The MIF Conundrum: 3 Candidates All With Real Pros & Cons
NOTE FROM NICO, 7:15pm, PDT: There was one error in my original analysis, which I want to correct. Andy LaRoche was signed to a minor league deal (but is not on the 40-man roster), meaning that unless there's a specific clause saying otherwise, presumably the A's can send him to AAA without losing him.
(note from baseballgirl: Don't look for the game thread at 1pm today; the game is at 4pm. We'll see you all back here as the countdown begins to the official Friday night game threads!!!!!)
First of all, you need to understand that "MIF" is an acronym that does not involve the word "Mothers" -- it stands for "Middle Infielder," ok?
Second of all, the A's have 3 candidates fighting for one spot, and it's an unusual situation in that the A's starting SS, Cliff Pennington, is healthy but coming off left shoulder surgery and the clear choice for the job, Adam Rosales, is recovering from off-season foot surgery that will sideline him for at least the season's first month.
So the decision to break camp with Andy LaRoche, Eric Sogard, or Steve Tolleson, comes with the above information very much in mind -- along with other considerations about each candidate's abilities, limitations, and roster status...
Note: I believe all the info below to be accurate, but I'm not 100% sure, so in the comments please feel to correct any errors.
Andy LaRoche
Pros:The A's have long been interested in acquiring LaRoche and now they have him -- as long as they keep him. One reason LaRoche could win the roster spot is that this is how Oakland could guarantee keeping all 3 candidates in the organization.
The A's will probably try to give Pennington his days off against LHP, since swinging RH is both testing the injured shoulder and naturally Pennington's weaker side of the plate anyway. Being a RH batter, LaRoche makes a good fill-in for those games, as you'd want to get his bat in against LHP anyway.
The A's could gamble that the number of "hard to play" balls hit to LaRoche, in the few games he's needed at SS before Pennington can play every single day and before Rosales is back, will be few enough that LaRoche makes for an adequate backup MIF in April.
Cons: LaRoche hasn't played SS since college, and since SS is a position that features a high number of "less than just routine" plays, his inexperience could get exposed at an inopportune time when the A's just need someone who is reliable.
At the plate, LaRoche has had more than a "cup of coffee" in the big leagues. Like Brandon Wood, LaRoche has had many chances to show what he can do in the big leagues and has consistently come up short; way short. His career batting line, in over 1,000 ABs, is .224/.304/.338.
Finally, keeping LaRoche to protect his status with the organization is only a short-term solution. When Rosales returns, you figure to have the exact same problem. Sure, there may be better or worse times, strategically, to expose a player to waivers, but given that the A's are likely looking for only a 6-week or so stop gap at backup MIF, you wonder if delaying LaRoche's exposure 6 weeks is a big consideration.
Eric Sogard
Pros:
Sogard is a patient hitter who, despite a lack of power, might be likely to put up the best wOBA of the trio. He is also an accomplished defensive player in general and is probably, long term, the most promising player of the three. He is reminiscent of a young David Eckstein and that's a pretty strong backup SS to have if you want to start a season without missing a beat for the first 6 weeks.
Sogard also becomes an excellent option to give Mark Ellis a day off, as you could slot Sogard in against a RHP and take advantage of his solid skills at 2B.
Finally, Sogard is on the 40-man roster and has options remaining, so he can easily be shuttled back and forth from Oakland to Sacramento without any maneuvering or risk.
Cons:
As a LH batter, in this 6-week role Sogard might find himself facing mostly LHPs in a backup MIF role, which is not ideal. More problematic is his weak arm, which gives him real limitations as a potential SS.
In other words, do the A's want to put, on the days Pennington needs off, a LH batter who is not well suited to SS, when they have a hitter (LaRoche) and a true SS (Tolleson) as their alternatives?
Steve Tolleson
Pros:
Tolleson is a true "solid defensive SS," period. SS is his natural position and he is regarded as a strong defensive player in general.
As a RH hitter, Tolleson also matches up well to the team's current needs as he would be at his best, offensively, against LHP and that's when he'd most likely be in the lineup.
Overall, Tolleson is probably the safest choice to help, without doing any harm, over the season's first 6 weeks.
