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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

On Why 2011 Will Be the Defining Year of This Franchise

As we await the beginning of, most likely, the defining series of the Oakland Athletics 2010 season, I'd like to take a little full-scale view of why I think the winter of 2010 and the 2011 season will be the defining year(s) of the Athletics franchise as we know it.

Star-divide

Like it or not, it certainly seems like the Athletics ownership group - which now includes Billy Beane - has placed an "all-in" bet on moving the franchise to San Jose.  Lew Wolff has repeatedly contended that he has no interest in pursuing a new stadium option anywhere but San Jose. 

What This Means to Me: If MLB does not allow the A's rights to Santa Clara County and also does not broker an immediate deal with Oakland/Alameda County on a stadium deal, then I believe there will be a cascade effect that will overhaul the entire organization. If MLB says that the A's must find a stadium option in Alameda County without brokering a deal favorable to ownership and within a very tight window of time, I believe that Woff/Fisher will sell the team at the earliest possible juncture.  I just can't see a scenario where businessman Wolff does a polite U-turn and starts from scratch with Oakland and tries to heal all the wounds in the greater Oakland community created by his processes of the past few years, all on his own and with his own cash. The guy is getting older and is looking for a "legacy" project...he is looking to getting a San Jose deal done, retiring and then spending the rest of his years congratulating himself from his owner's box at the brand new ballpark he created. He's not going to labor for 2, 3, 4 or 5+ years and sink more capital into the team just for the sake of trying to work it out with Oakland. It's San Jose, a major immediate handout from MLB and the City of Oakland...or bust.

Now...since Beane is part of the ownership group and is also likely out for a "legacy" project before likely retiring from the GM position for good...I think that any ownership group change will mean the end of the Beane era in Oakland. I just can't see the team getting sold to an entirely new group, maybe buying out Beane's ownership stake and then offering him a job where he would have a diminished role to the one he currently has. Even if they were to retain him as minority owner, I just don't think he'd be open to staying on with the new group. I think he'd say, "No thanks...cash me out. I'm going to buy a soccer team and revolutionize that sport."

What This Means to the Product on the Field: In my opinion, this organization is also "All In" with the current "core" group of players...mainly the pitching staff.  If the front office can't find a way to surround this pitching staff with at least a halfway decent offense that can get this team into the playoffs, then within 2 years I predict that another massive rebuild will be necessary for the organization - especially if a San Jose or Oakland stadium deal does not come together within the next year. I highly, highly doubt that Beane would stick around to guide that particular rebuild process, especially if ownership changed and knowing that he'd probably be stuck in the Coliseum for the rest of his career.

That being said...the clock is already ticking on this "core". It's great that ownership seems committed to keeping most of these guys together, especially Anderson and Suzuki - I also fully expect Cahill to get an extension soon too. The pitching looks to be taken care of for the next few years. What we all know is not taken care of - the offense. We all know that there are some intriguing bats in the mid and upper levels of the minor league system. However, as we saw a few weeks ago, even the best of that crop probably isn't even fully ready for the big leagues (Carter). It might be a full 2 years before those bats on the farm fully establish themselves as legitimate big league hitters.

This pitching staff and this ownership group simply doesn't have that much time, in my opinion. The lip service about "doing everything organically, from within" is great and it really is the only way small-market teams can sustain long-term performance success...but every now and then, an injection is needed from outside the organization (and I'm not talking about steroids). Right now is one of those times.

I do not believe that this influx of offense can or will come via trade...every team will be asking for Oakland pitching in return for any star-level player. As I've said numerous times on this site...there is no such thing as "adequate depth" of starting pitching, especially for this calamity-prone organization. Over the next several seasons, Oakland will need every good, young starting pitcher currently in the higher-levels of the system, which, on first glance would include Anderson, Cahill, Braden, Gio, Mazzaro, Mortensen, Ross and Outman...at the very least. Even with all those arms, a trade of one of those guys would leave the Oakland staff one significant injury away from non-contention.

I guess it's theoretically possible that a deal for a star could be put together for some combination of other prospects, but I just don't think the Dodgers will trade Matt Kemp for Travis Banwart and Travis Buck...do you? Maybe they could do something with Ian Krol and a position player prospect or two, but that would just absolutely devastate the farm system for years. Why not just spend the money (while you have it) and keep the depth and cost-controlled talent?

