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Around SBN: The MMA Hour Is Back

I'm Reminded Of 2005

The A's are off to a slow start that is not only disappointing to see in the standings, but is frankly also painful to watch. I am not reminded of 2001, when the team started 8-18 and was shaken up in late May. That team was extremely talented, had Giambi, Tejada, and Chavez in the middle of its lineup, and was coming off a division winning season.

Remember 2005, though? That team, like these A's, could not hit early in the season despite having a lineup that, on paper, looked to be "ok" -- not great, mind you, but not terrible. It also had young pitchers like Joe Blanton and Danny Haren who, after taking their rookie lumps, combined inexperience with promise. It was a young but talented rotation backed by what looked to be a kind of middling offense.

And the A's couldn't buy a run. I remember where things bottomed out, in late May: There were two outs in the 9th inning and the A's were on the verge of losing yet another low-scoring one-run game, burying them yet deeper in the AL West. And then Jason Kendall singled to tie it. And then the A's won it. And then they pretty much stopped losing for two months, playing .800 ball, dominating interleague play rather dramatically, and turning a 17-32 start into a tight division race.

That season peaked with the "sulk off" and a brief share of first place, before the Angels pulled a couple games ahead again and the season went down to the wire -- and ultimately the A's had to settle for "runner up" in the Mr. AL West Pageant. But at least it was an exciting season -- or should I say an exciting 2/3 of a season, because April and May were decidedly not exciting.

No two seasons are alike, and I highly doubt the A's will play .800 ball for any two month stretch of 2011. But can you remember what it felt like watching every hitter underperform, to watch every excellent starting pitching effort get wasted, to watch tight game after tight game sans the key hit needed to get the team over the hump? It's all too familiar. I didn't enjoy it then, and I don't enjoy it now.

However, the next seven games -- three at the Angels followed by four at home against Texas -- are going to tell us a lot. If the A's were to lose two of three to the Angels and then three of four to the Rangers, they would emerge solidly under .500 and 5-6 games back of both teams. That's a real hole to climb out of. In contrast, if the A's were to win two of three from the Angels and then take three of four from Texas, they would emerge over .500 and just 1-2 games back of the teams they are chasing. This isn't just a good time to finally get hot -- it's an essential time.

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4-3

winning the Angels series and splitting Texas to end up right about where they started. This team seems determined the hover around .500 :P

by Rickeyfan on Apr 24, 2011 7:06 PM PDT reply actions  

If they go 4-3 (which I think is very realistic),

I hope it’s losing 2 of 3 to the Angels and winning 3 of 4 against Texas. My hope is that the A’s can take 2 of 3 in LAA and then 2 of 3 against Texas — and then have a bonus game on Monday that isn’t essential but is gravy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fine by me, if we get hot in the second half.

"Caring about stuff binds us to the other people that care about stuff, and that creates the communities that makes life worth living."

by thewhizkid on Apr 24, 2011 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't the first Chez Nico

Take place during that miserable May?

by OaklandSi on Apr 24, 2011 7:19 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Not sure. I was drunk that entire month.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

And, do you know who's fault that was?

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on Apr 24, 2011 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm...Was it Blanton? Kendall? Crosby?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

pam?

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on Apr 24, 2011 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

agreed

I was on the pre-tarp upper deck. it was magical. I went to the entire series and remember how the three games seemed to be a microcosm of the entire season up to that point. Even though they didn’t win that year, that was probably one of my favorite seasons.

"i hate monkeys"

by BruceBochteBiyatches on Apr 24, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

haha

I was watching on tv from socal. The only time I’ve ever, ever, ever in my life been grateful that I had Rex Hudler on my television. Dude went completely silent before saying it was ALMOST unacceptable! It was HILARIOUS.

by drmmerchk on Apr 25, 2011 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ummmmmm.....

