Some Thoughts On Chone Figgins
by Nico on Jan 28, 2011 6:07 PM PST
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PrintSeems like a new thread might be in order for those analyzing the pros and cons of potentially replacing Kevin Kouzmanoff with Chone Figgins. Below are my scattered thoughts (with a 30% chance of Blowers)...
* I can see why both teams might be willing to do a trade that sent Figgins to Oakland and did not change either team's payroll significantly, e.g., if the A's sent Kouzmanoff to Seattle and the Mariners paid the difference between the two salaries.
From the A's point of view, they would probably upgrade slightly for the same money, in a year where they could be neck and neck in the division race. From the Mariners' point of view, either way they're on the hook for the same amount of money but they subtract and comparably replace a player who not only made a bad first impression on the field, but also was yanked from a game for a lack of hustle, then had a shouting match in the dugout with his manager, who was subsequently fired for "losing the clubhouse" -- and we don't know how much more might have happened behind closed doors between Figgins and Wakamatsu from the time of the public dugout spat to the time of Wakamatsu's dismissal. It was ugly and I don't doubt the Mariners would like to have the same payroll, same approximate 3B value, different guy.
* I can't see the A's pulling the trigger on any deal that requires them to spend more money for what is at most a marginal upgrade. I have to believe that if the A's bring Figgins over, it will be with Seattle paying a reasonable portion of his contract. Yes, Figgins offers versatility that could be useful beyond 2011 but coming off a terrible season at age 32 any team has to have legitimate concern over how good he will be going forward.
* Watching Figgins play 2B in 2010, I was frankly stunned at how bad his range was. Granted, I saw a smaller sample than UZR did so I'm not professing to know how bad it was, in general, over 162 games. But shy of Brooks Conrad, I can't recall a 2Bman who looked worse flagging down balls to his left or right.
Yes, 3B requires less range than 2B, yes how a guy plays 2B doesn't entirely tell you how he'll play somewhere else, and yes Figgins has put together really good defensive numbers at 3B in his career. But he looked scary bad at 2B last season the 19 or so games I saw him, bad enough to scare me into saying, "You know what? All things considered, I'll pass."
I say stick with Kouz.
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So are the mariners gm's comments about figgins being the starting 3rd baseman
A sign that talks broke off or to get media to back off
by Athletix Man on Jan 28, 2011 6:17 PM PST via mobile reply actions
fan fest tomorrow for the M's
Would not look good to invite him and trade him the same weekend. I still say that Kouz will have a much better year this year especially with better hitters around him. Kouz has a point to make and he is going to give you 110%
I'm with you on this
regarding Kouzmanoff. Stick with him IMO.
Officially awaiting the 2011 MLB season
by One won lost won on Jan 28, 2011 7:30 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not a doctor
But I’ve seen enough back pain at third base to last me a lifetime.
"The world is your oyster, but you're allergic to shellfish" -Apathy and Other Small Victories
by IChaseFrisbees on Jan 29, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
Mark me down for Camp Chone
I don’t even really care if it’s a WAR-wash and the A’s get hosed on the contract. Watching Kouz at the dish makes me want to twist my thumbs into my eye sockets. Give me OBP or give me DEATH!!!
MLB trade rumors hints that a 3rd team
May be involved: the Jays, who may want to add a 3B guy.
Who might they – or the Mariners – have that the A’s might really want?
by OaklandSi on Jan 28, 2011 6:51 PM PST via mobile reply actions
It's really only Figgins or Bautista that we would want
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
needs moar bacon
by cuppingmaster on Jan 28, 2011 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
How about a pitcher?
The Jays have several good young pitchers I would gladly add.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Honestly, just for the name I'd take him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah
He has a killer consonant/vowel ratio and his ZAR is something to behold!
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jan 28, 2011 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How much would getting Bautista be worth to the A's?
I wonder if it isn’t a possibility that Chone’s intended for the Blue Jays? Maybe the Jays roll the dice if they’re off in arb and get a solid major leaguer for two years and a couple of young pitchers to help them in the near future. They aren’t winning the East this year, so might make sense for them. Seattle gets Kouz and a prospect from Oakland, and Oakland takes a crack at a shot right now by overpaying for a year with Bautista.
Might as well go to San Jose as a winner.
Or stay in Oakland as a winner
Any way you prefer, but as a winner
by OaklandSi on Jan 29, 2011 12:18 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
MLB trade rumors hints that a 3rd team
May be involved: the Jays, who may want to add a 3B guy.
