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Around SBN: On Hazards And Hulks And Tigers, Oh My!

To trade Bailey


Ever since Taj Adib did his interesting FanPost on breaking up the current A's roster, I have been thinking about Bailey's value.  Since the post came up, it looks as if the Phillies are about to sign Papelbon. I thought it would be interest to see people's thoughts.

I thought it was interesting that the Phillies would pay for 4 years at 50 million and lose their first round pick.  I assume they will still offer Madson arbitration and thus get back two picks, so that is a possitive. But just say that the A's had traded Bailey to the Phillies instead.  The Phillies would get the two picks for Madson, but not lose their own pick.  Bailey is likely to get 18 million over the next three years, or about an $18 million savings over what they are paying Papelbon.  18 million might be more than half of what they would need to sign a Rollins or sign one of the type B outfields DeJesus or Kubal or maybe Sizemore if Cleveland does not offer Arbitration. Not going to happen but would they trade Domonic Brown to save that much money and kepp their own pick (pick 30)?

So taking this model and looking at other teams like the Jays and the Red Sox.  So for example the Jays are thinking about Madson they would have to give up the 17th pick in the first round next year and still pay him.  Say Madson would can get 30 million over 3 years,  What is Bailey worth to the Jays at 12 million saved an not giving up pick 17? Is Anthony Gose too much for Bailey or not enough, or if the A's threw in a Rosales do they get a 2nd prospect.  I am not up on prospect value. But if I am the Jays I would much rather have Bailey than Madsen.

One can look at the Red Sox in the same vain.  If they sign a Type A, they lose pick 22 (I think I am getting the picks correct).  Would they be interest in a Bailey and Fuentes offer.  Fix their pen at money of Madson. Maybe a Kalish or a Reddick and some nice A ball pitchers? Enough?

While there are other closers on the market and some are likely not to be offered arbitration, does a team want 35+ year old closers like Cordero (age 36) or Nathan (age 37).  And while there maybe no comp pick, the relievers are not that cheap. They are likely asking more that what Bailey will make.

It will be interest to see what the A's do with Bailey over the winter, .......if they do anything.

Thanks for the time

 

 

 

 



Comment 39 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I wonder

what bailey could fetch in free-agency and in the trade market…. Someone like a Drew stubbs? or more….

by Clip$ on Nov 13, 2011 5:02 PM PST reply actions  

I vote to trade Bailey

Saw on MLBTR this morning that the Jays really need a closer, but are not willing to give an FA a 4-5 year contract. They hinted they’d be far more interested in using their deep farm system to acquire the elements they need for a title run.

Enter Bailey.

We’ve had some experience w/ the Jays in the Michael Taylor trade, so i think we’ve got some room to open things up. They’re set in their outfield: Rasmus, Thames and that guy who hits all the HRs.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Nov 14, 2011 9:59 AM PST reply actions  

agreed

BUT NOT this offseason.Baily is at an all time low.Maybe if he proves himself before the deadline, and the Jays are still interested, we could get a muc better package, no doubt

by Clip$ on Nov 14, 2011 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

In fact, if the A’s are committed to this path, they should trade Jemile Weeks, too. Unless he suddently starts hitting bunches of homers, his trade value will never be higher.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 14, 2011 11:36 AM PST reply actions  

weeks...NO

Weeks will be an established player in his arbritaion years by the time 2015 rolls around—>new stadium, contending.
We do not want to aprt with him…

by Clip$ on Nov 14, 2011 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh.

He’ll be club controlled in 2015 and 2016, and 2015 is optimistic for opening day. Better to get a raftload of talent for him that won’t even be arbitration eligible by then.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 15, 2011 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

I've got no problem with it. Nobody should be off limits at this point.

