Baseball Nation's Analysis on the Gio Gonzalez Trade and more
by baseballgirl on Dec 23, 2011 8:55 AM PST
Email
PrintSB Nation's Baseball Nation put up a trade analysis, as well as a comparison from last year to this year's off-seasons. The piece, aptly titled: Gio Gonzalez Trade: Digging Out From Under 50 Feet Of Crap, reminds us that last year at this time, the A's traded for Josh Willingham and David DeJesus, and bought Hideki Matsui. The A's were attempting to contend when it just all fell apart; they lost games early last year they had no business losing. Their defense was abysmal; players they counted on to have at least an average season were subpar, and the offense took three months to even show a flicker of life. But we had young, stud pitchers in our starting rotation; it would all be okay, right?
From the article:
And less than a year later, the A's are looking to forge a brand new pitching staff. Brett Anderson went from a pitcher with a sub-3.00 ERA and preternatural walk rate to a Dr. James Andrews patient. Trevor Cahill went from a first-half sensation to a second-half collapse that made the A's think those two birds in the bush might be better after all. And once Cahill went, there wasn't much sense in keeping Gio Gonzalez around, especially when his trade value had a lot to do with the remaining years on his contract.
This article lays it out in the most direct (albeit, painful) of ways, just in case you have ever wondered what the hell did happen to last season. Worth a read, as we continue to discuss the Gio Gonzalez trade.
As for Gio himself; we will miss you! Thank you for all you have done for the Oakland A's, and thank you for your appreciation of the Oakland fans.
224 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
That wasn't much of a trade analysis
A succinct re-cap of what happened last year but “not-flotsam” isn’t a very informative look at the trade.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Well, I wasn't trying to analyze the trade.
Just saying I liked the plan the A’s had last year, and I’m disappointed they ditched the blueprint (though I understand why).
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 23, 2011 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
I have to ask, what blueprint?
We had no offense, and no true hitters in the internal pipeline. The only option to continue, was to spend lots of money in the FA market.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
The only option to continue, was to spend lots of money in the FA market.
I think the Frank Thomas method of signing an aging slugger to DH is great for a team in the A’s position. It just didn’t work out that well. Also, giving up mediocre prospects for above-average hitters in their walk year is also a pretty good strategy for a team that has a solid-to-fantastic rotation.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 23, 2011 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I just didn’t think we had enough of the core players to make this method work. To fill the core players from outside the organization would require too much money.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
It didn't work in 2009 or in 2007 either
Frank Thomas is about the only time it DID work. It’s not a cost-efficient strategy; most of what you’re paying for is name recognition, not surviving talent.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
10 seconds after I posted I realized...
People were probably going to think I was criticizing your piece when in fact I was being critical of BBG for misrepresenting the story.
One day there will be an EDIT function. Until then, accept my apology for any unintended slight.
As for the blueprint, it made sense then but one of the underlying parts of last year’s plan was the hope that one of Carter or Taylor would emerge for 2012. That didn’t work out so well, either.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Ah.
I used to be in love with Taylor as a prospect. Still hoping …
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 23, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
yes!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Father, Grant us this wish.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
by Tutu-late on Dec 23, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Our system sure took a hit when he moved on.
He would have been in Oakland last season, right?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
more like this year or next, but yeah, he woulda been close
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Wow.
Choice/Desme/Taylor. Sounds like a pretty good outfield.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
We can't have nice things.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
i'd be super appreciative if g-d transferred some of desme's ability to taylor so he can return to his b+/a- prospect status. we're not owed anything but it'd be really nice thing to do.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
You never know.
He works in mysterious ways. GRANT Green may become a beast yet
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
also true...micahel taylor seems like a good kid with a great attitude. deserving?
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
We need to really work the beads.
I actually look at Desme as an awakening. If he had stayed, we might never have gotten rid of oldbob, nor entered this rebuilding stage.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Was it Einstein who came up with the "Twig in the river" theory?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
We spoke with him at ST '10.
