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The A's Farm System: Plenty of Room for Improvement

First and foremost, I'd like to introduce myself, Dave Gershman, the newest Athletics Nation columnist. I'd like to personally thank everyone for the warm welcome as well as the opportunity to contribute to Athletics Nation, blog of one of the most exciting and underrated teams in baseball. Due to the fact that I live in New York, I rarely get the chance to see my beloved A's play, but I relish the opportunity whenever they come to New York.

As you may or may not have heard, experts were not so fond of the A's farm system after the 2010 season. Despite strong showings from multiple prospects, expectations were not met as much as writers and scouts could have wanted them to. Well, there are many reasons to believe that things will not only change in 2011, but greatly improve.

Star-divide

As I said previously, the Baseball America and John Sickels were quick to downplay possible the system entering the new year. Baseball America ranked the A's at 28, while Sickels agreed for the most part. Sickels had them at 24. This was largely in part to injuries to prospects such as Jemile Weeks and slow starts to the season by Chris Carter and Max Stassi, to name a couple. Not only that, but Grant Desme retiring prior to '10 didn't help things. The system also dealt with Michael Taylor's struggles. An argument can be made that the A's above average 2010 farm system ranking was in the top half due to the Michael Taylor acquisition, however, I'm sure many A's fans would quickly re-do that trade if given the chance.

Back to Weeks, the A's still believe in his ability to not only be an every day second baseman, but a very good one at that. Even at age 24, the 5'9 athletic Texas Leaguer has a lot to prove. His development has greatly been slowed due to injury, but on the field, he's certainly lived up to the expectation. In his 2 1/2 year minor league career, Jemile has amassed a .277/.360 line in 801 plate appearances. His injuries have not only put a hold on his major league career, but the A's future. This is just a microcosm of what the A's dealt with last year. The talent is there, but they had certain roadblocks throughout the journey. But not everything was a nightmare for the A's in 2010. Not at all.

There were many players who not only had breakout and healthy seasons, but are expected to do the same in the coming year as well. However, you could probably say the same about Carter and Taylor after the '09 season right? Wrong. The difference is, many of the guys who had breakout 2010 seasons, have tremendous upside, and plenty of time to fail and then get back up on their feet.

Rashun Dixon, Tyreace House, Ian Krol, and Jeremy Barfield are a few of those guys. Michael Choice, YordyCabrera, Chad Lewis, Aaron Shipman, and Jordan Tripp join that list as a group of 2010 draftees looking to make a major impact, whether that's at Vermont, Burlington, or even Stockton in Choice's case. Stephen Parker, Adrian Cardenas, and obviously Grant Green are two Athletics who are closer to the Majors, but like all prospects, are not sure things to say the least. In terms of pitchers,

Ian Krol is highly regarded by many. The lefty does walk many batters, but strikes out more than a batter per inning. (EDIT: I got confused with Krol's small high-A sample size. Krol actually had a very low walk rate. Thanks to CaliforniaJag for pointing this out) With a .273 2010 BABIP, Krol does miss bats, but needs to build on a strong year in order to improve, obviously. Two guys who I scouted in New Hampshire last year, I am very high on - Danny Farquahar and Trystan Magnuson. Aside from the fact that these two are two of the best guys you'll ever meet, both could easily compete for a final spot in the A's bullpen. If not, you'll definitely see them in '11 barring any setbacks. Magnuson features a 89-91 fastball with plus command. He also throws a very good curveball as well as a solid change. He doesn't strike out many batters, but is a pitcher and not a thrower. Reminds me a lot of Jon Rauch. Farquahar on the other hand has legitimate plus stuff. His fastball touches the mid-90's at times, but his slider is state of the art. His command is exceptionally good for a Double-A/Triple-A pitcher as well. (EDIT: he actually does not have that good command. Thanks to Californiajag for pointing that out. I got Farquahar mixed up with another similiar Fisher Cats pitcher. -Dave)

Keep in mind as well, the likes of Dixon, House, Choice, Weeks, and Cabrera are all big time athletes, Something that most other teams lack. These type of players are definitely more durable and usually have a bigger ceiling. The book on Choice is that if he isn't going to be a bust, he'll be a superstar. I personally agree. Hec, Chris Carter in Triple-A for another season can only mean more experience by getting extra at-bats. Talk about a potential superstar player.

But the whole point is simple. The A's have plenty of guys with more upside than you can imagine. By this time next year, we might be discussing the superstar potential of Michael Choice and the excellent speed of Tyreace House among others. Luckily, not every organization can improve as quick as the A's can. Of course, having one of the best GM's in the game certainly doesn't hurt.

All in all, out of every farm system ranked in the lower half by the so-called experts, look for the A's to improve the most, or close to it. When your organization gets plagued by injuries and what not, there's always room for improvement and rebound seasons.

There is hope Athletics fans. There is definitely hope.

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Fangraphs says Krol had a .294 BABIP in 2010

Other than that, I guess I agree. A lot of the guys in the low minors for the A’s are very, very toolsy, but are a good deal away. We obviously could regain our status as a good farm system if everyone had good years, but last year made me skeptical. The frustration is that, outside of Carter and Taylor, there isn’t a lot of hope for big impact this year; most of the guys (Cardenas, the aforementioned bullpen guys) have 3 WAR ceilings. While it would be great if the A’s uncorked 4 3 win players this year from the farm, it’ll be a while until we see anyone with superstar potential outside of Carter/Taylor.

Welcome to the team!

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 1, 2011 12:10 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for the welcome!

Re Krol: He had a .294 BABIP in High-A and I believe a .25(something) in Low-A Kane County. So it averaged to .273.

Really happy to be a part of AN

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 5:26 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not even convinced they're that toolsy

I read descriptions like that constantly from other systems. I don’t know if it’s the change from prior A’s drafts when the team focused on polished talent, or just desperate clutching at any faintly positive straw.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2011 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel like tools are something that are best evaluated by scouts

Hard to quantify upside on an 18 year old without looking at the kid and watching him play sports. Admittedly, you’re probably right that every system has that kid (or many of that kid) who has great raw ability but is light years away from a major league player.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 1, 2011 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

welcome Dr. David

Uh-oh, another seasoned baseball observer to further highlight just how little I am qualified to write about the sport. But this Lord Farquhar character was very highly thought of, I do know that… your old pals on Blue Jays Way seemed high on him before he got dealt for Rajai, anyway. I had the feeling when he came that we’ll be seeing him at some point after the inevitable spate of mysterious bullpen injuries takes its usual toll.

Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.

by emperor nobody on Feb 1, 2011 1:29 AM PST reply actions  

Whaddya talking about?

DM and the new guy have the statistical side nailed down.

Your job is to be our H.S. Thompson / William Burroughs kind of baseball writer, and you’re darn good at it.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 1, 2011 8:24 AM PST up reply actions  

after reading through this thread

I realize why it’s safer to just write stuff that makes it seem like I am indeed on 7 quarts of Angel Dust at any given time and avoid anything resembling an attempt at coherent baseball analysis like it’s a handshake in a leper colony, K.

AN can sometimes be like a cross between Times Square on New Year’s Eve and the Roman Colosseum just before they release the lions, damn.

Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.

by emperor nobody on Feb 2, 2011 3:08 AM PST up reply actions  

a cross between Times Square

on New Year’s Eve and the Roman Colosseum just before they release the lions>>>>>

Can you source that?

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 9:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Welcome Dave

Goldstein basically agreed with your assessment that the A’s have upside in the minors.

I could quibble with a whole bunch of things you wrote (Weeks is durable?), but we’ll save that for another post…or at least another comment.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 1:33 AM PST reply actions  

meaning

when he’s on the field, he doesn’t miss games, he plays hard the whole 9 innings, etc…

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 5:51 AM PST up reply actions  

That's generally not a definition of durable that people use

Weeks has “The Bug”, which doesn’t bode well for us.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon

by cuppingmaster on Feb 1, 2011 8:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Missing games while being on the field would be somewhat impressive.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 1, 2011 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

As do at least half the umpires.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

hi. [shyly kicks dirt]

I’m Bloom.

Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer

by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2011 3:13 AM PST reply actions  

I think you meant

…slyly kicks dirt

Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell

by fridaynightfan on Feb 1, 2011 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

A few thoughts

1. I think quite a bit of fate of the A’s farm (and future) lies with Taylor. If Taylor rebounds to the level he was prior to 2010, he will no longer be a top prospect because of his age and because he’ll be in the majors. But add a guy with high upside to replace the wave of OFers leaving after 2011 and the A’s future looks quite a bit brighter.

2. I’m not as big on Barfield, Tripp, Shipman, and House as you are. But even if you are not fond of those four, there is certainly room for optimism in the A’s farm.

3. I like Magnunson and Farquhar a reasonable amount for relief prospects, but god damn the A’s pen is loaded for a while. Fuentes, Balfour, Bailey, Ziggy, Breslow are all locks to be here past 2011 (unless there’s a trade). I figure Wuertz is gone and Devine is injured, but there’s still Blevins who will probably make it. Add to that FDLS as the A’s top relief prospect and Magnunson and Farquhar will really need to earn their way to the pen.

4. In any case, welcome to AN.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Feb 1, 2011 3:39 AM PST reply actions  

This.

Taylor needs to rebound. It wasn’t too long ago I was dreaming of Carter and Taylor in the heart of our order. I still believe/hope both will find their way there sooner or later.

by Beane is my hero on Feb 1, 2011 6:58 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Just an aside...

Have we ever seen “Beane is my hero” and the man, Billy Beane, in the same room together? Jus’ askin’, because I’m the suspicious type.

Another minor unrelated quibble: Dave Gershman lost me when he used the phrase “Due to the fact..” It may be something that flies over everyone else like a short fart launched in a gale, but I always dislike seeing that one…

Officially awaiting the 2011 MLB season

by One won lost won on Feb 1, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

With regard to

“due to the fact”, there is no consensus of opinion whether or not, in order to improve the content of the website’s front page, there is a necessity for utilizing additional editorial staff. We anticipate the possibility of revisiting this question again some time in the near future.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Feb 1, 2011 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell

by fridaynightfan on Feb 1, 2011 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

You lost me at With regard to

Has not the near future long ago come and gone..??

8^O

In my opinion, Athletics Nation continues to be the best site of all sites on the web!!

Officially awaiting the 2011 MLB season

by One won lost won on Feb 1, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess there are two ways of thinking about Taylor...

1) His track records suggests last year was a fluke and he’ll rebound nicely and could even end up in the bigs when Crisp, Jackson, and Sweeney get hurt.

2) His track record doesn’t mean as much as struggling mightily in a better league. Perhaps he cannot make the necessary adjustments to play at higher levels.

So much of what you think about the A’s future depends on which one of those 2 you believe.

by Brett Narloch on Feb 1, 2011 7:55 AM PST reply actions  

I'll go with option 3

His swing has changed and his bat speed is down. We’ve heard this from a few reports and it fits the stats.

His eye and his hitting ability appear to be unchanged. I think he can handle the league. He just hit for a lot less power (which may have hurt his batting average a little as well).

I recall when Morgan Ensberg had a brief return to relevence it was because a teammate had told him to swing harder… I think Taylor needs to do that.

by DrDoom on Feb 1, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I love how the Giants work with Brandon Belt's swing and he becomes the next apparent star,

while the A’s work with Michael Taylor’s swing and turn him from a hitting beast into Yuniesky Betancourt.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

no worries on farm system

  First the A’s have promoted and traded many prospects over the last few years to rebuild their major league team. The starting rotation is so deep and young that the A’s should not have many worries for a few years. As for the infield the 2 key areas of 2b and 3b have options that should be ready in the next 2 years. Outfield is thin but could rebound strongly on Taylor. Now that the A’s have expanded into the international market the team can fill all positions that are weak.

by Arcman on Feb 1, 2011 8:17 AM PST reply actions  

I tend to agree..

Of course health can always mess things up…

But the rotation and bullpen should be in tact for 4 or 5 more years. It’s the lineup that worries me a little.

But if Carter’s floor is 25 HRs and an OPS of .825, then he won’t be any worse than Cust.

If Taylor rebounds, which I believe he will, then he may be in line to take over when DeJesus leaves.

If one of Weeks, Cardenas, and Green become an everyday player at 2B or 3B, then that covers places where we’ll be thin after this year.

There are a lot of “ifs” there, but I’m not as down as many are on the future. We might not be looking at any 100 win seasons… but probably not many sub .500 seasons either.

by Brett Narloch on Feb 1, 2011 8:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Willingham will be the key

  Willingham is a much better hitter than most A’s fans know about him. He should hit around 270 and 25 homeruns. Which would be excellent for the A’s. If he stays healthy and produce the A’s will resign him or he could be a type A free agent. Which would net the A’s 2 draft picks. The same can be said for DeJesus who could restock the A’s with draft picks if he leaves. Health is the major factor.

by Arcman on Feb 1, 2011 8:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Looking over Willingham's career stats

He is remarkably consistant. Home, away, whatever. year after year he OPS’s in the .850 range. He only deviated a bit this last year when his OBP actually got better. If anyone can handle the switch to a new league and a pitcher’s park, it might be him.

Does anyone know if he has the arm strength for RF? He seems to be ticketed for LF, but so is Carter and apparently DDJ has god-like defense in LF. I doubt we resign Willingham if LF is his only option. It seems we will have no trouble finding a LF beyond this year, but I really wonder who our RF of the future is. Hopefully Taylor I guess…

by DrDoom on Feb 1, 2011 9:53 AM PST up reply actions  

I think RF arm strength is overrated...

… more about how you play D and position yourself. Willingham had 7 outfield assists last year, leaders in the AL = http://stats.mercurynews.com/mlb/getleaders.asp?rank=156 -

Granted arm strength can be a significant deterrent, so total assist #’s may be misleading, but I only noticed a few of rocket arms on that leader board – Seems like a healthy mix of range and arm strength…

by A's fan in Raleigh on Feb 1, 2011 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm more concerned with the general feeling that we are somehow going to get a full season from a guy who hasnt been healthy since 2007.

Explain to me why I should pencil Crisp in for more than half a season? He’s the CF version of Rich Harden. Both are made of glass and should not be counted on to be healthy.

Buy some class, act like you've been there before.

by PL78 on Feb 1, 2011 12:22 PM PST up reply actions  

My sense is the A's are planning to start the season with

Willingham in LF and DeJesus in RF.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 5:32 PM PST up reply actions  

True

i was thinking beyond 2011. I don’t see how we can logically resign Willingham if he can only play LF is all.

by DrDoom on Feb 2, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed Arcman

and Willingham has mentioned that the A’s and his camp have left talks open for a possible extension, which if all things fall in place, would be sweet. I really like the guy and am hoping for a big season out of him.

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Feb 1, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Extension of late-blooming injury prone slugger with old player skills?

Why does this sound like Scott Hatteberg 2.0?

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2011 2:41 PM PST up reply actions  

One good reason would be:

How many .850 OPS guys are out there right now that want to sign a contract to play for Oakland? Sometimes you grab ’em when you can.

