Seriously? No rumor thread yet? I'm on it!
by Brett Narloch on Nov 22, 2011 7:04 AM PST
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PrintAnd just like that... the A's are in the news. I can't believe there aren't multiple threads about these rumors yet, but in case you haven't heard, the A's are throwing around names like Gio Gonzalez and Andrew Bailey. And we're hearing names like Mike Stanton and Logan Morrison.
Slusser is reporting that the A's want a Haren type deal for Gio. That's good. Of course, the only two MLB regulars from that deal are injury-prone (Anderson) and play for another team (Gonzalez). She also mentioned that Balfour and Fuentes could be traded... GOOD!
Jim Bowden thinks the A's want Yonder Alonso for Bailey. Eh... why not Gio and Bailey for Jay Bruce and more?
Post your rumor links... thoughts about the deals... etc....
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according to Slusser Beane is simply listening at this point
and is demanding a Haren-like haul for Gio.
I'm too busy to do this right now, but since the Haren trade...
How does his WAR compare to all of those the A’s got back in return?
by Brett Narloch on Nov 22, 2011 7:49 AM PST up reply actions
It's tough to compare
Since some of the guys Haren was acquired for were subsequently traded as well.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
So apparently the Fish
weren’t too excited about trading away Stanton or LoMo. Apparently they thought they could throw a couple of High-A prospects at us for the best starter on the trade market.
John 3:16
"If they want to pay me like Mike Gallego, I’ll play like Gallego." - Rickey Henderson
I would judge Buehrle roughly equal as well.
If you’re talking pitcher quality for a season as opposed to value of his contract in terms of dollars for years, I’d give the edge to Buehrle.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Well, that's kind of an unfair comparison.
You said Gio would be the best starter “on the FA market, too”. But if he were on the FA market, he would have an FA price and thus not be much cheaper.
You can’t have it both ways.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
"Gio would be the best starter on the FA market, too."
Should read “Gio is the most valuable starting pitcher available this winter.”
My original comment was poorly worded.
You can really only compare them the past two seasons
It’s not really fair to compare a SP and RP (in 2009). Interestingly, their HR rates are what mainly separate them in FIP. In 2010, their K/9, BB/9, and IP are almost exactly the same. Wilson was undeniably better in 2011, though, mainly from a walk less per nine.
If you're going to say HR rates is what separates them,
you have to factor in that Wilson gives up fewer homeruns in a ballpark that gives up 50% more homeruns than average. Arlington is hitter’s dream, and Wilson’s had a lot of success in it.
STANTON!
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
by mikev on Nov 22, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Stanton and Hanley!
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 22, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
They got the fuck out.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
Unfortunately
But why do they expect to get Gio in packages that don’t contain Stanton or LoMo? The rest of their prospects suck right?
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Nov 27, 2011 12:51 AM PST up reply actions
They have enough prospects to construct a fair package of prospects for G. Gonzalez
but Beane’s not looking for reasonable or fair packages right now. Why should he? Everything I’ve read so far is that if Gonzalez is available, he’s the top trade target of several teams. For Miami, depending on what the rest of the price is, moving Morrison is logical. He’s a good young hitter that’s limited by his awful defense.
Stanton, though, would be an untouchable on basically any team in the league right now. He’s five years younger than Gonzalez, better than Gonzalez, and cheaper than Gonzalez. That’s why they’re not going to trade him.
Gio
Another problem with making too many deal this winter is that they might get too many player to protect on their 40 man. Better to space the deals out. If the A’s trade Bailey for 2 prospects, Suzuki for 2, Gio for 4, Fuentes for 1, McCarthy for 2, do they then need to cut other guys from their 40 man to fit in the new guys. Sure some might be easy cuts. Spaced over two years it is easier for them to fit in.
With Gio, unless the A’s are blow away, it could pay to hold out till next winter or a much better offer.
I don't think the 40-man roster should be an issue.
We should be targeting younger prospects anyway, which means many of them won’t be Rule 5 eligible. If we trade for multiple major-league-ready players, we’re doing it wrong.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Yelich is good, and a good fit for us.