I’m hoping for 2 or 3 RUNS against the Angels. The A’s face both Weaver and Haren in that series. I’m hoping for 3-4 but am preparing myself for 2-5 for the week.

by Brett Narloch on Apr 24, 2011 7:49 PM PDT reply actions  

If the A's are to make any real noise in the AL West,

they’ll need to beat guys like Weaver and Haren sometimes. They may not beat them 7-5, but they can certainly, in theory, beat them 3-2.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

So we'll sweep! Awesome!

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 24, 2011 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, Ross-Haren is an auto-win,

in the same way Mike Rouse was obviously going to go 3 for 3 in NY. Gio’s curve will drive the Angels loco. Sadly, Chatworth will pitch a one-hit shutout before getting lit up his next start.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, we beat Verlander!

But got owned by Phil Coke and Porcello :(

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Apr 24, 2011 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Given how much Porcello sounds like a mushroom,

it’s almost fair to say we were overcome by coke and ’shrooms in that series.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

so you're saying we're going to have a problem with this

Dan Heroin I keep hearing so much about?

"If we start getting into that sh*t, we might as well get out the plastic sheeting and have an orgy." --Gaijin Suketto

by emperor nobody on Apr 24, 2011 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Absolute QOTM (tag-team category) of April

Where the hell is PoppyBot5000 when you need her?

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Prediction:

We smash Haren, Chatworth no-hits us.

by PL78 on Apr 25, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

and loses...

Coco walk, steals second, takes third on grounder, scores on sac fly.

A’s win 1-0.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

The 2005 team had a lot more talent -- it finished with 93 Pythagorean wins and had

only two black holes in the lineup — Kendall and Hatteberg. Chavez, Ellis and Crosby! were all 4+ rWAR players. The current lineup could have 4 black holes at 2B, SS, 3B and C. The pitching could match or exceed the 2005 staff’s 118 ERA+ but the hitting is going to have trouble getting to their 98 wRC+

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 24, 2011 8:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Exactly

I believe ‘05 teams run differential was better than ’06? Don’t forget Swisher – he had a respectable rookie season while banging out 20 hrs, and more to the point, was a legitimate reason for optimism coming into the season, as he was one of the game’s top prospects. And speaking of Crosby, that partial season he put in in ’05 was the reason that Peter Gammons went all bonkers the following pre-season and tabbed him as the next MVP.

I wanna say this year’s pitching staff is a bit better, but offensively, this team has no chance to come close to the ‘05 team. This year’s offense simply has no reason to be optimistic as the ‘05 team did. If the rotation maintains the sub-2.50 aggregate ERA throughout the season, maybe we’ll win the division. In which case this team should be compared to the ’89 Dodgers.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

You also have to consider, though,

that the 2005 rotation was totally unproven and raw — including Haren, who had his growing pains that year, and Blanton, who was sucktastic for the first two months.

But I’m not suggesting that this team is better, or worse, or the same as, the 2005 club. That’s not part of my point. In this post, I’m just remembering how inexplicably poorly the entire team hit for two months and then how suddenly the worm turned.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh it'll definitely improve.

But not to “good” — just to “ok”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't get past the idea that five guys are decent and four guys are sucky though.

That doesn’t add up to OK for me.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 24, 2011 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's worrisome is that we're wondering if this team is even as good as a team that didn't make the playoffs.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Apr 24, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

True, but then they lost the Pythagorean one-game playoff

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Apr 25, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Slegna! (shakes fist)

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 25, 2011 4:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess

we’ll just have to hope that our pitching comes through in a big way. Hypothetically, I do believe that Cahill, Anderson, and Gio just might have been the top three starters if they were on the ’05 team.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not "Haren '05" though. He was just getting his feet wet as a SP.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 25, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haren 2005 had a 117 ERA+. I'd be pleasantly surprised if Gio

matched or exceeded that.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 25, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ultimately he did; the first two months, though, he struggled a lot.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 25, 2011 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

ok

“ok” would be freakin’ awesome at this point

"i hate monkeys"

by BruceBochteBiyatches on Apr 24, 2011 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I understand

your point. I’m just saying, though, the ‘05 team had some legitimate reasons for optimism moving forward (Chavy’s annual early season swoon, Swisher’s top prospect status, Crosby’s imminent come back from the DL, etc.).

