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Around SBN: So Let's Talk About Hulk Too, I Suppose

How Bad Are First Pitch Strikes?

The A's new offense didn't exactly start out as hot as some had hoped, and afterwards, people were naturally looking for things and people to blame. But one comment in a thread last week caught my eye.

I have it stuck in my head (especially after last night) that the weakness in the offense isn’t the talent or the ballpark, but more so a club sticking to a decade old philosophy. The early 2000’s success was built on a approach of patience at the plate. Take pitches, work counts, chase starters by the 5th or 6th.

It seems in recent years the league has figured this out, and now simply pours strikes over early in the count to then put A’s hitters at a regular disadvantage.

Is AsFan72 right? I've seen this opinion quite a bit over the years. Are the A's too patient, to the point where pitchers with good control can pour strikes in and blow them away?

Well, the easy answer is that the 2010 A's were 10th out of 30 teams in most first pitch strikes, so, no, they're not unique in this sort of thing. But what if we go deeper? How bad is a first pitch strike? What about contact? Do good teams make more contact or less? Swing percentage?

Disciplinecorrelational500

Explanations and more after the jump.

Star-divide

The numbers and the heights of the bars correspond to how well each factor correlates with 2010 wOBA, or in other words, how well each factor matches up with offensive production. A correlation of one means perfect positive correlation, where an increase in one factor would increase the other by exactly the same amount. A correlation of negative one would mean perfect negative correlation, where an increase in one factor would decrease the other by the same amount. And a correlation of 0 signifies no correlation, where an increase in one factor leaves the other unchanged.

In order, the bars mean:

  • O-Swing%: This is the percentage of pitches outside the strike zone that a batter swings at. As you'd expect, this negatively correlates fairly heavily with offensive production. A team that swings at a lot of unhittable slop generally won't perform very well.
  • Z-Swing%: This is the opposite of O-Swing, in that it measures the percentage of pitches inside the strike zone that a batter swings at. It's slightly positively correlated with offensive production, although not as much as I would have guessed.
  • Swing%: This is fairly obvious—it's the total amount of pitches swung at, both inside and outside the zone. Swing% is negatively correlated with production, or in other words, there's a general trend that says that better offenses swing less. A note of caution: This does not imply causation. There's no way of knowing if better offenses are better because they swing less, or that since they're better, they get fewer good pitches to hit.
  • O-Contact%: This is the percentage of swings on pitches outside of the zone that result in contact. Note that it doesn't measure the quality of contact, just that contact was made, including fouls. It's positively correlated with production.
  • Z-Contact%: Much as you'd expect, this is the percentage of swings on pitches inside the zone that result in contact. Slightly positively correlated. The thing that surprises me here is that O-Contact is more strongly correlated than Z-Contact. This suggests that the ability to make contact outside of the zone is more important than inside. I'm guessing that this puzzling result is because most players are fairly similar at making contact on swings inside the zone, and the the talent distribution on outside contact is broader. The numbers back me up on this, as the standard deviation on O-Contact is twice that of Z-Contact.
  • Contact%: The total amount of swings that result in contact. Heavily correlated with offensive success, meaning that the better teams make more contact when they decide to swing. Fairly intuitive.
  • Zone%: The amount of pitches a batter gets that are inside the zone. Slightly negatively correlated, which makes sense. You don't throw down the middle to Albert Pujols, but you might do it to Jason Kendall.
  • F-Strike%: This result surprised me the most. The biggest correlation in this entire set belongs to F-Strike%, which is the percentage of plate appearances that result in a first pitch strike. It's hugely negatively correlated with offensive performance, meaning that the good players don't let pitchers give them first pitch strikes very often.
  • SwStr%: Another negative correlation here, this time for SwStr%, which is the percentage of swings that result in misses. Good batters tend not to swing and miss.

So is AsFan72 on to something? Is he correct?

