Kurt Suzuki - Black Hole of Suck? Or the Best Available Catcher?
I had this post drafted for a while, and I'm throwing it on today to piggyback on ElCroata's Kurt Suzuki post. Unofficial Kurt Suzuki day!
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I used to like Kurt Suzuki, a lot. I even got his t-shirt, back when he was the blasphemous #24. Kurt wasn't the greatest but after Kendall he was an encouraging young bright spot on the team.
Here are his hitting stats in 2008 and 2009: Not bad for a catcher. Not an obvious liability in the lineup.
.249/.346/.370 - 7HR - .320 wOBA (4th out of 9 qualified C's) - 3.0 WAR (5th)
.274/.313/.421 - 15HR - .321 wOBA (4/9) - 3.0 WAR (5/9)
I'll take that from the catcher position. Given that he played so many games, it was generally well above average for major league catchers as a whole.
Skipping ahead to 2011, his stats are pretty abysmal. And they are somehow better than his 2010!
.237/.301/.385 - 2.2 WAR (better than only John Buck and Miguel Olivo...Yikes).
He was 8th in wOBA and 7th in WAR out of 9 qualifying catchers. It's worth expanding the view beyond just qualifying catchers, with the understanding that catching enough games to qualify could tend to impact stats downward due to the workload. Still, by my count, there are approximately 35-40 catchers who saw time in the majors in 2011 that hit better than Kurt, including such luminaries as Ryan Hanigan, Wilson Ramos, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Ryan Doumit, and Nick Hundley.
One obvious flaw that we are all familiar with as A's fans is his penchant for infield pop-ups and GIDPs with runners on base and in high leverage situations. This is not an illusion, in 2011 he had the lowest Fangraphs clutch score out of all mlb players. Yes, an abysmal -2.46. Most sources say clutch is not a great predictor of future clutchiness (career stats are better) but it does tell you how bad he was in 2011, last in the league. Which made him extremely painful to watch.
Also, I know this was just one AB, but I can't really get over the HBPK. I imagine his teammates still rag him about that. It's doubtful he could live that one down. But he's great at defense, right?
As far as I can tell, there's no great way to quantify catcher defense, and how well he works with the staff, but his percentage of runners thrown out is awful. ElCroata broke it down for us in a previous post:
Suzuki actually only threw 16 guys out in 92 attempts for a 17% CS. It doesn’t really change the tendencies (he is slightly worse than in 2009, but better than in 2010) but does put the number down even more. BB-Ref keeps a good track of that here.The league average this year is 23%, btw.
Also ElCroata just showed today that Kurt was good at blocking pitches, but is on a significant decline.
I have no idea how much of an impact catchers have on pitchers, but he certainly didn't help anything with the Gio and Cahill implosions this year.
So, assuming any defensive/intangibles don't really outweigh his lack of offense, what are our options?
With no obvious catcher prospects waiting in the wings, ideally we would find someone who would be with the team for more than one year, especially because I don't see 2012 as a contending year (though you never know, of course).
Internal options:
- Landon Powell - can't play every day, and can't hit.
- Josh Donaldson - ??
- Anthony Recker - has not looked good in extremely limited MLB time.
I feel like Donaldson and Recker deserve a chance to compete for the backup C job in spring but I think either of them would actually be worse than Suzuki as a starter. I also think that if we could acquire a better backup who would actually make Kurt worried that he could lose playing time to a good backup, then we should do that.
Free Agents (via MLBTR):
Do Not Want (mainly because they are old and/or worse than Suzuki): Rod Barajas (36), Ivan Rodriguez (40), Henry Blanco (40), Jason Varitek (40), Jason Kendall (38), Josh Bard (34), Henry Blanco (40), Ramon Castro (36), Dioner Navarro (28), Brian Schneider (35), Gerald Laird (32),
Yes:
Ryan Doumit (31) - $7.25MM club option for 2012, $8.25MM club option for '13 with a $500K buyout. The Pirates have a guy they like in Jason Jaramillo who is way cheaper. I think there is a very good chance to trade for Doumit even if the Pirates do sign him.
Yadier Molina (29) - $7MM club option with a $750K buyout. He's never played for anyone else but the Cards. My guess is they are picking up his option (especially as they went to the WS).
I would mention Kelly Shoppach but his option is definitely going to be picked up by the Rays at $3.2M. Damn the Rays and their smart contracts.
Maybe?
