A's Beat Twins, 6-2. Take Series.
by jeffro on Sep 19, 2010 2:18 PM PDT
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Man, I love baseball.
That is the first thing that crosses my mind after a game like today's. The A's ran their JV team up against a resurgent Francisco Liriano. Considering that the A's lineup had only scored more runs than five teams in all of baseball coming into the game, and Francisco Liriano had only allowed 2 runs over his pervious 21.2 innings, it seemed runs would be hard to get.
Add to that, Bobby Cramer was making his second career start against a team that has scored 723 runs. Tied for fifth most in all of baseball. It wouldn't have been shocking if the A's had whimpered quietly on their way out of the gorgeous Target Field on the wrong end of a lopsided score.
All seemed on target as Rajai Davis grounded out to third to start the game. It didn't seem alarming when Daric Barton ripped a solid single through the right side of the infield. That is what Barton does. It was then, that series of odd occurrences had me smiling. Mark Ellis hit a questionable call aided double down the left field line. A Kurt Suzuki duck snort into no man's land in short Right Field followed and the A's had staked Cramer to lead before he ever stepped on the hill. Perhaps the strangest part of the first inning? The A's managed to add on! With two outs and the bases loaded, Akinori Iwamura drove a single to center, proving that he isn't quite an "A" just yet.
Cramer was solid, if not spectacular, in his 5.2 Innings of work. He issued three free passes and surrendered five hits. The last two hits were no doubt about it home runs from Michael Cuddyer and Jim Thome, which means Cramer has now surrendered 3 runs in his big league career and all have come on solo HR's. I'd say he earned himself another turn on the mound.
An interesting decision faces the A's this off season. Well, several interesting decisions, but the one I am thinking about right now is what to do about the Unicorn. Ellis' bat made a statement today, he went 3 for 3 (HR, 2B) with 2 BB's. It will be interesting to see how the A's decide to approach Second Base this off season.
On the one hand, they could decline Ellis' option and try to sign him for cheaper. They could decline the option and hand the job to Adam Rosales. Does Iwamura factor in at all? Steve Tolleson's ability to be a big league Utility player? What about Adrian Cardenas?
How would you approach Second Base for the 2011 season?
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in the words of that Baseball Prophet Joaquín Andújar:
“Baseball can be summed up in two words: you never know.”
the day before he grounded out 3 times
at least once to 3rd though i think each time to the left side of the infield
by heartstopper on Sep 19, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
It's one word...youneverknow
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Ellis is on fire.
Maybe this was just a really down year. What has his BABIP looked like most of the season, and what does it look like now?
"I wasn't able to extend so I had a serious lack of extension."--Dallas Braden
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Sep 19, 2010 2:29 PM PDT reply actions
I'd think they would
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Did Carter not hit again?
Had a hard time getting 860 today on the North Shore of Oahu. Must have been the big surf…..or drilling.
I'm here to talk about Don
I got 860 clear down through Salinas on my way back home.
Can’t get it as clearly in Oakland.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I'm guessing 57
at bats until he gets a hit. It’s not all bad. He does have one walk.
why pitch carefully to CC
it’s not seeming risky to the pitchers it seems.
Hoping they’ll get lazy and groove one.
About 2nd
For a while I was banging the Orlando Hudson drum but I have since cooled on that notion. At this point I’d bring Ellis back whether that means picking up the option or declining it and signing him for cheaper. All FA money should be spent on upgrading the COF and maybe a SP if one of our current guys were traded for a bat.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Ellis is making a statement
Even with a slight loss of range, he’s still a better fielder than Rosales or any of the other in-house options. He could also be one of those players who has a late career hitting surge. Unless the team is feeling really cheap, I’d say take the option. This is a guy who might very well hit better than .280 next year, and he still has some power in his bat. I’m not averse to the A’s overpaying slightly for Mark Ellis, if that’s what it takes. Besides, I like the idea of continuity.
Not saying you're wrong
But what makes you think Ellis is going to have a “late career hitting surge”?
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Sep 19, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
A hunch
There have been indications throughout his career that Ellis could one day put it together for an entire season or two. The Ellis we’re seeing now shows me that he has the potential to return to the 15-homer level he’d been in up until this year. A lot of decent middle infield hitters (Mark Loretta for example) put it together for a couple of years at around Ellis’s age.
Randy Velarde!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Volare! oooh oh, Contare....woh woh woh woh....
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho. --- theme for september = relax, take it easy, and don't struggle.
by ak_A on Sep 19, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
{scribbles furiously in pad, sends fax to hospital}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
(fiddles with leg bracelet)
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho. --- theme for september = relax, take it easy, and don't struggle.
So Ellis is going to find some undetectable steroids to take?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 19, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He'll be free and clear.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
And what the hell has happened to McFadden?!
He’s running behind his pads. Who is this guy?!
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
I don't know because I can't see the game because the stupid ass Raiders can't sell out.
and on top of that, because of their dumbass broadcast rights crap, CBS can’t even show another game locally here while the raider game is still going.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Just watch NFL Red Zone instead.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
greatest invention ever?