Cons:
Tolleson was taken off the 40-man roster this off-season, so if he makes the team out of spring training the A's will need to take someone off the 40-man roster in March.
Tolleson also isn't great at anything, and as a 27-year old who was never a top prospect he is not regarded as much of a prospect long-term. So his addition means not protecting LaRoche, and taking someone off the 40-man roster, in order to provide what might be a 6-week solution.
Conclusion?
You make the call. I tend to lean towards thinking that the fact Oakland just needs a 6-week solution means they will choose the safest and most conservative option, and that's Tolleson -- a guy who can make the plays at SS and give you an ok RH bat against LH pitching. I think they'll take their chances with exposing LaRoche, knowing they'll have to anyway, and will stash Sogard at AAA where he has options and can wait for a better opportunity than a "6-week stopgap mostly at SS." But who knows -- it's one of the few battles that the A's have this spring that is difficult to predict.
A's and White Sox at 4:05pm today from Glendale with, I believe, Bobby Cramer starting for Oakland.
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I'm glad you weren't trying to brag by dropping the "L"
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
by Tutu-late on Mar 18, 2011 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I know this is an article on the MIF'ers, but which one is the best overall choice, if you include the need to rest Kouz?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
LaRoche
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
laroche has been tried at 2B, 1B and 3B. SS is the only position he hasn't tried this spring in a game. unfortunately, SS is the most necessary back up position.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
He's played SS a bit, I thought.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
you're right. he's played 19 innings at short so far this spring.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
This is my thought as well.
He seems to have the stronger arm of the three. We also aren’t positive of Rosales’ recovery timeline, which means his replacement has to be more than just a MiF’er. I also like Andy’s offense so far this Spring.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
I vote LaRoche
I agree with Nico that Sogard’s arm is suspect, so any defensive shortcomings on LaRoche’s part are offset by the idea that Sogard has his own limitations in that regard. I think for the first month or until Rosales is back, Pennington gets his days off but comes in for defense in the 8th or 9th if the game is close, so you don’t get the potential for bad SS defense miscues costing us games late.
Bottom Line (!!) is that La Roche’s bat could help us out in that first month, esp. if he stays as hot as he’s been in ST.
Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.
by emperor nobody on Mar 18, 2011 10:28 AM PDT reply actions
We can't assume Rosales will come back healthy this season.
It would be nice, but he could very easily have recovery setbacks and take altoghether too much time getting his swing back.
Go seawater!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 18, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
On top of that... he doesn't exaclty have a long MLB trackrecord of success...
Yeah. he was a fan favorite last year… but I don’t think he’s a lock to stay in the majors even if he wasn’t hurt.
by Brett Narloch on Mar 18, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
this is all true
I am just operating under the assumption that once Rosales is healthy, the organization is committed to him (rightly/wrongly) as the numero uno infield backup utility guy.
Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.
by emperor nobody on Mar 18, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
well if they are, that might be a mistake.
We’ll see how well he does in extended s/t, then with the RiverCats on rehab…
Go seawater!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 18, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
his defensive flexibility makes his shortcomings on offense tolerable. if pennington got hurt and was going to miss one-fourth of the season, rosales would not be the replacement.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
yes no disagreement here
If Penny got hurt and was out/done and I was BB I’d think about going outside for a stopgap, make a deal of some sort for someone more ML proven, etc.
I personally think that Grant Green will make us all forget about these problems when he’s ML-ready at some point in the somewhat-distant future.
Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.
by emperor nobody on Mar 18, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
it's not clear that his long term defensive position is shortstop.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
exactly
I read somewhere (sorry 4 no link) that he could move to center…i’m going go search 4 that article
Ray Fosse thinks Pete Rose is a prick......
http://cookies.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/27901693
"As a shortstop with his kind of offensive profile is one of the most valuable players in baseball probably, so there is every intention of giving him every opportunity possible to stick there because of the value that he brings to that position," A’s Director of Baseball Operations Farhan Zaidi said.
"But part of that is going to be a question of organizational depth also. We will have to look at Grant’s position moving forward both as a function of how we evaluate his defensive ability and what is the best way to keep him moving up the ladder and get him to the big leagues."
