff

it was just the attitude about it. That’s all.
Go A’s!!!!!!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Fact: people really hate it when others say "you do realize that..." as a response

I’m either way on it, but it definitely does truly get people steamed around here.

The one thing I would have pointed out was that, for some inexplicable reason (SNTS?) people think Matsui+Willingham+DDJ are actually “really great” and people “love the acquisitions”. They are both only slightly better than league average.

Both Matsui and Willingham’s career best WAR was 3.0 and DDJ’s is 3.8 (although he was definitely headed for a 4-4.5 one last year before breaking his arm…but Ryan Sweeney owns a 3.9 one, so none of these guys are an upgrade over even him).

None of these guys are helping as much as Carlos Beltran would. I honestly think we should ease off Kouzlaroche because, well, there really isn’t anything else out there. We need to be focused on LF/RF/DH upgrades more than anything. SSS or no, these guys are historically not game changing offensive players, which is what we need.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Carlos Beltran has a NTC... can we please stop with this?

Why would a hitter who is coming back from being hurt approve a trade to a numbers killing haven right before he hits FA?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wrong.

-He plays on a bankrupt team looking to move all its contracts.
-Said team has 0% chance of making the playoffs.
-Beltran is in a contract year.

I don’t see why not. He has a NTC but he’s in a walk year on a go nowhere team….just like he was in KC when he went to Houston for those couple months. He hasn’t been brought up yet because its May and he’s mashing and they want to get the most value for him.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

you will never learn.

Why would he move to a graveyard before he hits FA.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

It makes no sense that ANY professional ballplayer

who counts on their offensive numbers to earn a living, would CHOOSE to come to Oakland; unless they are over the hill looking for a last gasp or coming off an injury and no one else is willing to take a chance on them.

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 19, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly!

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kinda like Beltre opting to go to Boston previously

Or any other player that’s ever chosen to pass on a place that limits offense before they’re in line for a new contract.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

right but its even worse than that with Beltran

the narative becomes: “he was hurt and sucked for three years, got hot, got traded, and the sucked more.”

who wants that going into FA?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Matsui was a FA and is probably on his last smaller contract. The A’s have a history of signing guys like that.

DDJ and Willingham were traded for and I’m assuming – unless told otherwise – that they don’t have no-trade clauses.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

which players were FA acquisitions again? oh yea 3/9?

please pretend to tell the truth.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

1.6% chance, says Baseball Prospectus.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

First I am not 22 and Ive been coming here far longer than 2 years contributed around 100,000 words to this blog. Who are you to tell me how to participate. If you really care about AN why don’t you comment more than 11 times since 2009? Huh? Im tired of people who don’t participate criticizing the few of us who do.

Secondly, Ill dismiss shitty ideas whenever and however I feel, including this one.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is it dude.

I come here to read, I’ve been reading long enough, thats all you need to know. I come here to see different viewpoints read about different ideas and to stretch my mind.

I do not come here to read only your ideas and fanposts Nor do I come here to find out what you specifically think about everyone else’s ideas. unfortunately one of the things that has weakened this site since the first two years or so is the arrival of people who shut down any conversation they don’t agree with by being (i have searched for other words…) an asshole.

So here we all are stuck. Hearing either your opinion or nothing. Because you are so self important that you will allow no conversation to move forward unless it is your conversation. Well you know man I’ve heard your ideas and they are the same every time. Let some new blood get a shot. And if you don’t like it hit the back button.

by throttle mathius on May 19, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It is difficult to believe that you actually searched for other words before coming up with the one you chose.

You could at least join in the “tool” etymological analysis elsewhere in this thread.

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

At least this is not rec'd.

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

And why isn't el croata's G ZUZ comment also getting flamed huh

It says the exact same thing.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not entirely

The stuff you covered is a bit different than someone making a fairly poor mistake of thinking Wallace is still a 3B and is still kicking ass. All that would have taken was a quick look at his splits so far to see where his games have been played at and what he’s done month-to-month so far. That was just the OP being lazy.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not really.

Thinking Sean Rodriguez is going to hit better than Cargon is probably just as bad a mistake.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Way to go welcoming a new guy.

You’re the one complaining about the decline in quality on this blog, but you chase away people left and right. Better to just say: “Welcome to AN. Here are some things you should consider.”

"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins

by justANotherAsFan on May 19, 2011 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Look any thought put out there would show that Sean Rodriguez isn't going to hit like Gonzalez.

AN didn’t use to tolerate that kind of stuff. I have no problem with the poster and it shows some potential to learn. But its a patently ridiculous notion.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's still no excuse.

If you disagree, then disagree. But why beat him into the ground? What does that accomplish?

by danmerqury on May 19, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

No, I know. And I agree.

Just thought it was a bit harsh, is all.

by danmerqury on May 19, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Obliterating?"

It would’ve worked just as fine with something other than “here’s why you have no idea what you’re talking about” in response to a new poster.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   5 recs

Which can still be done in a way that doesn't belittle the poster.

Look, I don’t disagree with you. It’s taken me about 7 years before I felt I had sufficient knowledge to even begin posting with any regularity, after reading a lot of your posts, dan’s posts, elcroata’s posts, PT’s comments, etc.

The poster clearly put some thought into this post. That thought was wrong, or at the very least, showed a poor understanding of a lot of what has become the baseline knowledge among the frequent posters. However, he identified himself as new, and, given time, and maybe a little bit of encouragement, could come around. He’s even shown a little humility, as seen in his response to you. Give him a little bit of a break.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

His response wasn't humble till below, which was after I made the comment.

Its a process:

Tear them down
Start the rebuild
Lunch
Tear them down again
tea
Rebuild

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

True dat!

That said, given he did provide a modicum of thought into the original post (unlike a lot of new posters), I still think the first teardown could have been more like a selective deconstruction. Then you could really tear into him after lunch, when he knows what to expect.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, that's fine for hardcore 24/7 BDSM relationships,

but maybe not a sports blog.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

what was your name before?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

We imagine all forums were better years ago.

In fact, they aren’t. It just seems like it when it’s still new to one.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

or when one is younger

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

The desire to deal with assholes on the internet is not equal to their quality of posts.

You are so wrong with this. If you truly believe this, you are delusional.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

can you rephrase?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone's ability to create quality posts is not necessarily proportional

to the amount of berating they are willing to take by some douche on the internet.

So if you want to help them become a great poster (the kind that you believe this place needs) you should try being nice and nurture them along. Not everyone grows the same way you did. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that people like that are fairly rare.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

In fairness to DFA,

I have to say that in this particular case falconsfury is already showing signs of being someone who takes the heat in good humor and is better for it.

Maybe he’ll be the next DFA!

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also was it really berating?

there were two comments from me and two from elcroata that weren’t kind but really is it that big of a deal?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are always people coming in and people going out.

People leave; that is unavoidable. It’s not even because they’re driven out. It’s just because life and priorities change.

You don’t keep a forum from dying by preventing people from leaving. You do it by not preventing people from joining.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

More importantly, for me it's about being tolerant of others

And I don’t see that tolerance when I see an attitude of “This place sucks now because there aren’t as many people here that /I/ want to read as there used to be.”

Basically.

It’d be one thing if that message was coming from the person who ran the site. It’s another when it’s coming from a regular user.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Several reasons

One your premise is wrong. Plenty of people care. Im just the most vocal.

Two I fail to recognize sunk costs and have tried to fight to improve things and against the decisions that have destroyed AN’s intellectual value.

Three people left.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I submit that what you're fighting to see more of is unrealistic to begin with

And I also don’t believe any particular decisions have destroyed any intellectual value here.

Nobody has ever been run out of AN for being too intelligent.

People have been criticized for being condescending and holier-than-thou, however.

When people leave they do so for their own reasons. Not all of them are worth worrying about.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

No one thinks that.

That’s the point.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Further, the quality of AN has never been a big deal to me

There are always going to be twits that come and go. I’m more about the participation and conversation with others here. That’s what makes AN good to me, not the ratio of so-called “quality” posts based on what a handful of people like or not.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

It'd be worse coming from the person

who ran the site, because that really would kill it. Communities must evolve. There are many ways for a community to be great. If you cling to the one particular way that it was great during your own golden era, you’re preventing it from growing into something else.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

True

But what I’m getting at – and something I’ve always said – is that people come here for different reasons. I enjoy just TALKING to people about the team. I’m not here to DEBATE things all the time. I’d wager that’s always been the case for most people here and on just about any sports blog you can find.

DFA’s reasons are the most important as far as he’s concerned, but they’re not the majority view. He acts like they should be.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Speaking of obliterating bad ideas...

In college a great deal of my classes were seminar style with class participation a large part of the grade. It was clear that people had done a range of preparation for each class, with different opinions and background knowledge. Even when it became clear on of my peers had not done the proper amount of preparation, we would not “obliterate” his or her ideas but work to reach a higher level of understanding. There are times that a harsher tact might be necessary, but approaching every situation in which somebody is wrong with destruction is both rude and counterproductive.

This guy doesn’t seem like a screaming, belligerent troll, so I think you should afford him the same respect you would show any human being you have recently met.

by RJames on May 19, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Really? In college if someone wasn't perpared we would absolutely destroy their arguments.

People stopped being ill prepared pretty quickly.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Guess we had different college learning environments.

Nobody would appease poor preparation or a wrong idea, but people were a bit more respectful in letting them down. I have been on both sides of the coin, and I know that I always worked harder in a class that was more respectful than abrasive.

by RJames on May 19, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I had a teacher like that once.

However, his mistake was that he only assigned 10% of the class grade to oral participation.