He really is a nice young man. I always want to see the nice guys succeed. Especially with all the A-Rods getting the press.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
oh that's cool. he seems like a level headed kid in every interview or video i've seen
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
He and Gio are very similar.
and Taylor is HUGE! He makes Carter seem small next to him.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
it's my dream scenario. brandon allen, chris carter and michael taylor all starting in the majors. nobody would ever throw at one of our players. ever.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
except Zooks...
of course, he’d swing and miss
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
A-Rod was pretty nice
when he was in the minors. Even his first couple years with the Mariners he was still OK.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Another issue with trying the Plan again is a lack of suitable trade targets
The crop of 1 year rentals isn’t too attractive. The A’s traded scraps for DDJ and Willingham.
Guys like Swisher, Upton, Hamilton, Hunter, Either, Victorino, Bourn are instrumental to the 2012 plans of their current teams. They’d cost a lot to acquire.
Angel Pagan and Carlos Quentin might have been the best of the options to try a follow-up. Kinda meh on those two.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I was amazed ...
That Andres Torres didn’t make his way to the A’s. Seems like a total Beane player.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 23, 2011 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
crisp
I thought coco was supposed to go to the Giants. He seemed like the perfect fit and it would be awesome to still be able to watch him play, even if it were for the other side..
Falcon Punch!
by falconsfury on Dec 23, 2011 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure they really had a successful blueprint when it involved not having a very impressive farm system combined with...
…having to try to overpay for quality hitters, ending up with something less in the end that often winds up as one-year rentals that underperform.
Especially with the way the Angels and Rangers are looking, plus the seemingly imminent ballpark decision, I think they finally figured out that it was time to actually, really do a true rebuild instead of half-assing it while trying to compete in a perceived weak division.
Their efforts to straddle the fence have hurt them, in my eyes.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
The farm system isn't as dreadful as it's made out to be
There’s talent in place, but thus far it hasn’t developed.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I mean more in the general sense over the past few years
It’s getting better, though.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Care to elaborate?
I see very little of any use.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Not really
Given your stance that development doesn’t exist for hitters, I can’t think of any way to elaborate that doesn’t end in a total waste of time.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Dec 23, 2011 8:04 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed that the blueprint was imperfect ...
The most important part was a farm system, and they weren’t doing so hot with that. But I still liked the idea of getting competent hitters behind Anderson/Cahill/Gio/Braden (with McCarthy coming out of nowhere), and I wouldn’t have faulted them for trying it one more time. Was kind of looking forward to it, actually.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 23, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Sure, I would have liked to see them do that as well
That was a rotation I’d put up against just about anyone else’s.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I lurk
Secret sort-of-A’s fan and all.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 23, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Makes for nice symmetry,
since AN is run by a sort-of-Giants fan.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
There's no money to make up for mistakes
And there have been a lot of mistakes in picking talent over the last several years. Also a lot of bad luck. I’ll still go to games, but mostly just to see good baseball talent on the other side of the dugout.
The A’s are going to be woeful for awhile. The plus side is that they’ll have high draft picks for a couple to three years. Billy Beane is neither a miracle worker nor horrible and he should be able to find some real talent with a couple of top 5 picks. Maybe by 2016 or so the A’s will be playoff contenders. Here’s to hope.
there's a saying that
“winning trumps all”. Do you think that if and when the A’s plans pan out with a new stadium in SJ in 2015 and a young talented team contending for the pennant that everyone will forgive and forget the past 10 years of suck?
This can kind of be applied to the Giants especially with Bonds and big name free agent signings that were supposed to make them perennial champs. Zito and Armando come to mind. Then again the Giants always seem to draw a crowd and never receive any real negative backlash like the A’s get even with all their bad moves and past teams. It really ticked me off listening to Kruk and Kuip make their giants seem like they could ever do no wrong. sry that’s my Giants rant.
Falcon Punch!
by falconsfury on Dec 23, 2011 10:32 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
That happens in all kinds of two team markets too
It’s just particularly frustrating in the bay area. The Giants have NOT made particularly great moves in the long run. They just got lucky on some older players.
That’s why I liked this write up. If DeJesus, Willingham and Matsui work out and the pitching staff stays healthy, there’s a contender there. The Rangers and Angels took a good long time to warm up. There was opportunity. The dies just rolled snake eyes.
