What Do We Do About Kurt Suzuki?
by danmerqury on Sep 6, 2010 7:01 AM PDT
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Print.322, .320, .321
Those three numbers are Kurt Suzuki's wOBA every year since his debut season. In other words—he's a paragon of consistency. Even though Kurt has gradually changed his hitting style since his debut (by walking less and hitting for more power), the changes have basically offset each other equally and his production has remained the same in 2007, 2008, and 2009.
So what happened?
He currently has a wOBA of .304, which means he's now merely a hair above average offensively for a catcher, after coming close to being an entire win above the average catcher with the bat for three straight years. And, most troubling of all, his batting approach has completely imploded. This year, a disgustingly large 21.5% of his fly balls have been of the worthless infield popup variety, which leads the majors by leaps and bounds. For comparison, his infield fly ball rate in every season before 2010 was in the high single digits.
Of course, Kurt had to pick 2010 as a slump season, after Billy Beane opened up the pocketbook and handed him $16.25MM over four years, so our options are fairly limited. What should we do? What can we do?
Current Series
3 game series vs Mariners @ Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum
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Seattle Mariners Monday, Sep 6, 2010, 1:05 PM PDT Jason Vargas vs Brett Anderson Sunny. Winds blowing from left to right field at 5-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 75. |
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| Tue 09/07 | 7:05 PM PDT | |
| Wed 09/08 | 7:05 PM PDT | |
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Comments
His throwing sucks now too.
I’d keep him and just give him less playing time, with Powell playing as much as he can. They don’t really have a replacement for him, and I’m not ready to sign Victor Martinez to a long term deal or trade for Dioner Navarro or John Buck.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
How about... don't panic.
There’s nothing that needs to be done.
Kurt has struggled this year but there is no reason to believe that this is the start of an irreversible decline. I’m more than willing to pencil him in as the A’s 2011 Opening Day Catcher… preferably batting 6th or 7th in the line-up.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Sep 6, 2010 7:39 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
This
As A’s-related problems and dilemmas go, what to do about Zooks is pretty far down the list at this point.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Sep 6, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
That he no longer seems interested in taking pitches seems to be a problem
It’s not just that he’s had bad results. He’s a different (worse) hitter before the ball even gets put into play.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Batting 3rd might have something to do with over-anxiousness.
Not to mention his contract negotiations. Or he just had a crappy year.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it's batting in "power positions" that have changed him
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
So bat Kurt 4th?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
And bat 4th?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
So nobody bats 4th?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Barton-Cust at 3-4
Put Cliff at #2.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Terrible idea.
Barton is EXACTLY where he belongs.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
No way
Any spot that makes him bunt less is where he belongs.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Or Billy could just go apoplectic on him while repeating "DON'T BUNT" over and over again
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
He hasn't bunted for a while,
so maybe the A’s have finally figured this one out.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The spot doesn't make him bunt.
Nobody in the 2 spot should ever be bunting anyway.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I shouldn't say EVER. There's probably a time and a place for it.
What I mean is you don’t put the kind of player who should be bunting in the 2 spot
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Ideally,
you don’t put the kind of player who “should” be bunting in your lineup in the first place.
Random sacrifices of a runner to second base make no sense unless the hitter is a pitcher or John McDonald.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Barton should be batting 4th, BS......................
Barton does not distinguish himself power wise or clutch wise for that matter as a 1st baseman. Look at past A’s first basemen and look at 1st basemen in the AL in general and I feel that Barton comes nowhere near the power level that should be provided by an average to good 1st baseman !!!!!
Or better yet, forget about batting order till there are more than 3 hitters on the team.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
i think it was tittle on the radio the other day
qas saying barton third. rajai and crisp 1-2… barton is the most consistent and is more likely to get one of them home if on base
That would be incredibly stupid
Hey, let’s make sure that Barton constantly comes up with no one on and two outs! Seems like an excellent way to maximize a player who generates his offense from walks and singles.
