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Give 'Em Enough Hope: 7 Out, 25 to Play... Are You Buying In?

2010_the_year_we_make_contact_medium
Is the swimming pool half-empty or half-full?

Star-divide

Hope-logo3_medium
Where there's life, there's Hope. And a DH who hits .200 with RISP.

So, whaddaya think?  Personally I doubt it, but weirder things have happened in my own bedroom, so I haven't conceded entirely.  The Rangers sure look ready to fall over, don't they?  Josh Hamilton ran into the outfield wall and they are currently trying to reassemble him in Nolan Ryan's secret underground lab... maybe they'll switch his knees with Cliff Lee's elbows and we'll get lucky.  I'd be more into believing but the 2010 version of the A's is like Daylight Savings Time: Spring Ahead, then Fall Back.  If they get back to .500 today, that makes a club record 26 times they have progressed/regressed to the median this year.  That kind of right-in-the-center balance is awesome when you are trying to get the 5.1 settings of your speakers correct, but not so good when you're trying to win a division in Major League Baseball... this team is more down the middle than a Jack Cust called third strike with men on the corners and nobody out.

Slugger-bats_medium
Always dreaming of just one more bat.

What must these pitchers be thinking... if we could read the thoughts of Gio and Braden and Anderson and Cahill, what would they be saying?  That if they give up 2 runs they feel like they are certain, or at least in danger, of losing the game?  And their sanity?  I feel like in a sense we have gotten away with murder this year, in that we haven't seen our young pitchers melt down in frustration and paranoia from so little in the way of offensive support.   Yet after all these games the starters are a collective 53-50.... is that even possible?  To be near or at the top in several key pitching stats and still be a tad above .500 as a group?  I swear, when I think of what I'll do if this ownership stands pat with this offense after what we've seen in the way these arms have developed this year, I envision one of you brave people having to smuggle a file inside a cake into San Quentin to bust me out of prison in 2011.

Geren_mgr_medium
Just the thought that if we somehow do pull this out, he will almost certainly win Manager of the Year makes me reach for the drugs.  And I don't even have any drugs.

Somehow everything that's happened this year -- and let's face it, we are all probably stunned to some degree or another that we're even playing games that mean something in September after 3 long years of being eliminated from contention by July -- seems like a prelude... an overture to the madhouse improbabilities that I and others feel are in store for 2011.  But something about the current state of the division makes it feel almost gettable, sort of like that dream that you can almost remember but which escapes you in the transition from sleeping to wakefulness.  I mean, TX has 13 of 25 games on the road, where they generally play like we do, i.e. crap.  The fact that they have played slightly under .500 since July 1st and we aren't 10 games ahead of them by now sends me sprinting for my Happy Place, where I curl up into a fetal crouch and hum Carpenters songs to myself until I fall asleep.  Come to think of it, Karen's daily caloric intake probably will end up exceeding our team's collective slugging percentage anyway, when it's all said and not done.

Chance-monopoly-5x7_medium
Is this the 3-week stretch where the A's end their monopoly on mediocrity?

I don't know what's gonna happen any more than you do but I wanna hear from y'all: do we have a realistic chance at this sad excuse for a division or should I just go into my cave and hibernate until March?  Like I said I kind of fall on the side of fuggetaboutit but I wanna take the temperature of the blog.  Actually I wanna take the temperature of a hot nerdy college kid with glasses, some scruffy facial hair and a medical fetish, but there ain't one around right now so you guys will have to humor me... yay or nay?  Do you believe or is it all just called third strikes at the knees water under the bridge?

Use this thread to pontificate/elaborate/remonstrate and I'll be along with the game thread when it's time.


Current Series

Athletics lead the series 1-0

Mon 09/06 WP: Brett Anderson (4 - 6)
LP: Jason Vargas (9 - 9)
6 - 2 win

Seattle Mariners
@ Oakland Athletics

Tuesday, Sep 7, 2010, 7:05 PM PDT
Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum

Doug Fister vs Dallas Braden

Partly cloudy. Winds blowing out to center field at 15-20 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 60.

Complete Coverage >

Wed 09/08 7:05 PM PDT

Poll
Do the A's have a chance to steal the AL West from the faltering Torqueless Strangers in 2010 or is there a better chance of Justin Bieber covering The Who's "Quadrophenia" for his next record?
Sure, stranger things have happened, and not just when EN goes to Burning Man wearing nothing but a strategically-placed looseleaf notebook.
423 votes
No way... in fact it's more likely Rich Harden will declare that he is dating Greg Louganis during his next postgame interview.
400 votes

823 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 449 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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We can dream

Nothing more I’d like to see than a dramatic comeback from our green and gold in these last few weeks. It would truly make a frustrating season for the offense turn into a magical one and probably shock quite a few of the so called “Experts” who put us deep in the cellar at the beginning of the season. But alas, I realize this can probably only happen if we were playing Seattle and Cleveland the last 27 games of the season and that ain’t the way it is. Our pitching is great- but maybe tiring a bit- and our offense is still at the AAA level. Unless some of the callups show me something they haven’t shown yet, I think we’ll finish in second place – two or three games above .500- and that will be a successful season!

The greenmachine

by greenmachine on Sep 7, 2010 5:56 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

It is competition

Is the concept that you play to win everyday not understood by some of our members?
Many teams have been carried to a pennant by a pitching staff and defense and suffered with a pathetic offense that is painful to watch. A little bit of leadership and a manager that was not brain dead could have made a huge difference this year. Hopefully he will at least keep our hottest hitters in the lineup coming down the stretch and we won’t give too many more games away.
Lets’ go Oakland

by skeeter1 on Sep 7, 2010 6:20 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I'll take a flyer on believing if only b/c it doesn't really cost me anything.

If the A’s have a good week, I’ll keep on. If we fall back to 9 or 10 games, what have I really lost? Stranger things have happened. I just love that I can even ponder if the idea of believing in September. It’s been a few years since I had that luxury.

JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker

by JJ Martin on Sep 7, 2010 6:22 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

This is all I can think about

It’s like they keep teasing me! Down the stretch, we cannot afford to lose a single series. If we sweep the Rangers, I’m totally buying in and I’ll get MLB.TV for the last few weeks to show my solidarity.

If the Rangers continue to swoon, I won’t get a lick of work done, because I’ll just keep waiting for the box scores to update.

Maybe it’s youthful exuberance, but if the A’s can get hot at the right time, we can do it!

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Sep 7, 2010 7:03 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Rutgers student?

Didn’t think there were many fellow A’s fans in NJ, sweet.

What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.

by winchester5 on Sep 7, 2010 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

there are a few of us here and there...

i see quite a few teenagers wearing A’s hats, but i’m not sure if they’re fans or just wearing them because it’s the best-looking hat in mlb

BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?

by jlanning17 on Sep 7, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm actually from the Bay

just went east for school, and now work in D.C.

A lot of kids wear A’s hats around here, but it’s definitely for the color coordination rather than fandom.

It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.

by ru155 on Sep 7, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I voted "sure"

because Rich Harden can do much better.

I’m with JJ Martin – it doesn’t cost me to hope. And hope feels good. Of course, having your hopes crushed feels worse than giving up, I guess. But then, why be a fan?

by boilerdan on Sep 7, 2010 7:25 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

better than a dead guy?

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Sep 7, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh damn - I didn't realize Louganis had died

I need to keep up. I still squirm watching diving from visions of his head hitting the platform. Scary as hell.

by boilerdan on Sep 7, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Greg Louganis isn't dead

Not at all.

Silence s'il vous plait!! Vous ne voyez pas que je suis en train de se masturber?!?

by emperor nobody on Sep 7, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

good news

Then I can safely say that Harden can do better – Greg’s a little old for him.

by boilerdan on Sep 7, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't have much faith this team can go any better than 15-10 down the stretch

Just not enough offense to substain a strong winning streak. So it will take some serious cooperation by the Rangers to win the division. Can they go 8-17 or 7-18? Well, they are hurting and looking pretty bad now, they have a lot of road games left including 4 in Oakland. But that would still be an incredible slide.

"Rollins helps them with the small ball when he's not in the lineup." - Joe Morgan

by Manstein on Sep 7, 2010 7:52 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

There's always a chance

No matter how slim it might be until you’re mathematically eliminated. I don’t think it’s going to happen though. I’m usually an optimist but the offense on this team just isn’t good enough to help the remarkable young pitching.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 7, 2010 7:55 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

The Padres give me hope.