Look at the year the Giants won the World Series. Aubrey Huff, Pat Burrell, Edgar Renterria. It’s not like that’s a high powered offense here. A bunch of old retreads behind a quality starting staff.
by mizzousundevil on Dec 23, 2011 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
are they going to trade bailey for a bat?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
more likely they'll trade him for more pitching prospects
and perhaps a position player that the A’s have always liked
The Rangers seem to very stingy with Olt.
He’s blocked for gosh’s sake! Trade him!
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
They could keep him till midseason or put him at 1B if Moreland doesn't work out
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
I seem to recall a blurb about the organization being high on Moreland.
Not that that means anything, but given their lack of interest in Rizzo, I’m inclined to believe it.
"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."
I don't see why they would be.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2011 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
What Happens To The Rotation Now?
Are Parker and Peacock immediately going to be thrust in a starting role? Braden may be ready by April, so will he lead the rotation? When will Anderson come back? What’s the deal with Outman and Ross? Is McCarthy going to return?
If McCarthy does come back, will the rotation look kind of like this on Opening Day?
1) Braden
2) McCarthy
3)Ross
4) Outman
5) Parker/Peacock/Other prospect
As of this instant, if Braden was healthy, I would like the rotation to look like this:
1. McCarthy
2. Braden
3. Moscoso
4. Outman
5. Milone
I’m going to wait until Ross actually does well somewhere before he gets a spot. Parker, Peacock, and Gray all need AAA time, and it also saves some service time. If Braden’s not ready, I’d opt for Parker. He’s the most polished of the three, and I’d like to see Peacock work on a changeup in Sacramento.
If Braden's not ready, slot Ross.
You’ve also got Graham Godfrey on the 40 man. Give PP&G the AAA time they need.
(Plus save on the service time.)
On another topic… I think the A’s rotation shouldn’t be stacked from best to least. The 3rd and 4th SP should be switched. Here’s the rational:
In a 3 game series your Top 3 SP go. In the next 3 game series only 1 of them gets to face the opposition. In a 4/3 stagger, 2 of your Top 3 SP will face the opposition in both series.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I would think there's a chance neither Braden nor Ross will be ready
Braden physically, and Ross seemed so messed up post-injury that it’s anyone’s guess what we’ll see in spring training.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
In which case I'm for Godfrey as 5th starter in the beginning
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
I still think the A's will sign a couple of free agents as roster filler
I think the A’s can do better than Godfrey by waiting until the dust clears and spending a little of the revenue sharing money to raise the team payroll.
I guess they could bring back Rich Harden
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
I heard he was talking to a couple of other clubs already.
Not sure if he’s interested in coming back to the A’s for one more round. I’d be ok with that, though, just for the “How many starts will Harden make?” game.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
I pick "7"
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
I say "11"
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
what grover and Nate said...
we kind of covered that in last night’s thread. Kepp the young arms fresh and off the clock until 2013 if at all possible. At this point I am more inclined to see the team get at bats to all of the guys like Taylor, Carter, Allen, Barton etc…..and let them go thru growing pains, (and more than likely suck) rather than wasting service time for our new young guns like we did with Cahill and Anderson in 09’ trying to win with an inferior offense.
it just has to be “a plan now” to audition for the future to see what we have going forward on offense, draft really high, (and well) take it on the chin, and reload for a couple of years from now…
Right now. the pitching looks pretty set moving forward. I think we’ll have a better idea where things stand after the A’s trade Bailey and see who their first several picks are in the 2012 draft. No doubt we need bats and I hope that is where the emphasis is for the A’s in the early rounds of the draft. More importantly, I think we can all agree that we need to see what we have in the guys already in the system, then have a plan moving forward to become relevant again in the AL West.
Go A’s!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
You keep a player in the minors until he's ready
Then you bring him up when there’s an opening. That’s how it works. You don’t wait for “the clock” unless it’s maybe for a month or two.
Then you shouldn't trade guys for minor leaguers for "clock" reasons either
If you’re going to trade Cahill for Parker just because his clock is ticking then you shouldn’t start his clock ticking
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I see both points of view
but I’m going with “keep the clock on snooze….”.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Be sure the volume is up though, Otherwise you might oversleep
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
But I love to sleep
and alarms are for the employed…..