Ozuna is too. Those two alone aren’t enough, though. I think we’d have to clean them out pretty good to get total Gio value. Not impossible, but kind of improbable.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
why not trade cahill over Gio?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
I guess it would be selling low on Cahill.
Plus Cahill is under contract until the theoretical opening of a SJ stadium.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 22, 2011 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with this.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart
cahills value plummeted after this past season
that era… killer…..
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
by j-spliff415 on Nov 22, 2011 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
I'd like to see them trade Bailey
and let Cahill reestablish his trade value by getting off to another hot start, then deal him mid-season for a bag of prospects.
I think Cahill only gets traded if the A's want to save money
He’s signed for such a long time that he’ll be around during whenever it is that the A’s hope to be good by.
Is that even possible anymore under the CBA?
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Sure.
The only effect on mid-season trades is that teams will be less motivated to trade for a free agent in his last year in hopes of getting draft picks out of him. Other than that, all the usual motives for trading are still there.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I am strangely ok letting Gio go if we get a Haren-esque haul
Bailey too, no worries. It’s who we are, might as well embrace it.
Read a story today too how Bud and the boys are close to making a decision, as early as January. Yawn!!! I will believe it when I see it.
A Kouzmanoff for the rest of us!
Oh god.
I thought “close to making a decision” meant that it was in the next week or something. January? At the earliest?
Yup.
We’re not competing this year anyway, and our farm stinks.
by Rebuilding Season on Nov 22, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
The decision has already been made.
We just get to hear what it is in January.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Strangely ok?
A Haren-esque haul is great!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Nov 27, 2011 12:52 AM PST up reply actions
Alonso
If we add Alonso, then I guess this is what will happen:
Barton and Carter get traded, we get very little in return.
Kila starts the year in AAA.
Allen stays on the MLB roster as DH/LF/1B?
If we really go for Alonso, I guess we are basically in “cut our losses” mode with our mess of 1B/DH types.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 22, 2011 10:26 AM PST reply actions
still need some outfielders though
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 22, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
This is basically why I'm not that excited about him or Morrison
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 22, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
Yesterday in the comments on the the Bailey/Alonso blurb on MLBTR
somebody suggested trading Jacoby Ellsbury for Gio Gonzalez straight up…then somebody said, “Why would the A’s do that? They need a first baseman. Can Ellsbury play first base?”
So, I should stop going over there.
Yeah, our outfield is pretty awesome as is.
We just need a first baseman!
That's just depressing.
I know I’m not super involved as a fan but that makes me feel better about some of the things I say.
Trade rumors are always overblown and premature.
Am I the only one who is far more interested in CBA rumors? How soon will the complete text be released?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
A whole bunch of information has already been released.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/cba-details-luxury-tax-draft-.html
The low revenue draft lottery is particularly interesting.
And holy crap.
75% tax AND the loss of a first rounder on draft picks that are 5% overslot. 100% tax and the loss of a 1st and 2nd for 10% overslot. Above 15% overslot, and you lose two first rounders.
College and JC coaches are now jubilant
I guess they could raise the slot amounts but that would just cause less deserving picks to make more money and defeat the purpose of slotting.
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 22, 2011 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
hey iglew, I made us a hangout joint
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2011/11/22/2580939/the-official-new-cba-complaining-thread
"I'll guarantee this: The A's will have a better season in 2012." - George Zimmer
by cuppingmaster on Nov 22, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
florida flat out rejects idea of trading either stanton or lomo for gio
…..well there goes that….
lomo would have been such a fan favorite
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
Makes sense for them.
If they’re trying to win, giving up major league pieces doesn’t help that.
Josh Johnson + Gio would be a deadly 1/2 though.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
i thought lomo was kind of a headache for their management tho
i woulda thought for sure they would have bit on a lomo for gio trade. their pitching was pretty subpar last season (outside of johnson)
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
by j-spliff415 on Nov 22, 2011 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Stanton's not getting dealt
You wouldn’t trade him while you were trying to compete, plus he’s younger, cheaper, and better than Gio.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Enh, Morrison wasn't my first choice anyway.
Any team that is trading for Gio wants to win in 2012, so they’re not going to trade away any player slated as a 2012 starter, which Stanton surely is and Morrison probably is.
