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Rest in peace, Mr. Davis.

This isn't going to be able to long enough to satisfy some of the FanPost police, but to be honest, I'm more than a little taken aback by how the passing of one of the most iconic figures in the history of OAKLAND sports hasn't merited more than a FanShot yet.  This is going to be short and sweet, but I'll be damned if the passing of Al Davis is ignored.

Mr. Davis, while in recent years the fact that football had passed you by a bit due to age is not forgotten, I will always remember that you were--and are--one of the most important figures in the history of professional football.  You knew more football than most people have forgotten in their lifetimes, including your peers, which is evidenced by the signs we're seeing in what you've recently rebuilt.  Beyond being wildly successful at winning championships and football games, you advanced the cause of minorities and women in football unlike any other owner. 

You may have had a checkered history with the city of Oakland, but there is no denying one elemental fact--you truly were committed to excellence, even if you didn't know how to do it all the time.  Raider fans will miss you more than you can ever know.

Just rest in peace, baby.  You won.

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If they ain't hating, he's doing it wrong. RIP Al.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Oct 9, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I want to be with you, but...

…I have to say something. (I’ll keep it short)

I never forgave him for leaving Oakland to begin with. That is all.

(I don’t really blame him for Mt Davis, I blame the city/coliseum people for rolling over and agreeing to it.)

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Oct 9, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I feel the same way

On a Raider’s blog it would be odd not to say a lot about the passing of the owner. On an A’s blog, Al Davis is known mostly for helping mess up the A’s stadium for baseball, then moving the team away anyway (and then moving it back just to annoy Clay Wood).

I haven’t said anything negative about Al Davis because that would be inappropriate. I haven’t said anything positive about him, because…what am I going to say?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 9, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I did not follow the Raiders - but I know that he was a very influential man who will be missed by legions of fans.

Many of the players made it clear on social media today how he changed their lives forever. May he rest in peace.

AN Tailgate = Euphemism for food porn.

by Berry Jo on Oct 8, 2011 11:04 PM PDT reply actions  

+ 1

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Oct 9, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, the autumn wind

and the winter wind, they have come and gone.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Oct 9, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dust/Wind, Baby

Everybody's got a little light under the sun.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 9, 2011 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll refrain from saying what I really feel...

I’m with Flashfire, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 12:37 AM PDT reply actions  

Saw something on a blog about Al Davis that should be considered

Without the AFL Raiders inspiring the building of the Oakland-Alameda Coliseum, the A’s would have not come to Oakland from Kansas City. Thanks Mr. Davis …. Go Raiders and A’s!

" Sleepy Floyd is Superman!!!"

by CoachBarry on Oct 9, 2011 7:34 AM PDT reply actions  

True

And if he hadn’t brought his team back to Oakland the city might not be losing the A’s as seems very likely.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ummm

The A’s wanting to leave Oakland has very little to do with Al Davis.

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Oct 9, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

What a joke

“A very large reason.” Can A’s fans just accept that the team in not supported and it’s not Al Davis’s fault.

by RLangford on Oct 12, 2011 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Plus last I checked the Raiders were one of the most poorly supported teams in the NFL

So it’s not just the A’s that were hurt by them moving into the Coliseum.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, good for them

Doesn’t really make up for all the blackouts they’ve had since coming back to Oakland.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 13, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'vehad s-ssree jus' this week!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

If they had been any good at football for the last nine years

 you might actually have a point.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hardly.

What do you think the Pittsburgh Pirates would have drawn in the Coliseum from 2003-present?

If an award were to be given for which team’s fans actually give a damn, the Raiders would run far, far away from the A’s for it. That’s not something from which the ownership can wash their hands, either.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2011 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Both the A's and Raiders have their diehards

Both teams have had serious attendance problems relative to the rest of their respective leagues.

