Andrew Bailey: Now What?
by danmerqury on Mar 15, 2011 7:00 AM PDT
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PrintI'll update this post with any news that breaks throughout the day.
Update 2: He's...okay? Jane Lee tweets, "Andrew Bailey diagnosed with strained right forearm." She continues, quoting Dr. James Andrews, "Bailey 'experienced no swelling and can resume throwing when asymptomatic.'"
Update 1: Paul Swydan wrote a nice summary of the situation and Oakland's options for this year at Fangraphs.
For those who don't know, Andrew Bailey was making his second Spring Training appearance against the Indians yesterday when he jumped up after throwing a pitch, clutching his right elbow and doubling over in pain. Recall that this was the same elbow he had "clean up" surgery on almost six months ago to remove bone chips. We don't yet know how serious this injury is, but bear with me for a few minutes and let's assume the worst.
What if Andrew Bailey is out for the year?
Thankfully, due to the acquisitions of Brian Fuentes and Grant Balfour, the Oakland bullpen is one of the deepest in the league. Losing a player of Bailey's caliber is never easy, but Oakland may actually be relatively alright. Assuming a twelve-man pitching staff, we're looking at five starters and seven relievers to fill the roster. One of these relievers will most likely be a long reliever, who is almost assuredly going to be the runner-up in the fifth starter competition. Of the six relievers remaining, Brian Fuentes, Grant Balfour, Craig Breslow, and Michael Wuertz have roster spots locked down. The candidates to fill those two spots left? Brad Ziegler, Jerry Blevins, and Joey Devine.
Ziegler and Blevins played fairly hefty roles in 2010's bullpen, and while they weren't great, they were serviceable, with the potential for a bit more. And when you're looking at the back end of your bullpen, "serviceable" is perfectly okay. Joey Devine, on the other hand, is supremely talented, but is coming off of Tommy John surgery. He's posted atrocious numbers this spring, walking eight batters in 4.1 innings. Obviously, his control is off, and he'll most likely need some time in AAA Sacramento to iron out the kinks, but he could be a gem in waiting.
Feel free to use the comment space to discuss other options, ramifications, and news as it breaks.
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Fuentes FTW?
Good thing the A’s have a billion relievers. Too bad half of them are injury-prone.
/sigh
His track record in Mexico was mediocre. What impresses you about him?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I too am high on Marti
Marti I think has poise, which is overrated, but he pitched very well in the 2006 WBC and has pitched well this year too. At 31, I think he might be an easier adjustment than a TJS recovering Devine. I mean ultimately we’re talking last spot in the bullpen we dont need the greatest reliever ever here, just someone good.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
The other factor is that he's a "deception" guy,
meaning he doesn’t rely on velocity and “stuff” so much as changing speeds and fooling hitters — and those guys often do best when the league knows them the least. He might have one really good season in him: His first one. And at 31 years old, he doesn’t need time to learn how to pitch. He just needs to fool hitters enough.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm excited to see Marti this year in Sacramento.
I really think the RiverCats are going to DESTROY the PCL this year. I’m really excited.
"If loving AN is wrong, I don't wanna be right."- ozzman99
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
This is really true
I remember how devastating Hideki Okajima was his first year in the league. He’s been sort of decent since, but he was awesome that first year when nobody knew him.
by oakballnack on Mar 15, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
nomo was over 2 war every full year except one from age 26 to age36
I think his decline was more due to age that loss or trickery
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Okajima has a crazy windup though
I don’t think Marti looks quite like some sort of praying mantis a la Okajima.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
But is anyone hi on Marty?
:q Badum-bum!
This is bad news….I was watching the game on DVR then I got bored by the 6th inning and erased the rest of the game so I didn’t see Bailey go down in flames. Well, does anybody think that Beane wasted money on bullpen arms now?
Go A’s!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
hey-o
always high on Marty-Rod
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Word....
:)
Glad someone got it…!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
I don't get it.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
That's what she said...
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
I think he would say that, not her...
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Or if you had questionable company...
:0
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
He looked great
We saw him twice while we were there and he was nails.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
He's 31???
Well, that explains a lot!
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
It took him a while to piece together a raft from driftwood and palm fronds
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
True
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this post....
I just remember everytime the Angels would roll him out to close thinking to myself, “this guy sucks, we got him!”
I'll take it all back if he's our closer now
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, willing to give someone else a chance in that role.
But I think he was basically promised “backup closer” when he signed (based on the incentives for games finished). So he is gonna be, unless he sucks.
by Billy Frijoles on Mar 15, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
But he's been spot on this spring
Think of the alternatives. Sure, he’s no Eck but he’s no Dotel either.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Silver lining...
Get Balfour 40 saves and trade him away…
Or keep him and get him 40 more saves next year
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions
This gets my vote... It has to be Balfour.
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.
by the_rozeboom on Mar 15, 2011 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
A's have a lot of good arms
Probably won’t miss a lick.
Question to be asked: was Beane acquiring Balfour & Fuentes prescient, or pure damned luck? He did, after all, wait for quite some time before gobbling them up.
They were available late and the A's had money
It was prescient in that the team is guaranteed at least 5,007 injuries. And that’s just in the first half of the season.
I love green because money be green.
Don't you think the 7 is a bit pessimistic?
I got nothin'
by OptimistPrime on Mar 15, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
not this year...
Bailey…. 2 weeks to a month of Matsui sometime midseason with a hamstring pull (seamlessly replaced by Carter)… and Rich the Yo-Yo Harden…
"If loving AN is wrong, I don't wanna be right."- ozzman99
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
see my comment above...
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Still intrigued by Yadel Marti.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
6K/9IP in Mexico. What's intriguing?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
His name sounds cool.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
True
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Grit
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
you're a man of character, marty.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I am indeed a character, Bloomy!
:)
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
you possess true grit.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
"It'll cost ya $50.00 for my services..."
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
I wanna grow a beard like that.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
what's stopping you?
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Hehe....
It is pretty bad ass, isn’t it?
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
I could probably pull that off given about two months
Not gray though
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
My beard actually looks something like that
when I grow it out.
Which is weird, because my face is nothing like his at all.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Mine too.
At 45 years old, I have never been able to grow a beard out because of my employment. When I retire, I don’t think I will ever shave again.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
You might be surprised
I tried it and found it intolerably itchy. I’m hardly in favor of authoritarian limitations on facial hair, but I have no plans to ever have any, either.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
If I'm on my own,
I’m generally happiest to shave about every three days. When I’m not on my own, I follow the preference of the lady in my life.
I can happily go either way, but now that it’s gray it makes a huge difference in my appearance. With the beard I almost look my age, whereas without it I can pass for 10-15 years younger.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
On the other hand
Gray facial hair is sort of dignified. Very professorial.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I love it.
I’ve grayed my hair for shows and I think it’s fun. When my hair is short I look good with plenty of gray on my temples and a little bit in the top. My last major relationship before I was married was with someone I met when I was done up like that.
While it is undeniable advantageous to pass for younger than I am, I enjoy playing with age looks, in both directions. No cult of perpetual youth for me.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
I think when I start balding I'm just going to shave my head
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
That looks weird to me. I do the close clipper thing
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Or, the Al Davis comb-over
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Like this
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't do that
Plus I have to remind myself never to make that facial expression
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
That's one scary dude!