I can totally see the logic for not re-signing him too. But I have to say (and here I’m straying from analysis into a little “neither here nor there” personal account), I really like the guy already. He seems to actually be appreciative to be in Oakland and has a good sense of humor — and a good bat. He has won me over so far.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, Paul

all I can say is that it’s my birthday and I’m dreaming the impossible dream, brother.

Cheers! :=)

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Feb 1, 2011 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see much similarity between Willingham and Hatteberg

Willingham strikes out a good amount and hits for power. Hatteberg rarely struck out and didn’t hit for power.

And Hatteberg didn’t even collapse. He was pretty much the same hitter after the extension (2003-2007) as he was before the extension.

by Danny on Feb 2, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd lay even money that compensatory draft picks are going the way of the dodo after this season

so don’t count on anything coming from that route.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

You can't assume that....

You can’t say “Screw it” to doing anything involving draft picks. Isn’t the CBA signed at the end of the season anyway? So wouldn’t it be more likely that anything that will change will do so the season/offseason after the signing?

by Furyan on Feb 1, 2011 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

The CBA terminates on December 11, 2011

Normally the end of a CBA also means the end of any arbitration procedures under that CBA. I think there’s an exception for procedures that started prior to the end of a CBA, which would cover the actual salary arbitration hearings that the teams agree to go to with their players, but there’s no reason I’m aware of, from a labor law standpoint, why that would be extended to the essentially unrelated issue of compensatory draft picks. If the new CBA contains no arrangement for draft-pick compensation, it can be gone as early as the 2012 draft (which is the pertinent one for Crisp/Willingham/DeJesus/friends).

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2011 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Are they more likely to can the whole thing

than try to restructure the compensatory pick system? It seems that the idea, in principle, is decent, but the way it is currently structured, is unreasonable.

by oakballnack on Feb 2, 2011 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Considering that neither side appears to actually be committed to it in any way,

I have no difficulty at all in seeing them junking it. The players don’t like it because it suppresses mid-level free agent salaries and the owners don’t like it because it gives the MLBPA a chance to meddle with the amateur draft. And it’s being openly laughed at with all these “no type A” contract clauses the last few years.

I think the only way it survives is if getting rid of it becomes some kind of political football in the negotiations and they eventually leave it where it is out of exasperation.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 9:36 PM PST up reply actions  

what about if the compensation

didn’t entail the signing team “loosing” a draft pick at all, just the other team gaining draft picks in compensatory “sandwich” rounds? That, and of course, a narrowing of the definitions for Type A and Type B free agents (especially, one would think, for RP’s.)

by oakballnack on Feb 3, 2011 9:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Why would the owners support that?

It doesn’t suppress salaries and it doesn’t increase competitive balance (really— check out who’s getting the comp picks this season…).

I think they have bigger fish to fry.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 3, 2011 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Single-A (short season)

Speaking of Burlington… how ‘bout those Lake Monsters?!? They’re just the new affiliate, but seriously, you had me at “lake monster.”

I’m also out in New York, Dave, and look forward to checking out the two three-game series they’re playing at both Brooklyn and Staten Island. For anyone else out East, those are two great looking small parks, and a good time for sure (~$12 tickets).

Also, the A’s are playing a series out at the new Citi Field as well as Yankee Stadium this year. Some good stuff to look forward to in a land overcast under the ubiquity of Yankee hats and the foggy air of haughty entitlement.

by GranolaNerd on Feb 1, 2011 8:21 AM PST reply actions  

Seeing the A's come through town is the best chance New Yorkers have to see a champion this year

I know that’s not conventional wisdom now,

but I really think the Yankees are going to come in third in the east, at least 8 games back.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 1, 2011 8:26 AM PST up reply actions  

But surely New Yorkers will have a chance to see

the Red Sox or Rays come through town.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Feb 1, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes but those are tougher tickets

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I got to see last years lake monsters play a ton in VT (Nationals) during the summer

And it is one of the most pleasnt ballpark expierences you’ll find. It’s believe it or not, the oldest ballpark in America. Funny story, the visitors clubhouse is 1/2 mile away from the dugout, and last year the manager got ejected, and had to walk 1/2 mile to leave the park! But the NYPL is great. I actually work in NYPL (at Hudson Valley most likely) ,so you’ll see me around if you go to games. I’m really excited to see the guys at Citi and Yankee Stadium. Go A’s

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Welcome

Just one thing, the profile pic? Could you change it? Or at least have a different hat in the pic.

by HRH on Feb 1, 2011 9:16 AM PST reply actions  

And a Royals fan? I'm confused.

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.

by the_rozeboom on Feb 1, 2011 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

You just need to photoshop a different hat on.

MLB.com does it all the time.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Feb 1, 2011 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

You just need the MLB hat widget for photoshop

I thought that was your son – very young, at least looking. Good opening effort here. Welcome, and good luck – can be a tough and very discerning crowd here.

by oakballnack on Feb 2, 2011 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Awesome first piece, Dave.

And I will say this: If some statistician calculated our projected total WAR of our farm system to be, say, 20, I’d much rather it be a 20 that comes from a talented system that just had a bunch of down years, instead of a 20 that comes from a farm system that has no talent in the first place.

A couple of the guys who had terrible years could bounce back, and our system would be peachy all over again.

by danmerqury on Feb 1, 2011 10:26 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Thanks Dan

And absolutley, the upside is very very intriuging. I expect a big year out of House, Choice, and Weeks. And there will surely be breakout guys as well.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Awesome write up Dave!

Welcome to AN and this is a great 1st birthday gift of the day for me!

My b-day wish this year is to see health on this team to coincide with a run to the WS!

Go A’s!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Feb 1, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Happy Birthday mrod!

Hope the day bring you many more fun and awesome things.

I have a good feeling about the system. It’ll be hard for Jemile to miss significant time 3 straight years, and there are a lot of guys looking to break out.

-Dave

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks Dave! Appreciate it man...

Yes, not just guys in the system, but more importantly, the guys on the big club. The A’s have to be number one in games lost to injury this decade! For crying out loud, we deserve a friggin break for once! Go A’s!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Feb 1, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Why do you say that?

Weeks has had reoccurring soft tissue injuries all the way since college. Since those injuries are, well, reoccurring, why do you think that he’ll be healthy this year?

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 1, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure what it means.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 1, 2011 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 1, 2011 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Why haven't they done everything they can before?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

This.

I can’t imagine they’ll just turn on the super doctor gun now that he really needs it.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 1, 2011 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks L!

Love ya girlfriend!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Feb 1, 2011 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

:q

“Let’s Go Oakland!….”

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Feb 1, 2011 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Great point dan

Adding full “back to normal” years from Weeks, Taylor, Cardenas and to an extent, Carter, and the farm looks brighter.

Buy some class, act like you've been there before.

by PL78 on Feb 1, 2011 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Welcome Dave!

Great write-up and I am excited to read more of your posts throughout the season.

I know it must be hard to be an A’s fan in Yankee country, but when I get out to NY, which is often, perhaps we could hit an A’s series in NY.

I have abandonment issues. Thanks Lew.

by OptimistPrime on Feb 1, 2011 11:04 AM PST reply actions  

That would be great!

The one thing I love about the A’s, with the exception of Coco Crisp, this team has the most friendly, most awesome guys out of any team. Love the A’s!

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

with the exception of Coco?

did you have a bad experience with him?

He has been awesome any time I have seen him in Oakland and Anaheim. Signed for my kids, very friendly..

by easyraider on Feb 1, 2011 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Appreciate the write-up

Welcome to AN!

A couple things that made me pause:

The lefty does walk many batters, but strikes out more than a batter per inning.

That’s news to me…Krol’s BB/9 last year was 1.8. His K/9 was 7.2. I have a feeling you looked at his stats in Stockton (4.1 BB/9 and 9.2 K/9) and assumed those were his season stats, when in reality those were just four starts’ worth of stats. He pitched most of the season at Kane County.

Also,

Farquahar on the other hand has legitimate plus stuff. His fastball touches the mid-90’s at times, but his slider is state of the art. His command is exceptionally good for a Double-A/Triple-A pitcher as well.

Farquhar’s main issue is that he LACKS command. 4.8 BB/9 in the minors, and 4.9 BB/9 last year.

Not trying to nitpick; I felt those were important things to note in your write-ups of those players. Besides those two things though I really enjoyed the post, and again, welcome to AN!

Contributor for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Feb 1, 2011 11:23 AM PST reply actions  

I'm going to edit the farquahar one.

I get mixed up with Farquahar and Farina at times. Both were Fisher Cats last year, are the same size, have the same long hair, and talk the same. So my bad. and you’re right. And I’ll give you credit.

Krol, I was wrong there. And I’m sorry for that.

I’ll make the corrections.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I appreciate the changes, thanks

I don’t want any credit; I was just trying to be helpful.

I am optimistic about our farm system as well and appreciated you putting that feeling into words for me.

Contributor for Big Cat Country

Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it.

Formerly Gallagher's Watermelons and Player To Be Named Later

by CaliforniaJag on Feb 1, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Any time you want to watch an A's game in NYC

feel free to stop by Pacific Standard in Brooklyn (www.pacificstandardbrooklyn.com). We’re (as far as we know) the only A’s bar in New York and show as many games as we can with our MLB package. Mention you’re an A’s Nation blogger and the first beer will be on us.

by Pacific Standard on Feb 1, 2011 12:18 PM PST reply actions  

Really!?

You can bet I’ll be there. Thanks so much man. Did not know about the A’s bar, but now I know and will definitely come see you guys and watch the A’s. But only on days when Gio, Brett, or Trevor pitch!

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I will be a regular in there!

I just moved to Greenpoint in September last year.

Buy some class, act like you've been there before.

by PL78 on Feb 1, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Great

hope to see you guys here. We usually have some A’s specials and will announce them closer to the start of the season. If you ever plan on coming in as a group, let us know (our e-mails are on our website) and we’ll try to be here because it’s nice for us to watch with some A’s fans sometime. We had some solid A’s Nation people here last year (thus our StAy shirt on the wall).

by Pacific Standard on Feb 3, 2011 12:34 AM PST up reply actions  

What do you expect out of Jordan Tripp? I've never given him much thought.

A few more questions:

1) What about Nunez and de la Cruz?
2) If we’re talking relief prospects, Fautino has to be the cream of the crop, no?
3) How do “big time athletes” like Dixon and House have high ceilings unless they learn to hit?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 1:34 PM PST reply actions  

Re3: Yeah, add Barfield and Krol to that too.

Barfield can’t really hit either and Krol’s main knock is that he isn’t expected to be more than a #3 or #4 starter,

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 1, 2011 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Krol's going to have trouble even being a #4 starter unless he can maintain his already

fringy K-rate through the high minors and majors, no?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

He's of little use unless his stuff improves significantly

Grover claims it might be in the process of doing so, which is great, but certainly it’s no done deal.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2011 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Another route he could take is to become a Mark Buehrle clone

I wouldn’t be too quick to write off those “LHPs who know how to pitch and can spot the ball.” They throw “meh” games that you look at later and realize, “Crap, he tossed a five-hitter?”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Another route he could take is to become a Mario Ramos clone

I wouldn’t be too quick to praise those “LHPs who know how to pitch and can spot the ball”. They throw terrible games that you look at later and realize, “Crap, why didn’t I see this guy had no talent years ago?”

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait, so a 19 year old A-ball pitcher might not turn out to be great?

Just give me a few minutes to try to process this important new information.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 6:39 PM PST up reply actions  

If I had to pick one A's prospect as most overrated it would be Krol.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 6:58 PM PST up reply actions  

That's odd because he's not rated that high

“Could be a middle of the rotation guy in a few years!”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, that's too high. It's more like "could be a reliever if he

can maintain his K-rate in the pen".

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 7:21 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL, ok.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 7:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Pretty far drop from Mark Buehrle, eh?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 11:05 PM PST up reply actions  

That's absurd

"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"

www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html

by hero66 on Feb 1, 2011 9:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Over-rated

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow.

Yeah, I see a much higher upside than “could be a reliever”.

by danmerqury on Feb 1, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

See what I mean by "overrated"?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Because I've seen a whole bunch of such guys come and go,

all of whom have the same comments as prospects — polished lefty could be a 4th starter — Anthony Capra and Carlos Hernandez are the two most recent ones. Until he shows he can maintain his K-rate in AA, he’s another one of those to me.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 11:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm having a hard time seeing any similarities between Capra and Krol other than both of them being left-handed...

Capra has Ks, he just has awful command. Krol is the opposite. They also don’t really feature the same pitches.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 1:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, he was a worse example than Hernandez or Mario Ramos

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 2:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Goldstien says hes a 4th starter in the making.

Which is surprising since he is such a velocity whore.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 1, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Goldstein liked him better than Sickels, which surprised me.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Yet Sickels gave Krol a B-, which is a very solid grade from him

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Krol's strikeout ability is better than a quick glance at K/9 suggests

He faced very few batters per inning, so his K% will be better than his K/9 suggests.

But, yeah, you’d still like to see a prospect put up a better K rate in the MWL.

by Danny on Feb 2, 2011 5:10 PM PST up reply actions  

1.

Jordan Tripp is a 6’4 outfielder and has some upside. Likely won’t have tons of power, but might be a special hitter. Might be a similiar prospect to what Mark Teahen was in the A’s farm system.

2.

Nunez is light years away, but is as good of a prospect as any of the July 2nd signings in ’10. Definitely keep an eye on him, but likely nothing to see until he gets out of the DSL. However, lots of pitchers get to know their stuff in the DSL and GCL/AZL. De La Cruz is in a similiar boat.

3.

To me, Tyson Ross is the best relief prospect and he might even be the 2nd best pitching prospect. He had a rough go in the majors, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to be the same with more Triple-A expierence.

4.

Certain players don’t “find it” until they are a bit older and expierenced. It’s all about ceilings. Keep in mind, high schoolers are drafted at age 17/18, still kids. Even though that’s a clichy.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

pretty much all of this, yes.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 1, 2011 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

They didn't tell you coming in that you'd be the low man on the analyst totem pole, did they?

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 1, 2011 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh good

We have:

1. A non-A’s fan;
2. With a weak writing style;
3. Whose big first post is full of inaccuracies; and
4. Gets churlish when those inaccuracies are pointed out in about the most neutral way possible.

Hunh.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 1, 2011 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I think

PaulThomas seemed a little snarky. Take it easy. It’s just a sports blog. I doubt that our prospects are as horrible as you claim they are. We’re all A’s fans here. Why create enemies?

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 2:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Because projecting prospects is really dumb?