… yeah.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I'm a little down on Suzuki right now but I think grover has it exactly right
bring him back but bat him him at a more appropriate spot like 6 or 7.
But seriously,folks....
First and foremost, let him sit.
We have a very capable backup catcher who plays sparingly. Given rest Suzuki should improve. I don’t think now is the time to trade him, as it’d be a sell low type of deal, but I’m definitely open to trading him once his numbers rebound some and once we have a better idea of how Powell will hold up and what he can provide.
A's Fan in Sweden
the kurt suzuki "problem"
I would say that on the list of problems, this one is way down there. I assume that he is trying too hard after signing a big contract — he would not be the first. What is clear is that 2011 has the potential to be a big year for the A’s, giving the maturation of the young pitching staff. The onus is on management to put together a team that can compete in 2011, before these pitchers go elsewhere. This will involve spending money and making wise selections regarding hitters who can help us. This is really a critical year to take advantage of the good work that has been done in assembling this pitching staff. It is too bad that hitters like Carlos Gonzales, Andre Ethier were sacrificed in this effort, because if a few guys like that were here now, we would be viewed as contenders. But the opportunity now exists to get a few guys like that and contend in 11 and 12.
Get Rasmus
MLB.com mentioned Colby Rasmus may be of interest to the A’s. He is at odds with LaRussa and has asked to be traded. What would we have to give up for him? – probably start with a front line starting pitcher and Carter or Taylor.
Baja been here
If he costs that much, then no.
Send them Suzuki and either Mazzaro or Bailey.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 6, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
We don't have another catcher and they have Molina. We can't lose Suzuki and they don't want him.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
We can absolutely lose Suzuki.
We’re not gonna get worse production from Lando and Donaldson, and they don’t cost nearly as much money.
So work in a team that needs a catcher and makes decisions based purely on subjective observations rather than stats, make it a three-team deal, we get Rasmus, we send away Suzuki and Mazzaro or whatever, the Cardinals get Mazzaro and someone from the third team, the third team gets Suzuki.
Hmmm…team that needs a catcher and is run by someone who doesn’t like stats…the Rangers? How sweet would it be to see the Rangers wasting a multi-million-dollar lineup spot on foul pop after foul pop?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 6, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Donaldson's a major league player, so I'm not in favor of him.
Also I don’t think Kurt would pop up as much in Texas since their park doesn’t have as much foul ground.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
that would be true BUT
then we wouldn’t have had Bradley to be a star at the plate the last time we were in the playoffs. that is the cost of the WIN now philosphy where we attempt to satisfy an immediate need for a future (ethier)cost . bean made a choice…
Fwiw
Saturday I had the opportunity of sitting at the game near a bunch of major league scouts. They were commenting that Suzuki looks exhausted and is probably quite banged ip.
by OaklandSi on Sep 6, 2010 8:10 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I don't understand why he plays so much. It's September already, time to put a few miles on Powell's knees.
Your poem here.
Its because Bob Geren is not good at this managing thing.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I would give Suzuki some major "rest and rehab" time this final month.
Seems like Donaldson is healthy again in Sacramento.
He’s on the 40-man and so I think he should be brought up sometime soon as the 3rd catcher. Let Suzuki catch twice a week and DH once and then split the rest of the week 2-2 between Donaldson and Powell.
By splitting up the receiving pressure, I would then direct Kurt to put in some time with Skaalen and the rest of the coaching stuff breaking down his swing and hitting approach. I personally think he needs to wait longer and take more pitchers. At this point, it just seems that whenever he gets to 2-0 or 2-1 he automatically takes a giant hack at the next pitch, hoping to hit a homerun, which to me results in a lot of infield pop-ups when the pitch is not really hittable.
Have him wait a little longer on the pitch (watch videos of Barton to see how this is done), even out the swing plane to hit more ling drives and use the opposite field.
And for the umpteenth time…don’t bat him 3rd or 4th.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Why would you want anyone but Cust DHing?
