Albert Pujols Signs with Los Angeles Angels; C.J Wilson Also Joins the Monkey Crew
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 8:50 AM PST
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PrintUPDATE: C.J. "I Hate Oakland" Wilson has also now reportedly signed with the LAAAAAAA as well. Go Rangers!
Yes, the best player in baseball now resides at the stadium about seven miles from my house. And the reaction is predictable from around the blogosphere. Angels fans are, well, thrilled. Ranger fans, not so much. Me being a glass is half full type of person (my wife would say I'm lying through my teeth on that one), I look at it this way. Pujols is allegedly 32 and his contract would run through his 42 birthday. The Angels also still have Vernon Wells and Torii Hunter to pay for. And Pujols can be a fragile guy. By the time the A's actually get competitive again...think Miami Marlins heading into their new stadium this season...Pujols will have probably three or four more years on him and be around 36. Now Pujols could be Bondsian in that he ages better than anyone expects but the A's should likely be on the rise when hopefully the Angels will be on the other side of that curve.
Course that means we still have to endure the next 3-4 torturous years. Half full, Blez, half full.
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Good thing the A's aren't expecting to contend any time soon, because this would make it real hard for them to
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Dec 8, 2011 8:52 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Look on the bright side.
When we are ready to compete in 2015 or 16 in our new ballpark Pujols will be old balls and will be an albatross around the neck of the Angels costing them 26 million a year now that we’re in the post steroids era. He’s not going to have a Barry Bond’s steroid fueled career that lasts into his 40’s.
Yeah
In 2015, they’ll be paying Pujols ~$25M, Wilson $18M, and Weaver $18M.
I would put money on the fact that at least one of them will have suffered a debilitating injury at that point…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
You realize that many many players have had careers that were very sucessfull into their 40’s without steroids right?
by MoralesHomers on Dec 13, 2011 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
My thoughts exactly
Who knew the cold winter could last three years?
winter is coming....
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
by j-spliff415 on Dec 8, 2011 9:21 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
the worst part about all of
this? I’m not going to want to play a baseball video game for the next several years. ok maybe that’s not the WORST part
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Just play OOTP.
Fake baseball is where it’s at.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
man i wished i had seen this post when i first joined...
it would have saved me a ton of grief and not destroyed my self esteem. any way to give that post more visibility?
Falcon Punch!
I like
Whatifsports.com’s baseball sim engine.
Slegna must die!
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 8, 2011 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
OOTP is significantly better than that.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
MVP Baseball 2005
Update your rosters…to whatever you want!
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Dec 8, 2011 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I would pay good money if someone was willing to do this for Xbox
Still the best baseball series in history
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
There are pretty up to date ones
With very detailed and accurate rosters (WAY better than factory MVP’s rosters were at the time).
There were definitely some with opening day rosters for last year. Probably some with ASG rosters, maybe even end of year rosters too. Operation Sports is a good place to start looking, MVPmods is another.
Grazie
I think I need MVP 2004 actually, because 05 is not backwards compatible with Xbox 360 which is STUPID.
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
hmmm
well all the rosters are for 2005 i think, its hard enough to find those. You should just get an xbox1 =p
I have one covered in dust sitting in a corner of my room
But having to whip that sucker out (TWSS) and hook up all the cords just to play one game when I get the urge sucks
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
my outfield
in MVP05 is Rickey in left, Dwayne Murphy (such an underrated player) in center, and Reggie in right. I have swingles on the bench.
Slegna must die!
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 8, 2011 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This is
And always will be, the greatest baseball game ever made.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
The worst part about this is
I’m not playing a baseball video game for the foreseeable future. ok maybe that’s not the WORST thing.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
You already said that.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
He should really join my OOTP league.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Sorry
Actually testing out commenting on my Android phone and it put the comment in twice.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
THERE'S AN APP FOR THAT??!?!?!?!?!?!!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
That's what we're working on!
Hopefully it doesn’t regularly put comments where I don’t want them and post them twice or it’s going to make game threads pretty entertaining…or not.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'm thinking Lew has succeeded in getting everyone
but the most ardent of Oakland fans on the SJ train.
It’s all we got left.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I would still much rather they stay in Oakland but the City of Oakland has never done jack shit to keep the A's.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Oakland became a lost cause for me a couple years ago.
I have little doubt that the entire political machine in the city will be high fiving each other in the council chambers the day the A’s head off for greener pastures.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
May be losing more than the A's
According to the Chron the Warriors are now in talks with San Francisco about bolting across the bay to a new arena south of Pac Bell by 2017. And of course that piles on to the Raiders having talks with the Niners about joining them in their new south bay pleasure palace. It’s starting to look like Oakland may go from 3 big 4 teams to 0 by the fall of 2017. And they have no one to blame but themselves and their continual ass kissing of the Raiders at the expense of the A’s primarily but now also the Warriors.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/08/MN5R1MAC8Q.DTL&tsp=1
It IS Wolff's fault...
Attendance has plunged by 25% since he took over. His endless whining about the stadium and refusal to spend has turned “the doomed Oakland A’s” into a self-fulfilling prophecy. He is a carpetbagging loser, and I hope he goes crawling back to L.A.. I hope the SJ stadium is turned down.
by SteveMcPhatty on Dec 8, 2011 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Lew Wolff is responsible for the highest single season payroll in the history of the A's franchise.
Next?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
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DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
He also is single-handedly responsible for the worst recession this side of the 1930s.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
He turned me into a newt.
I got better.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Now your a Gingrich?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
He also started al Qaeda
and kicked my dog.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Dec 8, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
If anyone kicked my dog I'd do a lot more than criticize them on the internet
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
Inflation, inflation, inflation
Given changes in salaries, ticket prices, and everything else, this is the silliest reason I’ve seen yet to support Lew Wolff. The real question is whether Wolff was ever serious about Oakland or whether that was a bunch of hot air. By the time he took over the team, Oakland’s ability to build a stadium was already very compromised, and Jerry Brown pretty much destroyed the window of opportunity while he was mayor. On top of that, Dellums either didn’t care or was in early alzheimers while he was mayor, closing that window as well.
There’s a tendency not to trust developers that’s well founded. But really, Lew Wolff’s options were already very limited when he became the spokesman for ownership.
It was the year after they made the ALCS.
From 62M in 06 to 79M in 07 isn’t inflation.
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My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
huh?
What are you talking about? Inflation occurs over a period of several years. You’d have to go back to the great A’s teams of the late ’80s and early ’90s and compare that budget with comparable budgets around both leagues in order to make any claims about Lew Wolff.
Lew Wolff may have raised the A’s budget after 2006, but $79M is still a pittance compared to several other teams at the same time.
OK. In 2006 the A's made it to the ALCS
Wolff bumped payroll $18M the next season to continue to compete, after spending $62M. I’m not the smartest guy around, but I’m reasonably sure that bumping payroll almost 30% qualifies as a significant increase, especially considering attendance DROPPED from 05 to 06.
Saying that he has refused to spend money is flat out incorrect.
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My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
How much of that is arbitration/contractionally obligated increases?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
It doesn't matter.
If the mandate was “DO NOT SPEND MONEY” then we’d have seen players and salaries jettisoned.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Perhaps.
But “Wolff spending money to compete” is a lot less impressive when you realize it mostly consists of not jettisioning Haren, Swisher, Chavez, Bradley, etc the year after the team made the ALCS.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Whatever people wanna do in order to downplay it.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
So, the great teams of the late 80’s and early 90’s
Listed is the team payroll and in parenthesis is what that comes out to after inflation for the year 2010:
1989 – $14.6 MM ($25.3 MM)
1990 – $20 MM ($33 MM)
1991 – $33 MM ($52 MM)
1992 – $40 MM ($61 MM)
1993 – $35.5 MM ($53 MM)
Lew Wolff:
2006 – $62 MM ($67 MM)
2007 – $79 MM ($83 MM)
It seems to me that Mikev’s statement that "Lew Wolff is responsible for the highest single season payroll in the history of the A’s franchise" is pretty accurate
by sc00by on Dec 8, 2011 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ya, but what about the inflation of baseball salaries in general?
As in baseball salaries most likely didn’t inflate in direct correlation to the regular inflation rate. Its probably the case that almost all current owners are responsible for the highest payrolls in their franchise’s history.
i.e. do moar work!
Although I agree Wolf has been good for spending, not bad.
Yes. There's a ton of factors to consider beyond just adjusting for inflation.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
It's mike v's argument that's suspect
mike v wrote “Lew Wolff is responsible for the highest single season payroll in the history of the A’s franchise. Next?” as if that actually meant something. “Inflation” doesn’t just mean looking at 1988 dollars and their worth today. It means looking at inflated salaries and inflated payrolls throughout baseball. In that context, Wolff’s payroll in 2007 doesn’t have a lot of meaning. In baseball context, it wasn’t a particularly high number. It also came along with the knowledge that it’s the year after a post-season berth that attendance is supposed to rise, so he was just keeping pace not only with the larger player salaries that contracts entailed, but also with what would presumably be a larger revenue stream.
Wolff doesn’t lose points for his actions in 2007, but he doesn’t get any either. There are better arguments in Wolff’s favor. That’s really not much of one at all.
I mean..
You DO get that the entire point of saying that was to show how stupid whatever that guy said about attendance declining since Wolff took over and it being because of his “refusal to spend”
Increasing payroll by 30% is goddamn sure not “refusing to spend” — and as stated before, attendance decreased in 2006, and again in 2007. There’s no way in hell they were expecting higher revenue.
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My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Right
I do get that. Actually, they probably expected attendance to increase in 2007 because of the postseason in 2006. That’s standard throughout baseball. But this was also at the height of the PED story, which might have contributed to attendance loss.
As I’ve said, I’m not sure if Wolff didn’t always intend to move south, at least as far as Fremont, from the time the team was purchased. He saw Silicon Valley money and his eyes bugged out of his head. Whether a better Oakland city government could have changed that is unknowable. What we do know is that Oakland’s interest in keeping the A’s has been minimal, so in the end I don’t blame Wolff for looking elsewhere. There’s no black and white here, just a lot of gray.
I can't say I've appreciated his attitude either, but yeah, I never read one story where the city actually said, "let's make a deal"
Every single article about the San Jose move is usually the mayor and the city pushing hard, trying to do everything they can to make it happen.
So while I’m not a huge fan of Wolff I can’t say it’s his fault. It’s the city’s fault, and they are happy to see the A’s go.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
both 100%
I’ll take a page out of Yogi Berra’s book and say both of them are at fault 100%. The city because it never had any intention of building a new ballpark, and Wolff because he never had any intention of keeping them in Oakland regardless – everything was just an enticement to get San Jose to pony up. That being said, I understand both sides (Oakland has bigger problems, and Wolff would make mo’ money in San Jose), and I hope the San Jose deal goes through because I’d like for the A’s to compete sometime in the next quarter century.
by jdr on Dec 8, 2011 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
It's not about Wolff trying to "make mo' money" in San Jose.
It’s about not having any kind of way to pay for a park in Oakland that didn’t include the owners losing their money year after year or a public contribution.
Dude whatever they should just lose however much they need to or else they don't like baseball and hate america.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Shut up and go play your fake baseball.