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
and just to reiterate a point
Nether Cahill or Anderson were “ready to start in 2009”. It was more necessity and poor planning t that point.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
If winning series actually had any meaning, this might be a good strategy...
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Breaking it up by series was the best way I could think of to illustrate the point
Winning every series = winning lots of games. Conversely, throwing your 3 best SP against the Yankees leaves you sending you 2 weakest SP against Boston.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Braden, McCarthy, Outman, Ross, Anderson
all with significant injury histories and/or concerns.
The A’s will likely need at least 10 starting pitchers, if not more (10 is on the low side), between the MLB club and Sacramento, in order to make it through the 2012 season.
i don't think anderson and braden will be ready out of spring training.
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
I don't either. Anderson for sure won't
My point is that all the pitchers I listed cannot be really counted on to remain healthy for all of a season, maybe not even half of it.
at least the first third of the season is going to be brutal
the artist formerly known as inbillywetrust
Peacock and Parker are already on the 40 man
They’re just a phone call away.
Or an e-mail.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Outman's injuries are probably behind him at this point
Anderson seems like another Harden
Braden should be healthy all season once he’s actually back
McCarthy, yeah he’ll miss time. Seems like he figured out how to avoid significant injury by shutting down early though. So I expect him to miss maybe 8 starts or so.
Ross, yes I’d be worried about him going forward as his mechanics are always going to scream injury.
So yeah, could see a lot of Rivercats shuttling back and forth.
by Maverick10126 on Dec 23, 2011 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
This is why CA needs high speed rail
How else are the A’s going to get their players back and forth from Sacramento to Oakland fast enough?
by mizzousundevil on Dec 23, 2011 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Graham Godfrey should get a shot at a starting spot
He didn’t exactly overwhelm in his cup of coffee call up last season, but he is 27, and in Sacramento went 14-3 with 2.68 ERA. His 1.14 WHIP was the lowest of any River Cat pitcher with a significant amount of starts. Throw him out there, see how he does, at least until the younger pitching prospects get some work in the minors. Plus, I’d like to think that we got something from the Scutaro trade.
Left or right?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Probably blue...
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Rotation
From MLB Depth Charts
Starting Rotation
1 RHP Brandon McCarthy
2 RHP Guillermo Moscoso
3 LHP Josh Outman
4 RHP Brad Peacock
5 LHP Tom Milone
Will Braden be healthy in time?
I'm guessing no for Opening Day, maybe yes for May
Interesting that T. Ross is not included.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well he was terrible in AFL. It's not clear whether he's even healthy
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
That's what I'm wondering
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would like a DH with that nickname, though.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
oaklandathletics.com just changed the background to Jemile
it used to be Bailey. I think it had been Bailey for a while. Most likely just a coincidence but if someone thought Bailey might actually be traded it seems like they’d remove him from the official website’s background
I noticed this as well!
reminds me of the day the Raiders removed JaWalrus Russell from the website and released him that same day, lol
by RememberDurazo on Dec 23, 2011 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Huh?
I still have Suzuki
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Dec 23, 2011 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Godfrey pitched well last year
He’s deserving of consideration for the starting rotation
Well, we know one of the corresponding roster moves from the trade
Powell DFA’d, per SuSlu: http://twitter.com/susanslusser
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I'm not even sure why they kept him.
We seem to have plenty of catchers to play backup, who aren’t 30 years old.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Yes, plenty of catchers...
but Powell is the only one who can block the plate. Our prissy regular is more concerned with getting his uniform dirty.
by Flamethrower on Dec 23, 2011 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, the one who wasn't stupid enough to take it on the chin like Posey.
Posey, the guy who blocked the plate, and missed the rest of the season. Wait, Zooks isn’t so prissy after all…hmmm!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
Damn you A’s. I hate the Giants, but I’m forced to watch them, just so I can know what if feels like to watch an actual baseball team. A team that is always on the same radio station. A team that has at least some of its same players year after year. It kills me that the team I love is unwatchable and plays in a crappy stadium. At least I don’t waste my money going to games anymore…
If I still lived in the Bay Area,
I’d be spending as much time as possible in that crappy stadium, watching the team that I love. Because I love them, and that’s what you do if you’re emotionally invested in a team. You support them. Even when they suck. Even if you think the owner is a douche. Even if they lose a hundred fucking games. Were you around in 1979? Because this is paradise by comparison. Paradise, I tells ya.