So, I refused to participate in the class discussions and turned in the rest of the work for a “B”.

I was going to slash his tire valve stems and glue the doors and locks on his car too, but I was starting to get into Buddhism big time, so I decided not to.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

But this isn't a teaching forum, dude

Hell yes, if I did a talk and didn’t have it together, I got reamed and rightfully so. But, no one expects this on a baseball blog where people come for their own enjoyment.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 19, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

If this blog is about coming here for individual's personal enjoyment, there is a problem.

I enjoy destroying crappy arguments and therefore your argument is moot.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

Even if what you are saying is true, there is a right way and wrong way to speak…

by Billy Frijoles on May 19, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't evolve by the minute

Whatever you believe in terms of language fluidity, there’s being harsh and not being harsh. You are harsh.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 19, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Dude... see below its a joke.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

At this point, we're beating a dead horse

DFA has already modified his tone in responses to the poster.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm reasonably certain > 95% of the people who post here do so because they personally enjoy it

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 19, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Your form of enjoyment sometimes is mutually exclusive of others who wish to enjoy this blog

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 19, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Again its a joke

But if I come here because it grants me enjoyment why should I minimize that enjoyment for someone else?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

right. like that ever changes my attitude.

look at my post history I always do this. tell people how they are wrong: if theyre asses I tear them a new one, if they express humility show them how to improve.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just went back and re-read the OP.

In no way was the guy an ass, so I don’t understand why you have to be an ass in your response. Sure, if you give him constructive criticism and he comes back as a total jerk, then fine. But jumping immediately to the “you have no idea what you are talking about” spiel is degrading.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't. I explained that you have to park adjust numbers

he responded well you have to do something.

Also I would just like to point out that el croata opened his thing

GZUZ and Sigh and nobody gave him shit.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

the inflammatory phrase was

“please learn that”

in DFA’s first comment.

In Japanese, it would be much more of an insult than in English, if it matters any.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's because...

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

you don't have the rep that I do... I know why

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Humility?"

Who are you, Chairman Mao?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 21, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

for whom?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

why is it good for me?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

right but cup created a individual centric framework for judging decisions

also Im still not convinced its better for everyone.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Im not really convinced that it is better for everyone

or why should I care since Cup stated that we make our own personal decisions to contribute based on pleasure.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

eh I wouldn't run it through google translate if i were you. Gives you wonky answers.

Try this

There is a humorous hole in your logic by which it implys support for my actions when you really didn’t mean it.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

it does

It kinda amazes me how much the “Why So Serious?” police just don’t get a joke.

I referred to both lunch and tea with my tear down analogy. Come on.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

I mean, I knew this already, but wow.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know if I agree that obliterating bad ideas is important.

Discrediting them is important, though.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm still trying to figure out

why having an opinion on a player can be wrong.

If anyone truly knows how a player and/or team will perform, let me know the secret so I can make millions betting on it.

The way I saw that this should go was:
1. Original post – our current 3b isn’t doing the job and we need a replacement. Here’s my suggestion, what do you think?
2. Reply – not quite sure I agree with that suggestion and this is why. Now this other player might be available and this is why we should get him instead (or our current 3b shouldn’t be given up on and this is why).

I think disagreeing with what you think are bad opinions and backing up why is important, along with optionally putting forward alternatives.

by ChuckBudd on May 19, 2011 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

In general, I agree.

However, discrediting an idea sometimes is necessary when it’s something that’s measurably incorrect, as opposed to merely being an opinion.

One blatant example would be something silly like Phrenology. Is it better to let people believe that they can predict and determine things about people based on the shapes of their skulls, even if that belief leads to medically and/or socially dangerous behavior, or is it better to discredit the idea in order to save society from its’ ill effects, even if it means disrespecting the people who stubbornly cling to the idea?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

To be fair

We’re discussing baseball moves, not anything that will kill people if someone believes it (unless someone wants to start a baseball team in Columbia with Doc Gooden, Darryl Strawberry and Steve Howe as the main signings).

by ChuckBudd on May 19, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

This remind me of something......

I remember coming to A’s Nation (after having followed the great information, banter, and humor as a non-member for a few years) during the dog days of Summer last year. I contributed to some in-game threads as well as commented on a few fan posts, etc. etc. Then, I proposed my own view on the off-season path the A’s should take in 2011…Well, my POST got many great responses, but got absolutely sh*tted on by 1 or 2 mean spirited and smug posts by a few ppl who assumed their knowledge reigned supreme. I appreciated their views though, despite them basically trying to run the “new guy” out of town…
So, at their insistence, (though I clearly overreacted by doing so) I deleted that account and left A’s Nation for a few months. Anyways, I’ve back on AN for months now, with a different name though, and have been loving being apart of each in-game thread and fan posts., etc. etc. And while I probably overreacted, I learned a lesson from that altercation.

Just to sum up though….in that post, I remember proposing that the A’s would attempt to spend more money than normal by targeting Beltre (which they did) as well as 2 or 3 other mid-level arms or bats (which they did to a certain extent), and I also proposed a few trade candidates, one being, wait for it, Josh Willingham and David DeJesus, among a few others as well…….SEEMS like I was pretty far off-base, huh!!? I guess the numbers we’re able to add up.
And well, almost everything I outlined in that post came to fruition! Despite 1 main A’s Nation poster, who will remain nameless (mainly because I forgot his name), screaming that the numbers wouldn’t add up, that I had no idea what I was talking about, that I should go back to UC Davis and change my major to Math, etc. etc.

Anways, just saying, we are all A’s Fans and we should all celebrate this team. If a fanpost is far off-base, it is easy to tell them so in a way that doesn’t alienate them. Our 1 common hatred should be of Bob Geren, or CJ Wilson, or, just for the hell of it, John Lackey.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

What was your original name?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can't recall exactly. But it was similar to my current name. I think it was something like

“A’sKingsDaRubies,” or a variation of A’s, Kings, and DaRubies

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do you remember the title?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

It was erased! I believe it was "2011 The A's Path Towards Success,"

or something like that. I deleted it after the beating I took! I then contacted Sports Nation and asked how to go about deleting my account. Obviously, I acted like a school girl in that retreat….But hey, I was so pissed!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

derogatory!?

I’m moving to Santa Barbara in 2 weeks to begin my job at a Law firm down there……
But this entire year I’ve been working as an after school supervisor at a local elementary school. Working with Kindergartners through 6th graders….And, let me just say kindly, that yes, I acted like a little school girl in retreating from my problems!! That isn’t derogatory. However, I made a softball comment a few days ago that, thinking back on it, may have been slightly offensive. And for that I apologize and will refrain from in the future.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

First saying like you acted like a little school girl is derogatory

like being a school girl is something that you wouldn’t want to be.

Secondly you made an Atta girl Daric comment.

Just stop.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

?!!? jeez man. SETTLE DOWN!

“JUST STOP!?” Calm down buddy. “Atta Girl Daric,” is good stuff. A man should act like a man, which I have done my entire life raising my three younger brothers! But, in that instance, I didn’t act like a man….get the comparison….I acted like the opposite of a grown man…!? I’ll take your comment to heart and refrain from any other comment in anyway about the opposite sex. Even if Beane targets Jennie Finch as our 5th starter for next season.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Quick note

You may have acted like the opposite of a grown man, but in that case you acted not like a school girl but as a child.

See the difference?

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, this stuff really gets to me

I wish people would stop

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 19, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agree with this sentiment

Having a hard time reading through this Meta.

by hishnik on May 19, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

hmmmmmm well I'm offended by your use of Meta

all things considered. everything is even.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes yes, I see it

Perhaps the “school girl” thing was wrong — I apologize to all school girls on AN. jk

But seriously though, I do see the difference and I obviously understand. I acted like a “child,” in retreating from my problems would have been much better usage.

And Future Ed, what gets to you!? My 1 comment during my duration on AN that may be seen as offensive for comparing my running away from a problem as acting like a school girl!!?!!?!?? YIKES. I work for a NON-PROFIT where I’m a loved member of my team and I’m great and fair with the diverse group of kids, parents, etc. I don’t know 1 of the families I work with who would have been offended by my kind nature and usage of such a remark in making fun of myself. I didn’t know people take so much offense to a commonly used “school girl,” comparison…ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ANY AMERICAN IDIOMS?! Yet, I will never use it again on this site, seeing how it gets to people. Thanks for your concern.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

derogatory language towards women

which is what you are doing when you say that you “cried like a school girl”

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 19, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

"I acted like a school girl in that retreat."

is what I said kind heartedly…but internet advances have only come so far, so you guys were unable to see my face and the way I would have said it!

Anyways, I love women and I’m as fair and understanding as they come. So I will refrain from any other comments about women, despite my love for them and their love for me.

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

trust me man, I understand and I apologize if I offended anyone!

I love AND respect women!! Always have. Bottom line. So, again, I apologize. Its all good!

Go A’S!!!!!!!!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

BOTTOM LINE!

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was just about as right as one could be

Minus the Beltre thing, but hey, we tried.
Didn’t see us going after Matsui at the time, but in hindsight, that was an escape plan…Would love to have Berkman right about now (even though I think he got hurt last night?).

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who are the Rubies? Is that a nickname I don't know,

or some old kick-ass garage band from the sixties?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

haha perhaps! My real name is Ryan, but my three younger brothers always called me

Rubies, Da Rubies, or Rypy. Then, it took that crossover from the household to the High School, and well you know how that goes. Whenever I’m back in my hometown now all my old High School friend call me that. You know how it goes!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are you from San Luis Obispo?