He doesnt need a day off, he’s never hurt.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Yes, he's durable and loves Oakland. Clearly not a true Athletic.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
don't say that!
now cust will get hurt, too
This is not little league. The kid who strikes out the most is not the worst player on the team.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Sep 6, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
A question:
In that eighth picture down, doesn’t it look like Mazzaro is throwing a screwball?
by Chilango on Sep 6, 2010 8:59 AM PDT reply actions
Agree with all of the above
1. Starting in April, don’t run him into the ground.
2. Bat him 6th or 7th, where he belongs.
3. Be patient — he’s just having a down year.
Given his sudden throwing problems, and all the pop-ups he’s hitting, I wonder if he’s playing through a bad right shoulder. Just a thought.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OK, so the consensus here is don't bat the dude third.
So, um, why can’t our manager see that? Wait, never mind.
I'm here to talk about the past.
In fairness to Bobo,
I’m really talking about next season — it helps to have someone you SHOULD bat #3 and the A’s currently don’t have that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No, I understood that. But more than likely, #1 will still happen next year. And #2 won't.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Geren is amazing in that he continues to do the
same thing and expects different results. Suzuki was never a #3 hitter, and will never be, but good ol’ Bob can’t see the obvious. I agree with almost all the comments on this thread.
Suzuki plays too much, should not be hitting 3rd, and probably having a down year because of the new contract, and is tired.
Too bad ol" Bob can’t figure this out.
from reading the title and looking at the photo
My first thought was that you were going to suggest throwing baseballs at him.
by rollierollieOxenfree on Sep 6, 2010 9:41 AM PDT reply actions
maybe he should talk trash the rest of the year
so people will throw at him, increasing his OBP
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
A concussion or two would also solve the problem of his playing too much.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
This is not really all that funny to me
We need to change the culture of joking about concussions.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I'unno
I had one once and said some fairly hilarious things. At least, that’s what I’m told.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
The quarterback for my high school football team got as many in his four years as Steve Young did in his NFL career.
Some of those were comedy gold.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 6, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Not in Kansas.
Rub a little dirt on it, walk it off, get back out there.
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 6, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, you're even losing to North Dakota State now.
That’s an FCS school.
"You're all like big fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 6, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
He's allowed to voice his opinion, and I'm allowed to ignore it.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh right
I forgot that the real purpose of AN was to take passive-aggressive, backstabbing pot-shots at people’s character and fill up threads with nonsense.
Carry on then.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Clearly you'd be shocked at what I consider things to joke about then.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Where do we begin?
1. He is not a #3 hitter and not even close. He is a #6 or #7 hitter. By having him as a #3 hitter Geren is making him into a hitter Kurt is not. This is why he is pressing and not taking any walks.
2. Give him more rest and not DH. Geren is famous for over using and not resting his players. A tired player is useless when it comes to hitting.
3. Give him some hitters around him. It is not hard to pitch around him when you have a bunch of 250 hitters backing you up.
First thing you do is, don't sign him to an overly expensive long-term extension
… wait, they already did that.
Sheeeeeeeeeit, partner.
I don’t really believe that players can be “fixed” through outside intervention, so the only solution (such as it is) is playing him less.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Maybe they can't be fixed, but they can be broken, and excessive playing time may have done that.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Also I don't have a problem with the contract. He's easily tradeable, and no less so now.
He was very good in 2009. It’s not like he’s got no talent.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not a particularly huge fan of the new contract to Suzuki either
But it wasn’t technically an extension was it? Didn’t the new contract basically buy out his arbitration years?
You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ
by bakerbeachboy on Sep 6, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
That makes it an extension.
He didn’t actually have a contract for those years.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, ok.
Noted. Thanks for the clarification.
You know you are big-time when people chant your name while you pee. - 67MARQUEZ
by bakerbeachboy on Sep 6, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I realize that you have a hard time accepting baseball players as human beings
And now coaches have no place on a team.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I think most coaches are a waste of money, yes
I’ve been very open about this for a long time. Hitting coaches in particular seem to exist solely for the purpose of being useful scapegoats for teams with bouts of bad BABIP-itis.