Speaking of, what happens if someone tries to spend more money than their teams make in OOTP?
they go into the red.
it’s up to you to manage your finances.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
You lose the ability to offer contracts to players
or extensions to current players, etc
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
NO NO THATS JUST BECUASE THE OWNER HATES THE TEAM GOSH
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
OMGTKH lied, he never tried!
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Ugh.
You said it. It’s a good thing we’re not likely to compete in the next few years, or else this news would suck even more than it already does.
And whoopee!!! CJ Wilson looks like he’s also with the Slegna now (via Twitter feeds of our main trusted beat reporters). At least he’ll still be booed while standing on Oakland’s mound a few times per year.
I still have hope that the stars align in some way and we clinch the division next year!
Right before the world ends…bwahahaha!
Don't forget Conor Jackson
He makes all the difference
I will say this much
I will be rooting for Texas very hard in 2012. Adam Morris and Lone Star Ball just gained a new fan.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 8:56 AM PST reply actions
There needed to be a full on scorched earth rebuild anyway.
Thousand Oaks adding Pujols and Wilson is just another catalyst for it.
Everybody on the ML roster with value should be dealt. Arizona is supposedly after Cahill, Toronto wants Gio, Bailey should be dealt anyway.
The only guy who should stay is McCarthy because I like him.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
He said he is staying because he likes you too
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
That's the way it's headed
And I’m happy it is frankly. We should’ve done this a while ago but with the stadium decision likely looming (and since I’m being all optimistic – prime! I think it will be in favor of a new stadium in San Jose), what better time to reload and hopefully get the next Albert Pujols through some of these deals.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
Trouble is
There really is no next Albert Pujols. At least not for another 50 years or so. This guy is probably the best hitter of all time. The fact that he’s making less than A-Rod is absurd.
Speaking of which, wasn’t there a post a few months back detailing the lack of flexibility in the Angels payroll due to contracts like Vernon Wells’s? How did they dig up the money to land baseball’s most sought after FA hitter and pitcher?
(Also, C.J. Wilson is an utter douchebag and I’m glad he’s an Angel.)
Hats for bats. Keep bats warm.
If you go by something like
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/6/7/1503176/the-hall-of-fame-zone-revisited
You can assume that if Bonds didn’t have his LOL zone, and Pujols keeps up his current pace, it is possible. He’s got a long way to go, though.
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
I want to try this now
I want to plug a bunch of prolific hitters into WAR arc spreadsheet and add in a LOL zone to all of them and see who would come out with better career numbers than Bonds.
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Wow
That bump in Bond’s career looks like the man boobs he grew from all those steroids…
by athletics68 on Dec 8, 2011 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but that is of no consequence, when you consider that NL hitters always flop in the AL.
[hehehe]
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
There is certainly an argument that he's the best of all time.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Actually there's an article on the Angels website
Dipoto looking for ways to stretch payroll
Best Quote:
“‘I don’t think there’s anything in the way of wholesale moves that need to be made,’ Dipoto said. ‘This team won 86 games. It has a number of high-end, All-Star players.’”
Also:
“Moreno said he would like to keep his payroll ‘in the 130, 140 million [dollar] range.’”
Right now, it’s looking in the 150, 160 million range, so unless they are looking to unload Hunter, or Santana and Haren (undermining what they just did), Moreno is full of shit.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
DiPoto's plan along was to go to the winter meetings pretending to only have 15 million
to play with thus fooling everybody and then swoop in and grab the two biggest available free agents this off season. The plan worked and he charmed both Wilson and Pujols into signing contracts less than what the marlins were offering. Owner Arte Moreno didn’t even attend the meetings to make the covert operation a success.
Napoli's 27th, 28th, 29th and 30th homers of the year (four more than Jeff Mathis' career total) rained down on Angel Stadium like knives from the ceiling.
If it really was that scripted, then it worked brilliantly.
As much as I hate to give any credit to the Angels, kudos.
Oh, and, I hope the contract completely debilitates the Angels for the next ten years.
Love,
A’s Fan
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Billy Beane left the winter meetings early
He’s being super covert.
They’ll sign Fielder and Darvish.
"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully
Heh.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed.
A’s really need to go all out on this. Trade everyone, get an amazing stable of prospects and young players, and build for the potential new stadium. No reason not to, now. This division will be a ridiculous race between Texas and Anaheim for the next few years.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Member of FearTheFin's Mod Squad and The Knights Who Say NI-emi...
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 8, 2011 9:09 AM PST up reply actions
It depends what you can get for him. It's probably better to keep him for a couple of years to establish his value
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
I agree 90 percent
Don’t trade away my Gio! He’s already good and he’s just going to get better. And doesn’t Billy know he’s my favorite player?
Yeah, yeah, I know, he’s gonna start to get expensive, service clock, SHUT UP….
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
The silver lining during all this?
That all the media outlets kept saying, “Pujols and Wilson are coming to Los Angeles.”
hahaha…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Being a glass half full guy myself,
this was my first thought as well. In a contract like this you’re trading present for future. You win big in the first half of the deal, paying $25 million a year for 7-8 wins, but you pay for that by most likely having a lot of dead weight on you over the second half. He’s just as likely to crater at 36 as he is to age like Bonds. More probably, he takes a normal slow decline and plays out his late 30s as a very productive but nowhere near $25 million per year guy.
The next few years were already going to suck. This is just a further guarantee that they will suck. Hey, maybe it’ll make the Rangers panic and send some prospects Oakland’s way.
is 'age like Bonds' some euphamism?
for you know..
Hopefully some of you can answer this for me.
How do they pay for all these signings? We talk about how the A’s ownership shouldn’t spend their own moneys to sign FAs, yet I’m not sure the slegnAs can pay for all these FAs on just team revenues. If I am correct, then why is it wrong to expect the A’s ownership to spend their own money to field a competitive team?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Well, for starters, they have lots of these things called "paying fans" who fill the stadium
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly
They have had three million plus fans the last nine years or so (ever since that team won the World Series).
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
that's a lot of beer and stuffed monkeys
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
And f^&#ing beach balls
WTF is up with Angels crowds and the f@%^ing beach balls. Drives me nuts.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
Is it that much worse than the wave?
I remember listening to Bill King back in … Maybe 88? He said something to the effect of “Oh, they’ve started the wave. I don’t get it. ’C’mon Martha, let’s go to the park tonight and do the wave.”
by As Fan in the Bronx on Dec 8, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
1st inning against the Red Sox
I saw multiple beach balls in the 1st inning against the Red Sox. I always think of that when I hear people tell me that, as a hardcore A’s fan, I need to buy season tickets. No I don’t. If we want people in the stands, we need to appeal to the random dude, not the hardcore fan. If we want Albert Pujols, we need beach balls in the 1st inning against the Red Sox.
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 8, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Your last sentence is a sad realization
And 100 percent true
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
Yep, and it's why we are out buying high mileage Hyundais while the Slegna and Rangers
are out shopping for Lambos
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe.
But their payroll comes to about $57 dollars of every ticket sold.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Just think how much in merch alone they will make on this deal
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
Doesn't this also apply to the A's?
If we sign top FAs, don’t we also get that money? I understand it is a gamble, but I just don’t see how these signing( Wells, Pujols, Wilson, etc) pay for themselves. And, if they do, why can’t the same signings work the same way for us?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Not really, no.
Dead horse, whatever, but the A’s have a crap stadium, don’t draw fans, and are always on the receiving end of revenue sharing.
They don’t bring in as much money as other teams. Plain and simple.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
We need more gang members to buy A's gear
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
I think the other Coliseum tenants locked that market down.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Can't we win at ANYTHING?!
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
Green and gold probably doesn't strike much fear into a rival gang, though
Last of the Ninth - Photography
That's why they had the blacks as the third jersey...
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.
I understand the view, but I don't buuy it.
If we put a winning team on the field, the revenues will come.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
2006.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
1990
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
We just didn't make it far enough in 2006
Besides the fact the Coliseum is shit. But I do recall every playoff game being sold out
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
yeah I was there.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
No way.
McCarthy wasn’t a Hyundai. He’s kinda like a “mechanic’s special” WRX STi on Craigslist. Super cheap because it’s kinda broken, but a little bit of work and it’s sorta awesome even if other people don’t realize it.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
How about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm7Jam2phTk
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
What a coincidence.
Oakland has also drawn around 3 million over that same stretch.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
You are right, we get him AFTER that.
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
Unless he gets hurt first.
THEN we trade for him, by giving up a package of our top prospects.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
and then when that contract is done
the Giants.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
f-ck the giants
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
by stm72 on Dec 8, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
gee, stm. i tried to rec that but i may have flagged it instead.
sorry…i am embarrassed!
nah, you rec'd it. if you flagged it, it would ask you to explain why you flagged and what kind of flag you want (trolling, baiting, etc...)
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
For the last time, everybody,
you can’t accidentally flag anything. If you click flag, it’ll bring you to a box where you type in why the comment is bad, hit submit, and THEN the flag is recorded.
by danmerqury on Dec 8, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
she's reacting to the fact that if flag doesn't load, AN puts a '1' next to word flag. innocent mistake
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
by stm72 on Dec 8, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wait a minute....
so what you’re saying is that I’ve been rec’ing all those folks who really piss me off?
Who knew?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
What is confusing, is that when you DO rec'd something, the "flag" shows
I think that is just to show you what options you have let, not what you just did.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
I accidentally flagged. It only takes two errant mouse clicks.
by LoneStranger on Dec 8, 2011 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
The reason people think they are flagging
is because when you rec you first click “actions”. That gives you a choice of Rec or Flag. When you click Rec it goes into a little process where it registers the Rec. During this process the word “Rec” is replaced by “loading…” in small faded type, while the word “Flag” is still there green and bold. Sometimes, if the site it bugging out with a stupid ad or something, the process stalls, in which case you never see the Rec complete. Instead you see the word “Flag” is still there while the word “Rec” is gone. That’s what makes people think they accidentally flagged, but they didn’t.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Whats new?
C’mon people. We should all be used to this by now. It just makes me hate the ANAHEIM Angels more. We are David in a world of Goliath’s. Bring em on.
It has become an annual ritual
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:06 AM PST up reply actions
Twitter is loading slower than crap for me
but Slusser just said perhaps Darvish is a crazy possibility.
really?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Well...
that would certainly be awesome. Maybe the A’s are looking for something to draw fans whilst the major league team is crap.
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
MLB trade rumors on Darvish
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
Absolutely no point if you're already shopping Gio, Bailey and Cahill.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Why not?
Just because the team isn’t going to contend doesn’t mean they shouldn’t spend any money. It’s starting to look like the 2012 payroll will be one of the lowest in the league, and it’s not like Darvish would be blocking anyone.
In fact, acquiring talent like Darvish (or Cespedes – in other words, someone you don’t have to give anything up for), if you can get it anywhere below market value, is exactly what the A’s need to be doing right now.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
Also, Isn't there stipulation in the new CBA that you need to maintain a certain payroll.
To qualify for revenue sharing?
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
The amount a team receives for revenue sharing
must be spent to “improve the product on the field”. The players union has asserted that this means payroll, and though it has never gone to court, that is how it is usually interpreted.
Therefore: A team’s payroll must at least be as much as revenue sharing receipts from the year before. The A’s receipts were around $40 million.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Right, there's no reason not to add talent, if it's just in exchange for money,
particularly money that might not be spent otherwise. Firstly, Darvish may very well still be on the team in 3 years, if they were to sign him now, and secondly he could certainly represent an excellent trade chip. The A’s need any talent possible.
