What is Daric Barton really worth?
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 3, 2010 7:15 AM PDT
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PrintWhat could the A's expect to get back if the team made Barton available in a trade?
I know that many here at AN like Barton a lot. I'm curious though, if baseball people feel the same way. Yes, I know that there are many fine things that Barton brings to the table: High on base percentage and slick fielding being the main positives, along with the fact that he's very young for a major league player. However, this is a team with no power...it has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is not the current first baseman, which is the main flaw to his game. I bhelieve he'd be fine on a team with several other home run hitters, but such is not the case with the Green & Gold.
Waiting in the wings is the team's top prospect, a home run threat who happens to play first base (and now LF too), if only because of a lack of ability at any other position. There is also a proven home run hitter (with a pretty fine career OB%) that will be available as a free agent after the season named Adam Dunn who also plays first. With a lot of money coming off the books for 2011, the team is in a position to make a run at one or even two top tier free agents.
A line up that included Dunn, Carter, Taylor and Cust would certainly be an improvement over what's currently in Oakland.
So...could the A's get something useful for Daric Barton in a trade? What would you expect in return?
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What is he really worth?
A lot less than you’d think because he doesn’t hit enough homers.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Actually...
…that’s what I think.
But if the A’s were able to get say…a kick ass middle reliever with a great K/IP ratio? Would that be enough?
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 3, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions
OK
What do you think he would fetch in a trade?
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 3, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
The A's don't need to trade for middle relievers
Teams sign them for dirt cheap every offseason. See: Dotel, Octavio.
Needs moar dingerz.
Absolutely not!
He’s worth more than that, but what is he worth?
I’m not really sure. I’d have to think that if Matt Capps can get a top 75 prospect, so could Barton.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I can see trading Barton if Carter is your 1B of the future, but Carter is apparently a terrible defender at 1B
I don’t see how replacing Barton with someone who’s about as good, but a lot older and more expensive is a good idea, unless he fetches a lot in trade. In order to make replacing Barton with Dunn a better idea than signing Jayson Werth, you’d need someone at least as good as Werth back in trade. I don’t see that happening.
I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters
What was Kevin Youkilis worth when he was 24?
Youkilis played 5 years in the minors making it to the bigs at age 25. He is 6’ 1" 220lbs
Barton played 7 years in the minors making to the bigs at age 22. He is 6’ 0" 220lbs
Youkilis through 5 minor league seasons: 1413 AB, 30 HR, 327 BB, 214 K, .299/442/439
Barton through 7 minor league seasons: 1963 AB, 52, HR, 366 BB, 313 K, .293/407/455
In six Major League seasons Youkilis has hit 93 HR while hitting .292/391/487
In his age 25 & 26 seasons Youkilis hit a total of 8 HR. Barton hasn’t even reached age 25.
We forget that Barton is only 24 years old. He has the potential to be better than Youkilis.
What was Youkilis worth at age 24? Not as much as Barton is worth right now.
by Hang Man on Aug 3, 2010 9:02 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Youkilis plays in Fenway Park with a stacked lineup
Barton plays in a cavernous park with no protection whatsoever
Chris Carter is the next Hank Aaron right?
by streetisclosedin08 on Aug 3, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
So...we should trade him to Boston where he will be great??
Or are you saying Barton must be much better than Youkilis?
lineup protection is a myth!
;-)
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
So Barton played in the minors since he was 15?
I love my Oakland A's
by Philip Christy on Aug 3, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
he was sent back down after his debut though
maybe the numbers include some rehab starts also? It would be 7 FULL seasons though.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
We need to steer away from extreme comps when looking at Barton
Yes, Barton could in fact gain a power stroke in the next couple years, but he will most likely maintain as the player he is right now.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Very, very interesting comparison.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
He's in a total freefall right now
His last FIFTY games have been totally miserable.
I was convinced earlier in the year, but a 50(!) game slump from supposedly our “best” “hitter”? This. Is. Not. Good.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
HOF?!?
No.
