My Rule V Draft Preview
The 2011 MLB Rule V Draft is being held on Thursday - the A's have the 11th pick but some teams ahead of them such as the Pirates, Royals and Marlins seem to have full 40 man rosters so if it stays like this then the A's could pick 8th. Everyone knows all about the big success stories such as Josh Hamilton, Johan Santana and Dan Uggla, but the truth is it is very unlikely you will be able to unearth an All Star through the Rule V these days, especially since the eligibility was tightened in 2006 to four or five years of minor league experience depending on how old the player was when signed.
More likely teams will be looking to add a role player or an extra arm in the pen but some teams will still target raw prospects with potential in the hope of catching lightning in a bottle. This year there are a few names that will be familiar to a lot of you including former Giants 1st round pick and BA top 50 prospect Tim Alderson and Ethan Martin the Dodgers 2008 1st round pick who has struggled with his command since being drafted. Of the available A's minor leaguers Travis Banwart and Shane Peterson maybe most at risk of being drafted. The A's haven't had the best record with their Rule V picks to put it kindly but we have one spot free on their 40 man roster as long as no more signings are announced between now and Thursday so here are five players that I think we may target.
LHP Cesar Cabral - Redsox
Cabral is described as having a solid frame and smooth delivery with a fastball that sits in the 89-92 range which he can dial up to 95. His arsenal also includes a plus circle change which produces a lot of swings and misses, a slurve/curve and a slider. He has shown good control in the minors, walking 2.8 per nine over his career. In 2011 in 55 innings split between AA and AAA Cabral had a 11.5 K/9 and 3.4 BB/9. He was taken by the Rays in last season's draft but failed to stick and after a solid campaign in 2011 he seems certain to be taken again this year. Cabral doesn't turn 23 until next February.
RHP Diego Moreno - Pirates
Sickels ranked Moreno as a B- prospect and 7th on his Pirates list prior to the 2011 season - he has a fastball that can reach 98 mph, along with a mid-80s slider, and has shown good control throughout the minors (2.3 BB/9) which is quite a rare combination. In 2011 he split time between A+ and AA combining for a 9.36 K/9 and 2.5 K/BB. He was suspended in 2010 for a week for 'unprofessional conduct' which may have been a factor in him repeating A+ despite putting up a 1.71 FIP and 11.4 K/BB ratio in 2010. The Pirates have a full 40 man roster hence why he is available but I would assume he would have been in the conversation for their final spot. Moreno is 25 now and with only 18.2 inning above A+ ball would be a bit of a risk but his combination of velocity and control could make it worthwhile.
OF Erik Komatsu - Nationals
Komatsu won the Brewers 2010 Minor League Player of the Year hitting .323/.413/.442 with a 68/61 BB/K ratio .399 wOBA and 152 wRC+. He doesn't have much power (24 HR in over 1500 career PA) but Komatsu's major calling card and what will probably get him noticed by the A's front office is his plate discipline - he has a career 172/185 BB/K ratio. In 2011 he split his season between the Brewers and Nationals AA affiliates after being traded for Jerry Hairston. In 379 plate appearances for the Brewers AA team he hit .294/.393/.416 with a 53/44 BB/K ratio before slumping to a .595 OPS in 142 plate appearances with the Nationals. The Nationals have a full 40 man roster and that along with Komatsu's struggles are possibly why he is available now.
OF Kyle Russell -Dodgers
There are plenty of red flags for Russell - in AA this year he struck out in 32.2% of his plate appearances against a 10.1% walk rate. He only hit .259 this season and .245 in half a season at AA in 2010 and he is already 25. The reason he is on this list is as an outfielder with power he combines the two things this team is currently sorely lacking. He put up a .374 wOBA and hit 19 HR in 394 at bats in AA this year and 83 HR in his minor league career in just over 1,600 at bats. He will strike out a ton in the majors and will never hit for a high average but he could provide this team with some power off the bench.