So I think in terms of free agents...this winter presents both Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth, both of whom - as grover points out in his thread - could be afforded for many, many years by this ownership group under current budgetary constraints and both of whom would provide immediate upgrades to this offense. I'd favor Werth under a shorter contract, but it doesn't really matter all that much. The point is: Beane needs to get one of them this winter. He can and should do this (in my opinion) by simply offering both more money and more years for either player.

Why Hand These Guys a Blank Check?: Basically...because we all know they need to, for a variety of reasons including the home facilities. But I digress.  As I detailed above, I really do think that this window of great pitching needs to be taken advantage of, because it likely won't reoccur for a long, long time. This team needs IMMEDIATE hitting help...not nearly-ready prospects that may or may not "develop" into great hitters. They need guys that can and will hit well in the major leagues. Also, the great pitching will likely be cost controlled for at least a year or two from now, which is why it's very important to spend the money now.

What will happen in 3-4 years when these guys are old and expensive? Well, from the perspective of the A's ownership group...who cares? At that point, either the A's organization will be in a new facility that will allow the organization a little budgetary wiggle room...or, the team will have been sold to a new group who will inherit that particular contract(s). The point is...they need these guys now, and the problem will take care itself later.

*******************************************************************************************************************************

So What Does it All Add Up to and Why Next Year: Well, the clock is ticking both on and off the field for this franchise. At some point later this year or next, the league will issue it's recommendation regarding the stadium issue and T-rights. This will be the absolute most critical development to happen to this franchise since they first moved to Oakland from KC, IMHO. A recommendation for San Jose would probably be the most expeditious for the further development of the team, as there would be a chance a few members of the current team may still be around to open a San Jose stadium. On the other hand...a recommendation to keep T-rights status quo and keep the A's in the East Bay will likely extend any type of new construction of an East Bay stadium at least a few years, making it incredibly unlikely that any current A's will open a new East Bay stadium in the later parts of this decade.

Note: I am about as 100% neutral in the whole Oakland vs. San Jose dispute as anyone. Personally, I like Oakland as a city more, but I also see all of what San Jose has done so far, and goddamn it, I just want a new stadium built as quickly as possible somewhere in Northern California.

For better or worse, any binding development that would keep the A's in the East Bay would likely mean the end of the current ownership group, in my opinion. There is the possibility that a viable stadium option in Oakland is being worked on at this moment behind the scenes...which is all well and great, but if that were the case, and Wolff was privy to it, I don't think it would change things too much. I still don't think he'd want to invest his $500 million in Oakland without some major city and MLB support...which is just not going to happen in this economic climate.

Also in 2011: Billy Beane will become an international celebrity with the release of the Moneyball the movie. I'd imagine that the 2011 A's will receive at least some sort of increased attention or even scrutiny from the national media when the movie comes out...it would be a pretty embarrassing thing if, when that movie comes out, the A's are a sub-.500 team still struggling mightily to score runs. Of course...I doubt Beane would make personnel decisions based on his perception in a movie...but still, good teams generate good PR, and the effect of a good team plus a good movie on the perception (and dare I say value) of this franchise would likely be very positive. So I think from an ownership/marketing perspective, having a good team on the field in 2011 makes a lot of sense.

So What Are you Getting At, Taj?: Basically...that the A's have the money, the need and the long and short-term incentives to be major shoppers in free agency this winter. And especially this winter and especially with two marquee players that will fill major holes on this team for many years AND who could be the piece or pieces that send this team into the playoffs and beyond.

But What About Draft Picks?: See a few notes above...either this team will be good and rich enough to where a lost 2011 draft pick will not severe disadvantage a 2014 or 2015 team...or the entire problem will be someone else's, after an inevitable ownership change. Also...a new CBA will come into effect after 2011 that may reshape the draft as we know it, even allowing teams to trade draft picks...which could theoretically allow the A's to trade for the draft pick (or a 2012 equivalent) that they originally lost for signing a free agent in the first place...what a concept!

