The Shopping Lists of the Contenders
by grover on Jul 8, 2010 4:53 AM PDT
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July is a week old and the play-off races are beginning to take shape. For the fourth consecutive year the A’s are on the outside looking in and if the recent series sweep by the visiting Yankees proved anything it’s that the 2010 A’s just don’t have the talent to seriously compete for a title. I realize there’s almost a half season left to play but when you look at the line-up you see that there isn’t anyone who has seriously underperformed their expected production; that there isn’t anyone who seems poised to suddenly break out… there simply isn’t anyone on the offensive side of the ledger ready to step up and do more to help the A’s win more games in the second half of the year. The defense hasn’t been as good as expected and the bullpen, aside from Bailey and Breslow, is fairly weak.
So forget about Oakland winning the AL West in 2010.
What I’m going to do in this post is look at this year’s contenders and see what pieces they might be missing. For the purposes of this intellectual exercise any team within 6 games of the division leader (and, obviously, the division leaders themselves) are considered "contenders" at this time. Why 6 games? Because I started the research on this piece a few days ago, back before the Phillies and Angels started to fall apart and I’m not about to toss aside that extra bit of work.
AL East
NY Yankees – Needs: LHRP; #1 SP
The motherfucking NY Yankees and their $213 million payroll (not including pay-offs to umpires) don’t really need another SP; they’re nosing around Cliff Lee simply because they perceive the Seattle Mariners as another one of their AAA teams.
Tampa Bay Rays (2.0 GB) – Needs: DH; #1 SP; Middle Infielder (?)
The Rays appear to be pushing hard for Cliff Lee and from what I can tell they aren’t interested in any other SP. It’s Lee or Bust for the Rays and they’ve got the talent to make that deal happen if they choose to pay the price. I think they need another MI… most of the talking heads make no mention of that area as being a need. They could definitely use another bat.
Boston Red Sox (4.5 GB) – Needs: C; CF; LF; 2B; LHRP; SP(?)
Boston needs to get healthy. They’ll look at Cliff Lee simply because the Rays and Yankees are looking at him. I don’t see them having much interest in a back-end SP type.
NL East
Atlanta Braves – Needs: LF
The Braves want to add a RH power bat. I realize that anyone who has just started following the A’s over the past couple years won’t know what those words mean.
NY Mets (3.0 GB) – Needs: SP; RF(?); 2B; RHRP
The Mets are also pursuing Cliff Lee but don’t seem likely to limit them selves to his forbidden love. If rejected, they will pursue another. I don’t see why the Mets wouldn’t try to improve upon the Alex Cora/Luis Castillo platoon at 2B. But they’re probably hoping Carlos Beltran comes back from his knee problems and makes the OF issue go away.
Philadelphia Phillies (6.0 GB) – Needs: SP; LHRP; 2B/3B; C(?)
The Phillies are in danger of fading into oblivion. Highest priority is their rotation (guess they shouldn’t have traded Cliff Lee) and they don’t have the prospects to bid for the high end guys. They have Placido Polanco, he can handle either 2B or 3B, allowing the Phillies to find someone at either position that won’t cost a lot.
AL Central
Detroit Tigers – Needs: C; SP; RP
Detroit is looking for the best relief arms available.
Chicago White Sox (1.0 GB) – Needs: 3B; SP; C; LF; IF
With Jake Peavey likely lost for the season the White Sox are likely to ramp up their interest in Cliff Lee. Kenny Williams seems intent on finding a LF slugger to add to the mix.
Minnesota Twins (1.5 GB) – Needs: Cliff Lee; SS
The Twins set the bar in the Cliff Lee Sweepstakes: CF Aaron Hicks and C Wilson Ramos. In a word… Huh.
NL Central
Cincinnati Reds – Needs: SP; LF; RHRP
The chic dark horse to land Cliff Lee. I think they need an extra RH bullpen arm.
St. Louis Cardinals (3.0) – Needs: 2B/SS; SP
They might also stand pat and wait for Kyle Lohse to get right but my guess is they’ll pursue a back-end SP.
AL West
Texas Rangers – Needs: SP
They too pursue Cliff Lee.
Slegna (5.5 GB) – Needs: SP; 1B
They are one of the few teams no one mentions when discussing Cliff Lee. Ergo, they’ve already stolen some of his genetic material and are attempting to clone him.
NL West
San Diego Padres – Needs: CF; LF; SS; SP
Good SP, great bullpen arms and one superstar hitter. I hope the A’s are taking notes.
Colorado Rockies (3.0 GB) – Needs: 2B; 1B
Todd Helton: 246/336/310 while playing your home games in Coors Field?
Los Angeles Dodgers (3.0) – Needs: SP; RP
Whatever moves they make, they need to the other guy to pick up the tab. That means they need to give up more better prospects if they want to improve their team.
There is a twist to this story, though.
Instead of regaling you with my keen insights into the farm systems of the aforementioned teams I’m going to tell you that the wants and needs of these 17 teams are completely and totally secondary to the real matter at hand.
Who are the players that the A’s want to keep and build around, both in the near and long term? In the short term, do the A’s want to hold on to Ellis and Crisp for 2011? And if they don’t, who’ll replace them in the starting line-up? The A’s have been attempting to sign Kurt Suzuki to a long term deal for months with no success. Should they continue with those negotiations even if it ends with them signing Suzuki to an over-priced deal? Would it be better to trade Suzuki while he’s cheap and potentially in demand; especially when you consider that his performance has been slightly below-average in 2010 according to Fangraphs?
Craig Breslow is under team control for 3 more years, is now the time to part with him? Ryan Sweeney seems to have lost most if not all of his defensive mojo, taking with it the bulk of his value. I can see where it would be difficult (if not impossible) to part with Cahill and Anderson but what about Gio? Is Andrew Bailey a better trade asset than a closer?
These are the questions that need to be answered about every player on the A’s current 25 man roster before we even begin to speculate on who could get traded where and for whom.
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This has no useful information in it for me.
There is nothing in regards to squirrels or sock puppets here, nor are there any statistics for me to mock. You’ve failed to please me, blue fuzzy one. No tummy rubs for you.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
I accept your shunning with grace and humility
And secure in the knowledge that I don’t require natural male enhancement.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Nor did he say that he doesn't require unnatural male enhancement.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Which reminds me...
I think it’s very brave of you to share your own personal story of the dangers of implants.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Yes, I want others to learn from my misfortunes.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I could never stay angry with you.
Who’s a good blue furry monster?! Who’s a good furry blue monster?! You are! Yes, you are!!
[rubs grover’s fuzzy blue tummy]
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 8, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm trying to figure out if someone catching you watching porn
would be more embarrassing than catching you watching Play With Me Sesame.
What about two TV's? porn on one, sesame street on the other?