CF Jiwan James - Phillies
James is a athletic centerfielder who was converted from the mound three seasons ago and still is turning his undeniable athleticism into skills. Kevin Goldstein states that James' tools 'borders on ridiculous', BA rated him as the 9th best prospect in the Phillies system recently while Sickels ranked him 20th and gave him a C grade. His performance as a 22 year old in the Sally League (A+) show that he is still incredibly raw and his power has yet to develop (0.93 ISO, 7% BB%, 20.5% K%, 93 wRC+) but he is described as having excellent speed (rated 70 on the 20-80 scale), plus range and a plus arm in center - a rebuilding team like the A's with an a dearth of outfielders could probably afford to stash him on the 25 man roster all season as a defensive replacement and pinch runner.
There we go - five players I think that the A's should and could target - Jefry Marte was originally on the list due to his potential but he is a lottery ticket and I felt these five present more realistic options. There are other intriguing players like outfielder Angel Moreles (Twins) and pitchers Nick Barnese (Rays) and Jay Jackson (Cubs) but I thought previewing five players for the Rule V Draft had a certain symmetry to it. My preference would be for taking Jiwan James but his combination of speed, defense at a premium position and large untapped potential means he probably won't be available for very long - I would look into trading up and do so if it could be done cheaply enough. If James is no longer there when the A's pick I would be inclined to take Cesar Cabral - a lefthanded reliever with above average velocity, a good array of pitches and success at AAA level wouldn't be a bad return - or Diego Moreno. If we want an outfielder then Komatsu and Russell are options.
Thoughts? Or is there anyone else you think we should target?
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nice write-up
have been looking / hoping for some Rule V posts – thanks!
"I saw a curveball, that’s about it," Rangers’ manager Ron Washington said. "You can’t take anything away from the kid; he went seven innings, but it wasn’t any shutout stuff." - Ron Washington on Gio's performance and the 7 k's.
Ideally, it would be nice to see the A's pick up anybody who can play an adequate CF
or a SP that can provide enough depth for the A’s to move one or more of their starters. I’d be okay with Jackson, Barnese, or James. I suppose they could draft a reliever and use interntal depth (Outman, Godfrey, Gray), but drafting relievers is just so damn boring.
Some of the reports on James state he has gold glove potential at CF
Komatsu plays CF at the moment but according to BA the jury is still out on whether he can stick there. I picked those two relievers as they seem to have higher potential than the Neu’s and Hernandez’s we have drafted in the past. Moreno has been described as a potential future closer.
This is the A's though
when’s the last time we actually made a decent pick in Rule V?
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 4, 2011 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
Ooooh, if he was Rule V
I didn’t think he was. His 1st season was ‘99 and he logged 9 total PAs, so he obviously wasn’t on the roster the whole year. Was he picked and then we made a trade to keep him?
Just looking through his stats, mostly pedestrian, but I didn’t realize how good his 2001 season was.
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 4, 2011 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
I believe we got Menechino in
the minor league round of the Rule 5 draft. That would have been December 1997.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Neu walked more than he K'd in his 1 year with Oakland
Terrible peripherals masked by a good ERA.
Otherwise, if we indeed picked Menechino in ‘99, that’s really the last decent Rule V pick we’ve had. Otherwise, I can’t remember anyone who’s been anything other than terrible…
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 4, 2011 7:30 PM PST up reply actions
Except Ben Copeland
He was a superstar
"Minutes from the last save opportunity...Balfour got 3 outs..."- Nico
by stranahanahan on Dec 4, 2011 7:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah Menechino was a pick in the minor league portion of the Rule V draft
In the major league portion you could say that Doug Jennings was a great pick that didn’t work out – he had put up consecutive 1.000+ OPS seasons with .450+ OBP at A+ and AA and had only just turned 23 but only only got sporadic at bats with the A’s (Eric Walker – the A’s original stat guru puts some of the blame on LaRussa not willing to make proper use of him). This was back in 1988 and I am clutching at straws a bit here.
I think they had bigger fish to fry in 1988 than worrying about developing Rule 5 picks
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2011 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Oh for sure
When people look back on LaRussa’s career – I don’t think too much time will be spent on analysing how well he handled Doug Jennings
Ah those were the days.....(sigh)
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 7, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
The only game I've ever seen in person at Angels Stadium,
Doug Jennings had the game-winning hit. Ergo, Doug Jennings is totally cool.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I remember one of the first games my dad took me to Doug Jennings was starting in place of McGwire
You can imagine how disappointed an 8 year would be when he was looking forward to seeing Mark McGwire in person and ends up watching Doug Jennings instead. I seem to remember we were pretty close to 1B that game too.