Players break out and regress all the time. Why can’t Taylor, after an offseason of work, explode this year; Weeks stays healthy; Carter reduces his K%; etc etc.?

by Pino on Feb 2, 2011 2:49 AM PST up reply actions  

So all evaluation of people is really dumb and all people are capable of anything

under the canopy of the sun?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 2:52 AM PST up reply actions  

If I know anything

it’s that no one can really predict sports. Prospects who are supposed to be good tank and prospects who aren’t supposed to be good will become all stars. I just see Dave’s view of our prospects as more optimistic, and there is nothing wrong with that. I just felt like PaulThomas sounded a bit elititst, as if his statistical analysis is undoubtedly correct. PaulThomas may feel like he is right because he has some stats to prove his point, but that doesn’t mean as much as you think it might. PaulThomas and Dave have different views to be heard, and it is immature to attack Dave as if we know for a fact that all of our prospects suck.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually, PT was about

as nice as I’ve ever seen him. In fact, when I read his intro, I ran right away to get salve for Dave; I knew it was gonna hurt. And then…not so much.

One will not always agree with PT, but you can’t fault his efforts to research and defend his pov. And if it comes off as snobby or elitist, well, that’s just because it might be. LOL. Does it matter?

At least in this singular instance, I saw Dave being gouged for literal mis-statements, not for anything much “pure opinion.”

And I didn’t care much, because my BS meter actually works, so if someone has a thought I disagree with, I’ll debate it or let it go, but I won’t get savage about it.

But then Dave made it clear we should just suck it up…and the hounds of war were loosed.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

What statistical analysis?

There are a couple of minor stats cited in that post, but they’re almost unnecessary to the point. There’s not a thing in that post (other than perhaps some needlessly thick verbiage, which is an addiction of mine) that an eighth-grader couldn’t follow.

As for the notion that I “attacked” anyone, it’s utter nonsense. Refutation of bad arguments is not an “attack.”

Finally, and just as an aside, I’ve got no problems saying that there is something wrong with being optimistic about something about which there is no ground to be optimistic. That kind of thinking usually leads to results which are, depending on the degree to which those thoughts are acted on, anywhere from silly (the Gil Meche contract) to tragic (Napoleon’s invasion of Russia).

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Meche'n accomplished

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 2, 2011 2:11 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

It wasn't so much

you attacking, because I read most of the comments now, but it seemed like DesignatedforAssignment took every opportunity to lash out against Dave. Even though DFA was, essentially, saying the same thing over and over again. I am a noob to this site as well, but I am starting to get turned off because there seems to be a lot of cliques. I know that we all want the best information possible, but this is a blogging site where we can write what we want, and I think some of the comments on here are going to scare off a lot of potential first time writers. I think it’s best to be supportive of the writers on here because we all root for the same team. If a few of you keep arguing with every statement that isn’t proven than you may turn off everyone except for yourselves.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I think there are going to be growing pains

Dave needs to basically prove himself to everyone here right from the start, and his first post didn’t do a very good job of that. We don’t “know” him so he has to develop and earn his own reputation here. A couple of his initial reactions didn’t go over very well.

On the other hand, I can see there being suspicion toward someone who’s brand new here, but I think he deserves the chance to swing and miss a couple times before he’s sent to the bench. Paul made some very strong but solid rebuttals but it does look like there’s been a little piling on.

Dave’s either going to improve and hopefully become a solid contributor here once he finds his comfort zone, or it’ll probably be a short-lived arrangement.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 2:55 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah.

Guys, I said this over and over. I understand that it was a sub par post. And I’m going to try harder next time. Thats all I can do or say.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

You could always

buy drinks for the house. Just send the money to my PayPal account, and I’ll take it from there.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

ok

well I generally find the commenters on AN to be both insightful and funny. I just think that a couple of people need to tone down their aggressiveness when they don’t agree with someone. For example, I have stopped claiming that Cahill will have a better season next year than he did this past year because I get ripped a new asshole everytime I say that. Everyone says that his historically low BABIP last year means that he will put up more pedestrian numbers this year as his BABIP undoubtedly goes up. I just expect Cahill to increase his strikeout rate which will help offset his increased BABIP, and Cahill got a lot of people to roll over on his sinker and curve, so a lot of the balls hit in play were weak grounders which we can expect will be converted into outs again.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Or you could go with

the defense is as good if not better, so why would the BABIP change much?

Of course, I can’t source that.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Not looking to derail this thread even more,

But he counterargument to that would be that if you went all in before the flop holding pocket 3s, and ended up beating a guy with pocket aces, you can’t expect to win the next time you’re in that scenario.

by danmerqury on Feb 2, 2011 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I know

I realize that Cahill having a better season can not be “expected,” so I can’t really say much on the subject until the season begins. I guess you could chalk it up to a gut feeling I have about Cahill, but I realize that I am playing with fire because you should never bet on something just based off of a gut feeling that you may have.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Except that cards can't improve their K rates!

Or…can they?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Ryan Franklin sure didn't

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Not the same thing

DM. And it doesn’t even fly in the face of sabermetrics: If Cahill drew his defensive team like I’m drawing to pocket pairs, you’re on the money. But if I can choose to draw 2 more 3’s like the A’s can choose to stand pat or even improve their defense, then I will win every time except when Fate dictates 2 more Aces also.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh

The fundamental point— that beating pocket aces with pocket treys makes you a lucksack, not a good player— is indisputable.

Getting back to baseball, the defense is pretty overwhelmingly likely to be worse, based on little more than regression to the mean and the fact that Josh Willingham is now on the team, so that point’s off base to begin with.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Lol

I do understand some of the skepticisim surrounding Cahill, and it is a bit worrisome, but I just have the utmost confidence in Cahill. I realize I can not say much to back up my claims until we actually see how he does next year. If Cahill does have a worse season, than I will admit that I was wrong.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you are perfectly fine with what you believe.

And so are the other people. As long as the conversation remains civil, everything is ok and it’s up to Cahill to prove one side right.

by LoneStranger on Feb 2, 2011 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

why is it all or none?

what’s more likely to be incorrect? that cahill can consistently generate a year better than any other sinkerball pitcher in baseball or that he will still good but not this unfathomable?

i’m not sure

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 2, 2011 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with you

People who have argued with me have acted like it’s all or none. People have even said that they would trade Cahill for Colby Lewis in a New York minute, which I really don’t get. I think his BABIP will go up, but he will improve in other categories, so I expect his ERA to be about the same if not better.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

i'd like to believe that his k/9 will go up. i just have no justification for believing that.

but you are entitled to your belief.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 2, 2011 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

justification

could be that, generally, younger players K/9 rate goes up as the get older. I understand why his bb/9 may go up as people start laying off his sinker but then he just has to throw his sinker for a strike.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

k/9 goes up as a player ages? that seems wrong to me...but i have no data.

i know its not true in the minors. not clear why it’d be true in the majors. but i’m open to learning.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 2, 2011 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I read it

on Buster Olney’s blog because he was saying that he expects great things from Cahill and the rest of our rotation.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

apparently it might...

linky

but will it rise enough to offset a higher babip? interesting.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 2, 2011 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Good link

Personally, I think it will because our defense is still stellar, so I don’t expect his BABIP to rise a whole hell of a lot. That is basically why I think Cahill will have a better year next year. he has already made tremendous improvements in home runs allowed in less than a year.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that's mostly because hitters

started hitting HR off him at an average rate instead of a Ruthian rate.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd trade Cahill for Colby Lewis in a NY minute

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

now you’re just being a dick. Lewis may be better for fantasy but not IRL.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Its not completely unfounded.

Lewis had better FIP, K/9, and twice as much WAR as Cahill last season. Cahill had more wins, better ERA and better groundball rate. It’s perfectly reasonable to take Lewis over Cahill.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 2, 2011 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I wasn't kidding

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 7:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I know you weren't

Does that include contract status?

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 7:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure. Cahill's a 2 WAR pitcher with

4 years left where he’ll make $18M or something. Lewis is a 4 WAR pitcher with 2 years left where he’s making $6M or something.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

sold.

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sold on Lewis

We’re talking about a guy who, before he went to Japan, only pitched for a couple full seasons and change in the Majors and never posted more than a 0.5 WAR. Now all of a sudden he put up a 4.4 at age 31 but he’s got to prove it wasn’t a fluke.

Cahill’s got things yet to prove as well but he’s nine years younger and put up a 2.2 WAR already, a year after a 0.6 when he was widely considered to be rushed too soon as a rookie.

I’d give Cahill a much better probability of continuing to improve going forward than Lewis, who only managed a 0.5 WAR his first five seasons combined.

Sure, Lewis was a revelation in numerous ways, but I say “do it again first.”

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Lewis has been very good for 3 years already. You cannot discount his Japanese success.

The likelihood that he is a “fluke” is much lower than the likelihood that Cahill is a fluke. At this point, he has the better track record.

He is very clearly a different pitcher now than he was before. This is something that doesn’t happen all that rarely with pitchers.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 2, 2011 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I can and will discount at least some of his Japanese success

They’re good but it’s still not the same level of quality as MLB. Just look at what Matt Murton did over there.

For me what you do in MLB is what’s most important. If he repeats what he did last year then I’ll change my mind – but not before then.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, obviously it is not as pertinent as if those years were in the majors.

But the Japanese league is roughly the equivalent of a level between AAA and MLB. Since his MLEs in those years were ace level, it was not out of the question to project him as a #2 starter in the majors.

And since that’s exactly what he was last year in Texas, then you can assume that his track record and performance was legitimate.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 2, 2011 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

You can assume it if you wish to

Who expected him to put up a 4.4 WAR last year? Would anyone have seriously predicted that heading into the season?

Too many times I’ve seen someone look like they figured it all out only to go back to being mediocre again. I see nothing wrong with taking a wait and see approach with him one more year.

I’m still saying “do it again in Texas before I’m more fully convinced.” I don’t see how that’s a bad thing.

Most people probably expected CJ Wilson to fall apart the second half of last year since he hadn’t been a full-time starter in Texas until then, but he held up just fine. I’d say those two pitchers were a major reason why the Rangers got as far as they did on top of their usual offensive output, but they were both question marks going in. Still, the question has to be “can they both do it again?”

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the point is that you can do the same with Cahill

Post a 2.89 ERA again and I’ll believe in you. For a lot of people, they think its more likely that Lewis posts 4 WAR than Cahill posts sub 3 ERA.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 2, 2011 8:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Cahill absolutely will not post a 2.89 ERA again

And I’m a big supporter of his. The measure of whether he’s “for real” is not whether he can repeat his 2010 numbers. If he posts, say, a 15-11 record and 3.40 ERA, he will have helped show he is “for real.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

He should be pretty pissed if he puts

up a 3.40 ERA and is only 15-11

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

CHONE did project a 4 WAR season

from Lewis in 2010

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

He had Cahill 12 Runs above Replacement

pre-season in 138 IP (so we can gross that up to a full season) and I’m remembering around 22 RAR midseason but I don’t remember the IP.

He had Lewis 37 RAR in 167 IP pre-season and 40 something midseason.

The pre-season numbers are on his site still

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure whether this was your

question, but each 1 WAR is about equal to 10 RAR, so he predicted Cahill at about 1.2 WAR in about 3/4 of a season preseason and Lewis at 3.7 WAR in something just short of a full season.

If you meant where did he come up with these projections, I think it’s a secret and we believe them only because of the track record of the system.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

It was more the former than the latter

I was mainly curious to see if they both outperformed their projections, but I wouldn’t have figured Lewis would be projected as high as he was going in.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Indeed

I’ve said this before, but you know who else sucked so bad in 2007 he got sent to the minors? Cliff Lee.

Pitchers improve and decline in fits and starts, not with smooth aging curves, which is something that the Cahill-o-philes consistently ignore (and especially so with this particular comparison).

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea, but you argue like it's a given he'll go down.

It’s not. Sure, the past may imply that he won’t be as good, but it’s not guaranteed. Allow people to stand on the other side of the fence without laughing at them.

by LoneStranger on Feb 3, 2011 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Yep

Cahill will likely not have as good a year as he did last season, but there’s no reason to think he still won’t be a solid, above-average pitcher. He already is.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 3, 2011 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

I would posit that the probably 10000 or more words

that I have expended in reasoned argument upon precisely this subject makes the notion that I am “laughing at” the opposing side pretty damned offensive.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 3, 2011 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I've never been a big fan

of WAR because I think that statistic is flawed. Sure, Colby had higher FIP and K/9, but he is older and we can expect Cahill to improve in those categories. He will still be the Rangers second best pitcher but he would be our 4th or 5th option. He had one good year, but I expect him to return to mediocrity next year.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Lewis would be the A's best pitcher

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

more like

what is his reasoning for thinking that Lewis is better than any of our pitchers? He must not think very highly of our pitchers. WaddellCanseco, do you think Lewis will one of the top 20 pitchers next year? Top 15?!!

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 9:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see why Lewis can't be a 4 WAR pitcher

in 2011

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

No way

he had never even been close to that level plus he is 31. I see no reason to think that he can repeat last year’s success.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 10:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Speaking for myself

As a guy who would prefer Lewis to Cahill, more of Lewis’ success was based on things he can control; strikeouts, fielding independent statistics, etc. More of Cahill’s success were things outside of his control; the grounders he induces being playable, his defense being phenomenal, etc.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 2, 2011 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Colby Lewis may be the best pitcher among Rangers and A's starters

His advanced stats were very impressive. I would say only Brett Anderson could be considered a better bet for 2011, but with his health in question I would probably take Lewis.

Check this out:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/2/1/1968024/league-leaders-in-era-estimators

The lists of starters who posted the best bbFIP and kwERA contains most of the top pitchers in the league. Two underrated guys that slide in amongst the Cliff Lee’s and Roy Halladay’s of the world when looking at these stats: Colby Lewis and Hiroki Kuroda.

SIERA will be out soon, but I am going to guess that it also says Colby Lewis is the best pitcher of the bunch.

Would I trade Cahill for him? Hard to say. 4 years of control is a lot more than 2 years and I think Cahill can still improve. If I knew I only had a 2 year window to win, I would probably do it.

by DrDoom on Feb 3, 2011 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

It's also worth noting that Oliver

(THT’s projection system) has Colby Lewis as the 8th best ERA in the majors in 2011. 3.32.

by danmerqury on Feb 3, 2011 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Is Oliver credible?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 6:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Zips hates Anderson, by the way.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 4, 2011 7:55 AM PST up reply actions  

You have it backwards.

Cahill may be better for fantasy but not in IRL.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 2, 2011 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

People say

that Colby will be good for fantasy because he is on a good team and he struck out a good amount of batters last year.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah that

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 2, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Nah Colby is much better

Setting up my auction values for my draft, I have Colby at $14 and Cahill at $10. The K’s are the big difference. I won’t even target guys like Cahill since we set weekly rosters and I need to maximize K’s. If you use FIP as an ERA predictor, then Lewis should win out there too.

Cahill does have the coliseum and the A’s defense on his side so he may edge out ERA in the end… but I need those Ks.

by DrDoom on Feb 3, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah I probably would too.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 2, 2011 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

we all root for the same team

I’m a Yankees fan.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 2, 2011 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Really? I always assumed you were an Angels fan.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Yankees, Angels, Red Sox, Giants

In order of preference.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 2, 2011 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I am unworried about "turning off everyone except for myself" and have no plans of any kind to change how I respond to posts or what I respond to

I make no bones about thinking a smaller and more informed “community” is outright better and more interesting than a larger and less informed mass, so suggesting to me that my style might have that effect is hardly going to deter me.

