A Graphic Look at Replacing Runs in FA: Oakland Athletics
by David Fung on Nov 25, 2011 11:26 PM PST
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Possibly losing your team's entire outfield and DH to FA is hard (Josh Willingham and David DeJesus were offered arbitration, but looks like DeJesus is chosing not to accept). Taking a look at the run production in the 2011 season, I've tried to replace that production with either free agents or internal promotions.
Instead of just using runs scored straight up, I've used wRC (weighted runs created) and wRAA (weighted runs above average) to get a more accurate reading. 2012 projections are from Bill James data on Fangraphs.
Click after the jump to see how the A's can stay competitive.
This group of 4 came in at 247 wRC and 28.3 wRAA. It looks like in order to stay competitive in the AL West, the A's will have to at least sign at least one veteran free agent. The best case scenario for the signing would be if the A's can get Jason Kubel (75 wRC, 14.7 wRAA) or Kosuke Fukudome (63 wRC, 4.4 wRAA) for left field. Kubel is projected to nearly match Willingham's 2011 production (78 wRC, 15.2 wRAA).
The rest of the OF would look like Ryan Sweeney in CF and Michael Taylor in RF. At DH, we'll replace Hideki Matsui with a second run at trying to get Vladimir Guerrero.. With this new group they're projected to produce 242.8 wRC and 24.4 wRAA. Should yield about 1 win if we look at the wRAA comparison to 2011. There's some other FA options shown, but that's just to humor myself, namely Cody Ross and Ryan Ludwick as some good possibly buy low veteran pickups
I know, our free agent spending isn't going to get us very much, especially if we're bootstrapped until the stadium situation. And talking to a few A's fans on Twitter, I know it might look absurd that Cody Ross is on here, but that goes to show, free agent outfielders this year are gonna be hard to come by.
Click on the image or here for the full size graphic. Check out FUNGraphs.tumblr.com and regularly on Beyond the Box Score or follow me @cobradave for more
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how about "none of the above"
The only free agents I see the A’s signing are low cost vets, that they think they can flip for a young player / prospect at the deadline. Signing them, likely only at the end the of the winter when the few remaining free agents look around and see no big money or job. Maybe Ross or a Ludwick fit that type. Add a vet to start the season, that takes pressure off the kids for the first few months of the season.
The idea of signing and then trading in a few months does not always work. Last year Harden was a good example, and for some reason he did not go. A few years back Sheets got hurt about the week he should have been shipped away.
One other reason I can see for signing a FA, is if MLB put presure on the A’s to spend money. I have read before that that was one of the reason for signing Sheets. Not sure if that was true.
Yeah, that's a brutal list
Ross, Ludwick, and Guerrero are right-handed and bad defenders. Also, bad hitters if that needs to be mentioned. Ludwick had a decent season three or four years ago. Cody Ross had a good three weeks last October. Guerrero was good in 2005. Not sure why the A’s would want Jason Kubel. They have enough left-handed first base/DH types. Fukudome is the only one I’d consider, but he’s average at best.
Which brings us back to an obvious but often understated point: the answer is not free agency. It’s the farm system and trades.
by DanHennessey31 on Nov 26, 2011 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
A's have a DH for 2012
His name is Chris Carter. It’s time to see if he can come close to replicating what he did in the minors.
by my_cat_max on Nov 26, 2011 11:55 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Hmmmmm
I’d rather have Chris Carter of the Braves; at least he has an upside. I’m tired of seeing Carter look helpless against MLB pitchers.
by Flamethrower on Nov 26, 2011 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
In all of 124 career PA over very uneven amounts of playing time?
He may never live up to his potential but he’s got to at least get the chance first. What he’s had so far barely even counts.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
It does barely count. But it hasn't looked good.
I just hope they finally give him the playing time he deserves to try to prove something. And next year is probably the best opportunity for that to happen.