E Martin
I think there is an exception that may apply to Martin as he was injured his first year (knee?) and missed the season. He may not be eligible for this rule 5 draft but if he is, he would be an interesting bullpen arm.
by kimo from kauai on Dec 3, 2011 11:57 PM PST reply actions
I don't think there are any definative official lists and the rules are pretty convoluted so it is certainly possible Martin is not eligible
But I don’t think there is any injury exemption rule – if there isn’t then Ynoa could be eligible next year. Martin was 19 when signed, although he was 18 when drafted, so I am assuming he is eligible, but his control has been pretty atrocious (6.5 BB/9 in 2011, 6.1 career) I can’t see him being effective in the majors at the moment, but the talent is there so it wouldn’t surprise me to see someone take a chance on him, if he is eligible.
check this site
News Hound has a good list of potential players for the Rule 5 draft,
http://baseballnewshound.com/?p=1908
They do show Ethan Martin as eligible.
by kimo from kauai on Dec 4, 2011 7:52 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks - that is a great site
Especially the draft tracker page that lists every available prospect from each organisation. Not sure how the list was compiled but I would assume the author would have just gone through every organisation noting when players were drafted so there may still be mistakes but it is an excellent starting point. The question mark over Martin is regarding the rules on age of the player – I have seen it as the age a player was when signed, in which case he would be eligible as he signed the day after his 19th birthday, and I have seen it as the players age as of June 5th in which case Martin would not be eligible – his birthday is the 6th.
The downside to taking a player in Rule V
is that you have to keep him on the roster all year. But since we’re so empty in the outfield this year, and we’re presumably in a rebuilding year anyway, if ever there were a time to take a gamble on a toolsy outfielder — like maybe Jiwan James — 2012 seems like this is the year to do it.
I hope they at least select him. If we somehow stumble into three decent outfielders and a good backup fourth, then OK we can give him back. But it seems likely we’re going to have gaps in the outfield anyway, so why not give it a try?
At the very least, even if he sits on the bench all year long, it’s a way to stock the farm system at the cost of wins this year. Isn’t that the same as everyone wants to do with losing games for a higher draft position?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
In my view, the point of Rule V is not to find
a player who will be better this year, but rather to find a player who is good enough we can tolerate him on the roster in order to have him for years to come.
No, James would not be an upgrade over Mitchell or Miller, but if he’s not that much of a downgrade, we can hope to have him and Jermaine Mitchell in 2013-2016.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
By the way, I'm pretty sure it's "Rule 5", not "Rule V".
It comes from the MLB rules. I’m at work right now, so I can’t access my copy, but I remember it being a paragraph 5.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
This is correct
I feel like this gets raised every year and people just kind of shrug and move along. Rule V does look cooler though, and I think there’s something to be said for that.
the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy
by walk off bunt on Dec 7, 2011 1:23 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe we should ask mike5 about this.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Interestingly enough, on the motorcycle forum that I participate in
That’s exactly what’s happened and I’m pretty much called Mike Five since there are a bunch of guys named Mike.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
I think "Mike Five" whenever I read "mikev"
But it’s still spelled with the V; it would look wrong with a 5.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
That's actually why my twitter handle is
fifthmike
I was late to the twitter thing and everything else was taken.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
ANd now, every tweet ever tweeted is being sent to the Library of Congress.
So much for personal privacy.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Not really, but the very idea that the gummint keeping tabs on everything is real scary
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Probably, but to keep them in the archives forever?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Odd
I’ve literally never once thought this.
Probably because there used to be a mikeA here, and A is not a roman numeral.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Mike mentioned it before, many years ago.
That’s why I read it that way. Before then, I don’t know that I thought about it either way.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I have to say, mikev, that everytime I see you comment,
I think of the SciFy “V”. Makes me wonder if you might be part of AN alien invasion. [just what DO you do in your mom’s basement?]