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
"We are the Borg"
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Borg is being kind
Satan is probably a better description.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
I'd like to try that sometime.
My lady friend is adamantly opposed to me trying it now, though.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
i wear my hair hight and tight. the ladies like to touch it.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
three days is good
any more, intolerably itchy comes into play.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Yes, and furthermore,
that’s when the actual shaving process is most satisfying. If you only have a day of whiskers, then shaving is just like scraping your face unnecessarily. On the other hand, if it’s longer than three days then it doesn’t shave easily. Two and a half to three days is just right. For me, anyway.
By the way, the itchiness stops once the beard gets long and soft enough. But current fashions don’t generally grow it that bushy, what with the trim little goatees that everyone likes now.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Most people don't realize, for whatever reason
that facial hair is still… HAIR.
Make it a bit softer and it’ll be less itchy. IE, when you’re in the shower and you are shampooing your hair, shampoo your facial hair as well. It helps.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
And the truth is-
You do whatever is necessary to keep the lady happy
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
which is why i shaved...not that it helped me keep the girl.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Ahh, but this is one of those things that can help to achieve the 27 years
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Sorry
I never said that work wasn’t involved
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Then, you're on your way!!!
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
conditioner FTW
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
everyone shampoos there, right?
I mean, that’s just basic.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
i starts out itchy and then it goes away after a few weeks. at least that's been my experience in the past.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Yeah, but we are talking about facial hair, not hair on your back.
Maybe this is causing your nerve problems?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
The most I can stomach is hair on the cheeks
Neck has to be kept clean. Just too itchy otherwise.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
You're probably right.
Before I went into the military I had very long hair. They took care of that in very short order, but I swore when I got out I was going to grow it back out. That lasted until it started touching the top of my ears. It drove me insane, and since then my hair has never gotten longer than a couple inches.
Sadly, iglew hit on another point. On occassion I will take a couple weeks off work and forego the hell of dragging a razor across my face every day. At the end of two weeks, I look like a grizzled old gray bear a couple days short of dying.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Hair on top of my ears drives me insane
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Just wait.
Some day hair will be growing ON your ears. It’s a middle age thing.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
And you'll know it when you receive nose-hair clippers for Christmas
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
...
Already there. No ear hair though.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 4:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
genetics?
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
2006 WBC Against Good Competition
12.2IP/11K . I think he has potential more than currently wild Devine is showing.
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Granted I get that experience is a bit old
But it is a high pressure environment and he thrived which is what I like
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
I hope he gets more appearances against actual MLers for the next two weeks
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Me too
I think he could really be a nice little pick up for us. We have a history of a surprise non-roster invitee making hte club, maybe this is 2011s?
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Agreed that he needs to face better competition in the spring
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
like Andrew Bailey?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Mexican League averages were 5.4 K/9, 3.9 BB/9, 0.8 HR/9
Not sure if Veracruz is a hitters park or not…
My pen if no one else gets hurt
Balfour
Fuentes
Wuertz
Breslow
Ziegler
Blevins
McCarthy (or Ross if they insist on starting McCarthy)
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
Ross needs to start in AAA if he's not the 5th starter
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Then you've got Cramer as long man
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Who is much better served as a long reliever than wasting Tyson Ross in that role.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Maybe....or maybe it's more of a waste to have him in AAA. It can be argued either way.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
assuming he is a starter in aaa. what's the argument against that?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
That he's not contributing to the major league club even though he's one of the
12 best pitchers on the team….particularly if he’s not a long term solution due to potential health issues. I might even rather have him than Ziegler, even if you keep Cramer for the long man role.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have him stretched out
Down in Sacramento’s rotation and ready to go if Anderson’s elbow explodes or Bradens toes need to be amputated rather than pitching in non leverage situations out of the big club’s bullpen. With the exception of Cahill and Gonzalez, our rotation is still very precariously hanging onto it’s “good” health. I’d rather have Ross as rotation insurance should he not win the fifth starter spot (which, based on his performance thus far, I think he should.)
by oakballnack on Mar 15, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Marti long man
Cramer and Ross are starters. Trust me, we’ll need at least one of them before long. Marti is the perfect long man…not a starter, not a closer, throws 2-4 innings each outing.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Journeyman guy who's a soft-tosser and can go 5IP if needed
Sounds like the long guy to me.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I would be so fucking happy
if Cramer were our long man.
It’s completely unsustainable and irrational, but if Cramer’s our long man, we’re going to have A FUCKTON OF IMPROBABLE COMEBACKS.
Cramer has almost as much mojo as Braden or Fosse.
"If loving AN is wrong, I don't wanna be right."- ozzman99
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with G_S.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
Ross should be set up to be in the rotation one way or the other
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
by dwishinsky on Mar 15, 2011 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My main comment is that I'd really prefer to see
Balfour, or even Wuertz or Breslow, close than Fuentes. As long as the A’s have a very good reliever closing, they’ll close out most of the savable games.
What I don’t want to see is Fuentes forced to face a ton of RHs in high leverage situations, while the A’s in turn lose an excellent “LOOGY” for those key “face Hamilton, Morneau, Ortiz” situations.
I say, keep Fuentes and Ziggy in roles where you can slot them in more strategically, and give the 9th innings to a “very good reliever” — the A’s have plenty, with Balfour, Breslow, and Wuertz.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Mar 15, 2011 8:12 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Fuentes, Breslow and Balfour all have about a 108 Career tOPS+ vs. the other handed batters
so I’m OK with any of them closing or being an “8th Inning Guy”. The one guy who’s worse is Wuertz, at 113 tOPS+ vs lefties
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW Bailey is at 101, so he would be the best choice not to be platooned (SSS caveat)
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions
True, but does that mean you would rather pitch him less and more strategically?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, you would want to use Fuentes less
and only when the majority of hitters he would face would be left handed. If that’s in the ninth in a save opportunity, so be it. We don’t need a closer. We need guys that can get hitters out and we need Bobo to use them against the correct hitters.
(cf. my article on Platooning Closers)
John 3:16
Did you write that Fangraphs article?
If so, well done!
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah they gave me a call
told me that their writers had been sucking lately and asked me for some input. I did what I could.
John 3:16
Reminds me
there was a fellow (Dave ?)wrote a Front Page article and took a lot of guff for it; is he still around or did he run for the hills?
by Omnipotent One on Mar 15, 2011 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Seeing as how people in the organization, as well as Ms. Slusser read this blog,
can we turn Nico’s comment green to attract more attention?
I think he has good points that should filter back.
"If loving AN is wrong, I don't wanna be right."- ozzman99
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
okay.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I am humbled
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No FDLS love for the last spot in the pen?
Realistically, I think what happens is that Fuentes closes and Ziegler/Blevins get the roles, as Blevins becomes the LOOGY. Say what you want about the “closer mentality,” but at the very least Fuentes becomes a good candidate for “mediocre reliever that can get inflated with saves before traded away.”
by Rebuilding Season on Mar 15, 2011 9:46 AM PDT reply actions
Harden?
Would a defined role out of the bullpen keep him healthy? He certainly has closer stuff.
by GreggC on Mar 15, 2011 9:59 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I think that's the hope, but he couldn't even make it that far without the lat problem
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
His role is likely to be defined as
out of the bullpen, out of the rotation, and in the training room.