Regardless of where he ends up on the field, Green’s biggest attribute as a player will likely be his offensive game. A’s Scouting Director Eric Kubota likened Green’s offensive profile to Robin Yount when Green was drafted and Green showed Yount-like tendencies in 2010 with his athleticism and in the way that he hit for average and power. Like Yount, Green has good speed, although Green didn’t run often, as the Ports’ powerful line-up limited the number of base-stealing opportunities. Down-the-road, Green should reach the 15-20 stolen base mark. Green could also make the Yount-like move from shortstop to centerfield eventually, although a move to second base seems more likely.
Ray Fosse thinks Pete Rose is a prick......
I vote LaRoche
I’m not sure how much of my reasoning is based on how I liked him as a prospect and how much is logical, but LaRoche still inspires some belief in me that he will hit (then again so did Brandon Wood). He also makes a quite nice backup CIF.
I’m not as big a fan of Sogard as some, and Tolleson does nothing for me. The A’s aren’t good enough that I shy away from an upside play.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
I want Laroche
I still believe he could be something dangerous with the bat. Not necessarily the monster he was supposed to be, but I think the guy just needed out of Pittsburgh.
That being said, I need to know he can hold his own at SS before I up and give him the job.
All I can say about stats is…
SCOTT BROSIUS!!
After reading everyone's comments, I feel more justified in my choice of LaRoche.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Shades of last year
Is anyone else thinking about Jake Fox (and Eric Patterson) right now? LaRoche starting to resemble this, as we have him with the promising bat (who also stunk it up mostly in his big league chances, like Fox) and probably not up to snuff defensively that we want to keep around so other teams don’t claim him.
Whomever the best defender is, that’s the guy I want. I’ve heard mixed stuff on Sogard defensively. SuSlu insinuated on Monday she thought the A’s had him pegged as the superior defender, but then the Friday before said he’s not an ideal fit. So, I don’t know; like I said — best defender is who we take.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
Not really.
We got Jake before Kouz came on board, and E-Patsy couldn’t even field his given position(2nd), very well. I still have no idea as to way Eric was on the 25-man last April. All three of this year’s choices seem to be better defenders.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
We could have cut Fox, though
And kept Cust around for the whole season. That’s sort of my point; it’s just that this year keeping LaRoche comes at the opportunity cost of potentially better defense in Tolleson and Sogard, whereas last year the opportunity cost was Cust’s superior offense. Tolleson and Sogard are more of a known commodity (for better or for worse) as was Cust, over the promise of Fox, and now the promise of LaRoche.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Tolleson was already removed from the 40 man.
Strangely enough, putting him back on the 40 man would likely mean letting LaRoche go.
Keeping LaRoche on the big league roster allows the organization to keep all 3 players.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
None of these three seem to be a true SS.
Plus, since this is to be a backup role, I like ability of Andy to also play 3rd, as well as his possible better bat off the bench. I really don’t know what the deal was with Cust’s DFA last April, other than his SO rate. There just seemed to be more wishful thinking by management, than serious analysis.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
This is indeed the conundrum
None of these three seem to be a true SS
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
It really is.
And if you look at who is available, the cupboard is bare. Luis Castillo was cut today, but, he is another 2nd baseman. These three seem to be the only options.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
conor jackson (or a 5th outfielder) creates a sizable roster construction problem until rosales is ready to go.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
which is the Chavez conundrum revisited.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Chavez and his salary probably had more to do with Cust's DFA than Fox.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Just that its a waste of a roster spot
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
I hope when Rosales is ready, we dump Jackson
Rosales can play OF, too.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
exactly. having a 5th OF that really only plays OF is a problem. rosales is perfect. he's competent defensively in many places and is right handed.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
This is not a good analogy
First, Patterson and Fox were kept because they were out of options—it was either keep them in Oakland, trade them, or put them on waivers. LaRoche and Tolleson aren’t even on the 40 man roster, so they can send them to AAA if they want. Sogard has options left, so he can also be kept. The A’s aren’t in danger of losing any of these guys.
Second, Fox didn’t take Cust’s spot; he took Powell’s spot.
This is true
Although my main point was keeping a guy around on the 25-man for a nebulous benefit (especially one whose SS skills may leave much to be desired) may not be wise.