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 8, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Sheets will go
With a number of starters out with injuries on contenders, Sheets’ 2.79 ERA in his last 4 starts will fool some GM’s, or at least convince them that a “veteran presence” could be useful. If Ben can put up 2 more decent starts before the trade deadline, I think he’ll bring something interesting in return.
Pair Sheets with Mark Ellis and we could get something pretty decent. I could see the Mets, Cardinals, Phillies and White Sox interested.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 8, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
And eat some salary.
The A’s have payroll flexibility. USE IT.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
The A's have said they don't need to shed payroll...
thereby, eat ALL OF IT, and bring back someone interesting.
Guys to go
Sweeney, Bailey, and Gio are all guys that to me, ought to fetch us something of MLB-ready or near-MLB ready value now.
Sweeney will be obviated when Carter and Taylor (hopefully) make it, anyway. Might as well give him some time to rest his knees this series and over the ASB and then package him away. On a team with no power, a guy who we have nicknamed “swingles” has no place here, despite great defense
I think Bailey’s good but not great. Devine will make it back, or we’ll find someone else. He should go, too.
Gio is an enigma. His ERA has gone down every year, he’s walking less guys, yet there is always some sort of unease when he’s on the mound. I haven’t quite put my finger on it. But, he has huge talent and he may turn out to be awesome. Send him.
Suzuki, Breslow, and Crisp stay. Rosales should take the place of Ellis.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
I'll tell you what the problem with Gio is.
He can’t handle the psychology. Gio gets rattled and doesn’t calm down. In a way it’s kinda like Zito, only I think Zito was the reverse. He tried to be too relaxed and it would backfire on him.
You know what I think? (because you were obviously wondering)
He is still just a kid, immature. Give him a season or two and I will bet he comes around. He has amazing stuff. The times I have met him, and met Cahill or Anderson, there is an obvious air of immaturity about Gio, where Anderson and Cahill carry themselves as years beyond their age. Patience Grasshopper.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 8, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree.
One of the advantages to having a veteran on the staff like Sheets.
by LoneStranger on Jul 8, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that next year Gio is going to break out
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
other H
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
QOTM
(Where’s the PoppyBot 5000 when you need it?)
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 8, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
"PoppyBot" should be the new "QOTM"
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
That's a good idea.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 8, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I was going with other things with H that have break outs.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
or he could become the next Oliver Perez.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
If Gio is a huge talent and may be awesome, he's exactly the wrong person to be traded by
a team with 15 average to slightly below average players. If they were a player away from a pennant, you might trade Gio for that player if you think he’s got upside. You only trade Gio now if you don’t think he has much upside if you’re the A’s.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
agree
Anderson, Cahill, Gio is going to be looking sweet in 2 years. Hopefully, they won’t be leading the league is “lowest run support”.
low run support IS a problem
It really wouldn’t matter all that much if Anderson, Gio, Cahill, Sheets, and Duke were all pitching at their peak. If we struggle to score more than 3 runs a game, we are likely to lose more than we win.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Definately should try the more offense strategy
Anyone read the Posnanski entry a while back?
The Five Run System
Basic theory: if you dominate all games where you score five or more runs, history says your pennant chances are excellent.
We’re about the only team in the majors debunking this trend. We’re awesome at winning with 5+ runs yet still suck overall. Maybe this whole pitching and ZERO offense really doesn’t work. I wouldn’t mind a shift toward more offense and less pitching.
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack
People forget that along with the Big Three in the aughts
We had guys like Dye, Tejada, Chavez who could really pound the ball. It wasn’t just give the ball to one of those guys and you’ll win every time. No, we had a very good offensive team as well.
What I don’t have time to do, but would love to see, is how many runs we score when taking out the outliers? In other words, how many runs per game did we score in the middle 80% of games when ranked by A’s runs scored? I’m betting we suck pretty bad on that 80%, which is probably a better measure of our offense than it as a whole.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I was under the impression that you
get a better read on an offense when you DON’T remove the outliers.
That is certainly the implication of Bill James’ Pythagorean equation.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Could be,
I haven’t read a lot of his stuff. Coming from a science background, though, I know the measurement of most systems is a lot truer when you remove the worst outliers. For example, I don’t think that 14 runs against the Pirates the other night should really count.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The Q-test stuff only works if the outlier is so significantly outside that it skews the data incorrectly.
14 runs against the Pirates isn’t that far outside, as we’ve scored 10 and 11 before more than once. And besides, 162 games is a large enough sample that one occurrence of 14 shouldn’t change much in the end.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
You've beat the trade pitching for hitting drum for a while now.
It makes sense if the A’s had a surplus of starting pitchers or ones without questionable injury histories. Unfortunately, we don’t.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
You're right, BUT
our problems with pitching are far FAR outweighed by the problems with our hitting. IMO, we can afford to take a hit on pitching to upgrade the offense.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I really don't think so.
Anderson has injury issues. Braden has injury issues. Cahill and Mazzaro have already had injury issues. Your depth is basically TJS-recovering Outman, Ross, and Mortenson before you reach the dregs like Bonser, Banwart, etc. Why do you think the A’s have been stocking up on the Jamey Wrights and John Halamas of the world? Because there is no depth there.
You know what’s the most attractive quality about Gio? He’s the only member of this staff who has shown an ability to stay healthy. That alone (well plus the enormous upside) makes him untouchable in my eyes.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
THIS
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
There's depth, it's just years away from the majors/
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Wait.
Can you get me a link for this? I’ve looked at ‘09 RiverCats and A’s transactions and I can’t find any mention of him going on the DL or suffering an injury.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
he was hurt in ST which is why he wasn't actually on the DL I don't think since Sace hadn't started yet
This is why Outman/Cahill made the rotation when Gallagher (sucking/attitude) and Gio (owie) didn’t
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah ok.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Addendum: It was naiive of me to assume that any A's prospect/player didn't have some sort of injury, past or present.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
We don't have to trade all of them
Just one, and to me, that one is Gio. Obviously, we’ll agree to disagree on what the problems are on this team. I happen to think that it won’t matter about any of those guys unless we score runs. I hope, though, that Carter and Taylor come up and mash and all is fine and we don’t have to trade any of them.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm saying we can't afford to trade any of them.
I fully agree that the offense is a major problem on this team. I don’t agree that trading the pitching we have for hitting is the way to solve that problem, if the end result you want is a good, competitive team.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I agree with this
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Then you want to tear down and rebuild or sign Crawford?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Why does it have to be one or the other?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
crawfords going to sign onto a teardown?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm asking why are our only options signing Carl Crawford and trying to contend, or rebuilding.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
OK, if not Crawford then you want to acquire
another big immediate source of offense somehow?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Why does it have to be immediate?
The FA for 2012 look a lot better than this year’s. Why not wait till then?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Because I want to win now!
now, now, NOW!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Would you be happy with a victory over the Angels today?