They’re nowhere near as good as Texas, but if you want to see how a team can suddenly drop their pants for no good reason and start peeing all over their cleats, then watch this circus act.
Dropping pop flys, clanking routine ground balls, they can’t do anything right. Why? Because it got in their head … I think the “choke” tag is used far too often in sports, but San Diego is a perfect example of what it really means to grip under pressure. So sad. Oh yeah, my point … if San Diego can do it, maybe Texas can, too.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Sep 7, 2010 8:07 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Flirting with .500

and above is exactly the sort of excitement I am ready for when it comes to the A’s this year.

Honestly, with a team as offensively unimpressive as this, I am afraid the playoffs would be embarrassing. I mean, how would I like to see that series with the Yankees again, but in October. The A’s just don’t play well against really good teams yet.

by Chilango on Sep 7, 2010 8:26 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yankee's in October scares me too

Sure, the Rays may be in first then, which would put the A’s against them – and we’ve been good against them.

But might be more merciful to be 3 games back, watching Texas be the mark.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The A's can play with anybody

that isn’t the Yankees.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Okay, I'll bite. Please tell us about your bedroom.

… unless it involves the Carpenters (either or both, then or now).

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 7, 2010 8:28 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Could Vinny's spot in the rotation possibly go to

Bobby Cramer? According to SuSlu, they’re scheduled to pitch on the same day this week.

Cramer is 2-2 with a 1.94 ERA in 7 starts. He dominated the Mexican League earlier this year by going 13-3 with a 2.95 ERA in 20 starts.

You know how the A’s love giving long-time minor leaguers a shot at the bigs.

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 8:40 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I actually don't mind the logic in this.

Colby Lewis immediately comes to mind as someone

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 7, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, I believe

I want this division.

I dont believe, however, that this team wins a single game in the playoffs if they get there. 1st round sweep. No offense is a hard thing to win with in October, no matter how good the pitching is.

But yes, I’ll dream of another West title. We can do this.

by BigJ7489 on Sep 7, 2010 8:42 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I'd sure hope the pitchers aren't indulging themselves with that kind of defeatist crap

They haven’t been nearly as good as they’re made out to be. In fact, it’s the pitching staff, not the position players, that has been the disappointment this season.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 7, 2010 8:53 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Please explain

How has the pitching staff been a disappointment? They generally keep us in every game … I can’t recall too many games in which Anderson, Cahill, Gonzalez, Braden have just been destroyed. Our ERA is pretty damn good. I know our bullpen could certainly use some work … when I think of the upcoming game(s), I don’t find myself saying, “I hope we can pitch well” … I’m usually saying, “I wonder if we can score 2 runs.”
What am I missing? (And I say this sincerely, not trying to call "Bulls***)

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Sep 7, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

My guess...

PT expected the offense to suck, therefore when they did suck they lived up to expectations.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 7, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No he's not. I wouldn't say the pitchers have been a disappointment

but I agree with PT that they’re overrated. They’re young and they’re holding their own, but they aren’t dominating like the team ERA (best in AL, 4th best overall) makes it look like. The A’s pitching staff has benefitted greatly from the enormous park they pitch half their games in, and also from a lot of luck. The A’s sport the largest difference between team ERA and team FIP, and the difference between the starting staff’s ERA and their FIP is even greater.

by NateHST on Sep 7, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

FIP is a crappy metric

Two reasons: First, FIP gives preference to a ten-pitch strikeout over a one-pitch weak grounder. Second, FIP is all about amassing strikeouts whereas a game plan is about a pitcher going deep into games. How can you rely on a metric that runs counter to a team’s game plan, or what a pitcher actually wants to do?

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not if it means they can only go five innings

How many times have you heard pitchers or catchers talking about “pitch to contact”? The idea is either to strike someone out or, better yet, induce them to pop out or hit a weak grounder or foul out. How many times have you heard a pitcher talking about not trying to strike out every player they face? About getting them to “hit the ball”?

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It doesn't matter what pitchers want to do, or what they even should do

There’s a pretty clear correlation between striking out a lot of guys and preventing runs. It’s really that simple.

the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy

by walk off bunt on Sep 7, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fine...

And obviously for front of the rotation guys, that always applies. But most pitchers are not front of the rotation guys, and they need to establish game plans that don’t call for striking out anybody but do call for going deep into games. The moment you move away from the strikeout pitcher, FIP becomes more and more useless. Besides, who would you rather have on your team, a guy who regularly goes eight innings or a guy who only goes four, but strikes out ten batters in those four innings?

Dan says it’s a question of extremes, the relationship of a ten-pitch strikeout to a one-pitch pop up - but it’s exactly in those extremes where FIP breaks down.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You make the high pitch count guy a reliever and you need a great

defense to make the low K guy effective

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Would you rather have a pitcher who can strike out guys and pitch 8 innings

or a guy who can only pitch 8 innings if he doesn’t strike people out?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's obvious

But being the way things are in baseball, most pitchers will either pitch eight innings and not strike anyone out, or pitch five innings and strike out a lot of guys.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Right. The "pitch to contact" thing is a good strategy for most guys,

and the way to tell the better guys from the mediocre guys is to look at who can pitch 8 innings with more strikeouts.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Eight innings in one game, or in two?

Who do you want, the guy who takes 110 pitches to get through five innings, though with nine strikeouts, or the guy who takes 89 pitches with three strikeouts and goes eight innings?

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The moment you set up equality in either strikeouts or innings...

The answer becomes obvious. But with most pitchers, that’s not how it works.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Right. Most pitchers are fungible. The good ones are valuable.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But there are pitchers who have decent length careers who fit into those two patterns.

I don’t think either Trevor Cahill or Rich Harden is an outlier, despite what Dan may say. A lot of pitchers fit into those two molds to one degree or another. We call the first kind an “innings eater” and for the second, we’re waiting for the break-out moment that may never come - i.e. Carlos Silva, Erik Bedard, Harden himself - sometimes due to just not getting it together, and often due to injury.

But those pitchers will benefit from FIP even before they either transition or fall apart. And the Cahills will have lower FIPs no matter what their eventual careers are like.

I also see baseball as somewhat of a team sport, which FIP obviously does not. So yes, you should take into account the quality of your defense and the smarts of your defensive coordinator (whoever is placing the players) and your catcher and your field. One reason I don’t like FIP is because it takes the “team” out of team sport.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It certainly isn't a good motivational tool.

But it is a good budgeting tool. A coach would hate it, and a GM would love it. We need both coaches and GMs.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

fungible and valuable

are not mutually exclusive.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

They aren't?

How so?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

fungible = easily exchanged for

another one of equal value, whether that value is high or low.

A $100 bill is fungible and valuable. A $1 bill is fungible and not valuable. Your wedding ring is valuable and not fungible. Your toddler’s favorite blanket is not valuable and not fungible.

When it is said that relief pitchers are fungible, the claim is that the market for them stays fluid enough that you can pretty much always pick one up. It was not meant to say — though it’s often interpreted and repeated as if it were — that they are valueless nor that you can get them for free. Whether you want a crappy one that’s cheap or a good one that’s not cheap, you’ll still have to pay what they’re worth to obtain one.

The point is only that when you are willing to pay for one, you won’t have much trouble finding one. In contrast, if you’re looking for, say, a decent fielding shortstop who can hit for power, even if you are willing to pay for him, there just might not be any on the market.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is a good explanation of the difference, but

it’s not a coincidence that players of a plentiful — ie fungible — profile are less valuable — ie paid less — than those of a less fungible profile.

I get that a catcher is valuable in that without one you’d have a bunch of pitches to the backstop and fungible in that there are a lot of guys who can catch pitches. But catchers who can’t hit aren’t as valuable as those who can. In baseball value terms there isn’t much of a difference.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Depends on what you mean by value.

There is value to the market over all, and there is value to you personally. In my examples above, the toddler’s favorite blanket certainly has value to you if not to anyone else.

Both have some correlation (negative) with fungibility, but the correlation is much stronger with regard to value to you personally. Lack of fungibility amounts to a strong disincentive to trade. Likewise, fungibility is a reason for willingness to trade: because you can always get it back again later.

Lack of fungibility can be seen as a transaction cost of any trade. The higher that cost, the greater the need for increase in value (to you personally) in order to warrant making the trade.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

who's grittier?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

.

bait

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So Rich Harden or Trevor Cahill?

"Everybody in the building is standing except for people in a wheelchair." - Doug Woog

"It’s like the lost burrito of Atlantis." - jeepers

by Where's My Burrito? on Sep 7, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Neither will have a top-notch FIP.

But neither will have a top-notch ERA, too.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why wouldn't the high K guy not have a top notch FIP and ERA?

Why wouldn’t the other guy not have a top notch ERA with a great defense and favorable home park?