Agreed on the last part
That’s why I’d rather, with next year likely to be a mean-nothing season, I want Carter DHing over any of the options in the poll. Of those listed, though, Kubel would be my choice.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Don't bother signing shitty free agents just for the sake of it.
Brandon Allen can play LF, Barton can play 1B, Carter can DH.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
by mikev on Nov 26, 2011 12:25 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
How bad is Allen's defense going to be in left?
Not that it matters a whole lot. I want to get him at bats. And isn’t Barton still going to be recovering from surgery? Or is he going to be ready by the beginning of the season? Either way I suppose the team has enough options to fill 1B while he is out.
There's at least one clip out there showing Brandon Allen
making a great play in LF. May have been just a fluke, but my general impression is that he’s not terrible there.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
said clip
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11603037&c_id=mlb
Slegna must die!
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 27, 2011 6:26 AM PST up reply actions
wow. GREAT play
and he hit his cutoff man perfectly after bouncing off the fence – arm looked fine enough there – I don’t care if my LFer has a rocket for an arm – Willingham certainly didn’t and he fared fine out there for the most part. If Allen can hit 15 HRs and get on base at a .330 + clip, he looks better than any other internal options we have, so heck yes, I say play him!
I think bill james
without looking it up I think that bill james has him at a triple slash of .249/.340/.425 next season. I would like to see a higher iso power number out of him but you’re right, that is better than a lot of what we have if not anything we have as an option.
Slegna must die!
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 11, 2011 6:52 AM PST up reply actions
From the SSS in LF in 2010, Allen is above average with range, below average with the arm
He’s very competent at 1B, so I have to imagine he’ll be at least passable in left. Better than Willingham was, if that helps. If anything, we should worry about his bat. He has the tools and talent, but can’t convert it into consistent ML production. He put up .143/.222/.286 in the VWL. Hopefully it’s just something mechanical, and he isn’t trying to play through some kind of injury like other A’s farmhands seem to do.
That's an ugly triple slash right there.
If it’s mechanical hopefully the newly hired hitting coach will be able to help. I don’t want to even think about it being injury related.
I agree with all of you. My thought was most of these dudes, maybe with the exception of Kubel, would come at a pretty good price. These by no means are guys that I expect all star numbers from but important pieces to help keep the team competitive.
You're saying the team was competitive last year? Or any year since 2006?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 26, 2011 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
I don't doubt that DeJesus won't accept
But there’s hardly any authoritative word on that, just a guess. Nothing from DeJesus or his agent. Occasionally players surprise the professional guessers. I recall Placido Polanco once accepting arbitration with the Phillies, his original club. Everyone had written that he was expected to decline.
by OaklandSi on Nov 26, 2011 1:19 PM PST via mobile reply actions
As bad as DeJesus was last year,
him accepting arbitration wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen to the A’s, especially considering how starved they are for outfielders right now. FanGraphs had him at 2.2 WAR last year.
But the pick ....
But getting the 50th pick or maybe a little later in the draft would not be bad.
Was thinking that this coming draft the A’s will likely get 6 picks in the top 100. (first 3 rounds plus the comps). With the way the new free agent rules are set up, this may be the last time the A’s will get this many picks in one draft for the next five years. If I understand the new rules, there will be no B’s and fewer A comps. The A’s will have to offer a much larger arbitration number to keep a player’s picks. Thus they will likely move players before FA hits.
As long as the A's actually do something with their picks
We’ve been absolutely terrible with our picks over the last 8 years, and next years draft is weak. Beane’s track record with picks is so bad, I might actually prefer Dejesus.
by Beane's Brain on Nov 26, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
It really hasn't been terrible
With the top picks (1st, supplemental, 2nd) over the last eight years they’ve picked players such as Powell, Street, Suzuki, Pennington, Buck, Cahill, Weeks, Ross, Green, Choice, Gray.(2007 was an absolute disaster…) They may not be All-star talent, but we haven’t gotten those kinds of picks. BTW, it’s not Beane picking them, even if he has some influence over it.
