Angels Stave Off Sweep With Help From the A's, 7-4
by jeffro on Sep 5, 2010 4:13 PM PDT
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There was a game today. The A's got beat, by the score of 7-4 and failed to complete a sweep against the Angels. It is nothing new, they haven't swept the Angels since 2004. The A's pitching, defense and base running all left a lot to be desired. Vin Mazzaro was uninspiring. Boof Bonser was okay. Jeff Larish continues to look like a good surprise. Daric Barton is showing that he is really a big league regular. Kevin Kouzmanaoff left the game with back spasms, officially becoming a full fledged Oakland Athletic. The A's continued the theme of letting the Angels get on base all day, but not the theme of not letting them score.
What really has me steamed is the fact that Ervin Santana wasn't all that good. He usually looks like some hybrid of The Six Million Dollar Man and Superman when pitching against the A's. The A's let one get away while the Rangers were trying to let them back in the race. This is depressing.
Let's talk about something else, shall we?
The precipitous fall of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim from media darling to pretty mediocre. I have been thinking about this fanpost (thanks DFA) at random times for most the past year. When I first read it, I remember thinking "They just picked Scott Kazmir and Erick Aybar over a potential stud."
The Angels are becoming what the Giants already are... An organization that places huge value on declining veterans and is good enough to flirt with contention but not really amongst the class of the league. In comparison, our own William Lamar Beane has been criticized for losing touch with reality, for using an outmoded strategy called "Moneyball" that values walks and guys who wear U Haul Trailers as a part of their uniform. The argument is that Billy Beane got lucky with Hudson, Mulder and Zito. That the offensive production at the time, in Oakland, was steroid inflated and/or the result of anybody but Beane's handiwork. Beane didn't value scouting, and as such, he would falter. Of course they said this from 1999 until 2007 before it came true.
Forget that these interpretations of "Moneyball" show the typical tactical intellect that permeates the sports media in general. Forget that Coco Crisp, Cliff Pennington, and Rajai Davis could out sprint about three quarters of the league. Forget that Beane was an Advanced Scout in 1993 and an Assistant GM in 1994. It'd be kind of odd for a former scout to not value scouting, no? It'd be odd for an Assistant GM not to play a role in the draft planning in the drafts where guys like Eric Chavez came to the organization. Forget that his strategy of going after undervalued commodities allowed the A's to have a better season the year after they lost Jason Giambi. Just remember that, in the long run, betting conservatively pays off. Consider that bets based on subjective observation balanced with objective reasoning will always, in the long run, outperform bets based solely on one or the other.
In short, watching this past month of baseball, and looking at where the A's are compared with their division rivals, has me fairly certain that all the Beane haters are in for 5 years of crow for dinner.
This off season, he will be able to go after what he needs while locking up key young players. History tells us that when Beane has a solid base of players under controlled salaries and the ability to layer useful, but declining, veterans on top of that rather than following the model of the Angels, it is a great thing for us A's fans.
Losing the chance to sweep today stinks. Knowing that there are plenty of sweeps coming is pretty cool.
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I have lost a lot of faith in Beane over the last two years, when I was in full support of him before.
This organization is rarely making smart moves anymore.
Thanks for bringing up the old fanpost. I really enjoyed writing that one and am glad that it provoked thoughtful examination.
What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT
by designatedforassignment on Sep 5, 2010 4:37 PM PDT reply actions
I hadn't read it before, or if I did I forgot. It was really good.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say that management is rarely making smart moves anymore, they still do a good
job getting players off the scrap heap like Hermida, and they still do a good job scouting other teams minor leagues like Rosales. I also like the defense and speed emphasis which fits the Coliseum, fits with young players and is cheaper than power at similar WAR. They’ve also started to address their historical problem where they’ve ignored upside in favor of projectability — they’re spending more on the draft and signing big time international amateurs. They still have this problem where they don’t appreciate the “stars and scrubs” philosophy and it costs them such that they keep building teams with 85 win potential.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions
All of the above is good logical thinking,
but, at least to me, since BB became ownership, maybe some “new” logical thinking will be required in order to predict his moves this off season and into the next 5 years of watching “Beane haters” eat crow.
All of the above is good logical thinking,
but, at least to me, since BB became ownership, maybe some “new” logical thinking will be required in order to predict his moves this off season and into the next 5 years of watching “Beane haters” eat crow.
Listened to CT for around ten seconds when he called the A's out for not stepping up...
Yeah, well…
The A’s have only one healthy player hitting over .280. The A’s have NO player on September 5th with as many as 15 home runs, and only three players in double digits. The team’s regular #3 hitter is batting under .250. The top RBI guy has under 70 RBi, and spent the month of August batting under the Mendoza line.