I grew up in MB and had to hit up Firestone to catch games for a long time – not I finally sprung for Extra Innings. Guess if you aren’t from SLO you will have no idea what I’m talking about.

by RJames on May 19, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah I'm from SLO!

Your from Morro Bay?! Nice. Of course I know what you are talking about. I used to catch a few games at Firestones myself. Miss those Tri-Tip sandwiches. What are you up to these days?

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm all about the ABC Burger.

Graduated school in Southern Cal and now I’m back for a bit working. Hoping to move on to Grad School or to a bigger city with a bigger job. Santa Barbara will be great though, good luck down there.

by RJames on May 19, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice! Congrats!

Damn, the ABC Burger, CLASSIC!
I’m always happy and proud to see locals doing their thing! Yeah, I can’t wait to move to SB and start my career! Thanks man!!

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

and Designatedforassignment

you weren’t the 1 who ran me out of town! I remember your name, but I can’t quite remember the name of the Financial Expert who discredited my entire post and was apparently attempting to get our Country out of its recession with his mathematical knowledge and number crunching abilities

My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time

by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on May 19, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

love to re-read that posting

BTW I just finished Lewis’s “The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine”. Highly recommend.

by hishnik on May 19, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

wow thanks, I'm glad you were here to save me from the error of my ways

Tough crowd here at AN. I wanted to start a discussion and appreciate all feedback because I have no one here to talk baseball with in Sac, let alone A’s baseball…

1. I have no idea what they do behind closed doors, but I imagine that even though trade talks don’t go down in May, there is at least some speculation and they’re doing some research looking into players with upside.

2. I trust Billy Beane for the most part and he’s been the most exciting GM in baseball for the past decade, with pretty good results (aren’t they making a movie about him?)

3. Time will tell on both Cargo and Sean. Who is Young? Michael from the Rangers??

4. maybe, maybe not? But he could be at least worth a shot if he can be had for cheap and it’s not like there are many options in AAA…

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Come back for more and youll learn enough to avoid these kinds of traps.

1 Listen to the Up and In podcast from Baseball Prospectus. You can download it from Itunes in the podcast section. The Forst episode is number 11 but I recommend all fifty. He basically explains the making sausage if you will of trades.

2. You shouldn’t trust Billy. Hes been a below average GM since the Haren trade.

3. Young is Delmon, he was traded with Brendan Harris for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett in the best young player for young player trade in the last five years. Time is not there to tell for Cargo and Sean Rodriguez. I doubt Sean Rodriguez earns as much WAR as Gonzalez has accumulated right now OVER THE REST OF HIS CAREER.

4. Look, you cant say “This guy is going to be as good as Cargon” and “this guy is going to be cheap” at the same time. If hes cheap its because no one thinks hes good. If people think hes going to be good then he won’t be cheap. The only reason why he would be both is if he is an undervalued commodity for a specific reason which you have not given, ruling out that possibility. Which are you picking?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

DFA

Yes, you provide informative/well-researched posts on AN which is great content for the community. However, I have absolutely no respect for you as a poster on AN with the way you treat other members on this site that may not be as well-informed as you are on the A’s.

You can enlighten these members in a kind way…you don’t have to be a jerk about it and have this holier-than-thou attitude.

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 19, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   5 recs

Newbies don't know they should just ignore you.

Then they leave, never to see their potential as AN contributors.

And then people like you complain that the blog isn’t the same as it used to be.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   5 recs

it was done with a kind heart

which you definitely appear not to have based off your posts.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I not saying we should, I'm saying the opposite.

DFA says he does it because he was hazed as a newbie.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I for one would elect that we don't

There really is no earthly reason I can think of for doing so.
I am reminded of recent events in the news where people who have been hazed online have committed suicide. Not saying that would happen, however, it has happened. Why not just act with some civility while calling someone’s ideas or proposals to task?

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 19, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

More people should act with civility here overall

There is no reason to attack new people unless they’re being obnoxious from the start.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

agreed, or anyone for that matter

such as a couple of guys bringing up DFA’s grammar again. Bit tacky.

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 19, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bah. I brought it up as a way to acknowledge his advancement as a contributor.

Hunter has been severely expressing himself in that “terrible twos” way. One of the ways you combat that is to show that you can get attention for doing good things too, not just for throwing, hitting, biting, spitting and crying.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Honestly?

Some of your behavior is childish.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

you're still ignoring that the phrase

“Please learn that” is what started this whole mess.

 If you had just omitted that one phrase from the beginning of your opening comment, there wouldn’t have been a problem in the first place.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see why that is not a pleasant phrase?

This was a response to a post I did which was thought to not have park adjusted (though I did)

Oh… thank you!

I can do your work and park adjust for the numbers you intended to be Year 3 production? I feel so lucky.

Funny, I never realized I had "I’m nice" tattooed on my body. That’s it, no more binge drinking!

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Oct 6, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up actions

But yeah Please learn is really over stepping it.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why do you keep acting like the way others handle themselves...

…is an excuse for you to handle yourself no better?

Whether you like it or not, saying things like “Please learn that,” “You do realize,” or “Here’s why you have no idea what you’re talking about” are generally rude especially when said to people you’ve never had an exchange with before.

Something like, “You might not know this, but you ought to take into account that stats by Angels minor leaguers need to blah blah blah” is MUCH more polite than the way you usually respond to people here.

I’m guilty of responding harshly to others at times as well, but at least I’m not under the idea that I’m not doing anything wrong when I do it. You’re acting like it’s someone else’s fault for either forcing you to act the way they have or if someone takes offense at how you word things.

It gets old sometimes, especially when it’s uncalled for. I know you’ve said in the past you don’t really care about why you should act better than someone else, but come on.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I can't help but point out your hypocracy LS

I once cited DFA’s attitude as a factor in the ongoing fall of the site and your response was:

So GTFO if you don’t like it anymore.

You wouldn’t be the first.

Glad to see you’re coming around though…

by Sacred#24 on May 20, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's two different situations.

You didn’t like DFA’s piece on the front page, and that’s fine. Don’t read it. Like I said, there is plenty of other kinds of content and no one has to like everything. You said that DFA’s attitude was part of the downfall of the site. Sure. I don’t deny that is removes some of the fun. But you were complaining about an opinion/fluff piece and DFA wasn’t targeting anyone specific or being a jerk in that original post. So if you don’t like it, then yea, avoid it or GTFO.

The situation here is someone else’s post that DFA disagreed with. I’m not discounting his opinions or facts on the matter, I don’t like his attitude that people he believes are wrong should be ‘torn down and rebuilt’ because it worked for him. If he thinks that the content is lacking, he can either contribute to it in a civil manner, or again, GTFO.

by LoneStranger on May 20, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, it is a different situation

However this attitude has permeated the majority of his posts. If there’s a piece on the front page tomorrow entitled “It’s OK to be a Dick if You’re Right,” I’m going to feel the same way as I did before and I’ll probably say something. Why? Not to be a jerk, but simply because I’ve seen what AN can be and watching Rome burn sucks.
 
The shittiest part of all this is that he has good points (in regards to baseball) that I generally agree with, and with any tact whatsoever his contributions to the site would be invaluable.

by Sacred#24 on May 20, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm with you, LS.

The two views are not mutually exclusive.

I wish DFA would be less rude and I wish everyone else would lighten up and not be so offended by it.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You didn't

The reference was to DFA and how he seems to justify his dickness based on being right. I can’t remember ever seeing someone on here that needs to constantly defend their intentions the way he does.

by Sacred#24 on May 20, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope, not at all.

Just pointing out that I know it takes a lot of time and effort to put together informative fanposts (like you and I have both posted), but you’re attitude toward others is totally unnecessary and makes me not give two shits about ever reading another fanpost written by you.

…and that’s the unfortunate part (at least I would think). People aren’t really going to care what you have to say after a certain point if you keep treating them like shit.

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 19, 2011 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also true

You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ

by bakerbeachboy on May 19, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a good thing everyone has different tastes regarding what's okay

Funny thing is a lot of people would agree with you, myself included, about some of what’s bad. They just don’t take it to the extreme you do.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

And really, if you don't like it and can't ignore it, go somewhere else.

But if you want to stay and try to fix it, belittling the people who are trying isn’t the way to go about it.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Remember years ago, when AN started having recaps after every game?

and I railed against it, calling it total filler… basically a redundancy of what was available on MLB.com or through AP…

yeah… good times.

AN has been a super high percentage of filler from the very beginning.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

And that's just part of how it was set up to be, I think

It’s not a place where the only stuff that can or should be talked about is some sort of deep analysis of things all the time.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Forgive the rudeness

Some people will insult any opinion they feel “not worthy”. Thanks for posting.

The greenmachine

by greenmachine on May 20, 2011 4:58 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

winner winner processed poultry dinner!

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Forst on the radio said that 2B is Jemile Weeks', and that "Josh Donaldson is playing 3B sometimes"

They may or may not feel that 2B is blocked, but the Donaldson argument was basically just a way around him saying he can’t play third.

by DDroney on May 19, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't have a large enough sample yet,

but at least Donaldson doesn’t SCARE me at 3B like Cardenas does.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

He was probably the best defender there in his college draft class.

So it makes sense.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

From the broadcast the other day, David Forst basically (in not so many words) said that he can't play 3B

They are still working on grounders/practice at 3B, but they don’t think his future is there.

G_S also said in person watching him at 3B his reaction time is slow.

And they aren’t having him play 2B (his natural position) because of Weeks.

He seems to be playing well in LF.

by Billy Frijoles on May 19, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Flashie likes what he's seen of Cardenas in LF.

I haven’t seen him in left yet, but I likely will early next week.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I apologize if I overstated.