Youkilis won’t get in the hall, Barton won’t get in, I can say that will almost 100% certainty.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly, that was my point
If you select any 50 game stretch you could make the argument that any player is AAA quality or certain Hall of Famer. All you can do is look to the past as some sort of future indicator. I see Barton’s past performance as a strong indicator of good future performance, perhaps even better than Youkilis.
oh, hahaha
I see what you did there.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I have a feeling that the "how good is Barton" debates will turn into the new Cust debates.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Aug 3, 2010 9:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just wait until Cardenas comes up
Then we can have another former would-be savior to argue about.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
I think the key question here is who wants him.
Barton may be good, but so are a lot of other 1Bs. I don’t think there are that many teams looking for a 1B.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
True - is there any team that Barton would constitute an unquestionable upgrade at the 1B position?
Maybe Texas? Overall I think most teams have a 1B that they are happy with, or a stud prospect who will be up soon.
by Billy Frijoles on Aug 4, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Baltimore
They’re looking at Luke Scott and Jake Fox as their only real options at 1B next season. Scott has very little experience at the position, and we’re all familiar with Fox’s limitations. Additionally, Brandon Snyder has really flamed out as a prospect. I think a long term solution at 1B is at or near the top of the O’s offseason wish list.
by CapgrasDelusion on Aug 5, 2010 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
What we have to keep in mind is that Barton's production is larger than his "sexiness".
He doesn’t hit home runs. And yet, his fantastic OBP, plate discipline, and 1B defense make him a very productive player indeed. His trade value is likely nowhere near what he’s actually worth.
except, over his last 50 games
his OBP has not been fantastic in any way.
He’s crashing and burning pretty hard right now.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
not in a supposed elite hitter though
esp one with Barton’s past history of slumping.
Also, we just got Jeff Larish from Detroit. Im saying Dale is hurt that’s why he’s not performing….wouldnt be surprised if Carter gets the call and DB goes on the DL.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Except Barton is not a "supposed elite hitter"
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don't think I've seen many people call Barton a "supposed elite hitter"
Last of the Ninth - Photography
so why is everyone so overprotective of him on here?
perhaps I should have written “potential” not “supposed” though, but my question still stands.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Aren't you the same guy who said we shouldn't judge Kouzmanoff one way or another until the full season is over?
Mainly because Kouzmanoff usually starts poorly and ends well or something?
Yet you’re ready to judge Barton based on 50 games after he had an excellent start to the season?
Got it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Im not judging him though.
I was on board when he was kicking butt back in April & May. I think he might be injured.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Well it sounds like you're twisting your words right now
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldnt say twisting my words
im looking like a fairweather barton fan. im okay with that. its not like we a bare for 1B options.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Ok, I see what you're saying
It’s hard with a guy like him.
I hope he turns it around, but I’m not holding out hope that he’ll consistenly OPS above .800 in an A’s uni
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure even elite guys have had long slumps before
didn’t Jeter have a terrible 1st half a couple years ago?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
A-Rod 599 seems to be going into one now.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
about 41 at-bats, not 50 games though
but I understand your point.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
What Larish tells me is they're committed to keeping Carter in LF.
Which is good.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shut the hell up
Did Barton steal your girlfriend or something? You trying to villify Barton around here is getting pretty damn old.
Yes he’s scuffling. Guess what?
He’s also 24, still getting on base, and the second-best offensive player on the team.
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
This post reeks of CGV
http://www.athleticsnation.com/pages/community
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Oh please
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
We are trying to class up the joint arent we?
“shut the hell up” is wayyyyy out of line and worthy of a flag. come on, be civil here.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
If you have unbelievably thin skin
sure
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
has nothing to do with my skin
read the link, its the first one. theres no need to attack personally here. im not going to flag you, but you deserve it for that post. that kind of talk is not tolerated around here (anymore). be civil please.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
flag him or get off the pot
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 3, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
it was a little uncalled for
but you would come off better just flagging him instead of saying you should but won’t.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Agreed
Drawing attention to it just comes off as whiny and passive-aggressive. Flagging it gives the system the chance to work the way it’s intended to, leaving it up to others to agree (or not) with it being worthy of a strike or not.