So How Will it End?: Really, it seems like no one knows. In a perfect world - speaking purely in terms of the most expeditious way of making the A's as rich and competitive as possible - the A's sign Werth or Crawford this winter, the T-rights issue is resolved this winter or in early 2011, a special election partially funded by MLB is held in San Jose in the Spring of 2011, the public overwhelmingly agrees with the measure, Moneyball hits theaters and euphoria sweeps over the A's, the Coliseum is packed for it's last few years of use as a baseball facility, the A's routinely head to the playoffs during their last 3 years in Oakland, all of the land and infrastructure stuff is resolved and the A's begin playing in Cisco Field in 2014.

Of course...there is just a ton of things that have to go right for that scenario to play out. And at this point, the ONLY thing entirely (or at least pretty close to entirely) under the control of the A's is the first step in that process: the A's can and should sign a marquee free agent this winter.

Unfortunately...the rest of the team's fate is not under the control of the ownership group or us the fans. All that can be done by the A's to take advantage of this great pitching and get some guaranteed offense as soon as possible. I guess we'll just have to see what happens...it's certainly going to be a wild next 15 months!

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Given Selig's parallel desire to have a stadium deal done

I highly doubt the result of the BRC will be to tell Wolff to stick it and provide him with no options. Getting this done would be the rabbit-out-of-a-hat for Selig, and rightfully so.

But, I agree with your general premise: 2011 is the most meaningful year this organization will have in a long time. The A’s need to act and spend like it!

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Aug 27, 2010 2:28 PM PDT reply actions  

Agreed. They've already made public the request to have the SJ-Oak-SF Metro Area

shared between the A’s and Giants. It’s not the sort of thing you make public without a very high degree of confidence that it will be accepted by owners. There’s also no reason for the owners to deny the request. They want a self-sustaining franchise that they don’t have to pay revenue sharing to and they’ll give Wolff all the latitude he wants to make it happen. If he fails to get the SJ stadium built, it will then be his fault and they can make another decision then.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 27, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 27, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Major League

Just to put it out there…

Major League released: 1989
Major League II released: 1994
Progressive Field opened: 1994

…not that this means a damn thing.

by ArunisArun on Aug 27, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

So your saying

Money ball opens in:2011
Ground broken in new stadium :2011
World championship: ?

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Aug 28, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the message in this post but I don't get Beane whining in the Tafoya interview

if things are this hopeful. He seemed resigned to perpetual crappiness.

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 27, 2010 3:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Well...he's probably just venting - in his own way - about the agonizingly slow

process of the Blue Ribbon Committee and all of that. He’s probably thinking to himself, “Damn, I thought that when I became a part owner we were going to get a new stadium and a bigger budget within the first 5 years of ownership.”

But, 5 years later he’s still working in the same office and dealing with the same budget constraints and probably hasn’t been promised that either of those two things will change much anytime soon.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Aug 27, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not in this interview

But Beane and Wolff have not hidden their contempt for the BRC committee timetable (or lack thereof). As Townsend says, “they divided Germany after WWII faster than this!”

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Aug 27, 2010 3:22 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

totally agree

The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler

by Jessse on Aug 28, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I pretty much agree with pretty much everything you said here.

The team does not need, in a literal sense, a new stadium to win. It’d help, but it’s not absolutely necessary.

Just a random thought, but if I were a highly-coveted offensive free agent, I’d ask the A’s a hard question if they pursued me…

“As it stands right now, your offense sucks. Big time. What ELSE are you going to do to win games besides sign me? Or, am I it and I’ll be playing alot of losing 3-2 games for the next several years.”

IOW: Crawford or Werth would be great, but… I think it’s going to take more than just one major upgrade. A maturing Carter would help, of course, but even then…

Bob Geren... Jackie Moore without the personality.

by UncleLeo on Aug 27, 2010 4:24 PM PDT reply actions  

absolutely

i’m not the biggest werth guy, but both of those guys would be fantastic upgrades.

"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball

by flipgatey3 on Aug 27, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

The first time

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Aug 28, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

unsure if Suzuki and Anderson fit into the picture

I think if you’re talking about players who will be playing in the new stadium, you’re looking beyond Suzkuki and Anderson’s contract expires.