Mike Scioscia must be insanely pissed right now.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I hope he pitches Juan Rivera in protest
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't follow other teams.
What is Scioscia pissed about this time?
But to answer the question: Yes, that would make me happy.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Cliff Lee -> Rangers.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Devine is toast
Losing Bailey would hurt in the immediate but I think it would be possible to eventually replace him.
But not with Devine. At this point, I wouldn’t be willing to bring him back next year unless his salary remains static.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Who, Devine?
I don’t see any way he can get a raise when he DID NOT THROW A PITCH.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
He's not on the MLB DL accruing service time, is he?
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 8, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He's on the 60 day, isn't he?
Guys on the 60 day don’t accrue service time.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
That is factually incorrect
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it? They're not on the 40 man roster when they're on the 60 day DL.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
You are wrong
Disabled List
A club may place an injured player on the 15- or 60-day disabled list by submitting to the commissioner’s office an application, accompanied by a diagnosis from the club physician. A player on either list continues to accumulate Major League service time, but he must remain inactive for a minimum of 15 or 60 days, with Day 1 beginning after the player’s last game appearance. A club may make the placement of a player on either list retroactive to the last date on which he played, up to a maximum backdating of 10 days. A club may send a player on the DL to the minor leagues for a rehab assignment lasting a maximum of 20 days for position players and 30 days for pitchers.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
wasn't that topic in the begining of the year with Cahill?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
yes the second time Beane fucked up his service time
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
This is incorrect
The A’s optioned Cahill to Sac on April 20th and recalled him on the 30th; they “bought” themselves an extra year.
Remember, Cahill was on the active roster when he got hurt, you can’t option a player to the minors and then DL him.
The monster at the end of this blog.
That is only 10 days grover, you need to be in the minors 20 days or its counted as a full year.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Shit... I was thinking 20 days to fire the option
Forgot that clause.
So the A’s haven’t tacked on the extra year, but that still doesn’t justify your comment that Beane made a second mistake regarding Cahill’s service time. Mortensen had pitched on the 27th and Mazzaro the 29th. Those are the only other two pitchers the A’s could have called up in place of Cahill to make the April 30 start.
To tap Mortensen for the job the A’s would have had to keep him from pitching on the 27th. Depending on what time they placed Anderson on the DL that could have been possible as a last minute thing. The downside is Clay would of been on the bench for 8-9 days between starts and the River Cats would have had to scramble to find a SP for the 27th.
That’s a whole lot of trouble just to get Mortensen pitching for Oakland on the 30th. The logistics are a mess and with two other options available (Mazzaro & Cahill) there’s not a lot of sense in going this route.
So Mazzaro vs. Cahill for the April 30 start.
The turn-of-the-rotation issue isn’t in play here. It wouldn’t take much disruption in anyones rotation/cycle to have Mazzaro wait to pitch until the 30th. Yes, the 30th did fall on Cahill’s “day” but the Cats had had a day off and Cahill could have pitched the 29th (in place of Mazzaro) on a full 4 days rest.
The deciding point boils down to performance. Vin’s command had been lousy his previous start and his pitching shaky in general in his first few starts with the River Cats. Injuries would force the A’s hand in a few weeks, but at the time of this decision I think it’s clear the organization believed that Cahill was the better pitcher. They picked the best pitcher available to them at the time.
I know you disagree with that strategy; but I disagree with using a lesser player just to screw a better player out of some money.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Or they could have not given him a rehab start and optioned him directly
or they could have just optioned him to AAA before they put him on the dl in ST. Or they could have not called him up last year. Or they could have had Ross pitch it.
Plenty of ways around it
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
They couldn't option him down pre-DL
Cahill gets 400K when he’s on the big league roster. He gets 70K if he’s down in the minors. He was injured while technically on the big league roster. If the A’s optioned him down to the minors and then DL’ed him for an injury that occurred while with the big league club then the Union could file a grievance against the team. A big league ballplayer’s salary is entitled to receive his salary while on the DL. Your move would essentially deny Cahill his entitled big league salary.
And when you have to dig up “or they could have not called him up last year” then there aren’t so many ways around it.
The monster at the end of this blog.
They would have been able to make a legit arg that Gio beat him for the 5th starter
they could have optioned him instead of rehab starts or had ross pitch it which you both conviently ignore
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
And as soon as it broke that Cahill was injured
The Union comes calling.
Tyson Ross might have been an option to start on the 30th… at least until Geren had him pitch on the 28th. (And lets take a moment to appreciate the argument that Ross, a pitcher who shouldn’t have been in Oakland at the time, is your current suggestion for how the A’s could have kept Cahill in Sac.)
Asking Ross to bounce back and pitch on the 30th would be putting him at risk and your other idea would have had the A’s try to hide an injury from the Union. Could you be a little less pro-management, please?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Cahill lost the job before the injury
so no im not trying to hide anything. Gio pitched better than he did
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
The injury was diagnosed while he was on the big league roster
That takes precedence over the performance issue.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Yeah, grover is right here.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
the injury was announced after Gio had won the job
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter
Cahill was on the big league roster when the injury happened.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I like the post, grover. Here are my two cents:
Long-term keepers (3/4 years):
- Anderson
- Cahill
- Suzuki
- Barton
- Bailey
I think this is a decent core to build off of…Anderson and Cahill should be fronting the rotation beginning next season. I think Suzuki’s offensive numbers will rebound later this season – he won’t BABIP .240 all-season. He’s arguably one of the best power hitters currently on the team, which is both sad and encouraging, if he can get up to consistent 20-homer seasons. His defense is great and seems to command the staff well. Bailey’s K-numbers are way down so far this season, but he’s got a strong track record of getting swings and misses throughout his career, and once he starts using his cutter and curveball more, his K’s will go up. He’s got great control and should be able to stay a workhorse for awhile and consistent as far as relievers go. Barton’s a bit of a streaky hitter and won’t ever slug over .450, but I think he’s a good fit for this team in the mid-term as a good defender and a guy who will always help the team by getting on-base.
Short-term keepers (1/2 years):
- Mazzaro
- Braden
- Gio
- Pennington
- Crisp
- Rosales
- Kouzmanoff
This list is mostly guys that may not be long-term building blocks, but will still be useful to building a solid team in the next few years. Pennington has impressed so far and should be a decent SS option until/if Grant Green assumes the role at the big league level. Crisp’s trade value is not that great and if he stays healthy for any length of time, could be a real asset for this team. Rosales is a great utility dude…I wouldn’t mind seeing Kouz go, but who the hell would replace him?