If that makes me a pain in the ass to the powers that be in the goal of attracting the Almighty Page View, they can either change the site rules to outlaw critique— in which case I’ll leave— or live with it in the hope that I’m little more than a minor annoyance, which is probably the more rational approach.

As for DFA, while he was clearly hostile, nothing he said was remotely illegitimate. If your point of view is a. that a really bad first front-page post should get you bounced, and b. that this is a really bad first front-page post— well, he’s allowed to express that point of view. Forcefully.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 9:44 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

I find it hard to believe

that so many people in the ‘less informed mass’ misconstrue your intentions to the point where you find yourself having to frequently explain them.

A less appealing alternative would be that maybe the simpletons actually have a functional sense of decorum superior to your own.

by sleepingcobra on Feb 2, 2011 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

i'm gonna turn this post green...

i prefer dfa’s and PT’s (hey ma, look i pressed the shift key) content and approach to the “because i’m a fan” approach. i prefer reason, even if delivered in a rough manner, to faith.

i’d prefer dfa use less “force,” but if its at the risk of losing his content then i say be foreceful.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 3, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Also, one of his first responses was to come off with an attitude when his post was torn apart.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

It was mainly the "glad you like it. keep reading" comment after Paul's long response

Whether you intended it to be snarky or not, I can see why it was taken as a blow-off.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I think

that Dave did not seem that snarky, and Paul seemed a little more rude when he said “try me” That is being more sarcastic than anything Dave said.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I am more than a casual observer

and I didn’t feel the “rippinng to shreds” was necessary.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

It wasn't necessary in the sense that you can let something

go even if it’s not of high quality, but it certainly was deserved.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Or you can say what "needs to be said"

in a civil or constructive manner. Like, you know, adults.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Hee hee...you said "adults"

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 7:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I noes!!!!

They’re tall.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 7:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I look at them square in the ass

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Did I not do so?

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone is saying you didn't

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't tell WHO people are referring to

when they act passive-aggressive and don’t actually cite specific comments they found offensive.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 10:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't either but it's a vague enough

comment that it can be ignored

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 10:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I believe that Nico is referring to me

but since he has a don’t respond to me policy, I think he is trying to be vague.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 3, 2011 12:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Not really.

An absolute statement was made. A counter-offer to said statement was made. I didn’t read “rude” there, myself.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Neither did I

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Your very first reply to PT.

When he made counterpoints to about a dozen of the statements you made, you had no rebuttal beyond making a flippant “glad you like it” comment that simply smacked of an immature kid who didn’t want to have his writing criticized.

I’m sure you’re a cool cat and all, but whether you realize it or not Nico’s mention of you in the same sentence as danmerqury when he announced you as a FP writer as well as saying you wrote for BtB meant that you had a pretty friggin high bar to measure up to, and it didn’t measure up.

I’m super duper glad you’ll try harder next time, though I guess I fail to see why you wouldn’t have tried harder the first time.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought Paul's response was exemplary

and perfectly pitched.

But I had no problem with Dave’s response. He took his lumps and acknowledged that the onus is on him to do better next time. I didn’t find it flippant or immature at all.

What would you have him say instead? This really isn’t about his attitude. Either he’s an informed A’s fan who is up for front-page analysis or he’s not. We’ll see.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Feb 4, 2011 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Dave did say he was an A's fan
Due to the fact that I live in New York, I rarely get the chance to see my beloved A’s play, but I relish the opportunity whenever they come to New York

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I can explain

the year was 2009, in Los Angeles, I did not have all of my caps with me. I was on vacation. A Yankee hat matches with everything. I have a thing about that. However, I wear the same A’s cap almost everyday in NY. It is a 2009 All-Star Andrew Bailey away green cap, that i’ll hapilly take a picture of myself in a put it on my facebook or twitter.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

That actually makes a lot of sense

I’ve often envied Yankees fans for the fact that their caps never clash with anything. Green and gold has its limits as a fashion accessory.

by Glorious Mundy on Feb 1, 2011 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

hogwash

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 1, 2011 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed. Green and gold goes with everything.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 6:58 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah.

Even though I’ve no idea who they are.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

What Not To Wear

But I think the gold falls into the realm of glitzy accessories and the right green into a pop of color, so maybe they are relevant.

by lynnzgal on Feb 1, 2011 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

A Yankee hat matches with everything

Except for it being a Yankee hat. ;-)

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 1, 2011 7:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Theo Epstein put you up to it?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 8:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not saying you aren't an A's fan at all

But we’re not very tolerant of most Yankees or Red Sox fans because the typical one is kind of obnoxious.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 1, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions  

You know what? I hate the White Sox.

I have a White Sox hat… a reproduction of one of the white ones with blue pinstripes from about 1920.

I wore it to wiffleball once, because I wear lots of different uni tops and hats. I’d never dare use it as a fashion coordination accessory, though.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I only wear the hats of the teams I love

and besides all hats go with navy blue polo shirts.

But seriously, folks....

by Mr. Brian on Feb 2, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Navy blue polo shirts are for Yankee fans.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you color in the little part of the O so that it says "SEX" on the logo?!?!

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Different logo

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, well in that case you should just write SEX across the middle line.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I feel you're being disrespectful

And feel you need to write “SEX” a million times as punishment. Use the pinstripes of that jersey like lines on a paper to do it.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Feb 2, 2011 10:09 PM PST up reply actions  

At least you didn't sentence him to have sex

a million times

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

that'd be punishment for the person he's having sex with

sorry mikev

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 3, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Who says it's just 1 person

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 3, 2011 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

as many as it takes

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 3, 2011 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a start,

but you need to hate ALL the other teams. Quite frankly, since 1972 or so, if I didn’t follow the A’s I wouldn’t follow baseball. And I love baseball.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

There's one Yankees guy who comes here occasionally

who is totally cool. I forget his name, but I like him. I think maybe he’s one of the Pinstripe Alley writers.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Feb 4, 2011 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Aren't you getting paid like Neyer?

If you’re not getting paid, then people should get off your back about everything other than the mediocre analysis.

Mediocre analysis always gets jumped on with two feet around here. Par for the course.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 1, 2011 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

No one gets paid to write for AN

It’s a labor of masochism love.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I get paid...

just for my random comments. It is a very lucrative gig.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 1, 2011 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

The only pay is for managing the site

I get paid to manage the site (i.e., to the “Blogfather”) and don’t (and never did) get paid for writing, nor do any of the other writers.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Is that a suggestion?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

No.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 3, 2011 12:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I have no idea.

I just know people are paid to be “blogfathers” and not to be “writers” and that those who are paid are being paid for their blogfathery, not for their writery.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Person writes on the front page and doesn't get paid.

Person then becomes “main writer” on the front page and doesn’t get paid. Person then becomes “main writer on the front page and blogfather” and gets paid.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 6:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Offhand, I would think that getting paid to be an A's fan would actually be worse than NOT getting paid to NOT be an A's fan

But that’s just me.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 2:12 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm sorry to hear that.

Hopefully, your life and opportunities and joy are spiralling upward, in fractal opposition to the toilet you see the A’s going into.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

No, I don't mean worse for the person in question

It’s obviously better for him. I mean worse for us, the hoi polloi.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

No Dave, don't

do that. Put down the snark and step away from the keyboard. I’m warning you ~~ LOL

by Omnipotent One on Feb 1, 2011 5:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Dave, stop. Stop, will you? Stop, Dave. Will you stop, Dave? Stop, Dave. I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it.

Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you’d like to hear it, I can sing it for you.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 1, 2011 5:56 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

OK, sing "Hound Dog"

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 5:57 PM PST up reply actions  

As much as It pains me

I have to agree with Paul. I appreciate the effort from Dave and look forward to future posts, but there were a lot of inaccuracies here. A simple editing pass could have cleaned it up somewhat. As for the unverified claims, shall I assume that is from first-hand scouting? Second hand? Internet searches? Just let us know… thats all.

I’m basically on board with your premise (being an optimist and all), but I didn’t see too much to make me believe the premise any more or less than I already do. And I felt the pressing need to make corrections, which is pretty rare for me.

by DrDoom on Feb 1, 2011 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

There's a different standard for front-page posts, IMO

and in any case, I was at some pains to make sure it was understood that my concerns are with accuracy and sourcing.

Though, I have to say, blowing me off is an excellent start toward me developing a more personal distaste.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 1, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

I agree with all of this

The way he was sold made me think I was the target audience. The “research” and comments have us off to a bad start.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 1, 2011 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah - it's a little disheartening

that it worked out this way. I think all of Paul’s points were right on mark – I was thinking many of the same things as I read the article, and as much as I initially wanted to give it a pass, I’m a little alarmed at the lack of creditable to some very fundamental questions/doubts Paul and others have raised.

by oakballnack on Feb 2, 2011 11:37 PM PST up reply actions  

responses

“alarmed at the lack of creditable responses” is what i meant to say above. D’uh.

by oakballnack on Feb 3, 2011 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm torn here.

On one hand, I give him a break, since its his first post. On the other hand, you’re right, a lot of these claims seem to be based on anecdotal evidence. On the other hand, I’m ok with having an anecdotal evidence guy for the minors (gives someone for non stat people to read.) On another hand, he basically said “Everyone could have a breakout year and we could be awesome again” which could be said of any baseball team ever, so isn’t really relevant to this team.

I guess I’m withholding too much judgment until I see more.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 1, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

There doesn't seem to be any anecdotal evidence either.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 1, 2011 5:12 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I generally consider anecdotal evidence to refer to scouting reports by actual scouts

or statements from other respected, credible people in the business like Sickels.

Those examples you give above I would classify as “simply saying stuff”. Which is neither “anecdotal” nor “evidence”.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Feb 1, 2011 5:31 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

And you should always

source things. That is very important. Especially if it is an opinion.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 1, 2011 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

For instance, the opinions

on the Davis- Magnuson/Farquar (sp) trades vary wildly. One analysis, however, has them as the #28 and #9 prospects in the Jays system last year.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 1, 2011 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I did give points to back up what I said

But I want to prove myself. That’s not going to happen with one post. And I understand that.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

It sucks that they're having you write for the front page right away...

getting the lay of the land for a month or two and a few thousand comments would have been the September callup you needed.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Some prospects can take

the jump, some can’t. You just don’t know for sure, especially if you just traded for him.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

This is why you should say hi back when I say hi.

Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer

by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2011 5:31 PM PST reply actions  

did you sick the dogs on him?

;-)

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Feb 1, 2011 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Not saying hi to Bloomie was just as big a faux pas as blowing off PT

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 1, 2011 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Blood, it would appear, will be spilling soon...!

"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."

-John "Blue Moon" Odom

by mrod on Feb 1, 2011 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Imagine AN as a milkshake, Dave.

Waffle House is good for two things: 1 – coffee; 2 – finding cheap whores -- Jennifer

by Leopold Bloom on Feb 1, 2011 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

"AN is a milkshake, and I'm lactose intolerant!"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 1, 2011 7:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Hi Lynn

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

WAD!

How the hell are ya?

by lynnzgal on Feb 1, 2011 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

This is by far, the funniest

but realistic, and constructive message board I’ve ever been part of.

Thank you for all of the criticism. I’ll be honest, no excuses, it wasn’t great, but I’ll write a better post next week. Give me a break guys. Cut me some slack.

However, you guys are the best.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 1, 2011 6:51 PM PST reply actions  

Trial by fire, Dave!

You’re on the bleeding edge.

by lynnzgal on Feb 1, 2011 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously

Stick with this attitude and you’ll do more than survive here.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Feb 1, 2011 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

You're alright doc.

Keep reading and learn the meta-culture of the site and you’ll be fine by Opening Day.

Also, change most of your wardrobe to green and gold so your A’s hats don’t clash.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 1, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Tell you what

Engage with commenters instead of brushing them off and we can talk.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 1, 2011 10:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I can tell you why I'M not on the front page, anyway...

I can’t write on schedule. Not original writing, anyway. There’s a reason I didn’t choose journalism as a career. I’d be reduced to old hat and cliches within three weeks. Quips are one thing, full articles are quite another.

I do sympathize with the head office, because finding and keeping people who can manage writing once a week or more, AND actually want to do it, is not easy at all.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 2:09 AM PST up reply actions  

better be careful

you don’t want to get banned

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't?

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 2, 2011 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

where else could you discuss the A's?

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

KNBR?

But seriously, folks....

by Mr. Brian on Feb 2, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Ditto for me

everything Paul said in this comment.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Feb 5, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I understand that despite not knowing anything about the A's and not being a fan that you were given a fp gig

I’d rather read twice as much Nico. That you got promoted is offensive to the notion that we are a community, since clearly your content doesn’t deserve to be there and you haven’t paid your dues at an

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 2, 2011 9:36 AM PST via mobile up reply actions   4 recs

Someone's gotta say it, a lot of people are thinking it.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

I disagree, I think we've got every right to ask the questions

DFA may be a little more brash than others going about it, but it’s still valid to ask. Nobody has to answer, but that doesn’t mean the questions can’t be brought up.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, take it out on

the guys that promoted/hired/whatever’d Dave. Hoo WAS that masked man, anyway? Seriously, I pushed a complete blizzard off my property and Dave is still being stomped to mush !!! Everyone rest !

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think anybody is coming down on him for anything but the subpar article

But it would have been nice to know how/why he was made a FP poster, at least something more than this:

Also joining, initially as a "super utility fill-in," is Dave Gershman, who writes for Beyond the Boxscore and projects to have a WAR just a tick below danmerqury.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure, but Nico

probably knows more about it that even Dave does.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll answer. I wasn't looking for a writer

at the time Dave contacted SBN and asked about contributing. I had never heard of him but learned he was a writer for known sites like Beyond the Boxscore, which made me think, “Maybe he can add some more of the statistical perspective some readers like.”

Since I knew literally nothing about him, I internally polled the writers and asked, “Anyone have any opinion on this guy, either as a writer or person, or both?” The response was positive, so I decided to bring him on as a “utility player” and see how it went.

He doesn’t even have a “day” — he’s just available to pinch hit for writers who don’t have content that day — so I didn’t see it as major decision or commitment, especially in the off-season. More of a “Hey maybe we can bring back some Staturday-type posts” type of flier, based on his resume with BtB and a couple “Yeah I’d recommend him” endorsements from others.

That’s about the long and short of it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Well you should

prepare to take your drubbing.

Or not.

Completely up to you.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough, and it's not a torch and pitchfork thing where we're demanding an explanation.

While we’re on the subject, though, was it ever brought up that perhaps someone here might have been deserving of it as well (beyond Zonis, I mean, who deserves it)?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

No, what made this different is that I wasn't planning to add anyone

So basically I got an application for a position I didn’t have. Had I actually been looking to add someone, I would not have considered him simply because I believe in promoting internally based on tenure/reputation.