For what it’s worth, I doubt it’ll get a strike.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
And before someone decides to go dig it up...
…that comes from someone who once used the “I could flag this but I won’t” line in a moment of irrational anger.
It comes off as campaigning for others to flag on your behalf and when I said it I was wrong to do so.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
yeah its kinda like flopping in front of the ref and begging for the foul.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 4, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
His OBP has still been .350 over this "slump"
I’m not too concerned…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
that -0.460 WPA
is perez-like.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Also his babip isnt really low either, its .301
He has legitimately sucked since summer. Dude i know you are a big fan, what do you think the problem is? Id put 2-1 odds on that our team has asked him to play hurt since late May. Even I know he’s a better hitter than this. We cant really win with a .340 OBPing Barton.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Luckily his OBP isn't .340
As to the problem? Um, 50 games of not hitting that well. It happens.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Barton has been banged up repeatedly
he’s been dinged in quite a few games recently. Not enough to miss more than a game or two (answer to reporters=“Yes, I’m fine”) but how many of us realize he’s playing a little hurt, hurting in probably five or six places. His D is keeping him on the field, but indeed he may not be able to be at “full faculties” getting decent swings a high pct of the time. Right now, he’s got “warning track power” (see Chicago, bases loaded) but I would say the last fifty games have been subpar, because Barton physically has been subpar. He’s young, let’s stay with him.
Second thot: the “power of religion” and that whole can of Grieve worms.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Aug 3, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
He's only missed two games all year, and one of them was because Geren is afraid of CJ Wilson.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
well during his last 50 games its .348 and falling every day.
I really hope if I keep posting about it he will go 4-4 today and everyone can call me a fool…..hey i’ll take that for the team, 100% of the time :)
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Hey, I'm still waiting for that guaranteed Kouzmanoff second-half surge
(Though he did OPS .749 in July, which for him IS a surge).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
hes still league average at the position
I don’t get why you hate him so.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 4, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Youk
lite
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Just play for the name in front of the uniform.." - Dallas Braden
"Oakland is the emotional choice, and could still work, but San Jose really is the best choice." - UncleLeo
by ST on Aug 3, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
not even close
Youk is on a HOF-trajectory. He mashes with power, takes walks, hits for average, plays exemplary defense at both corners, he doesnt even ground into double plays! He’s absolutely in my top 5 position players in the game, Barton will never be in the top 20.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
WTF? HOF-trajectory? LOL
Youkilis is 31, he has a sub-900 OPS in a hitter’s park, and he doesn’t have anywhere NEAR the requisite counting stats. The guy likely has 3-5 good years left. He’d have to hit about 50 homers a year (he’s never hit 30) to even get a sniff.
Youkilis is a very good, very underrated player, but at this rate (trajectory) he’s not going to be on the HOF ballot for more than a year or two.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
I wish he was hitting for the A’s right now though.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Oh, he's absolutely a fantastic hitter right now
And he might even be a top 5 hitter in baseball (questionable). But he’s not a Hall of Fame-bound player.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Youkilis is very good, but I wouldn't say top 5
And his 3B defense has declined rapidly.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
dude
please dont tell me what my top 5 is. thats clearly a personal opinion call, come on.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I wouldn’t say top 5
I’m not telling you anything. Ok, dude?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 3, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Well my Top 5 players includes Ross Gload
But I’m pretty sure he’s not one of the 5 best players in the sport.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Im sure Youkilis is though, and even if hes not, its opinion anyway.
happy?
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
"Best" is absolutely NOT opinion
We may not be able to figure out with absolute precision who the best is, but there are 5 baseball players who are objectively better than the rest. There are 5 guys who are better at making a baseball team win than everyone else. We might not have all the data needed to figure out who they are, but that doesn’t mean it’s a matter of opinion.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even with perfect data, determining who is best
depends on agreeing on a definition of “best”. Although I wouldn’t call it that a matter of opinion, per se, neither is it something on which reasonable individuals cannot disagree without one being wrong.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Huh?
The best player is the one who makes you win the most baseball games.
Do you have a competing definition?