To put those guys in prospective
Kurt Suzuki has the most WAR, and he’s still under 10. I also don’t think you can use examples of players still in the minors as great picks!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Nov 27, 2011 12:43 AM PST up reply actions
Also Huston Street, who is over 10.
Street + Suzuki + Braden makes 2004 a pretty good draft year for the A’s. I’d say 2006 was decent, too, with Cahill and Bailey.
2005 was bad, and 2007 was terrible. 2008-2011 are too early to say.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Does he?
Yeah that’s a pretty good one!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Nov 29, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
Not terrible??????
You gave an example of Powell and Buck! Then you had to mention players that haven’t even made it to the pros yet!
Look back at the last 8 years with the drafts and look at how many great names are there! There are tons of great players and we didn’t get any of them!
Beane’s the GM, ie in charge of player personal, he’s got more influence then anyone! Maybe I can’t blame beane for the picks but I don’t really trust our organization in terms of picks!
by Beane's Brain on Nov 27, 2011 5:51 AM PST up reply actions
to be fair....
How many players have made it to the majors out of the last 3 drafts, so far? Strasburg, Ackley and and Storen were all drafted before the A’s picked in 2009.
Green, Choice and Gray are all still in the A’s top 5 prospects and all still look like they will be good major league players. It is not 100%, but it is hard to complain about the A’s last top three picks.
As for a ton of great players…let us look at the 2007 draft. The A’s pick Simmons, who hurt his arm and looks like a wash out (maybe he will show something this year…hope)with pick 26. Porcello went 27th and was paid the 3rd highest of any guy drafted in that draft. Kinda hard to beat up the A’s for not taking him when 25 other teams also could have. Tommy Hunter went 54 to Texas, Jordon Zimmermann went 67 and Mike Stanton went 76 to Florida. That is about it for players in the 2007 draft that the A’s could have gotten in the top 100 picks. Stanton is the only “great” one, and 75 teams passed on him.
The A’s top picks over the last few years have been ok
All very true
I really like Green, Choice, and Gray.
But by no means can we say we’ve done well the last 3 years until we have some actual WAR. We can only say inconclusive. And we can say the previous 6 years from 2003-2008 were pretty crappy.
For example in 2004 we could have said we had the best draft ever in 2001 with Bobby Crosby, Jeremy Bonderman,and John Rheinecker, but as well all know……….
by Beane's Brain on Nov 27, 2011 7:53 AM PST up reply actions
2001
Crosby pick 25 and Bonderman pick 26
Alan Horne, Justin Pope, Josh Burrus, Noah Lowry, Bryan Bass, Jeff Mathis, Bronson Sardinha, JD Martin, Michael Garciapera and then Rheinecker are the next ten guys taken. Aside from Scioscia and his odd man lust for Mathis, the rest are crap. Crosby and Bonderman were good picks and five years later, they were still good. Sure the A’s could do better, but they are likely better than 50% of MLB.
Jeff Mathis is also crap
In spite of (or maybe because of) Mike Scioscia’s man-lust for him.
Hats for bats. Keep bats warm.
75 teams passed on Stanton?
They’ve added a few teams when I wasn’t looking…
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Seems clear to me that means some teams passed on him more than once when they had the chance
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yes
even the Marlins pass on Stanton with their first pick
I didn't realize that there were that many expansion teams
to make 75 teams total in MLB. Where have I been?
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
What team are you trying to compare the A's drafts to?
Can we agree that the Rays are considered a good drafting team? Here’s their 1, supplemental and 2nd round products over the last 8 years: 2004: Niemann (4th overall, 5.3 WAR), Brignac (0.4 WAR). 2005: Wade Townsend (8th overall, hasn’t played since 2009), Chris Mason (hasn’t played since 2009). 2006: Longoria (3rd overall, 26.9 WAR), Josh Butler (has only pitched 4 ML innings). 2007: Price (1st overall, 10.4 WAR), Will Kline (has only pitched 29 Minor League innings). 2008: Tim Beckham (1st overall, in AAA), Kyle Lobstein (AA). 2009: Didn’t sign 1st or 2nd round pick. 2010: Sale, O’Conner, Vettleson (None have passed Rookie level), Thompson, Diedtrich. 2011: Not even going to list the ridiculous 12 they drafted.