If he’s better than Cust, I’ll be happy.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure he already is, in that case

And likely already better than Carter can be out there.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

yay!

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jeez

I’M better than THAT.

(Though I did play a good amount of OF when I was playing baseball)

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

How much value does cardenas lose as a LF instead of an infielder?

Is there any way to measure/evaluate this….Cuz a contact guy with no power as an infielder sounds a lot better than as a corner outfielder it would seem…It also seems trading Weeks or Cardenas in a deadline deal if we’re still in it might make sense because one will essenitlally always be blocked if the other works out, but then we have all those holes in our outfield and at 2b for next year…

Kiper+Fosse=Mute

by CorpseOfChavez on May 19, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

1 WAR

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

that assumes he would be both an average 2b/3b and an average LF

its probably a lot less than that, since he’s terrible in the infield and may have the athleticism to be above average at COF.

if he’s +5 UZR in LF and -5 UZR at 3b, its essentially a wash, no?

by NRC on May 20, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sigh
My second criteria is batting average w/risp. That’s a sign of clutch hitting, which the A’s have historically lacked, but improved thanks to the offseason moves in Matsui, Willingham, and Dejesus (see my above comments).

How about batting average with RISP and 2 outs? Or even better, how about the one in late and close situations? Now wouldn’t that be CLUTCH?!

Matsui, 2 outs RISP: .257 (31 points worse than career line)
Willingham, late and close: .242 (21 points worse than career line)
DeJesus, late and close: .252 (36 points worse than career line)

Of course I cherry picked the stats, because any analysis like that is nonsense…

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 1:14 AM PDT reply actions  

playing to potential

very few players have high batting averages w/risp and 2 outs, so i don’t think it was a fair criteria. The A’s over the last few years haven’t been able to drive in many runs irregardless of the number of outs. I’m hoping that these underpeforming guys are just “getting acclimated” to their new environment, but I think Josh Willingham has done a solid job.

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

The main reason the A's have failed to drive runners in

is because they are simply not very good at hitting.

Most studies (and there have been plenty of them) show that “clutch hitting” does not exist. Players who are clutch one year are not the next one (think Alex Rodriguez in the playoffs), players who hit well w/RISP do not hit well when the game is on the line and so on. Everything we know today indicates that the players perform very similarly regardless of the pressure of the situation – not better and not worse.

This is not to say that there is no such thing as “clutch” in general. I personally believe there is, or better said that there is such thing as being “un-clutch” (I utterly despise the term “choke”, especially when it comes from armchair supermen while commenting people who managed to become one of a few hundred best athletes in a sport where most everyone tried to do so and failed).

But, the thing is, if such people exist (the ones that do poorly under pressure) it is extremely unlikely that they will have made it to the Majors in the first place. You think batting with runners in scoring position on a sunny June afternoon is pressure? How about knowing that if you fail you will not get a scholarship and will not be able to attend a university? How about knowing that if you fail your family in, say Dominican Republic, will continue to live bellow the poverty level? How about the fear of realizing that you have given the sport everything you have and that if you don’t hit well this week you might never, ever make it to the Show?

There are so many hurdles and elimination rounds that MLB players have mastered before you and I knew they existed, that those “un-clutch” have been filtered out long time ago.

Of course, every now and then, someone will develop a new problem that obviously has foremost to do with the mind, like Chuck Knoblauch being unable to throw to first, but such examples are so rare that it seems to be very ill-advised to assign “clutch” or “un-clutch” attributes to players based on some pretty irrelevant statistical data and the emotions that we, ourselves, project onto such players.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

I love this reasoning about MLB selecting for clutch-ness!

It suggests that there is such a thing, but that its likelihood of showing up in a statistically relevant way in the MLB is minimal. The best one could do would be to find players who had been selected out along the way, and show that they had the same “true talent” but lacked “clutch.” Which is, of course, an absurd search. As a result, it is best to give up on talking about “clutch” and instead talking about our own emotions as irrationally tied to one or another player. After all, there is nothing wrong with such attachments, so long as we fess up to their source in our passions!

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

And it's small

Like, way smaller than platoon splits if I remember correctly. 5 points of wOBA? Something like that.

by thelincolndude on May 19, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know if this is gonna make sense or not, even to me...

but I think that clutchness is something that eventually will be measurable, but only in the future when players wear full body and brain scanners in their uniforms or have them embedded in their bodies.

It’ll have something to do with correlations between brainwave patterns, blood pressure, astrology, slightly increased reaction times, and better on-field results.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't

That would measure how calm/confident/whatever someone was in critical situations. If, however, their results were the same then who cares?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on May 20, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Unirregardless!

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

It looks German.

I’m imagining it pronounced “dine-shtall”.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup

there is deinstallieren in German. Although you are way off on pronounciation

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

G-ZUS!
Cry our eyes out because Brett Wallace can play 3rd and is kicking ass now? …

Brett Wallace can play 3rd? Third what, for it sure ain’t “base”.

And as for him kicking ass right now, after a hot first month, he is batting .204/.298/.367/.666 and striking out in 30% of his at bats

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 1:23 AM PDT reply actions  

true and good points

It’s always tough to see a trade go through and have your new guy not perform as well as the guy you let go. Hopefully we see good things out of Taylor in Oakland next year, I’ll be watching him play in town and hope for another Jermaine Dye.

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

SLAP ME!!!

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

But I am actually oblivious to pain

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

So true

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

36 games.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Its going to take more than 36 games to equal smoaks production though

He’s just really good at hitting….and he should have been ours :(

Barton’s potentially good, but Smoak is good.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

We drafted him and didn't sign him out of HS.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 20, 2011 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

How did that make him "should have been an A"

he wasn;t going to sign with anyone.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 20, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

And Smoak in particular made it clear that

he intended to go to college. Everyone knew it wasn’t going to be easy to get him to sign out of high school. Otherwise he would have been drafted a lot higher. Beane took him in a later round on the chance that Smoak might change his mind, but he didn’t.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was a mild surprise that he fell low enough

for Texas to get him. I think most of the mock drafts had him going a few slots higher.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

HRs are important

I know this will upset the Barton lovers, but HRs are important. A’s have got one guy, Willingham, that is a threat. Barton is not an acceptable starting 1B. I don’t care if he walks 100 times. Power must come from someplace.

The power hitting deficiences are so widespread you have look at A’s mangement for poor decision-making in this area. The division is there for the taking. As much as I love the A’s awesome pitching, I think attendance is hurt by the lack of hitting. The casual fan does not appreciate 2-1 games where the A’s have worked the pitch count up on the opposing starter forcing him out of the game, etc. I hope Beane is working overtime to improve the offense. This could be a great season with a couple tweaks.

by BlueMoon on May 19, 2011 7:03 AM PDT reply actions  

And again you are wrong

HR are not important, good hitting is.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Responses like yours

are what give this site a bad name. You don’a have to be a jerk when communicating your opinion. And you obviously didn’t do any homework. Take a gander at team homerun stats and you’ll find most of the top teams hit lots of HRs — even Clev., Cinn and TB rank high. And, the worst teams in MLB generally are at the bottom — Seattle, Houston, SD etc.

If you’ve no power, you better be a damn good hitter. Wade Boggs, Rod Carew good. Barton is not. I wish he was because he’s a good defender and has a great eye. He just doesn’t bring enough to the table — even on a good day.

by BlueMoon on May 19, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Aside from being right, he was also civil.
Take a gander at team homerun stats and you’ll find most of the top teams hit lots of HRs — even Clev., Cinn and TB rank high. And, the worst teams in MLB generally are at the bottom — Seattle, Houston, SD etc.

Well, duh. Home runs are good. Therefore, good offense usually hit more of them. Nobody’s arguing against that.

If you’ve no power, you better be a damn good hitter. Wade Boggs, Rod Carew good. Barton is not. I wish he was because he’s a good defender and has a great eye. He just doesn’t bring enough to the table — even on a good day.

Yeah, except he IS a good hitter. A .359 wOBA last year is great, especially in Oakland, of all places.

by danmerqury on May 19, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's sucked this year....

…and he sucked when he came up. And the guy can’t play any other position than 1B. And he’s made more errors this year than any other first baseman.

I would love to love Barton, but my patience is wearing thin. In 2011, the guy is NOT a good hitter. If he continues to be a bad hitter for another month, then maybe it’s time to consider cutting the cord.

by richwol1 on May 19, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

He may not be an entertaining batter,

but he’s a good batter.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

So is sour dough pancake mix

But I wouldn’t play it at first base.

by richwol1 on May 19, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

An honest question:

Do you watch the games, or follow them more often on radio or gameday?

If you watch a lot of games (especially in person), you’ve seen Barton’s footwork at first base. You’ve seen his stretch. The guy is a solid defensive first baseman, if not one of the top few in MLB.

His batting average is low because he’s been kinda unlucky. It’s not like he’s hitting little bloops and grounders for his outs. He’s been driving the ball right at people. Plus, he walks more than almost anyone, and I would assume everybody values walks at least close to as good as singles these days, right?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not likely.

People are dumb and believe ESPN and think you need DINGERZ111 and that singles and walks are for sissies.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I watch the games

Barton has made a lot of mistakes in the field this year. He’s also been unlucky at the plate. That’s why I say he deserves another month. But he’s also not been hitting like he did last year, and he’s certainly not been fielding like last year. No matter what the range, no matter how competent at stretching, ball players cannot make a constant series of fielding mistakes.

by richwol1 on May 19, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

A Couple of those throw to home errors were hard to watch in person

I do have to say however: Barton is the 1st one out on the field and really appears to have a great work ethic.

by hishnik on May 19, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

We need to see if Carter's thumb heals up before making that decision,

But I bet we’ll see a lot of CoJack at 1B because Geren wants to get Sweeney time in the OF.

by Billy Frijoles on May 19, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

The issue though...