But you’re right about the rotation, and I remember Haren struggled tremendously to start the season with not much of a track record. Which is why I feel that this year’s rotation is better. I’m just not optimistic that the mirror image is symmetrical – i.e., this year’s offense is significantly worse with much less reason to be optimistic than ’05’s rotation.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

2005 - was that the year with two back to back 8 game losing streaks?

I remember on may sorely testing AN with an 8 game losing streak, one win, then another 8 gamer.

Closing was spotty, among other problems.

by MobiusKlein on Apr 24, 2011 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

lineup

Great point about 2001 A’s: they got off to a 2-10 start, but they also had Damon, Giambi, Tejada, Chavez and even Dye midseason. I can’t expect this lineup carrying this team much this year.

by DaleTafoya on Apr 24, 2011 8:09 PM PDT reply actions  

'01 team

I’m a firm believer that our ‘01 team was the best team of the decade. Compare their second-half number to any other team in that decade, the A’s have them beat. Even the record-setting Mariners of the same year never had the stretch quite like the A’s second half that year.

Johnny Damon’s been quoted multiple times in believing that that team really should’ve won the whole thing.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 8:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh

definitely the best team of the A’s teams, but I really believe it was the best of all of baseball last decade.

Wouldn’t we have legit reason to argue for that proposition had we won the World Series that year? Both going by how we all felt each time we checked the box score (i.e., very little doubt that the A’s had pummeled whoever the previous night’s opponent was) as well as the numbers that they put up?

I’ve actually checked the numbers before, and I’d do it again if I didn’t have two back-to-back final exams starting tomorrow. But if you’re curious, check them out – the A’s second half run differential is something to behold, and far superior to any team’s similar stretch all decade.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

which is why no one makes such statement. But I guess my feeling is that the team that finished the season was much closer to the actual team than the early season wobbler (and a true performance outlier – I mean the 8-18 start). Either way, 102 win-season isn’t exactly something to sneer at (can’t remember what the overall run differential was that year, but I think it was only slightly worse than that of the M’s).

As for the playoffs, I thought ppl on this blog generally believed that the playoffs were a crapshoot. Besides, it’s not like the team totally flamed out. It took some major chain of unlucky bounces and some wtf plays from the Yankees (you know what I’m talking about). And remember that in that infamous game 3, Mussina wiggled out of jams inning after inning when he could’ve been tagged with multiple runs, while Zito completely dominated the Yankees line-up, save for Posada’s line-drive that barely cleared the fence – another example of my argument that, from the standpoint of pure performance capacity, the ’01 team trumped them all.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I mean

it’s hard to argue against a record-setting team. But again, going by the feel-test, that team never felt like a clear cut favorite, and prove such feeling when it didn’t put up much of a fight against the Yankees in the ALCS (4-1, no?).

I also remember that during a Neyer chat while the A’s were up 2-0 and looked like they were going to march onto the ALCS, someone asked him which of the A’s and the Mariners should be favored, and Neyer saying something to the effect of “it’ll be a toss-up, but the A’s are more talented.” I hope I’m being annoying with all this feel-out memories, but the point is that that A’s team felt/looked the part, and put up the numbers.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Slide, Jeremy, slide….

by DaleTafoya on Apr 24, 2011 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Too painful

after all these years.

Btw, I totally meant to reply to your comment up there. My bad.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

The loss of Neftali and Hamilton is pretty huge but they keep winning despite.