Rajai Davis is quicker than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
I don't generally follow football, but yes, yes it is.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Yes, it is.
Peter Gammons ran over his puppy. But that wasn’t the worst part. He then proceeded to back over it too. Then rolled forward again (#3), rolled down the window and said, "What are you going to do about it, kid? I’m Peter F**king Gammons, b**ch." Then drove away. -d to the moas
by Leopold Bloom on Sep 19, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
buy me a sling box and you can watch the feed from me...
i live in chico… beyond the blackout radius
by heartstopper on Sep 19, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
he said he went to a camp this summer
by michael johnson (the olympic sprinter). he was around several primo RBs and he said it really helped.
one thing i noticed though…. he needs to left his legs up when he runs. he just seems to slide his feet along the ground. can’t argue with today’s results though… 30 carries/145yds.
by heartstopper on Sep 19, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Guess I was sort of right about my prediction earlier
And once again Green pisses me off by yanking Carter. Stop that!
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Sep 19, 2010 3:11 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Geren, of course. My smartphone must not like me trying to type "Geren"
Unless it secretly wants the A’s to hire Dallas Green…
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Sep 19, 2010 3:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Meh. He needs a break. He's mentally beaten at this point.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Maybe even beaten forever
I don’t think it matters anymore…
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Sep 19, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
DFA?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
part of the Kemp trade?
"Feel so bad, feel like a ballgame on a rainy day"-Lightnin' Hopkins
by justANotherAsFan on Sep 19, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't trade him for Kemp, but I would for Rasmus or Choo
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
The relevant point about Carter
is that we know now that he can’t be penciled in as a starter at the beginning of next season. The 0-fer must be starting to weigh on him, but even if he had a hit or two, it’s clear that the A’s need to acquire power elsewhere.
I’m not giving up on Carter, as bad as he has looked, but his performance does affect how the A’s approach the offseason. That may be for the best, as callups sometimes show flashes of brilliance and then fall to earth once pitchers adjust.
I hope he gets a hit before the season ends. But then I don’t want to see him until next June at the earliest.
I don't know that at all. How much you wanna bet that if he hits .420 in the spring we'll be
clamoring to start him in LF.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't think he was ready when he was first called up
In fact, I didn’t even think he should be getting a cup of coffee. Now, I would have never predicted him going for 0 for 32, but I did believe he’d be over-matched in MLB and that he wasn’t ready. Still isn’t.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Maybe not, but if they think he'll learn faster in the majors I'm ok with his being up.
Cahill seems to have survived his bad year in 2009 OK. Same with Gio.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, we tend to worry too much about confidence
Carter knows he has struggled at every new level. He’s not going to fall apart over a slump, or if he is then he’s not much of a prospect. To me the issue isn’t how long the 0-fer lasts, but rather how he does once he gets the first hit. He ought to relax and go on a tear, hopefully.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not even that worried about the first 3 months -- 300 PA.
As long as he’s decent in the next 300 PA I’m OK with him. I’m also OK with trading him for Choo or someone who’ll be good immediately.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions
It's whether he's developed the skills necessary to hit at the MLB level
And i find that to be questionable. I think he’s gotten a little lucky against minor league pitching and his approach isn’t ready to be successful at this level. It has nothing to do with confidence and everything to do with simple readiness. I saw his original call up an act of desperation to bring power to the lineup. Now they think sending him out there will quicken his development which I kind of shrug at and find a bit doubtful, but I’m also no expert so hopefully I’m proven wrong.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
He may have the skills but not be using them
Right now he looks like he’s “hitting to contact” and as a result playing pepper with the fielders. When he gets back to just relaxing and unleashing a big easy swing, I suspect he’ll hit big league pitching like he hit minor league pitching.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And yet he's struck out in like half his AB.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Not as much recently, though
He has become very “must make contact” oriented and looks (to me) very defensive.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I like him more now that he doesn't look as much like Crosby
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Except (SSS notwithstanding)
His MLB approach doesn’t look too much unlike his MLB approach. Right now, what you see may be what you’re getting. And let’s be honest, if he’s hitting to contact, he wouldn’t be striking out as much. He’s just swinging like he’s completely lost at the plate.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Yeah, but how did Gio look last year?
Pretty similar, right? I don’t think we’ll know a thing until he gets his first hit. Then we’ll see who he really is.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not really
But I also don’t think you should ever use pitchers as comps to hitters. The two just aren’t the same thing.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
You're saying he'll never improve or that he's not ready today, Sept 19, 2010?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
That he's not ready today, Sept 19, 2010
I definitely think he’ll be as advertised, he’s just not there yet. People expecting him to be there now were getting too far ahead of themselves. His minor league numbers didn’t suggest he was ready, but he will be at some point. Give him more time in the minors to work the kinks out of his swing and his approach and then watch him show what he can do at the MLB level. Throwing him into the line up and expecting him to lead this offense was just absurd fan talk, but it didn’t keep people from projecting that all season long demanding his call-up. It’s the same thing that happened to Barton. He was called up when he wasn’t ready, faltered badly. Went down, got his shit together and now look at him.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Fine but look at Cahill and Gio who took their lumps and then succeeded.