Is it spring yet?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Mar 15, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Sucks about Bailey...
Whenever you hear someone is headed out to see Dr. James Andrews, the worst has to be feared. Guess its a good thing we have a couple hundred relievers who can potentially close on the roster this year. I suspect Fuentes will get the first shot at it, since he’s been the “closer” elsewhere and people tend to label people as such. Hopefully he doesn’t suck. I think I agree with those here who would prefer Balfour.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
The Jody Shelley of FearTheFin's Mod Squad.
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 15, 2011 10:01 AM PDT reply actions
I don't know if I'd rather hear
“After clutching his arm in pain, Bailey was taken by managed Bob Geren to the Goodyear, AZ Urgent Care Clinic as they were in his insurance network.”
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Speaking of Andrews
Is he the only orthopedic surgeon in the world that specializes in elbows or what? What happens when he dies or retires? Never heard of a pitcher who went to someone else with an elbow problem.
Frank Jobe here in LA
He did the first TJS. But, Andrews has more of a whole deal for high-performance athletes specifically, I believe.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
well since it used to be Dr. Frank Jobe, I am betting there will be another doctor taking over
as the “worlds leading expert” what ever that means
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Out here in Texas there's Keith Meister
I hate seeing his name on the A’s website unless it says something like “Second opinion from Dr. Meister seems promising”
John 3:16
Although a pure closer-by-committee approach is unlikely
Since it’s probably too much for Bobo and it serves as an unneeded lightning rod for beat writer/casual fan idiotism, I still hope Fuentes won’t be trotted out every time there’s a save situation. Wuertz or Balfour should pitch the ninth if there are two righties in a row up.
by Manstein on Mar 15, 2011 10:01 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Like I said in the postgame thread
Some teams are fortunate in being able to slide someone else into the closer’s role and have it work out. Others have gone through lots of problems when faced with that situation, in part because their bullpen depth was thin.
There aren’t many Mariano Riveras or Trevor Hoffmans out there. The A’s have been fairly lucky with their closers over the past decade when you consider what they’ve got out of Isringhausen, Dotel, Koch, Foulke, Street, Bailey, etc. They just as easily could have had a revolving door of guys who were awful at it.
They’ve set themselves up in a decent position by adding arms like Fuentes and Balfour, but if they didn’t have those guys we’d probably be looking at a closer-by-committee situation and I don’t recall that ever working out in the long run for teams. Closing is not a role just anyone can step right into and succeed at a high rate.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I haven't forgotten TARE....
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
What? What?
Dotel scared the heck out of me. Isringhausen too. Koch was even worse. He’d walk two to start the ninth. Foulke, Street and Bailey are better but I was raised on Fingers and Eck. Give me someone who throws strikers instead of heat anytime. Bailey looks to be the best of both worlds…ergo, he must be injured.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Save percentages for each of them here
Isringhausen: 82.4%
Dotel: 79.5%
Koch: 88.0%
Isringhausen and Dotel were a little low for me (I consider about 85% or better to be good enough for me) but they were still better than a number of others do. Koch vultured a few wins from the few games he blew, but he was better. Street was actually more around the high 70s but I know some of his problems had to do with injuries. Bailey’s been in the high 80s so far.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
it'd be more helpful to know the mix of their saves. multi-inning. how well they do with a 1 run, 2 run or 3 run lead.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
OK...I stand corrected.
Dotel scared me the most. I say “give me accuracy instead of heat”. I think we’re in good shape with Fuentes. I like having multiple closers.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
You've answered your own question
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You bet it was!
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Zut alors!
If I believed in curses, I would be sacrificing a chicken to Jobu on an A’s altar right now. I’m glad that the A’s bullpen is deep, to attempt to cover for this, but it’s never great to have a good player go missing. If Geren is going to use his closer in a fairly orthodox way, then maybe it’s not so bad with Fuentes in the role, as often there will be important situations that don’t fall into the “1-3 runs ahead/9th inning” and this will allow him to freely use the best pitcher (Wuertz, Balfour, whomever). Or at least, that’s what I’m trying to tell myself. . .
They were long and pretty
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 15, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I was about to say...
This is depressing me. Tell me about the home runs Carter hit.
Those were awesome. Seriously, it has been a long time since I have seen that kind of power coming from someone on the A’s (by a long time, I mean 2006). Now if only he could do that in regular season games! I hope this is the year he puts it all together
I was trying to remember
The last time anyone hit a rocket like that to the opposite field… The scoreboard shot was impressive, but oppo… DAMN!
Built for DIИGERZ!
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Those were so beautiful
Seeing that sheer power is breathtaking. We could definitely use that.
by Billy Frijoles on Mar 15, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
And yeah...
Can we get people to starting bringing dingers to the games this year? That was true A’s lore. And the broadcast last year with Monte Moore (and Suzuki’s HR as I recall) was priceless.
Let’s make Oakland Dingerdom again!
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Who cares who closes for the A's...
If Crisp keeps tearing it up from the leadoff spot and the bat continues to sizzle, we may not even face a save situation because we’ll be well ahead of whatever losers we’re playing!!!
:)
Every man for himself...
Closers are highly overrated as far as I'm concerned.
The A’s didn’t get lucky all those years. They just ran out some decent relievers. Any failed starter who can go threw a line up one time will make a great “closer”. I love Bailey, but in the realm that is A’s injuries…..this is a “meh” as far as I’m concerned.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
True dat.
I’d be way more worried with an injury to a guy we anticipate pitching 200 innings than one who we figure on for 50
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Live from Sarasota....Brett Wallace just had his seventh RBI of the day.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
He wasnt playing all that well up until today.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Jake Fox also hit his 5th HR of the srping today!
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Quad-A!
"If loving AN is wrong, I don't wanna be right."- ozzman99
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Travis Buck leads all spring training with 100 hrs!
I got nothin'
by OptimistPrime on Mar 15, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
and hotness
-OAH
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Bobby Crosby
has a 1.000/1.000/4.000 slash line in 587 ABs!
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Is he playing Farm at Little League again?
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Fail
I talked to catcher Landon Powell, who was behind the plate when Bailey suffered the injury, and he shared some insight.
"He had some tightness in his elbow," Powell said. "Definitely going into the inning, he didn’t feel normal. But he felt good enough to pitch. Obviously he didn’t think anything like that was going to happen. You wish you could freeze time. It sucks."
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
that's freaking amazing. it's his career, but sheesh ask someone for help.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
it sorta sounds like he and Powell kept it to themselves
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Now if we had Donaldson as our C would this have happened....
Hmmmm….
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Not every player is Breslow.
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
It's stupid but understandable.
The thing is that every player has some lingering pain here or there. Just the stress of repetitive high torque and speed motions day in and day out, at the highest levels with pressure to perform…you’ll always be sore somewhere.
So I think it is natural to think a little stiffness isn’t anything to be worried about.
Granted, in Spring Training, coming back from a surgery, people would take greater precautions…but you might also think, I need to prove to myself that I can pitch effectively with a little elbow stiffness because that will be happening all season long coming back from an injury.
by Billy Frijoles on Mar 15, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
It sounds to me as if it felt like "normal soreness"
and Bailey reasonably thought he could and should pitch through it. I don’t blame anyone on this; it just sucks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And they did hold him back an extra day, so they were aware that he wasn't 100%.
Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.
So it's quite strange to watch this game, live from Sarasota.
From 12th Street.and Tuttle…
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
It was teh awesome! Some bloke made this effed up video and a good time was had by a small crowd.
How was your birthday, star brother?
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
off da hizook
did the Disneyland thing, broke some rides, puked on teh teacups, spilled my soda; real rock star shit.
I got nothin'
by OptimistPrime on Mar 15, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
sounds fun!
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
you know that guy?
how about that one?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
I started thinking about it.
Combine spring training with Siesta Key/Siesta Key Beach and it would be a very cool place to spring break!
Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I blame this on csnbayarea.com
they posted an “injury free spring” article a couple days ago. blast you CSN!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Pam will be glad to hear you're in her corner.
"If loving AN is wrong, I don't wanna be right."- ozzman99
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
he just didn't know it's
#blamepammonth
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
oh I knew
but so far I have always been on Pam’s good side and I would rather not be on her bad side.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I think it is smart to be on a woman's good side whenever possible
(cue a sex joke from someone)
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
But her bad side IS her good side.
;-)
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
Well, it's good to know it's a spring like any other
We’ve already got the injuries— now we just need some stupid decisions based on small sample sizes and we’ll be good to go!
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
(By the way, have I mentioned how much I hate spring training?)
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
what do you think about Marti?
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
10% positive, 90% no clue
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Kouzmanoff is one of our best hitter
Cut Matsui. He sucks!
Naah, he's just a little rusty.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
From Jane Lee
According to #Athletics release, Andrew Bailey diagnosed with strained right forearm.
Statement says Bailey “experienced no swelling and can resume throwing when asymptomatic.”
Bring back Hammer.
I remain suspicious
This seems like too good news compared to how Bailey reacted on the field yesterday
buster olney was retweeting stuff from former players
who were saying ripping the scar tissue or whatever felt the same as when the first injury occurred.
Winning!
He went to the right guy, at least
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 3:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I would be too, but
1) i’ve ripped scar tissue on a few ligament tears before. hurts really bad but feels a lot better in a couple days
2) I trust dr. a
Is it spring yet?
by eastcoasta'sfan on Mar 16, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
these anecdotes make me feel better
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
cautiously optimistic?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
had to look up asymptomatic
http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=asymptomatic&FORM=DTPDIA
ADJECTIVE
1. without obvious symptoms: not showing or producing indications of a disease or other medical condition
“The surgery was successful, and she has remained asymptomatic ever since.”
a·symp·to·mat·i·cal·ly ADVERB
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Of course, going by the quote she might have died.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
heh, well you deserve a pat on the back for the optimism
But I bet he’ll be shut down for at least 2 weeks, probably 3 or more.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I will remain pessimistic until I see Bailey throw another pitch from a mound without grabbing his elbow.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
.
@BrettAnderson49 Back… 2 minutes ago via web
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
ha, I saw that too
I’m expecting some typically boring tweets soon.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2011 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
So now his f-ing *back* hurts?
W.A.G.D.
"As the tag line of my favorite dirty joke would have it: 'Keep your hat on. We could wind up miles from here.'" ~Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus
I think he's saying,
“What a relief that this thread about Bailey maybe being badly hurt is less relevant today than it was yesterday.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah pretty much
Having a thread about an injury that did not actually happen = pointless. Why don’t we make this same thread for Gio? They’re both equally headed for TJ surgery!
Well, you don't just delete an entire post because you happen to find out later in the day...
…that things aren’t as bad as they first seemed. There was still a discussion to be had at the time. It’s great the news on Bailey isn’t as bad as first feared. In fact, it’s probably as good as it could be considering the circumstances, but updating the post with the news is better than just tossing it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
the dude complains about wasted threads and too much meta, but that doesn't stop him from making this useless post and creating more meta
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
by stm72 on Mar 16, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is an a and b conversation, why don't you c your way out of it
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
you didn't see the news on monday?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
I just had to laugh
Yeah yeah I know the news was rather sad
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 17, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Extra ironic given the person who posted it
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
dude, just let it go
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Right, but your post asks a question that we all know the answer to now.
Hint: Don’t be so sensitive.
It had a point when we thought Bailey was heading for TJ, he’s not, and was given the all clear, so your question “Now what?” is pretty pointless. Why do you take offense? My point of WHEW is more important than saying this thread topic is moot. Now what? Now we have Bailey as our closer for most of the year? Knew that last week. After the topic was discussed ad nauseum in the other threads this looks like a “placeholder” thread for a topic that isnt a topic anymore. No idea why you’d get riled up by it, I didn’t mean it to be disrespectful. Why can’t everyone be happy we dodged a bullet instead of making it meta?
People are happy it seems less serious now
But it seems rude to call Dan’s post “pointless”, especially when you are blaming him for making a post with a title that made sense when he posted it. Should I go and comment on all the posts about trying to bring Beltre to the A’s just to say “jeez, pointless posts now, we already know the answer”?
In summary, no one is upset about you being happy that Bailey is okay. People are upset that you make pointlessly rude remarks.
by el generico on Mar 16, 2011 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
I suppose it seemed possible to me
that PL78 didn’t understand what it was that had bothered people, and so I was trying to clarify. I assume that people are saying things in good faith in less given good reason not to, and in this case it seemed reasonable to me.
Honestly I'd prefer it if we deleted all the irrelevant threads
This game moves fast and things change, but there are quite a few jerks who like to eschew time and and place and circumstance and call people out for things they said when the scenery was different. Ive seen it happen quite a few times and not to me. Its maybe the worst thing about this site….but whatever I love the A’s, we all love them, and we all are happy Andrew Bailey will hopefully see a lot of 9th innings so lets move on.
i know the worst thing about this site. but i can't share it with you.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Please do!
Its gotta be META shit, right? Like when other posters call each other out for their OPINIONS????
LOL
if i shared my thought, i'd get a flag. it would be totally worth it, but better to keep it to myself.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Easy there! You need to get rid of that pinched nerve.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
unless you have an 0-2 count then I say rip away
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Deleting threads isn't a good idea cause a lot of information can be found there.
I have links bookmarked to some statistical things, and I don’t think they all come from meaningful threads.
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
by travdog6 on Mar 17, 2011 2:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd prefer we didn't delete threads very often
I like to be able to go back and check on conversations from the past, or see where they went after I wasn’t able to follow any longer. Maybe this sounds “Iglew”-y, but I think it’s a semantics issue. If you had said “I’m really glad that this title no longer applies to the situation”, I think plenty of people would have agreed. But you had to use pointless, which is a pejorative term.
I agree that we all love the A’s and I am glad that’s something that can bring us together. Let’s go Oakland!
Hint: Don't be so sensitive.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
I get trolled more by the AN kissass brigade than Ive ever trolled on this site.
Because I question certain posters Im a troll? Yeah right man, thats whats happening: I troll my fave teams site that I spend many hours thinking about. Totally. Sheesh….
Ive only ever trolled once on this site, and I acknowledge that (“This belongs on HH”) if I wasnt feeling like a jerk that day I probably wouldnt have written it, but guess what? I still believe going through the financials of our opposition and not mentioning what it means to the A’s isn’t something that belongs here. Nowdays I wouldnt say anything, but I’d still think it.