Under those circumstances, this is not a team that will “step up.” There’s nobody who can “step up,” other than the pitching staff. Cust and Barton have nice On Base Percentages, but there’s nobody to drive them in.
My biggest beef with Beane
is not about guessing right or wrong on who would be good or bad, because with prospects that’s a guessing game in part.
My one lingering complaint (same as PT’s) is the one time he didn’t do the one thing he promised he would do: “Stay the course.” Had Beane just done nothing, instead of trying to get better in 2009, the A’s would still have Carlos Gonzalez and would be a lot closer to truly contending right now as well as a lot closer to being the class of the AL West come 2011.
That’s not about accurately gauging Gonzalez’ future (though I’m disappointed about that too, as many of us thought he was one of the few potential “true 5-tool players” the A’s have had around for years). It’s about making a move not designed to make the A’s better in 2011 and leaving the A’s so much worse off for having rushed Gonzalez against scouts’ advice, and then given up on him WAY too soon.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
i think its important to see how beane recovers and builds from here
If he has a bad offseason or can’t get a team improving series of moves done, then hate away. The pitching staff and bullpen are for real. Plus we likely have devine and outman back next year. It’s time to bet big.
by stm72 on Sep 5, 2010 5:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He acknowledged that mistake in the Tafoya interview. Everybody makes them
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Everybody makes mistakes
But this was a failure to stay with the plan — that’s easier to control than trading or trading for the right guys.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
CT Thread
Peter Gammons ran over his puppy. But that wasn’t the worst part. He then proceeded to back over it too. Then rolled forward again (#3), rolled down the window and said, "What are you going to do about it, kid? I’m Peter F**king Gammons, b**ch." Then drove away. -d to the moas
I think we need to get rid of Cust
After all, he struck out this game.
This is not little league. The kid who strikes out the most is not the worst player on the team.
Agreed. He should be non-tendered and DFA.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions
CT saying the same
Had to be an alternate explanation for how badly he pitched today
by stm72 on Sep 5, 2010 5:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not buying.
When he went 3-0 to Napoli — the very most likely Angels’ hitter to have a 3-0 green light and to HR on a 3-0 pitch — I wondered to myself, “So did you learn from the Teixeira bomb?” Answer: No. That’s not a blister, that’s bad pitching.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
yeah, i guess he could just be this bad
Does he only have two pitches? Fastball, slider?
by stm72 on Sep 5, 2010 5:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
then i predict more games like this for him
by stm72 on Sep 5, 2010 6:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Pretty much
His “changeup” is only about 5 MPH slower than his fastball and I don’t see much of a curve.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
don't the a's teach the change up to all pitchers
by stm72 on Sep 5, 2010 6:16 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
reply fail...i assume that was his slider?
by stm72 on Sep 5, 2010 6:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He generally throws a 90-92MPH fastball
and a good slider. Occasionally he’ll throw a pitch around 85-86MPH that is like a “BP fastball” — I guess it’s his changeup but batters rarely chase it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
maybe the fear is that batters WILL chase it
and hit it a long way
This is not little league. The kid who strikes out the most is not the worst player on the team.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Sep 5, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Not if it's at the ankles.
They’re sure hitting his fastball a long way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I say get rid of him
Uninspiring and gets hammered too often.
Does not have an out pitch and cannot locate unless it’s to the opposiing team’s benefit.
But then we'd get Boof
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions
But how often is too often?
I mean, I like to get hammered once in a while, too.
This is not little league. The kid who strikes out the most is not the worst player on the team.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Sep 7, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I still don't understand his curve or his slider.
More often than not, his curve blends into his slider. It’s like he throws a whole continuum of pitches that range from an 85-mph slider to a 75-mph knuckle curve.
seems to me that no matter how successful you are in the minors...a pitcher should demonstrate three things before they get called up
1.) the ability to throw strikes with multiple pitches
2.) fastball control…better if you can do this with a sinker or cutter
3.) a put away pitch even if you’re a “pitch to contact” pitcher.
I think this offseason will determine a lot about Beane's legacy.
He’s built a heck of a pitching staff, but the offense of the past few years has been pretty pathetic. I think (and hope) he goes out and gets a big bat on the free agent market and also engages in serious trade talks for guys like Kemp and Rasmus. It would just be a ridiculous coup if he could sign Werth and also trade for Kemp or Rasmus, even if that meant that one of the young pitchers (maybe Mazzaro or Gio) were traded away, even though I’ve soured on that idea before.
But if he fails to bolster this lineup with some “known quantities”, then I think this type of “get to .500 for a day, then slump for a series and claw back next week” inconsistent and ineffectual efforts will be the norm in Oakland until the team is eventually sold.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Yup
but I also think 2011 is the start of a 3-5 (probably closer to 3) year window of being competitive, and I think the starting pitching is going to be the backbone of that. To me that means keeping Anderson, Cahill, Gio, and Braden.