Who might they – or the Mariners – have that the A’s might really want?
by OaklandSi on Jan 28, 2011 6:51 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Sorry for the doble post
I blame the iPhone
by OaklandSi on Jan 28, 2011 6:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Blame it for "doble" instead of "double"
by OaklandSi on Jan 28, 2011 6:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
What does this mean? Is it because we already have seen him? Seems weird...
Justin Duchscherer threw 50-55 pitches in front of two teams today, including the Orioles according to Dan Connolly of The Baltimore Sun. Duchscherer has invited every team except the Athletics to a public workout next Tuesday. Connolly says it’s possible he’ll sign before then. (Twitter links)
All the lights are on at the coliseum right now..,
Maybe the A’s are holding a private fan fest.. Ha
The press event looked like a private fan fest
by OaklandSi on Jan 28, 2011 6:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
theyres a monster truck rally going on
From Jane Lee: http://twitpic.com/3u00a2
www.kapayne.tumblr.com
Finally some power at the Coliseum.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
HAH!
? <——thats not only a symbol that represents what he might be able to ofer any team he’d play for but also a symbol that represents the shape of his back after all the injuries hahahaha
My two favorite baseball teams:
1.) Oakland A's
2.) Whoever is playing the Giants
by WhiteboyBen on Jan 28, 2011 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
so is bobby crosby
Yeah I keep the stickers on my A's hat and don't bend the bill. So what, big whoop, wanna fight about it?
by MudkipzGetHYPHY on Jan 29, 2011 7:30 AM PST up reply actions
Figgins ins a PROVEN WINNER
in 2011 and 2012 he only costs $10M more, he is better and will out perform Kouzmanoff in that time. You have a question mark in 2013 (possible 2014), but its not Eric Chavez bad.
As sleepingcobra pointed out, there is about 13% of the A’s fanbase that will be 90% less likely to gouge their eyes out with the reduction in Kouzmanoff related At Bats. That is worth $26 M to me.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"
I like him just because of upside
I can’t get out of my head how good he recently was, I kind of think he can still be that guy
"You need to get real!"
"upside" as in potential to improve?
He is 33, after all. His best baseball is more likely to be behind him than ahead of him.
by OaklandSi on Jan 29, 2011 12:23 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly
From a pure Athletics fan perspective casting all logic and statistical analysis aside; I would not want Figgins even if he were a 3 WAR over Kouzmanoff AND Seattle were paying 100% of his salary. To me, Chone is a true Commie Red, dyed in the wool Slegna, through and through. Figgins represents the enemy to me. I cannot say my dislike for him is equal to that of John Lackey, KRod or Salmon, or Scioscia, but nonetheless I could never in good conscience pull for Figgins wearing the Green and Gold. Watching him dance around on Oakland turf in 2004 and 2005 celebrating the AL West title will forever leave me jaded. My hatred for the Angels runs very deep and Chone Figgins is like the poster child of everything I find revolting about the Halos.
by Shippee33 on Jan 28, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Your comment is 99 44/100% irrational...
…but I basically agree with it.
Not having to root for Figgy is its own reward.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jan 28, 2011 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Your picture looks awfully young for the intense communist hatred
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
It is
And I am (30 so I grew up at the end of the cold war). But your interpretation was incorrect, my intense hatred is for the LAA Angels. I just have a general dislike for Totalitarianism.
by Shippee33 on Jan 29, 2011 8:58 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Then why do you reach for commie bashing
And, lets be honest, this one is at least a bizarre reach.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Actually, Wednesday night's really busy for me
Can we do it Thursday?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I like this kind of crazy.
I also like yelling “CHA-OWN!” at him. Don’t think I would do that if he were in the green and gold.
Being called a poet as a rock ’n’ roll musician is like being called a physicist as a baseball player. It might have some application but it’s pretty remote. - Richard Hell
by fridaynightfan on Jan 29, 2011 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
We have to keep in mind
that Seattle kills hitters. Last season, a lot of people doubted Beltre, and he was considered a pretty average third baseman. He had a great year with Boston, and now people rank him as one of the best third baseman in the game. I see Figgins bad year last year as a good thing because the Mariners will not expect much in return for him. I know that Oakland isn’t exactly a hitter’s heaven, but Figgins has to have a much better year next year. I expect his average to be around 270, his OBP to be around 365, and his stolen bases to be right around 40. That seems to be a lot more valuable than Kouz considering that Kouz’s OBP is never reallt that different from his batting average.