I think we have a better chance against the slegnA.
The last two games have been promising, if we can manage to hit against Weaver and Haren, I think we can stay in this thing and have a hold on second place.
I’m pretty worried about Texas though, they just keep firing on all cylinders despite losses.

by brian.only on Apr 24, 2011 8:32 PM PDT reply actions  

It's frustrating -- but it's also true that

since we started 2-5 while the Rangers started 5-0, Oakland has played Texas even.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm just worried what happens when the rest of their pitching returns.

They struck some gold so far w/ Harrison/ Ogando.
Lets hope this fire the A’s have lit can last past a flicker.

by brian.only on Apr 24, 2011 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that Harrison has been amazing thus far but,

how many of these teams are seeing him start for the first time? Pitcher’s tend to have the advantage the first time or two a team sees them until the hitters, good ones at least, make adjustments and figure out the pitcher. It is then up to the pitcher to make adjustments based on the hitters adjustments, and his success will ultimately be dictated by this. I’m not sure if he’s made these adjustments already and, his performance is a result of this, or if he is benefiting from hitters being unaware of his overall repertoire.

by sbzito75 on Apr 24, 2011 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Given that Harrison has already made 32 starts and 35 relief appearances for Texas,

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that whatever is going on there, it’s not just that he’s fooling hitters who’ve never seen him before.

I’m thinking the .192 BABIP, 8.5% line drive rate, and 88% left-on-base rate have more to do with it.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Apr 25, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks, I really didn't know.

Also, I’m not the biggest stat head, but would those stats you listed suggest that we should expect some sort of regression this season similar to the regression predicted for Cahill before he became a strickout pitcher?

by sbzito75 on Apr 25, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...let's compare

Cahill 2010 — 5.4 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 56% GB, 3.99 xFIP

Harrison 2011 so far — 6.0 K/9, 2.8 BB/9, 53% GB, 3.89 xFIP

Works for me

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 25, 2011 4:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Basically, yes

Pitchers have very little control over BABIP, virtually none over line drive rate, and only limited control over left-on-base rate (which stems entirely from the fact that good pitchers will, simply by virtue of being more likely to get any given hitter out than a bad pitcher, be more likely to end innings with men on before they score).

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Apr 25, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

They could have a little "subtraction by addition"

if they let Hunter return to the rotation. That’s what I’m hoping. I think Holland’s good, but I also expect Ogando to start getting hit hard and I think Harrison pretty much sucks. They can score, though; they don’t need to pitch shutouts every night.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 24, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Harrison seems to have acquired a dominant sinker whereby he now gets 53% ground balls

He might be tolerable for them.

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 24, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm just worried what happens when the rest of their pitching returns.

They struck some gold so far w/ Harrison/ Ogando.
Lets hope this fire the A’s have lit can last past a flicker.

by brian.only on Apr 24, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, the moral of the story is

that we need to coax Frank Thomas out of retirement this offseason.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Apr 24, 2011 8:43 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

And put him at 3B

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 24, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm on a Home-Away Splits kick right now.

Last season the A’s were 34-47 away (and the opposite at home, of course). I think that it is not unrealistic to think that we can end up with a similar home record. After all, it’s not like we were world beaters. If we maintain .500 ball away, however we manage to do it, (say, 41-40), then we win 88 games. If that turns out not to be enough for the title, I’ll be sad but understand. If Texas can win 90 games again with all the bad luck turns they’ve already faced, more power to ’em.

The Angels? Bah. Can’t even beat the lowly BoSox in Anaheim, in four tries. Forget ’em.

LB: How many VORPs does it take to screw in a light bulb? Nico: We don't have a large enough sample to know! Lenscrafters: Trick question. Everyone knows that VORP is a light independent stat.

by paris7 on Apr 24, 2011 9:16 PM PDT reply actions  

We had more offensive talent in 2005 in Durazo, Chavy when he could still play, Swisher Byrnse for a while etc

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by Athletic on Apr 24, 2011 9:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Holy shit

Durazo. Had completely forgotten about him. But wasn’t he pretty much relegated to the bench in ‘05? I believe he did have a monster year the year before, ops’ing something north of 900.

by tas7b on Apr 24, 2011 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm expecting 3-4

The A’s are facing the Angels’ best two starters, and Texas in Arlington.