This is indisputable.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 13, 2011 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

One of them has huge contingents of fans at road stadiums

and regularly is at the top of the league in terms of merchandise revenue. The other one doesn’t.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2011 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

One helps promote Oakland's image

as a run-down ghetto full of biker gangs and violent criminals, and the other doesn’t.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Oct 14, 2011 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was trying to be gentle about it

But yes, the Raiders sell a violent image that sells to bikers gangs, gangs, and the general scum of society and does nothing to make Oakland look any better.

by athletics68 on Oct 14, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's actually the Raiders

promoting that image. Do they discourage it? Maybe not. I don’t think it helps that tv cameras only show people with painted faces and skulls and crossbones because everyone assumes the stadium is full of those fans, when in reality those fans make up a very, very small percentage. Are there people that ruin the experience for others? Sure, but you can probably say that in most stadiums. It just gets magnified because of the reputation that isn’t nearly as violent as most people assume. I can tell you the Raiders do a lot of behind the scenes things in an attempt to make the fan experience enjoyable for everyone, not just bikers and gang bangers.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Oct 15, 2011 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Oakland does enough of that on it's own

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Oct 15, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

abetted by the SF-based media

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Oct 17, 2011 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah their owner had to die to get this one

It was so close the press actually brought it up yesterday and pointed out they’d finally got a sellout for this game. So don’t act like they’re selling out regularly (and I won’t bring up them playing in the smallest stadium in the NFL either… oops).

by athletics68 on Oct 13, 2011 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't act like the A's are in the Raiders league in terms of fan support.

They won’t be in San Jose, either. Sucks, because I love me some A’s, but it’s a fact.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

What league are the Raiders in?

You do remember they only drew 32,218 to a game last year in a place where they can hold about twice that, right?

The place holds about 63k, which is on the low end for NFL stadiums, but here’s what they’ve averaged the last few years:

2010: 46,431, 73.7% of capacity, dead last in both (Tampa Bay was the only other team under 80% at 75.1%)
2009: 44,284, 70.3% of capacity, dead last in both (worst of 3 teams under 80%, including JAX & DET)
2008: 57,850, 91.8% of capacity, second to last in attendance, tied for 4th worst in percentage (84.5% was the worst that year, by DET)

If you want to shift the goalposts, so to speak, and point to road attendance and merchandise sales, fine. As for home attendance, they’ve been as bad compared to the rest of the NFL as the A’s have been compared to the rest of MLB. That’s not up for debate. It’s a fact.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 13, 2011 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yay, they've been bad the last three years

when they were unequivocally the worst team in football. Talk about shifting the goalposts.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2011 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not just the past three years

But that’s as far back as the complete attendance info goes on ESPN’s site and I couldn’t find the same details anywhere else after a basic search.

The TV blackouts went on a lot longer than the past three years. That simply should not happen.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 13, 2011 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't happen in other cities because ownership buys out the empty seats.

Al Davis never did that, and was unique in that regard. Good for him.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2011 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

In fairness

Besides being perennial losers and having one of the worst stadiums in the league The Raiders are one of a handful of teams that do not buy tickets. They have often been mocked for it and deserving so IMO. However don’t fool yourself, teams like the 9ers “buy” their own tickets to circumvent the blackout rules.

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Oct 15, 2011 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

um, i'm pretty sure it's cause their wacky PSL rule doesn't allow them to do that.

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Oct 16, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

And if you don't believe that, go back to all of the things that have gone on between Davis and the City of Oakland

Returning, changes to the stadium, all of the conflicts, the ways it left the city less willing to deal with other sports-related matters, etc.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm here to pay my respects to Mr. Davis

There are plenty of theory crafting threads on this subject and I would obviously disagree. Don’t get me wrong, I can’t stand the Mt. Davis changes but you could cut the top half of that stadium completely off to produce “a better view” and the place would still suck in popular opinion.