But I figured it might be good to have a “super sub” available, because I know that a couple of the FP writers are particularly busy right now in their “real lives.”

I said “sure” for exactly two reasons (because I had literally not heard of him): That he wrote for a well-known stat-oriented site and a couple ANers I polled endorsed him.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

ambitious of him to offer, courageous of you to accept

rejected by much of the community…

Maybe having some non-time-sensitive stories in the can, as well as aggressive promotion of decent FanPosts on days when Front Pagers can’t participate would be better than a non A’s-fan “super sub.”

Maybe the best way to use Dave’s talents would be for him to see if he can get some interviews with some of the Lake Monsters, as well as his minor league scouting reports framed within that context, rather than framed as statistical analyses? I’d be stoked to see a prospect interview on the front page on a Monday morning.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, and had this been a kick-ass post

it would have been a better start, and had people been more gracious in their criticism it would have gotten the same message across. However, the sample size is exactly one so let’s see how things go and after a few posts we’ll know more.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I expected more since "OMG HE'S FROM BTB!!!" was basically why he's posting here

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Understood.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

So wait.

You had no real plans to add someone and if you did, you’d have promoted within. That doesn’t really fly with the idea of “oh, well, since you’re asking, um… why not” sort of approach you took with him. If you’re “applying for a job” in this sense, shouldn’t the first thing you should have done is ask, “is this person in a position to easily be a part of the community they’re asking ‘lead’ and have they done so?”

If this guy wants to be a FP writer, hey great, but if he actually wants to be a part of the community, was an incredibly easy to thing to do. You join, you write. Outside of asking for a spot, he put as much effort in this post as he did in getting involved with the community when asking for the position. That alone should have raised a red flag. It’s as if he wanted to skip the step of actually putting in that effort and just jump to the top and you basically enabled that effort and allowed him to cheat his way there.

It’s good that you polled your inner circle and got a positive response, but there’s still got to be more to it, especially when you’re talking about a community that so easy to get involved with and already has a very talented pool of writers that could pinch-write on an as needed basis.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Feb 2, 2011 10:32 PM PST up reply actions   5 recs

TWHS
It’s good that you polled your inner circle and got a positive response

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 3, 2011 5:04 AM PST up reply actions  

My reply to DFA below probably answers this.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I appreciate that you tried to include more stats.

But if you had done any reading of his writing you would know that this post is pretty standard for his blogging and that he isn’t an A’s fan. Did you not read any of his posts?

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 3, 2011 12:40 AM PST up reply actions  

NOW you've hit on the fairest criticism

No, I did not read any of his posts. I saw he was a writer for BtB, thought that could be a nice type of addition, asked the other front page writers “What do you think?”, got a positive response, and thought “Why not?” I thought I was probably getting a salb918; the first post obviously wasn’t of that nature, by the writer’s own admission.

Do I wish the first post had been better? Sure. Am I going to overreact to it? Nope. Did I assume I was getting a “Staturday-type guy”? Yep. Was I negligent not to do more research? Yep. Did I have time to do more research while working a full-time job, and teaching 5-hour classes on Saturdays, in January? Frankly, not really.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I went back and read BtB for the first time, and there's no one there that I'd particularly

put in the effort to read on a regular basis that I can see. It really doesn’t carry that much weight with me.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 7:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Hmm, I thought it was pretty reputable

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

It is.

There’s some VERY good writing over there. Hell, they’ve graduated something like 5 or 6 Baseball Prospectus writers.

by danmerqury on Feb 3, 2011 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

So then my "Oh, he writes for BtB --

I should see what people who know him think and go with that" wasn’t so dumb. Cool.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 8:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Nah.

If you care about your time so much (as you do and should) the first question shouldn’t have been “is BtB reputable.” It should have been “has this writer, who wants to be on AN’s front page, actually put any energy into actually being a part of the community he’s asking into?” At which point, being that you frequent this particular site quite often, you’d have thought, “well, no, I’ve never even heard of this guy” and taken a pass. Seems like you put in more work to justify adding him then you did in properly vetting him.

As a general policy, adding someone to the front page who hasn’t even been part of the community is just a really bad idea. It honestly wouldn’t have mattered had he written something amazing. We’re now getting people who care less about the community at large and more about “hey, look at me, I can write.” And by taking this path, you’ve added a certain amount of legitimacy to this. It’s certainly not a “the sky is falling” moment and we should always welcome great writing, but is a slippery “ledge” you’re stepping on to.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Feb 3, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Well, lesson learned.

Hardly by a disaster, though — ZOMG there was a sub-par post on the front page!!! Heck, I write those all the time!

If what you’re worried about is that you’ll be seeing a lot of outside people added to the front page mix, don’t — not happening. Just seemed like a “sure, let’s try it” opportunity during the off-season when half our FP writers are very distractedly busy in their “real lives.”

I think people tend to get too obsessed with “slippery slopes.” Because something happened once, it has to become a trend? No, it could also happen once.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 8:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Hear, hear!

Basing a projection of the future on a trend is NOT a proper use of stats. Maybe this was just an “outlier” post, and Dave will regress towards the “mean”, which should be better.

Fan: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Fan: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.

by Tutu-late on Feb 4, 2011 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Its a prophylactic
I think people tend to get too obsessed with "slippery slopes." Because something happened once, it has to become a trend? No, it could also happen once.

The whole point of putting up a fight when something that could lead to a pattern being created, is to prevent it from becoming a slippery slope. Ill think more than twice about deleting a post in the future because of the shit storm that it caused, just like I imagine that you wouldn’t think that putting someone who isn’t a part of the community and you didn’t vet on the front page is no biggie because of this uprising.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 5, 2011 12:41 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Dan who do you like over there? I'll take another look.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 8:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Justin Bopp, the new blogfather, is quite good.

Daniel Moroz is always worth a read. So is J-Doug. And it goes without saying about Matt Klaassen and Jeff Zimmerman, who also write for Fangraphs.

by danmerqury on Feb 3, 2011 8:17 PM PST up reply actions  

So you're saying I had an 83.3% chance?

(Kidding, Dave!)

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 8:20 PM PST up reply actions  

OK I agree now, that I've looked specifically at those

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 8:31 PM PST up reply actions  

For some reason I missed this.

Im glad that you’re admitting that you screwed up. If I had seen this I would have taken a less aggressive tone, so I apologize that it might seemed that you tapped out and admitted responsibility and I kept punching you in the face. My bad on that.

That being said, you are the only person here that gets paid for their contributions here. The reason you give for that compensation is because you manage the blog. I would think that vetting applications for the front page would fall into that category, so while I understand the I was busy argument, you are also being paid to make this a priority.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 5, 2011 1:13 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Right -- it's the difference between an "excuse" and a "reason"

I offer no excuses if I defer to others and then it doesn’t work out. That’s on me because it’s where the buck stops.

The reality, however, is that sometimes AN becomes my “fourth job” (I have three others, one full time and two part-time/seasonal) and occasionally I simply can’t give AN the attention I’d ideally like to. Not often, but occasionally — and even then I’m still not going to offer being busy as an excuse for a “not on the ball decision,” but it might well be part of the reason.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 5, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Why because even with its being wholly factually inaccurate its a
Awesome first piece, Dave.

Youre selling out Dan

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 2, 2011 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I understand your concern.

And I understand my post was sub par. But that bodes well for you A’s fans. It means you guys are smarter than most other teams fans. And the criticism is motivation. So I’m going to try harder next week.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

It bodes well for A's fans

that a post was sub-par?

Yes, I THINK I know what you mean(t).

But.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions  

It's kind of ironic that he does use it.

Neyer’s first post was about the “us” vs. “them” factor in the writing world and how he chooses to break down that wall and doesn’t just want to be part of the community writing for, he’s actively trying to be a part of it. It’s weird to see a “front page writer” here take that tone that’s almost the polar opposite.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Feb 3, 2011 10:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 3, 2011 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

offensive?

sheesh

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't care

It seems like a waste of energy to be offended by something so inconsequential.

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 3, 2011 12:48 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Brad Ziegler had zero.

What was the guy’s name who did Minor League Mondays for a while? I think he also had zero. Rob Neyer has zero and can join the front page any time he wants. And if BBG emailed me and said, “ZOMG, this person who writes for Baseball America is amazing and wants to write occasional front page features for AN — this would be an awesome addition!” I would say yes. So context matters.

“Senator Gershman, you’re no Rob Neyer!”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

This saddens me.

I’m in the camp that community is more important than objective quality, to be honest. Not that I think the two are mutually exclusive; I just don’t really care if we get a solid writer who doesn’t engage the community. That’s part of the fun of SBN, that you get to engage the writers and participate in community with them. I can’t actually talk to Peter Gammons when he writes a piece, I can talk to anyone here.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 3, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions  

It saddens you that we'd take front page posts from Ziggy?

Look, we’re not talking about the daily writing crew. We’re talking about who might contribute an occasional feature to add to the mix. I’d love to have a feature from Rob Neyer every couple months, even if he never joined the discussions. In contrast, I would not have him be the “Tuesday and Thursday guy” if he weren’t part of the community.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 8:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Brad Ziegler is a Minor league baseball player and has unique experience.

Rob Neyer has a long history of outstanding writing. Baseball America has a long history of being a leader in the scouting community. What is this dude’s track record? Zilch.

After all the lectures that people on your side of the isle give people on my side of the isle about this being a community and not being about being right, this seems like a pretty huge betrayal of those community first principals.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 3, 2011 11:23 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

You're acting like Dave has been added to the daily crew

He hasn’t. Had he been, I’d agree with you, but he hasn’t. And if he can’t contribute quality material or the kind/level of posts you’d hope for from a “recommended BtB writer,” he won’t last even as an occasional feature writer.

Also, AN does not have aisles or assigned seating. You can actually blog from wherever you want.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 8:09 AM PST up reply actions  

SHINEE!!!!!!

What, sorry?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

lectures? Aisles?

I agree there is defiantly pissing matches between those who like to analyse things using data and those who wax nostalgic for the days when pitchers rubbed dirt on torn rotator cuffs, but come on.

Just say, it was a bad post, here is why (or just refer to PT’s post) and move on.
 NOthing more to see

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 4, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

As long as you don't write anything against Beltre,( who has refused to play for Oakland), you be alright.

Fan: "Yeah, whatever. You’re wrong." Stat guy: "No, you’re wrong." Fan: "Cool. Pass me a beer." Stat guy: "Here you go." Sigh, if only it was this easy.

by Tutu-late on Feb 2, 2011 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Woah woah woah, let's not get carried away.

Nobody wants to see me on the front page.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 8:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I would rec such an article

20 times, even if I had to create separate accounts each time.

by el generico on Feb 2, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions  

My BBQ is somewhat well known around here

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

A little more time

And you will know the stories of the BAG and the bacon-wrapped scallops. I’m just sad that I live too far away to partake of such things. . .

by el generico on Feb 2, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Iowa

pretty much says it all for me.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I strongly rec this:
To me, the post borders on an insult to this community. It is an unoriginal and condescending mess that shows an obvious lack of respect for what is routinely expressed on this forum.

If posts like this started appearing all the time Id stop contributing and reading AN.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 1, 2011 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I understand everything your saying.

And thank you for being honest. All I can do is try harder next week, which I’ll do. However, I want you to have at least a little bit of faith in me. I do know my baseball. I’m young, very young, but i have expierence in the blogosphere and the baseball world. So I’m just going to continue trying my hardest and comments like yours will only help me, so thank you.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 11:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Seriously Dave

think of it this way: they weren’t even mean to you, because they KNEW it was your first time.

As a front-page guy, you’d best have triplicate sources for every pov, or the next time, the board will be staring at your innards, debating whether or not the color of your kidneys has any meaning for the emergence of Michael Taylor.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh

I don’t think there’s much difference in the degree to which people will come down on poorly argued opinions. Certainly I’d hope there’s no difference in how I do it.

The difference is in the level of hostility accompanying that reaction…

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually think there's a huge difference

in the degree to which people will come down on poorly argued opinions. The difference being the level of hostility accompanying the comment.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

You're conflating niceness with substance

If an apparently earnest newbie comes in and articulately and politely argues something completely wrong, then articulate and polite people will refute it in a reasonable manner. But they’re not going to avoid disproving his points because it’s “his first time.”

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 10:06 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I know, my point is that

the delivery varies a lot from deliverer to deliverer. You can say, “I’m sorry, but that’s not accurate” or you can say, “You have no idea what you’re talking about.” Both may be true, and both get the same content across — one is just more civilized.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sorry, but that's not accurate

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm happy, but that's entirely accurate

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd highly recommend a spell checker, too.

I still want to kick DFA in the balls every time I read one of his awesome posts because he spells about as well as my 7 year old.

I know it’s just the internet, but punctuation, grammar, and spelling go a LONG way toward being taken seriously.

Lastly, and probably not quite as important, change your little picture thing. You have a friggin Yankee hat on.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I have a major thing

for correct spelling and grammar as well. Whenever I see one of my own (unchangeable) typo’s, I stare in horror and pray for indulgences.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

No, it should look like this:

BAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

With as many exclamation points a needed for added effect and emphasis.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 4, 2011 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

as needed

FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC…………………

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 4, 2011 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

i stand corrected gentzzzzzzz

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 4, 2011 8:15 AM PST up reply actions  

I always complain about it, I just ignore it cuzzzzz(!) I lof you

but I’m also naturally a pretty good speller for no apparent reason, so I don’t like to harp on spelling too much when a lot of people have trouble with spelling

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 8:12 AM PST up reply actions  

lof you back.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 5, 2011 1:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Actually I think you have done a good job lately

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 4, 2011 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

insult?

really?

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

wow, and I thought my welcome here was harsh...

though, that was back in the more tepid waters of AN’s beginning.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 1, 2011 10:29 PM PST reply actions  

Kotsay is still playing, Byrnes isn't :-P

"Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common." - Satchel Paige

by YonYonson on Feb 2, 2011 6:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I laughed out loud and spit tea everywhere.

All in good fun, FG22

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Feb 4, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

And actually, YonYon...

…Byrnes IS playing, but it’s softball…and for a bar…

Oh. I see what you did there. :-)

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Feb 4, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I'll be less harsh.

I don’t agree your analysis, but you clearly know your stuff (and just didn’t convey it in this post) and I have no doubt you’ll post some great stuff in the future. Welcome, and I look forward to your contributions!

"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime

by travdog6 on Feb 1, 2011 11:15 PM PST reply actions  

Thank you.

And I look forward to writing a better post next week. You guys deserve a good read. And the last thing I want to do is disapoint you guys.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I've gone back and read some of Dave's columns at BTBS, and they seem to be similar

in style as this one, but without the factual errors. He was billed as someone similar to Dan, but he really isn’t anywhere near as analytical. I think the wrong expectations were created when he was promoted that way. He seems to be more of a feature writer with a positive spin, which is fine if that’s what you’re expecting.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 1, 2011 11:40 PM PST reply actions  

Welcome to the site, Dave

I look forward to reading your work.