High pitch counts don’t necessarily mean high BB.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because in the real world, neither of them would exist without allowing a good amount of runs and walks

You’re looking at hypothetical theoretical pitchers at the extremes and applying that towards the mainstream. Any stat breaks down at the extremes. What if there was a pitcher who walked the first three guys in any inning, then struck out the next three, everytime? He’d have an ERA of 0.00. Does that mean ERA is a bad statistic?

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

There are lots of high K, high pitch guys who don't walk

that many people. They’re relievers…and Rich Harden. It’s not a bizarre outlier.

There are also low K guys who benefit from a good defense. Our own Trevor for example.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

These example people sound familiar...

"Everybody in the building is standing except for people in a wheelchair." - Doug Woog

"It’s like the lost burrito of Atlantis." - jeepers

by Where's My Burrito? on Sep 7, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Two answers:

1. And it’s correct in doing so. A weak grounder has a 30%-or-so chance at becoming a hit. A strikeout never will. Besides, you’re picking examples at the extremes. What about a five-pitch strikeout or a three or four-pitch ground ball? Those pitch figures sound far more typical, and in that case, the strikeout is more valuable.

2. Amassing strikeouts is the best way to ensure continued success as a pitcher. It’s literally the very most important factor for a pitcher.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Forget about defensive at bats

FIP is only about strikeouts. It’s not about defensive at bats unless the player strikes out.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But it's very hard to have lots of defensive AB without lots of Ks

Unless you’re Mariano Rivera

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Dan's points are fine

FIP is a perfectly fine metric for pitchers who are very very good and strike out a lot of batters, and for pitchers who are not very good and don’t strike out anyone. But most pitchers fall in the middle, and for those pitchers, pitching to contact is how they get their jobs done. Penalizing them for that is, I think, a mistake.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree that they shouldn't be penalized. In budgeting, I'd pay more

for the strikeout guy than the pitch to contact guy, and I’d trade more to get the strikeout guy. As you say, the pitch to contact guys are common and can easily be replaced.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, but it may not be in the game plan specifically

If a player isn’t trying to “amass strikeouts” but instead is perfectly happy with the pop up or weak grounder, and if the game plan, including placement of fielders, is about ensuring an out is made on the fewest possible pitches, then you’re penalizing a pitcher for following a team’s game plan.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Even the most efficient great pitchers, e.g. Greg Maddux, piled up strikeouts

The reason it’s not the game plan is that most pitchers can’t pile up those types of numbers. For most guys maximizing ground balls in play is the best way to succeed because they’re incapable of piling up strikeouts.

But if they put up a great ERA with a low strikeout rate, it’s really to the credit of the defense mostly. It’s partly to their credit if they have very few walks and massive amounts of ground balls but mostly the defense.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

And even if Maddux didn't strikeout an obscene amount of guys,

he never walked anybody. End result? FIP loves the guy. He had a FIP under 3 for 7 straight years.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ya but without strikeouts he might have been Carlos Silva

They both have walked about 4% of the batters they’ve faced unintentionally. Maddux has K’ed 17% and Silva 10%

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's also possible that as time goes on, Cahill's strikeout rates will rise.

And yet, this year still may wind up the best year of his career. Go figure.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

A Tim Hudson career path is my hope for him.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Even with those, Tim's got a HOF shot.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not much of one

At the age of 35, Tim Hudson has a record of 163-84 and a career ERA of 3.39 with 1515 strikeouts. That’s a very nice line, but even with a shift in emphasis away from career wins, it doesn’t look like a Hall of Fame line. And at 35, it’s not clear how many productive years at the top of his game he has left.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes it's an outside shot

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Bring him back to the Coli to pad his numbers.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can reason with it all you want,

but the bottom line is that the best pitchers from year-to-year have very high K/9 numbers. That’s the single most important factor in predicting pitching success, and so, FIP reflects that. For the most part, pitchers who rely on pitching to contact don’t have as long or as successful careers as pitchers who have the ability to miss bats.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The key word there is "predicting."

And then you’re talking percentages of all pitchers. And at that point, yeah, we all know that strikeout pitchers have greater pitching success. The idea of using a single season’s FIP, for instance, to determine the Cy Young strikes me as a terrible idea. Because a pitcher like Trevor Cahill uses his skills to induce batters to hit balls to a very good defense. If he had a lousy defense, he might still be the same pitcher, or he might not.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He most certainly would not.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If he had a lousy defense, he would probably be a lot worse.

There’s even a real life example this season we can use:

Pitcher X:
60% GB rate 6.85 K/9 4 BB/9 10.7% HR/FB 4.17 FIP 4.15 xFIP

Cahill:
55% GB rate 5.11 K/9 3 BB/9 10.3% HR/FB 4.21 FIP 4.23 xFIP

They’re very similar right? Pitcher X gets a few more groundballs, walks more batters though, but balances it out by striking out more batters. However, Pitcher X has a 5.04 ERA and a .336 BABIP while Cahill has a 2.93 ERA and a .224 BABIP. What’s with the discrepancy in ERA and BABIP even though they’re basically the same pitcher?

Pitcher X is Justin Masterson of the Cleveland Indians and he pitches behind the worst defense in the league. The Indians defense has been worth roughly 48 runs below average this season. Cahill, of course, pitches in front of the second best defense in the league, roughly 43 runs above average. Defense matters. A lot.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Sep 7, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

What I meant was that his game plans might shift

He wouldn’t necessarily pitch the same sequences to batters. Or he might. I have no clue.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If we're talking D

we should do away with the E in ERA.
Go pure R/9.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But then why have the A's pitchers been above average this year?

It’s certainly not all chance – LSS.
And even with the (mostly) same defense behind them, different A’s pitchers have had noticeably different seasons.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The 2009 defense had Kennedy, Cabrera and Giambi instead

of Kouzmanoff, Pennington and Barton. That’s a pretty big difference.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not one of those guys played a full season

Giambi played 1/3 of the season at 1st, and cabrera played about 2/3s at short so I guess between them it’s a full player…

by Sacred#24 on Sep 7, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, it's amazing how much damage they did

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Between Gio, Cahill, and Vin

Their ERA is like 2 points lower this year…

by Sacred#24 on Sep 7, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Any comparative metrics re longevity? Health?

I’m guessing that high K guys have more injuries and/or shorter careers than P2C guys. That may be impossible to measure effectively, given all the other variables present, but if true, it might argue for a low-budget team to seek P2C starters (cheaper) and good infield defense (also cheaper).

Now, about the outfield offense…

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 7, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why would you guess that high K guys have shorter careers when most of the

pitchers on the top all time IP list are high K guys?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I said it was a guess...

… and it’s based, not unreasonably, I think, on the relative strain on the arm of strikeout pitches — high-octane gas, wicked curves, etc.

And I am dispassionately seeking evidence. Yours is an interesting data point, although something that compared the high-IP guys to the total K or P2C guys seems like it might be even better.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 7, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's a different story

Bill James pointed out a long time ago that pitchers with the best fastballs, who are usually the highest K guys, can lose a couple of feet off their fastballs as they age and still maintain their quality, whereas pitchers with slower fastballs (Barry Zito, I’m looking at you) will lose effectiveness earlier and will usually, unless they’re lucky in their contracts (Barry Zito, I’m looking at you) fade out faster.

I don’t think you can make a conclusion one way or other regarding injury rates.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

So he's saying the high K guys have longer careers?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah...

If they’re healthy.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

At least that's what it looked like when I read the article years ago

I’m assuming a correlation between fastball speed and K rates.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It fits with the career IP list.

I still think Zito can be Jamie Moyer though and get 300 wins.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You mean because most people have never heard of him?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I meant widely accepted in the sabermetric community

There was recently a discussion about this (or something similar) on the Book blog.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Sep 7, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Here's what I've never understood...

If your second point is correct, then why are so many sabre-types so blase when a batter strike outs?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 7, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Batters and pitchers aren't the same thing.

I know, it’s counter intuitive, but one of the best predictors of future success for a pitcher is strikeouts. But batters? Batters can put up great numbers year after year with a lot of them.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wasn't clear

I agree that very few bad things can happen to a pitcher if he strikes the batter out and in that regard I agree that K’s are the best tool we currently have to try and predict future success from the pitcher in question.

However, since even the very best hitters fail roughly 70% of the time shouldn’t greater emphasis be placed on the batter’s ability to limit the pitcher’s… I don’t know… ratio of success? If a weak ground ball has a 30% chance of becoming a hit then it stands to reason that that same ground ball has a greater than 30% chance of advancing a base runner or even scoring a run; two outcomes which almost never happen in association with a strike out.