"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra

by Ovale Fan on Oct 9, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Pay your respects all you like

But it’s folly to suggest the situation with the A’s and Oakland has very little to do with what Al Davis has done. They’re considerably connected.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

+1

Frankly I’d also add that an A’s board is the wrong place to “pay respects” to Al Davis after all he did to bone the A’s and their fanbase. The Raiders board (or some other NFL board) would be a more appropriate venue if you feel he deserved respect.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mt Davis does contribute, but...

…I think the stadium would still be an issue even if Mt Davis had never been built.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Oct 9, 2011 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

For different reasons, but yeah

The connection, to me, has more to do with how things soured with the return of the Raiders. I think it’s pretty clear that’s damaged the ability of the A’s to get very far with the city and county in building a new place.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wasn't thinking of that aspect, but yeah, I can see that.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Oct 9, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

He has a lot to do with the Coliseum being a dump

which has a lot to do with the A’s wanting to leave the Coliseum (hence, Oakland).

by BWH on Oct 9, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah...

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Oct 9, 2011 8:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Please no.

The Coliseum is a dump.

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Oct 9, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wish.

Coliseum is owned by the city, not the Raiders I believe.

by BWH on Oct 9, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Correct, sort of

The city and county jointly own the Coliseum, always have. The Raiders and A’s are nothing more than renters.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

"you" meaning the City of Oakland

His benefit to the NFL is immeasurable. His benefit to the Oakland and the East Bay, however, is questionable. Not to mention the flurry of litigation that came along with every last thing he ever did within the City of Oakland.

by BWH on Oct 9, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right on man.

Just read that Al thought Oakland was home too. Felt it was right that they returned to Oakland.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Oct 9, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

That was only because LA didn't build him the stadium they'd promised

If they had, he wouldn’t have followed the free upgrades back to Oakland. He moved back for the “money” pure and simple.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please,

Keep oversimplifying everything.

by RLangford on Oct 12, 2011 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

How is it oversimplifying?

Are you denying that if Oakland hadn’t whored itself out to Al that the Raiders still would have come back for the love of the fans? Spare me.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's oversimplfying

because you’re ignoring that the LA Coliseum was the most miserable dump in all of pro sports by an order of magnitude, and that LA had no coherent plan to replace it. They couldn’t possibly have kicked the Raiders’ asses out of the door harder.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2011 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Amazing what a few wins can do for people…

Wade Hines

by Wader on Oct 9, 2011 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't understand why A's fans are so pissed at Al Davis. He did the same thing we are all wanting the A's to do

and wanted them to do. Make a better environment for your team. He did it. The owner of the A’s could have changed the Coliseum while the Raiders were gone, changed it into a baseball only configuration and the Raiders wouldn’t have been able to come back. He was just smarter than the A’s were.

by theblackpearl on Oct 9, 2011 6:52 PM PDT reply actions   5 recs

I don't see how

The A’s were never in the position the Raiders were – wooed to return by Oakland and Alameda County, along with concessions given such as renovating the Coliseum to give them more, better football seating.

How were the A’s supposed to compete with that, especially when they’ve never had any control over the stadium?

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Everything you write

positions the A’s as blameless for what happens to the A’s. I’d say they were most responsible for what happens to the A’s over the course of the last 30 years (approximately when Davis moved the first time).

To put so much of the A’s problems over 30 years on the owner of a different franchise in a different sport shows a real need to not face the core problems that the A’s have always faced—save during the Haas years.

by RLangford on Oct 12, 2011 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

If case you've forgotten, which you obviously have

The Haas family did make improvements to the Coliseum to make it more baseball friendly. And the city and Schott were negotiating on making even more major improvements that would have made it even more baseball friendly until the the city decided to do a 180 and destroyed the stadium for baseball to placate Al Davis. Now as a result they may lose not one but both teams.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Coliseum had become, by the late 1980's, a really nice place to see a baseball game.