Trade fodder:
- Sheets
- Ellis
- Sweeney
- Raj
I’ve had it with Sweeney…I realize he’s been a great defender in the past, but not to the degree that UZR would make him out to be. His knees are obviously screwing with him and he’s never going to hit for power because he’s never going to ever pull the ball consistently. This team needs a couple of legit boppers at some point in the field…RF seems a prime spot for that. Ellis has been great for this team…but he’s getting fairly old and his defense has declined somewhat in recent years and he’s always one infield single away from losing a month with a hamstring issue. THere are several contenders that could use a decent 2B option right now…I’d shop him around and go with Rosales or even Tolleson or Sogard from AAA at some point. Raj is useless if he doesn’t get on base.
So that’s my two cents…
I’d love for this team to make some trades soon and strive to get a young-ish 3B option or power hitting corner OFer.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jul 8, 2010 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I don't see Sweeney or Raj bringing anything in return
What is promising about Sheets, and possibly Ellis, is that they could solve a problem for a contender. Any team that has a problem that Sweeney or Raj could solve, probably isn’t in contention. I thought that Raj was on his way back to last year’s performance, but when Coco came back and hit like crazy, it put Raj back on the bench. He just doesn’t seem as productive as a part-timer. Unfortunately, no sane GM will take Coco and his avian bone syndrome.
Let’s face it – no one wants our spare parts – actually, no one wants our starters, who would be spare parts for most teams.
Bailey – young, effective, under team control for several years. Until an obvious replacement is at hand, I leave him alone.
Agreed.
I’d shop Ellis and Sheets for the next few weeks and aim to get nearly-ready power prospect at RF or 3rd base.
Besides that, I’d agree that Sweeney or Raj won’t get much in return. At the very most, they might be throw-ins to a trade involving a more attractive piece, like Mazzaro or Breslow or something.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
there is no way 1/3 of a year of a sucky Sheets and 1.5 years of Ellis
gets us anything near-MLB ready.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Depends
Sheets + Cash (which is the deal the Dodgers and maybe the Rangers are looking for) could net the A’s a near-MLB ready B- prospect. I’d actually prefer a higher ceiling guy in the lower minors.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Wonder if LA would give up DeJesus now that Dee Gordon is their top SS prospect
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Dee Gordon is currently shitting the bed BTW
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but lower minors = better chance of fizzling out, right?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure... more green they've got to cover
My reasoning is the A’s have enough talent already in the system to produce some solid starting caliber players (Barton, Suzuki, Rosales, Pennington when he’s remembering which end of the bat to swing with, plus the pitching) but they don’t have the star power bats.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Rajai might.
At least he has a couple of elite skills to go with the lifeless bat. Sweeney is a guy they should slot into Gabe Gross’ role when he is released. They’re practically identical players, Gross’ suckitude this year notwithstanding.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Carlos Gomez netted JJ Hardy last offseason
and as much as I hate on Rajai, Carlos Gomez wishes he was as good as Rajai.
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Gomez is younger and cheaper
Plus, heading into 2010 there was still reason to hope on Gomez.
The monster at the end of this blog.
not cheaper
they were both under the same amount of control
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see...
…the team being worse off without them.
by HCF from Oakball on Jul 8, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
turn it green
As a regular reader (not poster) I really like it when well thought out comments are rec’ed and turned green – especially when it is in a long discussion (like this one is turning into).
As I have posted before
Untouchable:
Suzuki
Cahill
Anderson
Bailey
and even then, Suzuki would probably could be pried away with the right batch of prospects, as we have Josh Donaldson in AAA and Max Stassi behind him. Everyone else is fodder.
sigh
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
Replace Sweeney with Carter
The team needs his bat and keep Cust at DH
by gambler on Jul 8, 2010 9:54 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Carter?
This guy intrigues me. I think he is a keeper—-but we have to let the guy play to see what we have. I also think Rosales is a keeper—-long term. There is excitement there that I haven’t seen since the unfortunate (and lamented) departure of CarGo (there goes my blood pressure again!). Meanwhile, why do we hang on to guys like Travis Buck? Do we have any guys—-any guys at all—in the minors who are big, who don’t look like they’ve just done Weightwatchers. When I look at the A’s, all I see (aside from Cust) is little guys.
"It's a cookbook!"---The Twilight Zone
So you want to sign Shaquille O'Neal?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think
that he would hit as well as Jordan. I was sad I never got a chance to see Michael Jordan hitting for the Birmingham Barons, that would have been awesome.
noone saw him hit with the Barons. He made quite the outdoor fan, but didn't hit much.
by theblackpearl on Jul 8, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Noone?
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by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 8, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
his irritating music from the past comes to annoy me
when the office music is the stupid 60’s station.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
Mrs Brown you've got a lovely daughter
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I really do agree with Rosales
Plus, last thing we need is a Scutaro situation all over again…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 8, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
To get something, you need to have something
Realistically, the A’s just don’t have anything to trade. Ellis is not going to fetch much; in a way he’s emblematic of the A’s, a decent fielding, light hitting, nice guy who gets injured often. Sheets you can save money by trading, but in turn you’re not going to get anything but a second rate prospect. Sweeney, Barton, et al. are singles hitters, nothing more.
The A’s need to keep their top three young pitchers, Anderson, Cahill, and Gio, and none of them are particularly attractive for a pennant running team anyway because they are so young and inexperienced.
For me, the best bet for the A’s is to keep almost their young talent, resign Crisp (and hope he stays healthy), actually spend money and find two power OF’ers in the free agent market next year. If they won’t spend the money, this team will be where it is now – in the lower middle of the pack – for awhile.
Trading away what marginal talent the A’s have for more marginal talent or marginal prospects doesn’t seem like a productive use of time.
I don't see two power OF in the FA market. Who is available?
I don’t really have a problem with paying Carl Crawford $25 million per year, but I doubt they’d do that. It’s more their style to divide that $25 million among Kendall, Kotsay, Loaiza and Piazza.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
hoo boy
Actually, the A’s got those four for the bargain price of $35 million per year (roughly rounded). The recent history of free-agent signings has not been good, at all.
by jdr on Jul 8, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
You call wasting $35 million a bargain?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Jayson Werth
He’s a presence. There are some crap shoot kind of players at 1B and DH as well and you could pick one on a lark. But taking 25 million and splitting it four ways – the A’s style as you call it – probably is a losing strategy.
I'd go for him, but they still need a CF unless you want Coco/Rajai again.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd hang on to Coco for one more year
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Can we have Swisher back, then?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I'm leaning that way myself
In my little make believe land Crisp would stay healthy and productive next year and the A’s would sign Crawford to play LF. That would be 2/3 of an incredible defensive outfield and a productive top o’ the order.
Here’s the kicker… I’m convinced the A’s could afford it.
Even with a $60 million payroll in 2011 and 2012.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Really I'd be more worried about giving him a 5+ year deal
Which he’ll probably want.
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I'm more worried about having a bunch of crappy players on cheap contracts
than having good players on big contracts.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced Crawford will still be good in 4 years.