That said, the exact quote from Forst is: "It’s no secret he’s being posted, and we’ve had the ability to plan for it if it’s something we wanted to do."
To me that sounds like he may just coyly be trying to add the A’s to a mysterious sense of a lot of teams interested in Darvish to drive up the posting price, since the way the posting system works is each team is bidding against unknown and invisible enemies.
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
(Link)
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
They should gift that money to the fans instead.
As an apology for the shit team they will be fielding.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
seriously
Why should we be expected to pay for tickets or a cable package to watch the River Cats?
by SteveMcPhatty on Dec 8, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Because they'll be in contention for the PCL title
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Darvish is going to cost in the area of $100 million when it's all said and done, combining posting fee and salary
And how long will he be stuck here while the team is working on a rebuild?
In a perfect world I’d rather have him as part of a contending team. Sure, he’d be big news but it’s not like the Coliseum is going to be packed all the time with him in an A’s uniform.
I don’t know how you can talk about getting someone like Darvish at anywhere below market value considering what it’s going to cost to get him.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I honestly think now is the time
that our team blow itself up completely. Sell off all your assets and just suck in 2012. There is no one going to games any way. Maybe the A’s will actually get a top five pick for once instead of out of the top 10 picks. And build up the minor league system into something great in anticipation of that new stadium opening.
I mean enough with trying to cobble together 75-80 wins and watching the Yankees West and Red Sox West battle it out for first place. I know it isn’t in Beane’s nature to let the team on the field suck, but at some point you have to just let it go and accept that the other two teams in your division are far superior. 2012 is the perfect opportunity to do just that.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
Much as I’d like to keep Gio Gonzalez here, if they’re offered a deal that helps them restock the system with quality players, hitters especially, you do that deal.
Bailey’s not even needed here if the team is going to be that bad.
The timing of it is poor with Darvish because he’s a guy I’d love to see in an A’s uniform, but they have more important things to take care of than waste money on him now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Waste money
I haven’t taken a detailed look at the numbers, but the A’s payroll can’t be looking like more than 30-40 million when all is said and done, can it? They have to spend somewhere.
SIgning someone like Pujols would make zero sense, because in a case like that you’re getting an unmovable contract and trading future for present. In Darvish, you’d be adding a huge asset and likely only be locked in for his prime. You can trade that in the future.
I’m not saying the A’s should get him at any cost, but they should certainly be investigating opportunities like this one and Cespedes.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
I agree that Darvish isn't going to help the A's go anywhere soon
But don’t forget that he’s only 25. If the A’s aren’t planning on spending money in the next few years, he could be worth a gamble. They will have time to see him establish his value without affecting the A’s future. When it comes time for the A’s to be competitive, he could be a part of that, or they could trade him.
Also, I just want to see him on the A’s, personally.
Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!
Well there's also money to be made
from having a Japanese star and the A’s might not be making money elsewhere. It’s why they could very well decide to bring Matsui back on a cheap deal. They certainly won’t be bringing money in from ticket sales.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
How much did Matsui and Yabu bring in?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have access to the A's books
but I’m betting a lot more than we realize (at least for Matsui).
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
sorry, as a long time season ticket holder I do not agree
You should NEVER plan to suck. You ALWAYS plan to put a competitive team in the field, while building up your system for the future. I don’t see any contradiction in this.
The contradiction is that it's impossible to do both at the same time.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
especially since our recent drafts have been...um...lack luster
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Well you never plan to have your drafts lack luster.
You should always plan your drafts to be filled with luster
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
as another long time season ticket holder
I disagree with the attitude that a team plans to suck…
On the other hand, if you bring in a bunch of second tier free agents like the A’s did last year and try to cobble something together, you WILL suck. That’s the strategy that the Pirates and Royals have used for years. With Braden coming back in the spring and Anderson in the summer, with Moscoso suddenly being a decent mid-rotation guy, and with McCarthy on board for at least one more year, Gio or Cahill is expendable, as is Bailey if it will improve the team.
If Allen and Taylor suddenly get their act together, the team will be competitive in 2012. If they don’t, then Choice and the top prospects coming from these trades will create an exciting atmosphere in the next two years because of optimism for the future. The A’s of 2012 won’t resemble those awful teams with Rob Picciolo and Mickey Kluttz and Shooty Babbitt because most of the players are real major leaguers, even now.
I say, go for it. I’d rather look to the future than sit and watch players like Hideki Matsui, David DeJesus and Coco Crisp grind out another year like the last one.
I would say clearly we are not planning to win this year. But planning to suck isn’t really accurate either.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Playing 38 games against Texas and Anaheim may not give us much of a choice
We’ve been too afraid to suck, and it’s cost us a few years. Might as well let the natural catabolic processes take place here.
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
by cuppingmaster on Dec 8, 2011 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
The good news...
…is that if those processes work, teams generally do better a year earlier than expected. I’m anxious to see what the current crop can really do rather than watch a year of Conor Jackson and, say, Andres Torres.
I would say that getting a player at or below "market value" actually matters LESS
when the team is in rebuild. The reason to get players of maximum value at the lowest price is to have enough money to spend on the rest of the team. If you’ve already spent the allotted “nothing” on the rest of the team, and there’s no reason to improve because winning games is not the goal, then simply acquiring talent is all that matters.
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
(the point being so that Darvish can eventually provide value either in trades or for the 2015 contending A's)
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
I'm not saying it will happen
But I would be able to see the logic if it did. Say you can get him for similar overall package as Matsuzaka. Then you’re talking 5-6 years at 50 million for his actual salary. He has true ace upside – way better than what Matsuzaka offered, but unlikely to get much more because of how badly that turned out – which would make him one of the most valuable trading pieces out there.
Bring him over, let him excel for a year or two in the Coliseum, and then trade him to get the final few major league ready pieces for the rebuild. I can see the logic. It’s not like you’re going to be spending the money anywhere else.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, there'd be some logic in that to be sure
And it would give them some flexibility to keep him if they’re able to build up enough without trading him to complete it, too.
A lot of it depends on how much they can make back from the posting fee, though. Essentially it’s $100 million for that timeframe minus whatever they make through marketing and the rest, with no assurances of how he’ll actually perform or stay healthy.
He’s known for very high pitch counts in Japan, though from what this indicates 2011 had fewer high-count starts than 2010 even if his overall pitch count increased: http://mopupduty.com/yu-darvish-final-pitch-count-1231/
In 2010 he averaged 16 pitches per inning. In 2011 it was 14.6. Good sign, at least.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
One of the (only) good things about the posting fee,
is that although the A’s might spend $100 million on Darvish, his actual contract wouldn’t be that much, making him a valuable trade chip (and giving the A’s financial flexibility by the time they’re competitive again).
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
That does make me more open to the idea than before
Well, the timing of it anyway.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
And if they do end up trading Darvish, he'd probably be much more desirable than Iwakuma ever could have been
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Sure but he's a lot more expensive
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Which also means if he's pitching like he's capable of, he'll command more in trade later if they go that route
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yes, I wonder whether the posting fee counts at all for unofficial salary floor purposes
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
Once a team pays it that's it, if that's what you're asking
It doesn’t count against the yearly payroll even though it’s an expense, so if they look to trade him later it’s just his contract – as far as I know.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Right but if the Marlins had signed him and then Bud came
to them complaining that they weren’t spending enough revenue sharing on payroll, would that have been an argument in their favor?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
There was a time long long ago when the Marlins were a small payroll team
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see how it wouldn't.
It may not count towards payroll, but it’s certainly spending revenue sharing $ on improving the big league roster.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
In that case I'm all for it!
I’d rather have Darvish than the next Fuentes, Balfour, et. al.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
The more I think about this
The more I like it. Also, just check out his FIP components over the past 5 years:
2007: 207.2 IP, 210 K, 49 BB, 9 HR
2008: 200.2 IP, 208 K, 44 BB, 11 HR
2009: 182 IP, 167 K, 45 BB, 9 HR
2010: 202 IP, 222 K, 47 BB, 5 HR
2011: 232 IP, 276 K, 36 BB, 5 HR
via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Darvish#Career_statistics
Yes, he’s playing in Japan, but holy hell. And he’s 25. There’s a reason he is going to cost a total of $100 million+.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, he's an incredible pitcher.
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
by King Richard on Dec 8, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
2011 is ungodly, though there was a new NPB-wide standardized baseball finally put in place this year
That resulted in a real drop in home runs and even quality of contact, but with the unregulated balls that were used prior to that (there were some variances) you could make mediocre contact and put one over the fence.
More info:
http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201106240282.html
http://sportsroadtrips.blogspot.com/2011/11/beware-those-gaudy-japanese-pitching_5554.html
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Profits would be the point, the merch sales, Japanese following
Last year with Matsui, that was real. There was a noticeable bump and way more Japanese fans in attendance than I ever saw in the past.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
And yet, they only averaged 721 more fans per game than the year before
Last of the Ninth - Photography
just imagine if they didn't sign him!
Darvish is like 10x more of a star in Japan than Matsui, there’s probably a Japanese TV deal on the table to televise all A’s games, merch exports, etc. I believe you make a lot of the money back.
Their payroll is shaping up to be peanuts unless they spend some money, so why not on someone that will make a big chunk of it back for you (rather than relievers like Fuentes and Balfour?)
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
That's exactly the point
Signing someone like Darvish would almost pay for itself with Japanese television and ad deals.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
This, coupled with the CJ Wilson signing, is pretty freakin' amazing
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
Looking for the silver lining
I wasn’t keen on the Angels getting Vlady, but they did. And he didn’t win them a WS. (Admittedly, Albert’s a better hitter.)
A-Rod’s contract is already a drag on the Yankees.
We might get Trumbo out of it.
We get to see Albert play. A lot.
Full. Metal. Rebuild. Send Gio and Cardenas and Balfour to the Rangers for Profar.
Dark Cloud thoughts….Damn, that rotation is going to be good. Damn, they’ve still got Mike Trout coming up.
Yeah but we have
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
exactly
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
by OptimistPrime on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Sucks to be the Astros
Hey, at least they get one year away from Pujols!
Last of the Ninth - Photography
The absolute worst thing would be...
Astros building up from scorched earth faster than the A’s with their new, smarter GM from the Cardinatls
Oh, crap. That just reminded me that we're going to have to beat 4 teams instead of 3...
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.
Love or hate Cameron
He had a piece that gives cause for cautious optimism.
I agree with him
although when you have a chance to get the best player in baseball, you have to do it. Plus the Angels want to win in 2012 and they can also use some of those other pieces to get some younger talent back in return.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
I think that piece illustrates the danger of
getting into a mindset where there is a constant dollar value for a win.
It seems clear enough to me — as some other commentator wrote in another piece — that Moreno sees this year as an opportunity to grab long-term dominance of the L.A. market from the Dodgers. If he can do that, then that makes a huge difference to his profit, regardless of how the $-per-WAR equation works out.
To reduce that to
At $250 million over 10 years, the Angels are essentially paying for something close to 40 wins over the life of the deal.misses the point.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
To be fair, Cameron's audience comprises mainly of fans, who mostly only care about dollars to wins.