He's right in that first pitch strikes are very bad for batters, and that the good ones don't let it happen often. But does that mean the A's should target batters who swing more often? No. The correlation between F-Strike% and Swing%? 0.676. That's a massive positive correlation, which says that batters who swing more rack up first pitch strikes far more than ones who swing less. Case in point? The team leader in least first pitch strikes last year? The ultra-patient Jack Cust. If you want to build a team that rarely starts off an at bat 0-1, you need to find more patience, not less.

Comment 58 comments  |  20 recs  | 

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KOUZMANAUTS

Kouz led the team in O-Swing% in 2010, right? I tend to think that Kouz makes up his mind to swing (or, not to swing) at the 1st pitch while he’s watching a pitcher in the On-Deck Circle. I really think that is his “gameplan”. He says he’s working on being more patient this season. Has anyone noticed any changes?

by Colorado Fan on Apr 5, 2011 7:10 AM PDT reply actions  

It almost seems like his strategy this year is to swing at the second pitch for sure

Instead of swinging at the first one for sure. I’ll have to pay closer attention the next few days.

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by cuppingmaster on Apr 5, 2011 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

If that were Kouz's process, he must be amazing at guessing where the first pitch is going

Kouz’s first pitch swings last year:

And his first pitch takes from last year:

Other than chasing some low pitches, he pretty much limited his swings to pitches inside or on the edge of the strike zone.

(all data from Texas Leaguers)

by Danny on Apr 5, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Weren't about 60% of all first pitches strikes last year, though?

And the Pitch Takes chart looks like a nearly random distribution to me. With a sub-.300 OBP and a near-random Take plot – I think the jury is still out on Kouz’s eye. Look at how many first pitches he took dead center. All this says to me is that if he can recognize that the pitch is close on the first pitch, he takes a hack – it’s just that he doesn’t recognize that the pitch is close all that often.

I think there’s a lot of guesswork by Kouz.

by sleepingcobra on Apr 5, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pitch location is only part of the problem though

Look at how many first pitch sliders he hacks at. A change can be tricky, but he’s either not picking up the spin on the ball or he just has a terrible approach. That first chart looks like what you’d expect from a one strike count.

by Sacred#24 on Apr 5, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't say Kouz has a good approach

I’m just saying that he’s obviously not deciding before the AB whether or not to swing at the first pitch. The pitches he takes are not at all random; he’s far more likely to take a pitch outside of the strike zone than he is to swing at it.

by Danny on Apr 5, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not disagreeing with you at all

I think he’s more interested in location and you’re right, he is attempting to swing at strikes when he should be looking for a pitch to drive.

by Sacred#24 on Apr 5, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is interesting.

I was in the camp that thought he looked for a pitch and decided to swing before it left the pitchers hand. I think these charts are saying he tries to control a certain part of the strikezone and makes adjustments to the pitch on the fly. So he’s a zone guy. Wow, I knew he was a gambler, I just thought he was a dfferent type.

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by padmadfan on Apr 6, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome job!!!

Let’s hope this clarifies AN on the A’s hitting approach/ strategy!

Every man for himself...

by MMunoz33 on Apr 5, 2011 7:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Good job, dan.

Save it for the fast money round, Paddy.

by Leopold Bloom on Apr 5, 2011 7:39 AM PDT reply actions  

Wow! This is superb!

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by WaddellCanseco on Apr 5, 2011 7:59 AM PDT reply actions  

This in the Top 3 of things you've done here, Dan

Really great.

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by cuppingmaster on Apr 5, 2011 8:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Wholeheartedly agree.

Terrific work, Dan.

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by harensheir15 on Apr 5, 2011 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

From minute details of hitting in a specific at-bat to the overarching philosophy the A's use, there is a lot to consider here.

The most interesting thing, I thought, was the illustration of baseball’s fundamental battle. Batter v. Pitcher. Head to head. Especially here.

He’s right in that first pitch strikes are very bad for batters, and that the good ones don’t let it happen often.