Oh, and the Giants? Fuck the Giants.
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter! Batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!!!
by CmdrKhraanik on Dec 23, 2011 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 21 recs
Cmdr's comment is so full of gold nuggets,...
IT MUST BE TURNED GREEN!!!!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
I did me part
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know what I want to rec more, your comment or your sig.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
I was there in 1979
I spent a lot of my paper route money on BART tickets and bleacher seats. The problem is that now every day is beginning to look more and more like 1979. At least back then we had Dwayne Murphy, Tony Armas, and Ricky Henderson. Now there’s nobody who can hit or play the field. (Play the field, what a concept!) We put all of our hope in some future pitching prospects and hope they can give us decent performances before they become arbitration eligible and are shipped off for more pitching prospects. This time, however, there probably won’t be be a Billy Martin and then a Walter Haas to turn things around.
Yeah, it ain't gonna be pretty,
but I don’t think it’s quite as grim as the late 70s. And you’re right, the turnaround won’t be nearly as dramatic as 80-81. But things will get better. Please, oh Gods of Baseball, prove me right!
Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter! Batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!!!
by CmdrKhraanik on Dec 23, 2011 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Remember this moment
If and when you ever doubt that throwing left-handed is a vital skill to have in baseball.
The monster at the end of this blog.
And in Abbott's case, it even made up for the fact he had to use it to catch with, as well.
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."-anonymous
"i guess i just like beer"-stm
I'm at least interested to see what Doolittle looks like as a pitcher
He was pretty good at it in college (I think he was viewed as roughly a 3rd round talent on the mound).
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
That being said, it might make sense to outright him now and put him back on the 40-man at season's end if he shows anything
in order to preserve an option year.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Doolittle
How many games will the A’s be playing in NL parks this year? Was thinking if Doolittle can show anything as a pitcher, he might be a great 25 man on a team. OK, maybe not this year, and maybe not for an AL team.
…..But if he is a better hitter than all the other pitchers on the team, a better defensive first baseman than any other player on the team and can come in and get an out or two from the pen …..that would be a very nice thing for some teams.
I like the out of the box thinking
Jack of all trades sort a guy………plus he could be an emergency bullpen arm? That would be fun to see.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Interesting
A reverse Rick Ankiel situation, eh?
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Not exactly
Ankiel’s problems on the mound were all in his head. Doolittle’s problem is his knee.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Jai Miller DFAd
Via Slussers twitter.
by Dub_TC on Dec 23, 2011 6:33 PM PST via Android app reply actions
I get it
So they are getting rid of every player who’s name has one consonant and two vowels: Gio, Jai
by Flamethrower on Dec 23, 2011 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Does anyone think Jai Miller would have done anything in the bigs?
37.7 % strikeout rate in AAA last year in 475 PA. I did want to see if he could continue to hit for power, but doesn’t seem like Beane type of guy, even with a .368 OBP.
Probably not, but he had an outside shot at being a decent backup CF.
Looks like it’s part of Beane’s plan to have 38 pitchers on the 40 man roster
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 8:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Better Question..
Why let Powell and Miller go when Neil Wagner and Jordan Noberto still have 40 man spots?
With Powell I'd assume it's because
Suzuki, Donaldson, and Norris are there and the latter two will make league minimum. The fact that Powell won’t make league minimum is enough to let him go.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Didnt think of that.
It makes sense. Sucks for him that he never got to play since we ride Suzuki so hard.
It's a shame Suzuki was overworked period
I guess Powell was caught somewhat in a “don’t hit because I don’t play, don’t play because don’t hit” vicious circle, but there’s no real evidence that he could hit if he played more. Chances are that he just isn’t that good a hitter.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So we really don't know what Powell is as a player
except a backup catcher that should get a shot at a platoon role.