Obviously, the ownership and GM have to factor in many factors beyond that, such as the one you just listed.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Agreed, and that is a constant problem with his posts (and a lot of the other stuff on FG)
However, he makes some very solid points about how the roster the Angels already had in place mitigates the benefits somewhat, even in the short term.
On a more general note about Cameron, I like how he is willing to take an unpopular position and jolt people into thinking about the assumptions they’re making, but he often does so in a grating and a-hole-ish way. He also falls into the “constant dollar value per win” trap all the time, which really leads him to ludicrous stuff, like when he was arguing earlier in the offseason that the Reds would benefit by trading Votto to the Mariners for Pineda and some junk, or the Giants should deal Lincecum.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
I like Dave Cameron a lot.
He’s not afraid to stick up for what he thinks even when it goes against the consensus, and he’s very good about explaining his reasoning.
I do disagree with him often, but I like him.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
the first few years of facing Pujols will suck, to be sure
but a 10 years, $250 million contract with a full no trade clause for 32 year old King Albert. Long term this will bury the slegnA.
(I want Trumbo. Or Morales if he’s really fully recovered. Or both.)
As for CJ: that’s fine, love screaming at that postseason choke artist.
CJ to the Angels = Lackey to the Red Sox?
We can only hope. I do think they are going to regret it sooner rather than later.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 9:31 AM PST up reply actions
I would rather not bother with either
Especially not in a deal for Bailey or Gio.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:18 PM PST up reply actions
yeah I am glad he stayed in our division
We have a lot more ammo after last year’s ws
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Great, this is just what I want to see in the morning.
It would be nice if the teams I hate stopped doing things to make me hate them.
Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!
And the beat goes on
Moneyball … the art of losing perennially at an unfair game. It’s been five straight non-winning seasons for the A’s, and when they finally get competitive again, the other teams that bring in much more revenue not only in baseball but also in the AL West will spend it more wisely than the A’s and keep their edge.
A new ballpark in the Bay Area is now a must, although it will mean it will be at a higher cost to our fans. Even with a new park in San Jose and the opportunity it would represent, I’m not sure the present ownership would know how to market it property, unless they have just done an intentionally bad job of it in Oakland in an attempt to grease the wheels on a move to San Jose. I have much more faith in Billy Beane and his staff on the baseball side.
But after five years of backsliding and what appears to be a couple of more on the horizon, the A’s as a whole have me thinking maybe I should focus on the 49ers and the Warriors. Yet I know I’ll be back hoping for the best, come spring training. It’s infuriating and painful. Still, maybe 2011 was a signal that Prince Albert is starting a downward spiral, though I doubt it. The Angels also are getting our beloved nemesis, C.J. Wilson, as well.
Yet maybe, despite all that rebuilding talk, the A’s catch lightning in a bottle, some of their young hitting prospects finally come through. Let’s dream on, A’s nation.
by nativetexanasfan on Dec 8, 2011 9:45 AM PST reply actions
Does C. J. realize this means he has to keep playing a lot of games on our horrible mound?
Oh well. Slegna just spent an awful lot of money to be reasonably sure of winning 2 out of every 5 games. I wish them all the luck of the powerhouse 2011 Boston Red Sox.
Scott Hatteberg, English major.
And I'm looking forward to the creativity of my bleacher comrades
If Pujols is mostly DHing, it will be harder to abuse him with continual chants of “Poo-hole”. But I’m sure we’ll try.
Scott Hatteberg, English major.
you know, it's hard to heckle Pujols...he's just so damn respectable.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
So, he is smart AND talented!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Rangers are back to back AL pennant winners
Angels sign Pujols and Wilson
Mariners now in race for Fielder
A’s looking to trade ace and closer.
Things are looking up
"And thank you to God for making me an Atheist." - Ricky Gervais
by MichaelClutchtree on Dec 8, 2011 9:50 AM PST reply actions
Olney just won't stop teasing me...
A’s in “advanced talks” with Arizona and Bauer "of interest to A’s…… OMG OMG OMG
We were discussing this in the other thread, but yes, Bauer would be an incredible haul.
mlbtraderumors says “11:45am: Talks between the A’s and D’Backs have advanced but aren’t close to completion, tweets Olney. He reiterates that Bauer is a player of interest to Oakland.”
If the A’s really were trading for Bauer, the trade wouldn’t be able to be completed until January, even with Bauer as a PTBNL.
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
Yep I love trading away all of our worthwhile major leaguers too. It makes me giddy inside.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
At this rate we might as well just move the team to Sacramento.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I think they've been wanting to do it for a while now,
but only feel free to do so now with a new stadium coming.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
No let's just keep all our middling major league players ...
and suck for another decade.
Cahill, Gio, Bailey and Anderson are not middling Major League players.
The craptastic hitters that we acquire from the scrapheap are.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I'll agree with you here...
but I would also argue none of these players are aces… which Bauer is almost certainly going to become
he's a prospect, no sure thing
A’s problem is developing hitters, not pitchers
When's the last time we had a pitcher who actually pitched like a stud though?
We haven’t had a pticher post an fWAR over 5 since 2007, when Blanton and Haren both did it (Haren at 4.9, close enough).
We may have decent pitchers, but when you’ve got the chance to get a guy who could put up ace-type numbers, you take it.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
IDK about Ynoa...
Replace with Brett Anderson and I think u got it… though if Brett comes back and does good next year I would deal him because players who depend so heavily on sliders are historically injury prone
Pure speculation but I bet Pujols wanted to go to AL if he was leaving STL
so he would not want the wrath of the fans.
Supposedly Marlins offered $275,000,000
They offered Wilson $100 million apparently too, which is ridiculous.
"I think what baseball projects, and what classical music needs, is the sense that one goes to a live event not to experience greatness, but to experience the possibility of greatness.... Not every game is great but what we go for is the chance that this particular game might be.' —David Lang
by King Richard on Dec 8, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
And yet both turned the Marlins down to sign with the Angels
at a discount. I really hope that’s not true.
Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!
My God.
Pujols passed up $275 million in a state with no income tax to take $254 million in a state with a 10.3% income tax.
Is this true?
If it is then that figure goes down to about $36 million. Which is still a ton of money.
No, not quite correct.
Simplified, it works like this: the state a game is played in has first dibs on taxing income for games played there; the state where the player lives has second dibs on taxing it.
So if you live in Florida, you pay CA tax on games played in CA, but zero tax on games in FL. If you live in CA, then you pay CA tax on games played in CA, NY tax on games played in NY, and CA tax on games played in FL (or TX, or WA).
Note that Pujols needn’t necessarily make a home in CA his primary residence.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I'm pretty sure he's rich enough to A) Not care, and B) pay people to figure this shit out for him.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Always nice when we tax people in states where they can't vote.
Isn’t Pujols required to pay CA tax on his CA games either way now? I know Jeter “lived” in Florida for a bunch of years and there was a bunch of shit raised about it a little while ago.
by BWH on Dec 8, 2011 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
That seems so wrong.
So that tax rate defaults to the highest state?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Income cannot be double-taxed.
Therefore every state has a scheme to avoid taxing income that has already been taxed in another state. Some do it by exclusion, others do it with credits. It varies from state to state.
It won’t necessarily default to the higher rate.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
yep
as a performing artist, I work in a bunch of states for various opera companies and orchestras as an independent contractor. I have to file in each of those states as well (except of course for Florida like you mentioned – in which case CA collects taxes on that income).
Ooh, another opera professional.
Along with secret Asian man, that makes three of us.
Well, I’m “retired” now. I think maybe Kenny is, too.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
THEY KILLED KENNY!
Bastards.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
States can tax income earned in the state.
That’s basic.
California is more aggressive about taxing out-of-staters than any state I’m familiar with.
They’re especially bad right now because the budget crunch has caused them to (1) scrape for every possible tax dollar they can imagine, but simultaneously (2) understaff the FTB, so that you can’t get an answer to any phone calls or correspondence.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I wonder why player agents don't try to get their clients salaries paid differently, based upon where each game is played?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
That sounds like a needless complication.
You take the total salary and prorate it out to the states depending on locations of games played.
What’s more complicated is a guy who bounces back and forth between MLB and AAA, especially if the teams are in different states, because then his salary is changing as well.
But I assume the team’s payroll department works it all out and the player just sees a bunch of different state numbers on W-2s.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
this is blowing my mind. what’s the rationale behind it in the first place? i work in california. last year i had a washington client. i did most of the work for them from california, but i did get flown to seattle for a meeting. would i have to pay seattle taxes for that day? i mean, is that the parallel here, where you are physically located at the billable time when you’re doing your work?
by AV on Dec 8, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Short answer: yes
If you do work out of state, you may be liable for state income tax in the state where you did work.
Long answer too long to complete here, but some highlights:
- For a trivial amount of work, the state might not pursue it.
- Whether it counts as out-of-state income can depend on the circumstances of the work and how you’re paid.
- Many pairs of states which have cross-border metro areas have reciprocal agreements whereby you don’t pay out-of-state tax and the states work out the difference between them.
As for the rationale, what’s the rationale for any tax? You pay sales tax if you buy something in another state. Why should you pay income tax if you work in another state? If you don’t like it, you can stay home.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Huh.
Guess I should write a $10 check to the State of Missouri.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
You're probably under the state exemption amount.
One time, after it became clear that California had become more aggressive in pursuing non-residents, I decided to calculate my California taxes for all the years since I moved here in 2004. (Every year until this one, I’d go back in December to do some Christmas work.) It took me about an hour per year and the first two years I calculated I owed $0 and $6, at which point I said fuck it and decided it wasn’t worth the trouble of filing.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
by iglew on Dec 8, 2011 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't really worried about it
Essentially 1 day of work in Kansas City. I’m not sure how it works since the money went to my employers in Seattle, who then paid me in Oregon.
All of my other out of state work has been in WA, where it’s not an issue anyway.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
what you’re saying will make more sense with time, but i’m still barely grasping the concept of being taxed for where you’re standing, not where the money is exchanging hands (as in, even if an A’s player plays in toronto, his check is still coming from an oakland business).
and now i’m thinking of historical exceptions… like what about when george h.w. bush listed his MA house as his residence to get a beneficial state tax, even though he purportedly did most of his work in DC?
by AV on Dec 8, 2011 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
I assume most of GHWB's income
is investment income, and that’s why he keeps a tax residence in ME. His presidential salary should have been taxed in DC.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Come to think of it,
what we really mean is TX. He kept a home in Houston as a tax residence, right?
I think he wanted ME for political reasons. Or maybe because that’s where he really did spend the summer.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
double-right.
and apparently, he didn’t pay DC taxes either, since there’s an exception for politicians…
painful to read: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1992/01/01/87059/index.htm
by AV on Dec 8, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
Huh, interesting.
I didn’t know that.
Like Michael Kinsley used to say, the real scandal isn’t when people break the law, it’s what they do that’s perfectly legal.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
LOL.
People like that don’t work under the same rules that us commoners do.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
So he's essentially costing himself about $15-20 million in taxes
by playing in California instead of Florida.
by BWH on Dec 8, 2011 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
A's fans are pissed off today,
but he’ll help our state economy and shoulder more of our ample, ample tax burden in CA! So there’s a silver lining.
by BWH on Dec 8, 2011 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Except where would that tax burden have gone but for the trade.
Assuming the Angels lost out on the Pujols sweepstakes and stood pat, that $25 million would have been profits for the Angels. And I have no idea how corporate taxes work for baseball teams.