Before Camden Yards ignited a wave of sparkling new baseball-only venues, the Coli was looking pretty good. Somebody (the Haas family? The Coliseum Commission? The city?) plowed a tidy chunk of change into the old girl. New DiamondVision scoreboard, new sound system, more and better amenities, and so on. It was no Wrigley or Fenway, but compared to what else was out there at the time, it held its own. If Davis hadn’t got his gnarled mitts on the place, and it had been given some TLC over the years, it would have had the potential to be a pre McCourt Dodger Stadium. Dated perhaps, but still nice.

Sisko: All right Niners, let's hear some chatter!
Kasidy: Hey batterbatterbatterbatterbatter!
Leeta: Hey batterbatterbatter! Batterbatterbatterbatter!
Worf: DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION!!!

by CmdrKhraanik on Oct 9, 2011 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then why do it on a baseball site where you know that you'll get these sorts of reactions

Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR

by mikev on Oct 9, 2011 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't participate in that site

Because last I checked, it is of poor quality. O figured there would be lots of people here who like both teams because they are from Oakland. Guess I was wrong.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2011 7:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm sure you'll still find a lot of people who like both the A's and Raiders

I am not one of them. My reasons have been given in the past, but primarily they’re two:

The 49ers were the only team in the area when I became interested in football, and the return of the Raiders damaged the A’s.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Understood.

I should be clear that I am not bothered in the least by folks expressing their displeasure with Al Davis. He wouldn’t have wanted it any other way. I can certainly understand someone’s emotional distaste for the Raiders, if not blaming them intellectually for the A’s current lot in life.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2011 7:53 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

So the A's had no say so

as a co-tenent of the Coliseum?

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Oct 12, 2011 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not really

They’ve never had a say in what’s physically done to the place

If I remember right, the only real benefit the A’s got was rent-related. On top of that, they had to play games while construction was going on.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 12, 2011 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Same idea as assuming people on AN would be Giants fans.

There are plenty here who love both the A’s and the Giants/Raiders, but also plenty here who dislike the Giants/Raiders.

Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree

by iglew on Oct 10, 2011 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep

Also same as assuming A’s fans would be Warriors fans… Though to be fair the Warriors and A’s don’t have a history of being both being good and then VERY bad for each other like the Raiders and A’s do.

by athletics68 on Oct 10, 2011 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, it's reasonable to assume a Bay Area fan would also be a Warriors fan

But even then, a lot are Kings fans and many of them probably jumped ship when the Warriors went into the crapper and the Kings had Webber & Co.

But with two football teams, yeah – a lot of people won’t also be Raiders fans.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 10, 2011 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't assume all of them would be, obviously.

I assumed there would be a significant number of them.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 11, 2011 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

As far as the poor quality part,

that site has actually gotten a lot better over the past season or so. While the comments and fanposts are nowhere near the quality of this site, the front page writers, especially Rich, are actually very insightful, and are quality writers. While the site isn’t good enough for a reader to lose track of time by reading through endless wonderful, interesting, and engaging comments like on this site, the frontpage articles are very good, informative reads, and the overall site quality has been rising steadily lately.

"Even if the plane is on autopilot, I don't want a monkey in the cockpit" - ilikeike

by pfeifer on Oct 10, 2011 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Glad to hear it.

I’ll check it out.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 11, 2011 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gamethreads is where it's at. If you can't tailgate.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

"He's chicken curry right now. He'll become beef curry a little later on."
-Keith Smart

by kenntoe on Oct 16, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's also funny that you went to the "pro-SJ movement" angle

Especially when that hasn’t come up here at all until you mentioned it.

The fact the A’s are looking outside of Oakland and San Jose has become such a big goal for them has a whole lot to do with how they were treated as second-class citizens of the place they continued to play in when the Raiders returned thanks to everything they were offered.

Yes, eventually the Coliseum would have become outdated one way or the other, but the alterations that were made to make it more football friendly surely sped that timeframe up. On top of that, it’s probable that had the Raiders not returned, and had the Coliseum not had a huge monstrosity put up, the A’s would have continued along in the place as it’d been, likely with various improvements here and there, before eventually getting a nice, new place in Oakland.