Neither Fox nor E-Patsy belonged on the team last year, period.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Tolleson is not a natural shortstop or a strong defensive player overall
Check his Total Zone MiLB numbers. He’s a butcher everywhere except 2B.
This was my impression as well. If he were a natural SS, I'd pick him, but since I don't think he is, I won't
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 18, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I vote LaRoche as well
What’s actually good about this being a set 6-week need (rather than some nebulous Fox-like “sort of occasionally DH for the whole season” plan), is that is provides an opportunity for the A’s to analyze LaRoche at a Major League level without relying on him. LaRoche has the best prospect pedigree of the group, but has certainly struggled at the Major League level in the past.
In the six week block, the A’s would have an opportunity to see if LaRoche has put something together to the point where he could be a good fill-in should a starter get injured. If he does, that’s great and the A’s have confidence in a Plan B option should things go bad, and if he doesn’t, then the A’s won’t have to waste as much time with him in the event of an injury to a starter.
It seems like the A’s can take a chance on upside without it costing them much. Rosales is coming back in six weeks, so even if LaRoche bombs, it’s only a temporary situation. If this were a more full-season plan, I might go with the safer choice in Sogard, but it’s not, so I’d go with upside.
of course, if you jettison jackson
you can have youcan have 2 MIFS
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
and it would only cost like... a million dollars
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
not if its done before march 15
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
#ShakesFist
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Sigh
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Wow, that's weird, the entire bottom part of this comment was cut off
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Probably it was bracketed by some punctuation mark
that you didn’t realize SBN would treat as a code….
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
it seems to me that there are two ways to think about this
1.) pennington is hurt and rosales isn’t ready yet. this is the toughest scenario. i think you bring up a horton or somebody like that. defense first and offense second.
2.) pennington needs a day off or we’re facing a lefty starter. i’d use laroche in a situation like that and sub in a defensive replacement like tolleson late in the game. this is where conor jackson creates a roster problem. keeping him as a 5th outfielder is a disaster. i’d rather go with 4 outfielders (sweeney) and a back up defensive first utility infielder. matsui or laroche (if he’s not in the game elsewhere) can be the emergency, finish a game 5th outfielder.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I don't think 5 OFers is warranted either.
It seems overkill, especially when you consider the number of stopgap outfielders available in our system.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
this seems to be a consensus on this site, but the front office seems to disagree.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Maybe they were hoping he would build up value, at which point they could trade him to a team with a surplus of SS's
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
I'll be furious if BB keeps Conor and options Sweeney.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Then DeJesus becomes the backup CF, which I don't like
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 18, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
the back up back up
2 people have to go down before DeJesus is shifted to center.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
i think the point was if we cut sweeney, then dejesus becomes the backup cf
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
ah, Reading comprehension fail
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
i'd blame it on the rain if i were you...or milli vanilli more generally
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
i don't think you can trade a backup outfielder for a SS of any competence
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I was tinking more along the lines of a stopgap prospect, who was an actual SS.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Horton, as WC mentioned below
But it doesn’t sound like he’s under consideration
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
well not for a 25 man roster spot. but as i noted below if pennington got hurt and had to miss a large chunk of games without rosales being ready, i think horton is the best bet.
tolleson, sogard and laroche would make interesting choices to give pennington a day off or when the a’s are facing a left handed starter
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Exactly, We aren't looking for a SS.
We are looking for the best utility infielder. Hopefully one that plays a serviceable OF
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
right. i think this is why laroche fits best on the team.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Let's see...
We already have someone acting as a manager, so maybe BB can find another role for Conor.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
But, not totally crazy considering Coco and everyone else's injury history
Which is why Rosales and his super utility status is sorely missed right now.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
it's okay if your 5th outfielder is at aaa. putting him on the roster is the problem.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Damn, Scot Shields retired
gonna miss him teeing it up for us.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
LaRoche is my choice...
He’s had a pretty decent spring, which may lead to him being claimed. If he blows a few games at SS and doesn’t hit well, then we should have no problem sending him back down to AAA.
I think his bat is very intriguing. He’s a possible cheap Ellis or Kouzmanoff replacement for next year.