No idea what on earth that has to do with the humanness (or nominal lack thereof) of baseball players however.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
So who is a player supposed to talk to when he's struggling?
You almost always treat baseball players more like machines than as people. The mental and emotional health of an athlete can be just as important as the physical.
Having someone… let’s call this person “coach”… that a player can discuss a problem or deficiency with and get an outside-their-own-head perspective is an extremely valuable resource.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Talk to a priest
or a therapist, or an Ouija board for all I care.
Most baseball coaches are just overpaid, lousy sports psychologists. Why not try the real deal?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
You know a lot of priests who can break down a batter's swing?
That can offer tips/suggestions on how to adjust to the way pitchers are going after them?
Because talking to someone who has actual real world experience in a particular field can’t in wany way be a beneficial thing…
Think I’ll stop with the rhetorical approach and just call bullshit on this one PT.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Father Desme is displeased with your shenanigans.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
We've been down this road before
I do not believe it is possible to think your way to hitting better. I know that the traditional-baseball-rah-rah types think I’m full of shit on this, which is fine, because I think they are.
A total overhaul of someone’s swing is one thing since that actually implicates macro-mechanics. These fiddly little “adjustments” that hitting coaches are always talking about are not that. They’re placebos to actually prevent hitters from thinking. Thinking is the enemy of good hitting because it slows down reaction time. Thing is, anything that has the effect of stopping someone from overthinking at-bats will work just as well.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
So in PT-land Suzuki needs to think of a way to not think...
And asking for help to not think is an over-thought process that runs contrary to your thinking.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Maybe
If he’s in a mental funk, then yes, he needs to stop thinking. I think a more intuitive Suzuki might hit more like the 2007 and 2008 versions. However he goes about that is fine by me, even if it involves an Ouija board…
If he’s physically deteriorating, then he just needs to stop playing so damn often.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Be Bob Geren For a Day
I read Athletics Nation almost daily, but do not post. This topic begs for a comment however. I think, based on the posts, it is unanimous that most all the Nation believe Zuks should be batting down in the order, 6th or lower. The problem is we are still on the outskirts of a pennant race and given the roster what other order could Geren throw out there that gives the A’s the best chance to win. Or put another way, who else can bat in the middle of the A’s lineup.
So here is the challenge, you are Geren, construct a better lineup with today’s team (this assumes Kouz back is Ok and he is playing). Here is my idea to get it rolling….
(1) Coco – CF
(2) Raj – LF
(3) Barton – 1B
(4) Kouz – 3B
(5) Cust – DH
(6) Suzuki – CA
(7) Larish – RF
(8) Ellis – 2B
(9) Pennington – SS
Is there a better lineup?
I have this crazy friend who thinks Ellis should bat higher than 8th
Is he crazy?
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
It doesn't answer the question
but I hardly think it matters in this lineup.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
and wouldn't you rather have Cust than Larish in the outfield?
a painful question, I know, but Larish has looked bad out there
the other
I think Larish is worse out there, but that’s just my subjective perspective based on a few games. Larish may be better eventually but right now looks to me like he gets bad reads and does not respond well to the ball off the bat.
it’s between him and Cust, I put Cust in LF, Larish at DH. Although today he’ll be at 3rd, I’m guessing
At least Cust can hit. Larish is AAA filler.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I does sound delicious in a junk food fiber kinda way
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
You don't want one of the worst hitters in the lineup in the 2 hole. Ever.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
rajai needs to learn to
bunt and walk. then he would be more than acceptable
He turns 30 in a few weeks
I think the saying about old dogs is apropos here.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Raj batting 2nd is horrendous.
I’ll take a pot shot at it.