It might be that he has to take his lumps at this level to figure out how to play at this level.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
To be honest, I'd use Barton as a comp.
He had a pretty bad rookie year and now he’s approaching all star level.
Pam liked my old sig better.
I have no problem with Carter going down. I just don't think
that his current performance should dictate that unless he’s obviously losing confidence. It’s more about approach and improvement for me.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
This really has nothing to do with confidence
Just because you’re confident doesn’t mean your ready to go at the next level. There are plenty of players at the A ball level would be confident at the MLB level. It’s whether their approach is ready for it that should determine whether they should be up there or not. Barton was confident, but he also wasn’t ready. His performance showed that.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
OK, he wasn't ready. No one's arguing that Carter is ready.
I’m saying that it’s possible that he develops faster in the majors than in the minors.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I just sincerely doubt that.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I'm agnostic. He might or he might not.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I just think you need to be ready for the majors for that to work
That doesn’t mean ready to be good at the majors, but actually ready. I don’t think he is so staying at the level isn’t going to do it.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
thanks for making me spit coffee all over my keyboard..
he’ll be an all star once he quadruples his homerun power.
Rajai Davis is quicker than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
Isn't that his deal
Sucks at a new level for awhile then does well?
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Please don't compare hitters to pitchers
You’re talking about apples and steaks here. Just not the same thing.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
mmmm steak with applesauce
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Please explain the difference?
Also applesauce go with pork chops according to Peter Brady
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions
There's just very little that's similar between pitching a baseball and hitting a baseball
Other than they’re a part of the same game.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
They're similar in that they're competitive endeavours
In any competitive endeavour, it’s possible to improve faster against better competition, unless you lose your confidence.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, but pitchers can significantly alter their pitching methods.
a failed starter in the minors can convert to submarine and become an effective relief pitcher… a guy can learn a new pitch or add velocity, etc
I just don’t think that there are as many significant changes a hitter can make compared to a pitcher.
Pam liked my old sig better.
You don't think we'll see Carter re-emerge in 5 years
as a submarine hitter?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
depends
are you talking about him holding his bat inverted, or actually swinging and hitting submarines in the ocean?
Pam liked my old sig better.
The latter
But only if they’re yellow.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
The engine won't start.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I disagree
You can improve faster against better competition when you’re ready to face better competition. If you’re not ready to face that competition, you’re going to flounder and your progress is going to be very, very slow. If it weren’t the case, you’d stick a bunch of A ballers in the majors and suggest they’ll be successful.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Yes, but Carter had succeeded in AAA,
which BTW Barton had not when he started 2008 in the majors.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
And that was his age 21 season, IIRC
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Except Carter hasn't had that much success in AAA
It wasn’t like he was tearing it up. Just doing “well” here and there. And the fact that Barton didn’t have that much successful before 2008 and look what happened. You’re kind of proving my point.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
If your point is that Carter isn't ready for
prime time it’s not controversial. If your point is that Carter is better off at AAA, I’m not convinced one way or the other.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
See above
It’s a matter of being ready to learn at the level. That suggests he’s proven himself at AAA to the point where he’d be better off learning at the MLB level. He’s just not there yet so staying at the higher level is more likely to do more damage if he stays in the long term.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
There are two philosophies on this:
1) You get promoted after dominating a level to the point where it’s clear that you have nothing more to learn
2) You get promoted when you won’t be demoralized by failure at the new level and you can learn faster there
You subscribe to the first, apparently. A’s subscribe to the second apparently. I am not sure which is most applicable to Carter.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
there's also 3)
At 23 (going on 24), the team can’t wait for you to be good when you’re 25 or 26. So, you sink or swim at the MLB level.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
If they can't wait 2 years for him to
be good, then they need to trade him for someone who’ll be good during those 2 years.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that ship has sailed
The opportunity to trade him for actual talent might have been last year around this time.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Ironically
the A’s have subscribed to the #2 for years. How successful have they been with hitters again?
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Barton in 2007 MLE by BB-Prospectus
.276/.363/.403
Carter in 2010 MLE by BB-Prospectus:
.220/.303/.409
So Barton was actually more ready. You tricked me!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Barton's real problem was doing so well during his brief callup in 2007...
…that he grew complacent and took it for granted that he’d always succeed at this level (basically). Then he had to deal with people who adjusted to get him out and he didn’t adapt quickly enough. Getting jerked around with the return of Giambi last year really didn’t help, but he figured out what he had to do.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
How do we know he was complacent?
Did the coaches say that?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Ooh. That's damning.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about that
It’s not like he’s the first to ever go “Yeah, I started out well so I thought it was just that easy” then be exposed to the reality of it and learn it’s a lot harder than it seems.
The good thing is he did learn, he did work harder, and we’re seeing the results of it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
It's damning to say he didn't work hard
enough in the first place.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Not necessarily.
I mean, that was basically the first time he’d ever failed at baseball in his life.
Pam liked my old sig better.
To say you coasted is pretty bad.
To say you sucked because you coasted is really bad.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
For me it's more important that he understood it wasn't as easy as he thought...
…and did what he needed to in order to avoid being that bad again.