I'd pick Horton, as the only real backup SS, but I don't think they'd have cut him already
if they’d planned to do that. My next choice would be LaRoche, cutting Jackson when Rosales came back, but I doubt the FO is thinking of cutting Jackson. I’d guess that they keep Tolleson for a month till Rosales comes back and then DFA him.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 18, 2011 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
I was under the impression that Horton wasn't much of a SS option either
TotalZone absolutely loathed him. Unless he’s basically gone from bad to good in a single season… ugh.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Yes, I was grasping at straws and relying on Lockard's reporting of Lieppman
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 19, 2011 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd like to see Sogard
I’m more of a fan of rewarding overachievers as opposed to underachievers.
Hard to argue with the logistical reasons for picking LaRoche though
Question
Can Rosales be moved to the 60 day DL before the season allowing Laroach/Tolleson to be added.
Follow up
when would he be eligible to come back? 60 days after move, or can it be retroactive.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
that gets him onto the 40 man. no room for him on the 25 man still
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Again, who do you kick off the 40-man if we all want LaRoche?
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I wouldn't mind a clarification on LaRoche's status with the A's
You mention that by not putting LaRoche on the 25 man roster that the A’s would risk losing him but I’m a little unclear on exactly what the process is for guys signed to minor league contracts. It’s not as if he’s on the 40-man roster so there are no issues with exercising options or having to DFA him to get him to Sacramento.
I seem to remember hearing that some veterans will sign minor league contracts with out-clauses that allow them to become free agents if they don’t make the team out of spring training, but LaRoche was a free agent this off-season with a chance to sign anywhere. He has a pretty mediocre major league track record so I’m somewhat skeptical that he would sign here in January only to jump ship right before the season if he doesn’t make the team. I can’t imagine he would have a much better shot of making a major league roster in April than he did earlier in the off-season.
I too would like that clarification.
It seems to me the underlying assumption in this entire conversation is exactly backwards. LaRoche was signed to a minor-league deal with an invitation to spring training. As of right now, he is not on the 40-man roster. Therefore, to have him start the season in AAA would not expose him to waivers. On the other hand, starting him with the big-league club would require moving someone else off the 40-man to make room to LaRoche, and then if later in the season LaRoche is sent back down he would be exposed to waivers then.
Am I missing something here?
There are other factors to consider, of course, but just in terms of keeping all the guys in the system, the safe choice would be Sogard, the only one of the three already on the 40-man.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Sometimes guys like LaRoche sign a deal with an out clause
It may be that he can become a free agent if he is sent to the minors or is not on the big club on a certain date. Count me amongst those looking for that to be cleared up.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
Everything I've read,
including the club’s official press release, just say “minor-league contract with invitation to spring training”. Sure doesn’t sound like any sort of out clause there.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Also, the reason LaRoche was available
was that he became a free agent after clearing waivers. If every team passed on him, was he really in a position to negotiate a contract with that sort of clause?
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Yeah, I haven't seen anything about an out-clause
then if later in the season LaRoche is sent back down he would be exposed to waivers then.
It looks like he has at least one option year left, so they could send him back down without exposing him to waivers.
Yes -- I clarified this today with Slusser but didn't have a chance to post until now
He was signed to a minor league deal (which I had not remembered) but is not on the 40-man roster. Therefore, the A’s COULD in fact send him to the minors and not risk losing him, but would have to remove someone from the 40-man to do so. Not as big a deal as I had thought — and thus a “con” for LaRoche getting the spot, since the A’s can option him and still keep him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Was the game worse in person?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
It wasn't terrific.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, I hope your interview went well with Trevor.
I look forward to reading it
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
It was surprisingly good!
Everyone warned me it would be terrible, that he was not chatty, and I just nodded my head and said “ok” — waited for him to be available and did a really cool interview with him. Great guy, too. Really nice and unpretentious.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
people have been telling you things about Cahill a lot, it seems
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Quite a few of the A's prospects have this "nice guy" trait
I wonder if it isn’t part of BB’s secret metrix
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
LaRoche seems like the best choice for now,
but Sogard is going to be a pretty decent player for years to come.