…is that Barton can’t work out his troubles unless he plays. And if he doesn’t play, and can’t play other positions, his usefulness to the team declines. It’s really a lose-lose situation.

by richwol1 on May 19, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know if I would qualify a low BABIP as "troubles"

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

When he came up, he was 22.

And not really ready. He hasn’t been a good hitter in 2011…but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good hitter going forward.

by danmerqury on May 19, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

The same could be said of Travis Buck...

The question is how long do you wait, and how important is winning games?

by richwol1 on May 19, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

No one is blasting you for WHAT YOU SAID.

They’re blasting you for HOW YOU SAID it.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So which is it....

1) Words have definite meanings, or
2) Language is fluid and constantly changing.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

You realize that everything after like 1035 was not serious? right? I mean i did say so like four times?

But it is the exact same thing. There is a group of people who don’t like me and therefore think its their job to patronize and “teach me.” Its not about protecting the newbies, or being pleasant (just look the the responses to me, hardly upstanding pleasantry), but about having cover to take shots at me because they cant poke holes in my baseball analysis.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

lets talk about someone who has a pathological need to go into a dead thread and be an ass.

that person: jeepers.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 21, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is when I read the thread.

I don’t have oodles of time to surf AN every day. Also, what LoneStranger said below.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 21, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

There you go, telling me what to do again.

Count on it having the same results.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 22, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well you realize that you bitching has no effect on people like me and PT and yet you still do it.

Or maybe if you actually cared about baseball rather than sniping the two of us you would write a fanpost sometime in the last four years.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 22, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lol

Yep, has no effect all all. How many comments are there in this thread again? Good luck with your persecution complex.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 22, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

A lot of people criticizing don't want to poke holes in your analysis.

In fact they (and I) agree with it. They just don’t agree with how you’ve expressed it. It’s not about “protecting the newbies,” per se, as much as it is trying to preserve AN as a place that’s welcoming for people to discuss the A’s. When you (and, IMO, elcroata in his comment) make it a less inviting place by insulting the first thing that someone posts, the people who value AN as a community are gonna have a problem with it.

Fortunately, the OP had enough fortitude to not run away – cool enough.

All this being said, I think the same should be said about the reaction to borgnanophobe’s post yesterday, which felt like a mob mentality, IMO, as poor as the post was and as amusing as the subsequent hamburger-gate was.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

borgnanoprobe's post yesterday was a repeat of a blog posting a month and a half ago.

And it was really absurd that just because we’re tired of talking about the same things over and over and over again we’re somehow helping Selig brush the whole thing under the rug.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

borganoprobe= troll

falconsfury= a newbie who should’a had the criticisms directed toward his analysis phrased in a more friendly manner

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see him as a troll.

As that implies a purposeful baiting. I’m not sure his comments indicated that level of planning.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trolls do have to have some hindbrain, huh?

Maybe more

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then not a troll

But how would you call someone who shouts nonsense at people while sticking fingers in his ears?

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

A client?

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

hahahah!

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus, he had a history of below-the-belt comment(s)

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which begat similar comments back.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

I have no sympathy for someone who calls our player LaDouche, because he thinks that’s funny. This is not Waldorf school, not everyone has the right to be liked.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

My own personal response then would be

to respectably ignore him.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because you don't agree with him?

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because he hasn't shown a penchant to listen to reason anyway.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, you are strong willed person then

Great for you

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's something that is all-too-beneficial in my current job

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

I could have phrased my initial critique in a nicer way and seeing that OP was a good sport afterwards, I wish I had. I did put time into explaining the clutch concept without putting anyone down later – for what that’s worth.

Sometimes it is hard to separate the message from the messenger, though. Even if someone is new, when they repeat the notions that have been discussed often and that seem to be obviously proven wrong, the initial reaction is “No, not that again”.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I guess I got burnt on that once. I was the only one defending a newbie, who made a horrible attempt at baseball analysis, but I nevertheless encouraged him to keep on and very friendly pointed to his mistakes and how he can improve.

It ended up with him showing no intention to listen whatsoever and repeating how his imagined stat is great over and over and over. I lost my nerves with him, got into a quarrel with iglew over that and finally left the site for a while.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh, not the worst thing

People are going to prove what they’re really here for pretty quickly, I think.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh I remember that dude.

The good ones return like the phoenix. They have to go through the fire first though.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry I wasn't there to help, doc.

I usually do what I can to help the good-intentioned young’n’s.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

unhappy time for me too.

Possibly my worst quarrel ever on AN.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Emotionally, I agree.

However, I think the first thing to do when confronted with a post from a newbie that’s filled with flawed analytics is to, in the words of famed Mancunian poet Mark E. Smith,

“Check the log, check the record, check the guy’s track record”

It only takes a minute to look at someone’s recent posts and/or comments to find out if they’re looking to start shit, or just looking to add to the conversation without realizing that there are a bunch of really smart people in the audience ready to tear apart analytical flaws.

Then, we can tear apart the analytical flaws in a spirit of welcoming friendliness, and explain things and give links, and it can be a nice process and we can maybe make some new friends, OR, if it turns out the person is a troll, KILL THE TROLL.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure

If someone does everything perfectly all the time – he’ll do that. I don’t.

And there are newbies and newbies. Some get to posting right away, others read first, comment later, write posts even later. Those will not repeat so many of the other people’s mistakes.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's the ones who create a brand new account and immediately post...

…some crap that’s already been discussed to death that I get wary of.

Same with the ones who have, say, 5 posts and like 10 comments.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm not there defending too many of those.

Those all sort of fall under the NoobDoza line.

This post, however, is slightly over replacement.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

An unintended consequence of the gorilla

that AN has become.

Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day

by PDXAthleticsfan on May 19, 2011 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

And this is the difference between you and DFA.

When someone calls you out for being rude, your response is something like, “Yeah, I guess I could have said that better, but see why that post is frustrating and understand how I might have responded that way without any real ill will.” Whereas when someone calls out DFA for being rude, his response is … well, scroll up and take a look.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 19, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

That doesn't explain why I was called out in the first place and El Croata was not

its a Pavlovian thing for some.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

By the way

He already wrote an “I could have handled that better” comment.

You’re taking the “What’s the big deal? I was justified and in the right” reaction.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Neither has yours been

Humility is a good thing sometimes.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

You were still unnecessarily rude right off the bat, whether you agree or not

This is one of your character flaws, at least in how you conduct yourself on AN. You may see it as being honest, blunt, straightforward, etc. but that’s not how it comes off.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You really don't know that.

What you do know is that after more than three years of fighting with me you choose to interpret what I have written in that manner.

Just as you choose not to interpret similar actions by El Croata that way.

You have no idea what the OP thinks of what I said.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're still going at it, dude?

I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with FF that you come off unnecessarily rude sometimes.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 19, 2011 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Im pretty sure none of you have experience me writing on your first fanpost

so you cant speak from that prospective.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

True, but it's not like you reserve your criticisms for new posters

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 19, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd like to chime in here, although you didn't criticize or praise my piece in your comments on my first fanpost

Rather you just discussed the general topic I brought up (which is absolutely fine of course).

If you had come in completely bashing it however, I can definitely say that I would have felt discouraged toward writing another. You alone certainly wouldn’t have driven me away or prevented me from writing another one (I think people are acting like you have much more power over new posters than one individual really does), but I feel like people are more sensitive about their first fanpost than subsequent ones.

I have no problem with you being critical of a post’s content, but I think it would behoove you to do so in a more positive manner when it’s a new poster you’re addressing. People aren’t going to learn and improve if they feel mistreated and feel like the community is more interested in them shutting up rather than learning and trying again. Unfortunately, from my perspective at least, you come off as being in the former camp quite often in these types of comments. Whether or not that’s your intention, I can’t say, but I only have what you actually write to go off of.

Well that’s enough Meta out of me.

by UrgentMirth on May 19, 2011 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was just listening to Kevin Goldstein at BP

and he was talking about how he loves siting next to scouts because they make him feel stupid and thats the best way to learn about baseball.

Im not alone in this view.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does Goldstein do free podcasts?

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on May 19, 2011 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes. Up and In. it can be downloaded on Itunes.

its what AN use to be. Funny, irreverent, smart, tangential, and post modern art discussions exterior wrapped around a caramel baseball center.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you have an idealized vision

of what AN used to be. And a cynical view of what it is now.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 2:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Up and In podcast =/= AN

comparing apples and oranges, man. I love them both, though. I’ve learned a lot about scouting from those guys. I’ve also made almost all the recipes from Up and In.

Now I just need to find some Brooklyn Summer Ale.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 20, 2011 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

The problem with that is that KG is in a much different place.

His spot in the community, so to speak, is very well established, and he has a lot of experience. At that stage, jumping in with people who are way out of your league knowledge-wise and being shown how much you don’t know, is great.

For a new poster, who is unsure of where they may stand in the community, being made to feel stupid is not nearly so productive.

(OT, but I’ve never listened to his podcasts. They sound like something worth checking out)

by UrgentMirth on May 20, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

They really are

They’re a little long though; at least 2 hours an episode.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 20, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, alright, good to know.

Not something you can get through on your lunch break then.

by UrgentMirth on May 20, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

No thats on how you choose to veiw interactions.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fine. Continue to take no responsibility whatsoever for how you act here...

…and stop complaining about it when people call you out on it.