I think he’s done it enough that he’s no longer a question at 1B.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Now all is forgiven.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that I'm taking any pleasure in seeing Carter struggle this much...
…because I’m not, but I think the way he’s started vindicates those of us who were saying “Not ready, not ready, not ready” all throughout the season to all the people screaming to bring him up just because he was launching bombs.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yep
I’d much rather he proven us wrong. He just has more work ahead of him. Nothing wrong with that. I suspect by this time next year he’ll be up and tearing it up. Just not now and not likely to begin next season.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
This is going to be good for him in the long run, I think
He has the talent to succeed but he always has to adjust to the new levels. We know this based on his past history. Right now he has to make the biggest adjustment of his young career because he’s facing people who know how to get him out and he’s got to figure out how to at least do something with the pitches they’re throwing him or lay off them if they’re not strikes and punish the pitches that are.
Better he goes through these growing pains now so he’s got some experience and things to work on even more going into Spring Training and 2011, whether that means starting in Oakland or back in Sacramento.
This is also why it annoys me so much that Geren is taking him out of the last couple games early. What is that supposed to teach him? The A’s are realistically out of the playoff race, so let him have all the ABs he can get and move him up a few spots in the order as well.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I thought he was taken out for defense today.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he got taken out early two games in a row
Could say it was for defensive reasons both times. With LF as well, he’s going to have his bad moments. He’s had very little time out there.
I know it’d be nice to win all the games we can when we’re in a position to do it, but I can live with losing a couple because Carter has a bad game in the field if it gives him a few more ABs he needs now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Geren's move is defensible here. It's not retarded.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
it's defensible, it's just pointless IMO.
with 10 games left in the year I’m not pulling Chris Carter so that we can get Gabe fucking Gross in there for defense.
Pam liked my old sig better.
I think they have to try to win until
mathematically eliminated. After that, it’s spring training.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather him not have gotten the two cups of coffee
Because I seriously didn’t think he was ready for even that stage of things. But I don’t disagree with your basic sentiment. In the end, it will be a good thing whether it was a short term mistake or not.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
I'm kind of taking the approach of "You're seeing what it's like so...
…you’d better be learning about what you need to work on now." I mean that in the sense that we already know his weaknesses with breaking balls, but MLB pitchers are just steadily busting him with fastballs inside and breaking balls away. He’s seeing them all the time and if he is getting a mistake he isn’t doing anything with it yet.
There’s no better way to improve against that quality of stuff than to keep facing it, at least through the end of this season. They’re realistically not in the race any more even if they’re not mathematically eliminated, so if it was me he’s starting every game the rest of the way and finishing every one as well because it’s not just about the hitting to me. It’s defense as well if the A’s are serious about him playing LF at this point.
I’m not quite at the point of saying “sink or swim” with him, but if he’s really not capable of adjusting to what MLB pitchers are going to throw him, I want to find out as soon as I can instead of just saying “Back to Sacramento with you.” That may be where he begins next season and I’d be fine with that, but a lot of it is going to depend on his Spring Training. Even then, I don’t expect pitchers to go at him there like they are now because they’re working on their own things more.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
This seems to be the A's thinking as well.
This might benefit him in the long run. At least if he doesn’t coast like Barton, it’ll be beneficial.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing there is Carter isn't in a position to coast
He might be if he came up and mashed from the start. We’d have been very excited about that, of course.
Failing right away brings into play a completely different situation than what Barton faced.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
So it's awesome that he sucks!
Always look on the bright side of life..
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Also for what it's worth, I wouldn't have brought Carter up when the A's first did
I’d have waited until early September, either right around the end of the regular season in Triple-A or once the River Cats season was over.
When the A’s did bring him up in early August and sent him down after just a week, it changed things.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
That would have been OK, if it was explained
to him that he was going to stay up only until whoever it was came off the DL. Then if he mashed and they kept him it would have been a pleasant surprise. I’m not sure they did that.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Right
I have no idea what was communicated to him around that time.
To us, we saw “0-for-19 with a walk and a bunch of strikeouts,” sent back down, and it tastes bad.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Well
Since he’s already there and whatever potential damage has already been done (assuming any damage as been done which is arguable and doubtful at this point) I agree with that. I just wish he hadn’t been used in the first place is all. Now that he has, keep using him since it’ll be more damaging now not to. Not using him now basically is like saying “I have no faith in you anymore.”
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Ellis is playing to get his extension picked up. It's not going to happen.
He may sign for cheaper. He may get a better free agent offer. We’ll see.
I’d let Ellis go and plan on using Rosales and Sogard (or maybe Tolleson, but I don’t think he’s good enough) as 2B/IF. I would also weigh Cardenas’ spring highly and give him every chance to make the club out of spring training, which would shift plans at the major league level, of course.
I also think that it’s imperative to be open to trading some pitching depth for the right young bat, if possible. I feel the A’s have quite a few viable candidates for fourth and fifth starter positions next season, and I wouldn’t mind seeing one of our better pitchers traded for the right hitter. I think that baseballwise, the right guy to trade would be Braden, and spiritually, the worst guy to trade would be Braden. Maybe Anderson should be traded before his arm falls off.