Instead, the return of the Raiders planted the seed for the problems the A’s ran into later on.

As for honoring Al Davis, you could have done that over on the Raiders page on SBN and the connection to the A’s situation could have remained unmentioned.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still blaming the Raiders for something that isn't their fault.

The lack of examining the impact on the A’s future that bringing them back would have is nobody’s fault but Oakland’s.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2011 7:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

You might not want to fault Al Davis for taking the best opportunity presented to him...

…but that’s part of what’s made him so reviled. He left Oakland for selfish reasons, and he came back to Oakland for selfish reasons. Some will say “He just brought the team back home where it belonged.” Others see it as him playing sides against each other to gain the greatest benefit for himself.

Of course Oakland has some fault in the matter in relation to how it’s left the A’s. That doesn’t erase the involvement of Al Davis.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're right, I don't.

His primary interest in life was winning, and he did an excellent job of it. Sucks that the A’s got caught in the crossfire, and that they haven’t had ownership that was interested in the city since Haas died.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2011 7:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   4 recs

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I agree interest has been expressed, I just don’t think it’s been particularly genuine. Hofmann is famously on record saying how badly he wanted to move the A’s to Santa Clara.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2011 7:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

One thing I think we can agree on:

Jerry Brown sure didn’t help anything.

I’d say neither has Ignacio De La Fuente.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 9, 2011 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely right.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2011 8:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

You are mixing Schoyy and Hoffman up, I believe

Hoffman wanted a JLS park, Schott (Who actually offered t0 pay $100M, or about 1/4 of the projected cost, for a stadium on the the Coliseum grounds AFTER the Raiders returned) was the one pushing Santa Clara.

But really, none of this shit matters right now. RIP Al Davis, regardless of how perfectly imperfect (like everyone else) you were.

by jeffro on Oct 9, 2011 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're probably right.

That said, I am of the belief that any post-Haas interest expressed in Oakland has been borne of believing the alternatives were much harder, not borne of interest in Oakland itself.

But yes, your last sentence was the point of all of this.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 11, 2011 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

How is it not the Raiders fault?

If they’d never offered to come back and gotten all buddy buddy with Oakland’s leaders only to turn on them the city wouldn’t be so sports stadium averse, and more importantly wouldn’t have blown 200 million dollars on a misguided “improvement” to the Coliseum. Were the Oakland leaders also to blame for buying the snakeoil Davis was selling, absolutely. But that doesn’t forgive Davis for selling the snakeoil in the first place.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Caveat emptor.

The Raiders offered to come back because it was best for the Raiders. It was Oakland’s job alone to determine whether or not it was best for them.

Anyway, I’m done now, this is not a subject I’m going to change anyone’s mind about, and there’s puttanesca sauce simmering on the stove.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 9, 2011 8:01 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Probably a good idea

Some people loved the guy, some people hated him. Nothing either of us say will change the fact we’re on opposite sides of that dichotomy.

by athletics68 on Oct 9, 2011 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's what bugged me about that deal

They spent $200 million in “improvements” and the dumbasses didn’t make it “Super Bowl ready”? We could have been hosting the SB every 4-6 years if the Coliseum was upgraded back then to Super Bowl standards.

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Oct 12, 2011 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt we'd have gotten one

Remember San Diego made improvements to Qualcomm to bring it up to “Super Bowl Standards”. in 1997 and they were removed from the rotation after 2003 having only hosted it 2x in their updated stadium. Updates that, similar to the Coliseum, drove their baseball team from it (and into beautiful PETCO Park), and have made it hard for the Chargers to sell out games, destroyed what had been a partially open stadium and most damning are actually destroying the stadium due to the new stands slowly sinking (I’ll give Mt Davis that one least).