1- CoCo – CF
2- Barton – 1B
3- Cust – DH
4- Larish – LF
5- Suzuki – C
6- Kouz – 3B
7- Ellis – 2B
8- Raj – RF
9- Pennington – SS
(i would put penny up in the order, but Penny is far more likely to get on base than Kouz/Ellis/Raj,)
Needs moar dingerz.
Oh. Wait. We have Hermida now. Forgot this.
1- CoCo
2- Barton
3- Cust
4- Larish
5-Kouz
6-Suzuki
7- Ellis
8-Pennington
9-Hermida
I’m really, really done with Rajai Davis.
Needs moar dingerz.
"Done" or not, he's better than Jeremy Hermida is.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
WTF
Powell isn’t on #Athletics lineup card. We could be looking at a potential roster move.
Traded???
Nevermind
Stay classy, Bob.
Powell was just forgotten on the lineup card, I’m told. He’s on the new one.
Is it wrong at this point to wish Geren was just hit by a bus?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
I don’t drive a bus.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes. But let's not put that in writing.
CRAP!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Today
Crisp CF, Barton 1B, Suzuki C, Cust DH, Ellis 2B, Davis LF, Carson RF, Tolleson 3B, Pennington SS, Anderson P
Just today?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Putting Raj, Pennington and Crisp in order
- however you do it, 8,9,1 or 9,1,2 – should help maximize the A’s greatest offensive strength, namely speed and base stealing threats. I don’t really see how batting Davis 6 or 7 makes best use of him at all.
I'm hoping Outman takes over
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Balderdash
He was plenty consistent. Belt-high, middle of the plate. Almost every time.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Thank God
AAA is where he belongs or on the slegnA or Texas rotation next year.
Well, this is, as usual from you, completely and factually wrong.
It’s not worth looking it up because you’re completely impervious to facts and truth, but Mazzaro and his 95 ERA+ makes him a slightly below average starter.
If Mazzaro should be in AAA, then so should almost half of all starting pitchers in baseball.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I could care less if it's factually wrong
He is not pitching well and gets hammered too often.
He was doing fine for awhile but the last 6 weeks or whatever, he has not. They obviously agree or he would still be here. And that’s all I care about.
It's becoming more and more clear that Bob Geren has quite an influence on roster decisions.
Managers (especially a moron like Geren) should never be allowed to have that influence.
I miss the days when Beane cared enough to micromanage everyone.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I hope Outman
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Latest I heard was that he'd throw a simulated game soon
I can’t imagine he’s ready to pitch yet unless its middle relief, and even that’s a stretch.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Sep 6, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
BOOF!!!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Depth Chart already has Mortensen listed as the #5
http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/team/depth_chart/index.jsp?c_id=oak
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Sep 6, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, apparently Davis is starting in LF and RF
awkward…
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Sep 6, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't get that, but then I don't think he's more than AAA filler
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
He wasn't, but this has been a good year for him.
And he was vaguely impressive during that one start in Oakland. I still like Mazzaro a lot more than Mortensen, but I guess they’re trying to give Mortensen a shot. Perhaps after the AAA playoffs, we’ll move to a six-man rotation.
Mortenson hasn't been impressive at all (Wins aside)
I mean, not impressive enough to think he’s anything other than filler. He has a 4.25 ERA and a 4.81 FIP
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Where are you getting that FIP from?
I’m seeing 4.24, and that despite a somewhat weirdly high HR/FB ratio.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Only Bob Geren would think Mortensen is a better option than Mazzaro
This is just another in a long line of moves that makes it pretty clear that Beane isn’t really making these decisions anymore.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think that Geren thinks that Mortensen is better than Mazzaro.
All this move says is that Beane/Geren feel that Mazzaro needs some time to work on stuff.
What does "work on stuff" even mean?
What bugs me most is that it sends the message that if you throw a couple bad pitches you’re losing your job. You know, unless you’re one of Geren’s favorites and then you can suck for months at a time and never sit.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Work on stuff?
Work on pitching grips. Work on delivery timing. Work on something. It doesn’t matter what, but I’d guess that Curt Young and co. saw something that they could fix or upgrade.