Haven’t the A’s said he’s basically the only untouchable, though?

by NateHST on Nov 15, 2011 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

yep

But if they wanted to trade him, Beane would wait til he’s more proven. Its an easy risk to take and hope Weeks continues to raise his stock and maybe by the time he is arbritation eligible, we try to trade him…

by Clip$ on Nov 15, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

He posted 2 WAR in about 2/3 of a full season

while not playing at an unreasonable level. His numbers, offensively and defensively, are about what I expected (although maybe with a lower batting average and a higher walk rate). He doesn’t really need to prove himself production-wise, but rather that he can stay healthy. Actually, the fact that he’s dealt with so many damn injuries in the minors makes it more sensible to trade him sooner rather than later.

If a team wanted to pay for (a healthy version of a) 25 year old, above average second baseman who’s essentially free for two more years, and under team control for three years after that, I’d move him. That’s a surprisingly valuable player. If a teams wants to pay whatever that’s worth, I’d support it.

by NateHST on Nov 15, 2011 6:41 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

my point

I was trying to say the A’s would get much more value, ALOT more, if weeks has a healthy season, and duplicates his rookie year, even with a slight drop in production, we would still get a better package after next year.

by Clip$ on Nov 15, 2011 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

What makes you assume that?

If a team deems him healthy, they’ll be paying for what I described above. If the A’s waited a year, besides risking the fact that he may hurt himself next season, a team would be paying for that same player but with only one “free” year before arbitration.

I don’t understand why you think a team would pay more for less of the same player.

by NateHST on Nov 15, 2011 10:18 PM PST up reply actions  

The only argument for it

is that Weeks improves substantially next year. Possible, but by no means guaranteed.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2011 7:21 AM PST up reply actions  

risk.

Its called taking a risk. Chance is that his value goes up.
I dont remember the last time a rookie has hit over .300 in basically a full season, and then he struggled the next season alot, so much so his value dropped.
CHRIS COGHLAN DOESNT COUNT.
and thanks for your input NateSTD

by Clip$ on Nov 16, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions  

How about Jason Heyward?

Rookie season (142 games): .277/.393/.456
Sophomore season (128 games): .227/.319/.389

I would say his value is way down. So there’s that. Look, I’m not saying the A’s should just start hocking off all their players—Weeks included. All players should be available at the right price, always. Weeks’ price should be high, but if a team wants to pay, then that’s fine by me.

by NateHST on Nov 16, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

More close to home, there's Travis Buck:

Rookie season (82 games): .288/.377/.474
Sophomore season (38 games): .226/.291/.432

Smaller sample*, but still.

*SSSSS = small sophomore slump sample size

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Nov 16, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Heyward and buck dont exactly count.

Heyward was considered a MEGA prospect, and teams would still give up alot to get him, so this year didnt drop his value sgnificantly….AND neither of them hit above .300 ever, which weeks did and i quote myself “I dont remember the last time a rookie has hit over .300 in basically a full season”…etc
and buck definitely does not count, since he appeared in only 82 games

by Clip$ on Nov 16, 2011 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay.

You say Heyward doesn’t count because he was a mega-prospect and Coughlan doesn’t count because he wasn’t a top prospect? You can’t have it both ways. I guess Weeks was just the right amount of prospect.

In the end, they both count because they both fit your criteria of young players who succeeded (.300 means nothing out of context; Heyward was a much, much better hitter in his rookie year than Weeks) in their rookie year and regressed a lot in their sophomore year.

by NateHST on Nov 16, 2011 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

go with it

calm yo balls, kid…just go with it (good movie)
Heyward was a mega prospect, everyone still thinks he will be a star..if weeks failed his in his sophmore year, he would have alot of doubters…
with coghlan, me saying that he was never a top prospect was a moot point, a fact but not that important.YA DIG?
my point being, since he was a top prospect this year for the A’s, he should succeed this year and proved he can hit in the majors…so give him next year to improve his trade value..no contradiction needed NateSTD

by Clip$ on Nov 16, 2011 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

A's are going to have a winning season in 2012!