That’s my whole point.
I’d offer him a 3 year deal and not really care what the dollar amount was. I’m sure he’s gonna want 5 or 6 years at least, and with the talk of the Yankees already started, he’ll be the “big” name offensive player on the market, and probably the 2nd biggest FA after Cliff Lee.
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Why do you think Crawford will crash and burn by his age 33 season?
The monster at the end of this blog.
he depends a lot on his speed
and he may well lose a step as he gets older.
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He's also a Hell of an athlete
And players with his athleticism tend to maintain their skills for a while.
I just think that worrying about a guy falling apart by 33 is a reach in this day and age of fitness and nutrition.
The monster at the end of this blog.
ugh. shit. I didn't see these replies again.
I dunno, maybe I still see Crawford as the Chone Figgins type guy. Not a lot of HR power, etc… and Figgins is apparently falling off a cliff, too.
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Lou Brock and Rickey Henderson were just fine in their late 30s
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
You're suggesting Crawford will be one of the 3 best base stealers of all time?
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No, I'm suggesting that fast players age better
than normal players. Use Otis Nixon as an example if that makes you feel better.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm convinced Crawford would say no.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
would Crawford want to come to Oakland?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Yes and save money by cutting all crappy players making more than $1 million
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I dunno why, but I get the feeling that he's going to need to stay in Philly to remain a good player.
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Could help with the attitude
He’s terrible with fans and I’ve heard he’s not so great with the teammates.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 8, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to set your sight appropriately
Ellis could net you a fairly decent A-ball prospect… maybe a bit more.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Grover I <3 you
this is both fucking hilarious and really good info.
I couple of questions: John Jaso? For real? If not would Jennings for Suzuki make sense?
The Mets have a long term need at C, Suzuki for Flores, Tejada and a low level pitcher? Someone like Familia before this year?
Suzuki to the Tigers for Oliver Crosby and someone else?
Suzuki to the Brewers in the off season for Lawrie plus?
Id trade Baily in a heartbeat for a quality offer which would have to an impact bat plus considering the years of control. Other than that I don’t see anyone with real value. Ellis should be traded and I would try to sign Sheets to an extension and if he doesn’t trade him.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 10:01 AM PDT reply actions
I see no way possible that the Rays would trade Jennings for Suzuki unless Friedman's suddenly taken leave of his senses.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
They might do Suzuki for Upton though, if they're really fed up with BJ, and I'd do that in a heartbeat.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
That trade scares me too much
There’s just no assurance that Upton will ever regain the form of his first couple years, and it could be more difficult that we think to replace Suzuki at catcher…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 8, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
It does help with our plan to bring Justin Upton aboard in 2014.
Hey, come play with your brother!
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack
Glad you're willing to risk your own heart beat
The question I’d like answered before agreeing with an Upton/Suzuki deal is… where the fuck did Upton’s bat go?
The monster at the end of this blog.
It was last seen hanging out with JaMarcus Russel and his Grape Drank!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
You might also ask what's so great about Suzuki that you wouldn't give him up to find out
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah. I'll stick with my original question.
’Cause I know the answer to the other one.
The monster at the end of this blog.
He has a very long swing. Perhaps the league has found the holes in it.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Suzuki is worth more than Jennings
Hes having a poor year and Suzuki is a 3 WAR catcher under control for three years after this one. You are trading 9 WAR for a prospect. You better get Jennings and some throw ins.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
You've now given me hope that Friedman is silly enough to believe this.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Jennings really isn't that good. Try park and luck neutral his stats they aren't fantastic
plus hes an injury risk and is OPSing 684. Im not even a big fan of his he would just fit the need.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, this is actually logical. I disagree, but it makes sense.
Obviously you don’t trade a decent starting catcher for someone you don’t think is very good. But you do trade that catcher for someone you think has a 30% chance at being a consistent 4-5 WAR player whomever you might think that is.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
right the risk for Jennings not becoming a 4-5WAR guy is quite high
with his injury history and prospect busts. You are trading 9 pretty sure WAR for maybe like 24 WAR if he hits his peak which seems to me to be a pretty fair trade propisition considering the risk of jennings.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you're way off base on how talented Jennings is
However, I also think you’re understating how injury prone he is.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I see talented D and a good but not great bat
I don’t see a lot of power and the park/luck neutral stats worry especially when coupled with the injury history.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Feel free to substitute your own version of an A- prospect and I'd trade Suzuki for that
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Hes the best fit I see
unless the mets want to do flores tejada familia in the offseason
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Answers
Jaso is playing over his head but I think Tampa thinks he’s good enough to not have to add Catcher to the Needs list. Even if C was a priority I doubt they’d part with Jennings. I’m starting to feel like there’s a better chance of Carl Crawford playing for the Rays in 2011 than BJ Upton.
As for Suzuki to the Mets… that’s more of a offseason kind of move to me. They have higher priorities right now than C and until those issues get resolved (one way or the other) they aren’t going to be too interested in pursuing Suzuki.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The Suzuki thing
I know from conversations I have had with folks who know Zooks personally that he isn’t happy right now in Oakland and hasn’t been for awhile. I’m not sure how this might affect his “contract negotiations” but it could be a part of the reason he hasn’t signed a new deal. I myself really love having Kurt in an A’s uniform, even as he has been struggling of late, and would love to see him stay here.
As many of you point out, he is getting run down by catching too many games and I wish the management would make him rest more but of course you all know how that goes…right?
Great post grover and keep up the good work!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
by mrod on Jul 8, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess the losing is starting to get to him
and I’m sure he’s privy to all of the bullshit that we see going on but never really hear about….can you blame him? Every real competitor wants to win and I respect that about Suzuki because he plays with about as much game preparation as there is these days.
Maybe he’s starting to see that the club doesn’t really have a plan that matches up with what Suziki had in mind when he took over the reigns, maybe he’s sick of Geren, and maybe he just wants to win!
The word “unhappy” is the word I keep hearing, though.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
by mrod on Jul 8, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK... angst 'cause the A's keep losing I understand
But if there are back room factors involved in his feeling of unease than that’s no bueno.
The monster at the end of this blog.
That's kind of what I was alluding to.......
And he isn’t the only one, from what I understand, but since we were discussing Suzuki, I thought I would use him as a prime example, especially since I consider him a rock in this organization.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Have you told Billy Beane...?
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 8, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait a sec... I'm a little tired and I don't want to misunderstand
Suzuki (and other players) are unhappy because the A’s are heading towards their 4th straight losing season.
OR
Zooks and others are primarily pissed because of behind-the-scenes bullshit.
The monster at the end of this blog.
It's both
form what i understand.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Well... winning cures all ills
I’m just not sure when the vaccine will be ready in Oakland.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Me neither
And that’s what worries me more than anything. The A’s are starting to develop a losing culture and that is not okay with me one bit!