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

without AL davis

the NFL doesnt exist. he was a winner and he will always be a winner. he knows more about football than most people who play the game.

the last time any team in the city of Oakland was close to winning a championship was the raiders.

Haters Gonna Hate

by Wreckonized on Oct 9, 2011 9:50 PM PDT reply actions  

without AL davis

the NFL doesnt exist.

So, are they reverting back to AFL?? Or did I miss something?

Wade Hines

by Wader on Oct 9, 2011 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Beat me too it

The NFL existed long before Davis and would still have existed without Al Davis. The AFC in the NFL now that’s another issue…

by athletics68 on Oct 10, 2011 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

The NFL as we know it.

That was a pretty obvious assumption on the poster’s part, as Marquez puts it below.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 11, 2011 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The A's were in the ALCS in 2006

Raiders haven’t been close since – so the Raiders are not last team to be close to winning championship for Oakland. And the A’s were the last to have actually done it for the City of Oakland – 1989.

by longtimeasfan on Oct 10, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The last team to bring a championship to Oakland

… County is the Detroit Pistons in 2004.

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by iglew on Oct 10, 2011 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like you. ☺

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by Tutu-late on Oct 10, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does Auckland count?

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by Nico on Oct 10, 2011 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Being in the Super Bowl

is a lot closer than being blown out in the playoffs. If only Al had traded Gruden a year later…though to be fair, you’d have to be insane to turn down what the Bucs offered for him.

I still really hate Barret Robbins for choosing that exact moment to go crazy, though this is admittedly irrational of me.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Oct 11, 2011 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would be the Sharks

"Like I said, it’s like me giving you a high-five and chest bump after you hit for the cycle against the kid in the wheelchair." Vacafan on May 14, 2010

by adragon on Oct 12, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

It may be "evil"

But it may be the only way they stay by the bay. Oakland sure isn’t building a ballpark anytime soon. They canceled the EIR at Victory Court and are now so broke the courts may disband the OPD.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

yea that's the first I've heard about this

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by mikev on Oct 12, 2011 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

i wanna hear more (with sources) about OPD being disbanded… been reading a lot of articles on OPD this morning and haven’t seen anything about that at all.

by AV on Oct 12, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

OPD threatened with receivership

Matier and Ross column (linky) – note the source, and make your decision on how true it might be.

I don't feel that I'm feeling your feelings, about these feelings that you feel.

by doctorK on Oct 12, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

are those different things, receivership and disbanding? i'm not fully clear on the legal term receivership but my first understanding of it is that it just puts a secondary organization in charge of running or making decisions for a primary organization-in-trouble, whereas i would understand disbanding as nullifying the organization-in-trouble altogether, ie., the OPD no longer exists to the point that if oakland wants security it needs to draft a new charter, buy cop cars, hire cops, etc....

by AV on Oct 12, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure of the specifics

But several of the reports I’ve read state that if they go into receivership they’d be disbanded and Alameda Co. Sheriffs would be responsible for policing Oakland going forward.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yyyyyyeeeeeeaaaaahhhh

Right now, a new ballpark is probably the last thing on their minds.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 12, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

i guess i’m moving to san jose too!

(just kidding.)

((not really.))

by AV on Oct 12, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was joking

No one honestly thinks the Alameda Co Sheriff could do the job. Crime rates in Oakland would soar without the OPD.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure, but I mean if they can't even keep things in order with their police force...

…I sure don’t expect them to get anywhere with a ballpark any time soon.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 12, 2011 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

This doesn't make sense

I would think managing OPD would be a tad more complicated than building a stadium.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Oct 14, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure it makes sense

The OPD is a pretty damned important thing for the city and if they’re having the problems they are with it, how can anyone justify making a ballpark a priority right now?

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 14, 2011 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why do you feel so entitled to your negativity regarding the City of Oakland?

It’s not a monolith. People come and go, good and bad.