Assuming it’ll be 1 year for the decision and appeals to transpire, it could take n years for the Giants to inevitably sue, and work through the process of appeals and mediations and Selig handwringing/not making decisions (which is apparently something he’s really good at). It would then take at least a full year for the environmental planning, local citizens groups suits, etc. Then add in another 2 years to physically build the thing. All in all, Zooks will be collecting MLB-catcher social security by then, Anderson will be playing for the Yankess, and maybe Choice will still be around.

by rollierollieOxenfree on Aug 27, 2010 6:05 PM PDT reply actions  

MLB won't act unilaterally

If/when the deal is announced, the Giants will be part of it. There won’t be a lawsuit. Selig isn’t that stupid.

There was an article in the Chron in mid-July written by Andy Dolich in which he said, point blank, that San Jose was not going to happen, and the A’s would wind up with a new stadium in Oakland.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/11/INEK1EAR1C.DTL

If this is the case, then I think Taj is right: Beane and Wolff are gone.

by richwol1 on Aug 28, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Man, I'd take that in a second

if it meant keeping the A’s in Oakland, Beane and Wolff can get the hell out. See ’ya. Thanks for …. well, nothing, really.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Aug 28, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

There was an article the week before that said the exact opposite

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/04/IN281E5BOU.DTL

It was just an opportunity for each camp to present their viewpoints. I don’t think Stone’s view is any more valuable than Dolich’s is: they are both simply boosters of their plans.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Aug 28, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was out of town that week and just caught up on the Dolich the other day

I still think there won’t be any lawsuit - that MLB will not act until the Giants are on board.

by richwol1 on Aug 29, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did I set the table for you or what?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Aug 27, 2010 6:08 PM PDT reply actions   3 recs

Green

Want

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Aug 27, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes...you definitely did.

I will fess up to the fact that I read your post and then 2 minutes later started writing this piece. You are my muse.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Aug 27, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

So I'm amusing to you

Like a clown…

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Aug 28, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, don't act all offended, muppet.

You know that you’ve been milking that clown act your whole career. It’s gotten you places others have only dreamed of. Here, for instance, you fuzzy blue devil, you.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Aug 28, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't really disagree with any of this

I’ve pointed out on the other thread that I think big free-agent signs are money-losers for the franchise in its current moribund state, which just increases the importance of trying to give Selig (/whoever else is involved in the whole territorial-rights business) a kick in the pants. If the team can realistically project ticket-base growth through a move and a new facility, then maybe those numbers that I posited look significantly more favorable and they can actually justify a contract or two that will help the team on the field right now. Otherwise, it’s a couple years of not-quite-good-enough and then either more rebuilding or a steady slide into Pirates-land.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Aug 27, 2010 7:18 PM PDT reply actions  

It's in the best interest...

of both baseball abstractly and the ownership fraternity directly for the A’s to get off the revenue sharing teet as quickly as possible. I think at this point it just makes too much sense for the A’s to move to San Jose and start paying a portion of AT & T Park’s mortgage as a subsidy for “re-anexxing” Santa Clara County.

A lot of people, it seems, seem to think that there is a big “Major League” like conspiracy internally in the A’s organization to drive down the value of the Oakland brand so that Selig would be more inclined to grant the move to San Jose…

For the reasons stated above, I think that’s just stupid. I think other owners – the ones who will ultimately decide to allow/disallow the move – don’t much care about “brand perception” and will be more inclined to take Wolff’s side in things if it seems like he’s working to put the best product on the field and really seems to be maneuvering for the best deal for major league baseball…not just for his group. Which I think will be the ultimate trump card in this whole mess…what’s in the best interest of this select group of billionaires? To have a giant albatross of an organization, sucking off of revenue sharing and searching for a new home for the next 10 years? Or orchestrating a term-subsidy for one ownership group while getting another group off of revenue sharing and into a brand new facility that can generate league-wide revenues as quickly as possible?

The answer (should) be the latter…I highly doubt that Selig is spending much time at all educating the other owners about the intricacies of Bay Area culture. IF he’s smart, he just showing some cold hard spreadsheets about population, per capita income, all the work San Jose has done so far, etcetera…

P.S. – You really didn’t disagree with any of this piece? I’m shocked…

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Aug 27, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know, right?