But seriously, folks....

by Mr. Brian on Feb 2, 2011 1:11 AM PST reply actions  

"Columnist"?

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 2, 2011 1:28 AM PST reply actions  

I think you hit it right on the head.

“Columnist” implies someone who mails it in once a week and maybe checks the comments once or twice afterwards.

However, many if not most of us here see ourselves as members of an online community in an interactive forum. No matter how good Mr. Gershman’s weekly front page articles are, they’re going to be meaningless if he’s not here participating in the comments from some of the other stories, game threads, DLD’s, and/or CT’s the other six days of the week. He’s either got to be a member of the community, or he’ll always be seen as an outsider foist upon us as filler, even if it’s good filler.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, welcome to AN Dave

as you can see, several of us are indeed available for children’s parties, Bar Mitzvahs and wakes.

Now you know why I stick to completely incoherent ramblings interpolated by completely non-sensical pictures, featuring the occasional reference to dangerous drugs and ridiculously obscure music, and do my level best not to stray too far into actual baseball analysis at any given time…. it just isn’t worth the years of Primal Scream Therapy I’d have to endure and the Thorazine I’d have to be prescribed would absolutely kill my sex drive.

Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.

by emperor nobody on Feb 2, 2011 2:51 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Your music isn't that obscure

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 2:53 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah, everybody's just rocking

those Van Der Graaf Generator and Czeslaw Niemen records these days.

Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.

by emperor nobody on Feb 2, 2011 2:57 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

OK you win, but only because you didn't pick Cat's Eye/Yellow Fever

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 4:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I was out walking in the evening

and I was looking for something good, clean, fine, pure, honest…straight.
But instead I found… Athletics Nation?

Is it sad that I know all the words to that song by heart?

Empires may crumble, FIP statistics may lose their meaning, but only a Keetsa mattress puts years back on your life while you're sleeping.

by emperor nobody on Feb 2, 2011 4:33 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a good honest song.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Carter-like struggles

Hopefully this is a case similar to Carter and Cardenas in that Dave is struggling as he moves up to the next level of writing. Writing for AN is the big leagues, hopefully he doesn’t have to go 0 for 38 before he gets a hit.

by RGiles on Feb 2, 2011 5:39 AM PST reply actions  

Welcome, Dave

It’s disappointing that so many people have attacked you. Unfortunately, that seems to be the nature of this site these days. I’m not knowledgeable enough to comment on whether there were factual inaccuracies (evidently there were) in your piece, but I can say that I think some people are being excessively brutal to you and your column. I appreciated the interesting read and hope you will continue to write for AN.

by Reg on Feb 2, 2011 11:23 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

Thanks you so much.

Whether they were right or wrong, they are entitled to their opinion, but it’s good to have someone like you to keep it real. thanks Reg.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd like to know how the rest of us aren't "keeping it real" please.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions  

.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Feb 2, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, my mistake.

What did it mean then?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

What IS real?

Is our entire human existance someone else’s dream?

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

There is no spoon.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Wonders never cease.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes,

but you are the “else” that’s dreaming. This “else” dreams EVERYTHING.

When you die, your data is filed away and your essence returns to “else”

When you’re born, new dada is downloaded and your essence emerges from “else” into a new dream.

Since we live in a fractal universe with a lot of binary subcomponents, smaller processes mimic larger processes, so we go to sleep and “dream” each day in honor/mimicry of on/off light/dark else/consciousness.

Quick, somebody elect me to the North Dakota senate!

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 1:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Freudian slip= new "dada" instead of new "data"

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

That is a pretty cool

Hunter Thompson-ish explanation of the meaning of it all.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

much older than that, my friend.

Hindu and Buddhist mystics have known it for thousands of years.

Native American shamans know it.

Lots of other people have figured it out, too. Plus, it allows you to take other things with a grain of salt, and have more experiences due to the ability to suspend disbelief for a while and go with the flow.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 2, 2011 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I'm actually

more a fan of quantum physics, string theory, and Christianity, but still, as a POV, “fractal universe wit ha lot of binary subcomponents” is pretty deep.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

string theory/quantum physics

would tell us that that those fractal based subcomponents are actually other universes in themselves, alternative realities, right?

by oakballnack on Feb 3, 2011 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorta.

I’m not very familiar with string, but from what I understand, it was the first attempt (along with quantum electrodynamics) to try to make quantum mechanics work with general relativity.

by danmerqury on Feb 3, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

right - that's my understanding, at least

in essence, we know this particle that starts at point A is in all probability going to end up at point B, but where is it when it isn’t at point A or point B

by oakballnack on Feb 3, 2011 6:19 PM PST up reply actions  

That's quantum mechanics, not string theory.

All of that probabilistic wave/particle stuff is quantum.

by danmerqury on Feb 3, 2011 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

nobody on AN...

understands quantum mechanics or string theory. I’ll dare them to try and explain it. It makes more sense to me than religion… that’s all I can say.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 3, 2011 9:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, I could explain it

but it would take a lot more than a short paragraph to get it done.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 4, 2011 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I just explained it

in an alternate AN somewhere else in the Multiverse. String theory, that is. Done.

by oakballnack on Feb 5, 2011 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

well done

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 6, 2011 8:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Although to watch some of our heroic

GM’s maneuvers, one does have to suspend disbelief and go with the flow. (No source for that, sorry.)

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Who's "attacked" anyone?

I haven’t seen one, unless you count the business about the Yankees hat.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

We clearly have a difference of opinion.

I assume you are suggesting that all of the mean-spirited posts in this thread are merely comments about the column and should therefore not be viewed as statements that are unnecessarily hostile or insulting to the author. I recognize also that we have a difference of opinion about your contributions to this site, which often take an academic tone that many here seem to appreciate and recommend with vigor. I, however, find your posts to be regularly condescending and rude and I am baffled by the degree of support for that kind of activity on AN.

by Reg on Feb 2, 2011 6:02 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Which is why

I ran for some salve for Dave right away, maybe. The exception proves the rule: PT was analytical, as usual, but hardly scathing.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, PT's comments weren't the embarrassing ones IMO.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Ooh ooh which ones were? NAME NAMES DAMMIT

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 2, 2011 8:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid

You’ll have to decide for yourselves on that one.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 8:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Eh?

We need to decide for ourselves what you found offensive? I find it difficult enough to always know what’s going on in my own head, I’m not going to start trying to figure out what’s going in anyone else’s mind.

by el generico on Feb 3, 2011 8:20 AM PST up reply actions  

If you find these sorts of comments to be "attacks", then I can understand why someone so hypersensitive would find me off-putting

Fortunately, I don’t care.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I guess at some point,

it might be useful to determine whether one person is hypersensitive or if the other is an asshole.

by Reg on Feb 3, 2011 5:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Why does it have to be one or the other?

We’re all assholes sometimes, and some of us are hypersensitive, too.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 4:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I've actually been clinically diagnosed as having a hypersensitive asshole

I’m not kidding. (Which is not to say that it’s not funny.)

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 3, 2011 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I really wanted to make that my new sigline

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Uroxatral?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Feb 3, 2011 10:52 PM PST up reply actions  

You need more fiber in your diet

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 4, 2011 8:07 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 4, 2011 8:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Can't stop laughing.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Feb 4, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

(For the record, in this case, I go with hypersensitive)

Just making a joke below.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

...above

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

In this case I'm going with hypersensitive

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 8:29 AM PST up reply actions  

My thoughts, as if people really care about what I say...

I appreciate the effort, but agree with a lot of people here that this is just a bad article. A lot of errors and not many facts to back up your opinions. It’s too “pie in the sky” for me. I’m also confused about your team allegiance. You call the team we all love your “beloved A’s”, but there’s nothing to support that. In fact, on your mlb.com blog thingy you say this:

I don’t have a favorite team, in fact I have 30 favorite teams.

LINK: http://denardspanfan.mlblogs.com/about.html

I enjoy AN because it’s content is provided by true fans who love the A’s with all their hearts. To me, it doesn’t look like you do. I could be totally off base, but all I can go off of is what I read and see. The fact that you’re wearing a Yankee hat has been beat into the ground, but for good reason. It raises a ton of questions.

You also say this on your mlb.com blog:

Most of the Baseball fans I talk to are on MLBTradeRumors.com which is a great website if you are a Baseball fan. I encourage everyone to check it out.

Really??

Anyways, I hope you can write better articles in the future because it seems like you’ll be a front page contributor.

by Kyle_B on Feb 2, 2011 1:10 PM PST reply actions  

I didn't really have a problem with Dave

until you say he says MLBTradeRumors.com is a great website. Fifty lashes for that one, I say.

Even if it IS an opinion.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sorry

but none of this makes any sense. There’s there’s a post on there from January 11th. Yes, this is almost a month, but it’s still very recent. And if you don’t use it, why is it the second link listed in your signature? Less than 2 months ago (December 20th, 2010) you posted a story called “A Royals Fan from NY”:

LINK: http://denardspanfan.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/12/a-royals-fan-from-ny.html

Like I said in my initial post, my favorite thing about AN is that the content, especially the FP content, comes from loyal passionate A’s fans. From what I’ve seen, you do not seem to be a loyal passionate A’s fan. AND THAT’S TOTALLY FINE!! I would respect your writing so much more if you came in and said “Hey, I’m a Royals fan who really likes the A’s and I’d like to offer my opinion on some prospects” instead of calling the team your “beloved A’s”.

I come from the old school way of thinking that you have one team you root for and that’s it. It’s all or nothing, no second favorite teams. It’s clear that you don’t have the same thought process and like I said, that’s totally cool. I just feel like you are coming here under the guise that you are this die hard A’s when several things point to the contrary.

by Kyle_B on Feb 2, 2011 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

And the Yankees?

The only time I’ll cheer for a non-AL team in the WS is when the Yankees are the AL rep.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

or the Red Sox

they try to act like the Yankees are Darth Vader, and they are poor humble Luke Skywalker, so we should all root for the Sox when, in actuality, the Red Sox are filthy rich. They are kind of like that rich kid from high school who wants to seem poor so they can fit in with “the guys.” At least the Yankees are upfront about being greedy assholes.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I have a lot of RSN buddies.

I like to tease them about struggling along with a $120-million payroll. They like to tease me about getting to Oakland finally and meeting the other A’s fan.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 6:29 PM PST up reply actions  

First of all, I was the first to report the Taylor Tankersley deal, which I HAD to post on some blog, and in order to not mess up the future of BtB barring I was wrong, I put the full Tankersley story on SPANdemonium

Also, True Story

I was in SF in early January, and we visited friends in Oakland. She took me to the colliseum, around the city, to Martinez, Contra Costa, and I realized how much I love the A’s. I love the A’s.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't understand.

Listen, you guys gave me constructive criticism in my opinion. Do I like all of the things you guys said? No. Do I feel bad about this? Absolutley, but you’ve got to understand that I’m just going to try and do a better post the next time. I’m sorry for the way this turned out but you guys are making it seem like I’m really upset by your criticism, when it’s in fact motivating me.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

nothing to do but to do it

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 2, 2011 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Look, I'll lay it out for you.

I feel bad for the way this has turned out, and I don’t think its your fault. You were billed as an expert of sorts, and the bar was set high. We were ambitious. You came in and gave a quick scouting report, which didn’t measure up to the standards set by the other front page writers. It takes a lot for a fanpost to get promoted to the front page here, and to see a writer who is unknown to AN (and now revealed to be a brand new fan) be given a slot on the front page (even if its as a fill in) without really any history as an A’s fan upset a lot of people. Again, I don’t think its your fault, and I’m confident you do have every intention of improving the quality of posts in the future, but the circumstances surrounding this whole affair just prove that pretty much all the chips are stacked against you at this point, and I feel bad about it.

Best you can do is do your best, which I know you’ve been saying you’ll do this whole time and I appreciate it.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 2, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Thank you Rebuilding Season

And I really appreciate it. And understand. But the thing is, the reason I feel so bad, is because I know I can do better than this, and I really look forward to earning the respect of you guys. And you know what? It shows a lot for you guys to critisize this, because it means you know your baseball. If you didn’t, than you’d just say “okay, good to know. thanks dave.”

And tell you guys what, by next post, you’ll see me in an A’s hat. No worries.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 5:12 PM PST up reply actions  

It feels like there are a few cases in this entire post where you're trying a little too hard to make up for the initial stuff that happened

My advice, take it or leave it, is that while you work on whatever your next topic ends up being, get involved here. Comment on other stuff as you see fit, but don’t be a stranger who only posts once in a while.

Let people find out a little more about you without you having to force any explanations you’ve got because you might be on the defensive at the moment. I don’t think anything will be held against you, nor should it be, but you are going to have some people looking much more closely at the things you say because you’re the new guy around here no matter what your reputation might be elsewhere. You’re still an unknown to AN and everyone has to go through that when they start out.

I figure if you know your stuff and you settle in here, things will be fine in the long run. It’s important to have a thick skin, too. That’s just my opinion, though.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 5:25 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I guess I understand

I’m glad you love the A’s, but I hope you understand my skepticism. Seeing a Yankee hat and reading that you were a Royals fan troubled me a bit. Now I know that you’ve been an A’s fan since early January. You’re obviously very new to being an A’s fan and I hope your love continues to grow. Personally, I cannot imagine just one day realizing I love a sports team. There’s so much that goes into my passion for the A’s. You need to understand that this team is something that I have loved as long as I can remember and because of that I can be very protective of them.

Good luck with your writing.

by Kyle_B on Feb 2, 2011 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point

I have been supporting the Dave, but love for a sports team takes at least two years to develop into something real. I too can not imagine loving another team in the matter of a couple of months

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Kyle_B you didn't read what I said

I didn’t say I realized that I love the A’s, I said I realized HOW MUCH I love the A’s. I’ve always loved the A’s. I’ve always followed the A’s, and I know some of their players. I’m an A’s fan.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

One and the same

I admit that I misunderstood what you wrote, but I still feel pretty much the same way. Again, as a grown adult, I cannot imagine one day just realizing how much I love a team. The reason for this is because the A’s have been my favorite baseball team my entire life and they are the only team I’ve ever rooted for. Less than 2 months ago you stated on your blog that you’re a Royals fan living in NY, so your integrity as a fan is suspect in my eyes.

Either way, welcome to the community and I hope you can improve your contributions to the site.

by Kyle_B on Feb 2, 2011 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I hear you.

And thanks. I want to do my best. And I know it’s going to take a lot to earn the respect of you guys, and I’m going to do my best to write good stuff so that’ll happen.

by Dave Gershman on Feb 2, 2011 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like the piling on

and I do think some of the comments were too harsh, but I understand why it went that direction. Dave, we don’t expect you to be perfect, and appreciate your desire to contribute to the blog, and I look forward to improved articles in the future. That said, I think part of the problem is that the tone of the article came off as someone wanting to make a good impression by being “in the know”, but the factual errors combined with the sometimes difficult-to-read sentences made it feel artificial. I appreciate your willingness to engage with posters eventually, and I hope you continue to do so. I know that I have learned a lot more by interacting with the regulars here than I ever would have otherwise.
Best of luck on the new writing gig.

by el generico on Feb 2, 2011 1:22 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

We need to offer up a trade to Halos Haven

Would we be willing to trade Susan Slusser or possibly Michael Urban for Neyer?

