Rangers Close To Signing Adrian Beltre? (Or Not?) (or they do!)

Cust definitely had some clutch base-on-balls — I’m going to miss those exciting at bats.

if you cast your mind back to 2006, and exactly who the M’s 3B was whilst we were destroying them to the tune of 17-2.

ignoring the first offer he received, which was also much lower than he was hoping for. I don’t think he can be faulted for that, and as for the improvements the A’s have made on that offer it seems that none of them topped the 70 mil that the Angels offered him.

And as for last year, I’m not sure what we offered him, but if it was 1-2 years rather than 3-4 you also can’t fault him for preferring to play in Boston with a dangerous lineup and twice the fanbase that could be offered in Oakland.

his peripherals made him look a bit like a LH Cahill in 2010.

I think Lewis is for real, perhaps a bit of regression but not much.
Wilson, though, I have my doubts about. IIRC, he petered out at the end of the year too…

He is someone who should be considered far more than Beltre, IMO.

When asking about the title “Angry Grapes”,What made the Grapes so angry?

To the first point, I believe OBP and UZR are the best way of measuring those strengths because there isn’t a feasible way to measure “clutchness” of a walk or defensive play. In the lack of a better option to measure production over the length of a season, I would rather base my decisions on OBP and UZR rather than nothing, unless you can propose a better way to measure value and therefore make decisions on who to keep and who to sign.

If you prefer to just go with WAR, Beltre has a higher average as well as several single seasons far greater than Kouz has shown (I’ll concede he’s had more time to do it and everyone thinks they’re flukes, but last year and 2004 still happened and could happen again. Kouz could have one as well, but until he proves that it’s possible I’ll take the man who’s done it.)

As for clubhouse distraction, I didn’t see that you considered how he would affect the A’s clubhouse, I only saw your estimation of what would happen to that of the Rangers. I respectfully disagree with the statement you brought up: I believe big money players should help you win ballgames. If you have the choice between 2 similarly gifted players, one who is an asshole and one who is Stan Musial, you go with the man channeling Stan. If you have only 1 option and he’s a dick, you sign him if he helps you win ballgames. I believe that many owners and GM’s would agree with me here, as evidenced by A-rod, Barry Bonds, and in other sports T.O., Ocho-Cinco etc.

I agree that I would prefer a transcendent type of player (to use your words), but not to the point that I would sacrifice potential W’s. Chemistry is important, but I do not believe that Beltre would be so bad for the clubhouse as to literally take away his on the field value, or enough of it to make him unsignable.

I agree that this move would not sit well with Michael Young based on his initial displeasure with the idea of moving. However, I would argue that competitive drive is a motivating factor for top caliber players, and that Young is competitive enough to do what’s best for the team. By agreeing to move to DH, he’s telling me that he recognizes:
1 the huge value Beltre’s defense would offer over his own
2 the benefit the team would gain with his versatility at the DH spot (think about Vad in the postseason last year)
3 his value to the team once his glove is removed from the 3b picture

Let us also keep in mind that he has moved twice for the benefit of the team, not once: the first from second to short when A-rod left, and the second time to third for Andrus (I read that somewhere, I think on MLBTR so I’m taking their word for it’s truth), so this is a man with a history of doing what’s best for team success. And after tasting the fruits of his sacrifice last year I can’t imagine him being so upset that it would ruin chemistry or impact his relations with the team (unless they start losing.)

I agree that Ramirez would be a bad fit, but I think this segment of our discussion is moot seeing as Young will almost undoubtedly be DH’ing if they sign Beltre (judging from recent MLBTR reports). I still maintain that they would LIKE the health of Hamilton (and Cruz for that matter, what team wouldn’t?), but I think you’re drastically downplaying the offensive contributions of Kinsler, Beltre, Young, Burbon (possibly, who knows?) and Andrus. Excluding Burbon, those are all studs.

I agree with your opinions about young pitching, and my only reply is that I believe it is too early to make judgments about the quality of the Texas staff. We don’t know how Rhodes will do, if Feliz will start and if so how he’ll do, whether Wilson will regress, whether Webb will be healthy, and whether the minor league arms will be productive (or if they’ll even be needed; the Texas staff could turn out to be insanely solid.) It’s too early to tell, and thus IMHO too early to say that Texas wasted their money on Beltre because of a lack of pitching that will prevent them from making another deep run.

The Yankees looked pretty good even with a thin rotation last year, and the Rangers offense looks better than theirs IMO.

Beltre “nice for a year” could very well be a WS title for the A’s, and who knows what that could do for the team’s funding, the stay in Oakland movement, stadium talks, future fan support, contract extensions, you name it. 15 million a year would be a burden on the A’s, but we dealt with Chavez and Crosby (on top of one another) and look how we’ve emerged. A WS title in 2011 and competitiveness in 2012 followed by 3 years of Beltre burden? I’ll take that any day.

If this is a tl;dr scenerio:

1 Stats are the best tools we have to make decisions, and Beltre’s are better than those of Kouz (even if they don’t take into account “when in the game they happen”)
2 Even if Beltre is bad for chemistry (not saying one way or the other) paying players is about wins first, personality second
3 Young has shifted twice before for the benefit of the team and reaped the benefits of his sacrifices
4 The offense with Hamilton and Cruz missing time is good enough that they should not suffer so far as to miss the division or playoffs entirely
5 The combined value of Beltre’s glove over Young’s and Young at DH over Vlad are significant
6 It’s too early to say yay or nay about the Texas pitching, and further it does not look so bleak as to make signing Beltre a gamble or a bad decision
7 The Texas offense with Beltre could be good enough to win through the pitching inconsistencyies
8 The A’s with Beltre look so good for the first 2 years that the next 3 are a sacrifice I would make.

I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and respond!

Younger – more likely to improve.

i’m glad that if they’re getting him, it’s for a price that most of us felt was too high.

still wish we were talking about the cardinals though.

That’s a dial-tone worthy offer.

I mean, how the hell he got that figure astonishes me…

The guy can flat out take a huge swing and miss and sometime connect – Chris Davis would be a great buy low right now. With Moreland and maybe Young locked at 1B/DH or even more so if Vladdy comes back to Texas – Chris Davis could be bought for maybe a mid level prospect or a Zig or Wuertz. The guy has potential to be a Adam Dunn type power (not he BBs) – Strike out machine to sat the least, but if bought at a cheap price, he could be a nice fit as 3B platoon with Kouz and fill on on days off

a different stage in development.

I think it’s pretty common when a contender team trades with a rebuilding team for a star position player, they’ll give up a younger guy who can fill the same spot for the rebuilding team’s future.

It said Texas has not officially signed any deal with Texas yet but that Michael Young was quoted as saying that he wouldn’t mind a move to 1st base if he needed to.

Whatever, I’m just over it and I’m ready to move on to other things…..

Have fun in that Texs heat bitch!

I’m targeting 2023, and just hoping they deal Barton, Bailey, Anderson, Cahill, and Gio this year to get some really good A-ball players who can be dealt in a few years for even better A-ball players who might be ready when we have any hope of being good again. If that fails, then I think we should rebuild.

I think I posted it. I know I thought it, and can even tell you what bush on the Cal campus, near Tolman Hall, Poochini was sniffing at the time.

The key difference being that I apparently have 30 fewer blackmail photos in my possession.

I found it very informative!

I also agree with just ANotherAsFan as far as his last sentiment goes, root for a new stadium so that we can end all the BS. I don’t know how best to manage the team in the interim, but if the stadium got done it would undoubtedly make things easier on everyone involved, be them managing partners, financially backing partners, the GM, what have you.