Honestly, I usually look forward to your pieces because there’s almost invariably something in them that I strongly agree with and something in them that I strongly disagree with. So on one side or the other, there’s almost always some kind of interesting discussion.

If I had to quibble I guess I’d say that I think the 2011 draft pick is more useful than you give him credit for (and thus might, depending on exactly who the Type A free agent is, be worth keeping rather than signing someone) because he’s potentially a big trading chip at the 2012 deadline and/or the 2013 offseason. But that’s kind of splitting hairs.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Aug 28, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, at this point, the chips are REALLY stacked against Oakland

Placating the Giants is likely not worth the continued decade-plus of revenue-sharing checks the A’s would be all-but-entitled to should they stay in Oakland. SJ is the fastest way to more a durable revenue stream.

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Aug 28, 2010 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, absolutely yes!

Even though I’m a SJ resident I still would like to see the A’s get a new stadium in Oakland. But it just ain’t gonna happen, so………….San Jose is by far the best and smartest option for the A’s and their future.

The area in downtown where the proposed stadium would go is already bubbling with new condos, flats, and highrises, lots of good places to eat, right next to Caltrain, and the surrounding neighborhood is really nice.

And the weather is almost always beautiful during the spring-fall. I went on a huge rant on this about a month ago in another thread because I felt like the ownership/management was doing the fans a disservice by not getting any bats to surround this awesome pitching; I felt the young talent was being wasted, and the future was looking bleak despite payroll being available starting in 2001 due to Beane’s inactivity to help the big league club. Wolff also was being rather quiet which made it seem even more like the ship was sinking even faster that I thought. I digress…..see? So yes the time to act is now and get this act on the road, literally!

Who knows? But I’m glad you put up this post Taj and cool to see it on the FP as well. Cheers and go A’s!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Aug 28, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is what I've been saying for years...

…if the other owners can be convinced it is in THEIR best financial interest, the Giants will be told to STFU.

I do disagree with Taj on one point…

A lot of people, it seems, seem to think that there is a big "Major League" like conspiracy internally in the A’s organization to drive down the value of the Oakland brand…

I absolutely do believe there is a conscious effort to portray Oakland as unworkable so Selig and/or MLB will view their departure more favorably. This kind of manipulation for moves is not unheard of in MLB history, either.

I should clarify that I am not ready to say Wolff et al are blatantly and actively trying to undermine and “destroy” the A’s in Oakland, but I do see them purposely not promoting the team or doing anything to help attract fans or even keep the fans they already have. A more passive-aggressive approach to destroying the team, if you will.

Bob Geren... Jackie Moore without the personality.

by UncleLeo on Aug 28, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Aug 28, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suppose but that could easily be chalked up to the uncertainty of the team's future

Why would they spend money on a product they might just get rid of in 2 years?

!#%&$#@&%&% antioxidants! - pam

by cuppingmaster on Aug 28, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because they can sell a successful team for more than an unsuccessful one

It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.

by Englishmajor on Aug 29, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bingo!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Aug 30, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

The A's have lost 13 games this year so far by 1 run.

Not saying that we win all of them with some offense, but to me this makes the need to upgrade even more urgent. Like the author said, we have the pitching to make a serious run in 2011 but bats are needed. It’s a shame that the most exciting time for me as an A’s fan is the offseason. Hopefully 2011 turns that around.

The worst person to run from is yourself.

by noesis78 on Aug 27, 2010 7:37 PM PDT reply actions  

bball-ref has our record at 20-15 in 1 run games

I think the more infuriating thing to look at would be our record where our pitching gives up under 3 runs and we lose. I really dont want to know what our record is in those games…..if only we had a bat…

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Aug 28, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

You make an interesting case, Taj.

I can kind of see the logic whereby if the owners are ever going to blow it all to go for it, 2011 will be the logical year to do it, with respect to the meta-politics of the whole situation.