I think this merits serious consideration.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Feb 2, 2011 2:24 PM PST reply actions  

Urban for Neyer

maybe. You don’t want to get rid of Slusser; in the event of an end-of-world scenario, you’ll need breeding pairs.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 2, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

No way on Slusser

her VORW is through the roof.

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

We all have to make tough decisions

Remember, What would Billy Do?

We might be able to get Neyer before his price tag gets too high and we should act accordingly.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Feb 2, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Tottenham, yeah!

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Feb 2, 2011 5:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I saw the Fulham match. Yikes.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 7:03 PM PST up reply actions  

That was awesome. 4-0. Awesome.

At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.

by the_rozeboom on Feb 2, 2011 11:19 PM PST up reply actions  

This is like the Sidd Finch story, right?

I mean the whole creation of “Dave Gershman.”

It’s not for real, right?

by RLangford on Feb 2, 2011 4:05 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

REV H'S GAMED AN

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 2, 2011 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Think about it:

If you wanted to perpetrate a hoax at AN, this is exactly what you would do:

1. Bring in a new front pager out of nowhere.
2. Begin w/ unsupported analysis about a subject many study closely and deeply care about.
3. Include substandard writing.
4. Mix in a Yankee’s hat.
5. Top it off with flippant dismissiveness of credible and highly-respected critics.

Given the mystery surrounding Gershman, I await being convinced this isn’t what happened.

by RLangford on Feb 2, 2011 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Or even January!

Though it being February 2nd, sadly this post will run on the front page every day forever.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 2, 2011 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought April was Cindi's pal

Maybe it is April, after all.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 2, 2011 6:19 PM PST up reply actions  

All you need is one rogue mod

1. Ban all the front page writers and managers including yourself
2. ????
3. Profit

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Feb 3, 2011 2:10 AM PST up reply actions  

He is a "Dr." after all.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Feb 2, 2011 5:15 PM PST reply actions  

Man after reading all these comments ripping the OP..

All I can think is.. “When did this place become so elitist”? Give him a break, he did his best. Some people disagree with what he wrote but he wasnt super off base.

"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein

by Syphon on Feb 2, 2011 8:22 PM PST reply actions   3 recs

I did try to give him a break, but I don't blame those who criticize him for not doing so.

And even he admits he didn’t do his best.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 2, 2011 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I got nothing against constructive criticism.

But some responses seemed to be way to harsh.

"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein

by Syphon on Feb 2, 2011 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

What's hilarious is how much MORE populist and anti-intellectual this site has become in the three and a half years since I started posting here

Whatever the cause, and people can form whatever opinion they feel like as to what it was, the level of discussions has dropped. It’s like comparing Rome in the time of Augustus to Rome in 450 AD. (Though, I suppose even making that analogy immediately brands me as an Elitist Bourgeois Latte Drinker in the eyes of some… well, trust me, I’m not unaware of the irony.) It’s not that the city is completely overrun by illiterates, or something, but the quality of discourse has seen better days.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 2, 2011 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Is it really that big a deal?

Nobody has any control over the greater direction the site goes in. You can’t force people to meet the standards you want – not that I’m suggesting you’re trying to – and it goes the same way in the other direction.

I don’t see why people can’t coexist with the intellectual side and the non-intellectual side (or, more accurately, the not-as-intellectual side) both having room to operate. The only time it seems to turn into a problem is when people argue about what AN should or shouldn’t be or complain that it’s not what they think it should be.

Compared to most fansites, the average visitor would probably say AN is still one of the most intellectual A’s sites out there, if not #1. That’s just the nature of fansites in general compared to, say, a blog where you can control the direction you want it to go in.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 2, 2011 10:26 PM PST up reply actions  

If it was that big a deal, I wouldn't still be here

I’m just saying the complaint is ironic given the history of the site.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 3, 2011 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh

This place has all forms of negative, annoying reactions to various things at one time or another, whether it’s elitism, snobbery, rude behavior, willful ignorance, lack of intelligence, you name it. Can’t avoid it. I still don’t know of any better A’s fansites out there.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 3, 2011 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Come on

PaulThomas, I hate to break it to you, but you aren’t any smarter than me or the large majority of people on this site. Whether or not you are aware of the irony of being called a snob and then acting like an elitist prick is, frankly, irrelevant. You should understand that we can all be wrong, but we all just want to give an opinion about the A’s. I didn’t mind your criticisim of Dave, actually I applaud you for your A’s knowledge, but I just don’t like how you think that you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is an anti-intellectual or at least not as intelligent as you. Being polite will make your point come across better as well, so just, please, take it down a notch.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

no, probably not

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Idunno

I’m definitely down with the notion that some people are just smarter than others; natural intellect, more time spent honing that intellect, etc. People who are in positions that require a high intellect are probably smarter than me (Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, etc.)

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 2, 2011 10:51 PM PST up reply actions  

lawyers aren't necessarily smarter

PT is smarter. PT is not a lawyer.

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 11:52 PM PST up reply actions  

is he smarter than Einstein?

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:54 PM PST up reply actions  

absolutely.

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 11:55 PM PST up reply actions  

wow, he is smart!

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I assume you are referring to the famous scientist, Albert Einstein.

You know he is dead right?

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 3, 2011 12:03 AM PST up reply actions  

oh, did I put that in the present tense?

See… I’m not that smart.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 3, 2011 12:18 AM PST up reply actions  

That doesn't make him smarter neccessarily

there are different kinds of intelligence. He probably knows more about the law and he may make more money than you, but that doesn’t make him a smarter person.

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 2, 2011 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Being a lawyer, to me, shows more than that:

1) He’s very articulate.
2) He’s extremely good at arguing his points.
3) He’s accomplished at pouring over vast, sometimes archaic, stores of knowledge to find data.
4) He has the follow through and diligence to pursue long term, difficult goals like Law School.

Those are all things that mark an intelligent person to me.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 2, 2011 10:54 PM PST up reply actions  

see how smart you are!

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm with you on that...

PT is a “smart” guy. And, he’s mostly right about A’s players. He’s hugely wrong about the wisdom of choosing this front page writer. Look at the number of comments on his first post. LOL

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm with you on that...

PT is a “smart” guy. And, he’s mostly right about A’s players. He’s hugely wrong about the wisdom of choosing this front page writer. Look at the number of comments on his first post. LOL

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:11 PM PST up reply actions  

really? you don't know Nico very well...

neither do I, actually, but he rather strikes me as a meta kinda guy.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:16 PM PST up reply actions  

and, it is kinda his job, too

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm probably just full of shit...

so, please don’t leave.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I won't.

There would have to be some seriously surreal tell-all state of the union stuff (but outright refusal to change) in order to make me flat out leave out of disgust.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 2, 2011 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd say something...

but, I don’t want a strike for being political. ;-)

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I HATE meta, for the record.

It bores the hell out of me.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions  

The sunshine bores the daylights out of me

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I am bored by the sun rising...

nevertheless, I am enthralled by the likelihood of suns rising over billions of other earth-like planets. We are often bored by the mundane yet not fully understood.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 3, 2011 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Getting bored hurts

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I got a little bored with AN...

I have to admit. And, it did kinda hurt. So, I’m back.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 3, 2011 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Loud Family do an excellent cover of that

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 4, 2011 8:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Loud Family are awesome.

“Don’t Respond, She Can Tell” is one of my favorite indie-pop songs ever.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 4, 2011 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

The snippet I heard is OK, but I'm a Stones

fanatic so nothing will be good enough

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 4, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

none of these things are necessarily true of lawyers

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 2, 2011 11:53 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Another way of looking at

the idea is that Beane’s stat-head approach has the A’s playing ball better than the worst and worse that the better, to the tune of not-so-hot insofar as records, playoff berths, and attendance are concerned. Quite frankly, it is really difficult to be enamored with carefully analyzing whether the A’s will win 74, 78, or 84 games any given year.

I don’t think I’ve been off my “wins” projections more than 3-4 games for any given year over the past decade, and I spend about (hyperbole alert) 4 minutes per year looking at all the various WAR, VORP, FIP, etc stats one can zone out over.

The fact is, taken as a whole, and discounting major disruptions, the past will project the future. For every player who “regresses to the mean” you’ll find one who “exceeds expectations” and vice verse.

Etc.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 3, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

.
For every player who "regresses to the mean" you’ll find one who "exceeds expectations" and vice verse.

That is entirely not true. Many, many more players regress to the mean than exceed expectations. That’s why we regress to the mean in the first place.

by danmerqury on Feb 3, 2011 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey, are you accusing me of regressing to the mean?

I just get worse and worse every year. That’s why I’m considered an (out and)outlier.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

There I go

speaking in absolutes again. But no, “many many more” can’t regress, because that would presume “many many more” exceeded expectations, which isn’t accurate either, or we wouldn’t have a mean in the first place.

Isn’t this literal stuff fun?

by Omnipotent One on Feb 4, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I disagree with you on this, Dan.

That is, I don’t think it is false that for each player that regresses to the mean, another player does not. But since I know you know better, I assume we must be misunderstanding each other and this is just semantics.

Individual outliers can be expected to regress to the mean, but the population as a whole cannot. If it could, that would imply that variation within the population steadily decreases with each new test, which is clearly false. The solution to the equation is that many of those individuals who are already near or at the mean are going to deviate further from it on a second test.

The concept of regressing to the mean gets tossed around a lot here, and I sense that most readers and even some who cite it don’t really totally get it. It also confuses things that in baseball we’re usually discussing numbers which are averages over an entire season (or career or whatever), in which case the apparent regression is simply the increase in accuracy due to a larger sample. Often when people point to regression they’re really referring to that, which isn’t regression at all, though it looks like it.

I wish I had more free time, so I could put together a good explanatory essay on it. Eh, maybe some day.

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings; / Our meddling intellect
Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:— / We murder to dissect.

by iglew on Feb 5, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't see how your response is any less prickish

And I’d posit that it misses the entire point. PT is right—the level of discourse has deteriorated. Whether Paul thinks he’s better than the rest of us is immaterial.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm profoundly confused

by the way some people seem to have a problem with “thinking that you’re right.”

If I didn’t think I was right about belief x, I would not hold belief x. It’s that simple. Now, sure, just as a matter of probability, it’s very likely that some of the beliefs that I hold are bad/dumb/wrong/whatever, but if I knew which ones they were, I wouldn’t believe them anymore. So, yes, I believe that all the things that I believe to be true, are true. That’s little more than saying that I’m not suffering from split-personality (which is the only way I can think of that one could hold a good-faith belief and simultaneously hold the view that that belief is incorrect).

As for this

everyone who disagrees with you is an anti-intellectual or at least not as intelligent as you

it’s quite obviously false, so frankly it would be nice if you wouldn’t say false things about me. FIrst example off the top of my head: I disagree with Mitchel Lichtmann (one of the authors of The Book) about the utility of certain golf rules. Mitchel Lichtmann is quite obviously a great deal smarter than I am and is the living definition of an intellectual. Still wrong about golf rules, though.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 3, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

For the record, I agree with you here

I do want to point out that perhaps what people are trying to say isn’t so much that you shouldn’t think you’re right. There are certain rules of social etiquette (of which I’m sure you’re aware) that are followed more closely outside of the message board world, which hold that it’s not always good to say you’re right or tell someone they’re wrong, even if you are right and they are wrong. Some people value relationships over a pursuit of the “truth” (small ‘t’), especially on a baseball message board—and would rather be happy and “wrong”. I think that’s possibly where some of these people stand. They couldn’t care less whether they’re wrong or not (and in fact might not even think there is a right or wrong), they just want a place where they can talk about baseball and not feel like they have to back everything up.

Not everybody feels this way, however, and there needs to be some give and take from both sides, because all should be welcome.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 5:18 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

How do you engage others in a discussion about your opinions if they're not

supposed to challenge you when they disagree, or when you have the facts wrong. The following conversation seems idiotic to me:

A: Albert Pujols sucks

B: (hmm…this guy’s an idiot but it would be rude of me to say so or to point to evidence that he’s wrong). But he looks good in Cardinal Red!

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 6:42 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Hey, I agree with you

And it’s not made any easier by people calling others out as “elitists”. But some people just don’t want to have to put the effort into defending a position, either because they can’t or because they see it as a waste of time.

I’m not saying that’s right—and if they’re going to be forceful about their opinions (with comments like “Pujols sucks”), they’d better be willing to back them up.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 7:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that some people assume people are going to agree with them (possibly because they haven't thought out their position)

And others want to inject a contrary opinion even if they can’t back it up. I’m certainly not one of those people, and that often bugs the heck out of me.

Others, I’d imagine, just want to have a positive outlook on their team, since the sport is an escape (and don’t want all the realists to rain on their parade). Perhaps they’re wasting their time—and at best, they’re probably wrong.

But hey—I agree. Why post to a message board if you’re not willing to hear alternate opinions? Seems like a waste of time (might as well just go shout your opinions into a canyon or something).

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 4, 2011 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

(might as well just go shout your opinions into a canyon or something)

That’s a good way to hear lots of agreement.

I’d worry if you heard anything else with that method.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Feb 4, 2011 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Let me clarify

Some people see a positive or negative outlook on a player as one of many outlooks, and either don’t trust in the predictive ability of stats or don’t understand stats well enough to make an opinion based on more than their eyeballs and wishes. Those people are probably more likely to be wrong when it comes to predicting performance. But they want positive fluff pieces because they don’t always need or expect deeper analysis to make opinions about players of a game. And because they don’t understand the stats, they get frustrated when someone is bluntly adamant about the future performance of a player which, based on the extreme hit-or-miss nature of sports prospects, is up in the air.

Some people just don’t know enough. Those that don’t know and engage the PTs and DFAs of the world with sharpness deserve to be cut into. But some people just don’t want to have to “engage in a debate” about the future of baseball players. They want their escape into the world of sports to be an escape.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 7:18 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

They may want that, but then the resultant discussion is idiotic to read

It’s like reading the comments on Youtube. I don’t see a site like that getting a lot of stickiness…without the actual videos.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

AN, due to its size, will always have lots of posters, whether the discourse is intelligent or youtube-comment-level

Unfortunately, in the last 3 years, it’s become a lot more like that, and a lot less like what you and I would like it to be.

I agree that the resultant discussion would be idiotic, which is why many people don’t post here any more.

That said, there’s also a fine line between explaining why someone’s wrong and insulting someone’s intelligence. It’s a line that guys like Dan and sal are quite good at. I’m not saying that people who aren’t nice can’t coexist with the non-stat types—just that they should expect some push back from the people they’re correcting, and not seem so flummoxed by it.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

"Nobody comes here anymore -- it's too crowded."

-Yogi Berra.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 8:01 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Cute

But by size I mean internet presence, not amount of posters.