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
Well, there's the whole luck vs skill thing
Like if Mookie Cabrera comes up and hits a whole bunch of lucky bloops, does that make him a better player because he helped win all those games? The numbers say he was, but other numbers will say he won’t necessarily be good in the future.
Since I’m sure you didn’t forget about that, I gather you’re thinking of that as part of the calculation, not part of the definition. I’m thinking of that as part of the definition, since the data alone don’t answer the question; it’s a matter of how we choose to interpret the data.
I suppose it’s just a semantic distinction and we don’t really disagree on this.
It’s funny being on the other side of this. I’m usually the one who speaks up for measuring players by what they did and not only what they project to be. It’s hard for me to imagine that the AN crowd is going to be happy declaring a guy who has an obviously lucky season as the “best player” for that season, even if he was.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
yeah thats probably has the repeatable skill that makes you win the most baseball games
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Aug 5, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Ross Gload is going to be a free agent this year
I’m just saying, if Billy wants to win it all he knows what to do.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Phillies gave him a two year deal!
He’s not a FA until after 2011. I’m kind of excited for him to get some more playing time with Howard hurt.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading Barton seems a bit foolish only because his trade value is likely a lot lower than his actual production suggests it should be
I’m sure they could find somebody to take him, but they won’t be willing to give much in return.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 3, 2010 11:27 AM PDT reply actions
ADAM DUNN WAS JUST PLACED ON WAIVERS!
GET HIM, BILLY!!!
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I think/hope Barton is not hurt and stops sucking soon
because an on-fire Barton into Cust into Dunn = PL78 wet dream scenario.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I mean like
Sunday Morning into Im Waiting for the Man into Femme Fatale ;)
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
1 more year
I noticed the other day how his arms are so small. He needs to get in the gym in the off season and bulk up some. A little added muscle could make him a good hitter but even a pitch down the middle of the plate he can’t take it out of the park.
arms are so small?
see Patterson, Eric. He’s not exactly Jose Canseco. Yet he’s got HR pop.
Bat speed is everything for HR distance. Look at Henry Aaron in his prime. He was no “cut” dude; I think Rickey H is even built more solidly than Aaron.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Aug 3, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Look at Chavez.
Mark Ellis is just as big as Chavy, but Chavy had immense power.
Pam liked my old sig better.
Yup, bat speed again
According to the book “The Physics of Baseball” a bat velocity of 70 mph will propel a ball a little under 400 ft (85 mph pitch) while an 80-mph bat velocity will drive the same pitch 450 ft. (page 93).
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Aug 3, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
There are 35 major-league quality 1b and only 30 spots
This hurts the re-sale value for all of them. Especially one who has a ~.750 OPS.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
the grass is greener I guess
So…could the A’s get something useful for Daric Barton in a trade? What would you expect in return?
I really doubt they’d get much in return. I think his fans here on AN (I’ll count myself there) hope he finds some kind of honest .425-.450 SLG power… that he has so far not shown in the bigs. His career is .392 through 300+ games, and he’s at .389 this year. Maybe that’s just what he is, a light hitting, OBP guy with no speed. Oh, and he plays a nice 1B, but wouldn’t most teams be perfectly happy hiding a mashing butcher there? Wouldn’t the A’s like to have that option?
I really don’t see how other teams covet Barton. I think he’s going to find more fans here because he’s already here… or are there other sub .400 SLG 1B out there the A’s should be looking to add to their roster? (See what I did there?) I guess my point is that we can hope he gets to say, .425 SLG and that would be fine for most of us and I don’t think other teams have that same level of hope in him.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
dang, forgot to add...
I think next spring’s (and maybe this winter’s) Barton vs Carter debate has the potential to get ugly all the way around.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
Mashing butcher
Give me Adam Dunn. I doubt he jumps for a grounder (handing the Royals the game) like Barton did tonight. If our first baseman can’t hit HRs he damn well better field his position.
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 3, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Barton normally fields his position extremely well
Acting like what happened last night is the norm is not being honest.
Dunn will mash, but you don’t want to see him with a fielder’s glove if you can help it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Error machine.
His 10 errors are second in the majors amung first basemen.