I realize that the standard counter-argument to my line of questioning is the old… “if the batter changes his approach to prevent the K he’s reducing his chance to get a hit or even better, an extra-base hit.” Can we really prove that though? Do we have the numbers… backed with the documented intent of the batter… to give that argument legitimacy? Because without that data aren’t we just assuming that big strike out numbers are simply a buy-product of great numbers when the reality could be an independent factor? (I hop I phrased that clearly.)

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 7, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I should rephrase another point

I agree K’s are important for a pitcher and the current metrics all place a high emphasis on K/9 rates but, for me, I’ve always felt that the single most important factor in determining how good a pitcher is lies in his ability to avoid giving up the walk. Free passes kill.

As for Cahill’s tRA/FIP/xFIP/whatever… I feel he is at a disadvantage when judged by those metrics because his game plan is based on pitching to contact. What kind of K numbers could he produce if he went for the strike out more often? When talking about how Cahill has actually pitched I don’t believe that a predictive metric like FIP has any value. (You want to talk about what we can expect from him next year, sure, bring up FIP. i’m not denying it’s usefullness in that arena.)

But since we know WE KNOW that our defensive metrics are limited in their accuracy and are lacking critical Hit/fx data it is difficult to seperate where Cahill’s Skill/Luck/Team defense stops and where the rest kicks in. What we do have in black and white are the actual results of the games he has pitched. Based on those results I don’t see how anyone can be disappointed in his performance in 2010. Especially since at the end of last year there were so many people down on Cahill and most would have bet that he’d never approach his 2010 numbers. I can’t imagine there were too many people who expected this performance.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Sep 7, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's not just FIP that's bearish on the A's staff.

1- The starting pitching is really, really good , but its not the 3-something ERA elite staff that ERA makes it out to be. It’s still a really good staff, 1-5, but its not “the 5 aces,” or “the 4 aces”

2- The bullpen has NOT been good at all. That’s more of the dissappointment than the offense, IMO.

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 7, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Bullpen was a disappointment for the first half of the season.

But Wuertz has regained form, Zig looks better, Blevins looks better, Henry looks better, even Bailey looks a little better than he did early on.

It’s not an excuse, of course. The pen lost us some games without a doubt, though often aided by Geren’s mismanagement. But they’ve made a lot of progress, and if they can maintain that progress going into 2011, we’ll have some pretty strong pitching on our side.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

According to Baseball Reference, Oakland has played almost neutral this year.

Is there something wrong with their PF calculations?

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Sep 7, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Most likely that's the Pitching/Batting factors.

They also list three-year and one-year calculations. The 99/99 looks like the one-year. Three-year is 98/98.

by LoneStranger on Sep 7, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I guess I'm confused by how batting/pitching factors are...different

If a place is bat for batting, isn’t it automatically good for pitching? I don’t see the need for the two numbers.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Sep 7, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Eh, I dunno

I think Gio’s made promising progress – the K’s are down, yeah, but he didn’t even have a shot at an ML career if he didn’t get those walks to a more acceptable level, which he’s kinda sorta doing. I think Anderson’s as rock solid as he’s ever been (well, at least with every start he makes that gets him further and further away from his injury hiccups.) Braden’s not this good, but he’s good because he doesn’t walk anybody. Mazzaro’s sorta poopy but he’s never really looked like much.

And then there’s Cahill, who’s pretty goofy in his own right, but, I would agree, it’s pretty disappointing he hasn’t made more sustainable positive development.

The rest are only disappointing if you believed in the first place they were as good as most people believe they are now.

the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy

by walk off bunt on Sep 7, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

wow - tough crowd

Cahill, at 22, has 15 wins with a totally crap offense. The dude is doing something right. I know wins is out of favor as a metric – but holy crap, look at that offense! He must be freaking Houdini if he isn’t a good pitcher.

by boilerdan on Sep 7, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Defeatist crap?

Aren’t you the same guy who wrote this just two weeks ago?

They already aborted the rebuilding process midway through so at this point the choices are to retry it, or to fail…

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 7, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

PT, please explain to me how to program my DVR to record the whole game,

not just three hours of it and not the last five minutes. I just don’t understand.

Peter Gammons ran over his puppy. But that wasn’t the worst part. He then proceeded to back over it too. Then rolled forward again (#3), rolled down the window and said, "What are you going to do about it, kid? I’m Peter F**king Gammons, b**ch." Then drove away. -d to the moas

by Leopold Bloom on Sep 7, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

select "recording options"

select “begin/end”
scroll down on menu to “Record the whole damn game dammit”

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Sep 7, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not certain PT always drinks beer...

… but when he does, he prefers

Stay contrarian, my friend.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 7, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not if you had very high expectations

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You disagree with the great defense?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think the pitching has been great

and I really don’t care what Fip or tRA says

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So the defense sucks?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just stop

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But I want somebody to suck

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

call me

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

(mulls offer)

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You people are just a bunch of darned dirty pervs.

I would flag every comment in this post, except that it would be you same bunch of darned dirty pervs reading the flags and judging me the fool.

So, I think I’m gonna rec every comment in this post, instead.

That’ll teach you swine!

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Sep 7, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Well how YOU doin

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

REC'D!

Serves you moral degenerates right!

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Sep 7, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

m'lady.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 7, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

needs subject line

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It does?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

How will anyone know what the subject of it is?

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Howsabout:

“Obvious pop-cultural reference below.”

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 7, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

tooky!

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Recced

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Sep 7, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You're great,

because you’re either for me or against me (I don’t know which, and frankly, I don’t care).

Either way, it’s reassuring to know you’re not one of those stuck in the mediocre middle.

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Sep 7, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

what about learning to pitch to your defense?

Isn’t that a skill a smart pitcher would pick up? would you count that as part of the young staff’s progress this year?

by asfansince1989 on Sep 7, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

How do you pitch such that the hitter hits it at a defender?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

not at defender

but velocity off bat lower, so better chance of defender cutting it off.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

exactly

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

They would if they could

the hypothesized ability to pitch to defense may not be possible for every pitcher.
Like asking Gio to throw Harden’s changeup.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

How do you throw a pitch (other than cutter or knuckleball) to make

velocity off bat less without allowing more HR?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

don't ask me

I’m not the pitching coach!

But seriously, we’re trying to see if straw can be spun into gold. Looks like Cahill is doing it, and nobody knows why. We will have to see it repeats.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Effective use of changing speeds

Mixing locations. Getting the ball in on the hands of the batter. Keeping the batter off balance. Keeping the batter guessing at what you’re throwing, etc. etc. etc. Just because there’s no good measure for it, doesn’t mean it’s not possible. It’s fun and easier to play when you have statistical numbers for things, but some times and some things they just don’t exist to defend, just like they don’t really exist to disprove they exist.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Sep 7, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

well said mate......

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

dunno

might be control, might be luck, might be ‘hitter off balance’ or otherwise fooled by pitch.

Ziggy kept folks fooled for the first 40+ innings, right?
Then folks got better at hitting him.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The cutter is supposed to do this. We shall see.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

And this is why we've blown on the road

But, the fact remains, that A’s pitchers throw 81 games at the Coli. FIP is cool to use in comparison to other pitchers, and yes, they haven’t been as good as advertised by that measure. But it doesn’t mean they haven’t had good results at the Coli.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Sep 7, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The team has had good results.

Who gets the credit for those is what FIP and tRA try to answer. They say it’s the defense and park.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fair, I'm just saying that as long as they're A's pitchers

and we don’t go back to megasuck defense, this is all academic. Pitchers who have decent but not great stuff are going to do fine in the Coli.

A little OT: this is why I favor a neutral or hitter-friendly new stadium. It’s hard to know what you have pitching-wise when they’re helped out by the park so much.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Sep 7, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

OTOH you probably increase innings per pitcher in a pitcher's park.

You don’t have to use your 15th best guy as much.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Actually, you make a great point

Maybe the A’s pitchers are “overrated,” but they’ll continue to be overrated as long as they’re pitching in that park and with a good defense behind them. When they stop being overrated (Free agency/trades), well, they’re not really a concern of the A’s anymore so who cares?

Of course, if the A’s get a new park soon (hahahaha!) we might all be in for a rude awakening.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Sep 7, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is key.

Pitchers get overvalued anyway, the A’s do a good job of bringing up young pitchers, and a pitchers’ park inflates numbers. Why would you NOT build a pitchers’ park? You inflate the value of your young talent and you trade it away for a big haul and steal your way into contention. On top of that, you play to your organization’s one undeniable strength.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

15 years from now, pitching may not be an organizational strength

The point is that you want the talent level of your players to be as obvious as possible. This helps your team to know how talented the players are. It also helps other teams evaluate what you have for potential trades, and helps you better predict the performance of players you may acquire via trade.