It also makes it even more difficult to lure FA’s to Oakland, the park and attendance aside, when you look at the last 3+ seasons here.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I think the feeling is shared by many of us Trainman.....
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Please Explain the Behind the Scenes...
Granted, we know about the inability to actually talk to the players BEFORE any kind of transaction (ie: option to minors), but what else…
So the answer is:
Fire Bob Geren, and then sign Kurt Suzuki to a contract extension.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
AKA:
Billy, run a ballclub again and not a fraternity.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But who'll be on Billy's Quarters team?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm rec'ing this entire convo so people read it
Great info.
I'm not much of a reccolector,
but are you a rec collector?
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 8, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
The team's strengths are payroll flexibility and not having any terrible holes except the OF.
They could fix both by signing Carl Crawford for $5M more than anyone else will pay — say $25M and also trading for Vernon Wells, who should be almost free and Jays might kick in $5M/year or so. You add $40M to the payroll, subtract $25m for Chavez, Sheets and Crisp, and you’re instantly an 85 win team with an $85M payroll. Then you take your chances. You’ve got an OF of Crawford, Wells and Jackson/Taylor and Cust/Carter at DH.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
If we're going that route
I might prefer Werth in the offseason. Of course, the A’s could have picked up Rios last year if they were smart.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
That was not a smart pickup (Rios)
It was stupid and a HUGE gamble that’s paid off so far.
The same would be said for adding Vernon Wells, who still gets over $20M per season until 2014. Even with $5M per year from Toronto, it’s still 16M per season for a guy who’s not that good.
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I agree with this.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
And what would you have them do with that $16M?
Split it among 5 guys who are not that good?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Ted Lilly?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
You'd rather have Ted Lilly than Vernon Wells?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I was throwing out pitchers that will get something like that
but yes Wells was replacement level last year and sucked two and three years ago too.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Right now I'd rather have Aubrey Huff
He just hit his 17th jack of the season…………(sobs!)
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Watch Sabean give him a 3 year deal this offseason
and him do some regression.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
as opposed to one guy who isn't that good?
I mean… look at Sheets. That’s at 10M waste. Do you want to have a worse player for like 5 more years who costs more money
Just because you have the money doesn’t mean you should spend it.
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Actually it does mean that. I get no kick from Fisher pocketing the revenue sharing
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
So?
If there’s no good players to spend the money on, then the team gets filled up with hugely overpaid scrubs.
Everybody wanted Scutaro back so badly. Pennington is outperforming him.
It sucks that Beltre took Boston’s offer. It sucks that Furcal stayed in LA. Giving that money to a worse player just because the good ones you wanted first didn’t take your offer is a stupid move to make.
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The A's didn't offer Beltre more money though.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Pennington is not outperforming Scutaro
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
They're damn near identical with a slight edge to Pennington.
Pennington: 81 games .326 wOBA, 1.6 UZR = 1.8 WAR
Scutaro: 82 games, .319 wOBA, 1.9 UZR = 1.6 WAR
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Ugh. Facts.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Crazy, right?
As much as it seems like Pennington has been ‘meh’ this year, nothing special really… Scutaro’s been almost identical.
I wonder what people would be saying if Scutaro was in the first year of a 3/18 contract here and he was performing like he is?
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Actually, I'm really surprised Pennington has a .326 wOBA.
That seems higher than I had thought. By a lot.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
well its the hitting 500 for the month insead of hitting 150 for the month thing hes been on
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
UZR clearly sucks. Scutaro is not a good defensive short stop.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Sheets is the type of signing you do make if you have payroll flexibility
and there isn’t another viable player to invest in on the market.
He has upside. Now, there’s obvious opposition to this logic, since it is an expensive gamble, but for a fringe contender with payroll flexibility, it makes sense.
It shouldn’t take the place of another move (e.g. offering Beltre, Scutaro, Furcal, etc. good money) or going after a legitimate, proven difference maker/stud player, but if its between spending the 10MM on a guy like Sheets who has the upside to return to 2008 form and be a legit star, and spending it on some combination of proven mediocre veteran relievers, and other proven mediocre vets on 1 year deals).
Not throwing money at overrated relievers (hello Brandon Lyon and Fernando Rodney), and not throwing it at guys like Ross Gload, Jason Kendall, and others who have a proven reputation of mediocrity but will be cheap is good.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I don't agree at all
Rios was, and is, a very good player who was in the middle of a very bad luck season, one year removed from a 5.4 WAR season and 4.7 the year before that.
Everyone ripped him so hard for half a season that few were actually looking at the fact that he was still very good at baseball.
Vernon Wells’ situation was entirely different.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 8, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Right.
Also, his contract has him making 12.5 million or less over the next 5 seasons. His contract is nowhere near the albatross Wells’s contract is.
Picking up Alex Rios was exactly the type of move the A’s needed to pick.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
There isn't a Rios type player this year
but there are guys like Aramis Ramirez who are going to rebound, and won’t cost anything but money, and immediately put us in a better position for 2011.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Ramirez is old.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I don't think the Rios pickup was stupid for the White Sox
Kenny Williams had the cash, and since that was all he was risking…
The key to gambling is to never risk more than you can afford to lose. The A’s would have been taking a huge risk if they had tried to pick up Rios’ $15 million salary on a $60 million budget; Chicago had twice the funds to work with, thereby reducing the risk.
The monster at the end of this blog.
15 million salary?
Cots says he made 5.9 million in ‘09, 9.7 million in ’10, then 12-12.5 million from ’11-’14. Rios’s contract isn’t as bad as everyone is making it out to be.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I thought I saw someone say $15 million earlier
Sorry, I’m not really eager to fact check salaries today.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Yeah, Rios was smart
Peavy, on the other hand…
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Perhaps they saw what was wrong with Rios' swing and had plans to fix it.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
85 wins seems doable to me, too,
but they do have to put down some money, more money than they’d get from the increase in attendance. If they get lucky and healthy, they might get it up to 88 or 90 wins and make the playoffs. If Wolff won’t pay, though, it’s all immaterial.
Carl Crawford would hit 5 HR in the Coli
And not as many triples. That brings his SLG down a ton.
Wells is way too expensive and risky to spend $20M on. I’d rather bank it and spend it on someone either next year or spend that kind of money on a Werth-type.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
In that case I'd like to see them cut it to $40 million and have Fisher pocket the revenue sharing
OK I didn’t mean that. Make it $25 million.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
What's the point of an 85 win team @ $85 million?
Not good enough to compete & not enough $ to sign over slot draft picks….
You have a point there...you need the likes of Cahill, Anderson and Gio to take a step forward.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
It's more fun to watch the games when the A's win.
Root, root, root for the home team.
If they don’t win it’s a shame.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
not really
Id rather watch a 60 win team than a 75 win team any day.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but you're a freak.