I see him probably as a "defensive specialist who can't hit or run"
Basically a good “pinch catcher” for those times when Dave Roberts is at 1B in the 9th inning of a close game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There are alternatives
Not just Recker and Donaldson. At this point, you can sign Ivan Rodriguez as your back-up catcher and part-time DH. None of these guys are the catcher of the future, and you’ve got Suzuki in the present. Powell can’t hit enough to DH and he has no future, not really. And he can’t play regularly if Suzuki is hurt.
Wagner could make the pen, and would probably get picked up by someone
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
Wagner could.. Noberto I dont know
Given our OF situation, shouldn’t we see what we have in Miller? Just for a shot. Hell, we gave LaRoche way too many ABs. Doesn’t Miller at least deserve the same?
I think Miller has a shot at clearing waivers, whereas Wagner didn't. I can't explain
why Norberto, Figueroa and Doolittle are on the roster
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 9:46 PM PST up reply actions
When he says,
“We’re trying to collect as many young players as we can,” Beane said. “I think that’s our best long-term strategy.”
I just wish he had said “…as many good young players as we can” ;-)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well in that case he wouldn't have traded Gio and Cahill. What he means is "we're trying
to collect as many cheap young players as we can"
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
I wish it was The TB or TOR GM working for the A's and building a team for us
In other words, someone that knows what they are doing.
I wish that too, but those guys already have the jobs they want
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
Hypothetical question
If Brett hadn’t hurt his arm and threw 180+ typical Brett Anderson innings and the team won, say, only 3-5 more games, would he have been the first one traded this off season?
MexicAN AmericAN VegAN
If he was healthy right now
I would imagine Beane would put a team around that rotation. But with the stadium situation looming and little revenue and fan interest, it is the club’s best interest to sell high right now and hope for tomorrow.
The best thing about this sell off is it could force MLB to FUCKING FINALLY act on the situation so it doesn’t become a Marlins situation.
IMO Brett Anderson has the potential to be better than Gio and Cahill
if he comes back as planned.
I always thought he had better stuff than those two and if he’s healthy and comes back in the second half then we may see how good he is for 2013 season. This being the case, I would not trade him.
Brett had his meltdowns but his arm was always getting fucked up. The other two had their meltdowns and usually in games against Texas and Yankees etc. Cahill did pitch well against Texas for the most part though,
Just my opinion but had Anderson not had TJ problem and had stayed healthy all along, I think he would easily be a 20 game winner and dominate lineups by 2012 and onward.
Let’s hope so.
Trading suzuki?
Is his leadership and game calling ability that invaluable to a young staff?
Since he signed his extension, I assume A’s expected much more than two sub .700 ops seasons. They probably have donaldson and recker ready to go as replacements and norris maybe in late 2012. Would you consider trading suzuki, who plays at a scarce mlb position and would probably some trade value, not alot.?
You bet I'd trade him. They don't have to be stuck with Recker or Donaldson either
They could pick up Matt Treanor or someone like that.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 23, 2011 11:34 PM PST up reply actions
Suzuki is an enigma to me. Watching him hit (eye test warning), he swings really fucking hard,
but still only K’s at an 11.2% rate, which is incredibly good. If he suddenly decided to take a contact-first approach, I honestly think he’d become Placido Polanco. I wish someone would sit him down and tell him that. I think it would help.
(Draws straws.....NateHST draws shortest straw)
Well looks like you get the honor of sitting downwith Zooks Nate! Go get em’!
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Billy's comments
depressing. how many more rebuilding jobs will we do?
once ever year or two, would be my guess
by robertmelvin on Dec 24, 2011 2:45 AM PST up reply actions
No. The gap is getting shorter and shorter. By 2020 we'll be rebuilding every week.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2011 8:53 AM PST up reply actions
I can't find a link or anything to see where the rumor originated
but I’m seeing talk on twitter that the A’s are wanting Leonys Martin from Texas for Bailey. Makes sense that Beane would target position players considering were only able to net 2 (only one with any real upside) in the Cahill/Gio trades. I don’t see Texas trading Martin for a closer though.
Ya, the only reason they'd trade Martin for a closer is if they're going to get Cespedes.
And even then I’d want more than just Bailey.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2011 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Howdy. Nat's fan here
…checking in to see how ya’ll are feeling. I’d say most on our side think this was a square deal – both sides benefit, and nobody got mugged.