Right now we have this sort of schizophrenic team: great at home terrible on the road. Part of it I imagine is the false sense of security they get pitching at the Coli. You can get away with some hanging sliders here but do it somewhere else and it’s 15 rows back. It makes them not learn how to pitch effectively.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Sep 7, 2010 3:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Just look at how much money Zito got from the Giants.

People believe the BS when it comes to Oakland pitchers. Pitching here increases their value by a lot. And my guess is, pitching is always going to be our organization’s stronger suit, especially if we intentionally build the organization in that direction.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But it doesn't matter

A team gears itself toward the strength of its ballpark. The Yankees look for hitters who’ll love the short porch; Boston generally goes for the kinds of hitters and pitchers that will do well, or have done well, in Fenway.

by richwol1 on Sep 7, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think this really happens.

I find it hard to imagine, for example, Boston passing on the more talented player in order to sign a right handed hitter that will benefit from the Monster. If there were no other teams vying for their services, do you think it’s permissible for them to sign Werth over Crawford because Werth would benefit more by playing in Fenway?

I don’t think the Yankees are doing so well because they put together a team that is well suited for Yankee Stadium, I think they are succeeding because they put together a really damn good team.

by NateHST on Sep 7, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You are really doing your level best to get me as pissed-off at you as possible lately, aren't you?

Whatever. I’m not rising to the bait.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 7, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He's not holding a debate, he's just being a gratuitous ass towards me

Not even close to what I was talking about in that post.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 8, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

My fault

I had assumed that since that you stayed silent during DFA’s posts, that you agreed with his methodology while in discussions. Bad assumptions on my part. Again, sorry. I am curious as to why you didn’t answer two or three of the other comments that were posted — the ones by walkoffbunt, Jeepers, and lenscrafters for example.

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm assuming this is partly exaggeration for effect

and partly to be provocative (I don’t mean that in a negative way)? Sure, the pitchers have outstripped their advanced metrics, and the hitters have sucked exactly as much as could be expected (maybe even a little less, or perhaps other teams like the Orioles and Mariners sucked beyond belief, helping them relative to league average). That makes the former “disappointing” and the latter “performing to expectations.” So in a literal sense, you’re right.

In a realistic sense, nothing could be further from the truth. Our starting pitchers are 22, 22, 23, 24, and 27 years old, and all of them showed significant growth in comparison to what they did last year, Anderson’s injuries excepted. The bullpen hasn’t performed to expectations, but if we’re all of the belief that bullpen arms are fungible, year-to-year fluctuations in performance are to be expected.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

By tRAr -- where they regress all batted balls

Cahill: 2009 – 5.09, 2010 – 5.02
Braden: 2009 – 4.77, 2010 – 4.48
Gonzalez: 2009 – 4.94, 2010 – 4.76
Anderson: 2009 – 4.73, 2010 – 4.43
Mazzaro: 2009 – 4.95, 2010 – 4.92

It looks to me like Braden and Gio showed significant growth, Cahill and Mazzaro stayed the same and got more help from the defense, and Anderson got hurt.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, the numbers on the right are all lower than the ones on the left :-).

That’s categorical improvement. I think we’re getting a little too buried in the details if we look at them just that way, though. Cahill’s gotten enormously better results, and it’s not all luck (witness the marked improvement in K/9 and HR allowed). Mazzaro is allowing a lot fewer hits (2.5 per 9 IP), and though he hasn’t improved any with walks or Ks (and has actually gotten worse at giving up bombs), at least it’s something.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The defense has improved a lot, by swapping out Kennedy, Giambi and Cabrera with

Pennington, Barton and Kouzmanoff. Cahill was also unlucky on HR/FB in the first half of 2009 — something like 15%. His luck normalized in the second half and this year.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's true, I suppose.

Though since it’s frequently said here that you need an enormous sample of defensive data to quantify that contribution accurately, I don’t think we’re going crazy by attributing the results to growth in very young players.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You need an enormous sample of defensive data to tell a good defender from a

bad one. You don’t need that to know that the A’s BABIP against them was .317 in 2009 and .285 in 2010

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But you can't just attribute BABIP to defense, either.

Especially on a team with an outlier freak like Cahill throwing so many innings.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

How is Trevor an outlier freak?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Extreme ground ball pitcher.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He's not that extreme.

He’s fifth in GB% among all pitchers this year. And those four other pitchers ahead of him? Three of the four have BABIPs around .300. Hell, one has a .336.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

An extreme groundball pitcher usually has average or higher than average BABIPs, because groundballs are more likely to go for hits than other batted balls.

For example, the best groundball pitchers of this decade (Lowe, Webb, Hudson) all have career BABIPs around .300 or above.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Sep 7, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Makes sense.

Though unless I’m looking the wrong place, Hudson’s at .284, Webb’s at .291, and Lowe’s at .296 :-). One thing I noticed a while back in looking at a few sinkerballers is that the delta between their BAA and BABIP is smaller than a normal pitcher, but that could just be because I wasn’t looking at enough of them.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It makes sense to me that a groundballer's BAA would

be closer to his BABIP than a normal pitcher because he’d give up fewer HR. It’s hard to hit ground HR.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe there's a distinction between being a good sinkerballer

and just being a sinkerballer? Because if what you just assumed is true, a sinkerballer with a BAA identical to a non-sinkerballer will have a lower BABIP.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Two extreme pitchers:

Sinky — 100% GB, 28% hits, 0% HR — BAA .280, BABIP .280

Flyby — 100% FB, 21% hits, 10% HR — BAA .210, BABIP .110

Now let’s give Sinky great infielders:

Sinky — .210 BAA, .210 BABIP
Flyby — .210 BAA, .110 BABIP

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, you're right, I was looking at the wrong pitchers.

Fangraphs has it slightly higher than what you listed though (Webb .294, Lowe .299, Hudson .286). But basically, still around .300

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Sep 7, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was looking at Baseball Reference.

I wonder why it would be so different?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No

I mean it literally. The A’s are 23rd in pitcher WAR. That’s just plain bad. A lot of it is the bullpen, which has sucked in a major way, but the rotation is 16th, i.e. not exactly knocking anyone’s socks off.

People have this fanciful notion that just replacing a couple of lineup players with “big bats” will turn this team into a contender. It ain’t so.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 7, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You're more right than wrong.

But I’m not sure why you consider them a disappointment. This year has been a major boon for pitchers and averages have been skewed. Usually, the A’s pitching staff’s FIP of 4.12 would be around top 5 or 6th in the league, but this year, a 4.12 FIP is in the bottom half of the league. I guess they’re a disappointment if you compare them to the rest of the league, but we have yet to know if this year’s averages are the norm going forward or if it’s more of an outlier.

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Sep 7, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

What fucking nonsense

And the subsequent defenses. Does anybody actually watch the game? It’s exactly this sort of crap that gives sabermetrics a bad name.

To say the pitching staff, not the position players, have been the disappointment is to be living in a kind of FIP-induced statistical trance I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No, it's people declaring sabermetrists don't watch the game when really they don't have a damn clue whether or not they do

that give sabermetrists a bad name. If he’s wrong, prove him wrong, his post was his opinion which he’s entitled to, and it wasn’t offensive in the slightest.

A's Fan in Sweden

by travdog6 on Sep 7, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This really isn't about sabermetrics vs "watch the game" at all.

Whether the pitchers are more of a “disappointment” than the hitters is purely a function of what sort of expectations you’re comparing the actual results against.

If you have purely generic expectations of OK hitting and OK pitching, then you will be disappointed by the hitting, because the pitching has been good and the hitting has been bad.

If you read a bunch of preseason predictions saying that the A’s pitching was going to be fantastically awesome and the A’s hitting was going to be atrociously bad, then the pitching is more of a disappointment because the pitching has been only kind of awesome rather than fantastically awesome, and the hitting is actually slightly less atrocious than many thought it would be. I assume the latter is what leads Paul to say the pitching is the real disappointment this season.

But all of this is true regardless of whether those preseason projections are sabermetric or traditional. The only way this has anything to do with stats or sabermetrics is if you assume that stat-heads are more likely to have read and remembered preseason predictions, which I don’t think is a safe assumption.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No, I'm really not talking about preseason predictions

I’m talking about actual performance. I don’t really care much what preseason predictions say.

The run scoring has been bad and the run prevention has been good. That is only tangentially related to the question of which part of the team has done better.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 7, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Touched a nerve?