Anything more than that is gravy. And 3-4 keeps them about where they’re at now, unless all the losses are in Texas.

by bear88 on Apr 25, 2011 12:03 AM PDT reply actions  

If A's are planning to have a strong winning streak ever again

Next week would be the best possible moment. But realistically going 5-2 would be a dream and even 4-3 would be very solid. If you believe in day game mojo, four out of seven games will be played in the afternoon, including 3 out of 4 against Texas.

by Manstein on Apr 25, 2011 2:35 AM PDT reply actions  

May as well call Haren vs. Ross a loss already

I’ll be thrilled if the A’s can take two games from Anaheim, though one is probably more realistic.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Apr 25, 2011 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't go that far quite yet.

However, if Ross can’t locate his fastball when he holds a little something back, then he needs to get out of the rotation soon, and back in the bullpen where he can let it all air out.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree. It's gonna take way more than one bad start for him to be relegated to the bullpen.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Apr 25, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Especially since the alternative is Cramer

I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min

by WaddellCanseco on Apr 25, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he'd be a fine starter, as long as he never went more than 4, maybe 5 innings.

His motion is a jumbling mess, and my best guess is that what keeps it straight and together is maximum effort. His release points are way more consistent when he pitches relief than when he’s trying to pace himself as a starter.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is precisely why he should be in Sacramento learning how to pitch.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Apr 25, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

with a normal pitcher, I'd agree with you, but Ross would have to be taken back to square one.

If he were to be re-taught how to pitch, starting with a proper stride and leverage, they’d have to bust him all the way back down to Kane County.

If he can locate his fastball when he throws with maximum effort, then his value is as a reliever, and I’d rather have him in the A’s bullpen than trying to make a flawed delivery do something it wasn’t meant to do, back in Sacramento.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

We can find crap off the reliever scrap-heap to do that

Ross needs to start. If he has 8-ish starts (around what I anticipate he’ll make in Braden’s absence) and he can’t figure out, then it is absolutely worth it for him to be re-tooled with a more leggy delivery. He’s 24 now, and say he takes until 26 to figure it out with a new delivery; I’d rather have a 26 year-old starter who’s even average than Bobby Jenks 2.0 every day plus Sunday.

"Hey anyone can join in...as long as they talk about me." - Mr. Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Apr 25, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Braden's gonna be gone THAT long?

Oh, that really sucks.

I was hoping he’d miss maybe three starts tops.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

(shrug)

I thought 5 first, but I’m taking the over on that.

"Hey anyone can join in...as long as they talk about me." - Mr. Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Apr 25, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Plus, I'm really focused on this season.

Win now, cuz there aren’t any really amazing prospects in the minors, and our whole outfield is leaving after this season.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

They should have done that the second they drafted him.

But he’s young enough that he SHOULD be sent down and rebuilt.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Apr 25, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

If the A's weren't so damn short on quality right handed relief, I'd go with the long view too.

With Wuertz likely to take Cramer’s roster spot, I’d like to see Blevins sent down when Braden comes back up.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Looking very much ahead

If the front office is truly in a “win now” mentality, I fully expect a big trade near the deadline or before then. So, I’m not sure that this is the same team we will be seeing in 3 months. That alone gives me hope, along with the fact that we simply cannot be this bad offensively.

"Hey anyone can join in...as long as they talk about me." - Mr. Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Apr 25, 2011 6:50 AM PDT reply actions  

I certainly wouldn't have predicted

that through 22 games, the 2010 A’s would have outscored the 2011 A’s by 21 runs.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Apr 25, 2011 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

wow, 1 run / game!

That’s an amazing fall off.