Iglew?
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
I don't do big corporations.
Way too complicated for me. For all I know, Arte hides all his money and doesn’t pay taxes at all.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
A little bit of information...
Under “Corporate Ownership.” Sounds like it’s pretty easy to find ways to not pay taxes when owning a team. For example, being able to depreciate players’ salaries.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
That's why they have assistants or hire people to do it all for them
Last of the Ninth - Photography
yeah -
I wouldn’t mind being a tax lawyer for pro athletes – that’s probably a pretty lucrative business….
by oakballnack on Dec 8, 2011 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Assuming that he doesn't establish residency in CA, that's true
I don’t know where he lives currently, but if he were to become a resident of CA, he would have to pay taxes on his income from outside of CA (although I believe he would get credit for taxes paid in other states), I’m pretty sure. (note: I am not an accountant, but I did earn income in multiple states one year)
Then he could have stayed in STL and I wouldn't have to deal with the flood of Facbook
statuses about the Pujols memorabilia my friends plan to throw in a bonfire tonight. I had the pleasure of staying at a friend’s house in Cleveland when LeBron announced he was going to Miami. Now I’m at home in Cardinal territory and I have to deal with this nonsense.
This is unpleasant.
At least Pujols delivered 2 WS titles and some great memories before he left
The bonfire is an overreaction…
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
It's hard to explain the sentiment around here towards him.
St. Louis really does have incredible fans. It’s definitely an overreaction but there is real hatred for Pujols right now. I hope it passes. He was too much fun to watch. I guess I get to watch him some more.
the lebron thing was way worse...it's weird that the reaction is even comparable.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
It's apples to oranges
but the common denominator is that they both played in a city whose fans gave them their full, undying support. And then they left for shinier pastures.
yes, it's just that Pujols basically gave STL fans an almost complete career.
He’s spending his golden years somewhere else but they had him for his prime. He signed multiple below-market extensions to stay with STL in the past. I’m surprised people are that reactionary…but I probably shouldn’t be.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure one of the reasons St. Louis couldn't afford him in
the first place was because Holliday’s making $17M per year, even though Pujols wanted the Cardinals to sign him and put a competitive team around him. There is bitterness there, too.
Exactly
The below market extension is key. This one I believe they will get over.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Dec 8, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
That's a terribly common denominator, though
Except here are a few differences:
- Lebron is from the general area, made waves about bringing a title to Cleveland (accepting that the roster was mostly mediocre because of how the front office built it) then bolted to form a superteam in Miami.
- Pujols is from the DR, won two titles with the Cardinals, and went somewhere else afterward.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
The other difference is that LeBron could have made more money
in Cleveland than in Miami, while Pujols is getting about $50M extra to play in Anaheim. Some of that goes to the State of California where taxes are higher than in Missouri, but still it’s a lot.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
wait, you're telling me he didn't go for the money, yet he didn't sign with the cards?
WTF dude. If you’re not going for the money, stay with the fucking team that you built your legend with!
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Why?
$250 million to play and live in So Cal rather than St Louis? Hell yea.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
He will bea god also..
and he gets to be rich n So Cal, which is a great place to be rich.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
he's married with kids. it's a great place to be rich and single
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
That is true
It’s also a great place to be rich with a wife and kids. Compared to St Louis? Different world.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2011 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
it's possible his wife had something to do with the decision.
She was like, no way am I letting him loose on South Beach.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
LA is more spread out
Plus a lot of OC is just upper crust rich areas, where he’ll be living. Not exactly the same pace/speed.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
I thought FAs always went for the money?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Like he's gonna live in Anaheim. Have you been to the coast citiies in the OC?
Awesome places.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
plus you hit oaktownpower a little close to home. literally.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Haha..now that is probably true.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Actually the area right around the stadium is really nice
I ride my bike by it all the time.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
I have a feeling he won't move to Anaheim.
There may be one or two places in SoCal he can move to with $250M that wouldn’t be too shabby
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
If he lives in Anaheim it will be Anaheim Hills
which is still Anaheim but, you know, fancier. That’s where a lot of pro athletes settle in…or he could just go the Newport Beach route.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2011 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Can't buy Anaheim
The Mouse owns that city. But I’m sure he could afford to purchase Newport Beach
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
I would not want to move to Anaheim Hills
I’ll take South OC over Anaheim Hills any day of the week…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
He won't live in Anaheim
Just like none of the players live in Oakland, He’ll live in the Walnut Creek of Anaheim, which by the way there are many.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Dec 8, 2011 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Once you get to that point, is it really ever actually about the money?
It sounds like he felt like St. Louis was lowballing him and got frustrated with them. Seriously, how are you ever going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars? It’s about “respect” at that point.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
Willingham and picks
So Slusser is reporting the likely candidates for willingham are Colorado, Minnesota and Cleveland. link: http://blog.sfgate.com/athletics/
Anyone know what picks we would get for the teams listed above?
-Dan
The picks directly in front of the teams that sign him.
First round if 16-30, second round if 1-15.
So, respectively, 2nd round 10th, 2nd round 2nd, 2nd round 15th.
You seen this confirmed?
All I’ve seen is that Top 10 picks are protected and modified Type A’s earn their old team a draft pick in front of the new team’s next highest pick. The Mets get a pick in front of the Marlins’ 2nd round pick for losing Reyes.
The monster at the end of this blog.
There was a discussion by Jim Callis
where it seemed to suggest only the first 10 were pushed to the 2nd round. I believe that was a misunderstanding resulting from Callis replying to a commenter (someone from here, I think) who only mentioned 10, but it’s not really clear.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
wow. Willingham could be a beast in Colorado.
he should consider bumping his value even more with a one year deal there – and he would be a bigger fish in next year’s market.
In Colorado
he’d have to play the outfield, which would be ugly. Also, anyone know what the deal is with his achilles injury?
But you’re right, he’d hit the shit out of the ball.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Dec 8, 2011 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Colorado's outfield is a lot bigger, though
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
If Brad Hawpe could do it....
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
...it's Willingham?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Has he done something to offend you, other than bad LF defense?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
You have no reason to hate him
He played as well as he could here, though he struggled between the home runs he hit (struggles that were mainly in the first half), he was active with charity and would have liked to stay but the A’s are going in another direction.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
His wife clearly didn't want to stay.
Same with Mrs. DeJesus.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
he could have accepted arb!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Sweet DeJesus is she hot
Unrelated, but IT MATTERS
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
I'm not sure he really did want to stay.
I think maybe he was just being gracious about it (which I appreciate).
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Not defensivley they didn't.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Dec 8, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
I would hope
that all A’s and Rangers pitchers are told that under no circumstances should Albert Pujols be thrown a pitch in the strike zone. Fuck the Angels – they’re certainly going to get a shit load better, but I hope the whole league just walks him all the time. It’s not like Torri Hunter and Mark Trumbo are Matt Holliday and Lance Berkman-esque protection….
As part of the desperate search for silver linings
I’ll point out that this is good news for the AL West. I dare the media to throw more East Coast bias at us when we watch the two-time WS bridesmaid Rangers go up against the “Yankees-West” Angels. Should be quite a division race.
Since I think we’re all fairly resigned to cellar dwelling, I’m at the very least looking forward to some HUGE late season spoiler-type divisional games against two of the newer baseball titans.
Very true
You know it might be cool to see the our stadium full if we’re playing them for the 500th HR. West coast baseball needs the love.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Dec 8, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Olney is full of ....
I don’t believe any of his speculated moves have been correct during these meetings
by HRH on Dec 8, 2011 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah that dude has been wrong on everything.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Adrian Beltre says "Joo talking to me?".....
;-)
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Just play baseball (and hope CJ wilson suffers a career ending injury due to some "accident" with the Coliseum mound)
At this point, whatever, our team looks like it sucks. There’s still a lot that can change. There’s probably not a deal out there that Beane really likes for Gio (who he believes in a lot, enough to make him the centerpiece of the Swisher trade years ago), and who is pretty much the most marketable player the A’s have.
I have a hunch that we’ll stay with Gio, or we’ll be pretty damn excited about the package that comes in for him. Bailey I love but whatever, he is a luxury for us.
No one thought we would win the division before the Angels signed Pujols, so how does this really change anything?
Explica por favor
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
It doesn't but I think it furthers the point to start stockpiling MiLBs
so that in 3 or so years they can compete against a hopefully declining Pujols et al
Glass completely full
And here’s why:
1. We weren’t competing anytime soon anyway.
2. We get to watch better players playing the A’s. I love the idea of Pujols coming to Oakland with the Angels nine times a year. I want the Rangers to get better too. Yes, I want the A’s to win, but I also like seeing good teams.
3. The lower we finish the better the draft picks in the future. Sick of hanging around the middle. I’m sure Beane is too.
4. When we do get better—get a stadium?—will be when these contracts start hurting these teams. They’re paying for the past and for the immediate present; they’re overpaying a good deal for the future in all these cases.
5. Having better competition should make the A’s better. When they can spend, they will not be aiming to get “just good enough” to win a bad division. They will have to compete in a strong division. I like that.
So, I love the signing. It’s what I was rooting for.
by RLangford on Dec 8, 2011 10:48 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
I just hate the fact that nothing ever hamstrings the Angels.
Nothing. They can make every stupid signing/trade in the world, and never have to actually suffer for it. Even with Hunte, Abreu, Wells and whoever else I’m forgetting dangling over their necks as huge albatrosses, they have the money to go out and get Wilson and Pujols.
What frustrates me is that, even when the A’s are competitive, the Angels will still be outbidding us on free agents. It doesn’t matter if Pujols is a huge burden on them; they’ll still always have the money to go way over the top.
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 8, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
because they have an owner that's willing to go out of pocket
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
There are a lot of reasons
that all still create an unbalanced playing field.
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 8, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
of course, but the idea that they don't get hamstrung really is because their owner is willing to go out of pocket
Their base budget is already much higher than the A’s based on other factors, of course revenue sharing balances that out a little bit, but then you still hit a wall. The Angels never seem to hit the wall in large part because Moreno doesn’t give a fuck.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
Where do you get the info that the owner pays out of pocket?
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
I believe I read a quote from him that he's willing to do that if it makes business sense
In other words, short-term, as an investment.
Also, there were quotes after he lost out on Crawford, that he said if he signed him that would be 20 million in red ink. Now he went and signed CJ and Pujols.
But I assume that he thinks 2012 will be red ink but his TV rights deal will be a lot more valuabel with Pujols on the team, jerseys will sell, he can raise ticket prices, etc.
He is not hamstrung by a budget, in other words, he views Pujols as an investment.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Possibly.
Certainly, the jerseys will sell. The Angels current TV deal runs to April 2016, for about $50 million per year. So a new deal wouldn’t start until the beginning of Pujols’ fifth season on the contract, unless they renegotiate.
Currently, from what I read, Fox isn’t happy with ratings from Angels games. I guess Pujols/Wilson could change that, although if they weren’t getting ratings in 2007-2009 when they were winning the West, I don’t know if Pujols would give them that big a bump.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Basically he is taking a gamble.