There’s one point, though, where I think you’re way off base, and that’s the Moneyball movie. You’re attaching waaaay too much importance to that. Even if the movie is a hit, which is by no means certain, it’ll just be a temporary blip in news stories and paraphernalia sales. But the idea that it’s going to make any lasting dent in the team’s fundamental economic situation I find laughable.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Aug 27, 2010 11:48 PM PDT reply actions  

That's understandable out of context.

But when you put the release of the movie and the release of the Blue Ribbon Report findings together of a period of let’s say, 8 months…there might me a synergistic effect one way or the other.

A. If the BRC comes out, finds a way to get the A’s to San Jose and the movie comes out and is a hit…the A’s brand will be pretty sky high at that point…

(Just think of what the Dallas Braden perfect game did for this team for the first month or two of this season….the above situation would dwarf that in attention since “Brangelina” will be in the articles)

B. If the BRC comes out, says T-rights remain as-is, and the movie comes out and gains any mainstream attention at all…it will likely create some form of movement (or at least increased chatter) about keeping the A’s in Oakland for sentimental reasons, tied a lot to the Moneyball story, which will sure to be a hot topic.

You see…to me, it’s not the power of the movie or the BRC announcement individually that are overly powerful…it’s the fact that both could be released to the world within months of each other that could really magnify the effect of both. It’s a timing issue, not necessarily an “importance” issue.

I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!

by Taj Adib on Aug 28, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Just think of what the Dallas Braden perfect game did for this team"

It had all of us in a paroxysm of A’s joy for about three weeks. And outside of our circle it was barely noticed.

Even a blockbuster movie, which I don’t think any of us expects Moneyball to be, is all over the news for one month then forgotten the next.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Aug 28, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

That movie will be awful

I still have no idea why they made it, the Zaillian script was awesome but they scrapped it for some fantasy garbage. I have no idea how they are going to make this film entertaining.

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Aug 28, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ya I'm not excited for it either.

There’s bound to be annoying people claiming “moneyball doesn’t work” too, which I’m sick of hearing/dealing with.

A's Fan in Sweden

by travdog6 on Aug 28, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Same here.

Unless Pitt-as-Beane is going to turn into an axe murderer, I fail to see how they can make this interesting.

Bob Geren... Jackie Moore without the personality.

by UncleLeo on Aug 28, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

He could play him as Early Grayce.

“Is it just me, or did this trip go downhill since we ran out of Lucky Lager.”

"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway

by SubLime on Aug 29, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I miss Lucky Lager.

Someday in a dirty thread, I’ll tell the story about the Lucky Lager Pee Bombs.

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Aug 30, 2010 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I miss that stuff.

I had to go look it up to see if it is still being made. It is, but is distributed very regionally, primarily in western Canada.

Bob Geren... Jackie Moore without the personality.

by UncleLeo on Aug 30, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's good to hear.

In the years since they quit distributing it in California, I’ve been quenching my Lucky cravings with Red Stripe. It’s sort of a sad tactile substitute.

Bob Geren was born in a suburban apartment complex he built with his own two hands.

by QueenOfCansAndJars on Aug 31, 2010 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is a pretty good take.

I find it all the more frustrating that the A’s have been totally inactive on the waiver/trade market this season. They could, at the very least, have put in some claims on some guys this month to essentially purchase supplemental draft picks. I agree they need to improve from without—and without making trades—but the draft and international scouting/acquisition are just as critical a vehicle.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 28, 2010 9:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Not totally inactive.

A’s traded Demel for Jackson and Fox for Wolf this season. From waivers, we picked up Jeff Larish.

I realize these aren’t the big-ticket items some fans were hoping for, but it’s more activity than some teams have had.

If the start of the season counts, there was also the trade of Gregorio Petit for Edwar Ramirez, and picking up Jai Miller off waivers.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Aug 28, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Be still my heart.

Bob Geren... Jackie Moore without the personality.

by UncleLeo on Aug 28, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, there is that.

It pretty much speaks for itself. In any case, I was speaking more of the notion of claiming a guy like Manny Ramirez or somebody that’s going to be a Type A at the end of the year, so you can pocket the draft picks if/when he walks.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 28, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Claiming Manny would not be buying comp picks.