Jose Molina (36) - Jose is still good, and I am willing to bet he will stay good for at least 2012. The downside is he has only been a full-time starter for one season in his career (but that might actually mean that his age isn't as much of a factor). Also, the Molinas are pretty much guaranteed to be awesome. Can we sign their kids now?
Ramon Hernandez (36) - This is kind of an emotional pick, obviously, but he has played well for the Reds. My worry is that in the O DOT CO I'm not sure if he would be an upgrade over Suzuki.
Chris Snyder (31) - $6.75MM club option with a $750K buyout. Is this a typo? Who signed Snyder to this crazy contract? Anyways, option will almost certainly be declined since they have Doumit and Jaramillo available. He has brought his K rate down quite a bit, resulting in a good season of part-time play. An unknown quantity to some extent, who knows if he would be better than Suzuki as a full-time starter. 0.7 WAR in 34 games is decent though.
So, the free agent pool isn't really guaranteed to bring any significant upgrade over Suzuki.
Trade Targets?
My feeling is that generally speaking, very good catchers are not traded that often. But there might be blocked backup or minor league catchers that we could try to pursue. There might also be Saltalamacchia-like reclamation projects that would be worth bringing into the fold as a backup who could push Kurt.
In terms of major league catchers, here are some names of potential trade targets, trying to stick to players that might be realistically gettable...although the two questions that pertain to all of them are: 1) are they available? and 2) do they really represent an upgrade over Suzuki? Not sure on any of them:
Nick Hundley - his 2011 was definitely better than Suzuki, but career has been up and down for the Padres.
George Kottaras - backup for BrewCrew. Had a better wOBA than the starter, Lucroy, but that doesn't tell us much, as I believe Catchers' hitting stats generally go down with a higher catching workload.
Francisco Cervelli - I actually think that he would be good in a full-time role, he is not going to get the chance with Russell Martin in front of him.
Wilson Ramos - Do you think the Nats would part with him? I like him, very solid, 3.1 WAR, .267/.334/.445
Jason Jaramillo - If the Pirates pick up the option on Doumit, Jaramillo is the backup, we might be able to make a play for him (at this point I would rather have him at his price than Suzuki at his current price).
Ryan Lavarnway - I think the BoSux get rid of Varitek, but they have Saltalamacchia starting. I think Lavarnway could be had. However they probably want to try to package Lackey in any trade.
Geovany Soto - Theo might be cleaning house there. He may want Kurt (whose popups would play better in Wrigley than in Oakland). Soto might be had. Not sure if he is much better than Kurt though.
I am not familiar with most teams' prospects, but potentially we might be able to get a blocked prospect at the catcher position from some other team (maybe from a team like the Giants, Braves, etc., who have an entrenched star catcher).
Given the above:
- Should we replace Kurt?
- If so, who should we replace him with?
- Is the replacement really an upgrade?
- Is Kurt a black hole of suck? Or is he a decent MLB catcher and our best option?
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Just to throw some perspective at this topic
Last year, per Fangraphs, Kurt Suzuki was worth 2.2 WAR.
There were 8 teams that received less production from their backstop combinations.
There were 13 Catchers with a minimum of 250 PA that provided a higher individual WAR.
I’m not interested in debating the merits of Kurt Suzuki. However, if you think he’s a “Black Hole of Suck” then your opinion isn’t based on anything resembling the facts.
The monster at the end of this blog.
hey dude, offtopic but I pinged you elsewhere on the intertoobnets.
OOTP 12 is on sale for 20 bucks through the end of the world series, in case you haven’t pulled the trigger on it yet.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Yeah, for 20 bucks it's an absolute no brainer purchase.
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
DURRRR THEY’RE TOO OLD, BABIP IS TOO HIGH, TOO MANY Ks, DURRRRRR
Sure, which was why the question was posed.
I feel like Kurt has gotten a lot of AN hate in 2011, mainly because he has been so bad in high leverage situations.
I’m not interested in debating the merits of Kurt Suzuki
That’s kind of what this post was for; A lot of people have been calling for Suzuki to be traded, I’ve seen many people even suggest making Donaldson the everyday catcher (which as you could see above, I am against). I attempted to illustrate that if you look at it rationally, he might be the best option we have.
Still, I can’t help but think that his recent decline both offensively and defensively does not bode well. If we could get something of value for him, I might trade him and grab someone else.
by Billy Frijoles on Oct 18, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
You can debate the merits of Suzuki all you want
I just don’t want anyone trying to do so with me.