Pam liked my old sig better.
CT was so frustrated that the A's couldn't make a move
during this Texas skid, but the fact is that when you have a .500 team you tend to win a bit then lose a bit, and it’s hard to get on a 10-2 run. With an offense this bleah, the A’s just don’t have the tools to put pressure on the Rangers. Get a real #3-#4 and it’s a whole different story — until then, though, it’s not surprising that this team can only do so much no matter what the teams around them are doing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's why I didn't buy CT's comments today
This team doesn’t have the horses to do more than play at the .500 level, and only that if the top four starters are sufficiently on their game to hold the other team in check.
In order to make their move into contention, as mikev says, they have to keep Anderson, Cahill, Gio and Braden.
Maybe packaging Cardenas, Mazzaro and Simmons will get someone like Kemp or Rasmus ….jeez, Rasmus is getting benched by LaRussa and has six more homers than anyone on the A’s, and an .844 OPS. God, the A’s hitting sucks.
The only reason the team's even still sniffing .500 is because of their pitching and defense
I think that’s what we all expected anyway, but the pitching as a whole has still outperformed what I thought it would.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
My issue with CT
Is that he wants the A’s to go on like a 8-10 game winning streak and with this offense, I can’t see that happening unless the team starts hurling shutout after shutout and thats really too much to ask.
If the A’s can get to 5 runs a game the rest of the season, they will be in great shape, but this bodes well for 2010.
Forgot to add
Minus the Yankees, the A’s have played decent ball. Winning the last 3 – 3 game series 2-1 for a record of 6-3.
I would love a sweep for the A’s and Jays this week. That would put us 4 back and this would get really interesting.
True. They're pretty good when they're not losing 4 in a row.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with this.
but then, I’ve also assumed 2011 was the start of the actual contending window, so most of the people freaking out this year because we have no bats to go with this great pitching…
that’ll be me NEXT year if we don’t have any bats to go with this great pitching.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Agreed
This year was not a waste since the pitching really came into it’s own. Next year is the time when the offense needs to come together and back up that awesome pitching.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
The reason the pitching looks good, as I've said before,
is that it is being subsidized by the offense. Kevin Kouzmanoff’s glove comes attached to Kevin Kouzmanoff’s bat. You can’t have it both ways.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
I don't have a problem with Kouz
I’m fine with upgrading the COF and maybe 2B and calling it an offseason.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
2009 Beane should have stayed the course with Gonzalez.
Now he indicates this off-season that he want to stay the course, yet this is the year he needs to acquire a free agent bat – and not a one year rental.
Trade or FA are in order
Rasmus is on sale. We can pack Mazzaro, Raj and Donaldson for him.
Also, Wuerth could be a good addition, as well as Dunn for DH. The heart of 2011 lineup should come from other clubs, via FA or trade. We need 2 or 3 bats (2 if we count Carter as a regular for 2011)
I keep dreaming about this Opening Day Roster:
Starters: Cahill, Gio, Braden, Anderson and Mortensen (or an FA pitcher)
Bullpen: Wuertz, Bailey, Ziegler, Breaslow, H-Rod, Devine and Outman
Catchers: Suzuki and Powell
Corner Infielders: Barton, Kouz and Larish
Middle Infielders: Pennington, Rosales and Tolleson (or Sogard or Cardenas)
Outfielders: Wuerth, Coco, Sweeney, Carter and Dunn (for DH)
That’s a contending team, with this lineup: CF Coco, 1B Barton, RF Wuerth, DH Dunn, 3B Kouz, C Suzuki, LF Carter, 2B Rosales and SS Pennington.
Well, dreaming doesn’t cost a thing, right?
I can dream of a better roster than that.
Starters: Lee, Anderson, Gio, Braden and Lilly
Bullpen: Bailey, Wuertz, Breslow, Henry, Fautino, Ziegler and Blevins
Catchers: Suzuki and Powell
Corner Infielders: Barton and Beltre
Middle Infielders: Pennington, Hudson and Rosales
Outfielders: Crawford, Coco, Rasmus and Rajai
That’s a World Series contender with this lineup: LF Crawford, 1B Barton, CF Coco, DH Cust, 3B Beltre, RF Rasmus, 2B Hudson, C Suzuki and SS Pennington
The trade is Cahill and Kouzmanoff for Rasmus. Sweeney, Carter and Outman still have options. Devine can be on the roster if he’s healthy and send down Fautino.
My dreaming is equally as free as yours.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 6, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
It does seem a bit odd to dream about a roster with Jeff Larish on it, doesn't it
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
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