That’s your solution.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

As it's been mentioned many times before

This has never been about the accuracy of your points, but in how you present them.

That’s the issue you have.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't know

Why is it so difficult for you to understand it’s not just what you say, but how you say it?

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The strength of your self-delusion is awe-inspiring.

There is an evening coming in/Across the fields, one never seen before,/That lights no lamps. -- Philip Larkin, from "Going"

by Ray of Lite on May 19, 2011 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

DFA, I will go ahead and blast you for what you say

I realize I’m late to this argument and I’m sure there’s a better place to post this, but here goes: Why do you assume that your posts actually enhance the quality of this blog? In this thread alone, you’ve argued that:
1) Carlos Beltran would veto any trade tot the A’s because we play in a pitcher’s park (27th best park for hitters) without mentioning that he already plays in Citi Field (26th best park for hitters). I think the idea of trading for Beltran is silly, but that’s beside the point.
2) That players due for free agency hate playing for Oakland because it’s a pitchers’ park, even though a) GMs are fully aware what parks are good pitchers’ parks and make their FA offers accordingly (see: Adrian Gonzalez), and b) the list of players who have accepted less money to not play in Oakland is much shorter than many A’s fans would care to admit.

In the past, I’ve heard you argue that Fangraphs is wrong to penalize DHs in WAR because a bunch of utility guys like Kevin Millar and Omar Vizquel with 40 ABs at DH bring the numbers of the “average” DH down to mediocre levels. Or when you predicted that a bunch of 1st rounders weren’t going to sign one year because there were a bunch of guys still unsigned the day before the deadline (note: guys who are signing over slot always sign near the deadline even if terms have been agreed to well beforehand. When I pointed this out to you, you said that it would be different this year because teams would get compensation picks if they failed to sign their first rounder, even though that rule had been in place for like 7 years at the time. Of course, almost all the 1st rounders ended up signing). Then again, where would this site be without your 20,000 words on the A’s being contracted (I could have summed contraction up in less than 10: “Leverage play by Selig, not going to happen.”) And that’s just a fairly infrequent poster going from memory – kinda different from you mining through years of a good poster’s comments and re-printing the comments that make them look stupid, like you did to Nico in the Mazzarro thread the other day.

I do enjoy some of your posts. But the point is, you can be wrong. Really, really wrong. That’s not meant as a criticism – hell, I loved the Holliday trade, thought Sean Gallagher’s stuff was electric the first time I saw him as an A, and expected the A’s offense to be half-way respectable this year. Often times, I’ll think Nico or Dan or Vignette or Elcroata are wrong, and if I have the time, I’ll call them on it and engage in a little friendly debate. But I do so with the basic sense of civility and respect that is found in the college classroom discourse that you’re supposedly trying to emulate.

I’m not saying that you can’t still call people out. Usually, I just roll my eyes when I see someone propose the latest iteration of a Rasmus/Wright/Kemp/Beltran trade. Sometimes, I’m just curious to hear what a poster’s thoughts are even if I don’t think they’ll add much to the discussion. On occasion, I’ll call them out. But when I do, I recognize that their post was not meant as an affront to you, me, or AN. They just wanted to discuss the A’s with some like-minded fans, and, in the process, said something dumb. Of course, you are pretty cavalier about laying into posters who do take time to write well-reasoned posts, so I’m not even sure that’s the issue.

Also, the reason why people don’t criticize your long posts is because people are nice. Back when I posted a lot on this site under a different name, I saw a frequent contributor write a series about the A’s in the next 5 years, predicated on us signing Vernon Wells to a $200 million deal and starting guys like Robnett and Putnam (this was in 06, when our farm system was pretty bare). I saw another frequent contributor write a long article about “the curse of the power hitter” (also in early 06, when Thomas was struggling and Bonds was in some steroid mess – of course, they both ended up doing great). I was surprised that so few people criticized each article, but after criticizing each in perhaps too harsh a way, I realized that the posters had put a lot of time and effort into the respective posts, and I should have probably engaged them in a nicer way. Even if they were kind of a dick.

by swatnick on May 21, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Yeah so you are just wrong on most of this, but I thank you for actually challenging the baseball.

From statcorner

PARK FACTORS (LHB/RHB)
K: 100 / 100 GB: 99 / 100
BB: 99 / 100 OF: 103 / 100
1B: 99 / 100 LD: 99 / 99
2B: 99 / 100 IF: 104 / 100
3B: 107 / 120 HBP: 96 / 102
HR: 90 / 94 wOBA: 99 / 100

Basically Citi Field plays as a league average park.

PARK FACTORS (LHB/RHB)
K: 101 / 94 GB: 98 / 99
BB: 101 / 101 OF: 93 / 100
1B: 96 / 95 LD: 107 / 105
2B: 87 / 93 IF: 113 / 106
3B: 118 / 92 HBP: 96 / 100
HR: 91 / 78 wOBA: 95 / 94

Oakland is much worse. Why would he want to risk going to Oakland? Gonzalez was still an elite hitter in terms of counting stats, and suggesting that one of the top 5 most SABR teams knows how to park adjust but others don’t isn’t really that far of a leap. Further, Im the guy that thinks that the A’s make early substandard FA offers in order to boost the “FA don’t want to come here so we should move to SJ” meme, so I am really not sure why you are taking that angle with me. Lastly, its the narrative problem which is specific to Beltran’s recovery that is problematic, because it is difficult at times to distill what is decline in production and what is hitting condition related if he falls off in the middle of a recovery.

I have never written on the A’s being contracted, let a lone 20,000 words about it. That was NSJ.

I don’t remember writing about less signings for draft picks, but there have been more first rounders not signing in the last three years than any time in the draft era, so Ill take credit for being right on a dramatic increase in nonsigning draft picks.

As for the DH position penalty I never suggested changing it as far as I can find in my search. I did find us having a discussion about how YOU wanted to exclude Vizquel and others and only focus on “regular” DH’s. And yes im still right in that regard.

So basically youve got nothing on me baseball wise. But again thanks for playing. There are plenty of things im wrong about if you power search me, or look up my On Baseball and Humility fanpost where I talked about past mistakes.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 21, 2011 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look at the last few years

Since Citi Field has opened, they’ve played about the same. I mentioned the FA thing because the “FAs hitters don’t want to play here” meme is fairly synonymous with the “no one wants to play in Oakland and its crappy stadium” meme even if you’re one of the rare few who believes in one and not the other. Most of the guys who have not signed the last couple years have been because of medical issues or financial issues with ownership, but this was a few years ago anyway.

Ok, I confused you with NSJ on that one thing. I still think some of your long posts have been good while others have not. I still think you are pretty quick to dismiss people for reasons that you’d find pretty spurious if anyone else was presenting them. For example, I don’t think we should train for Sean Rodriguez, but I think it’s silly to argue that we shouldn’t go after any trade with Tampa Bay because they have a good front office. And I"d imagine you’d have found it silly if anyone else had presented it.

by swatnick on May 22, 2011 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I'm gonna side with elcroata on this one

He knows a little more about what he’s talked about here than you do.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Saying that someone is wrong

is not necessarily being a jerk. You might find it that way, but I do believe I was being civil.

As for who has not done his homework, we have differing opinions. You have looked at 6-7 teams in the standings, I have read studies of very smart people, took time to write a simulator and compared sets of 100, 000 games for teams with or without home run power. I guess you are convinced you way is thorougher and better. I am not.

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hi, Moonie.

It is frustrating that Barton hasn’t put up any dingers yet. But you’ve seen his plate eye, and how he fouls off a lot of pitches. Dude gets on base.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

NAME ONE.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

YELLOWSTONE.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Suketto

I am sorry, but I want more out of my 1st baseman. Even if he was walking and hitting .275 its not good enough. I’m old school on 1B. Give me McCovey, Killebrew, Fielder, Boog Powell, Albert P, M. McGwire, etc.

If Barton played SS I’d be happy. Home run power is like having hand — it’s good to have hand. There is big value to not needing to string together 4-5 hits to score a couple runs. Didn’t anybody see the great A’s of the 70s or the Bash Brother A’s?

by BlueMoon on May 19, 2011 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah give me a HOFer because anyone else sucks!

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Barton was one of the most valuable first basepersons last year.

the 275 with walks guy you describe is, like DFA says, a HOF candidate

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 19, 2011 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Man, I'd love to have one of those cats at 1B, but they're so RARE these days.

Other than teams like the Reds and Yankees and Red Sox who play in little tiny parks, everybody’s having to string together hits and walks to put up crooked numbers.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we had 6 players who were OPSing 850 with 0 HR

We’d be in first place by about 5-10 games by now. HR aren’t as important as not making outs.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just FYI

  The A’s had a trade offer from the angels for Micheal Weurtz which would have given the A’s Sean Rodriguez and they turned it down. Sean is a good utility player but will only produce average numbers through out his playing days. The Angels farm stadium are hitting parks and do not show the real power numbers of players. See Woods for this.

by Arcman on May 19, 2011 7:25 AM PDT reply actions  

I didn't know about that

I think Wuertz is too valuable to give up for unproven Rodriguez as well. Good call on the A’s part. My favorite A’s player is/was Marco Scutaro also a utility player. Marco magic went on to be pretty good for Toronto even in his later years. Rosales is a pretty good utility player too and kouz is probably just an overhyped utility player realistically…

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

PECOTA likes Sean Rodriguez a lot more than Kouzmanoff FWIW.....270 TAv to .248

ZiPS likes Rodriguez a little more….321 wOBA to .312, which with Park Effects might not be that different. If we can get Rodriguez for a bullpen arm, like say, Fuentes or Ziegler, I’d do it.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on May 19, 2011 7:58 AM PDT reply actions  

I never looked too closely at that myself, but I can see how it's more useful

For reference, taking their chart of a few examples of wOBA from last year, here’s a comparison:

Hamilton: OBP .411 / wOBA .447
Choo: OBP .401 / wOBA .388
Rasmus: OBP .361 / wOBA .366
Kendrick: OBP .313 / wOBA .317
Molina: OBP .329 / wOBA .299
Izturis: OBP .277 / wOBA .248

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I see it also lists the average wOBA at .321

I don’t know if BB-Ref has a full MLB average OBP but last year it was evidently .329 in the AL and .328 in the NL.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 19, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the post

Thanks for taking the initiative and time to write out a nicely argued post. I don’t have much opinion about this stuff beyond, “Winning Good, Losing Bad.” so I can’t speak to the logic of it but I agree that the A’s need another power threat. I am still hopeful Matsui will kick into gear at some point and of course The Hammer is looking good.