That’s a strange observation at first glance. How can they not let it happen? Other than recognizing a first pitch outside the zone and not swinging at it, there isn’t a whole lot the hitter can do. But there are other factors that will affect the pitcher like fatigue, how early/late in the game it is, is it a close game or not, how “on his game” does the pitcher feel, are there men on base or not, the batter’s scouting report, the hitter’s past performance against the pitcher etc. And, I think, “good hitters” (Frank Thomas would be a terrific example) are those that are good at understanding these variables, adjust their expectations and look for a specific pitch.

But, that’s only a start. (And here, I think, is the root of that poster’s query.) All of this skill is for naught if the hitter can’t drive a pitch once he gets what he’s looking for. In my opinion, this is where the A’s have suffered for the last few years. You know way better than me, of course, the lack of high OPS and wOBA players. If I had to guess, the three players with highest OPS in recent years would be Thomas, Cust and Bradley (for the period that the world wasn’t crashing down). I don’t know that it’s the philosophy that’s faulty. We just haven’t had healthy, productive players who are essential to its success. This is also apparent in success of both Sox and the Yankees (though getting to dictate your own strike zone may have something to do with it, too).

I think this also explains your surprise at the relatively low positive correlation with Z-Swing % (contact with pitches in the strike zone doesn’t necessarily translate to success) and the discrepancy in the Z-Contact% v. O-contact% (because the batter decides whether he can drive a pitch or not regardless of whether it’s in the strike zone or not). This confirms what I have thought about for a while now about hitting in general. It feels like the good hitters know their abilities and play to that strength. Of course, it helps to be able to hit a ball far. But, the decision to figure out which pitch to hit so that it will travel the farthest is different for every player or, at least, types of players (for example, Lefty sluggers liking the lower pitches on the inside half). This, then, begs the question “Does the strike zone feel arbitrary to them?” and, more importantly, “Does it become secondary to them in relation to whether they think the pitch is hittable or not?”

Clearly, for Jack Cust, it is secondary. He just doesn’t touch pitches unless he thinks he can drive them. For him, it’s a higher priority than whether the pitch is a strike or not; thus the high number of called strike 3s. This brings me to your excellent comparison.

The team leader in least first pitch strikes last year? The ultra-patient Jack
Cust.

Along with,
A note of caution: This does not imply causation. There’s no way of knowing if better offenses are better because they swing less, or that since they’re better, they get fewer good pitches to hit.

I was positively giddy. And not just at the mention of “Correlation doesn’t imply Causation.” Boy, that is a loaded observation though, isn’t it? Just ponder that for a second. The fact the you are a selective (good) hitter serves to make you a more selective (better) hitter (by virtue of getting fewer first pitch strikes). Is that incredible or what? This is the sort of thing that Cust boo-ers just can’t seem to appreciate.

I also agree with dwishinsky below about wanting to see the charts broken down for high wOBA hitters vs. low wOBA hitters. Even though I think it’s a great illustrator for 2010 A’s, the Cust example suffers a small sample size. What would be even better is a comparison of Playoff teams against non-Playoff teams. Since you don’t have to be really good to make the playoffs, we might see some noise but it might be insightful nonetheless. Think what crazy things we’d see if we only looked at the playoffs.

Anyhow, thanks for a riveting post. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

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by harensheir15 on Apr 5, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Really good stuff

It doesn’t seem surprising first pitch strikes are highly correlated with bad hitting performances. Last year, hitters had a .615 OPS after going down 0-1 and an .824 OPS after going ahead 1-0. It’s an objectively bad outcome that makes it tougher to succeed for the rest of the AB.

I would guess that some of that is due, as you mention in the Zone% comment, to better hitters seeing fewer pitches in the zone overall. This effect would be more pronounced on first pitches, as batters take these pitches at a far higher rate than in other counts. Last year, batters only swung at 28% of first-pitches, compared to 46% of all pitches.

I was looking at Pujols’ charts for first pitches and found something interesting. Pitchers have thrown him a first-pitch curveball 68 times over the past year, and he hasn’t swung at a single one of them. Of those 68 curves, 41 have been called strikes. By comparison, Pujols swung at 12% of all first pitches last year. He swung at 25% of first pitches his first 4 seasons, but that number has steadily dropped since.