I also think the club needs to get Tomko into camp next spring. He was kicking some butt for the Cats in September. It’s also time to put Lenny DiNardo down. He’s very old in cat years and his paws are sore and he only has about half a life left.
Werth and/or Crawford seem like bad acquisitions from a financial perspective, unless current ownership is planning to sell in the next one to three years, in which case, why not put a better product on the field now and drive up the price of the club? Maybe the franchise price increase would be more than the costs of the inflated free agent contracts; I don’t know.
(Cynics and atheists skip the following paragraph) Anyway, all the good cosmic stuff is lined up for the A’s to have a very lucky and relatively injury-free year next year. Stay positive and don’t worry too much. Always be prepared for miracles to happen, and victory to be snatched from the jaws of defeat. Cheer who needs cheers and heckle who needs to be heckled (Eric Patterson would have hit .350 if he had a personal heckler near the on-deck circle every game!)
Plus, the division is likely to remain weak next year, depending on what Texas and Anaheim gain and/or lose in the offseason.
"Burt Reynolds witnessed the conception of his own dad, and frankly, that's what's wrong with him."- TPDMTD!
I also think the club needs to get Tomko into camp next spring. He was kicking some butt for the Cats in September.
Don’t you mean he was getting his butt kicked?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Sep 19, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's possible that the A's pick up the option to bump their payroll.
Sorta like the Sheets overpay last offseason.
by LoneStranger on Sep 19, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Erm.
These bat splinters were going to hurt someone eventually.
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
How horrible.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Geren our beloved Manager has it all figured out..
“…..But he’s swinging at good pitches, so I don’t want to say he’s struggling when he’s not.”
See us no nothings at AN think that Carter is struggling but in fact he is not!!
what could the record be?
Maybe he just wants a record.
Position players in general (not to start a career) is 48
88 including pitchers.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
Scuffling?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
geren forgot
and bad pitches too like the one that bounced on the plate for a wild pitch.
Minnesota had won 9 of their last 10 at home entering this series
And they hadn’t lost a series at home since July 19-21 (CLE).
Last of the Ninth - Photography
So we're now up there with the Indians!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Ziggy's also been pitching very well since the All-Star Break
Not as many chances for a while, but his numbers have been quite good.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Since he came to Oakland really. He's always been good.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he had a pretty poor June
Other than that he’s had a solid year.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
He was grossly over used
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
That's standard operating procedure for all managers
And do you really want guys who are pitching poorly to come in when the game is on the line?
Obviously not, but you can't manage every game like you only have two people in the bullpen plus the closer
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Most managers do...
…so I wouldn’t single out Geren. His goal is to win a game. How often did we complain when he put Tyson Ross in, or Cedric Bowers? Last year he overworked Wuertz; this year he overworked Breslow for a while. That’s what managers do.
What I find fascinating is that there don’t seem to be any studies people here refer to about how bullpen arms are generally mismanaged. Everyone else - all the other players - are diagnosed and prodded about how often they’re used and when they need rest and Verducci effects and so on …. relievers, except for closers, are ignored.
Because they're so easy to find
If one breaks down or becomes ineffective there’s plenty more where he came from to replace him.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Sep 19, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Right
But I’ve never heard of any research. And some of these middle relievers - Zumaya, for example; Wuertz -- are pretty valuable at one point or another.
But generally not for several years at at time.
Maybe it’s because they’re overused when good, but maybe because they’re just not that special.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
What WC said.
Aside from, like, Mariano Rivera and a couple of the other long time great relievers, there just isn’t a long list of relievers who have long careers.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Not true...
A lot of mediocre relievers, like Russ Springer, Arthur Rhodes…all the way back to Darold Knowles, had long careers.
The ones with long consistent careers, though, are the closers like Rivera, and they’re as babied over the years as starters. It’s the middle relievers who are good one year, bad the next, injured the next, out of baseball, then good the following year, etc.
There have been no studies on how to ensure a skein of quality years, or even several uninjured years in a row. They’re just worked to death and discarded.
Alan Embree!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There's a long list of guys with twenty year careers
…and many of them go under the radar so that by the time they come to the A’s, they’ve already been through seven teams and we’ve barely heard of them.
You can figure that Andrew Bailey might put together eight consecutive injury-free quality years, but there’s no way Craig Breslow will, or Henry Rodriguez, unless either of them become closers.
Henry will, as long as he's used as infrequently as he is now.
He’s not a high leverage guy, so he’s not at risk like Breslow.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
This year he's not
If he’s lights out next year, he’ll be over-used.
Problem is everybody here figured that out two years ago
And it seems Geren figured it out 2 months ago.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 19, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair, he was near perfect 2 years ago
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions
By the way, the verdict on Target Field:
As good as advertised and better. They did so many things right with that place. Very impressed.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Makes everything look like it has unbelievable movement.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
As does calling pitches that nearly bounce strikes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd never seen anything like that till today
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember that one
I’d looked away toward the outfield after the pitch and turned back when I heard some reactions like ‘Huh?’ Then I saw the strike on the board and I went ‘Huh?’ too.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Really, read this.
http://www.slate.com/id/2221384/
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 19, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Disagree. It's the single-best baseball-specific television enhancement in my lifetime
The offset angle makes it virtually impossible to judge if a pitch has crossed the plate. I hate not knowing how good a pitch was because the camera is somewhere in left-center field.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 19, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Carlos Gonzalez just struck out with the bases loaded in the 11th.