Here are the notable mentions that they got later in the drafts:
Wade Davis (3rd Rd), Hellickson (4th Rd), Desmond Jennings (10th Rd), Matt Moore (8th Rd)
So Price, Longoria, and Niemann are really the only top picks that have panned out so far and they were respectively 1st, 3rd, and 4th overall. Add in the 4 I mentioned above and you have pretty much the only players that have contributed at the major league level. Their draft results look much better with Price and Longoria, but look at where they were drafted. The A’s haven’t picked that high since 1998 when they grabbed Mulder.
So here’s my point. You can look at other teams and see close to the same thing. Only a few players drafted each year for a team even make it to the ML, and even fewer contribute above-average production. The A’s have drafted no “star” players recently (cross fingers on Choice and Gray), but have a good amount of players that have contributed. Their drafting may not be what fans like us dream about, but has been far from terrible.
by Furyan on Nov 27, 2011 10:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Looks like this years draft will be a nice opportunity for the A's.
There’s a rumor the Twins are interested in Willingham. Please be true. That would give us the second overall pick if I understand the new CBA.
Enter arbitrary sig line here
by theoriginalrods on Nov 27, 2011 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
the new CBA unprotects picks?
We yet enjoy little to be envied, but endure much to be pitied.-Thomas Dudley
oh, I get it, you are supposed to get the next pick after the signing team?
that really screws the next team, doesn’t it.
We yet enjoy little to be envied, but endure much to be pitied.-Thomas Dudley
I still haven't read anything that these compensatory picks can't be in the top 15
…so I’ll assume that if the Twins sign Willingham that we’ll get the third overall pick. But, I’m still a bit skeptical that it really works that way. Such a weird loophole.
It's before the signing team, not after
Which would be 2nd overall. I don’t see why Minnesota would allow themselves to be pushed back a pick for Willingham in a non-contending season. I sure hope they aren’t protected so we aren’t screwed with a 2nd round pick instead.
The only reason they would do that is that they think they are contending next year
Willingham is pretty much the only (non-Pujols) player on the market that could consistently hit HRs at Target Field.
It’s possible that with a healthy Morneau and Mauer, plus Willingham and one starter, they are favorites in the Central, it’s not unreasonable to see them contending.
Also – if they have 3 players they are pretty much ok with, then moving down to 3rd doesn’t really hurt them.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 28, 2011 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
That last part is the key.
When your pick is somewhere beyond #10 it’s too hard to predict what might happen ahead of you to know what the consequences will be of dropping down one slot. But when it’s the difference between #2 and #3 it’s pretty easy to measure the cost. You know who your three top preferences would be, so however much space there is between them is the difference it could make to you.
(Unless the Astros go through the same reasoning, and you get bumped down to #4! Whoops.)
Who are the top prospects available for the 2012 draft anyway? I saw an early mock draft that went Appel, Marrero, Giolito, Buxton, Zunino. I’ve never heard of any of them. How much talent drop is there from A to Z there?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
CSN says Chili Davis is coming to the A's
He can still play left, can’t he?
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Nov 26, 2011 1:23 PM PST reply actions
Ross had very similar projected numbers to DeJesus
Ross (130 gms) wRC: 56, wRAA: 3.9, DeJesus (124 gms) wRC: 55, wRAA: 3.
So.....they both suck?
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 26, 2011 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
and ross sucks even better at defense.
We yet enjoy little to be envied, but endure much to be pitied.-Thomas Dudley
So it's settled!