The real problem with Kouz is the “throwing balls into the seats” thing. I don’t like that a lot more than I don’t like his hitting (which I also don’t like, but I know he has less control over).

So…. Welcome!

Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell

by fridaynightfan on May 19, 2011 8:47 AM PDT reply actions  

hoping his bat turns up

season is quarter way through and who’s to say they won’t go on a huge hitting streak reminiscent of the A’s glory days of powering through the summer. I remain hopeful as well and thanks for the feedback

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I Would Actually Prefer Callaspo Over S-Rod

The main reason that people want to get rid of Kouz is because he’s not hitting. Callaspo is getting on base a lot and can score runs, and he has decent speed. His fielding isn’t bad, either.
Rodriguez, while he’s a decent player has hardly any pop and doesn’t have much offensive potential.

by Jason James on May 19, 2011 9:05 AM PDT reply actions  

I've noticed him as well

I don’t know much about him and haven’t looked further, but it seems like the Angels get these guys every year. Also hesitant to make trades within the division, unless its to seattle cus they seem to like the A’s rejects…

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kouz had that decent 2-RBI single yesterday

Did ok in the angels series as well…maybe we can hope?

by Billy Frijoles on May 19, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Welcome to the site, falconsfury

Keep posting …. please.
Personally, I don’t mind it when someone posts an opinion that hasn’t been thought-out completely. This is a sports blog, for cryin’ out loud. This isn’t life or death stuff.
Also, I don’t mind it when/if someone acts like a king-sized A hole and criticizes the person for it … again, sports blog – not to be taken seriously.
What I DO mind is when someone cries about A-hole #1 being called exactly what he is – a jerk – and then whining and crying about it “being flagged.” Can we stop with this “running to mother” kind of mentality?? My goodness, it’s so lame. We can treat people like complete crap on this site, and it’s often encouraged. But write something like “running to mother”, and there’s 15 responses about how that disparages mothers everywhere, and it’s patently unfair to fathers, etc. etc. We’ve got it backwards.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on May 19, 2011 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Interestingly, the grammar police have been silent on this one.

The OP is a stylistic monstroity. Solidly edited posts get more respect, well-thought or less well-thought.

"Of course, vignette17 and nevermoor in the lead. Someone check their keyboards for ’roids ;-)" - cuppingmaster

by paris7 on May 19, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not so interesting. In this instance, a lesson in etiquette is far more important than a lesson in grammar.

There is an evening coming in/Across the fields, one never seen before,/That lights no lamps. -- Philip Larkin, from "Going"

by Ray of Lite on May 19, 2011 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can we talk about trades here?

We’ve got to try to make a deal with SD, I think. Headley, Darnell, and Jedd Gyorko are three guys who would slot in perfectly. The latter two have questions about their defense but they can flat-out hit, and Headley would be a solid upgrade.

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on May 19, 2011 12:14 PM PDT reply actions  

And why would they trade Headley for anything the A's offer?

There isn’t a package that I would want if im SDP that wouldn’t involve one of the A’s starters or would completely gut the system.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Except for our starters, I really don’t see anything anyone would want.

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 19, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

They might want Green Krol Stassi and Choice

but I don’t think they would do anything short of that.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

based on what they have traded for in the past (MLB ready guys)

perhaps Krol. But with the up and down performances by the others, I don’t know that it would be enough to pry away a proven MLB hitter.

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 19, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree. And thats a trade we cant make

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, so Darnell or Gyorko

Darnell does have serious defensive questions, though

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on May 19, 2011 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, I think there's a deal to be had here.

We are not trading Headley, that’s off the table. But a trade of James Darnell (.368/.463/.654 in AA) and Kyle Blanks (.306/.350/.486 in AAA) for a package including Choice is a definite possibility.

The reports I’ve heard are that Darnell, while limited athletically, is playing a much improved 3rd base. He probably won’t be more than average there. But the bat is back with a vengeance. He projects as a 25+ home run hitter. Don’t discount Blanks either. He’s tremendously strong and surprisingly fast and athletic for a guy as big as he is. Part of his failed 2010 campaign was caused by an elbow injury. A change of scenery could do him some good. A shorter stroke will help him utilize his natural all fields power.

It’s probably better to wait. If Darnell keeps hitting like this all season he’s an elite 3rd base prospect and we could probably trade him for a package deal. Or not. What do you think?

"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
"I Hate SF" - The Chosen One.

by padmadfan on May 20, 2011 4:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

My Take

We are currently in a “Win Now” mode. I would much rather trade for an established 3B, and there really aren’t any out there… unless we trade for David Wright.

We have Stephen Parker in AA – I’m not sure that James Darnell projects to be a lot better than Parker at this point. Would Parker be putting up similar numbers as Darnell next season in AA?

What about trying to pick up someone like Aviles from KC? Ian Stewart from Colorado? Platoon LaRoche and Aviles/Stewart at 3B/Utility.

by Colorado Fan on May 20, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think

Darnell projects to be much better with the bat than Parker. Much better.

I don’t want anything to do with Aviles and I’m a little gunshy about Stewart these days…maybe he’s just not that good

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on May 20, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who do the Padres want?

You mentioned Choice. What is it about him that you like and/or is a good fit with the Padres? What other sort of players would you be looking for in terms of position, age, etc.?

If a trade is built around Darnell for Choice, which side needs to add and how much?

When would be the ideal timing for this trade? Right now? at the deadline? after the season?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I'm just floating the idea out there seeing what you guys think.

My feeling is that Darnell is plenty enough to land Choice and a second tier arm. I’m trying to come up with a scenario where both sides get good value in the deal but…it’s not really a secret that the A’s farm is picked clean at this point. Is now is the right time for this deal? I don’t know. I have as many questions as you, this is all very preliminary. My feeling is that this can wait until after the draft and all star break. Once people feel they have redundancies in their systems or aren’t serious contenders we’ll have a better idea of the market.

"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
"I Hate SF" - The Chosen One.

by padmadfan on May 20, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even though its been beaten to the ground here

we kind of need Matt Kemp in a corner. I’d start the deal with Chris Carter, who could immediately go to 1B for them and mash a few out to erase the memory of the worst 1B of all time being their full time guy for too many years. Dunno what LAD would ask, definitely prospects though, they aren’t looking to spend any more money right now, thats for sure.

If Minny goes full rebuild I wonder if we could snag Span+Kubel from them, they’d fit here too.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 12:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Just a brief announcement

The A’s game is about to start, so perhaps everyone could just had out this door, right there, thank you, keep walking…

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 12:32 PM PDT reply actions  

I can haz game thread nao?

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 19, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rotwurst w/Brattkartoffeln easily beats In-N-Out's best offer!

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

sorry Bloomie

you gotta eat Cro on that one

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 19, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bratkartoffeln

Yes, AN even has GERMAN grammar and spelling police!

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on May 21, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

And a good one!

That was probably my worst outing in spelling/pounds-eaten category

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 22, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

i LOVE YOU.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know.

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on May 19, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have nothing nice to say so I won't say much

But I don’t think an informed fanpost every few weeks is worth weekly fights and belittling of new members by those who haven’t learned the social graces expected by the rest of us. Every time this comes up, I see myself back in 1st grade trying to win an argument with another kid who is just mad at the world and is taking it out on me.

Ah well…. got to learn to laugh it off. Take the good with the bad.

by DrDoom on May 19, 2011 2:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Now that I think of it that way, I feel a bit bad about how I used to be when I was younger.

A kid would pick on me and pick on me, and then sometimes months later, I’d explode at some tiny provocation, and do something like throw him to the ground and kneel on him while rubbing the back of his head into the asphalt and rocks until he had a bleeding bald spot and had to wear a cap for the rest of the school year.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like an earthquake.

It’s easier on everyone else if you let out a little at a time instead of all at once.

by LoneStranger on May 19, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sweet Meta, guys. Well done.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 3:30 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

this thread has dfa puke all over it

really gross. an sucks when that dude has a bad day.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

wow this got out of hand in less than 24hrs

ok, just checking back in. almost time to leave work now. My original intention for this post was to start some talk about potential trades and players the A’s could acquire to help the team, since that is my interest. Sean Rodriguez, while making some bold claims, was a guy just to get the ball rolling. I guess this is kinda like first time hazing or so… Thanks hero66 for continuing this original topic, I would love to hear more about these players.

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 3:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Well, you had a first one to remember

Good night all (I totally expect this thread to have 1700 comments by the morning – perhaps someone can be insulting to me in one of my PxP threads to up my comments average a bit)

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 19, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

So this is what you should do.