So glad we traded him.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
At Coors he hits a grand slam
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Sep 19, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Stairs did HR yesterday.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
2003
Not 1903
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Sep 19, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Stairs isn't Jamie Moyer.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Sep 19, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
oh, my bad.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Sep 19, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Since I asked, I should answer
I might consider checking in on a guy like Kelly Johnson. The Diamondbacks might be willing to deal him for some lower level prospects.
Mark Ellis has a very defensively skewed value. I don’t trust WAR when most of the value is based on defensive metrics.
I don’t trust WAR when most of the value is based on defensive metrics.
I know that this is a decent rule of thumb to keep in mind, but wouldn’t Mark Ellis be a clear exception? We know he’s amazing defensively. It’s not like this is some possibly UZR quirk.
Conversely I'm not surprised at all that Johnson sucks by UZR. He looks bad and he was moved to OF.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
By "moved to outfield"
Do you mean 7 games 5 years ago? Or is it more recent? I don’t see that he has played here since 2005?
by jeffro on Sep 19, 2010 9:12 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly. Now he's back to sucking at 2B.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
Your point for why he sucks is 7 games 5 years ago?
by jeffro on Sep 19, 2010 9:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
That's close to my point about why Long and Melhuse suck.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ya kind of. No one would have moved Ellis to OF 5 years ago.
I more of less believe that defensive abilities don’t collapse barring injury, and Ellis looks as good as he ever did.
It’s also that when they moved him to OF and when they non-tendered him, his defense was considered a big reason for that. It turns out that he’s hitting the crap out of the ball and their OF could have used him, but I still don’t consider him a good defensive 2B.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
abilities don't, but speed does and reactions might..
that grounder that you can range to the left and dive and knock down when you’re 27 probably gets by you when you’re 34.
Pam liked my old sig better.
this
In fact, seeing as he’ll be 34 mid-next year this is a main reason why I don’t picking his option is a good plan.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't mind replacing him but I wouldn't expect Orlando Hudson to
be any better. If you’re talking Uggla, I’m all for it.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, but I think this is usually a gradual deterioration rather than a
sudden collapse, so you can still use defensive metrics over a period of time as long as you adjust for age.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, for sure. and I actually think that as elite defenders age they can sorta replace speed/reflex with positioning
and I think Ellis is pretty damn good at that.
Honestly I just think he’s dropped from one of the best defensive 2B in the majors to something more along the lines of “solid but unspectacular”
The problem is he’s not a good enough hitter to make up for NOT being an elite defender
Pam liked my old sig better.
Right, he's a 2-2.5 WAR player. He's OK but no longer an All-Star
— which he should have been in 2005.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
If he's truly a 2-2.5 WAR player
then the A’s should exercise his option. That’s not great or anything, but a team like Oakland cannot afford to be kicking talent to the curb and hoping for good luck in replacing it.
If one of the minor-league infielders breaks out and takes over the position, fabulous, but why put yourself in the position that your season practically depends on that eventuality?
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
You don't trust defensive metrics even over 979 games?
Does that mean you only care about offense?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions
the metrics are such that they can only really tell how good he was
Not how good he is. Especially when you take into account that he’s on the decline and could decline further. The number of games in the past aren’t likely going to help it be more accurate at that point.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Daring. Sensual. Invigorating. Squirrel.
BLOOM. For men.
If the eggs actually hatch I made more than a mistake, I made some scientifically impossible crime.
979 games
Spans quite a bit of time. Mark Ellis in 2003, is not Mark Ellis in 2010. It is a large same size, sure. But I don’t think all of that sample is relevant to 2011.
by jeffro on Sep 19, 2010 8:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly. This is the problem I have with defensive metrics
How many players are that similar over 3 years of their career? Usually, they’re either really young, past their prime, injured, recovering from injury, etc. at some point in any 3-4 year span.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OK, then how do you predict who's going to be good defensively?
You can ask your scouts, but why not give those scouts the numbers and then get their input. It’s the same with hitting, no?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I think combining scouts, metrics, and common sense is the best approach
I happen to think it’s generally the best approach to every aspect of the game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OK but this is such an obvious vanilla position that I can't argue with it.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Damnit.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hi Pam!
(smiles)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not aiming to be original, just accurate
I notice that those who obsessively look only at one of those parts (any of them) tend to be more flawed and limited in their ability to understand/predict/assess.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
(tries to find something here to argue with)
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I disagree with that completely.
Just because someone believes in any given statistic doesn’t mean that is all they give a damn about and is the be all end all. The entire point of any advanced metric is to figure out WTF happened and determine how good/bad whatever happened was, whether it’s a defensive play or a hit or a pitcher doing something.