I likes me some Gio, but he did not come cheap. I’ve seen Tommy Milone and Brad Peacock pitch in Nat’s Stadium, and in the bushes as well (our A, A+, and AA affiliates are all w/in a one-hour drive of DC). They are both for real, and since we got only 56 days and a wake-up until pitchers and catchers report, you will see for yourselves soon enough.
Oh yeah, you’ll be liking some Derek Norris too. No prissy catcher, Norris grew up catching – as did I – and he’s got some pop in his bat too.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!
PS Buster Posey got his leg broke because his feet weren’t set right. Check the vid. Big young’un started catching in college [spit]. They stuck him behind the dish because he has a good arm and he hits, but he has dick for moves and no technique. He tried to take that hit like a man, but he failed. What d’ye expect from a candy-ass SF Giant?
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
From a value perspective the deal was fine for the A's. From the perspective of "is this the right way
to rebuild?" I’d rather have no pitchers and all position players. From the Nats perspective, I think they’re a WC contender, especially if Harper can do something toward the end of the year.
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2011 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
NL East is a tough division
…and getting tougher. We have strengthened ourselves this winter and the Fish have greatly improved. Only weak sister now is the dog-ass Mets, whose principal accomplishment was to borrow $40M so they could make payroll.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Thank'ee
Hey, why’d ya’ll let Josh go, money? The Hammer was a popular player here, but injury-prone. He signed with the Twinkies t’other day. I wish him well.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
I think it comes down to "building only for 2014 and beyond"
and Willingham didn’t fit into those plans. Which makes sense, but I really liked having him in the lineup. Oh well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They didn't want him for more than a year, maybe two max
I liked having him here and he liked being here, but he got a 3-year deal and was smart to take it (even if it was for less than I thought it’d be).
Last of the Ninth - Photography
The Hammer was only one of 13 men in the entire history of baseball
to hit two slammers in one game. But you knew that. No matter. I just love to say it. I damn near tear up, just remembering it.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Hiya, danmerq
…by God, you stopped by the Nat’s blog t’other day.
Yeah, I once lived in LA for 8 yrs. Followed the Dodgers, and developed a dislike for the Giants – and for Los Angeles too, come to think – that I’ve never gotten over.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
You can stop by these parts any old time, Whupass!
Plus, I love your screen name! Hope you Nat fans appreciate our Gio….his best days are ahead of him and we will miss him so make sure y’all give him some love.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Thank'ee again
Yeah, I got a feeling Gio’s our kind of guy and will fit right into the Nat’s clubhouse. Once he gets under the tutelage of Steve McCatty – best pitching coach to ever crap between two shoes – Gio’s control will get better too. Hell, The ’Cat got Henry Rodriquez (aka Lightning Rod and MPHRod) to throw strikes, so Gio will too. Man, I feel good about this deal.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Whether he pitches well or great, you should love Gio
Great guy, as well as a pitcher with awesome stuff to watch when he’s on.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You're gonna love you some Tommy Milone and Brian Peacock too
I saw Milone’s first MLB start, vs the Mets. He ain’t fast, but his control is remarkable. Retired the first six batters, and in his very first ML at-bat (this is NL, mind – we play real baseball, with no DH), Milone hit a 3-run homer. First AB. Three. Run. Homer. The packed house rose as one with a raucous O, and needless to say Tommy – who’s a quiet and modest kid – was shoved outa’ the dugout for a curtain-call. We won the game with a walk-off homer by Zimm, but as well as he pitched, Milone didn’t notch the W.
Ax me, Peacock is actually the better pitcher of the two. Excellent control, but more power. He’s a good’un, I tell ye’. Brad’s parents – who’re nice folks, and as blue-collar as they make ’em – came to every game he pitched, home and away, and so proud they could bust.
This trade’s a big break for these two young’uns, because if they’d stayed here, best they could’a done in 2012 would’a been to fight it out for a #5 slot. In Oakland, they both have a realistic chance to crack the starting rotation – in fact, I’m confident they both will.