He would assuredly accept arbitration since nobody is giving him 20M next year, and then you’re paying Manny 20M next year.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Aug 28, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

The 80% rule doesn't apply to players with his service time.

He wouldn’t get an award nearly that large, though he would probably get a sizable one. I wouldn’t cry if he accepted one, either.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 28, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm

While it’s hard to say with certainty and a lot would depend on the salary figures submitted, I would expect him to get at least $15M from an arbitrator, keeping in mind that these guys are lawyers and not baseball experts. He’s not nearly that good anymore.

I would not consider offering him arbitration to be a serious option.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Aug 29, 2010 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Me neither

Manny at $15M+ vs. Cust at $4M is a no-brainer.

And I think Manny would actually get more than that in arby.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Aug 29, 2010 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Depends which Cust you get.

He’s no model of consistency.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Aug 29, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

neither is Manny Ramirez.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Aug 29, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great read Taj.

I will be very sad if Billy doesn’t pick up a ‘legit’ hitter/s and comes w/ just the usual grab bag of misfits and reclamation projects.

COMPLETELY OT:
Anyone know of a good spot to watch A’s games in downtown Oakland?
Bars okay, just trying to find something local, getting tired of riding to North Oakland.

by brian.only on Aug 28, 2010 3:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Would love to see this guy pose in the dirt in right field

He’ll have more foul territory to roam in too.

Sort of like Jesus looking into the heavens.

The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast

by Hit4TheCycle on Aug 28, 2010 3:37 PM PDT reply actions  

UGH - from Rivercats Facebook...
Sacramento River Cats BREAKING NEWS: Chris Carter has been placed on the disabled list with a left thumb sprain. Outfielder Jermaine Mitchell has been called up from Single-A Stockton.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Aug 28, 2010 4:12 PM PDT reply actions  

On Twitter

The message was shortened at Outfielder Jermaine…

I thought it was about to say Dye.

The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast

by Hit4TheCycle on Aug 28, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

he did... at the same time. The ankle is more of a day to day thing though.

What we’re asking is for people to stop pretending that ipse dixit counts as a "source." When you make a claim about baseball, you should be willing to put some reasonable amount of effort into explaining why it’s correct if someone asks you to. That’s basic respect for the other poster. - PT

by designatedforassignment on Aug 30, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just dont

See how all the talk about upgrades is offseason focuses on getting 1 good bat. Crawford or Werth would be fantastic, but I think we’ve seen how the rest of the flailing offense drags good jitters way down here (along with the stadium itself). I think we need 3-4 moderate upgrades in bats rather than 1 big ones. Look what ibanez did in phi coming off of good but not great years and what Burrell has done in sf this year. These guys are a far cry from signing over the hill guys we used to sign. Seems like kouz was this type of a trade, but he’s been dragged down. With a few other guys that can hit like he can around him, I think you have a legit 3-4-5 again. Not that it’s a possibility but imagine crisp,Barton,ibanez,Burrell, kouz, Suzuki…unthaws a nice 1-6 and auk could even slide to 7 with a good DH signing (dye?)

I miss Eric Plunk

by chuckcheeze on Aug 28, 2010 4:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Sorry for the spelling im on an ipad

Last sentence.. That’s a nice 1-6 and auk could even slide…

I miss Eric Plunk

by chuckcheeze on Aug 28, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't know they could, but I could be wrong

I hate Bob Geren and his peanut brain so much -- lenscrafters

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 29, 2010 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Too bad Jeremy wasn't an auk.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Aug 29, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

He was more of a booby.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Aug 29, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

True. And not the good kind.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Aug 29, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

your defense would be a major problem there

Ibanez and Burrell are both “left fielders,” and I’m using that term very loosely. If you add a DH to that lineup, you’re putting one of them in right, which means you’d have the worst defensive outfield in baseball, even if they were flanked by Crisp.

I agree with you that the team’s lineup would look a lot better with a legitimate 3-4-5 in the order. The challenge is finding guys who aren’t big liabilities defensively, and who are affordable.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Aug 29, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Grrrrr

Zuk… Zuk could slide.

I miss Eric Plunk

by chuckcheeze on Aug 28, 2010 4:58 PM PDT reply actions  

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