Just because you disagree with what I say does not make a troll.
i don't doubt your team loyalty or that you spend time thinking about the a's. what i question is the way you interact with others on this site.
for a guy that claims to get attacked a lot, i would think that you’d do a better job of being absolutely clear on what you mean. rather than saying…
Yay for pointless threads!
which to me is totally unnecessary. but whatever. some live and learn. some troll.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Dude, I've defended you in the past publicly and privately
When even I think you’re trolling, you’re probably trolling.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Can we ban him already? pretty please?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We can hope
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Mar 16, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
the blogfather thinks he's a troll and he's gotten into verbal tiffs with a moderator. i agree with dfa
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
by stm72 on Mar 16, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who are you to act like youre someone to make that call?
Ive never written anything in anger and Ive always believed in what Ive said, and have changed my opinions on things when presented with convincing arguments otherwise. Trolling? Never.
If youve never written in anger then why did you say this
Ive only ever trolled once on this site, and I acknowledge that ("This belongs on HH") if I wasnt feeling like a jerk that day I probably wouldnt have written it
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I never have felt like punching someone off what theyve said
I think being a smarmy jerk is different to that.
Apology accepted then??? lol
Wait, so
when you post early pseudo-news which turns out to be bunk, and people call you on it, it’s a crime against humanity. Oh, and we can’t possibly correct the misstatement, no no.
But when someone else posts early pseudo-news which turns out to be— well, not bunk, because he is injured, but not quite as bad as made out to be— and then corrects it with more information, it’s “pointless.”
I can’t tell if you’re actively hypocritical or just have no self-awareness of any kind.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
by PaulThomas on Mar 16, 2011 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
No, its the same
My news was that we won the rights to Iwakuma, and we did. It was never bunk. I wont change my mind on it, but I wont argue it either other than repeating it,
But yeah I agree a large amount of threads end up pointless, thats why they end up dying natural deaths. This one died a severely quick one.
And can we put a capper on rec’s because its so clear the same 4 or 5 people just rec any post that goes against what im saying, its the vocal minority over the silent majority. I’d rather do away with rec’s altogether its so corny.
Is jackson still on the team?
there are only hours left
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
McCarthy wraps up the #5 spot.
Unless he implodes these last 2 weeks.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
He's looking great
If he finally has his breakout year that might end up being the cherry on top that leads to a playoff run.
I think you're right.
So much for Urban’s prediction that Outman had it wrapped. I can live with this result.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Jane Lee said the same thing on Athletics After Dark
That she thought Outman had it. This was what like four days ago? I don’t get it. Have they not watched him pitch (though in fairness didn’t Urban say it prior to his actually throwing? or has he since [likely] repeated it?)
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
That's what she gets for hanging around Urb too much
If McCarthy can turn in yesterday’s performance in 80% of the time during the season, we are set.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Urban is horrible
I heard him on the radio describing Choice. He said he was a switch hitter with blazing speed but doesn’t project to hit for power. I don’t think he knows who Choice is.
During a contract holdout with Oakland in the early 1990s, Henderson said, "If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego."
by Man Bear Pig on Mar 16, 2011 11:28 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
did he really?
yeah, that’s no good. Maybe he should quit talking about the A’s
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Doesn't it piss you guys off?
Like I would murder to have those jobs and while everyone has their out there opinions, like there is my opinion and then there is what I assume is going to happen… Why can’t we be doing this stuff!?
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
You have to give up your other job
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 17, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
He's good if he pays attention
But now he is pretty much 90% occupied with the Giants so it’s kind of annoying. I actually didn’t mind him much as the MLB beat writer, he had a great relationship with the players, good at getting quotes etc.
He’s not an analyst though, and probably shouldn’t play one.
by Billy Frijoles on Mar 17, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Good thing Beane upgraded the bullpen when he did!
Beane seems to have a sixth sense for things like this. I thought Beane was nutz strengthening a bullpen that was already strong. Even if Bailey starts at the Rivercats, it’s a short 90 mile drive to OakTown. I am sure there will be at least one more injury in the bullpen before the season ends. This is the Oakland A’s we are talking about right? They bring in free agents cheap who are coming off of surgeries that they think will pan out. Players other teams shy away from or at least wont commit fully to. Beane on the other hand throws these guys a lifeline. If they succeed Beane is a GENIUS. If he fails, well it’s not like he didnt try. Wolfe spent as much money as he ever has this offseason. We have to hope that the offensive firepower acquired is enough to win those 1-2 run games that we lost so many of last season. Bailey is special, but with Fuentes and a Joey Devine that I think a lot of people have given up on (he can be special when he is on), the A’s bullpen is still deep and strong. Our starters should give the pen plenty of innings off. We have statistically the best starting pitching in the league ERA wise. Not many teams pitch better than the rotation that Oakland has amassed. I am not worried in the least about Bailey, but I wish him a speedy recovery because in the dog days of summer is when Bailey pitches his BEST. That will be a big boost when he comes back off the DL if he even spends any time thereat all.
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Beane's "upgrading" of the bullpen did nothing to help this situation
Andrew Bailey is still much better than Brian Fuentes and Grant Balfour. Losing him is still bad. Grant Balfour and Brian Fuentes are still not much better than the guys who’d be replacing them from AAA. Having them is still of little use.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
That's going a bit far. I didn't particularly want Fuentes either, and Balfour is overpriced, but
he is better than, say Jerry Blevins or somebody. Fautino is awesome of course.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 3:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Disliking the signings is not the same as spouting hyperbole
Andrew Bailey is still much better than Brian Fuentes and Grant Balfour. Losing him is still bad. Grant Balfour and Brian Fuentes are still not much better than the guys who’d be replacing them from AAA.
I doubt many people believe this, as it’s wholly unsupportable by fact.
Balfour has been one of the ~20 best relievers in baseball over the past three years. ZIPS projects him to have the 13th best ERA of any reliever in baseball in 2011, and the 4th best ERA among AL relievers. PECOTA projects him to have the 18th best ERA of any reliever in baseball, 8th best in the AL. Both systems project him to be better than Bailey. The difference between Bailey and Balfour is far smaller than the difference between Balfour and “the guy from AAA who’d be replacing him.”
Grant Balfour is a very good reliever. We can argue about whether he’s overpaid, or whether he’s signed for too long. But when Paul says that he’s a “near-worthless, generic bullpen arm” and “of little use,” he’s not presenting any sort of serious analysis. It’s just nonsense hyperbole that poisons actual baseball discussions.
by Danny on Mar 17, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Plus Bailey has had injury issues,
which is a factor conveniently brought up to diss Anderson, Braden, and McCarthy, but suddenly isn’t relevant to the bullpen?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Virtually everyone on this team has injury issues
With the arguable exception of catcher and first baseman, there is no position (including every single one of the projected starting five) at which the A’s starter has not had a DL stint in the past two seasons. Unless someone wanted the A’s to sign Adam LaRoche or Miguel Olivo (in which case, yeah, I’d say spending it on relievers was a better investment), that rejoinder is of little relevance.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Actually, catcher is not arguable
First base is arguable because Barton had a DL stint but I don’t think he was the starter at the time, and it wasn’t baseball-related.
Either way, outside of those two spots, you’re looking at guys with significant injury history.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Honestly -- and I don't mean this rudely, just honestly --
I think your increasing obsessive need to be negative about the A’s has clouded your objectivity.