What about the pitching – it seems to be better, but I’m too lame to find the stats.

by MobiusKlein on Apr 25, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

By giving up which players?

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Apr 25, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

likely some we don't want to get rid of

Bailey, Gio, Carter maybe? Who knows, just speculation.

Of course, if we blow, all bets are off.

"Hey anyone can join in...as long as they talk about me." - Mr. Bed
"So you're saying we should skin the Rangers and wear them as uniforms? I’m down." - Kyli

by cuppingmaster on Apr 25, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ellis: 4.4
Chavez: 4.3
Crosby: 3.5
Swisher: 2.1
Kendall: 2.0

I think we will have 5 position players have 16.3 WAR, maybe more. In 2006 we had 4 guys between 3.1 and 3.7, with Milton Bradley having 2.7 in half a season. You guys don’t think we will end up with 4 guys over 3? Barton, Willingham, Matsui & Crisp are shoo-ins for that imo.

by PL78 on Apr 25, 2011 9:32 AM PDT reply actions  

Willingham's career high is 3. Matsui's, too.

So, no. No I don’t. Hell, Matsui was only 2.5 WAR in 2008 when he had a .378 wOBA as a DH, so unless you think he’s going to have a wOBA approaching .388, he’s not going to be 3 WAR.

Barton and Crisp will be over 3 WAR, if healthy.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Apr 25, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

11-11 is a much different story from 17-32

Nico’s right, the A’s probably won’t play .800 ball after the 49th game of the 2011 season like they did in ’05, but I only see us getting better from here.

We have several starters hitting at or below .240: Willingham, Matsui, DeJesus, Kouzmanoff, Ellis, Barton, guys who are historically much more productive than that. So our offense will get better.

By contrast, I don’t see the pitching getting much worse. Yes, all of our starters are having phenomenal starts, but is that really a surprise? Gio, Cahill and Anderson were all poised to follow up on their 2010 breakout campaigns, and they’re doing so beautifully.

Haren will go through his usual second half slump, right at the time when the Angels will need to win more games than they lose. Texas’s pitching is already showing cracks, giving up 15 runs to the Angels in one game last week, and 14 this past weekend to the Royals.

Put another way, I’d rather have the A’s squad than the Angels or the Rangers the rest of the season.

These clothes are good enough to drink in, and so be these boots, too.

by Leap Year on Apr 25, 2011 11:16 AM PDT reply actions  

So, let me put you on record as saying

that starters with respective April ERAs of 1.56, 2.10, 2.30, 3.00, and 1.80, are NOT going to get much worse. Despite a cumulative ERA which is 0.8 runs better than the best mark ever produced by the 1990s Atlanta Braves, who had three Hall of Famers in their rotation.

I want some of whatever magical happy drug you’re using.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Apr 25, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna sit right in the middle of that.

They won’t be THIS good, but they might have a chance to put up a better mark than any of those Braves teams did,

and YES, please send me magical happy drugs ASAP, on general principles.

"OK and now everybody who said 'game over' at some point
GO KNEEL IN THE CORNER!" - elcroata

by Gaijin_Suketto on Apr 25, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Teacher says you have to share!

Life insurance s..cks. I'm now worth more dead than alive.

by Tutu-late on Apr 25, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

sharing is caring.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Apr 25, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

The 1990s Braves didn't have the best ERA ever

not by a long shot.

BTW, the AL record for starting pitching staffs during the DH era is held by none other than our own 1974 Oakland A’s, at 2.98.

by A's Believer on Apr 25, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can't just compare ERA from different time periods like that.

You’d have to adjust for league. An ERA of 2.95 in 1974 (ERA+ 113) is much less impressive than an ERA of 3.25 in 1998 (ERA+ 128).

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Apr 25, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Naturally

But we can’t just compare to the 1990s or early 2000’s either. What 1974 and 2011 have in common is the DH rule, low mound, and absence of “clear” and “cream”. 1998 was very different.