I totally agree that Figgins' offensive stats will rebound some
To me, the bigger question is why did he look so bad in the field — and by bad I mean “old”? I don’t have an answer to that, just the observation that I couldn’t believe how slowly he moved in the field.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah
Yeah I didn’t notice that, but the fact that you noticed Figgins seeming to move like an old hobbled man is disconcerting. Maybe it was a lack of motivation? Has he ever been on a losing team before?
by Rygoslinglover on Jan 28, 2011 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
He certainly had "attitude issues" at least from the M's POV,
including being pulled for a lack of hustle. But I can’t imagine he “just couldn’t be bothered” to get to balls a few feet to his left. His range just looked bizarrely lacking every time I saw him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
True. He definitely didn't lose all his speed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hmm
Did Figgins getb hurt at all? Kouz seems a bit more injury prone. To play good defense, you have to really want it. Maybe Figgins was so let down, especially since Seattle was predicted to be a lot better than they actually were, that went into kind of a defenesive funk. Maybe he didn’t see the point in playing good D because his offense was horrible. I am hoping that this is true because I think it would be really awkward to keep Kouz at this point.
by Rygoslinglover on Jan 28, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
Stole 42 bases as a #2 hitter behind ICHIRO
Have to think he’d have more opps as a true leadoff guy and not hitting behind someone constantly getting singles
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Yes, Pennington will clog the bases with singles less than that annoying Ichiro
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It must be infuriating always having a man on base when you're looking to run...
Visit my blog the Todd Van Poppel Rookie Card Retirement Plan!!
Ever heard of a double steal?
Pennington was pretty good as the lead runner last year in those.
It could be as simple as his skill set only being good for third and not translating well to second.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jan 28, 2011 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but he used to play 2B a lot better
He wasn’t as good as he was at 3B but he was way better than I saw last year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Really?
UZR and TZ both were very down on his ability to play second even before last year, albeit in SSS. He was something of a -7.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jan 28, 2011 8:19 PM PST up reply actions
He was never good, but there's poor and there's
“Holy crap, that got through too?”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And again, this is pure "small sample eyeballing" on my part,
and I’m not suggesting it to be anything more. It just stood out so much to me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I remember when fans looked at trades and asked one question...
Does it make my team better?
If so, then they are in favor of the trade… pretty simple and as it should be
It actually saddens me a little that fans today have been so beaten over the head with baseball’s financial system that they can’t separate it from what made them a fan in the first place. This idea of speculating on future team budgets and spending limits is just doing too much as a fan imo. It’s not our money and we have very little say in how they spend it.
I’m a fan of baseball… baseball played on a beautiful green field by the team I’ve loved since I first heard the name “Blue Moon Odom” as I sat next to my father on a cool coliseum night… I am not a fan of baseball the business and some account meetings between suits …. so I’ll continue to support whatever moves I see as something that will make this team better and let Lou worry about whether or not they can afford it.
That's exactly how it is.
The financials have an effect on making my team better.
by danmerqury on Jan 28, 2011 8:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
But you have no way of knowing what those financials really are
The books are closed so all you really have to go on is an idea that is formed on passed payrolls and ownership comments. It’s just ironic really…. The only ones that really know what those financial are end up being the very people we’re second guessing. It just makes no sense.
We don't know everything, of course, but we know enough.
Should we laud LA for trading for Wells, then? It may have made them better.
I've been lauding that trade since the moment I heard about it!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even I can't edit a comment.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I guess it was the way the screen jumped when it updated
yeah the Wells deal was a good one for the Angels…. thankfully I don’t think it gives them enough to get them out of third place in 2011
If you think it makes them better.... yes
why wouldn’t we?
How do we know what the Angel’s limits will be 2,3 or 5 years from now? So much could happen to change their situation (trades, injuries, retirements, increased revenue, etc) that we are fooling ourselves if we think we know enough to form an opinion factoring in financials
What?
Trades? Wells has a no-trade clause (which he chose to waive in this case).
Napoli has already been traded (for a song) to the Rangers, the front runner to win in the AL West. He goes a long way to resolving their first base issue this year, by putting him in a platoon with Moreland. He can also be a good (hitting) backup catcher.