Most of us like it better when our team wins.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Jul 9, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
why? Because 60 win teams are comically bad?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
that and you get a better draft pick, can sign type A picks without losing your 1rst rounder, and get to see the kids play at the mlb level
and you know they are going to be bad rather than wasting hope that they are something that they aren’t.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
The better draft pick would be nice
Although it’s hard to assure yourself #1 pick without trying to lose. And losing blows.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
so u enjoy watching the Pirates instead of the Athletics?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
No the pirates have been shitty for years
the A’s haven’t. But would I rather watch the Marlins than the Astros? Hell Fucking Yes
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You do realize that the Marlins haven't been a 60 win team at all this decade right?
Most of the time, they’ve been the 75-85 win teams that you’re railing against.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
ok then Id rather be a Rays fan than a Astro's fan
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
That' not much of a hard decision.
The better question would be to ask yourself if you’d rather be an A’s fan or a Rays fan. Or better yet, ask yourself that question 3, 4 years ago.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Indians
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Astros or Pirates?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 10, 2010 4:24 AM PDT up reply actions
pirates now
astros before the gm change.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
That was amazing I <3 firefly
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
75 wins is probably sufficient to sign type A
without losing 1st round. The first 15 picks are protected, right?
I do like watching kids play, but that’s why I go to minor league games. Wanting kids at the MLB level seems inconsistent with your service clock complaints.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
not really
i just want them to play after 20 days of MilB servic
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Getting a draft position isn't as important as you're making it out to be.
What’s important is drafting well, and going overslot….things the A’s are finally starting to do well.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Do you like the Choice selection?
Just curious — he seems like a pick some love and some hate.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would have preferred Grandal, like almost everyone else. I think Grandal has Posey upside.
But the A’s were never considering Grandal and he was never connected to the A’s. Everything indicated it was between Choice and O’Connor for the A’s and I’m glad they chose Choice over O’Connor.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Yeah sign me up for the switch hitting catcher please.
Hopefully Choice turns out to be a good one.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I see lots of good question
I’m not going to answer any of them at this time as I need to take my son to his swimming lessons. However, I leave you with this purely speculative idea…
Andrew Bailey for Matt Kemp.
Discuss.
The monster at the end of this blog.
DO IT BEFORE COLLETTI FIGURES OUT WHAT HE'S DOING.
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you wish.
if the A’s can get anything close to that sort of value in return for Bailey it needs to be done instantly.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 8, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Id do it in a heartbeat
Id throw in Sheets plus salary too.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd throw in Cahill
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Bailey Ellis and Sheets + a dumptruck of cash for Kemp and Jamie McCourt?
Hell
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Substitute Rihanna for Jamie and you've got a deal
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think they would want to give us Rihanna
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
yes
#thingsIwishIdidn’tknow
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
And Cahill? No way Jose!
Are u crazy?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
So I'm just the guy to do it!
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
You're nuts.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
yes
but there is no way they are that dumb. Bailey + Ellis might get them moving a little.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude...it's way too early to start drinking!
:)
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Bailey, Ellis, Sheets with Dodgers paying league minimum for each player
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Get it done NOW.
Get him out of center field
Although, from Dodgers standpoint, who the hell plays center field?
THROW INS.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
In a heartbeat. I'd stick him in RF and bat him 4th.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
If that deal happened there'd be no way he plays CF in Oakland
Ever.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I think I've concluded I want to trade Suzuki in the offseason
All three of the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays need catchers in the offseason so there will certainly be a market. Suzuki’s biggest value is his durability and as the A’s keep running him into the ground he won’t be able to keep it up. While his defense is good, almost any attempt to qualify it finds it average. ’
Josh Donaldson with a sprinkling of Powell as a replacement isn’t a huge fall although it will be a fall. 2011 is not looking like a competitive team without big changes anyway. If the A’s can get one more big deal, they need to take it for Kurt. I’m not totally against keeping Kurt but I worry he’s nothing more than Ramon Hernandez, a solid piece but not a guy to build around. If the A’s don’t get a really good offer I keep him, but they need to start hinting he’s available for the right package.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Jul 8, 2010 10:47 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm pretty sure everybody is available for the right package.
But I agree. I’d be putting feelers out now, honestly. Hell, the Yankees are running Francisco Cervelli out at catcher because Posada is broken down.
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Cervelli's doing pretty well.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Also
the Yankees have quite a bit of catching depth. I can’t see them trading for someone who will block Montero/Romine/“whatever the two single-A catchers are called” wave of talent coming up.
Ya, unless it's an All-Star catcher.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe
But I think Cashman is smart enough, and has gotten enough leverage that he would avoid it. Unless they are planning on trading their catching depth to acquire something else (and I’m not sure what else they need that badly), and with Posada signed through 2011, it really just doesn’t make sense to me, unless they think that all their highly-touted prospects suck. But maybe they would value the certainty of “an All-Star catcher” over the potential of an untested minor leaguer.
Gary Sanchez is the GCL prospect hitting the crap out of the ball.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Right!
Thanks, that’s who I was thinking of.
Montero sticking at catcher?
I don’t see it.
Red Sox and Rays both trading for a catcher makes a lot of sense though. The Rays’ best catching prospect, I think, is a HSer (I think his name is Luke Bailey, but i could be way off on that), who was drafted last year as an overslot pick (similar to the A’s and Stassi)
Also, if Tyler Flowers doesn’t stick at catcher defensively, possibly the White Sox, Tigers as Laird is close to FA and is currently a steaming pile of crap.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Montero may not stick
But they do still have him playing catcher. I was trying to list all the possibilities that they already had to choose from, and Montero is one, even if he may not be the choice they pick.
Ive been a big supporter of trading Suzuki mostly becaus I think that the A's are going to run him into the ground
by always playing him and Donaldson will start to lose value if he stays in AAA
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Donaldson with what's left of Powell is a pretty big downgrade, but that doesn't mean
you don’t trade Suzuki. You better get back another catcher somewhere though.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I really don't think you need to
I mean it would have helped if we kept Fox around before doing this but you know having no plan is apparently the the way the org is doing things now.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I assume it would be easy enough to
get a Fox equivalent in a junk trade or off the waiver wire.
If the issue is getting a crappy catcher to fill in until Donaldson is more ready, or a crappy veteran catcher to be his backup, then that’s not a problem.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The issue is a fall back if Donaldson fails
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
If Suzuki is traded this month,
you give Donaldson the starting job anyway and let him sink or swim. If he sucks, too bad. Isn’t that what we did with Pennington at the end of last year? Who was the SS fallback plan?
If Donaldson is a complete and utter failure, then you go looking for some veteran journeyman catcher during the offseason.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The difference is Ocab was terrible
Suzuki is good. And Miguel Olivo is the backup plan in the offseason I guess.