Lighten up buddy.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Oct 14, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not really interested in carrying this on with you

I know how you get whenever Oakland comes up. I’ll leave it at this: I’m not disparaging Oakland.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 14, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

That will never happen

It is a ludicrous suggestion.

Everybody's got a little light under the sun.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 12, 2011 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yet it's being suggested all over the place today

Face it, this is a possible outcome for the city if they don’t get their act together.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

No it isn't.

Seriously, no one thinks Alameda County Sheriffs would take over policing the City of Oakland.

Judge Thelton Henderson, who oversees the consent decree forcing reforms on OPD, is suggesting OPD is making insufficient progress and if he, Judge Henderson, gets any more fed up he might try to force the dept into federal receivership. That would mean the feds would administer the department (not unlike the State running OUSD), but there would still be Oakland cops funded through the Oakland budget.

What’s “all over the place” is the Judge’s threat and Chief Batts’ resignation. While those are related to each other, in part, the County simply does not enter the equation.

As an aside, Henderson’s threat is fairly hollow, and OPD ain’t going into receivership either, though the dept clearly needs to pay attention and respond.

You’re conflating several story lines you don’t really understand because doing so happens to fit the “Oakland is fucked so the A’s must move” agenda you already believe.

Everybody's got a little light under the sun.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 12, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You mislabel my agenda

My agenda isn’t Oakland is so fucked so the A’s must move. My agenda is the A’s need a new stadium BADLY and the only way that’s going to happen is with the ONLY plan on the table right now… If Oakland comes up with a viable plan and 200 million dollars I’m all for the A’s staying put. But they haven’t and they won’t.

by athletics68 on Oct 13, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's not an emergency

And even if Oakland were ready to dig tomorrow there doesn’t appear to be any interest on the part of management. So your point is moot.

Looks like you are going to have to wait for Wolff et al. to sell the team before you get your new stadium.

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Oct 14, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or until they build in San Jose

Assuming of course Bud pulls his head out of his ass in our lifetimes…

by athletics68 on Oct 14, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

kinda

There have been rumblings on newballpark.org that the city has not yet spent any money on the EIR. Considering that they supposedly started on this process 295 days ago , that would be tantamount to a cancellation at this point.

I don't feel that I'm feeling your feelings, about these feelings that you feel.

by doctorK on Oct 12, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh

If true, Oakland is well and truly dead as far as keeping the A’s is concerned.

This would probably be a strong part of why Beane seems so certain they’ll finally be getting word from MLB on going forward one way or the other.

Last of the Ninth - Photography

by Flashfire on Oct 12, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Beat me to it

But yes that was where it was first broached. But even if those rumblings aren’t true, which I think they are, the fact Oakland has yet to even release the preliminary EIR almost 6 months after they said they would speaks volumes. They haven’t even moved beyond the preliminary phase if they’ve started at all. As many suspected Oakland is just dragging their feet hoping to derail San Jose, not actually doing anything to keep the team beyond hoping they’ll play in the Coliseum indefinitely. Which is asinine since they ARE spending money on an EIR at the Coliseum for a new football stadium. They’re essentially hindering the A’s too do what???

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think the City can spend that money on anything else at this point

"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King

by Buck Turgidson on Oct 14, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Certainly a polarizing figure. If you are a fan of football, I would recommend reading about him.

I too am of the generation that grew up with the LA Raiders, not Oakland Raiders. I was always a Steelers fan growing up because of my birthplace, Pittsburgh, and my dad. The niners were my second team. The Raiders were irrelevant. Still, I am happy they came back to the Bay Area, there’s plenty of room here for fans of both teams. I notice many people are fans of both local teams mainly because after years of watching only their games on TV and them sucking so bad, it’s nice to watch some good football for a change.

Coincidentally when Al died, I was in the middle of this book called “Badasses” about the 1970’s Raiders…it becomes clear that Al Davis knows football in and out and treated everyone on a personal level with respect.