One thing I always loved about Bill James was that, when he briefly had a radio show, and callers would ask him about a particular player, he would regularly acknowledge that the fan calling might know more because they had actually watched the player all those games. And no, not watched that the player looked good in his uniform or getting off the bus. But that the fan had simply watched the games and would thus know more, given that huge investment of time.

My guess is that anyone writing that it is the pitchers, and not the hitters, that have been disappointing this year probably either hasn’t watched many games, is being too clever by half, or is simply being contrarian for the sake of being so.

It’s an absolutely nonsensical statement, given any realistic expectations. And as for proving him wrong. Uh, do you watch the games? Do you follow the team? It’s pretty self-evident that Braden, Gio, and Cahill are all far better than we could have hoped entering the season, and that Mazzaro has mostly been better than expected. Anderson has been injured, though when healthy he’s done little to disappoint.

As for the hitters: Are you kidding? Who besides Pennington and Barton hasn’t been a disappointment. And Barton has done little to exceed what most were hoping for from him. There still just isn’t much power there. And most of Pennington’s value is on defense.

It’s nonsense because the argument is so clear in favor of the pitchers to anyone actually following the team and watching them play. It’s nonsense if compared to the expectations as expressed on this site for all to see prior to the season.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think it's just that everyone thought the offense would be bad

And it’s been pretty bad. The pitchers’ stats, once adjusted for park and defense, aren’t all that rosy.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Sep 7, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Their ERA's are plenty rosy

As is their maturity. And their innings pitched. And their confidence. And their home runs allowed. And their win totals.

There’s absolutely plenty that’s rosy.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think you had a nerve touched too.

Well not now that I’m out of the country, but before yes, I watched almost every one. Look a baseball season is too much data for one mind to be able to remember flawlessly. I can’t remember a third of the games I watched, or a tenth of the plays in that game.

I’m happy with the pitchers, but the argument that they are lucky to have such shiny ERA’s is a valid one. Other advanced metrics don’t love them, although I’d imagine you aren’t the biggest fan of those. It is entirely possible that they have gotten lucky, and it’s just as possible that they have been that good. I don’t really know. From what I’ve watched, they’ve had a nice combination of luck and skill. And yes, I do watch.

As for hitters: Cust has been better than I expected along with Barton and Pennington. Kouz has done what I expected. Ellis far below what I expected. Same with Zooks, but I think that’s more a product of him being played constantly. And the outfield has done just as well as I expected. So basically the entire offense was what I thought we’d have.

The bullpen has not reached what I expected. Ziegler’s been good of late, and the combo of Breslow/Bailey was dominant for a while. But Wuertz was terrible for a while (although better as of late), Ziegler had a rough patch, and basically no one else was great (that comes to mind at the moment).

A's Fan in Sweden

by travdog6 on Sep 7, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'll keep the faith for now.

But whatever happens, I hope the A’s go one way or another, and I hope they do it soon. If they don’t win it all, I really, really want to see them end up with a protected draft pick. Not always a popular opinion, I know, but it’s how I feel.

A's Fan in Sweden

by travdog6 on Sep 7, 2010 9:09 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I think its possible

We need to make up 3-4 games over the next 14 before facing texas for the final time this season. Not impossible although we have similarly difficult schedules. I think management should make the executive decision to play nothing but day games from here on out, it’s not like people are going to the games anyway.

Drinking so much that you forget your name is like trying to cure cancer, it might not be possible, but you should never stop trying.

by Trojanbrand on Sep 7, 2010 9:36 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Put bats in the stadium

Then the remaining home games will be played during the day :) and Outman will feel at home.

100% Athletics, 100% Baseball. 2009 Athletics, 40% Baseball.

by fruitattack on Sep 7, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like your style

2010 A’s: Guerilla Warfare

Drinking so much that you forget your name is like trying to cure cancer, it might not be possible, but you should never stop trying.

by Trojanbrand on Sep 7, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Let's put it this way.

I’d rather the Athletics have the Rangers win-loss record and they have Oakland’s…even if that meant that the Athletics would be slumping as badly as Texas was at the moment.

While it’s possible, I seriously doubt that it will happen.

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 7, 2010 9:49 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I think we'd have to be within four or five when we play them

And then obviously take at least 3 of 4. I don’t think it’ll happen, but it can’t hurt to hope. It’s better than anything we’ve had the previous three years, at least.

the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy

by walk off bunt on Sep 7, 2010 10:06 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

BARELY KNEW HER!

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Really?

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

We missed you on Sunday.

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I missed all of you!

Especially you Pammy!

<3

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

wtf I was there.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh I missed you 2 Mikey!

I got some new beers for us to try mang!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

woop woop!

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Yaa-eee-yay!..."

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

with a nice bottle of Chianti and fava beans?

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No.

We had some Full Sail though. And jerk chicken.

by LoneStranger on Sep 7, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yummy!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

At this point, it's the "still funny" that's funny.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Seriously...if we get to 4 games back, maybe hope.

Maybe. It’s just nice to not be completely out of the race at this point. And it’d be nice to put some pressure on Texas either way.

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 10:18 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

OT: Braden owns my iPhone too

I misspelled ‘between’ in a text message and it auto-corrected it to braden…

100% Athletics, 100% Baseball. 2009 Athletics, 40% Baseball.

by fruitattack on Sep 7, 2010 10:23 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Sniff-Optimism Lives!

Never give up. Gotta believe always.

by Sniff009 on Sep 7, 2010 10:26 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I love Sniff-Optimism

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I love to sniff glue

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol at sirbed

The def of Sniff-Optimism is the ability to comeback from an unforeseen circumstance that many consider impossible. Being able to believe on the positive side of things no matter how bad they get or how hard the hill is to overcome is the only option.

by Sniff009 on Sep 7, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Boy did you ever!

:)

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

One of my favorites of all time!

Too many one liners to even list here…….I must have seen that movie at least twenty or thirty times!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I doubt it...

The offense just can’t keep up for a stretch run most likely. It’d also be nice that if every time they got close to seriously getting back into the race, they didn’t just start blowing chunks for a week. If the A’s can be within 3 games by the time of the Texas 4 gamer (with two day games, at home) later this month, I’ll allow myself to believe.

Also, the first round series with the Yankees would be embarassing, but at least we’d have a division title to tout to potential free agents!

"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.

by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 7, 2010 10:35 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

It's lucy in the sky and all kinds of apple pie

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 10:43 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Welp

The phrase “long-shot” is probably a gross understatement at this point. Never hurts to hope though, regardless.

"It's never 'just a game' if you're winning" - George Carlin

by bluelightrain84 on Sep 7, 2010 10:50 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

We're cheapskates what are we supposed to do?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I

Got pretty demoralized after the Yankees series. But maybe, just maybe, there’s a flicker of hope for the rest of the season. Here’s to keeping my fingers crossed!! :}

"It's never 'just a game' if you're winning" - George Carlin

by bluelightrain84 on Sep 7, 2010 10:58 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

"It's never 'just a game' if you're winning" - George Carlin

by bluelightrain84 on Sep 7, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why send down Mazarro?

He’s been walking too many people, but he’s been decent, except for on Sunday. This is really gonna hurt the guy’s confidence. And for what?

Trevor, Gio, and Braden also all struggled at the big league level before they figured it out. This reminds me of the Jack Cust demotion — not considering the psyche of these guys. Sheesh, everyone has slumps in MLB!

by SteveMcPhatty on Sep 7, 2010 11:17 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

It really is strange. He must have made someone angry.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe he friended Travis Buck on Facebook?

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He wasn't getting better and had been sliding for a bit

And the A’s management sees a chance to take the division, so they’re giving him a couple of unimportant starts to work things out while giving their MLB team a slightly better (maybe) shot at the division.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.

If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.

by DMOAS on Sep 7, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Anyone do any math on his service time?

He had very little of it coming into the year (0.125); I wonder if doing this keeps him from getting to one full year by the end of the season.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think that's true. He can still be a solid MLB pitcher

But I agree that this has nothing to do with manipulating his service time.

"Everybody in the building is standing except for people in a wheelchair." - Doug Woog

"Coach, if you need one yard, I'll get you three yards. If you need five yards, I'll get you three yards." - Leroy Hoard

by Where's My Burrito? on Sep 7, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Your monicker is making me hungry

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

And by its very nature

will continue to do so. It’s like the lost burrito of Atlantis.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Sep 7, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's a good sigline.
It’s like the lost burrito of Atlantis.

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good call

"Everybody in the building is standing except for people in a wheelchair." - Doug Woog

"It’s like the lost burrito of Atlantis." - jeepers

by Where's My Burrito? on Sep 7, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

anytime

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I didn't look up exact dates of recall/demotion, but first pitched on May 4, and last on Sept 5.