If you’re taking injury risk into account, this trade looks even worse for the Angels. Napoli is arbitration eligible, meaning the Angels have no financial obligation to him beyond this year.. Rivera was on the last year of his contract. Wells is 32 years old and is signed through his 35-year season, for over $20 million a season.
Increased revenue doesn’t mean that the team has to waste their money on a decent player that’s paid like an MVP.
Unless you’re predicting salary inflation to be around 25% per year, there is no way that this trade could ever look good.
This is a beautiful sentiment
I am with you on the reasons to love baseball and they mostly apply to me (my dad’s a foreigner and didn’t know much about baseball). But I disagree that its sad to see fans being interested in board room decisions. I think not only can it help a fan understand why “we don’t go out and get albert pujols.”
Also I think it does serve as a slight check on the team in general. Decisions won’t be made by the GM looking at an AN poll result, but ty will know that they will have to justify their actions to the most rabid followers.
Further, I think, as an adult, its fun playing arm chair GM
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"
Understanding why we can't sign Albert Pujols isn't the same quibbling over salaries like these
It’s like saying anyone that sees the sun understands solar winds.
Playing arm chair GM should be about what we can see… and that’s players on the field not closed books.
OK I stared at the sun for three hours straight today
and I think I understand sola4dv56fbm sfJ#0v.
Where’d everybody go?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
lol
and for the record I respect your takes …. i just think you’re talking yourself out of something you think could actually make the team better.
Take the better player and be happy man… let the grown ups worry about the money…. it’s more fun that way.
I'd be pretty happy with a Kouzmanoff for Figgins trade, even if it included Blevins
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
How many lefties...
…do you need in the bullpen?
They’ve got Fuentes and Breslow who are already better than a pretty good Blevins. So we’re dealing from a position of strength.
Personally, I think the difference between Blevins
and a 35-year old Fuentes is pretty small. That’s one reason I didn’t like the Fuentes signing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
good point
I totally forgot about Fuentes
Yeah then I guess I’d be for dealing him too but I’m not sure talent wise Kouz and Blevins for Figgins is fair. I feel like we’d be giving up more in talent.
by sactownbull on Jan 29, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
How could you forget Fuentes? He broke AN.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2011 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure I see Figgins as a "sure thing" as an upgrade,
but the fact that Kouz has a balky back is enough for me to be ok with a trade if it does go down. Otherwise I’d probably be against it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Surely
Figgins will get on base more often than Kouz would.
And surely he’d steal more bases.
And don’t call me Shirley.
And he'll slug worse and play defense that is ??? as good/worse
And cost more and be older.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not so Moneyball
Our OBP last year was appalling. Nothing like the cliched understanding of what you’d expect from an Oakland team.
Even if the market inefficiencies currently favor defense over slow sluggers who walk, you still need to get on base to score runs and win.
Chone helps us with our biggest deficiency. And he’s a marginal downgrade on defense.
The money and age are not a factor for this year. This year he makes us better.
And in 2012, I doubt that Kouz would make us better. And surely the Wells deal indicates that Chone could be unloaded if we ate a bit of his contract. He can play multiple positions after all.
I can't believe this post
hasn’t been absolutely shredded yet.
I have fun looking into everything I can as a fan.
Just because I don’t fit your definition of a fan doesn’t mean I’m any less of a fan.
by Rebuilding Season on Jan 29, 2011 1:12 AM PST up reply actions
Are you down with OBP?
It’s pretty straightforward, I think.
Kouz’s career OBP is .302.
Chone’s career OBP is .359.
Kouz might be a shade better at defense, but over his career Chone’s been a better than average defender at 3rd.
Chone’s an offensive upgrade who won’t hurt us defensively.
And I think this is motivated by some back room shenanigans for the A’s to take on some more payroll. Sort of like taking on Sheets at $10M last year.
Kouz was a really bad offensive player last year and there’s no reason to think he’ll get better.
Also with the bullpen upgrades they can afford to let Blevins go.
That’s how I see it going down.
Do you think Figgins speed could be an equalizer defensively?
With all the foul ground at the coliseum I mean
Maybe, although Kouzmanoff was pretty good too
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah he was... which is why I asked
Kouz really impressed me with the way he played the foul ground as a first year Athletic.
If you want a metric to back that up, his TZ was +6 and TZL was +9
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
Third
I think he’s much better and more comfortable at third.