I look at this team, and organization, and see a team that has a lot for fans to be excited about in 2011, and plenty of decent talent at various stages along the way in the minors: From Choice, whom every scout is raving about, to the still promising Green, Weeks, and Ross, to the “not now but eventually” intrigues of V. De La Cruz, Y. Cabrera, and M. Ynoa, and so on.
The A’s have, now and for the next few years, the single most important component of a team, and one so many teams long for: Starting pitching. If you don’t think Cahill, Anderson, Gio, and Braden are a special group, then so be it. But if you do, you can see the glass as legitimately very half full overall.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think when looking at "has injury issues"
You can make the argument nearly every team and every player meets this. Everyone has injury issues the second an inside pitch hits their hand breaking a bone. Do we have some guys who are more injury prone, or more likely to succumb to injuries in the future? Sure, but I just don’t think you can go into a season every year saying, hey all these guys are bound to get injured so its a write-off. We have a good deal of depth, better than a lot of teams, in some places I’d prefer more, but you know, I am excited and looking forward to this year, because for all the guys who miss good chunks of the year due to injuries there are lots of guys who’ll be there 140+ games and I am excited about what they have to offer! GO A’S!
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
... obviously I do not agree with those projections
This is hardly an inconsistent position. ZiPS in particular seems to have fundamental methodological problems in dealing with certain (especially young) pitchers. I don’t pay BPro to get PECOTA so I can’t say much about it.
Calling Balfour near-worthless was definitely irritated hyperbole— I think he’s fine (but overcosted), though nowhere near as good as those projections pass him off as being; at least he is (unlike Fuentes if the A’s are loony enough to give him the closer role) not likely to cause the team to start losing ballgames— but when you opt to provoke meta-discussion by importing that hyperbole onto a different thread, the one “poison[ing] actual baseball discussions” is you.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I don't have to import hyperbole; you provide it fresh daily
Even if you reject projection systems (and once you’ve rejected both projections and scouting reports, you’re pretty much just going with your gut), you can see how good Balfour is by just looking at his actual performance over the past few years. From 2008-2010, he’s among the top 20 relievers in MLB in both FIP (2.94) and tRA (2.99).
Balfour is quite obviously a very good reliever. He’s far better than whoever would replace him from AAA. He’s not “of little use.” He’d be a significant upgrade to any bullpen in baseball, no scare quotes necessary. What’s the point of repeatedly resorting to hyperbolic bloviating?
by Danny on Mar 17, 2011 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Balfour
CAN be good. He has had very good years and very bad years. If we have a good year, then he is one of the better set up guys in the game. What I like about him is he is aggressive. He doesn’t appear to be afraid of hitters (while I am a heavily leaning stathead, I do think psychology and makeup is a big indicator of success, particularly with relief pitchers). I hope Balfour will have a good year and think he will he definetly has talent. All relievers are overpriced to a degree this year though
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
PT, Sometimes I am not sure if you are AN's contrarian version of Christopher Hitchen.....
Or if you choosing to be a contrarian for contrarian’s sake. I haven’t felt this emotional reaction with reading your comments since your OPD statements a couple of years ago. I remember the initial visceral reaction to your OPD statement had me convinced that you were: constantly looking for an angle. That angle: to be contrarian, sometimes simply for the sake of being a contrarian.
that is a little much
I’ll ignore the OPD stuff as you should too. But Paul’s opinion of the Balfour and Fuentes signings seem to be in line with many of the posters here, so I fail to see how its “contrarian”
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Worst part of being labeled a contrarian:
You can’t deny it without contradicting the opposing viewpoint, which is something that a contrarian would do.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Let's give credit
To Lew Wolfe for funding a bullpen and to Beane for making it happen. Breslow, Balfour, Fuentes, maybe even Wuertz and Ziegler are decent closers. This is the least of our problems.
Hey dad, I got this guy's autograph, Rollie
Fingers. Who's he?
Your right incompetely spending the money was sooo much better than actually upgrading like the 5th starter etc.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
did you mean incompetently spending the money (i.e. fuentes was too expensive for what he'll give us)?
i was a proponent of adding bullpen depth because i didn’t trust devine or harden to be contributors in the bullpen. i was nervous about wuertz and breslow – for different reasons – but both health related. but i didn’t want fuentes at all, never mind his contract.
fortuitous or not, mccarthy looks solid as a 5th starter with outman and ross as candidates for injury replacements. even cramer and moscoso could do well in a pinch.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I'm not sure where people get the idea that the "5th starter" doesn't have to be good.
If McCarthy isn’t good enough to be the “3rd starter”, I don’t see why he’s good enough to be the “5th starter”. They start the same number of games. I still think the best way to add 2-4 Wins to the team is to add a 2 or 4 Win starter.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
it's a fair point. my point is that most teams would kill to have outman, ross, cramer and mccarthy competing for their 5th spot.
the giants are trying out suppan for gosh sakes.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
what teams that are suppose to be in contention?
Outman is a TJS recovering pitcher who wasn’t THAT highly thought of to start out with. Cramer is a journeyman who was out of baseball two years ago and has never had a legitimate string of MLB starting experience. McCarthy is a failed prospect. Ross lacks a third pitch. Lets be realistic. Were going to need to get 2 starters out of that… not good.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, the Giants started Bumgarner and Wellemeyer for 30 games last year
That combination is far from horrible (well, at least Bum is), but isn’t lighting up the world either. That’s what your 5th starter is likely to be. Yes, ideally, they’re better, but it’s not as if there are tons of available starters right now.
Saying that one of Braden, Gio, BA, or Cahill is going to be injured is fine, but that’s a separate issue. If two of those dudes miss significant time, we’re probably boned anyway and our 5th starter doesn’t matter.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Bumgarner had a 3.66 FIP and was a top 50 prospect. You don't know what you are talking about
That is hundreds of miles better than the filler chaff we have competing for our 5th spot.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Though I'd add that his ceiling is likely not as a 5th starter
That’s just where he ended up last year because he was new, and that’s where he may start this year. Bumgarner looks good enough to be at least a 3rd starter to me.
None of the people the A’s are looking at for the 5th starter are likely to go past a 4th starter at best, I don’t think.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
didn't he say Bumgardner was far from horrible?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Apparently they disagree about how many miles.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
maybe this is a dumb question...but
would you rather have: lincecum, cain, bumgarner, zito and whoever plus no depth or…
anderson, cahill, gonzalez, braden, mccarthy and ross/cramer/etc… as back ups?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Giants by 100 miles
not only is the Giants starting 5 better than the A’s, they are far far more healthy and I really don’t think that cramer et al is that much better than Jeff Supan
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes I do
18 starts from Bum, and 11 from Wellemeyer. He was a little less than 2/3 of a 5th starter. And those 11 starts from Wellemeyer were 6.23 FIP terrible.
My point was that they had one good 5th starter, and a non-trivial amount of crap from a terrible 5th starter. The 5-headed 5th starter we will have probably isn’t a whole lot worse.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
They had the option of Bum the entire time. They made a poor decision
also I was talking about going forward not last year.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll be ecstatic if our 5-headed guys can come close to Bum
Going forward, sure, Bum is way better. But, they won it all last year with him and Wellemeyer, and they weren’t the 2006 Cards. Clearly, you can be competitive with some level of flotsam and jetsam in your rotation.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Every single one of their rotations spots is/was better than ours. Thats why they could do it
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
The flotsam/jetsam metaphor makes me happy.