I think the only reason Morrison was even in the discussion is because the Marlins organization allegedly had a falling out with him. Stanton has never been more than a rosterbatory fantasy.
But screw those guys. I want Yelich. How big a package could be built around Yelich and Ozuna?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Not a huge one after that.
Even if you think Gonzalez deserves a Haren-like return, he’s not going to get one. He’s not as good as Haren was and teams overvalue prospects nowadays. BA had C. Gonzalez, Anderson, Cunningham, and Carter ranked 1, 3, 7, and 8 respectively.
I would ask for Yelich, Ozuna, and Chad James. But I think it’s pretty damn clear that Beane’s not asking for reasonable returns right now, which is fair. I think he’s probably just going to wait until somebody gets desperate or not trade him at all. Personally, I would trade him or Cahill to try to fill the organizational gaps in the outfield, but that’s just me.
hmmmm
Seems like Beane is always able to sniff out some very interesting deals. This always happens this time of year. Then between Dec.10th – Dec. 20th, BOOM! Deal is done or No Deal is done.
Personally, I think Gio +4 years is more valuable than Haren +3 years. If other GM’s don’t think so, then Gio will be playing in Oakland this year and the price tag will probably be about the same as it is this offseason.
by Colorado Fan on Nov 23, 2011 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
what if we could do a gio + bailey trade
for lomo, gaby sanchez, and prospects?
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
sanchez would be a defensive upgrade over allen/carter any day of the week
and his bat isnt horrible either
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
by j-spliff415 on Nov 22, 2011 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
Wait, now they're going to give up BOTH their 1Bs?
The logic behind trading Gio to the Marlins, or really to any team, is that they want to win this year and we want to rebuild. We should not be looking at any of their starting players. We should be looking at the best prospects in their minor-league system.
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
The problem might be that the Marlins can't build an adequate package for Gio through prospects alone.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 23, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Why in the hell would either team do that?
The A’s 1B depth chart would look like this:
Morrison
Sanchez
Barton
Allen
Carter
Ka’Aihue
And that’s all at the AAA/MLB level.
The Marlins 1B chart would look like this:
XX
Hey, I know that guy.
He’s our starting DH, right?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Nope. The A's couldn't afford him. This is the DH:
"He's listed as day to day, but then again, aren't we all?" — Vin Scully
~~~
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
by iglew on Nov 22, 2011 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
lol
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 23, 2011 2:52 AM PST up reply actions
I enjoy reading trade rumors, but I take them with a grain of salt.
Sounds like Beane is just setting the standard here. You want Gio? It’ll cost you your best prospect +.
Enter arbitrary sig line here
by theoriginalrods on Nov 22, 2011 2:52 PM PST reply actions
Well, in Stanton's case it's more like:
You want Gio? It’ll cost your best overall player (who is actually better, younger, and cheaper than Gio).
I so prefer the idea of
seeing if Cahill can reestablish any value come the spring and then trade him, rather than Gio mid-season. The rotation in August could then conceivably look something like:
Gio
Anderson
Ross
Gray
Moscosso
What happened to Brandon McCarthy?
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 22, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
exactly
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 23, 2011 2:53 AM PST up reply actions
he's a free agent
I am assuming that the A’s will offer him arbitration, but I doubt he’d take it, and it’s likely some other team will be willing to offer him more. Besides, even if he were signed by the A’s, the above list assumes he is on one of his 1-3 month long shoulder blade hiatuses come mid season.
by oakballnack on Nov 24, 2011 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
duh
he’s not a free agent yet – he’s still arbitration elligible this year. not sure what I was thinking. Harden is definitely a free agent. Class G
by oakballnack on Nov 24, 2011 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
what picks will the A's get if willingham and david sign with another team?
if david accepts arbitration does that mean he will automatically be back next year?
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
It goes something like this
1. If Willingham signs with another team, the A’s get a compensation pick directly prior to the team that signs him; however, that team doesn’t “lose” a pick. They also get a sandwich round pick.
2. If DeJesus declines arby, the A’s get a sandwich pick. If he accepts, the A’s either agree to a contract with him before arbitration, or they go to arbitration. Either way, he stays with the team.