Here are the average ERAs for the AL in the years in question:
2011: 3.97
1998: 5.01
1974: 3.63

ERAs have been declining for several years and are on course to decline again this year. So 2011 is shaping up to be much closer to 1974 than to 1998. Admittedly, to beat the 1974 A’s team this year’s starting staff actually has to be 0.34 better than the 1974 staff with respect to the league average. But what the Braves did in the 1990s is irrelevant.

The facts suggest ERAs in the very low 3’s for our original starting staff if they remain healthy. For example the past three months (August, September, April) our starting staff ERA has been 2.77, 3.40, and 2.20. And the ERA of our four returning starters for all of 2010 and 2011 is below 3.10. McCarthy is a wild card but so far is performing better than even I expected. BABIP suggests they are somewhat unlucky despite the 2.20, LD% suggests average luck, and only LOB% suggests that they have been very lucky achieving their 2.20 ERA (2.07 for the five starters involved in my prediction). The extraordinary number of 2.07 itself is the strongest piece of evidence that there will be some regression towards the mean, but by how much and to what mean remains to be seen.

by A's Believer on Apr 25, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't bring out the snark boomstick that often anymore, but...
absence of "clear" and "cream".

Contractually obligated to point out that I think it’s far more likely that MLB has simply changed the composition of the baseball.

Here are the average ERAs for the AL

This doesn’t work. ERAs are always down in April because of the well-known correlation between ambient temperature and the distance that struck balls travel.

The facts suggest ERAs in the very low 3’s for our original starting staff if they remain healthy.

Pretty extraordinary claim. Let’s see what you’ve got to back it up.

For example the past three months (August, September, April) our starting staff ERA has been 2.77, 3.40, and 2.20.

Cherrypicked.

And the ERA of our four returning starters for all of 2010 and 2011 is below 3.10.

Still cherrypicked. Did nothing happen before the start of last season? Does one season plus a tiny bit more of data automatically set in stone a player’s true talent level? Etc.

BABIP suggests they are somewhat unlucky despite the 2.20, LD% suggests average luck, and only LOB% suggests that they have been very lucky achieving their 2.20 ERA (2.07 for the five starters involved in my prediction).

I have no idea on what planet a .279 rotation-wide BABIP can be considered “somewhat unlucky” (Jupiter, perhaps? It has a strong gravitational pull…), but it doesn’t work on Earth.

The extraordinary number of 2.07 itself is the strongest piece of evidence that there will be some regression towards the mean

The team starters have a collective xFIP of 3.27 (again, unadjusted for the fact that run scoring is generally low in April), which is definitely a great number. It’s also more than a run higher than the team average right now. I’d say that’s pretty damn strong evidence that the team is not this good.

That’s quite apart from the fact that maintaining that kind of xFIP over a full season would be an insanely dominant accomplishment, which would probably render this year’s A’s the best pitching staff in recent baseball history. It would beat last year’s top team mark by four tenths of a run, or roughly the difference between the best team in baseball and the 12th best team. That number is going to regress, too.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Apr 25, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

That kind of thinking only works well if the planet is static

Not so well now. We need to do much better than eyeball a BABIP of .279 based on our experiences of the last decade or two and say “that doesn’t sound lucky to me.” On this planet, rigorous drug testing has been set up and ERAs have declined down to where they are now approaching their levels during the first 15 or so years of the DH era. Or if you prefer to speak in euphemisms we can find some odd change like ball composition that they’ve just coincidentally enacted when they started cracking down on steroids. Whatever floats your boat.

My ERA numbers for the A’s staff are not “cherry picked” — the are the most obvious ERA numbers to use to judge the performance of the young A’s staff.