So why isn't Curt Young and co. working with Mazzaro on that stuff? Why is he being sent down instead?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
'Cause if the work needs to be done in game situations...
as in… “Well Vin, you WILL throw X number of change-ups every inning” it would be better to do that in the minors than in the bigs.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Though the playoffs?
That’s the only thing that makes me go “hmmm.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If the A's even think they might have a chance...
Yeah.
Better Sac than Oakland.
The monster at the end of this blog.
But if the A's think they have a chance,
Mazzaro is still a better bet than Mortensen or Bonser.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why not in the bigs instead of Sacramento?
Heck, Sacramento’s games right now mean more than the A’s games. He’s going to have to learn how to throw that changeup to big league hitters anyways. Might as well go through most of those learning pains right now instead of the start of next season.
The only reason this makes sense to some people right now is because everyone’s harboring ill feelings toward Mazzaro after his last two starts. The reality is, he’s a 22 year old with a 4.71 xFIP which is more than fine cause he’s the number 4 starter. Unfortunately, A’s management apparently thinks more like fans who make snap judgments after two starts.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Like I said to Nico...
If the A’s are sniffing a chance to catch Texas (which would explain them going to a 4 man rotation) then they can’t anticipate having consistent innings to give Mazzaro.
Thus the trip to Sac.
It might not even have anything to do with “working on something” and everything to do with wanting him to keep pitching consistently so when the A’s do need a 5th SP he hasn’t been on the bench for two weeks.
The monster at the end of this blog.
If they are indeed going to a 4 man rotation to try to catch Texas (and I'm going to have to consider this decision more stupid than courageous)
and what you say is true:
It might not even have anything to do with "working on something" and everything to do with wanting him to keep pitching consistently so when the A’s do need a 5th SP he hasn’t been on the bench for two weeks.
Why not just tell him that instead of pissing him by giving some vague non-explanation?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
No clue...
Probably stems from the same mindset that had Eric Chavez listed as day-to-day from 2008 through 2009.
The monster at the end of this blog.
That's nonsense
Two perfectly good reasons that have nothing to do with a knee-jerk reaction to a couple starts are:
1. They want him to pitch, instead of not pitch between now and Sept 15th (when they next need a 5th starter).
2. Process-wise, the A’s have seen something they don’t like, such as a bad work ethic/attitude and the “assuming I’ll stay in the big leagues cuz I’m a big leaguer now” mentality, and feel a wake-up call is needed for him to improve to the next level.
Why is one or both of those scenarios implausible? I find them both actually quite likely.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Point number 1 is something, if true, that they could've easily told the press and Mazzaro.
Instead, like I said, they’re pissing him off with a vague non-explanation. Of course, Mazzaro is certainly someone who’s closer to the bottom of the totem pole right now so pissing him off might not matter much. But I’m of the opinion that needlessly pissing your players off is not a good idea.
Point number 2 is fine…if you can show me any hint of evidence that Mazzaro has attitude issues. Otherwise, I can just as easily drum it up as the same knee jerk fans who are pissed off about his recent performance projecting those issues onto him.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Forst expressly denied #2
so unless they’re out-and-out lying about their motivations, which seems unlikely when they could just get away with a “no comment,” that’s not what’s going on here.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
How about throw something other than
fastball and slider and get more comfortable throwing changeups better and in different counts?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How about making him do that before calling him up to the big leagues for most of 2 seasons?
Pam liked my old sig better.
Have they said Mortensen is coming up?
I would doubt it, with Sacramento about to go into the playoffs. I’d guess Bonser gets one start and they give the Rivercats the best chance to win the PCL title.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So I guess Boof will get the start or they'll skip the number 5 guy
I’m not sure I totally understand this move.
But seriously,folks....
Bobo's lineup today
1. Crisp
2. Barton
3. Suzuki
4. Cust
5. Ellis
6. Davis
7. Carson
8. Tolleson
9. Pennington
But seriously,folks....