You know, with all the focus on defensive stats I think people sometimes forget that the difference between a good third baseman and an average third baseman is well less than one chance a game.
Whitey Herzog described the amazing awesomeness of Ozzie Smith in his prime as: “He takes away one hit a game.”
Ozzie was good for six plays a game, over a very good shortstop who’d make five plays.
The difference between Kouz and Chone will be the difference between 3.4 and 3.0 plays per game.
Ruh-roh
Aren’t you the guy who predicts things exactly as they’re about to happen?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Amazing Criswell
I predict…that Natalie Portman will win the Oscar for best actress this year. And then renounce acting to become a devotee of a new Bowie based religion.
I predict…that the A’s will trade Kouz and Blevins for Figgins, and then win the AL West. But will renounce the pennant to become devotees of a Bowie Kuhn based religion.
I predict…that Nico will join the Velvet Underground. But only for the first album, and then have an affair with Jackson Browne.
And die.
I still remember, quite vividly, the day I woke up, sleepily opened the Chronicle, got to the obituary page and saw “Nico” and seriously considered just going back to bed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You read the obituary page?
Ghoulish.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
It's kind of like a four-car pileup or cleavage
You know you shouldn’t look, but..
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
like hell you should't
Official Athletics Nation Rotating Tagline Editor - Pam liked my old sig better.
My thoughtful watermelon is easily mistook for an early American catapult.
Yeah, but...
…she also got to be in a Fellini movie.
And had affairs with Dylan, Lou Reed, John Cale and Jackson Browne.
So, she’d packed a lot of living into that stretch.
Them's some ugly dudes
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
No. You're too pretty on the outside
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Who knows...
whether Kouz will turn it around this year, or Figgins will turn it around. It is anyone’s guess.
My guess is the Figgins is more likely to have somesthing to prove, and that if the A’s go in that direction, they would be willing to absorb part of the difference in salaries.
But even if it never happens, this will really give Kouz reason to prove everyone wrong. It is not really a Win-Win situation, but definitely an exciting time to be an A’s fan.
I think 1989 and 2001 were more exciting times to be an A's fan
My excitement was also higher in 1988, 1990, 1992, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. I was too young to be really excited in 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, and 1975 but those were also probably very exciting times to be an A’s fan. 1980 and 1981 were also a long time ago but they were probably more exciting than 2011.
So I’d say now is a moderately exciting time to be an A’s fan.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
(opens arms, searches for human being)
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
Not a big fan of the streak?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Yes 2002 was a more exciting time to be an A's fan than 2011
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2011 3:12 AM PST up reply actions
I'm just impressed you can remember how you felt during all those seasons
I can barely remember what I had for lunch.
I’m cautiously optimistic about 2011 but I doubt any A’s team will excite me like the late 80’s early 90’s teams.
But seriously, folks....
Is Oakland On EVERYONE'S No Trade List?
And what are the odds he’d waive it?
by AsFan72 on Jan 28, 2011 9:06 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I bet he'd waive it if we picked up his 2014 option. Otherwise.....
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 9:15 PM PST up reply actions
More on Figgins' no trade list
That list was drawn up when he signed with the Mariners last offseason. Seattle had just completed a contending season and were widely believed to be a real contender to win the AL west in 2010. By contrast, the A’s had just completed three straight losing seasons.
by OaklandSi on Jan 29, 2011 9:52 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
If he is to be believed,
he said today he wants to stay in Seattle. Why he’d want to stay with a team that just lost 100 games and where he sparred with the manager/team, I’m not sure.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That manager is gone
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2011 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
Milton Bradley wonders who the replacement will be
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"
Too lazy, and too late
for me to read all the comments here… but put me int the Kouz camp. I don’t see how Figgins is that much of an upgrade.
A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.
I still think the best place to improve would be a starting pitcher.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 10:36 PM PST reply actions
Is there any chance Toronto would trade Bautista for Kouzmanoff, DeJesus & Donaldson?
Buy some class, act like you've been there before.
Not if they have any brains
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 28, 2011 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
fuck it
take figgins. a SLIGHT upgrade. Ya Kouz got the power behind the bat but how do we know he isnt still “not used to AL pitching” as opposed to figgins not hitting as powerful but better average. PLUS he steals a shitload of bases so not only would we gain someone who gets on base more than Kouz but ALSO we would gain “steal wise” what we lost when we traded Rajai away. A slight upgrade for the same price is better than no upgrade at all.
and if we dont get figgins. fuck it Kouz is still good. Maybe he snapped out of his slump offencively ESPECIALLY knowing his future in oakland has been questionable this offseason. Seein him in the new gold jersey on media day hearing him talk about 2011 with such ambition and enthusiasm makes me have faith in him.
either way trade or not im down.