Since nothing seems to work too well against Pujols, throwing a first pitch curveball might be the most effective way to get Pujols out until he starts catching on. Even the mighty Pujols drops to a mere mortal .933 OPS after falling behind 0-1.

by Danny on Apr 5, 2011 8:15 AM PDT reply actions  

Pujols has the perfect approach

Go up looking for a pitch to sit on and let anything else go until you get a strike. He clearly sits first pitch fastball and I’d be willing to bet (though I’m too lazy to look into it right now) that he maintains this approach on all non-strike counts. Taking a fastball down the middle is bad, but swinging at a first pitch curve (assuming you’re not looking for it) is just inexcusable.

by Sacred#24 on Apr 5, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

The great ones can have that approach.

Manny Ramirez used to do that too. They can afford to do that because they can hit whatever they want to. So it just makes sense for them to simplify the game and sit on a pitch.

As for Pujols, he knows you’re not foolhardy or brave enough to keep throwing him hanging curveballs, so he just eliminates that pitch from consideration.

"Never have a motto, that's what I always say" - Me
http://marcel-oehler.marcellosendos.ch/comics/ch/1986/05/19860506.gif
"I Hate SF" - The Chosen One.

by padmadfan on Apr 6, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome post.

I too have felt that the A’s automatically let strikes go by just for the sake of patience.

What might add to this is to take 5 of the top hitters and 5 of the bottom hitters and compare those stats who have included.

by Brett Narloch on Apr 5, 2011 8:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks

Came back just in time to dish out yet another rec for Dan. Life is so cruel sometimes.

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by elcroata on Apr 5, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Five

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by WaddellCanseco on Apr 5, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nice comparison

In your league numbers do you use AL only? I wonder if NL pitchers take pitches more often than position players, and may skew the numbers a little, but probably a 5% effect tops

by asfansince1989 on Apr 5, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's for both

Pitchers actually swing at more first pitches than even A’s do. They look at 68.5% and swing (or bunt) at 31.5%

by elcroata on Apr 5, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is there a way to remove pitchers from those % since they likely bring a less normalized plate appearance

And provide a better idea of how the A’s compare to other “real” hitters?

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by DMOAS on Apr 5, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is, but it doesn't make any difference

Pitchers’ PAs are 7,000 out of 180,000+, so the league averages sans pitchers change about 0.2 percentage points

by elcroata on Apr 5, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

One downside

The league is safe on 18% of the 1st pitch swings (6878/38388), and the A’s are only safe about 16% of the swings (245/1547). At roughly 10 1st pitch swing per game by the A’s (1547 in 162 games), this amounts to an extra 1.1-1.2 quick outs per game, and saving opposing pitcher 3-4 pitches per game.

Is this a result of A’s hitter being crappier? or the result of A’s hitters being less selective and hitting bad pitches? Or are these two basically the same thing?

by asfansince1989 on Apr 5, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

The reason recent A’s offenses have had poor run scoring is not that they’re full of super-patient guys who don’t swing at meatballs down the middle. It’s that they’re full of hitters who are just objectively shitty hitters.

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by PaulThomas on Apr 5, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

awesome post

super educational. if only my high school baseball coach knew statistics.

by nateinberkeley on Apr 5, 2011 9:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Dan, you're the man

I love your work, thought-provoking, beautifully illustrated and thorough. But with respect to this, I’ve long been a fan of letting a pitch or two go, and “working counts”. The problem I had with our series with Seattle is how we let both Hernandez and Vargas throw single-digit pitch count innings time and time again. I wonder how this split looks when you changed it to hitters with above average or below average wOBAs. I am correct that this is an aggregate of everyone right?