That’s about 125 days. So he’s at ~ 250 (172 is a full season). Saving another 25 or so doesn’t seem to do very much of anything. It doesn’t probably keep him from Super Two status a year from now since he most likely would not have gotten there anyway (assuming a full season in the Majors next year).

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Sep 7, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He's been lousy

That’s one reason. Do you feel confident at all when he’s starting? Exactly. That’s how the A’s front office has been feeling too.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Come back and win the AL West or not

It’s great for me to care a little longer about the A’s season in September with all the other things going on.

The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast

by Hit4TheCycle on Sep 7, 2010 11:55 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Are there other things going on?

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No need to obsess over it. We just need to accept it.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You sir are the only moral person here in this morass of sin

While the others around here dream of each others’ privates, or of strapping young junior-college types down to dental chairs with Segufix and showing them their catheter collections, you’re dreaming of Filial Interment Piety, which of course, is the concept of practicing the utmost respect for the gravesites of your dead ancestors. That’s probably where you got that darned infection, manicuring the bonsai trees outside the door of your great grandmother’s crypt. Well, buddy, she always told you not to touch her damn trees. You should have hired pros. Besides, it stimulates the economy.

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Sep 7, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what I get for being a cheap bastard

of course she also told me to always drink two shots of whiskey every morning….pfft…stupid Grandma…we all know you start your day with 4 shots of booze.

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Booze? Maybe I misjudged you?

Maybe you are one of those darned filthy heathens… with your… your… motorcars, and your slick Chinese kitchen utensils…

(points index & middle fingers at my eyes, then at your eyes)

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Sep 7, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey I'm as sober as a judge

as long as that judge is a massive drunk.

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Whoa, back over 3%!

I just checked the BP playoff odds and the A’s are back up to 3.19%.

I was away all weekend, so I haven’t been keeping up. I noticed that the A’s won three of four. Did the Rangers lose some too? They must have.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 12:44 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Don't even think that.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So Hamilton and Lee mean nothing to the Rangers?

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Cool.

Though the BP calculation wouldn’t be paying attention to what players are out.

So those two guys are injured and out for … how long?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

They're day to day

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Does that mean the same thing in Texas

that it means in Oakland?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Somehow I doubt it.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Although Nelson Cruz and Ian Kinsler remain less than 100%

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Actually, in this case, it might.

Hamilton sounds very pessimistic about returning, which means we might well see the ol’ retroactive DL make an appearance. And Lee has missed two straight starts and he’s getting shots in his back.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ya, as I understand it
Hamilton said he felt like he was in a car accident, his ribs hurt that bad!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Now’s our chance!

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It would really be something if they did pull it off, eh?

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Stop with the hope!!

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wait!

Those were my shorts!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fortunately

I have started to mysteriously grow in reverse in my elder years….

;90

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

the fact that the A’s are still in the race just shows how weak this division is

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

And I, for one, am happy that it works that way.

And not just for the A’s benefit. The only realigning I would do is by market size or payroll size. Separate divisions and leagues are a time-honored tradition. When I hear people (and I’m not saying that you or TBRM are such people) say that the postseason should just be the top four teams from each league, that sounds like an argument whose logical conclusion is that there shouldn’t even be a World Series, just a best team in baseball.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I like divisions, but

I’m all for getting rid of the World Series.

I’m purist about anti-interleague. I’d like to see the two leagues be completely separate, with separate television contracts, separate revenue sharing, separate player collective bargaining agreements, etc, too.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Sep 7, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well that's different

If there was no longer a World Series I would no longer follow baseball.

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Why on earth would you have two unrelated leagues in one country?

I’m unaware of a single example of such an arrangement in a single major sport in any country in the world. And there are like 180 countries with soccer leagues…

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 7, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It would certainly require that the two leagues compete for fans

And in the end, I think this would be in the fans’ best interest. Intriguing idea.

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 8, 2010 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Texas is actually second-worst about using the retroactive-disabled-list "trick"

… of course, even they only use it like half as much as Oakland does.

Of course, in September, the DL isn’t really an issue.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 7, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not going to happen

But it is September and we are talking about it so it isn’t all bad. What worries me is that this will give Beane the idea we are only one offensive player away for next year. We are one offensive player away from .500 baseball and nothing more. We are 3 offensive players away – three players who can hit better than anyone we currently have.

Baja been here

by bajablue on Sep 7, 2010 12:59 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I question whether the pitchers can repeat

what they did this year so just to maintain a .500 team next year we would need better hitting. I think, IMHO, that only Barton has shown growth at the plate. With the rest, what we see is what we get. So, one more offensive player would keep us where we are.

Baja been here

by bajablue on Sep 7, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hmmm...that's possible....and discouraging.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Of course anything can happen

but I’m not gonna get my hopes up until the A’s put themselves into position by getting to at least 3-4 games back before squaring up against Texas.

They have been teasing us all year long and I still have serious doubts about the offense putting enough runs on the board against the better teams left on the schedule. If we sweep Seattle and then take at least 2 out of three against the Sux, then perhaps we could be in business. One day at a time, one game at a time is how I’d like to look at it but at this point there are only 25 games left and one must project ahea to figure out what kind of small chance the A’s really have.

And as a side note, I watched the highlights of the game on Saturday against the Angels and I couldn’t believe the tantrums that Jared Weaver was showing openly on his dugout…really embarrassing and just bush league. I don’t think see him in an Angels uniform next year. A much as I don’t like Scioscia I respect his game managing and I just don’t see how he could put up with that kind of shit from one of his players.

Just a thought….go A’s!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Sep 7, 2010 2:15 PM PDT reply actions  

MORE OUTFIELDERS!!!

#Athletics select Jeremy Hermida from Triple-A Sacramento.

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 2:28 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

finally

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This, I like.

Anything to get Carson out of there.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep...although he did have a nice game yesterday

but I want to see Hermida play…some robot on AN told me he might have a high upside.

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Don't believe him.

See: Fox, Jake.

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fox, Jake did have a high upside. Still does.

But upside doesn’t mean “he’s good”.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, you NEVER said he was good.

…wait.

just kidding. YAY HERMIDA

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

:D

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I get kind of tired of the term "upside."

I mean, everyone has a high upside. There is a mathematical possibility that the sun and Jupiter could simultaneously switch places, and there is a possibility that Jake Fox could wake up as Babe Ruth tomorrow, but it isn’t really going to happen. His swing is disgusting and slow, and he pulls his head like a mo’facky.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Speaking of pulling your head, Kurt Suzuki's swing just gets uglier every time I see it.

Is that guy even watching the pitcher anymore? It’s like he’s looking somewhere else before the swing even starts.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It definitely has the potential to get misused.

Think of it as a 90%ile best case scenario. Far more likely that he’ll be mediocre, but still, the potential’s there.

by danmerqury on Sep 7, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'd love to see the numbers of players drafted in the first 3 rounds of the draft

in the last 20 years and see how many turned out to be good major league players.

I’d still rather take a high upside player and see if you can strike gold rather than someone who has a limited amount of talent but may be a safer bet.

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I think this is part of why teams like the Pirates have been terrible for a decade and a half

I don’t like the idea of small market teams risking precious draft picks on boom or bust guys. I’d much rather they do that with IFAs. There the only loss is money (as opposed to a pick and money).

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Sep 7, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Pittsburgh is a small market?

I think the owners are just evil.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Eh, everyone doesn't have a high upside

I do not have the same upside as Albert Pujols. I don’t. There is a 0% chance that I could hit hundreds of homers in the majors. But I’m not a major leaguer, so maybe that’s a bad example.

So how about this: There’s a 0% chance (or maybe it’s like .000001%) that, say, Tolleson will have an Albert Pujols career (or even one Pujols season). That makes his upside significantly less than Pujols’.

www.zekeishungry.com

by thejd44 on Sep 7, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

HERO HERMIDA OPS'S 1400 IN GREEN&GOLD TO LEAD OAKLAND TO A 22-3 RECORD TO END SEASON AND STORM INTO THE PLAYOFFS!

Its like Im Nostradamus over here!

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Sep 7, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That would be a bummer.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

unless we DL someone.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

(coughs) Gabe Gross

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This should be in response to mikev's post.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I fixed it

But seriously,folks....

by sirbed on Sep 7, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

SAD NEWS OUT OF OAKLAND AS MATT CASRON GETS A BOWLING BALL DROPPED ON HIS ANKLE AND WILL MISS THE PLAYOFFS. HIS REPLACEMENT? HERMIDA.