SBN is huge now, and gets lots of exposure. It’s no wonder more casual fans come on AN and post things that are erroneous or shallow. Most baseball fans probably don’t know much about stats as the average long-term ANer, who knows less about stats than the PTs, sals, and andeuxs of the world.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 8:15 PM PST up reply actions  

To be clear, I'm perfectly fine with the way the site is now. I'm just

defending those who are critical of less than interesting comments from the charge of elitism and assholishness.

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 3, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Well I'm not fine with the site the way it is now.

I’d like it if I would just shut up, but do I? Nooooooo.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

You could always flee to Byzantium

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 3, 2011 5:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Nah. The plumbing sucks there.

Plus there’s this crazy-ass ginger dude standing on top of the mountain shouting down complicated jokes that the citizens smile and nod and pretend to understand.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2011 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

But there's iconostasis

And politics. And swearing.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 3, 2011 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's true.

Maybe I’ll visit sometime soon,

carrying a placard with four seemingly unrelated pictures on it and a stolen Salvation Army donation can.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 3, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe then you can explain what the heck Quality Jones is

Because I’ve spent way too much of my own time wondering.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The answer will most likely be disappointing.

“Quality Jones” is a fictional character / stage alias of The Reverend Billy Lard (ULC).

The “story” behind Quality Jones is that he’s the #1 pop star in Belgium (that’s why nobody’s heard of him!) and he’s sort of like an insane awkward overgrown juvenile version of “The Most Interesting Man In The World,” and he spends his spare time organizing lavish sex junkets around the world, focused on panty raids.

The idea that this big star is stuck in a juvenile fetishistic form of sexual expression (stealing/buying peoples’ underwear) leads to a lot of fun jokes and also represents our opinion that humanity as a whole in a lot of respects is still very immature in its’ sexual mores and behaviors.

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 4, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

This is the best response ever. Definitely not disappointed I asked.

Thanks.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 4, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

And mass riots by gangs of chariot-racing hooligans

On second thoughts, maybe that’s not such a great thing.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 3, 2011 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

The level of mass riots by gangs of chariot-racing hooligans has deteriorated.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 3, 2011 4:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Harlot-racing chooigans, however, are on the rise

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Harlan Ellisoning Khachigians?

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Feb 3, 2011 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

****

Harriet-chasing rule-agains?

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Feb 3, 2011 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

In college, I played kazoo for The Chariot Racing Hooligans

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 8:23 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well, as first time front page writers go...

I’d have to say this debut was fabulous!!! And, as usual, I disagree with PT.

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 10:25 PM PST reply actions  

Count me as not liking this whole intellectual vs non-intellectual thing.

Enjoying baseball stats more than someone else doesn’t make you an intellectual.

Bloom and I are two of the biggest goofballs on this site and we both have multiple degrees on our wall so I’m pretty sure just because we try to have fun doesn’t mean we’re stupid.

But seriously, folks....

by Mr. Brian on Feb 2, 2011 11:34 PM PST reply actions   4 recs

wait, I'm confused... goofballs, multiple degrees...

fun and stupid? Are you intellectual or non-intellectual? haha

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 2, 2011 11:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

whether you have a Phd or you didn’t pass high school, we all care about the A’s. That is all that matters. Even when I disagree with people, I still see you as a kind of friend because we all know that the A’s don’t have the most worldwide fans. Sorry if I cam across as rude. I was a little upset, but I am over it now

by Rygoslinglover on Feb 3, 2011 12:41 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

It's "people who like us vs. them" vs. "people who don't"!

Which side are you on — you must choose!!!!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 3, 2011 7:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I translate PT's epic statistical arguments to my a's friends at home

in the most interesting of ways. You’re a local legend round my house PT.

Resident Smartass.
and my residency is Blazersedge.com

by Devyn on Feb 3, 2011 1:08 AM PST reply actions  

This one was clearly tl/dr but it had essentially nothing to do with statistics...

The only reason it’s even been mentioned on this thread is the evident inability of some to distinguish the concepts a. “sabermetrically minded poster,” b. “person who desires an evidentiary basis for factual claims,” and c. “asshole.”

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Feb 3, 2011 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Those aren't mutually exclusive

But generally speaking you’ve been tame here.

by DrDoom on Feb 3, 2011 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Just caught up here

It’s not a good sign when a new front page writer loses me in his very first sentence. A columnist?

Yeah, some of the comments have been a little harsh, but I’ve agreed with most of the sentiment, if not always the tone. The views of cheery A’s fans get scrutinized. There is every reason for people to expect more of someone who it touted as an expert on the front page. When it appears that he has misrepresented himself, that doesn’t help either.

by bear88 on Feb 3, 2011 11:44 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

No. Fucking. Kidding.

This was the other huge problem with this piece; the author didn’t participate other than being an ass. The post to comment ratio hes got is terribad.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 4, 2011 7:52 AM PST up reply actions  

You know, you're one for saying someone is an ass.

And you know how you hate it when people pile on you? Look in the mirror.

by LoneStranger on Feb 4, 2011 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

um, we're hazing the new guy. c'mon.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 4, 2011 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

You too, huh?

The idea of a “hiring” being poorly thought-through (or not thought through), a post being sub-standard, and civil/respectful commentary are NOT mutually exclusive.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Meh. If I published crap like this on the front page I hope I'd get tarred and feathered

You can either be right and be an ass or wrong and nice. You don’t get to be wrong and an ass. Luckily, I fall into the first category the vast vast majority of the time.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 4, 2011 5:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

In your opinion, anyway.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

How do you know he didn't mean that you aren't an ass?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 4, 2011 7:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Olklay. LI'm hlldng m'tongue. Nal lhat?

I think your notion that the A’s had a “horrible off-season” is laughably wrong. And I think the A’s pitching is a lot more solid than you think it is.

I will now show this through interpretive dance:

 -/—-^ //——
  ——-^^ {trips over foot and sprains liver}

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 7:41 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Well, technically that is an opinion so it can't really be "wrong"

we will never know what the A’s internal info was saying so we can’t really judge.

He has been wrong before. He admitted it a few times.

Does that count?

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 4, 2011 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Personally, I don't really care much about "right" and "wrong"

I don’t talk baseball on AN to be right; I talk baseball on AN because baseball is interesting to talk about, especially with interesting people.

But there’s a huge difference between being “right a lot,” and “thinking you’re right a lot,” just as there’s a huge difference between “being wrong” and “being able to use available data to prove something wrong.”

For example, no one the hell knows how good a pitcher Trevor Cahill was last year, or how good he’ll be this year — and we never will. We’ll just debate it forever, citing the data we think supports our case.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 8:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I am going to remain silent on Cahill

but, yeah, you are right. Caring so much about being right is not something I care about or think is particularly productive.

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 4, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

To me, the important thing on Cahill

is not the debate itself (“he was very good” “no he wasn’t”), but rather the humility piece: We all really don’t know squat about how good he was, is, or will be. That’s the only thing I’m sure about.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 8:49 PM PST up reply actions  

are we sure how good Albert Pujols was, is...

or will be?

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Feb 4, 2011 8:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Some guys are certainly easier to agree on than others.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

or is he talking about a front page post?

that’s unprovable. so its silly to talk about

I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"

by Future Ed on Feb 4, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

There is absolutely no evidence to support that this was a good offseason or that the rotation is good.

Zips for example thinks its worse than I do.

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 5, 2011 1:25 AM PST up reply actions  

So, being right and being nice are mutually exclusive?

If that’s what you truly believe, no wonder to try to be an ass all the time.

by LoneStranger on Feb 4, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

My gosh, we really are a pack of rabid wolves.

He’s said plenty of times in this thread that he’s going to try his hardest in the next thread and he’s sorry this post wasn’t up to snuff. Can we please just let it go now and play wait and see for a little bit?

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 4, 2011 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Everyone needs to let it go.

The guy apologizes profusely for the post, then makes one semi-snarky post and people just leap on him. It seems to me people are just waiting for him to say anything remotely resembling sass in order to tear him apart. Is it really that big a deal that he called himself a columnist? I mean, I agree, I don’t like the decision either to bring on an unknown, but at this point people we need to give him a break. Let him try again and let’s go from there. If you want to voice your displeasure with anyone, email Nico.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 4, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree with that.

but mostly because the of the circumstances surrounding this entire debacle.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 4, 2011 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

I expect us to give him a chance.

Someone called him out on a miniscule issue, and he got a little snarky. We all get a little snarky; its part of being in an online community. At this point we’re just clawing away at whatever shred of imperfection we can find.

At this point everyone involved knows how poorly the community feels about this move. The mob mentality involved with persecuting this guy is disgusting.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 4, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

When you get bombarded on all sides by people who, it seems, only want your blood, sometimes you say things you probably shouldn't.

Look, I understand his article was sub-par for what we expect from someone who posts on the front page. Like Nico said, however, this guy isn’t in the regular rotation. He’s a fill-in. Should Nico have done better research? Maybe. Did he rely on his team? Sure. My manager does that all the time. He asks people he trusts when he doesn’t have enough information to make the decision himself. Was it a bad idea? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Groups need new blood in order to promote healthy growth and bring different ideas.

Could Dave have had a better response? Yes. Are there plenty of times when regular ANers post stuff and respond in a negative way when someone criticizes? Yes, there have been.

Would I have done it differently? Hindsight is 20/20. Dave should have probably been asked to participate for half a year or so before being instilled as a super-sub. Doesn’t mean that his pieces couldn’t be selected for the front page like many fanposts are. At that point the pressure would have been reduced for Dave while he got his feet wet.

I don’t mind meta quite as much as a lot of people but here we are, four days later and we’re STILL talking about it. If I were Dave, I’d be working real hard on a new article to publish ASAP so we can move on past this.

by LoneStranger on Feb 4, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

for rebuilding season and lonestranger. is there something wrong with bear 88's post? i don't think there is. if i were dave, i wouldn't have posted the reply he did. what was he expecting to have happen?

flowers and chocolate? of course, somebody was gonna jump down his throat.

i will not judge his next piece more harshly or less harshly because of this whole piece. and i think most have said that they’ll give his next post due consideration.

but if he continues to fight the last battle with snark, then he will get snark back.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 4, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions  

All he's seen come his way is snark.

Something wrong with Bear88’s post? I think his writer/columnist thing was nitpicky, but other than that, its piling on, but nothing that bad. I’m more concerned with the responses to snark. People just need to stop giving DG so much guff when they really disagree with the idea that he’s a poster.

Look, the guy wants to be read, so he asked if he could be a front page poster. Nico gave him a shot. If you disagree with that, your beef is with Nico. If your beef is with the quality of the writing, then give him another chance before we tear him apart.

by Rebuilding Season on Feb 4, 2011 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, sometimes too much meta is too much.

however, it’s not very often that new FP writers come along, so thinking that it’s just going to be talked about for a couple hours and then left alone is probably erroneous.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

many of the recent posts have been a recipe for meta discussions however.

i like nico’s recent post on the roster, but it’s a recipe for meta discussion. until the games begin or further roster discussions get made, meta is what you’re gonna get.

the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust

by stm72 on Feb 4, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Meta doesn't bother me though.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 10:57 AM PST up reply actions  

RIght. You guys are confusing separate issues

I CLEARLY messed up by bringing someone on, from outside AN, based solely on the name of the place they wrote and a couple endorsements. There is no way around the fact that if I wanted to know how stat-based his columns were or what his writing and level of A’s-fandom were like, I should have waited until I had the time to do so. Stop venting at Dave for that.

Now was I misled? Quite possibly. Did I get good advice from others? Quite possibly not. But the decision to let him write a guest column or three is on me, period, and on this one I take full responsibility for what I would say was a MINOR blunder that won’t be repeated.

Separately, if this is the best Dave can do to convince me he’s an A’s fan who knows a lot about the A’s and has the personality to ignore criticism, this relationship will not last long. If he writes something brilliant next time (if there’s a next time), that’s great.

Also separately, some people need to learn how to express themselves in a civilized and adult matter, even when they’re right.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Tagline.
Athletics Nation: Some people need to learn how to express themselves in a civilized and adult matter, even when they’re right.

by LoneStranger on Feb 4, 2011 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a shame we don't have someone to edit the tagine.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 1:03 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

I would say that

“right but this is the chaff that they decided to replace those good writers with” is an immature and rude way to speak when the person you’re referring to is in the room, as is “If I published crap like this on the front page.” Though the use of the awesome word “chaff” almost offsets the first one.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 5:56 PM PST up reply actions  

You think those are "correct"?

It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner

by WaddellCanseco on Feb 4, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, a lot more than they're mature or civilized.

They’re correct to the extent that they refer to a writer based on a front page post the writer himself has declared to be “sub-standard.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Feb 4, 2011 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

This isn't accurate. I read both his BtB posts and his SPANdemonium posts before making that comment.

BtB has some truly innovative writers. Gershman was a replacement over there who really didn’t do anything over there to be considered even close to the level of Sky of Devils fingers etc. Its like comparing a smart particle physicist to Einstein; theyre in different leagues.

And for the record I surely would be chaff if I was trying to replace those guys and Im more statistically inclined than Gershman

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 5, 2011 12:08 AM PST up reply actions  

He IS a columnist.

Just because he’s not an EXCELLENT columnist yet doesn’t change the designation.

And RS was mean to me. It still stings, even though I have no way to source that statement.

by Omnipotent One on Feb 4, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

The first comment to PT is what put me off too.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 4, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

You're really not getting it, are you?

You’re a newcomer who was given, in his very first piece on AN, a front page spot. People notice that sort of thing.

If you had read the site at all, you would have known that the evaluation of minor league prospects is a big pastime around here, and that it’s taken seriously – even by people who can’t cite every obscure statistical measure in existence. I enjoy reading a lot of these discussions, but often do not participate, because I have little to add or don’t feel like doing all sorts of research.

Your piece felt like something that could have been written by me, if I didn’t write as well and felt like being really optimistic about the A’s minor league system.

I wouldn’t have cared about the columnist thing if you had brought the goods. You didn’t, and then copped an attitude when called on it. The more contentious folks on AN have a history, and usually have earned a little respect.

You have earned nothing. You’re just some guy who writes for some other sites and is a fan of every team. You obviously don’t know AN, don’t seem to be a good writer, and have a bad attitude.

As someone who’s been on this site a long time, and who isn’t a “stat guy” myself, I tend to be more critical of the harsh tone that some people adopt on AN. It is usually unnecessary on what was started as – and remains – a fan web site. But you earned it.

Good luck on your next piece. Bring your A game next time, assuming you have one.

by bear88 on Feb 4, 2011 8:44 AM PST up reply actions   5 recs

When you've lost bear...

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Feb 4, 2011 10:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Mind if I ask how old you are?

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 8:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Aww don't say that

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.

by mikev on Feb 4, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Cougarville ftw!

You don't need a religion, you have the A's. - My girlfriend

by designatedforassignment on Feb 4, 2011 5:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Wasted away again in Cougaritaville...

"If you choose to question my fandom based on games I attend, you can f*** right off." - mikev

by Gaijin_Suketto on Feb 5, 2011 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

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