My two favorite baseball teams:
1.) Oakland A's
2.) Whoever is playing the Giants
The more I think about this, the more this makes sense for the A's if the M's pick up some of the bill.
It’s certainly not a terribly exciting move, but if you believe that Kouz’s production and/or health look ready to decline more rapidly than Chone’s, then this puts someone at third base for the next couple of years. Remember than next year the A’s will have three outfielders and a second baseman leaving via free agency, and not a ton of prospects either pushing their way up or very attractive to trading partners. This move would at least reduce the number of empty slots that need filling via free agency.
Poor Kouz
I hope he stays with us this year and goes off on opposing pitchers. I don’t think the dude was horrible enough to warrant all this “we need to upgrade at 3B” talk.
But then again … I have no clue what WAR and all those numbers are.
This is incorrect
He was very poor at the plate, but he was an elite defender, with a total value of ~3 wins. Meanwhile, Chone was nearly as bad at the plate and a very poor defender.
Why does Kouz’s bad hitting season in a new league stick more than Chone’s bad hitting season in the same division?
Figgins track record suggests that this season was an outlier
And Kouzmanoff had an outlier of a great defensive season. Figgins has been consistently good at 3rd. I don’t put much weight to his adventures at 2nd.
I am still taking Figgins over Kouzmanoff.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"
OK Class here's the deal.
Figgins “hobbles” around like an old man , has questionable range playing 2nd base and he will play better than Kouz? Da n right he will . If he’s that hobbled and old how did the guy manage to steal 42 bases? Less range required at 3rd works in his favor too , and with an improved attitude his numbers return to normal in my opinion. The best thing to come out of Seattle was Nirvana , and even that had a sad ending. No, Figgy in Oaktown’s a good thing ,and if he regains his offensive numbers maybe it rubs off on the rest of the squad and we can raise our anemic team B.A. . Just say yes.
Figgins more dangerous
The alarming lack of power in the A’s line-up loses HRs in this deal, but Figgins is still a better offensive weapon. A’s throw in Blevins M’s throw in some cash seems fair.
How to add power to the line-up. Let’s hope Carter mashes in Spring Training forcing his way into the line-up. Dejesus becomes 4th OFer.
DeJesus?
No way he becomes a 4th outfielder. He is very under rated as a allstar type player. Unless Carter just smashes in ST it will be impossible to make the team. More likely would be Connor jackson being released or traded and Carter as a 4th option.
There's just no way Carter makes the starting OF
unless there are injuries. DeJesus, Crisp, and Willingham are set, with Sweeney also a far better option until Carter proves he can play a passable OF.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think the odds of either Willingham, DeJesus, Crisp, or Matsui
not being healthy on opening day are astronomically high.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Ozzie Smith Cardinal teams
If the A’s made the playoffs with their current line-up with Figgins in Kouz out it would be one of the least powerful playoff teams since the Ozzie Smith — Willie McGee Cardinal teams. Reasonable HR estimates: Susuki 15, Barton 12, Ellis 12, Pengtn 6, Figgins 6, Dejesus 8, Crisp 6, Willingham 20, Matsui 22.
They also were at or near the top in OBP in their winning years
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2011 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
I am guessing this quote comes from the grain of salt laden “fanfest” (whatever one of those is) but figgins wants to stay and win in Seattle.
I am only pretty on the outside
dannycakes can also be called "hipsterbot"
of course he says that
He is at the fan fest so that is what a player will say. He will also want his option year be picked up to approve the trade just watch and see.
welcome the chone....
3 years at 26 million is worth it for a top of the order hitter who walks a ton, steals bases. Yes, he can’t play 3rd well – but he could be moved over to 2nd base if/when Ellis departs after the season. Chone, despite is horrible year who give us another weapon we can only dream of.
1. Coco
2. Chone
3. Willingham
4. Matsui
5. Barton
6. Suzuki
7. Dejusus
8. Ellis
9. Cliff
Or however you slice it, I know Barton a great 2 hitter, but having a 1-2 punch of speed at the top of the order to go along with the added pop of matsui/willingham – we’re talkin’ about a speed, ops all over the lineup + our pitching staff. Light outs Al west!