Blech.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Sep 6, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
Kurt Suzuki: 21.5% IFFB
Joey Votto: 0.0%
Wow.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
You know that Votto guy might be kinda good
maybe we can trade Mazzaro for him.
But seriously,folks....
It's not actually that unsustainable
I mean, yes, no one is going to literally go a career without popping up, but there are guys who are consistently below 4%.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Apparently Mazzaro didn't expect it
JaneMLB
Mazzaro did not speak to media but appeared quite unhappy.
www.kapayne.tumblr.com
And thats a bad thing?
TEX 1
TOR 6
Top 7th
See Padres, San Diego…
Remember, w/o Hamilton this team looks avg. Minus Andrus too. Jeff Francoeur is batting 5th.
Rangers pitching, could they make it through a full year?
it's not a bad thing at all
but a team in the playoff hunt with guys like carson and tolleson in the lineup? come on now.
The only problem is who else can you run out there?
I’d rather see Larish instead of Carson.
Carson is here for a specific reason.
Geren wanted a right-handed option to play against left-handed pitching so Buck was sent down for Carson.
"You're all like big fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 6, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh and here I thought Carson was on the team because Beane lost some sort of bet.
But seriously,folks....
"Consistent strikes"????
Why not option Cahill then? He just walked 6 guys in his last start.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
We have a stud at the lower levels in Stassi
Keep Kurt and Powell with Powell playing twice a week for the next two to three years until Stassi is ready. He’s gonna be a player. IMO, Oaklands best pick last year
by dashman33 on Sep 6, 2010 11:34 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
He probably has the most upside of any of our picks last year,
green probably was a surer bet, but i’m not exactly sold on that yet
www.kapayne.tumblr.com
Stassi has upside, but is he really a "stud" that you'd wait for with bated breath? Why?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm really not going to put any hopes on a 19-year-old in Kane County.
If he’s successful at, say, Midland, then we’ll talk.
im pretty sure every A's fan has their fingers crossed for Stassi & Green
If Taylor or Carter dont pan out then we are in trouble.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Oh, definitely.
I mean, I’m not saying they’re useless. But I’ve seen so many great A-ball prospects flame out in AA that I really just can’t put any hopes on A-ball guys until they’ve shown that they can pass the test of graduating to AA.
I think the playing time is really starting to get to Kurt
This offseason may be the last chance the A’s can trade Suzuki for some value. I’ve voiced my opinion that trading Suzuki made sense even when he was performing well. This talk all assumes other teams aren’t scared of him.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Also, remember he was hurt earlier this year
And when he came back his family member died, so this could just be a tough year overall for Zook non baseball related.
I'm in favor of sticking with him too.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
This
I’m terrified that he’s Russell Martin 2.0 and has simply been run into the ground.
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
by hero66 on Sep 6, 2010 4:53 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Long season fatigue
Jake Fox must have stolen his thunder.
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
Mazzaro
maybe they are trying to limit his inning pitched or it could be that he did something on a off day like party to much before a start and now Beane is paying him back.
Maybe it has something to do with the blister.
It has obviously been messing with his pitching.
"You're all like big fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 6, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought that was what the a's med staff did for concussions?
This is not little league. The kid who strikes out the most is not the worst player on the team.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Sep 6, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
No need to option him down
Just skip him a couple times.
Optioning down a guy who has basically been league average is a slap in the face. Shit like this goes a long way to players just not wanting to be in the organization. I don’t blame them.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
See, I have no idea why they'd option Mazzaro down
I mean, hey, if you were going to skip his start, why not just skip it and keep him with the team. And then again, of all the starts to send him down on, you do it against the worst offense in the league?