We corner the market on players that suck!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Nov 27, 2011 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
A few points
1) You’ve mixed batting production from last season and James’ projection for next season arbitrarily. To wit: The numbers for Willingham, Coco, Matsui’s numbers are from 2011 while those for DDJ, Vlad, and Allen are James’ projections for 2012. Start with a sound methodology, explain it clearly when outlining your investigation, and then make sure you’re data matches what you’re looking for.
2) FWIW, James’ batting projections have been notorious in previous years for being overly optimistic; I’m not sure if it’s been more in line with other projection systems in recent years. The others (ZIPS, PECOTA, et. al.) haven’t published their figures for next year yet, so you might have waited until you had a more data available instead of relying on just James.
3) Oakland is where projections come to die.
4) Like mikev said, the A’s shouldn’t sign mediocre FAs just to match the production of last year’s lousy offense. Next season should be a rebuilding year, so it’s a good situation to get the young hitters (Allen, Carter, Taylor, et. al.) as much playing time as possible to see what they have for the future. Any FA signings should be to add depth and/or “veteran presence” only; moreover, a hitter in his prime with pedigree like Kubel won’t give the A’s a second thought.
You're right, on second thought, I should have used 2012 projections for everyone. It's now updated.
I think other than that, my methodlogy makes sense, even with the 2011 numbers, they weren’t really off, but I know, the point is that it wasn’t as accurate as it could have been. Thanks for pointing that out.
I also noticed that some data was left out when I published the graphic, so everything is now there.
Since the A's were only a mere 22 games out of first place last year
I think it’s more likely that they have to get comepetitive rather than try to stay competitive at this point.
But seriously, folks....
I think if they were going to bring in a DH, it would be Matsui.
I bet it’ll go to whoever is hotter coming out of spring training between Ka’Aihue and Carter.
I like the Green and Gold chart but what earthly reason would anyone have for actually
wanting such bad players? I grant you Sweeney can’t literally play all 3 OF positions, but I’d rather have an OF of Allen, Mitchell and Miller before spending hard currency on any of these bums.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 26, 2011 6:23 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, I just don't want to see them spend money on players that aren't necessary additions to the team.
They can fill positions from the players they have in the organization. They might not be very competitive but that’s not any different than the past several years.
Same
Most of those guys would just be single-season fillers, and roadblocks for the kids who should get their chances next year.
by Sean Fortuna on Nov 30, 2011 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
No FAs!
Let’snot half @$$ rebulid. Let’s rebuild 100 percent! Let’s see what Taylor, Carter, Allen, Sweeney, Kila, etc can do! Maybe see what we can get from trades too!
I’m reading Carter is absolutely terrible in OF. Does anyone know of any case where a player can fail to develop in the minors but learn OF in the majors? I hate the idea of a rookie DH!
by Beane's Brain on Nov 27, 2011 5:56 AM PST reply actions
I'm not sure but
He’s been tried for a couple years now. So my guess is no.
He’s supposed to be extremely athletic and normally Athletic players can play outfield. But my guess is he will be Cust like in the outfield. Probably losing a WAR per year.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Nov 27, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
nothing looks good right now
Sorry but until the San Jose thing is done I doubt any FA will be coming here. For now just say Carter at DH. Barton at 1st. Allen backing up 1st and OF. All these Gio rumors are just that unless Beane gets a deal he can’t refuse. No need to bring in Vlad since the team is rebuilding or bringing in some hang on FA. I still feel Crisp may be back if he doesn’t get a good offer. His name has not been mentioned very much this off season.
Me too
Especially if we can get him at a bargain. Just throw him out there with the young players and add some competition. Also we know he’s good for only about 100 games a year which means he probably won’t be blocking anyone.
He might even teach Allen, Taylor, Miller, Mitchell and Carter how to play some outfield!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Nov 27, 2011 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
With the OF free agent class this year, I'd be worried Crisp is gonna go higher than we'd like to pay.