Well, as I said, I likes me some Gio, but he did not come to us cheap.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
My gut feeling is that Milone will wind up being the "hidden gem"
in the deal. Not that he’ll be the best pitcher (he’d better not be!) but he seems like the kind of guy the A’s target, and say “he has to be included,” for good reason. If he “surprises everyone” by being a really solid #3 starter, and Cole/Peacock live anywhere near up to their potential, it could be a great deal for OAK. And you know what you’re getting, which is a very good pitcher, and those are obviously quite valuable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good point. A healthy McCarthy would be an awesome "4th player" in a trade!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Great....I didn't realize Steve McCatty was your pitching coach over there.
Good for him.
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Both candy and dog asses
Looking forward to seeing what more there are!
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
This is great; thanks for the day-brightener
Now we can haz Zimmerman? (Ryan, not Jordan)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
JZimm (spelled Zimmermann w/two "n"s because his Kraut ancestors are more recently arrived)
…is also a top hand. Had TJ surgery in 2010, and was under an innings limit in 2011 – but bounced nicely with a 3.18 ERA. In 2012, Strasburg will be under the innings limit, so I figure JZimm will be our ace. Gio will fit in mighty nice in the #3 slot.
Yeah, this year we gotta’ extend Ryan Zimm’s contract. Make him a Nat for life. Probably get a 10-12 year deal worth all the land east of the Mississippi.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
So you'll move Rendon to 2B?
tko bira, masturbira -- Croatian proverb quoted by elcroata
by WaddellCanseco on Dec 24, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Or they'll move the land east of the Mississippi
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Some believe we got Rendon precisely for "Zimm insurance"
…in case he walks in 2013. If Zimm stays, and Rendon pans out…well, we’ll find ourselves on the horns of a dilemma – the kind you like to have – since 2B is the property of Danny Espinosa. Rizzo may tweet up Billy Beane. See who he has to deal.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Oh man...I would love to have Ryan Zimmerman at the hot corner...
"You're early, but hang around; we'll have a fight for you sooner or later."
-John "Blue Moon" Odom
Two generations
I think folks are looking at the rebuild the wrong way. There are two generations of rebuilding going on here. The first generation will be in place by mid-season 2012 and will be either successful or not in 2013. The next generation comes up in time for the 2015 season, and that generation augments the 2012 generation.
To wit: Milone and Parker are central to the 2012 generation; Cole is central to the 2015 generation. Carter, Allen, the Hawaiian guy, Cardenas, Sizemore and Taylor are all part of the 2012 generation. Choice and Green should be established by 2015. PT is pretty convinced that the 2012 generation sucks — but that’s what we have: they may be Rob Picciolo and Wayne Gross and Mickey Klutzz and Shooty Babbitt, but they need their shots. And by 2015, other players, including the best of the 2012 draft, should be coming up.
I think Beane will augment the 2012 guys with very cheap veterans as place-holders. People are expecting a really bad team this year, which is why I think they’ll surprise everyone, and then fall apart in 2013 - but by then you’ll see Choice in the line-up, and Parker should be up to speed, so it’s all good.
I think the miscalculation is in thinking that
if a player comes up in 2012 they’re not a core piece in 2015-17. If Milone and/or Peacock make the team out of spring training, they’re still under contract control through 2017. If Parker and/or Peacock come up in June 2012, they’re under contract control through 2018.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's not a miscalculation...
Obviously anyone who comes up in 2012 could be a core piece of 2015-2017. But this is really the first wave. The second wave - from Norris and Cole to hopefully college grad 2012 draft picks comes later.
Cole may be ready to excel in 2015-17 is my point
He’ll be 23-25 those seasons.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Right
But by the time Cole is ready and Norris is ready, an entirely different crop of young players should also be in AAA or be getting their feet wet in the minors. The current crop, the ones I’ve mentioned, are ready to do that this year. That’s why I say there’s another generation coming in behind this one. If this one fails (as PT is sure it will) the next will be ready hopefully three years later.
Who you got for catchers out there?
Derek Norris is yours now, and he’s a comer. I’ve seen him play.
"I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious." - Charles Shackelford
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Athletics Nation
Related FanShots on Athletics Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Juice: Long Adam Dunn homer punctuates Chris Sale’s 15 Ks, Mark Trumbo goes deep after Jered Weaver goes down for Angels
- Leyland begs media to make umpires ‘accountable’ for bad calls (VIDEO)
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