He is spending the money he said he would be losing if he signed Crawford, $20M in red ink. So…he must be going out of pocket but banking on some waves of increased revenue in the future.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Biz of Baseball has a good write-up
I’m still not sure if it means he’ll be out of pocket this year, but it certainly will cut into whatever profits he has. But, as the article says, Hunter and Abreu are off the payroll next year (replaced cheaply by Trout) and there’s not much next year in available free agent hitters, so the signing makes more and more sense both short and long term.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
The Angels just signed a new 20 Year, $3B Deal w/ FOX
Albert Pujols, C.J. Wilson deals enabled by TV revenue
"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff
by Geronimo Berroa on Dec 9, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
So Pujols is getting $250M of the $1.5B in the first 10 years?
That’s kinda amazing.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
It really chaps my ass that we are always struggling (it seems) to find a radio home and a TV home and they get this.
And use to acquire Pujols.
"You can attract a hitter but you can't make him hit" -Lou Wolff
by Geronimo Berroa on Dec 9, 2011 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Essentially, they are getting their entire payroll this year paid for by the TV deal.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 9, 2011 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
By now you know this probably but at the end of this season the Angels got out of the old deal. They then negotiated a new deal that now that we have Pujols is worth 3Billion over 20 years or 150million a year.
by MoralesHomers on Dec 13, 2011 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
They're like that kid in little league
who has all the cool equipment, his parents always take him out for pizza, and he has a personal coach (like JD McCoy in FNL). And the kid is just a major tool, I mean total self-entitled douche. And you consistently root for him to fail but he goes up there and sure enough he goes 3-4 with a few RBIs and you’re like “goddamn it, there is no cosmic justice in this world.” But if you would have stopped for a second, you would see that his parents are really screwed up and that if you just wait a few years, all this extravagance is gonna bite him in the ass, and even though in five years you’re not much better, you’ll feel better about the whole thing. Except for the pizza thing. It would’ve been really nice to get some of that pizza.
Nah
There’s a difference between the little snot and the Angels. You eventually realize that it’s not really the little snot’s fault; he was spoiled since he was born. The Angels are not a person, so it’s not like you have to care for their mental well being. I still don’t think the Angels will ever have to pay for this extravagance; the owners will just eat the sunk cost. The metaphor would have worked better if it ended at “There is no cosmic justice in this world.”
by Rebuilding Season on Dec 8, 2011 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
the kid was the team
the parents were the front office, and you remember that part about the waves incessantly crashing on the beach, that was meant to symbolize the ocean as a mother and nurturer.
I was gonna respond similarly
But I’m not sure the extent there’s a sunk cost. The team drew 3.1 million last year; that’ll probably jump a bit from the Pujols signing. Plus there’s some TV revenue. Plus there’s gonna be a lot of merchandising from millions of little snots lining up to be the first to have a Pujols jersey – seriously, the timing of this couldn’t be much better for the Angels with Christmas less than three weeks away.
On the other hand, the team salary jump from last year is likely to be about $15 million and about $35 million from two years ago.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
I work with a rabid Angels fan.
He’s beyond giddy right now…3 hours, and it’s already driving me nuts! It’s gonna be a long season with this guy.
Also, love the J.D. McCoy reference!
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter! Batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!!!
by CmdrKhraanik on Dec 8, 2011 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
I have already had several calls.
I did a preemptive strike to the most annoying one and he did not even know they had got Pujols etc.
I just gotta hope Texas gets a little better in the pitching department because their hitting lineup is still way better than the slegnA
Hopefully Morales does not return to form too quick when he comes back.
Texas still has to be favored, but it's a race now.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Hell yeah! FNL FTW
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter! Batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!!!
Hopefully the cosmic justice is that the Angels never win a WS with Pujols under contract.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Feel the same as when Giambi Jumed to NYY
Kiss Cahill Gio and well about the next decade gone -
FUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
I feel so shitty, and not just because of the food poisoning
But because during the entire Pujols Marlins-Cards bidding war, I was glad he wasnt going to the Giants or Angels. On top of that, the Red Sox and Yankees couldn’t get him.
Well fuck.
Even a blind squirrel is right twice a day.
Well
looks like we picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
Death seed
blind man's greed
poets starve and children bleed
nothing he's got
he really needs
21st Century schizoid man.
Dude we still have room on the scorched earth nukulur rebuild bandwagon
we have cookies. and pie.
PIE!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
sorry, I didn't hear you
I’ve been contracted by the A’s to work on their 2012 advertising slogan. Some of my preliminary ideas include:
“2012 Oakland A’s: There’s Gangs and Crime Here, Don’t Come”
“The 2012 Oakland A’s: We’ll Be Competitive After You’re Dead”
“The 2012 Oakland A’s: Wait, There’s a Game Today?”
or, my current frontrunner/personal favorite:
“Oakland A’s 2012: When ‘Fuck You’ Just Isn’t an Obvious Enough Declaration of Intent”
Death seed
blind man's greed
poets starve and children bleed
nothing he's got
he really needs
21st Century schizoid man.
by emperor nobody on Dec 8, 2011 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
how about
“Your 2012 Oakland A’s: Why Bother? The World Is Going to End Anyway.”
Death seed
blind man's greed
poets starve and children bleed
nothing he's got
he really needs
21st Century schizoid man.
by emperor nobody on Dec 8, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
HAHAHAHA YOU EXPECT ME TO THINK THEY PAY FOR ADVERTISING ZOMG
am i doing it right?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
you're hired!
now get down here, I’m in the basement of the Coliseum, affixing the C-4 to the columns and straightening out which fuses go where.
Death seed
blind man's greed
poets starve and children bleed
nothing he's got
he really needs
21st Century schizoid man.
by emperor nobody on Dec 8, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
I see the Rotoblurb has the slegnAs talking to us about a trade for Bailey.
Here’s hoping the Pujols signing is part of a 3-way trade, where we get Albert, the slegnAs get Bailey ANd pick up $20M of Pujols salary.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
So we'd still have to pay $230M?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry, "yearly salary"
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Are we arguing with Bud?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
my only argument with Bud
is that I’m broke and can’t afford to buy any cuz it’s too damn expensive.
Death seed
blind man's greed
poets starve and children bleed
nothing he's got
he really needs
21st Century schizoid man.
by emperor nobody on Dec 8, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
Busch? Natty?
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.
I think he meant a different kind of bud
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
I know... I was trying to make a joke. But thanks for making sure.
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.
Classic
BMcCarthy32 Brandon McCarthy
Hey @BrettAnderson49 @DALLASBRADEN209 @GioGonzalez47 @AndrewBailey40 in response to today’s news let’s all do an extra set of pushups.
Except for Amanda
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Together they're the best
I want to be friends with them. They don’t live that far away from me… I’ll just go wander around Dallas and maybe I’ll happen to run into them… /stalker
Why would anyone live in Texas of their own volition?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I have no problems with Texas.
Other than the Rangers, that is. There are a bunch of Ivy League grads that are smart enough to live there.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
I lived there for a while
not that great. Not like Cali.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
I lived in California for a while.
Not that great. Not like….well anywhere else I’ve lived.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
During the offseason they live in Dallas.
They even visited the Winter Meetings this week, according to the twitterz. I hope they told Billy/Forst not to trade Gio.
I wish I were cool enough to be friends with them. :(
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
fixed
there is no brandon except for brandon allen BRANDON ALLEN.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
fixed
there is no brandon except for brandon allen BRANDON ALLEN. BRANDON! ALLEN!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
it feels like there should be a "MotherF-cking" in there
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
that's the kind of talk that gets men killed. don't make BA mad.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I bow to your genius!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
I really would like to sign him to an extension
I don’t want his awesomeness on any other team ever.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
I love him so much, he is my favorite A.
We are so lucky.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
On the record
If somehow the heavens smile upon us and Kevin Towers has one more bonehead move inside him, and we acquire Trevor Bauer, I call first dibs on number one fanship. Boom! Drops Mic, walks out of apartment, puts shades on, remembers he forgot his keys, cries in a alley, befriends a pack of hobos, rises to the king of the hobos
Bailey angels mentioned again
Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune reports that the Angels have had talks with the Athletics about closer Andrew Bailey.
I doubt theyd get trout and looks like theyll keep trumbo.
Maybe a deal with conger and bourjos?
Conger sucks.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
The Angels sure have a lot of players named for fish.
They had Tim Salmon, too.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
The Pujols contract should have a provision that he changes his last name to Pufferfish
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 8, 2011 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Man, when he first came up I had a roomate that thought Pujols was the funniest name ever...
“You’re telling me you pronounce it Poo-Holes!?!?”
At one point in my life I liked Dave Kingman more than Rickey Henderson. I was stupid.
I heard that 1st on Family Guy
now that is all i can think about when someone says his name.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Bourjos makes sense.
Would take more though
Business man by day, fearless couch guardian by night.
by Hoegaarden on Dec 8, 2011 1:36 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I read somewhere a couple days ago that they don't plan on moving Bourjos.
They shouldn’t. He’s a lot better than Wells and Hunter.
Plus, Hunter's gone end of this year
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
Would take more than Bailey or Bourjos? I'd trade Bailey for Bourjos in a heartbeat but I think like Kenny Williams
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Bourjos is really good. That’s a very good deal for the A’s straight up. Throw in Conger and it’s a no brainer.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
"Doubt they'd get Trout"
That’s an understatement…
There are no three players in the entire A’s organization that together would equal Trout’s value.
by thelincolndude on Dec 8, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
Oh man, watching games are going to be tough this year...
Anyone else think its batshit crazy that in this economy a team would commit to $320M+ for 2 players in the span of a day?
This is a problem guys, I’m kinda w/ Billy re: the “Super-league” idea.
I don't think the A's plan on contending anytime soon which is good thing.
Because if last year was suppose to be our contention year, were doomed against the Angels and Rangers. So the A’s and Mariners just need to sit back and trade everyone on their roster before they leave in a year or two for free agency. So I’m fine! pujols is an Angel C.J. Still hates Oakland, the A’s can’t do anything in free agency but shop their players everything’s going according to plan!
Sorry Blez I can't be glass half full on this one.
This is bad. This is Giambi to the Yankees bad. Worse. It doesn’t matter at all that we’re rebuilding. The A’s likely won’t even sniff the playoffs for the next decade. Sure, we can hope the best player in baseball gets massively hurt or just starts to suck in three years, but that’s pretty crappy.
I want to crawl under a rock and die. Does that mean I’m too attached to baseball?
Don’t answer that.
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Dec 8, 2011 2:57 PM PST reply actions
Rec'd for coming back nearly exactly an hour later
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
I'm onboard with the glass half full brigade
But mostly because if we’re going to suck for a few years, then fuck it, SIGN ANYBODY YOU WANT.
But if the Angels win the World Series, I’m not going to be a happy camper. And last I checked, Pujols can’t pitch, so there’s still hope the slegnA will just be like the Mariners at the turn of the century: fantastic regular season records, no rings.
Assholes.
Al Davis 1929-2011 Just rest in peace, baby
"Da greatness of Da Rooster" - RLangford
Follow me on Twitter @FernandoRGallo
except that they can pitch
Weaver. Haren. Wilson. Santana. Fuuuuuuck.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 8, 2011 5:43 PM PST up reply actions
So the A's didnt take anyone in the Rule V Draft today
I wonder if it was because they didnt like anyone available, or if they simply just couldn’t afford it.
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Hey if we need an outfielder
what’s Lastings Milledge up to? Dare I ask? Couldn’t hurt to give him a minor league contract, could it?
so he did.