I dont remember the last time the A’s were under .500 for a full season, and then had another losing season the next year.
2009 DOESN’T COUNT.
thanks for your input NateXYZ

(Oh, and 2008 doesn’t count either.)

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Nov 16, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

lolzz

was there ever any doubt they wouldnt have a winning season????

by Clip$ on Nov 16, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Why doesn't Coghlan count?

That’s exactly the sort of risk we’re talking about.

(I’m opposed to trading Weeks, by the way.)

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Nov 16, 2011 5:08 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

well, he was never considered a top prospect, unlike Weeks was for our organisation…
(coghlan was dratfed in the 19th round…weeks in the first)
and i wanted to prove my point by not using a recent example…

by Clip$ on Nov 16, 2011 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Well said.

He has great value—potentially more than he’s really worth due to the injury concerns. Cashing in on great value is a good idea.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Nov 15, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Cashing in on great value is only good if you can actually cash in on it.

I can pretty much say that if Billy got offered some crazy deal for Weeks, he’d start 2012 in another uniform.

That’s quite different than actively shopping a player.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Nov 16, 2011 7:44 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't see why the A's would want Orlando Hudson.

That’s not consistent with the supposed rebuilding strategy.

Casey Kelly does seem like an A’s sort of guy, but I’d be more interested in him if he were still a shortstop. Why did the Red Sox switch him? Was his hitting really that bad, or was it just that they wanted a pitcher more? Can we switch him back?

Tell me more about Darnell. I see that Sickels says “poor results at third base have moved him to the outfield,” which doesn’t sound promising.

I think I’d rather keep Weeks.

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Nov 16, 2011 8:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Darnell is a little stiff at 3rd. He improved somewhat but only projects as league average at best.

He was raking in AA .333/.434./.604, but cooled upon promotion to AAA. If you aren’t scared by his 150 AB’s in AAA he still projects as a good power hitter. I was thinking maybe Sizemore to 2nd and Darnell to 3rd. But, yeah, Orlando is superfluous in that alignment.

Kelly never hit well enough to realistically take advantage of his athleticism at short, so playing the field is probably off the table at this point. It’s important to note that he’s only been pitching since 2009. He’s only 21, so there’s tons of upside here.

Forget Orlando, how about Reymond Fuentes? Speedster, raw, toolsy, still learning how to translate the speed into SB’s. Plus defender, can play CF, 20 at A+.

"When you find your way. Then you see it disappear."

by padmadfan on Nov 16, 2011 9:26 PM PST up reply actions  

If that offer was actually on the table for Jemile Weeks, I'd take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Nov 19, 2011 6:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Which piece is the one that really excites you?

Kelly, Darnell, or Fuentes/OCab?

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Nov 19, 2011 10:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Red Sox

Kelly, Fuentes and one more…sound like the deal the Red Sox made to get Gonzalez

by dougald1 on Nov 20, 2011 8:23 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't forget Eric Patterson!

Baseball is a stupid-making enterprise in that nobody wants to be singled out or say something dumb. —Michael Lewis

by iglew on Nov 20, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I would trade him for sure.

The A’s (save Arthur Rhodes…excuse the pun) have the ability to churn out closers and have plenty of viable relief options. Considering the team will likely be out of contention for the next season or 2, I would rather prepare for the 2014 season by getting stud prospects for Bailey. I don’t think we should trade Gio, Cahill or Anderson, but any of the other starters (plus Bailey) are fair trade.

by Dan Bowen on Nov 14, 2011 5:52 PM PST reply actions  

I agree...sort of

That is correct about this organization having great relievers, but we should not trade Bailey this offseason, coming off an injury and his worst season yet.. Trade him at this years trade deadline AT THE EARLIEST. But i agree about trading him before he hits FA or gets too expensive.The same goes for Gio, but i say trade him next offseason, unless he fails this year.

by Clip$ on Nov 14, 2011 9:30 PM PST reply actions  

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