I can be onboard with a complete rebuild, play all the young guys. It seems like the opinion here is that if it’s a veteran, Crisp would be welcome back. I can be down with that. I’ll update accordingly. Why don’t you think he was offered arbitration?
I'd welcome DeJesus back, too.
I don’t think he’s that bad.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
He wasn't offered arb
because he wasn’t a ranked FA. There was no point in offering or him accepting
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
To be Honest,
The only guy there that I’m remotely interested in is Kubel, and I wouldn’t want to spend over a million bucks on him or anyone else mentioned (especially not Guerrero). Signing one of those guys won’t change the fortune of the team, and since it doesn’t look like we’ll be going anywhere in 2012, why not just throw caution to the winds and give a season of playing time to Miller, Taylor, and the other kids? It’ll give plenty of time for them to show what they got and prove whether they have potential at a major league level, and maybe then we can talk again heading into 2013.
I'd rather overpay for star than sign one of these bums.
None of these guys have upside or is particularly better than our young guns. Allen in LF, Sweeney in CF, Taylor in RF, Barton at 1B, Carter at DH, Green waiting in the wings of CF and KK getting some DH/1B ABs here and there.
The premise of this article is a little strange
Why even come at it with replacing the production of our OF? If we replace the production of our OF, we end up with a 74-88 season…basically. Within this premise, good points were made, but I think the approach is entirely wrong.
We should shoot for a lot better than last year. But, the problem is, that takes money and talent, 2 things we don’t have much of. The idea though, should be more along the lines of how do we get back to the production of those early 2000s teams; And the answer has to be some kind of multi-year process, most likely.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 29, 2011 10:56 AM PST reply actions
Crisp
Given the FA’s that have been mentioned in this post why not just overpay Crisp for a year? The A’s have to spend their portion of the revenue sharing money on the MLB roster anyway if I understand the new CBA. He’s a good defender in center and in the event he gets hurt and misses significant time Sweeney can fill in. I’d rather see Taylor and Allen in right and left respectively every day to get time at the plate so we can see what they have offensively and in the event the A’s are leading late in the game bring Sweeney in as a defensive replacement for one of the two.
The worst person to run from is yourself.
Apparently someone in the FO might feel the same way you do (as do I)
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Nov 29, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
I love me some Coco, but
re-signing him creates something of a log jam at CF in our high minors. Jermaine Mitchell is going to be ready for the majors in 2012 if he’s ever going to be ready, Grant Green needs to be playing the position every day in AAA, and Michael Choice will be right behind him in AA. Since we’re going to be bad this year no matter what, let’s at least use the year to try to figure out which of those three (if any) is our center fielder of the future by giving each of them a level at which to play regularly.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 29, 2011 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
Given that, how do we spend our revenue sharing money?
We have obligated $21M to five players. I could see the A’s signing McCarthy for ~$3 million, similar to Braden’s deal last season. Breslow/Sweeney are probably going to be approximately last year’s salaries for another $3 million. Assuming they are still around, Gio and Bailey could make a bit more, maybe Pennington, too.
Not sure how it works with Braden, is under team control, made $3+ million last year, but barely pitched and may not pitch next season. Do they pay $1 million just to keep him around?
Either way, eyeballing it, the payroll isn’t looking much more than $40 million without significant free agent signings, and the A’s are going to have to spend some more money. More overspending on relief pitchers so that the youngsters aren’t blocked? Maybe a SP to fill out the rotation beyond Gio, Trevor, McCarthy, Moscoso?
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 29, 2011 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
I'd vote for an SP
We’ll be lucky to get anything positive out of Braden, Anderson and Ross this year so we could really use the depth. Not sure there’s anyone out there I really want though who would be willing to sign a short term deal.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 29, 2011 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
In all honesty though, I liked the strategy over the past couple years
of signing oft-injured or recovering starters. It didn’t work with Sheets but worked wonderfully with Brandon McCarthy. The A’s should do this whenever they can. I also wouldn’t mind if they signed an IFA starting pitcher. They should have money to spend, and if they’re going to be limited in the draft, they should definitely spend overseas.