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Evidently this is the list of eligibles
Travis Banwart, Josh Horton, Jon Joseph, Tyler Ladendorf, Jared Lansford, Petey Paramore, Shane Peterson
Last of the Ninth - Photography
It's also the list of
“Wow, that guy is still around? I had forgotten we even had him.”
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I guess he might have a little value
But I would be pretty shocked if he managed to stick on a big league roster for the whole season.
Yeah.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s picked, but if he is I think he’d get returned before long.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
He posted a 113 wRC+ in AAA this year at age 23.
He doesn’t have a broad set of tools or anything, but he’s performed well. If the A’s outfield situation was any clearer, I don’t think I’d have a problem using him as a 4th OF.
I agree.
Given his abilities, I would think he has a good change of sticking all season with a team that selects him, likely as a 4th OF type. He profiles much more as a solid bench player pick than a high-risk, high-reward type that could hurt a team if he doesn’t break out.
Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!
I think his lack of a stand-out tool will make it harder to stash him while he adjusts
No real platoon split, doesn’t have power, not fast enough to be a very effective pinch-runner, and while he has some defensive versatility in the outfield I don’t think he would be of much use as a defensive replacement.
I agree that he might have a future as a good 4th outfielder, but I doubt he’ll be a good 4th outfielder this year with only 46 games at AAA under his belt. If he doesn’t perform right away I don’t think another team will be willing to keep him on the roster all year for the pay-off of Peterson one day developing into a decent bench player. A guy who can do a lot of things pretty good but nothing great is a useful bench player but really not all that hard to find.
Basically I just think that Peterson lacks the experience or tools to succeed right away, and that he doesn’t have the upside to be worth carrying on the roster if he’s not performing.
I wouldn't mind grabbing Thomas Pham from St. Louis
Another athletic outfielder but he has had some success at AA while battling injuries so the jump to the Majors may not be too hard for him.
Well done!!! BA didn't have him on their list, and he looks pretty good to me.
I’m confused why the Cards would protect Shane Robinson or Mark Hamilton over this guy.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 6, 2011 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
yes, good find.
He looks solid and seems to have enough tools to where he could be a decent enough backup OF.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 7, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Pham is a very good shout
Toolsy outfielder that has performed well in 300 PA at AA over the past two seasons. As you say he has been injury prone and missed most of 2011 due to a wrist injury. However if he had been healthy the whole time he probably wouldnt be available here. I would be pretty happy if we ended up taking him.
injured would be even better, stash him on the 60 day
We yet enjoy little to be envied, but endure much to be pitied.-Thomas Dudley
To keep a Rule 5 pick,
he has to be active for at least 90 days. So if a guy is on the 60-day DL for half the season, the requirement of being on the 25-man roster would extend into his next season.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
If I'm just gonna go with a projectable arm and see what happens
I like how Caleb Brewer from the Braves’ system profiles. If I’m going with an outfielder because they definitely have room to store an outfielder this year, I like the suggestion of Pham above. Someone like Komatsu doesn’t seem appreciably different from Peterson, and James seems just too far away from being potentially useful to stash and develop. I always like the idea of seeing what a guy like Russell can do if you just throw him out there, but it tends to play out the same way every time.
the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy
how about
Does Nobody work?
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Slusser says they selected nobody because they wanted roster flexibility.
But couldn’t they have just drafted Jiwan James or Tommy Pham, and then if they acquired some young CF who they need to add to the 40-man, send James or Pham back? It seems like a very minor inconvenience, and I don’t see the point of not drafting anybody.
There's a $25,000 price tag for each wasted pick.
That’s not much by MLB standards, but it’s still enough to stop you from taking guys that you have no intention of keeping (which is exactly why the price is there in the first place).
If the A’s feel pretty certain they’re going to fill up that 40th roster slot with someone else, why throw away the money?
*The actual price is $50,000 for each pick, but you get half of it back if you return the guy.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Because 25,000 is simply peanuts
It’s probably less than a plane flight for the team to an away game.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
this
the last few years we have picked some( like the pitcher from the slegnAs), only to return them at the end of ST.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
So this suggests to me that this year
the A’s have plans for that roster slot.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Cloning Sweeney?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not to Japan.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

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