I suspect that good hitters may take a pitch (even a strike) and gather information from it, whether it be does he tip pitches, what his release point looks like etc, things that can be applied to future at bats (so much more so earlier in the game). So I think there’d be a big difference between first pitch strikes from guys like Daric Barton or Wade Boggs than there would from Kevin Kouzmanoff. Furthermore, I wonder if there is a difference in the time of the game. Taking pitches in earlier innings to see more of a pitcher, and being more aggressive late in the game when getting runs might be necessary or a lead already secure. Just food for thought.

While, the graph seems to speaking volumes against my thoughts, I wonder if the data changes as game situations and quality of hitter changes. Whatre your thoughts on that?

by dwishinsky on Apr 5, 2011 9:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Perhaps Kouz was right to swing at the first one after all

"Hey anyone can join in...as long as they talk about me." - Mr. Bed
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by cuppingmaster on Apr 5, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

No not at all.

But that first pitch strike we don’t know much about. Look at elcroata’s chart. There’s a big diff between a called strike and swung at strike. I bet you the swung at strikes tend to be the worse hitters (see: Kouzmanoff) whereas the better hitters are taking strikes. It’d be nice to see that split and see (if I suspect) the very different results that come after that. Right now we’re blinded to those results, we just see negative correlation with going down 0-1, but those aren’t all created equally.

by dwishinsky on Apr 5, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

So does that mean Kouz is doing better this year

at least all the 1st pitch he swung at would have been strikes or close to the zone. The pitches he took are more randomly distributed, but it’s OK if he takes a strike once a while if it’s not the pitch he’s looking for and could pick up.

by asfansince1989 on Apr 5, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well I think theres more at play than just the individual at bat

So while I am happy Kouz is taking pitches and not necessarily swinging right off the bat, if it is a ball he can drive in the middle of the plate, then I assume he should hit it. But there is a larger thing at play, working pitchers. If everyone swings very early the pitchers can get out of innings with fewer ptichers thrown and go deeper into games. The first two games illustrated this perfectly on both sides of the field. The M’s took tons of pitches and got Cahill out very early, the A’s allowed both Hernandez and Vargas tons of easy innings and didn’t get into that soft bullpen that we capitalized off of on Sunday. So there’st he individual goal of getting a hit and the broader goal of working pitchers, I am not sure entirely how you best reconcile the two especially with respect to Kouzmanoff which is why I’d be interested in seeing a further breakdown.

by dwishinsky on Apr 5, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it's all a matter of percentages

Your best chance of getting a hit is when you get a pitch you’re looking for. If either the speed/type/location is not what you’re looking for, then you may want to let it go past. The further the pitch is from your ideal hittable pitch, the more often you should lay off. Where is the cut-off? I think that is the difference between good hitter vs. bad hitter.

I’m not saying good hitter will want to swing at ore pitches, just saying they have the option to swing if they want to, but on the other hand they also have the option to let more 1st pitch pass, since even if they get strike 1, they still have a better chance to hit the following pitches than a bad hitter. For a bad hitter, they don’t have as much margin, if they let a meatball 1st pitch go by, they may not get another hittable pitch (to their ability).

In the end I don’t think it’s the swing % on 1st pitch that matters, but pitch selection matters more. Bad hitters has to try harder to only swing at pitches they can hit since they have less margin. If simply swing less or more on 1st pitch can make one a better or worse hitter, I think there would be data out there that support this.

by asfansince1989 on Apr 5, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're describing a cause/effect I am not saying happens

I am not saying that by not swinging at a first pitch you can become better necessarily as a hitter. I agree whole heartedly that you should hit the pitches that you can do the most with. What I am sayign though is for these weak hitters, there is a broader benefit to their taking numerous pitches that being that it causes additional wear on opposing pitchers. Also furthermore if a pitcher knows a guy is a weak hitter, I don’t see why they’d “give them their pitch” so to speak, first. These guys simply jump at the first pitch regardless of whether or not it is good as PaulThomas says in describing Kouz’ approach vis-a-vis Bartons’. If they just dont jump they help the team out as a whole by driving pitch counts up and then swinging at whatever the heck theyd have swung on first pitch out, deeper into a count. Potentially they could learn more about a pitcher and apply that knowledge later on, but I can’t say that is necessarily going to happen

by dwishinsky on Apr 6, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

The thing is, it's clear he's not looking for anything

If you want an example of “looking for something,” there was a post here a month or two ago that showed Barton’s swings and takes in various counts… and with fewer than two strikes, Barton only swings at half the strike zone. Literally— you can draw a diagonal line through the zone and he never swings at anything on one side of that line until he’s got two strikes.