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Sep 7, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Trajedi strikes.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

BOWLING BALL DROPPED BY MASKED FAN WEARING A MASK WITH "AN" ON IT.

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Sep 7, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

DO YOU REMEMBER D'ANGELO JIMENEZ?

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Sep 7, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

blah

MARK KIGER FTW!!!

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

jinx.

Seriously. Dude is Moonlight fuckin Graham in the flesh.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Mark Kiger.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

i believe so

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

No. He wasn't in the organization on that date.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Sep 7, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

too much caffeine today?

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

MY CAPS LOCK KNOWS NO BOUNDS

AND MAKES EVERYTHING LOOK MORE NEWS HEADLINE-Y.

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Sep 7, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

shoes...don't do it!

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Every comment has a "rec" on this page.

I find this amazing.

"You're all like big fat failure turtles." - Edge

by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 7, 2010 2:54 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Wow, she was serious

that’s awesome.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Sep 7, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

They may look like REC's to you, but they're flags to me.

They’re REC Flags.

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Sep 7, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

whatever floats your boat.

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

#1 Reason Why We should believe...

I know that many A’s fans are stat heads, so here is the Pythagorean W-L Record

Texas Rangers (75-62)
Scored 660 runs, Allowed 588 runs. Pythagorean W-L: 76-61

Oakland Athletics (68-69)
Scored 555 runs, Allowed 528 runs. Pythagorean W-L: 72-65

Courtesy of baseball-reference.com

by Sniff009 on Sep 7, 2010 3:04 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

We could probably come up with 10 easily,

but there have to be at least four that one could safely say the A’s would have won had it not been for Bobo’s screwups.

"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 7, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

actually, that lack of offense is already factored into the Pythag

playing below the ‘expected’ wins means that a team won fewer than a neutral ‘luck / magic sauce’ team would have.
Without scoring any additional runs, that is.

ie, more blowout wins than normal, more close losses than normal. Fewer blowout losses
And since A’s pitchers haven’t had many blowout losses, they seem to be playing below their expected pthag- wins.

by MobiusKlein on Sep 7, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

UPDATE: Toronto leads 4-2 over Texas

Feldman is out of the game, giving up a two-out double with two men on.

Then he gave the IBB to Vernon Wells, and allowed Bautisa to steal 3rd during the IBB.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:28 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Hallelujah!

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 7, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

New pitcher, Kirkman, walks his first batter

bases loaded with two outs for the BlueJays.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

then he struck out Aaron Hill

not a surprise.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

you just have this feeling we are going to fall just short

thanks to losing games where we had replacement level OFers and below RL DH’s.

THANKS BEANE.

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Sep 7, 2010 5:33 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

this week will show us how far we'll get

I doubt we’ll just miss by one. We’ll either reel off an impressive string of victories or get too far out and call it a season.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Sep 7, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, this is the team

We’re at home, they’re on the road, our schedule is softer. Love to make up 2-3 games in the over the course of those two series.

And everything rides, of course, on our beating the Rangers at least 3 of 4.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

"the time"

This is the time.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

What a difference had we not lost the Nelson Cruz homer game

That one game. Oh for one more hit in the 9th or 10th inning of that game.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree, that was among the most aggravating of losses

In my biased opinion (heheh) there are about four games we should not have won, and about ten games we should have won. Therefore, net six.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I can totally see us finishing 3 games out.

and everyone being pissed about it because our FO never gave a shit about this year and they should have.

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Sep 7, 2010 5:41 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

It's not as if the FO can just buy more sand and gravel

You actually have to get players that matter. And those players are held by their current teams (and not traded) for a reason.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The poll was structured as half empty or half full

with that choice, I had no choice to say “No Way”, i.e. half empty,

If you had five boxes: 0 to 20%, 20% to 40% etc.; about 90% of AN would have ticked 0 to 20%. For me there is less than a 5% chance, but that is a chance.

Another observation; the Rangers lineup even with their injuries is much more dangerous than the A’s with the A’s combination of AAA, AAAA and low level major players manning all positions except catcher: where I would put Suzuki in the uppper 1/3 of mlb catchers.

by robertmelvin on Sep 7, 2010 5:43 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

UPDATE: Jays now lead Rangers, 5-2

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:47 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, we can win this thing.

Then maybe that prick Lew Wolff will sell the A’s to Reggie Jackson and he’ll keep the team in Oakland. Yes, I’m an optimist.

by jdub69 on Sep 7, 2010 5:47 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Jackson might move the Athletics to New York City!

Check Jackson’s uni in the HoF. He’s NYC through and through now.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, ...New Jersey A's!!

Personally, I believe the New York area could support four teams, easy. That would divide up the television money, and payrolls for NY area teams would be more in line with the rest of the league.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly.

Reggie sold some cars in a big auction in Monterrey, CA, only a couple hours from Oakland. Guess what team hat he wore? I’ll give you a hint. Not the Oakland A’s.

by LoneStranger on Sep 7, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

He would leave the Yanks in a second for ownership of the A's.

When he went into the hall years ago he still had great hatred towards the A’s owner Finley and the Yanks always treated him well – hiring him right after his retirement, etc. Jackson is simply employed by the Yanks though. He wanted to buy the A’s prior to this current ownership team and wanted to keep them in Oakland.

by jdub69 on Sep 7, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tonight:

Davis CF, Barton 1B, Suzuki C, Cust DH, Ellis 2B, Larish LF, Hermida RF, Tolleson 3B, Pennington SS

by robertmelvin on Sep 7, 2010 5:58 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Is that the posted lineup??

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I hate Davis in the leadoff spot.

When managers collectively figure out that their shitty OBP speedsters don’t belong in the leadoff spot, or in the lineup FFS, things will get much better.

Needs moar dingerz.

by Blicks on Sep 7, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rangers imitating the Athletics

two on, no one out….so, GIDP!!

Still remains, 5-2 Toronto in the 7th.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 5:58 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

um, jinx...

make that 5-3…two out RBI

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

now, 6-3 Toronto over Texas

Vernon Wells hit his second HR in the game.

Brett Wallace hit his first ML HR.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Guess who hit a 3-run HR in his first at bat tonight

but it was at home so it was a fly ball out everywhere else right

Chris Carter is the next Hank Aaron right?

by streetisclosedin08 on Sep 7, 2010 6:00 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

the one that got away…

by TBRMKane on Sep 7, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, why doesn't everyone batting in Colorado

up-and-down both lineups, hit fly balls for home runs??

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Couldn't start anywhere else

Would be league-average anywhere else. Numbers are all a park-induced mirage. Strikes out too much. Can’t walk. Home average. Road average.

Did I cover all the head-in-the-sand points yet?

The guy is terrific and we have nothing to really show for him so far. Horrible, horrible trade.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, this, and he spits on stray puppies

That ought to make us all feel better

I'm here to talk about Don

by OptimistPrime on Sep 7, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The bastard -- err, Jackal!

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Sep 7, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Can someone please recommend this comment?

As for my opinion in this matter, please see my name.

I'm here to talk about Don

by OptimistPrime on Sep 7, 2010 6:11 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

free mattress with each recc??

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

duh!

I'm here to talk about Don

by OptimistPrime on Sep 7, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

green, baby.

That's pam. "classy enough." -whiteshoes40

by pam5981 on Sep 7, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Texas is toast

Only question is are we good enough to get to 84 wins. That’s the number to tie. 85 wins it outright.

by RLangford on Sep 7, 2010 6:15 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

UPDATE: More BlueJay HRs

Now, 8-3 Toronto over Texas.

I think the Bjays have four home runs in this game.

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 6:16 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Rangers or A's

Totally going to get swamped by these AL East teams. Homer city.

The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast

by Hit4TheCycle on Sep 7, 2010 6:23 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

On the MLB Network it's White Sox and Tigers on WGN

But no Hawk, pretty odd.

The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast

by Hit4TheCycle on Sep 7, 2010 6:24 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Jeremy Hermida looks like Bobby Crosby.

That is all.

There's no business like show business, but there are several businesses like accounting.

by Eddie Cheddar on Sep 7, 2010 6:33 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

GO JAYS... jays 8, rangers 3

bottom of the eighth.

should be 6.5 back by game time

by heartstopper on Sep 7, 2010 6:39 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Yep, all over

furious 9th inning rally, but Texas loses, 8-5, to the Blue Jays.

only 6.5 games back!!

Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.

Beane: They believe it because it's true.

by One won lost won on Sep 7, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we get into a slugfest with TX for the AL West,

I’ll be happy. That in itself would be so unexpected. A huge tease, but jumping up and down fun.

by lynnzgal on Sep 7, 2010 6:46 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

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