Don't you realise you'll find next monday or next Tuesday/Your golden shoes day
by PDXAthleticsfan on Nov 23, 2011 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
It should be pointed out that DeJesus is not "automatically" back even if he accepts arbitration
Arbitration contracts are non-guaranteed, which means that if he was bad enough in spring training, he might well be released and get only a small fraction of the money he was awarded by the arbitrator.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
that may be enough incentive for him not to accept arb
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 23, 2011 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
it's almost impossible for a veteran to be so bad
that an arbitrator would allow it.
by vk on Nov 23, 2011 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
I believe that what PT is saying
Is that it’s possible for a player to win their arbitration case, but be cut during Spring Training. They don’t get paid their full salary if that’s the case, they get paid a pro-rated portion of it.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
thanks
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 23, 2011 5:33 PM PST up reply actions
Compensation Picks
The two compensation sandwich picks, one for Willinham and one for DeJesus are likely fall around pick 45-55 in the draft.
Willinghams other pick is likely in the 16-35 range or 60-115 range. This pick is based on who signs him, what the record of the team was last year and if the signing team has signed more than one free agent. A’s fans should hope for a good record team that only signs one player. Also the more players that resign with their original teams, the less sandwich picks (for example David Ortiz resigns with the Sox)
thanks
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
by HUNGRY HUNTER on Nov 27, 2011 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Jake Patterson
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
Didn't he marry Vanessa Williams?
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
Yes but then he homered off Kari Hillsman
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 25, 2011 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
I heard Chili Davis is the new hitting coach
I vibrated with joy that join A's. -- Kim Seong-min
by WaddellCanseco on Nov 25, 2011 11:11 PM PST reply actions
I heard his middle name is
“con carne”
by oakballnack on Nov 30, 2011 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
since we're opening in japan..
it would be cool to have a Japanese player on the roster and Kurt doesn’t count. Too bad A’s could never get Darvish. He would be awesome!
Falcon Punch!
Can we sign Hideki Matsui to a one-week contract?
Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis
I wouldn't mind having him on the team again.
The more I think about it, Carter, Allen, Barton, and Kila were all abysmally bad last year. It would be nice to have one player who could play DH or LF who we know will be halfway decent. And yeah, the Japan thing too. That was definitely a real effect, I went to a lot of games last year and saw more Japanese fans than I ever saw before.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 30, 2011 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
Matsui was abysmally bad as well.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 30, 2011 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
not relative to the fearsome 1B/DH foursome we have...
everyone knows the A’s aren’t allowed to have any actually good hitters.
Once they started letting him play some LF he was pretty good.
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 30, 2011 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
No, they were all replacement level.
The difference is that Matsui is old, will cost real money, and has no upside.
Playing left field had nothing to do with anything. He played left field in August and September too, and he hit terribly.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Nov 30, 2011 8:03 PM PST up reply actions
good point.
Wow. 2012 is gonna be a long season…
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 30, 2011 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
Especially since we will be playing well into ...
OCTOBER!!!!
WooHoo!
"Trying not to rec a "F**k the Giants" post is like trying not to look at boobs."
yes
Matsui sucked ass – I don’t care if he offered to come back on an extremely (sub $1 million) discounted contract, I can’t imagine WHY the A’s would even consider signing him, especially considering the above mentioned glut of replacement level players that could fill the DH hole. Only thing I can think is that if they get him cheap enough, (mind you, they have to pay for a full time translator as well, and I imagine he has some travel expenses calculated into his contract) they may figure that the additional revenue he brings in in the form of Japanese corporate endorsements and product/ticket revenue would actually net them a profit. That seems very unlikely, but who knows.
Winter Meetings coming up.
If Beane was allegedly asking the Marlins for LoMo or Stanton for Gio, then how about him asking Toronto for Brett Lawrie? That’d be lovely.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Dec 1, 2011 7:27 PM PST reply actions
Probably not.
That rug really tied the room together...
by Streams Of Whiskey on Dec 2, 2011 7:46 AM PST up reply actions
Teams going after Gio want to win now
it’s highly unlikely they will trade significant pieces of their MLB Roster for Gio. If there’s a prospect in A or AA then maybe.
by Billy Frijoles on Dec 2, 2011 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
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