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
I don't want.
He’s had a very inconsistent offensive career, and he’ll quickly become useless if he loses a step.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
What is 'bouncing back'
for Kouzmanoff? A .300 OBP instead of .280?
I’ll take Figgins at 3rd over Kouzmanoff every day and eleventy billion times on Sunday.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
by hero66 on Jan 29, 2011 4:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
We can put this rumor to bed, it seems.
Source on Figgins to #A’s: “Nothing is going to happen.” More to come on FOXSports.com. #Mariners #MLB
Followed soon after by Olney:
The Figgins conversations with Oakland/Seattle happened three weeks ago. Seattle not motivated to move him; it was never close to happening.
Welcome back, Kouz!
I didn't realize you were veganalyst! This makes it totally different! You're one of my favorite twitter/ANers. - Susan Slusser
I guess this means we have to go back to ripping each other
Hey Bloom!…..up your nose with a rubber hose!
But seriously, folks....
Can we focus on Jose Bautista now please?
Kouz+what gets one year of him? Maybe expand the deal to contain more players from either side?
CF: Crisp
1B: Barton
3B: Bautista
LF: Willingham
DH: Matsui
RF: DeJesus
C: Suzuki
2B: Ellis
SS: Pennington
That’s a pretty beastly offense.
Buy some class, act like you've been there before.
I doubt he's available unless they can't sign him long term
As a partial year rental, I think you still have to start with something like Carter/Green plus Choice/Krol and Kouzmanoff….unless he sucks in the partial year that he’s with Toronto, in which case we don’t want him.
It's because he derived his torque from the buttocks -- cityplANner
by WaddellCanseco on Jan 29, 2011 8:39 PM PST up reply actions
No kidding. Sounds like the Holliday fiasco all over again
only for a player who’s not as pointy-head good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Come on. So we'll just attract a bunch of great new hitters to come to Oakland!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Meh, its only Crisp, Ellis, DeJesus, Willingham, Matsui & (potentially) Bautista
Crisp is an interesting one. If he leaves, we go with Sweeney in CF?
Ellis can be replaced internally by a number of options
DeJesus isn’t a guy I really want long term, and there are tons of better options on the 2012 FA market, he can be replaced internally too.
Willingham see above.
Matsui is never going to get more than a 1 year deal ever again and would be easy to resign
Bautista will definitely leave, and we will need a new 3B. Luckily there are a ton of interesting short term options available on the 2012 FA market.
I’m not worried about 2012, its not like these parts are easily irreplaceable.
Buy some class, act like you've been there before.
I think you underrate DeJesus, personally.
Not sure how you’re foreseeing so easily replacing both DDJ and Willingham, since Carter may or may not play the OF (and might in fact be heir-apparent to Matsui), Taylor is on a fast-track to the land of Epic Fail, and Corey Brown may as well have joined the priesthood for all the good he’ll do Oakland.
Basically, I agree about Ellis and Matsui but think the A’s ought to pick their favorite two of the three starting OFers and try to extend them.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's "only"?
These are the third baseman available on the 2012 free agent market for sure:
Mark DeRosa SF
Greg Dobbs PHI
Aramis Ramirez CHC
Please, pray tell, where these “tons of options” are.
And these are outfielders available for sure as free agents:
Carlos Beltran NYM
Milton Bradley SEA
Mike Cameron BOS
Ronny Cedeno PIT
Michael Cuddyer MIN
Jack Cust SEA
J.D. Drew BOS
Jonny Gomes CIN
Gabe Gross OAK
Carlos Guillen DET
Corey Hart MIL
Raul Ibanez PHI
Conor Jackson ARZ
Jason Kubel MIN
Ryan Ludwick SD
Juan Pierre CWS
Juan Rivera LAA
Cody Ross SF
I see one, maybe two, players on there I’d rather have over DeJesus and Willingham and they’re both old and/or injured.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jan 29, 2011 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
No to Figgins... yes to Kouz...
another lil’ fast guy isn’t gonna make the A’s better this year.
"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en
Figgy is just saying he wants to stay d/t the Ms Fan Fest
Lets see if something takes place in about 2 weeks when figgy looks at the lineup card and see Jack Cust in his lineup…oh wait
Lance "you sunk my" Blankenship
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