As for “fielding independent” numbers like xFIP, they remove most of causes variation in ERA, namely the hits. In the name of removing luck they also remove most of the predictive information. If the A’s staff’s talent consists mainly in reducing the number or hits or extra base hits, xFIP won’t reflect that and there will be a persistent disconnect between the two.. Models have far stronger correlations to ERA if they include hits. So unless we actually need to be fielding independent, and we don’t here, I prefer statistics that don’t throw out most of the information. I myself have an ERA model that closely correlates with historical team pitching. It predicts the near-record performance by the A’s starting staff this year that I expected during the first week of the season based on observing their pitching once through the rotation, though obviously my model is subject to the objection that the A’s starters have been getting so few hits more out of luck than skill.

So let’s look at one of those tools for estimating luck, namely BABIP. If you run regression analysis on league-average BABIPs vs. ERAs, you’ll find there is a good long-term correlation between them that can’t be explained by random luck. Pitchers in the 1960s weren’t consistently luckier than pitchers in the 1970s, who in turn weren’t consistently luckier than pitchers in the 1990s. An important part of the relationship between ERA and BABIP must be explained by persistence factors, whether they be fielding or pitching is irrelevant for this purpose. From 1974-86 when the league average ERA was in the 3.70s the league average (Fangraph) BABIP was in the .270s. In the 1960s league average ERAs and BABIPs were both even lower.

Of course in the shorter term there is a great deal random variation for individual pitchers, and some even for teams, but there is no magical “average BABIP” by which to compare everybody. If the A’s starters were really good enough to sustain an ERA of 2.20, we’d expect them to have a BABIP below .260 based not on any random luck but on the long-term persistent relationship between ERA and BABIP. If they are good enough to end the season at 3.10 then we’d expect them to on average end with a BABIP of about .270. So, like I said, the .279 BABIP is slightly on the lucky side of where they have been performing. You can only say a BABIP of .279 is not on the “lucky” side of the chart if you already come in with a preconception that they “should” regress to a mean of about 3.70 or higher.. In other words, it’s a judgment based not on the BABIP but on the preconception that 2.20 or 3.10 is “too low”. But then you don’t need BABIP, you can just say that 2.20 or 3.0 is “too low” and be done with the argument.

by A's Believer on Apr 25, 2011 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

errata

in the first and last paragraph

“"that doesn’t sound lucky to me”

and

“the .279 BABIP is slightly on the lucky side of where they have been performing”

and

“You can only say a BABIP of .279 is not on the "lucky" side of the chart”

should all read “unlucky”.

by A's Believer on Apr 25, 2011 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

BTW

Offensive statistics vs. previous March/Aprils are also down again this year.to “an alarmingly low level.”

by A's Believer on Apr 26, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is on the bats IMHO.

I think the pitching and defense will stay strong. If the team can average 4 runs a game then I think we have a good shot to win the division.

by RudiFan on Apr 25, 2011 12:14 PM PDT reply actions  

"defense will stay strong"???

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Apr 25, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's with the hand-wringing?

We aren’t starting so terribly badly. We’ve outscored our opponents 80-68 and outhit them 181-163. That our win-loss record is worse than that is random bad luck. Of course, the Rangers have done even better so we have our work cut out for us. Both our batting and our starting pitching can be expected to regress towards some mean — the batting will look a bit better and the pitching will look a bit worse than we’ve seen in April as the season progresses.

by A's Believer on Apr 25, 2011 3:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Now this is actually an argument worthy of credence

The A’s have had the misfortune of beating the pants off the opponent in a few games, instead of having a more even run distribution.

I think that to some degree, this is an endemic problem with a singles-and-walks based offense. When you need three things to go right in an inning, it’s not easy to score— but once you do score, you just need one more thing to go right to keep on scoring. This kind of team tends to score in clumps. There is some evidence that offenses based more strongly on slugging percentage tend to perform slightly better as against their pythagorean record than offenses based more strongly on OBP.

However, that effect is fairly modest (on the order of 1-1.5 pythagorean wins a season), so the current underperformance is probably mostly bad luck.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Apr 25, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

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