More specifically, it makes me happy imagining how to apply the metaphor to distinguish flotsam from jetsam.
I’d say all of our fifth starter candidates are flotsam, though we have plenty of jetsam elsewhere on the roster.
Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.
The spellings are different.
Just ask MO.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
They may be trying out Suppan, but their Top 5 are set without Suppan.
Ross is the only guy among the A’s 5 that I see having much chance at being above 1 WAR and healthy, and even he’s a health risk long term. The rest of those guys are either injured or replacement level.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of Ross
I’m actually quite interested in seeing his “new” mechanics.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Me too, but I heard they were only slightly less painful to watch than the old ones
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
The 5th starter can be skipped numerous times
and during the final month the fifth starter may be scrapped altogether. CC Sabathia pitched on three days rest and whatnot. McCarthy is a good starter, and he will probably have 2-4 more wins than our 5th starter spot had last year.
by Rygoslinglover on Mar 16, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
This is true on a team with Sabathia and 4 healthy starters but not the A's
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Anderson needs 5 days rest, not 4 unfortunately
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
McCarthy is a gascan waiting to happen. ST numbers or not
Im all for upgrading the bullpen but the way they did it sucked and there were plenty of internal and waiver wire type pick ups available.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm not saying that he's gio or brett. but he's better than the chaff we've used as the 5th guy or injury replacements in the past.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
why do you say that hes better than the Kurt Sarloos' of the world?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm not saying he's better than kirk saarloos. is he better than mark redman, edgar gonzalez, clayton mortensen, brett tomko, dana eveland, dan giese, sean gallagher, chad gaudin, lenny dinardo, need i mention more garbage?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I agree.
I am not necessarily looking for a longterm, A+ pitcher for my 5th slot, though it would be nice. Rather, I’m looking to catch lightening in a bottle. Most 5th starters are 1-year wonders, not people you spend money on to build a team around. You just go with this year’s hot hand. His past doesn’t matter, nor does his future.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
i wanna know how we missed out on the dan haren trade. he'd fit fine in this rotation.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
we'll never know, since the slegnA supressed the video footage of Reagins and Byrnes
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
it's not that i disagree with dfa, it's just that i like mccarthy more than the bozos we've rolled out in the past.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
(I do too)
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
If you re-read my first sentence, you will see that Gio falls in that category.
Also, based on his 2009 performance, few people gave him more than a 50/50 chance of success in the majors. If Trevor had not been injured, Gio would have started the year in Sac, Again, he had an outlier season, and the fact that he is under team control is a bonus. My point is that we don’t have to have a King Felix in the #5 slot. All we need is for one of our 5-8 perform above average. Heck, 15 years ago, teams were laughed at for even considering a fifth starter. Most of the time, the fifth starter was just the long man coming out of the ’pen for emergency starts.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
The fact that most teams don't have 5 good starters doesn't mean
that it’s not good to have 5 good starters, and that it’s not more beneficial to upgrade your 5th starter from 0 to 2 WAR than it is to upgrade your middle relievers from 0.5 to 1 WAR
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 17, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
But that upgrade is hard to come by
You can either get lucky and your projected chaff turns out to be above-average when compared to other dudes of his ilk, or you can “upgrade” your 5th starter indirectly by acquiring guys who slot higher in the rotation and keep the chaff in the minors or in the bullpen.
In either case, it’s probably not something we can do now. I was in favor of finding a way to get Blanton, but that opportunity passed (plus, we would have to give something up). The remaining guys that could be available probably aren’t much better than our current chaff, which may not be that bad.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Mar 17, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Good 5th starters are rare, because if they were really good, they would be 4th or higher.
.Because of their rarity, to get one involves one of three conditions.
1) The team buys the best they can get and puts him in the 5 slot.
2) The team uses one of their up and coming pitchers( who would otherwise be developing their skills in AAA), thus possibly wasting his development years.
3) Pick up a free agent with a questionable record with +prospects, who may have an outlier year.
I don’t believe the A’s should spend their limited resourses to buy a #5. I also believe BB is making the correct choice in not wasting an inhouse starter this year. I don’t think Ross, or any of the others in Sac are on par with Gio. What remains is option 3. I think this was our best choice at this time. If we win the division this year, hold onto our core, and find that an upgrade at #5 is warranted AND availible, then yes, spend the money. But not now.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
[insert repetitive comment about how "hot hands" do not actually exist here]
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I agree with this.
That doesn’t stop you from trying to find someone to outperform their expectations, such as Tomko did.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
He really isn't though
Career FIP
Mark Redman 4.41 > McCarthy 4.94
Chad Guadin 4.68 > McCarthy 4.94
Lenny DiNardo 4.91 > McCarthy 4.94
McCarthy 4.94 > Giese 5.01
Eveland 4.49 > McCarthy 4.94
McCarthy 4.94 > Mortenson 5.01 (though Marcel projects them the same this year)
McCarthy 4.94 > Gallagher 4.99 (this was hurt by post injury time it was 4.48 when he was with the A’s)
Tomko 4.59 > McCarthy 4.94
McCarthy 4.94 > Edgar Gonzalez 5.32 (but a much better 4.29 with the A’s)
Id rather have Eveland as our 5th than McCarthy for sure.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
for sure, even though Eveland walks a batter and a quarter more per nine?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Ok thats a little hyperbol.
I think theyre pretty equivalent pitchers.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Career marks don't count when he
A, has been pitching while injured a lot, which drags down his numbers, and B, has tinkered with his arsenal and swapped out his four-seam for a sinker. And considering he threw his four-seam 50-60% of the time, that’s a big big change.
so were most of the people that are on the list
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
i respect your view...i am taking a wait and see attitude on this one
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
that is fine im just tired of the smart people around here pretending that the A's rotation is even close to being set and good
Especially with the health concerns of Anderson Braden McCarthy Ross Harden and Outman
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Im worried that the entire team is going to suck but that isn't really a new thing
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Really I thought I needed to be a little more vocal about it to get my point across.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, but my point is that the more injuries these pitchers play through,
the more uncertain the stats become. If you were going to make a decision and wanted to weigh (just for example) stats 80% and scouts 20%, for these guys you’d change that to 60/40 or more. And at this point, I’m willing to trust Billy’s scouts.
Are you saying his entire career of not being very good should be discounted?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure but that doesn't take AAAer to good big league starter IMO
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
i don't think anybody is disputing that. it's more that our 5-8 are better than most teams' 5-8.
which is not unimportant given health
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I really don't think thats accurate. I think that most contenders 5-8 are equal or better
especially when you consider use my better farm system to acquire a legitimate starter as one of those options
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course.
I don’t think he’s gonna be good. I think he has a decent shot at being an above average fifth starter.
Especially considering our defense.
I think he can put up a good surface line. ERA, that kind of stuff.
I think McCarthy will have a career year
Our defense and ballpark make pitchers better. Eveland is nowhere close to McCarthy in terms of skill, and, like what Dan said, McCarthy has been hurt a lot so his career numbers are too small of a sample size to make any judgments about his inability to pitch.
by Rygoslinglover on Mar 16, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
If Eveland has pitched better than McCarthy
in the past and McCarthy is always injured, what’s to recommend McCarthy?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Who cares if he has a career year if its all the defense
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
It still helps the team.