Write a fanpost about acquiring Todd Frazier from Cincinnati. Look up what sickles, BP, BA and Dirt Doug at his Reds centric prospect site say. The propose someone we would give up for him. There is some old info in my Possible Trade Partners: Cincinnati Reds post from 09.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Frazier has looked really really good this year at the plate

Pretty sure I read in a BA Hot Sheet or chat a couple weeks ago that he can hold his own at third, now, too. Would the Reds give him up, though, with Rolen aging?

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on May 19, 2011 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

What would you suggest?

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on May 19, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fuentez + Salary relief?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fuentes costs a shitload.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Id eat all of it.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

That works.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Im a hungry hungry hippo

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sell high on Breslow?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

that would have been last year.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 19, 2011 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

still has an ERA under 4

and I thought we should have traded him then too, due to Geren’s over use.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Weurtz, too.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

No I meant trading him before

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sean Rodriguez?

I don’t think they would have done that.

"Once you go Bed....everything else is dead." - Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on May 20, 2011 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

You think that would work?

I don’t really that they need another reliever

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

http://www.domingobeisbol.com/

by hero66 on May 19, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

out of hand, or......

an SB Nation Editors pick? LOL!!!!

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is strange

2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too

by elcroata on May 20, 2011 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

So looks like we need to make some moves...

Need a new 5th starter (call up Outman?), reliever (Devine?) and some others… (Cardenas, Weeks?)

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

by Zonis on May 19, 2011 4:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Trade Idea

With Crisp, Sweeney and Jackson doing so well, I don’t think we have need for both Dejesus and Willingham. I say we use 1 of them as a trade candidate if we want to fix our spot at 3rd.
(not in any order)
1. Trade for Polanco. His salary is only 5.25mil in 11’ and 6.25mil in 12’ and a 5.5mil option for 13’. Yes, he is old but his offense would be a major increase and we aren’t stuck with him for that long. Maybe down the road we would move him to DH if we find a better 3B candidate in the offseason. Plus, with the exception of Victorino, Philly needs a step up in the OF.

2. Trade for Betemit or Aviles. Both have very cheap contracts and are FA at the end of this season. Which means if we like what we see we can make our own contracts, if not, we can drop them. Kansas City doesn’t need both of them. We could use either of them. The only problem is that KC doesn’t really need any OF help, so we would probably have to trade some other players.

3. Trade for Headley. Padres still have Cantu and they could use some more offense. Not sure if their outfield needs that much of an upgrade though.

Any other ideas for trades to help our infield?

by Mike Siegel on May 19, 2011 4:31 PM PDT reply actions  

The first and the third isn't realistic. The second I want absolutly nothing to do with.

Todd Frazier is your answer at 3b as I have said for a couple of years now.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Frazier

  Good power bat but not sure on defense. 25 homer guy that can hit reminds me of another Rosales which is not a bad thing.

by Arcman on May 19, 2011 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rosales doesn't even have 25 homers in his CAREER

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on May 19, 2011 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

This.

Rosales is a flash in the pan.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is probably referring to Rosales in the sense that he was a guy who was shunted to the back by the Reds

and when given the chance, became a solid player.

Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.

by Zonis on May 20, 2011 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Define solid player.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 20, 2011 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know

his BABIP is the same as in the minors, his LD rate doubled, the HR/FB rate doubled.

I am unsure about his defense.

its not impossible, but I would rather have Weeks or Cardenas than Rosales.

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 20, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Betemit or Aviles.

Polonco seems like he would be expensive to trade for. It would be buying high imo. I like him as a player, but I think the costs might outweigh the benefits. I’m pretty sure hes not a butcher defensively either.

Headley is young and I’m pretty sure he’s a player SD wants to rebuild with.

KC really needs bullpen help and I think we could be able to flip a reliever for Aviles or Betemit.

by sums95 on May 19, 2011 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't like betimit for anything

for free, sure, but not now

Put a bird on it

by Future Ed on May 19, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

yup

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

i think Dayton Moore is still pretty dumb.

He’d prob take Blevins for Betemit, which I’d do in a heartbeat. I have this feeling Betemit is going to have about 3-4 really good years in a row starting with last year. He looks a lock for an 800 OPS.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude has an 807 OPS with a 389 BABIP

yeah that totally screams lock for 800 ops to me!

Oh wait no no it doesn’t

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 20, 2011 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

what's the argument for frazier?

He’s in the Red’s minors, how can the A’s get him.

by falconsfury on May 19, 2011 6:11 PM PDT reply actions  

Let me help you out.

If youre looking for young players, you look at contending teams.
If youre looking for old players, you look at non contending teams.
Look for players who aren’t expensive or who are too expensive.
Look for what the contending team needs.
Look at areas for what the A’s have surpluses.

Then try to find a match. Read my old trade pieces to see how its done. Youve got some of the foundations of the thoughts above, and when you combine that with some baseball knowledge it will be pretty good.

Frazier team controlled can play 3b 2b LF and RF. Has some power but isn’t terrible in the K:BB realm. Can provide average fielding at 3b.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on May 19, 2011 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your arrogance knows no bounds
Read my old trade pieces to see how its done.

Puh-leeze. You don’t know shit about baseball. Just get your own site already and leave us alone.

by PL78 on May 19, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, that's totally unwarranted.

Credit where credit’s due: DFA was far better in that post you replied to.

by danmerqury on May 19, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah PL, I gotta pipe up here

while I agree that DFA may not be your cup of tea, he is very knowledgeable about baseball and has written some very informative pieces. Come on man, let it rest.

I got nothin'

by OptimistPrime on May 20, 2011 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

It was a touch arrogant, true,

but in fact looking at DFA’s old trade pieces really is good advice for anyone who wants to research and write posts like these.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 2:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are you suggesting that you know shit about baseball by comparison?

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on May 20, 2011 4:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I'd take DFA's baseball knowledge over PL78's any day

I could do without either of their presentation styles, though.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on May 20, 2011 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

I couldn't agree more.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on May 20, 2011 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

and there you have it, folks.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 20, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

This isn't about me.

Its about a singular poster turning the entire site’s attention on him and not the Oakland Athletics.

by PL78 on May 20, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was a bit drunk when I posted this haha

but I stand by the first statement, the second was just something that needed to be said to try and bring his absurd ego to earth. He acts like he is Bill James or something, someone needed to just go back the other way and say he doesnt know shit. He knows some things, as much as an under 25 year old member of a debate team can know, but he’s hardly Dave Cameron or anything. Simply writing 10,000 words doesn’t automatically deserve any respect, nothing he writes would ever make a physical baseball publication. If he gets paid for writing like he thinks he should be, then fine whatever. But Josh Donaldson still sucks and writing about the Angels financials without noting they are run by an idiot who takes on albatross contracts are just massive mis-steps. He’s alright as a poster, but he’s probably the worst, most arrogant commenter on AN.

by PL78 on May 20, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

How many massive mis-steps have you had?

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on May 20, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

"nothing he writes would ever make a physical baseball publication"

I think you overestimate the intelligence of what gets published these days. Yes, DFA is not as knowledgeable as the top baseball guys out there; no one is claiming that he is. But there’s a lot of pretty stupid baseball writers out there, too, who manage to see their words in print nevertheless.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I gotta sneeze... ah... ah... ah... ahhhhh

GERSHMAN!

(can I get a ‘Gezundheit’ up in here?)

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on May 21, 2011 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Life!

Give…My…Creation…Liiiiiife!!!

"I don't throw the first punch. I throw the second four." -Billy Martin

by CmdrKhraanik on May 20, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Godfrey and Banwart

I’m curious what AN’s prospect mavens think of these two now. When we were doing the prospect poll, the general view seemed to be that they are AAAA filler who have no real future in the big leagues. But now in this thread several people have observed that they are doing well in Sacramento so far this year. Is this enough to make us update our opinions and have hope for them again, or is it just the usual syndrome where a AAAA arm can fill in as a back-end starter for a while but not really stick.

What sort of comparison do you see here? Mortensen / Halsey / Komine? Saarloos / DiNardo? Gallagher?

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on May 20, 2011 2:52 PM PDT reply actions  

I haven't had internet access all week, thanks in large part to some rather baffling incompetence by the repairmen

so I missed this whole brouhaha, which is almost certainly for the best, at least as regards my own blood pressure.

I enter this largely-spent thread only to make a single observation. You, speaking generally here, may or may not happen to believe that DFA can catch more flies with honey, metaphorically speaking. Your opinion on that subject is largely a matter of personal taste. DFA has, however, repeatedly expressed his own opinion on the best manner in which to react to poor efforts by new posters. That opinion is firmly established and unlikely to change. You may not like it, but it appears to be within the current rules of the site, so if you have a problem with that, take it up with management (preferably where it does not clog legitimate threads with meta-bullshit).

Given that said opinion is firmly established, the claim that comments, made in response to that particular opinion being expressed, are in some way intended to “help” him— well, I’m not going to mince words. That claim is a lie. No non-idiot could possibly believe it at this point. What’s more, the fact that it has been repeatedly expressed by certain “usual suspects,” invariably in connection with various comments which are patronizing at best and naked contempt at worst, makes it quite obvious that it is not only a lie, it is in many instances a deliberate and cynical lie used to mask what would otherwise be garden-variety personal attacks behind a fairly thin cloak of site decorum.

As someone who intensely dislikes lying, I can tell you that doing that sort of thing is basically the equivalent of buying an express ticket to my personal shit list, which may or may not be of interest to anyone. If it is of no interest to you, then feel free to ignore this (but don’t be surprised if I subsequently act as though you are unworthy of trust).

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on May 22, 2011 11:45 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

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