Thing is, they are always trying to improve the ways that they figure out these metrics. They’re always evolving or creating new ones, etc. To me, that is the major difference between “stats” people and “watch the game” people. Stats people still watch games, but then try to analyze what happened. Others just watch the game and believe what they see.
Quite honestly, If a scout has done things the same way for 30 years, that kinda sucks. The game has changed significantly in 30 years. Stop being so traditional and try to adapt.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Tradition! Tradition.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
You're having a different conversation
I’m not taking sides. I side against scouts who obsess with observation and analysts who obsess with “pet ideas,” too, and I made that clear in my comment. All of them have a legitimate place, and none is “king.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think Beane is "king"
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Trends
If you just look at his fielding runs, he gradually increased those until 2008. For both this year and last, his defense has been 1.5 and 8.4 so far. Combined with his increasing age, they may tell us he’s not at his defensive peak anymore. Is he still better than average? Sure, but with the exception of the recent offensive surge, he’s been more a liability with the bat than an asset. And I’m not sure he’s a $6M player when someone like Rosales may be able to hit enough to make up for slightly lesser defense.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
You also have to consider playing time
His UZR/150 this year is 14.4 and that’s the second highest number he’s posted in his career so I don’t think you can use this season evidence of decline. I mean if two of his best defensive seasons (by UZR at least) have occurred in the last three years that doesn’t indicate to me that he is not at his defensive peak anymore.
Whatever the precision level of the metric we have to make some conclusion about
the player’s value. Just because it’s an imprecise metric — and by the way hitting projections aren’t that precise either — doesn’t mean it’s not important. Run prevention is half the game.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, shaving is important
but if the closest thing I have to a razor blade happens to be a butter knife it doesn’t mean I should put a whole lot of faith into it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So what's your solution? Beard?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
The A's tried that in 1981
He sucked.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nair?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Dave Beard
Nair might have been their LOOGY, though.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
She's also a film director
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
If you have 2 players...
1 with 2 WAR (with -4 offense, and a +8 on defense) and the other with the exact opposite 2 WAR, I will take the second everytime.
Offensive metrics are more reliable than defensive metrics.
Either way, i’ll take a third one with 4.7 WAR (with 18 offense and 4 defense).
by jeffro on Sep 19, 2010 9:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This is different from your position above.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Saying that you'd pick the better offensive player with the same WAR
is different from saying you’d ignore defense, as in:
I don’t trust WAR when most of the value is based on defensive metrics.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
That is exactly the same thing
I don’t trust WAR when most of the value is in the defensive portion ofthe equation. Therefore, if presented a choice between 2 players with same WAR I’d take the one with better offensive numbers.
In a debate between Johnson and Ellis, it is irrelevant because Johnson has more than double the WAR.
by jeffro on Sep 19, 2010 9:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
*in 2010. Johnson has more than double the WAR this season, I mean.
by jeffro on Sep 19, 2010 9:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm all for trading Ellis for Johnson, but I didn't think that was an option
I was just objecting to the statement that WAR was untrustworthy and therefore should be ignored.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry defense not WAR
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Defense is factored into WAR
That was the point of my original statement… I don’t trust WAR when most of the value is derived from the defensive portion of the equation.
Mark Ellis’ value is strictly on defense.
Dan Uggla and Kelly Johnson have value that is either entirely offense, or mostly offense (Kelly Johnson has a +4 UZR this season, Dan Uggla -7.6)
Tigers' pen just blew a 9th inning 7-3 lead
Interesting since the White Sox play in Oakland tomorrow.
by OaklandSi on Sep 19, 2010 8:29 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Oooh....74 innings please
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't know if it's a trend
But Manny couldn’t catch up to fastballs in his at bats.
Going now to 11th inning
by OaklandSi on Sep 19, 2010 8:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If Manny can't hit fastballs he needs to retire. It's not like he helps on defense, running or pitching.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Leadership.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well yes, there's that. Ethier actually credited him with improving his work ethic
on batting. I guess he could be a hitting coach for workaholics.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions
oh, I get it, brilliant..."the role model"
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho. --- theme for september = relax, take it easy, and don't struggle.
How's your luggage?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Now I'm imagining you with smushed make-up on.
Hawt.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
AJ is an amazingly bad defensive catcher
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ellis or Pierzynski?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Which one is that?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions
To clarify
Inge struck out on a wild pitch and made it to 3B after AJ threw the ball away. Tigers just took the lead on an RBI single by Laird.
Now there's nothing left to say, so let's go drink beer.
And yet I'm not surprised in the least that the Rams lost.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
It's really going to suck having to hear all the shit about how the Raiders are "back" now
after an ugly win over the worst team in the league.
and also how the Niners are crap once they start 0-2.
Pam liked my old sig better.
I'm not sure the Rams will win any games this year.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
It wasn't really ugly.
The defense dominated both halves. Steven Jackson averaged just 3.9 yards per carry with our best player in the front seven inactive.
Overall, we ended up with almost 200 more total yards than they did. This would have been a 10-point win if Gradkowski started the first half.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 19, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
a 2 point win at home against the worst team in the league when your starting QB is benched is ugly.
Pam liked my old sig better.
The offense was ugly for the first half.