That was my reaction - the money we spent on Sheets made him a lot more of a risk
Whereas what we spent on Harden and McCarthy this year was a pittance. If we try out Ponson, or the reanimated corpse of Bartolo Colon for a million, there’s not much to lose.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 29, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
Pretty sure that's not an issue for Beane
See, for instance, Brown, Jeremy.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 30, 2011 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think Jeremy Brown had a record of multiple DUIs and assaulting a judge
He was just a little bit chunky.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 30, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Why are we talking about my record?
Oh, Ponson. Right.
No, but we have had players with anger management issues
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 30, 2011 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
What do you mean?
Milton just really liked hugging.
by Glorious Mundy on Nov 30, 2011 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
True, but the talent level of a guy like Milton Bradley
compared to that of a Sidney Ponson now. I’d take Milton back 100 times before ever wanting to see Ponson. But you’re correct that at 1 million there’s not a lot to lose. It’s just nobody wants him on the team even for that cheap.
GP
Still would be worth a minor league deal
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 30, 2011 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, McCarthy Was A Steal
Ended up being probably the most consistent guy on the staff. Sheets, on the other hand, was basically 10 million dollars for half a year of mediocrity, and worse. It’s a hit-and-miss thing, but it’s a pretty good strategy, and when they’re signed cheap, can induce big rewards.
Despite that, I was still less then thrilled when I heard that the only thing the A’s had done signing-wise was to talk with Sidney Ponson.
Before his injury, Sheets was one of the better pitchers in the league.
If he was healthy, which most teams thought he was, $10M wasn’t a huge overpay, but he was just bad that year. There is risk involved, but it’s a solid strategy.
How much was the revenue sharing?
I agree with your rough estimate that a no-major-signing payroll would come in around $35-40 million. Was the revenue sharing really that much more than that? It was $32 million in 2010. It probably went up for 2011, but how much? Maybe ~$40m? Seems like it would be pretty easy to reach that.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I'm assuming teams have to spend some of their own revenue on their MLB rosters.
Even if they go back down to the $48M payroll from 2008, they’d have to spend their money on a couple of RPs. Honestly, the more I think about it, the better that sounds to me. Might as well get a couple of Fuentes-like contracts to get the team up to the presumed new stadium and spend whatever is left over on development and international signings.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 29, 2011 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
Addendum
And, by doing so, you aren’t blocking the development of CarterAllenTaylorGreenChoiceEtc.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 29, 2011 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
True. The money is there to pay for these FA.
Overpaying for one dude isn’t necessarily gonna be too bad considering the low cost of the rest of the roster. The A’s can most definitely sign no one and just run the kids out there, but that’ll easily amount 60+/- wins only.
That's True
But none of them would really change the fortune of the team, and we need to give the young guys extended amounts of playing time, not have them sit on the bench or stew in the minors because of a single-season, unspectacular performer like Ludwick or Ross.
I am glad someone mentioned it because I'd secretly be somewhat happy having him back.
Unless, of course, he looks as bad as he did last year. Well, I take that back, I want to see Carter getting his at bats at DH but I liked Jack Cust.
how is the 2013 draft shaping up?
We honestly might be the worst team in baseball staring at the number 1 pick by the end of next year…especially if Beane decides to what he should have done years ago not trade for Holiday and tear everything down by trading Gio and Bailey. Carter, Allen, Taylor, Sweeney, Kila, Barton, Pennington, Sizemore, Suzuki, Weeks….wow, this is literally going to be a AAA team when you add a possible rotation of Cahill, Mccarthy, Moscoso, Godfrey, Ross, Outman, and eventually Braden and Anderson….Please tell me that we got a Strausberg, Harper, or Manny Machado lurking two drafts from now…
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 5, 2011 1:45 AM PST reply actions
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