Go seawater!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 18, 2011 12:33 PM PDT reply actions
If the Angles cut Brandon Wood do we want to try to pick him up to play SS and hope he finds whatever he forgot?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 12:34 PM PDT reply actions
probably as good as or better than Laroche or Sogard.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
plenty of MiLB experience
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
TZ seems to think he's not great, though
-21
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
UZR hates him at SS and loves him at 3b in small sample sizes (though the 3b one is 2x bigger)
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
The BRef MiLB data come to the same conclusion
But the SSS is reversed: at least 2x bigger for SS.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 18, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
since you proposed the idea, i assume you think it's worth a shot?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Yeah I do. I think a "change o scenery" might be what the doctor ordered and I don't love any of the A's options right now.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Sort of like Travis' situation?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
I guess?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe the change in hitting philosophy/coaching will help Brandon.
Looking at his MiL numbers, nothing jumps out at me. What were his prospects?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
You mean the .360+ wOBA in AAA in 2009 2008 and 2007? For a SS thats phenomenal.
or maybe these will turn your head a bit
Prospect Ratings by Baseball America:
Pre-2005: Rated #83 Prospect
Pre-2006: Rated #3 Prospect
Pre-2007: Rated #8 Prospect
Pre-2008: Rated #16 Prospect
Dude was the Bees Knees for a while.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, he was a sure fire prospect (or as much as one can be)
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
The Ks were a concern but the dude walked a bunch.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you.
This is why I was asking. Since I don’t understand stats, they sometimes just look like numbers to me.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
No problem. Back in the Tejada's heyday with the O's they wouldn't even talk about him when they were trying to trade for him
Think like Bryce Harper status.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 18, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I've heard of a player being the heart of his team
and the brains of his team, but this is the first time i’ve ever heard one called the knees of his team.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
he is in the line up today
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
I'd rather see if change-of-scenery works for him than Andy LaRoche, I'll say that much
He was a much more highly regarded prospect.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Gametime reminder - thanks
and I was looking forward to listening this afternoon. Always makes working more pleasant.
#8. Seriously, how cool a name is Dallas Braden?
SuSlu on Rosales from her twitter stream
basically says that he has still not be cleared for baseball activities, but still eyes an early May return.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Wes Timmons
He’s just as cromulent as these three guys.
cromulent
is a perfectly cromulent word…
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!
by CmdrKhraanik on Mar 18, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Showoffs
Can’t you just say legitimate?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
sorry...
…just trying to embiggen the dialogue ; )
(what the hell’s wrong with my spell-check?)
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!
by CmdrKhraanik on Mar 18, 2011 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but you keep forcing me to use dictionary.com.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
"Wow, that fish is embiggen!"
Did I use it properly?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Well played, and... I got nothin'.
As far as the MIF conundrum, I’m leaning towards the most adept glove, whoever the hell that would be. LaRoche’s upside would be his offensive potential, but does it exist? He’s having a good Spring; so is Jake Fox. Anybody remember Randy Elliott? Can we coax Dave Chalk out of retirement? Anybody miss Bobby Crosby? Me neither.
On a peripheral note, given the medical history of our current OF corps, keeping a 5th one around ain’t a bad idea. But Conor Jackson makes me wince.
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!
by CmdrKhraanik on Mar 18, 2011 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Is that wince right before throwing up?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Yeah, but just a little bit in my mouth. Gross.
Hey, did Gabe Gross catch on with anyone this year?
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!
by CmdrKhraanik on Mar 18, 2011 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he joined Cust, and hooked up with Seattle.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Yes, both can be.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
It'll be Sogard, if he's healthy.
Already on the 40 man, has shortstop experience, and the team currently seems to be giving him every opportunity to start at and play short. Unless he completely falls apart with the bat over the next two weeks (and Laroche hits like 10 homers or something), it’ll be him. He’s the safe option.
LaRoche has no professional experience at short and someone needs to be exposed to waivers to get him on the 25 man roster. His lack of experience at short and the fact that he’s not that distinguished from Sogard on paper is enough to make possibly losing another player a needless risk. Personally, I’d choose LaRoche anyways since I like his upside and I don’t really care about DFAing Guillermo Moscoso. But I can see why the A’s wouldn’t bother.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."





