IMO, if you’re truly looking for a “rational” discussion on Kurt Suzuki you’d be better served without the inflammatory headline.
A black hole of suck is simply not an intelligent option to pick.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't see the headline as inflammatory.
A lot of people on AN do think he’s a black hole of suck. Billy F is offering alternative views.
Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree
I'll clarify
The option “Black Hole of Suck” has no place in an intelligent, rational, fact and data based discussion on the merits of Kurt Suzuki.
I know there is a large portion of AN who think that’s an apt description for Kurt Suzuki. Those people are wrong. They’re so far in the wrong that I consider it a waste of my time to try and make them see reason. That’s why I feel the headline is inflammatory. It invites a mindset that is NOT conducive to the stated goals of the OP.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Oct 18, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
meh. rhetorical devices have every place in an intelligent discussion. this is an obvious and functional device.
it’d be like judging the rationality/intelligence/factuality of an article by a headline that told me “you’re the GM” and finding everything in the article tainted because… i’m not the GM!!!
by AV on Oct 18, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you're stretching to get there
“You’re the GM” is a completely fantastical example that people know to not be true.
“Black Hole of Suck” calls out to a core readership who actually believe it to be true.
Which is the problem. I can understand the desire for Suzuki to be better than he’s been or the argument that the A’s need to upgrade at Catcher or he’s going to cost too much money. These are discussion points that can be debated; these are largely based on opinion.
When the discussion turns to FACT, the BHoS stance is based on ignorance and/or stupidity. It is not supported in any way by the data. It is as sound as the idea that ancient ships could sail off the edge of the world.
But I applaud your effort.
The monster at the end of this blog.
yes. THAT’S the device: calling out to a core readership who believe it to be true! and then presenting the other part of the headline, the one that doesn’t catch that much attention, through rational thinking as being much more sound.
you can give me a second ovation if you wish.
by AV on Oct 18, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
An appeal to stupidity IS an inflammatory device
Which was my basic complaint.
I also think anyone who believes BHoS is too far gone to bring back. Maybe they can find their way home on their own but it’s a waste of time to go chasing after them.
Yeah… faith meter set at 2.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I don't think it invites the mindset.
I think it invites people who might have thought that to open the thread, read the facts, and reconsider.
Being wrong about something you’ve worked on is a blessing, not a curse, and people are so invested in being right that that gets lost. —Graham MacAree
Your faith in mankind must be set on 11
Or, conversely, mine is set to 2.
The monster at the end of this blog.
LOL, given your screen name I feel your pain.
I only wear it for working out, yardwork, etc.
I never wear it to games!
by Billy Frijoles on Oct 18, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Dioner Navarro
Just wanted to say that i played against Dioner Navarros brother this year.
He plays for the spanish national team and i played against him at the european championship qualifier in barcelona.
that’s all… keep on discussing important stuff ;-)
"I managed a team that was so bad we considered a 2-0 count on the batter a rally." - Rich Donnelly, minor league manager
Do you think he could be a reclamation project?
I seem to remember Dioner being a good catcher at one point? It would be nice to have a better backup, because even if we keep Kurt as the starter I would like to lighten his workload. But you can’t lighten his workload if the backup is Landon Powell, given his health issues and his poor hitting.
by Billy Frijoles on Oct 19, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Dewis
He played for Puerto Cruz for years, then went to play for Nettuno in Italy some three years ago but is back in Tenerife now. Funny thing was that he helped Spain beat Venezuela in 2009 BWC. Also funny that Spain needed to go to qualifiers.
So, who do you play for? Ireland?
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too
I play for Switzerland
Yeah, they did poor at the last european championships so they had to qualify.
We lost to spain but should actually have won in the final game against them.
Their team is all made up with guys from Venezuela, Domenican Republic and Cuba.
This guy played center field for them:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452224
Guy was fast as hell. Teams knew he is going to bunt and played way in and he still made it safe.
from the competition:
http://competition.baseballeurope.com/2011/barcelona/schedule.php
"I managed a team that was so bad we considered a 2-0 count on the batter a rally." - Rich Donnelly, minor league manager
True
I was at the EC 2010 and was surprised at the poor showing, as I know most of their players for years. Nice to see Switzerland do well, too. Do you play in Swiss league?
2011 Oakland Athletics: We have Cy Young pitchers and make yours look like it, too



