Can we buy him away? Or is he completely toast?
by BWH on Dec 8, 2011 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
I saw he was playing in the Venezuelan league recently...
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 8, 2011 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
(thud)
just the other night, was it last night? i read one post on AN that debunked this ever happening and I was good with it.
ack-A
Häägëñ Dääs
I think the hardest part for me about all this
is realizing that there figures to be a pretty awesome AL West race next year, similar to the ones we see annually in the AL East, and we won’t be part of it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
December 8th forever now known as Los Angles Day
Lakers get Paul now
Fuck all this LA shit….at least the Dodgers still suck
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
Owners rebelled against Stern, deal is off
Love it. Fuck David Stern.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Although it was pretty classy of them waiting until a day after December 7th
To totally surprise attack the AL West.
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
Damn, so the A's aren't going to get Pujols, then?
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 8, 2011 6:03 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
I don't get what everyone's so worried about
We still have WAY more 1Bmen than the Angels do.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
As well as 2nd basemen.
Unfortunately, we don’t have ANY 3rd basemen. And only one starting OFer.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Buster Olney just said he thinks the Cardinals biggest mistake....
….. was when they locked up Matt Holiday 2 years ago and failed to lock up Pujols or reserve enough to keep him…. A’s have their fingerprints on this travesty.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!
The curse of the non-smile.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I always thought that.
I couldn’t believe they gave Holliday that deal without Pujols locked up.
by BWH on Dec 8, 2011 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
In Jennifer's basement?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I thought that Pujols was part of the motivation behind that deal.
Didn’t he say he wanted St. Louis to build a championship team around him? Or am I just remembering the speculation of the time?
Yup. They had to sign Holliday in order to show Pujols that they were serious
and I believe that while that was happening Pujols even hinted at taking a team friendly deal.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Yes, their real mistake was not signing Pujols to an extension then and there
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
I learned something today, kids.
Today I learned that the main reason I liked Pujols was not because he’s really, really good, but because he’s in the National League.
Also, today I learned that I am going to hate the fuck out of the Angels next season. It’s gonna be awesome.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
Regarding the Angels regretting the deal in the latter years of Pujols' contract, yes
Pujols is unlikely to be as great a hitter when he’s 40 as he is now, and yes $25M is a heck of a lot of money.
But on the flip side, if Pujols stays generally healthy he could certainly be a very good hitter into his 40s, and we don’t know how big a $25M contract will look in the year 2019.
So while the Angels could be in “deep regret” a few years from now I can also see a scenario where it’s just a great deal for them overall.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Uh, no
The end of the PED era means pretty much the end of good hitters over 40. Yes, there will always be exceptions, but generally speaking you’re not going to see it from Pujols, just as you didn’t see it with Mays or McCovey or Killebrew or any of the greats from earlier eras.
I really wouldn't be shocked if he were still a good hitter at age 40
Maybe not “HOF good,” which we’re used to, but still good. Not someone you’d sign for $25M but perhaps someone you’d still be happy to have in your lineup as you finished paying for several years of “helping the team be potential WS contenders”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree and I'd be pretty happy to win now with HOF Pujols and worry about declining
Pujols later.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
They also have the added ability to transition him to DH as he begins to break down in the field
Can’t do that in the NL.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
He probably won't be a great hitter in his 40's
But there will still be reasons to come to the park to see him. He’s got 445 homers. If he averages 32 homers a year over the life of the contract he’ll be the Home Run King. Given the amount of money involved, and even if he’s just a mediocre hitter by that time, he’ll still be in the lineup. There’s that and his 3000th hit to look forward to as well. He’ll still be putting butts in the seats.
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
All true, but all would have been more meaningful in a Cardinal uniform
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
What about Scott Hatteberg?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 8, 2011 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Next time I step on your Oakland mound...I will be a slegnA... biatches!
Once a douche, always a douche!
by AuthenticA'sfan on Dec 8, 2011 11:46 PM PST reply actions
City of Oakland is making a mysterious "announcement about Major League Baseball" at noon
Scott Hatteberg, English major.
Worst case scenario:
The vote on San Jose is “delayed” while Oakland explores options which ultimately fail.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
again?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
BTW, if the rumor is correct and they're going to say that they want to redesign the current Coliseum complex
I would be absolutely completely in favor of that happening.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Well, that would require a tear-down and rebuild of the Coliseum for starters
At least for it to be anywhere close to viable.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
That's fine.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
It's not really the middle of nowhere when there are 2 freeway exits and a BART stop.
It really couldn’t be much easier to get to the Coliseum where it’s at now, and kicking the Raiders the hell out would just be a bonus.
San Jose is fine, too. Really, anything is fine. Just get a new friggin stadium done.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Getting there is easy.
But there’s not much to do there except go to the game and tailgate. Nothing desirable surrounds it in walking distance, which is a problem.
by BWH on Dec 9, 2011 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
I know, but I'm not really concerned with the surrounding area and the economics of it.
First, that’s way over my head, and second — I just don’t care that much.
Getting there, tailgating, and leaving is pretty much exactly what I do anyway. The fact that there aren’t super neat cool things to do around the park after the game is over is just not a concern of mine.
Although, I suppose if a super sweet brand new ballpark got built right off the freeway and right at a BART station, well… maybe some of those cool neat companies and places where you have shit to do after the games would wanna go there. Isn’t that kinda what happened with phone booth park?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
This...
The owner is a real estate mogul, you give him a shiny rebuilt ballpark on the grounds they are on, if he wants a Hooters a Dave & Busters and an IMAX screen in the surrounding area, as the movie said, “build it and they will come”.
HOOTERS!!!!!!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
that would be the new official meeting point for pre-tailgates.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
And hell, post-game tailgates
"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully
true.
and, um, complimentary shirts for the AN chicks.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Shirts or the orange short shorts?
Or both?
(I can feel Kyli hating me right now)
"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully
I think we should try to get the
Tilted Kilt to open up a restaurant instead.
by LoneStranger on Dec 9, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
also acceptable.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
yes.
(and yes. whatever.)
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
NO ORANGE!
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Yea, but do you really see the city giving him the land to develop after basically
ignoring him the past couple years and working “directly with MLB.”
Lets get that Trevor Cahill deal to Arizona done
And ship out Andrew Bailey as well to any of his attractive suitors. Meanwhile, we hold onto Gio Gonzalez unless we are absolutely blown away by an offer. This way, we keep Gio, Ross, FDLS, MCarthy, and when Brett comes back this is still very very solid.
What I think is a realistic return for Cahill from Arizona:
Arizona Diamondbacks receive:
Trevor Cahill
Oakland A’s receive:
A.J. Pollack , OF(Sickles #7, BA # 6)at 24 he is a bit old for a prospect, but the kid can hit.
then ask for Tyler Skaggs (Sickles #3, BA#3) this kid is just climbing up all of the top prospect charts and for good reason.
What is weird is that I’m seeing Skaggs ranked ahead of Trevor Bauer and Jarrod Parker in overall Top 50 Prospect in the Game Rankings (he was #19 overall in lasts years mid-season Top 50/ #11 Pitcher), yet within their own Farm System it goes Bauer (top pick out of UCLA last year and winner of Golden Spikes Award), Parker (#40 overall & #22 overall pitcher last years mid season Top 50), then Skaggs. Regardless, they have arguably the best young trio of pitching prospects in the game, all with “A” grades from Sickles.
So I think we need to look in the Diamondbacks direction again. They have plenty of depth in the farm, and they are willing to deal prospects, as the past is evidence of, and as Kevin Towers just said…Arizona GM Kevin Towers was just quoted as saying he is willing to give up Top Prospects in order to compete in the immediate future:
""We see an opportunity in the next couple of years — and this is just in our eyes, the way we view it. After winning a division, expectations of the fan base, looking kind of at our competition — this is probably an opportune time to hopefully stay on top, if we make the right moves, and are able to make our club better, even if it means giving up prospects."-Ernie Pomin, SB Nation
Final Deal:
DBACKS receive: Trevor Cahill
Oakland A’s receive: A.J. Pollock, we attempt to get Tyler Skaggs but end up with Matt Davidson 3B-1B (B-, #8 according to Sickles in their farm) and LHP Wade Miley (#15, Grade C+)
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Dec 9, 2011 8:33 AM PST reply actions
Skaggs is an A-, as is Parker
Consider this the short, short version…
Cahill is worth (conservatively) $31 million in surplus value. Your last trade proposal is worth about $11.5 million.
You just undersold Cahill by approximately $20 million.
And I prefer Eaton to Pollock.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Bauer or they can kick rocks.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Bauer signed last July
Unless there’s been a change in the rules, a draftee has to stay with his original team for a full year.
The monster at the end of this blog.
He can't be that unless they wait until January to do the trade.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 9, 2011 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
I'll wait till January.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
So will I
I’m not sure the D’backs will, though.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 9, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Then they don't want Cahill that badly.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Then I say
Fuck the D’backs.
Oh, and the Giants, too.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 9, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
haha thanks for the math
I understand the undersell……What do we think we could really get Bauer or Skaggs for Cahill? Knowing what we know about Trevor? For Gio I’d say no doubt. But it seems that the DBACKS really like Cahill. I would be ecstatic if we could get Bauer or Skaggs
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Dec 9, 2011 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
If Cahill is worth $31M then they'd want two of Skaggs, Bauer, Bradley or Parker for him?
Or alternately one of those guys plus like five lower level prospects? If so, I’m all for it.
Now, is Cahill really worth $31M conservatively? I have my doubts. He seems to project by ZiPS as basically a 2.5 WAR pitcher. If he stays the same for the life of his deal, he’s worth about $12M/season a $5M/WAR. That’s more like $20M surplus.
that means he’d be worth just one of those pitchers plus a couple of lower level prospects, which I could probably live with.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
You forget the option years, which have a value
Cahill is owed $29 million guaranteed. That leaves $21 million in surplus value. If his option is picked up, it stands to reason he’ll be expected to produce a 3 Win season. 5 years from now I figure the average cost of a Win bumps to $6 million. $6 millionper again for the 6th option and that’s an extra $10 million.
You could argue that tacking on the option years is sketch… but I’d argue that expecting no improvement out of a 23 year old pitcher over the next 4 years is more sketch! If he becomes a 3 Win pitcher over the next 4 years he’s worth $60 milion… a $31 million surplus before the option years come into play.
And… if you’re a fan of bWAR than Cahill has already posted 4 and 3.5 Win seasons.
The monster at the end of this blog.
And it takes nothin' to link the quote you highlighted.
Good habit to get into.
The monster at the end of this blog.
That would be a terrible, terrible return for Cahill.
Bauer, Pollock, and Cowgill and we’re getting close.
by BWH on Dec 9, 2011 8:51 AM PST up reply actions
This seems like too much...
You have to think about this from AZ prespective… Sub Bauer for Skaggs and I think you got it.
They're perspective
is that they’re getting a pitcher who was every bit the prospect Bauer/Skaggs was merely 3 years ago, and they’re getting him through 2017.
Bauer Pollock and Cowgill isn’t even enough. If they’re short of that just hold on to Cahill.
by BWH on Dec 9, 2011 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think Cahill was nearly the prospect Bauer was...
Bauer is ridiculously good.
Cahill was something like the 11th ranked prospect by BA in 2008.