Some of the other stories I’ve read about him taking care of dozens of players financially after they were out of the league, etc., even his “abstain” vote on the collective bargaining agreement reportedly was because he thought they were unnecessarily screwing over the players. He loved football and loved football players.

As for his impact on the A’s, I’m with jeepers. Every other team found a way out of their multipurpose stadium, including even the pathetic Marlins, who I believe have no fans at all as Miami is full of retirees and transplants from the Northeast anyways, or people from Cuba who don’t give a shit about the Marlins anyways.

So if the Giants, Reds, Pirates, Indians, Marlins, Astros, Padres, Mariners, Twins, Phillies, etc. were able to make it happen, it’s on the A’s and the City of Oakland. Al Davis is a character in the saga but not really the man to focus the rage against, this thread has named many other more deserving recipients of our ire.

by Billy Frijoles on Oct 11, 2011 10:44 AM PDT reply actions   5 recs

"Badasses" was a great read, finished it last week.

Whatever else I may feel about Al Davis, the man lived a hell of a life. It’s impossible for me to castigate the man for his shortcomings without acknowledging his many achievements. In the end, he earned my respect.

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by CmdrKhraanik on Oct 11, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well said, jeepers. Rec'd.

I was trying to figure out a way to put my thoughts and feelings in words, and you did it very well. Better than I could have.

I mostly love Al Davis, though I’m not at all blind to his many faults. He created the football team that I loved, and will hopefully love again (though it’s been a while). He helped create the (sorry to say it) greatest league in professional sports and bring it to where it was in, let’s say, before Bill Walsh came around.

Al’s ways were great in a league that really wasn’t very professional or sophisticated. If no one is optimizing the game, then a maverick personality and a go for broke strategy can often succeed. But, once the Bill Walsh and Bill Belichick types of the world enter the league and professionalize it, a new approach is needed.

Al Davis couldn’t compete anymore in today’s NFL. He didn’t change with the league he helped create. The decisions that worked in the past didn’t work anymore, and he wasn’t willing to change his ways.

That’s not to his shame. In recent years, he’s pretty much been the way I might like to be when I’m his age – ornery, cantankerous, rigid, loving every minute of it and unable to figure out why everyone else doesn’t see the world the way he does. And, frankly, it’d be even more fun to thumb my nose at the world if I were the managing general partner of an NFL team.

Post Al, the Raiders have a better chance at success. At the same time, neither the Raiders nor the NFL would have been here in this form without him.

I’ll take the bad with the good. All in all, a life very well lived and a legacy to be proud of.

RIP, Al.

Do you know the way to San Jose?

by eastcoasta'sfan on Oct 11, 2011 12:02 PM PDT reply actions   5 recs

If the Raiders move to LA

do you guys think that will make it easier for the A’s to stay in Oakland?

R.I.P. Mr. Davis.

Re-sign Josh Willingham now!

by sf drift king on Oct 12, 2011 12:50 AM PDT reply actions  

No

At this point what’s done is done. The city is on the verge of having to disband it’s police department, they’re adverse to spending money on the A’s as they’ve yet to spend a dime on the VC EIR, and frankly the A’s and MLB gave up on Oakland several years ago. Unless the Raiders leaving magically makes several hundred million dollars appear in the Oakland coffers I don’t think the Raiders leaving would change much of anything for the A’s.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I tend to agree with this.

Even if the city did get seriously interested all of a sudden, MLB wouldn’t be and really the team has no reason to be, either. Where would they play? The Coliseum forever?

A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz.
~Humphrey Bogart

by UncleLeo on Oct 12, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

The only way they stay in Oakland at this point is if the city makes a hefty financial contribution to a stadium or they find a new owner willing to blow a billion dollars on the team (500 mil to buy the team and 500 million to build the private stadium). Neither of which seems a likely scenario.

by athletics68 on Oct 12, 2011 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

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