"I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested." - octopus virus
very confusing indeed
i don’t understand why he can’t just work on throwing strikes in his bullpen sessions…why in aaa? i wish vinny would’ve said something today actually…
It makes sense if they're bringing up Mortensen. Sacramento needs another starter.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
He throws strikes
So saying they want him to throw strikes is bull. What they may be saying (and rightly so) is that you need to go down and work on location of those strikes because you suck and are currently not good enough to deserve a space on the ML Club no matter the expanded roster.
It's a good thing baseball teams usually don't operate the way you'd like
A guy has one bad start and you send him to AAA. Mazzaro has had 3 pretty good months in a row. He’s probably been lucky, but you’re not exactly a FIP kinda guy. So look at his ERAs. 3.90, 3.78, 4.08. What’s so bad about that?
He’s not great. He might not even be good. He’s about average, and having a guy who’s average (as opposed to Mortensen, who really does suck) as your #5 starter isn’t a bad thing.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
That doesn't mean he's throwing well right now,
or that pitching in AAA might not be better for him right now than “having his start skipped by an off-day” in Oakland.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think sending a guy down for a couple bleh starts is silly
The A’s are acting like they can actually catch the Rangers. I’d rather they give Mazzaro the Major League work.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? I see the opposite.
Mortensen is not an upgrade from Mazzaro at the major league level. If they really felt like they could catch the Rangers, they’d stick with Vin. No, they want Vin to learn something. To practice with something. For later.
The next time the #5 starter will pitch is Wednesday, Sept 15th
Mazzaro should just sit around until then instead of making a start in AAA?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah, but FIP matters to you
Like how you try to have it both ways. You’re not the expert you think you are, no matter what numbers you can site in dismissing other posters. It’s obvious the team doesn’t feel he very good right now, wants to let him know it, and wants to do something about it—something more than citing his ERAs for the past few months.
Let's not forget how Barton said
the best thing to happen to him was to be held accountable for his poor 2008, and sent back to AAA to grow up and figure it out, instead of having a spot handed to him on the basis of his talent.
I don’t see anything wrong with this move, and I assume it means the A’s aren’t 100% pleased with Mazzaro’s mental approach / attitude, in which case they are being proactive and smart to address it now.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Agree
There have been whisperings for a while that the team is unhappy about his lackadaisical approach. The clubhouse apparently doesnt appreciate his indifference to a bad outing, or his insistence that he did well when he gets shelled. I agree with Nico, this is a mental adjustment demotion.
BTW, why did Mazzarro get so militant about his name being enunciated correctly in spring training 2010. Was he caught up in the Mazzaro world buzz to not care then?
Do they really need another starter for the playoffs?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 6, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
again, why?
from stiggy
Just had a phone conversation with A’s assistant GM David Forst, and he stressed this move isn’t about sending any kind of message or wake-up call to Mazzaro. He also said Mazzaro remains very much in the team’s future plans. "He’s just been inconsistent," Forst said. "He’s had very good games where his stuff has been good and he’s pitched from ahead (in the count). Of late, he’s let the offense dictate how he pitches. We know he has talent and ability."
The A's have a day off Thursday, so they won't even need a #5 starter
for about a week and a half. The move tells me they DO want Mazzaro to pitch and to figure some stuff out. A move to AAA isn’t always a punishment; it can also be a venue.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Two thoughts
1. Never have liked Kurt. Can’t really put my finger on it. Just always thought he was completely average and yet treated by the A’s and many of their fans like a budding all-star.
2. Glad Mazzaro was sent down. Do the A’s ever act like being shitty matters? There’s something psychologically significant to be said for creating a work environment in which there are consequences for failure. Listening to Geren on his pre-game show, I thought I finally heard a voice that sounded authoritative. Not a bad thing.
Kurt having an off year
He should bounce back next year. Maybe he has a few minor injuries which is affecting him?
Mazzaro needs to be held accountable. He is bad in the first inning of most of his starts and was all over the place and when he was in the zone, he was hanging off speed pitches way above the belt and grooving fastballs but according to some we cannot make a determination on what we see. If in doubt, bring out a bunch of stats in an attempt to cover the fact that he sucks of late.
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