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 6, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
When you have a ton of range, you're more succeptible to errors.
Also, Barton is great scooping poor throws from infielders, which errors does not account for.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Youkilis is one of the hardest workers in baseball
He’s completely remade himself physically since he was in the minor leagues. He goes to API and works his ass off every winter. If Barton has anywhere near that kind of drive, it’s not readily apparent. Been talking about this for a while. Daric Barton is a good and useful player, but if he wants to be more, he’s got to the gym, and hard.
by AgitationStation on Aug 3, 2010 7:57 PM PDT reply actions
Not to be a dick (meaning I'm about to be a dick),
but how do you know what Barton’s drive is like?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
I agree
I think playing game after game with a broken middle finger on your throwing hand indicates a pretty good level of seriousness. He’s also got himself in much better shape than when he was younger (even compared to Sept 07). I think Barton works hard, and will continue to do so.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I see him as one of the A's "gamers"
Barton and Braden play hurt, play hard, show intensity, and are in that way, now team leaders IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The A's need a "team leader" who DOESN'T play when hurt
It might actually rub off.
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
by PaulThomas on Aug 4, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
re
I don’t. It’s not readily apparent, like I said. I don’t see how the question makes you a dick though. Fair.
Look, all I’m saying is that before someone compares him to Youkilis, and use stats from when he first came up to compare to Barton, they should remember Youkilis has made himself a great player, in large part because he worked so hard to transform himself from a pudgy guy into a solid block of muscle (without sacrificing durability or flexibility, ftr), and added a lot of power in the process. If Barton is undergoing some kind of intense offseason conditioning program, it’s curiously remained a secret. But, it’s the sort of thing a not terribly physically gifted player has to do to achieve greatness.
by AgitationStation on Aug 5, 2010 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe I just don't pay attention,
but I don’t hear of any players offseason conditioning programs. The reason I’d imagine you’ve heard about Youkilis is because of ESPN.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
He's a solid role player
For me, Barton is the guy you bring in late innings when you’re ahead and want some defense at first base. He can DH now and then and get on base as well. He can pinch hit. He probably can play catcher in a pinch. But as a starter at 1B, he simply doesn’t have enough pop in his bat and he’ll be 25 in a couple of weeks. He doesn’t seem to have a knack for fouling off pitches he doesn’t like, but he has great plate discipline.
What can you get for someone like that? Not much. But I like having him on the A’s as a non-starter playing in 50 or so games. IMO, you could start Barton on a contending team, but only if you have a 3rd basemen and corner outfielders with power. Just for comparison, Hatteberg wasn’t as good defensively, but had a little more power and similar plate discipline. The A’s picked him off the scrap heap.
And Scott Hatteberg was a nice little player
for quite a few playoff teams.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
A near .400 OBP?
I’ll take that at basically any position on the diamond, even 1B. I think Barton will develop some power too, slugging around .430-.440 at his peak. An OBP heavy OPS of .800, which I think is attainable for Barton is just fine by me.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
I don't do drugs.
That must be some primo shit you’re smoking.
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 6, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Hm alright.
What exactly, is wrong with my post?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Doubles machine
Barton could easily be a doubles machine with a bit more power, ala a dinged up Mauer. As it stands what is a doubles machine at 1B worth? If he was at a better hitters park would some of those doubles be home runs? From the spray chart on mlb.com it doesn’t look like it at all. Unless he gets a major power surge it looks like he’s going to be a singles and doubles guy. Not a bad hitter but the real question comes down to his value at 1st base in comparison to Carter.
Carter's 1B defense has been said to be not good.
I dunno if he’ll stick there.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
He won't
He’s finally being used almost exclusively in LF now in Sacramento.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Hattieberg
I should mention the A’s did well with Hattieberg behind 1st for some good years. The diff being we had better help on the diamond what with Chavez, Tejeda and a younger Ellis. I believe Barton has more upside than Hattieberg, but the rest of the lineup doesn’t cushion as nicely and now has a greater focus on speed than power.
shave and a haircut......
two bunts.
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho. --- theme for august = sweep or click.
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