The defense wasn’t ugly whatsoever at any point and the offense was pretty solid in the second half with our real quarterback despite being without our best offensive lineman, our starting running back and a starting receiver.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 19, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
dunno, some of it was tough to see since it wasn't televised.
i think it’s great that McFadden is “back” after running all over the worst team in the last 3 years.
Pam liked my old sig better.
McFadden had 95 yards on just 18 carries against the Titans so it's just not him being successful against the Rams.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 19, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm not going to argue with you about it.
I’m glad you’re excited about a 2 point win over a crap team.
Pam liked my old sig better.
I'm excited because it's the first win of the season, the better quarterback will now be starting and we did it without some of our best players.
I don’t know why you’re bitter. You sound bitter ’cause we won.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 19, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Because I don't give a shit about hearing about it on the a's site.
and your response to that was to talk about how great the win was and how it wasn’t ugly… but I really don’t care. at all.
Maybe you can talk about the Giants being in first place, too
Pam liked my old sig better.
I wasn't the one who started talking about the Raiders here.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 20, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
yet you couldn't resist responding when I said it was going to suck having to hear about them over here.
Pam liked my old sig better.
My reply to you was about the "ugly win" and not about anything else.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 20, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
We did.
I’m allowed to reply if you comment something on here.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 20, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You're mad.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 20, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought you guys were all giddy that you had Campbell?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Campbell isn't the right quarterback for our offensive line.
Gradkowski feels the rush better, has the better pocket presence and gets the ball out quicker.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 20, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
great, so you'll only lose 10 games this year...
Rajai Davis is quicker than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
I appreciate your comment, but I don't feel like getting my third strike so I won't say anything further.
"You're all like big, fat failure turtles." - Edge
by Rated-R Superstar on Sep 19, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
It's definitely not worth getting a strike over talking about the Raiders on the A's site
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Would I get a strike if I proclaimed Jimmy Clausen my lord and saviour?
"Nah, you look like Elijah Wood." - danmerqury
Imagine how pissed they'll be when they find out they have to go back to Detroit to play the Royals!
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
L.
O.L.
This game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Damnit, now I'm watching.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Did you see the near walk-off?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No...I didn't even realize there was baseball on right now. I'm out of it.
What happened?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Konerko blasted one 5' left of the foul pole,
would have been a walk-off 3-run HR.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Heh. Walks the bases loaded.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Besides, you know, almost a walk off win.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
They didn't PH for AJ vs a lefty?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe they were out of RHs, or catchers, or ass-hats.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You should never be out of any of those in September
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Blow hard.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Sep 19, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Tigers can't seem to close this game
Manny up again, let’s see how he does with the fastball.
by OaklandSi on Sep 19, 2010 9:20 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Huh. Totally forgot about Manny.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Manny K's looking - Tigers lose
by OaklandSi on Sep 19, 2010 9:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
So is this the CT thread?
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
This is a good comment.
It means you’ve forgotten Adam Melhuse and Terrence Long. I wish I were so lucky.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Until now. Bastard.
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
People seem to bring up those 2 guys with surprising regularity.
It hurts my soul.
by whiteshoes40 on Sep 19, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Everyone forgets about Chris Singleton
He walked.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He Custed it too then.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
That's disCusting
but it’s been disCust before.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I wasn't going for originality, just accuracy
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember Chris Singleton fondly.
Infrequently, but fondly.
by whiteshoes40 on Sep 19, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
True, he didn't Barton it
or he would have slammed the bat down and stomped off.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
IT'S JUST SO OBVIOUS MANNY IS JUST SUCH A PROFESSIONAL HITTER HE WILL JUST OPS .900 IN HIS SLEEP
Pam liked my old sig better.
So his problem was that he woke up.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Real or wig?
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
how much does he make next year you think?
!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam
by cuppingmaster on Sep 19, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
-0-
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he didn't give the ump an unbelieving look
by OaklandSi on Sep 19, 2010 9:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
because it was an obvious strike that he was fooled on.
as opposed to a ball 4 inches off the plate.
Pam liked my old sig better.
There is one, cup.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Carter K's less this time up
9K in 19AB in Aug call-up
4K in 13AB in Sep call-up
Progress?
by asfansince1989 on Sep 19, 2010 10:04 PM PDT reply actions
To me it is.
Of course SSS and all that.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd agree
The pop-ups are frustrating but I’m looking at it in the sense of “Okay, he’s making more contact now and it’s a matter of making better contact from there.”
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Popups are just as bad as K's from a results perspective, but they tell me that he's
trying to wait longer on pitches and stay inside the ball. He’s not flailing at sliders away as much. It shows that he’s trying to adjust.
Of course all this could be coincidence and SSS, and he could be just as bad as before.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
by WaddellCanseco on Sep 19, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
In this case contact is always better than K, shows he's seeing the pitch better
he’s also not GIDP’ing either, maybe a good sign, but then again SSS
by asfansince1989 on Sep 19, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I really think you said it all in one...word?
SSS
A's Fan in Sweden
"Some of us know him as the a-hole who piled into Ray Fosse in an All-Star game (it's why Ray is the way he is folks)" - OptimistPrime
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