Kouzmanoff’s is just random. He’s completely lost at the plate.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Apr 5, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

so i guess, the conclusion is that...

if you get a first pitch strike, it’s okay to swing but you better make contact?

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by stm72 on Apr 5, 2011 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

oh, also rec'd

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Apr 5, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it means to only swing at 1st pitch strikes that you know you can pick up and hit

Like Pujos letting curveball strikes go by. Even if it’s a strike, if you don’t feel comfortable hitting it, or not 100% you are picking up the pitch, then better not to swing at all. Otherwise you’re likely to have a swinging strike, or even if you contact, you may not make good contact.

by asfansince1989 on Apr 5, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

The important thing for any hitter

Is to focus, not be thinking up there (think before your at bat, forming the basis of “your approach,” so you can then confidently, in a focused manner, not think too much up at the plate.) Whatever approach a player has (patient, aggressive, some of each depending,) will benefit from him having the freedom and focus to do what he does without worrying if the front office and manager have him under a microscope.

I think many A’s players since Moneyball have had a harmful self consciousness at the plate due to trying to take ABs “the A’s way.” And then, as that became widely known, perhaps they’ve then overcompensated the other way, telling themselves “that way has hurt me, i’m going to do my thing,” but they then do it too much.

The A’s shouldn’t try to force their players a certain approach too much, instead attain players who already, naturally have that approach they prefer, patient while looking for your pitch to drive, whatever count it comes on.

by supersugarCrisp on Apr 5, 2011 11:46 AM PDT reply actions  

This is really interesting.

Thanks!

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by pam5981 on Apr 5, 2011 11:48 AM PDT reply actions  

Are hitters just weren't that good

That is why a pitcher will throw a first pitch strike.

Good hitters don’t get first pitch strikes, because pitcher won’t throw them first pitch stikes.

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by Bigtoe on Apr 5, 2011 12:59 PM PDT reply actions  

Excellent information, dan and elcroata.

The one question I havein comparing different hitters,(such as Barton or Cust, and Kouz), is the pitcher themselves. How does the fact that the majority of pitchers are righthanded affect the first pitch strike? Since the RH curve breaks into Lefthanded batters, and away from RH batters, does this affect the outcome? Is Kouz better against lefties?

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by Tutu-late on Apr 5, 2011 1:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Today's Lineup

Since we have no game thread yet, I ask here. The “Lineup” today is supposed to be as follows, it seems, according to the game preview:

1. Crisp
2. Barton
3. Jackson
4. Willingham
5. Ellis
6. DeJesus
7. Suzuki
8. Kouzmanoff
9. LaRoche

So my question is, is this the order they did batting practice in, or has Geren lost his mind?

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by Zonis on Apr 5, 2011 1:51 PM PDT reply actions  

Lefty pitcher

Still. Jackson 3rd?

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by Kelly on Apr 5, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

His splits aren't even that great

Maybe it was because of his blazing hot spring…

by Sacred#24 on Apr 5, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

public enemy number 1 to the A's

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by Athletic on Apr 5, 2011 2:29 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

bobo

why would you put a bench player in the 3 hole…..

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by oakwin2004 on Apr 5, 2011 2:35 PM PDT reply actions  

And he's not even Bob Kielty

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by WaddellCanseco on Apr 5, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I prompted a thread, I prompted a thread!!!!

I don’t understand 1/2 of it, but yay for me, I prompted a thread!

by AsFan72 on Apr 6, 2011 2:13 PM PDT reply actions  

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