They don’t come much higher than that.
by BWH on Dec 9, 2011 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
Bauer Pollock and Cowgill would be ridiculous and I'd pee with happiness.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
That's a good core to start with
and throw in 2 or 3 lower level guys.
by BWH on Dec 9, 2011 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
You're vastly over valuing Cahill
Bauer is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
What about Archie instead?
Bradley is farther away so Az might be more inclined to deal him instead
I see Cahill as a potential number 1, though others may not.
Maybe a Cy Young in his future, his stuff is that good. Keep in mind he’s made an all-star team at an age where most guys are still in AA. And he’s under team control through 2017. I’d want 3 all-star caliber prospects back or I’d just hold on to him.
by BWH on Dec 9, 2011 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
I think we are placing too much value on Cahill
Although I really like him, and no doubt a move to the NL would only make him better.
But, do we really see him as a future #1…I know he is still young and has already preformed very well in the show. My belief is that if we could get any of the DBACKS Top 3 pitching prospects coupled with their Top OF or 3B prospect…..then that would be a good deal. I think Gio has a much higher ceiling than Cahill, and I would want the above mentioned package you suggested for Gio.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Dec 9, 2011 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Nobody's holding a gun to our head.
Really not the worst thing to hold on to him.
by BWH on Dec 9, 2011 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
well true
Keeping Cahill and Gio, well waiting for Brett, is not the worst thing that can happen. In fact, those 3, when healthy, could and will likely be just as good if not better than anything we could acquire. With the added bonus being that we already know what these guys can do at the MLB level and how much better they can be.
I do, though, think Andrew Bailey needs to be traded ASAP
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Dec 9, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
Can the A's have a no-trade clause with Cahill?
As in, the Diamondbacks can have Cahill, provided they don’t trade him to Anaheim?
"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully
Limited no-trade clause
They can trade him to Anaheim for any combination of Pujols, Wilson, Haren, and/or Weaver.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Dec 9, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
yes
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Dec 9, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Pollock is not too exciting at all...
his age outweighs his production at Double A at this point. I think we gotta hold out for one of their Big 4 pitching prospects (maybe not Parker though, so probably Skaggs) and matt Davidson for Cahill.
My problem with the concept of this deal is of course selling low. Had we listened last year, he would’ve had more interest and bigger package than Gio most likely. If we deal him, it better be for the last 2 years of production and not just last year.
This is pretty funny.
In this thread alone, we’ve had two proposed trades that probably differ in about 30 million dollars worth of surplus value. That’s roughly the amount of value Jason Heyward figures to provide from now until he hits free agency. If fan based rosterbation results in Jason Heyward-sized differences, then seriously, what’s the point?
Too often, I see people just throwing names around aimlessly when it comes to these types of trades. But what’s the point of rebuilding if you can’t determine what your end goal is?
If we take a step back and simplify, our goals are clear:
1. First and foremost, we have to replace the production lost from trading Cahill and Gio.
But if replacing their value is all we get, then we’re right back where we started from. Three or four years now, we’ll realize that our team isn’t good enough (again) and we’ll have to rebuild (again). This is an odious scenario that I, and you probably, certainly want to avoid. Which leads us to goal number 2:
2. In addition to replacing Cahill and Gio’s lost value, we have to gain enough additional value in order to make up the gulf between us and Texas/Anaheim.
This is why you wanted to rebuild in the first place, right?
~~~~~
So now that our goals are clear, we realize that…..damn, this is not an easy task.
I think it’s reasonable to assume that the loss of Cahill and Gio is about a combined loss of 6 WAR a season. I think the A’s, as currently constructed with Gio and Cahill, are about 20 wins worse than Texas/Anaheim. This is a shitload of ground we have to make up. So therefore, in order for the rebuilding packages to be worthwhile, I think you’d need about 18 future WAR coming back to you, 6 of that is to replace Cahill and Gio, with 12 WAR being your overall net gain.
To make things even more difficult, the players who compose that 18 WAR should be producing that value simultaneously whenever the A’s are ready to compete. It’d make no sense to have 9 WAR producing during the next 2 years, while the other 9 produces 4-5 years from now. In other words, you should target players who are basically all getting to the majors and entering their primes at the same time. If you manage to score such a package, you’ve improved your team about 12 wins from the way it is right now.
Like i said, I see Texas and Anaheim being about 20 wins better so we’re still about 8 wins short. But I think the A’s could make up that 8 win difference through free agency, development of their own prospects, and trades (Bailey, McCarthy, etc).
This is the goal I’d set for rebuilding. It’s a lofty one; it basically asks the A’s to attain 9 WAR packages for both Gonzalez and Cahill. But Beane’s done it before, and I think he could do it again.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 9, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Where do you look up a player's WAR for 2013-2015?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Check with Ed.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
In lieu of a crystal ball....
I think you can reasonably assume that a package of 1 A- prospect, 1 B+ prospect, 2 B- prospects, and 1 C prospect can produce about 9 WAR/season worth of major league value, assuming they all come up and peak at about the same time.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 9, 2011 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
Does that includes (TINSTAA) PP's?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
For me, that acronym has always been "there's no such thing as a prospect, period."
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 9, 2011 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
And this is why we're not seeing any trades
Teams are unwilling to sacrifice these potential stars of the future even for mid to top rotation pitchers like Gio and Cahill. It’s possible Beane will get something done, but unless someone gets antsy, it’s not going to happen now (of course it could happen today).
My feeling is that Beane should wait until the end of this season. Both pitchers still will have years of control ahead of them, and by then we should know whether the current crop of talent is real or a mirage. I’m anxious to see what Allen, Taylor, Choice, (Cardenas, Mitchell, Carter), Green can do in major league uniforms so that we know what the A’s really need to compete with the big boys.
Well, that's just untrue.
Toronto just dealt their best pitching prospect for a closer.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Maybe I should have specified hitting prospect
The Giants handed off their best pitching prospects for two months of Beltran.
Waiting til next year almost certainly means the A's get less for them than they would this year.
For the simple fact that they’re both one year older with one year less control. You also run the risk of injury and underperformance.
The market for SP is really unprecendented this year. Half the teams in the league are expressing interest in Gio…..it only takes one to bite.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 9, 2011 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
True...but....
We don’t know what the team needs because these young guys haven’t yet had a chance. A year ago, did we really know if we had a second baseman of the future? Jamile Weeks hadn’t really proven himself until the first couple of months of 2011, and he still wouldn’t have gotten his chance if Mark Ellis hadn’t been injured.
It may be that by June we’ll know where we stand with some of these guys. But if Carter suddenly starts hitting and if Allen can handle 1B, then that means the A’s don’t need a 1B/DH type at all, which means the team can go all out for a third baseman or center fielder.
But we don’t know that now.
Looking at the A's roster, I see every position as a need.
Two months, or even a year, of hot (or cold) hitting from Carter or Allen or anyone else isn’t going to change this perception. A year ago, it looked like first base was solved for the next few years. So really, we can’t even assume Weeks has truly filled a need, especially with his history of hip and soft tissue injuries.
You go for the best available players, and if someone truly establishes themselves at a position of one of the top prospects you acquired, then you explore trading either that prospect or that player for a need.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 9, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think that takes into account the "target date" framework
That is, if the A’s could just cryogenically freeze Gio and Cahill and restart their careers in 2015 or something, they might be willing to do that. Partly because of the SJ possibility, but also because other players might have had time to develop in the meantime. Weeks might be in his prime in 3 years. Choice might actually be producing. Anderson might be healthy and productive again. Not to mention Brandon Allen and Green and Gray.
In short 6 WAR for the A’s in the 2012 AL West might actually be worth less, overall, than 6 WAR for them in the 2015 AL West. So a trade that ended up replicating, but not surpassing, their value might be very worthwhile, if the players they receive peak at a better time for the organization.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
That would imply something like an A pitcher and a couple of lower level prospects for each
Which sounds reasonable to me. Also the younger the players the better….down to about 16 of course.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
But if you truly believe that, why trade them at all?
You’re basically saying the core is already in place for the A’s to match up with Texas/Anaheim, and that they just need time to develop. Since you picked 2015 as the date when they’re all theoretically producing at the peak level high enough to challenge Texas, I think it bears mentioning that Gio and Cahill are still under contract, Cahill for two more years after that. You can sign Gio to that extension as well. Why bother trading Gio and Cahill at all when you’re just taking the risk on guys who might be as good as they are?
The issue isn’t that Gio and Cahill peaked too soon and we have to trade them cause they’ll be gone by the time everyone else peaked. The problem is that “everyone else” most likely won’t be good enough when they peak.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 9, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
I think you're right that the minors are too bare to make "wait and see" the entirety of the plan
My point is that just replacing value doesn’t “get us back where we started” unless it replaces their value in exactly the same seasons. And I pulled 2015 out of the air — it might be that they’re targeting 2016 for all I know. In theory, at least, they could draft the extra WAR they’ll need to become a 90+ win team. The basic point still stands: rolling their value forward is valuable, even if it leads to the same total WAR when in an A’s uniform.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I see your point.
Basically, I’m very pessimistic on the ability of guys like Green and Allen to add much value at all. And I really can’t see any way the A’s can draft their way into making up the difference, especially with the likelihood of the new CBA diluting the talent willing to sign.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Dec 9, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't the same players sign as they ever have, except they may now
do so after college? The CBA doesn’t change the universe of prospects does it?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 9, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's more likely those lower round, overslot toolsy guys (like the Domonic Browns) go off to play basketball and football in college instead.
I reckon one of the main reasons they chose baseball out of high school, and the uncertainty and general crappiness of minor league baseball, is because only baseball offered the lure of a quick, substantial overslot bonus.
Especially for small market teams, I can see a lot more pre-draft agreements with the Jeremy Browns of the world.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
So.....Um....Hate to BRAG....But I think I couldn't have hit the nail on the head any harder than the TRADE PROPOSAL I discussed this morning for Trevor Cahill
Bob Nightengale of USA Today hears that Diamondbacks’ prospect right-hander Jarrod Parker is not in the proposed deal for Athletics’ right-hander Trevor Cahill.
According to Nightengale, the D-Backs won’t deal Parker because they plan on making him their fifth starter in 2012. If that’s the case, prospects like first baseman-third baseman Matt Davidson, left-handers Wade Miley, David Holmberg and Patrick Corbin and outfielders A.J. Pollock, Bobby Borchering and Colin Cowgill are likely being discussed. For what it’s worth, Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com hears that Parker and Cowgill, along with others, are included in the proposed talks. Stay tuned.
Source: Bob Nightengale on Twitter
Did this dude read A’s Nation this morning or something. He should be quoting me.
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Dec 9, 2011 3:01 PM PST reply actions
The Snake Pit has 7 links naming Parker as part of the deal
You’re focusing on the 1 link saying the opposite.
I can deal with annoying. But annoying and stupid is a bit much.
The monster at the end of this blog.
No doubt, I was aiming to be annoying in this post. And I obviously succeeded
But, stupid, far from it….My insight on the return we were going to get for Cahill early this AM was spot on. Followed by an actual deal of Cahill later in the afternoon, very similar to the package I had outlined this morning. NICE!
My mannerism a prism/ And it should shine
Light it if you would/ Be so kind, right now'd
Be A' Good Time
by DaRubiesSLOKingsA's on Dec 9, 2011 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
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