Dude, fucking chill. Jesus.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
It doesn't really though, thats my point
Any pitcher would experience that defensive benefit, whether its Tomko, Eveland, or McCarthy. It has nothing to do with that players contribution to the teams.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Except he's a sinkerball pitcher now
which does help the team since it plays to the defense
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Exactly
Wasn’t Eveland, when he actually recorded an out, more of a flyball out kind of pitcher? I assume that BB signed McCarthy knowing that his pitching style meshes nicely with our strong infield defense. Your pessimissim is a bit premature IMO.
by Rygoslinglover on Mar 16, 2011 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Eveland was a sinkerballer
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 17, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
He isn't really that much of one now, plus he cant k anyone
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
If he's throwing it instead of his 4seam, he is.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
he wasn't in winter ball
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
so, in 23 innings
he k’d 11 and walked 3?
He is a failure?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
no but a < 4.5 k/9 against a lot of AAAA guys is
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 17, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I could be mistaken... do you have a link?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 17, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
This barely matters
The difference between a. a sinkerball pitcher on a team with a good infield defense, and an average outfield defense, and b. a sinkerball pitcher on a team with a good outfield defense, and an average infield defense, can be measured in fractions of a win per season.
It’s like the equivalent of batting Pujols third instead of fourth. Maybe it hurts/helps a tiny bit, but the odds of it impacting the playoff chase are minuscule.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Thats double counting.
You cant give credit to the position players for the defense and give it to the pitching at the same time
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
I think that having a better defense will give McCarthy more confidence and probably make him a little more relaxed. Because of those factors, I expect McCarthy to pitch better than he ever has before because he will be more comfortable and people said that he was never very comfortable with the White Sox and he tried to do too much. McCarthy will make better pitching decisions because he won’t try to overcompensate. Most great pitchers need a good defense to back them up, but if McCarthy has a good year it will not solely be becuase of the defense but they will certainly help. I am not sure why you see that as a negative thing
by Rygoslinglover on Mar 16, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if he was never comfortable with the White Sox OR the Rangers, what makes you think that the A's are the answer?
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
badass defense?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Precisely
plus he is a little bit older. A little bit wiser.
by Rygoslinglover on Mar 16, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Are they really going to have one this year?
the INF defense is probably going to be around plus 20 most of which isn’t going to be on his watch
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions
wtf?
they defense isn’t going to try as hard when he pitches?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
No Im saying that he isn't going to pitch that much of the A's innings
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 17, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do you allow Colby Lewis to be bad and then good,
but not McCarthy? Because Lewis “proved” himself with two good years at AAAA? Both were well regarded prospects who didn’t work out, reinvented themselves and are trying to do, older, what they were supposed to do younger.
I’m not suggesting McCarthy will thrive as much as Lewis has, but there’s no reason to think he couldn’t be good. Note that in 23 IP Fall League innings, plus 13 IP in Spring Training, he has walked exactly 3.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Two years with good MLE is something
McCarthy has never done. Damn right it’s a million times more relevant than McCarthy’s fall or spring or whatever other games that don’t count.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 17, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would you assume that more confidence and more relaxation would make him pitch better?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Human psychology
people and students tend to perform better in environments that they feel comfortable in.
by Rygoslinglover on Mar 17, 2011 4:19 AM PDT up reply actions
So, you're citing generic conclusions about "human psychology"
to account for performance in baseball by elite athletes?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Why not?
Athletes are still human even if we sometimes treat them as if they are otherworldy creatures. Aspects of pressure and comfort are probably more relevant to elite athletes than they are to “regular” workers.
by Rygoslinglover on Mar 18, 2011 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Why not?
I don’t mean this in a rude way. This is a team game, so why can’t the fact that the defense compliments the pitching count for both?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Shouldn't we also compare FIP by rotation position, as well?
I was reading somewhere that the NL FIP for #5 starters was around 5.94. This would put McCarthy’s closer to a #4?
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
no because he is likely to be our third starter by mid season
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
That isn't the question at this point.
At the start of the season, he will be our #5. The collapse of the rest of the staff is purely speculation on your part. I feel we must compare him to others in the same spot.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Because it doesn't really.
Basically, an outstanding defense makes any pitcher better. There isn’t really any evidence that suggests that McCarthy is the type of pitcher that would particularly benefit from the defense. Furthermore, looking at his winterball stats doesn’t suggest that he has a viable k rate with his new repitoire
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
However, the park does make a difference.
In the definition of FIP that I saw, it doesn’t acount for park factors. Since the foulball area, as well as the difficulty of hitting HRs in Oakland helps pitchers, FIP seems to have a fault in this case.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Forget the defense and park
The defense and park will make his numbers better, but that’s not the point as it will make everyone’s better.
The point is whether he will pitch effectively enough that the defense and park have a fighting chance to take decent numbers and make them better, rather than taking lousy numbers and making them less lousy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
hehe, You are better with words than I am, Nico.
This is what I was trying to say.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
The second sentence contradicts the first
There isn’t really any evidence that suggests that McCarthy is the type of pitcher that would particularly benefit from the defense. Furthermore, looking at his winterball stats doesn’t suggest that he has a viable k rate with his new repitoire
Which is the lightening in a bottle theory.
We just have to find one of these guys to have an outlier year. Sort of like Cory Lidle, Storm Davis, etc. He doesn’t have to anchor the staff. He just has to keep us in every fifth game.
Non-stat guy: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Non-stat guy: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.
Actually, that sinker switch is pretty interesting.
He’s been a very heavy flyball guy thus far, but so far this spring, he’s gotten 18 ground outs to 11 air outs.
its also spring.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
true
but 9 ks no bbs.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
and pitchers are always way ahead of batters
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
So then Coco Crisp is going to win the MVP
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
of the penal league softball team? yes
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
they play baseball in san quentin
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Pitchers are ahead of hitters
Crisp is hitting .500
Fuck dude, leave again for a couple weeks and come back without a stick up your ass.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
dude it was a joke...
there are always going to be outliers.
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
True.
I’m not drawing concrete conclusions from that or anything. But GB rates tend to stabilize very quickly (not 19 batters faced quickly, obviously, but relatively quickly compared to other stats). And considering that he added a sinker and has historically been a top-20 heaviest flyball kind of guy, it’s interesting.
it is but he also didn't pitch very well in winterball despite the change
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Try using projections, which include minor league stats
ZIPS: 4.44 ERA, 93 ERA+
PECOTA: 4.08 ERA
CAIRO: 4.46 ERA
The average ERA+ for a starting pitcher is 95, which means McCarthy projects to be pretty close to league average. Health is a far, far greater concern than performance.
How much stock do you put in CAIRO? or OLIVER?
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 16, 2011 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Not much
The 2010 results I’ve seen put them a clear step behind PECOTA and ZIPS.
and I don't trust ZIPS for pitchers
You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend
by designatedforassignment on Mar 16, 2011 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
what are these options?
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Great news about Bailey.
I’m glad to hear it wasn’t anything terribly serious.
LIVE EDT
Tape-delayed for the West Coast
good news on bailey
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot," or "Gambit"
Yay Andrew!
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Mar 17, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
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