I would also try Powell behind the plate before giving it to Donaldson which is why having a back up like Fox who if he ever got his stroke back would be a valuable player behind the plate would have been ideal but weve been really stupid as an org lately.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
A 32 year old C having a fluke year sounds like a bad investment
Which will be avoided when Colorado exercises their $2.5 million club option for 2011.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Olivo had a good year last too.
for KC no less.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I don't think Donaldson is a starting caliber big league Catcher
If I were thinking of trading Suzuki I’d be looking to find his replacement outside the organization. Donaldson would make a great back-up who could find some extra at bats with his ability to play the infield corners.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Yeah I just think this is wrong
if you park and luck neutral his stats hes approaching a 1000 OPS in Sac. Hes a league average catcher even with bad defense if he is a 330 wOBA hitter which i think he certainly will be.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Even allowing for neutral stats
I think you’re over-valuing his bat.
And since he seems to be leaning towards being a bad defensive catcher…
He simply hasn’t convinced me he’s a starting caliber option.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Even allowing for neutral stats
I think you’re over-valuing his bat.
And since he seems to be leaning towards being a bad defensive catcher…
He simply hasn’t convinced me he’s a starting caliber option.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Breslow is at maximum value now
He was drafted and released by the Brewers. The Padres and Red Sox each signed him as a free agent. The Indians, Twins and A’s all claimed him off waivers. So we have a 30-year-old journeyman lefthanded reliever who’s pitching very well for a team going nowhere. That’s the profile of guys who get traded at the deadline every time, as well they should. Prices on the Craig Breslows of the world are much lower in December than they are in late July, so find a replacement in the offseason.
Not sure Breslow's worth much. Orioles got Bell for Sherrill, but George had that Closer tag.
They need to get Breslow some saves if they want to do this.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Right...my hopes aren't high at all
My point here is that, of his five previous organizations, not only did none of them think he was worth keeping, but not a single one of them got anything for him when they let him go. I’m thinking that at this point of the season one of the contenders would give up the sort of second-tier prospect who could compete for the 22-25 spots on the roster next spring training.
Totally agree
Forget the blockbuster deals, trade deadlines are equally about teams shoring up small holes in the roster. As grover pointed out, several teams could really use another arm in the bullpen to lock down the 7th/8th inning. I view a best scenario as acquiring a guy like Rosales. Of course the end result is at most another player who’s good enough to hit at the back end of a quality MLB lineup, but it keeps us from becoming the Pirates.
Bottom line: If we’re out of it, Breslow’s worth nothing to us this year and then he’s gone, so let’s get something for nothing.
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack
Sherrill also cost more moneys
and I don’t think the O’s ate any of Sherrill’s salary.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
On Suzuki and young pitchers
Aside from the tangible effects of trading away our current HR leader, I’m worried about the intangible effect of losing a catcher who has seemingly had success nurturing a young pitching core. Especially with a headcase like Gio on the mound every 5th day, I’m excited by the prospect of having a catcher-rotation combo with years of experience together.
On a related note, if anyone knows of some good articles illuminating the effects of catchers on pitching staffs I’d love to have a look at ’em.
"No matter what I talk about, I always get back to baseball." - Connie Mack
holy grail
On a related note, if anyone knows of some good articles illuminating the effects of catchers on pitching staffs I’d love to have a look at ’em.
You are talking about something that has been a quest for quite a while. I haven’t seen anything that has done a really great job of quantifying that yet, partly because it’s just so hard to isolate catcher effects from everything else.
Ya it seems there are some guys who are not good at it in the eyes of their teams -- Napoli --
but guys who are good at nurturing pitchers don’t seem that rare. You can always get whoever the next Henry Blanco is for next to nothing.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
And guys who are loved by their teams
Such as Rob Johnson on the Mariners, for reasons beyond the understanding of fans. I wonder if this is still a very heavily “scout”-based evaluation, though, or whether some innovative team out there has some metric for catcher defense.
Rob Johnson is pretty much all about Felix, isn't it?
Felix wants Rob to catch him, so that’s that.
I don’t think “the team” loves Rob. Felix loves Rob, and the team loves Felix.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Perhaps this is the case
I know you follow the M’s more than I do, although I do like to lurk on LL. But if it’s Felix especially, why does Johnson catch on non-Felix days?
Also, I realize that this is getting off-topic, so feel free to ignore.
Yes but it's not hard to find these guys. It's not worth quantifying the value of a non-scarce resource
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Felix liking Rob Johnson is why Rob Johnson is still on the roster
and they didn’t get someone better. Given that he is on the roster, they use him sometimes because even though he sucks, it’s not like any of their other catchers are much better.
Catcher is a position of need for the Mariners. They would love to have a young ML-ready catcher right now. The Cliff Lee suitors are well aware of this. That’s why Wilson Ramos is part of Minnesota’s offer.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
We could get in a three way with Suzuki going to seattle maybe?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, now it looks like they could hook Jesús Montero.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I think the Twins' offer is better for the Mariners.
I wonder if they’re seriously going to take the Yankees’, or if it’s just to drive up the bidding.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Yeah Montero is a 1bman for them but they need one of those too
which is why Tex with Smoak was in the running.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I'm surprised the Yankees
offered a serious package. I was sure they’d pass on Lee now and pick him up in the off-season for money after his contract runs out.
It’s not like the Yankees to give up good prospects when they can spend money instead.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
They don't have to give up their first round pick this way, though.
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Good point.
I had forgotten about that.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
True,
But it’s hard to say that the first-round pick next year will be worth giving up Montero. Even if he’s a DH, he’s a masher who is only 20 and in AAA. Still seems dumb to me.
agreed.
and it’s apparently no longer on the table, so…
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Sounds to me like a win-win
Seattle wins because the Cliff Lee hype is ramped up a little more, increasing their chance of getting a better offer.
Yankees win because they’ve gotten Lee’s attention and made it clear they’re “interested” in him, increasing their chance of signing him in the off-season.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
From what I read, there
were really any “negotiations” to fall through. It was just a take-it-or-leave-it, and Seattle didn’t take it.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Oops: should be wereN'T
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Depends on how patient the Mariners are to get his bat in the line-up
If they want instant gratification then no, he ain’t gonna stick at C.
The monster at the end of this blog.
You've hit on something very important.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
What would a package of, say...
Ellis, Sheets and Suzuki bring? Seems like the Phiilies could use help at all 3 positions (at least temporarily at 2nd base).
The Phillies can't afford that package
They’ve hit their farm system pretty hard over the past couple seasons and I don’t see them having the pieces to provide a quality return.
The monster at the end of this blog.
They'd have to give up Domonic Brown, which they won't do
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 8, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep.
He’s about as untouchable as they come.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Very good point
Although I would package Sheets and Ellis together
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 8, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Adding Suzuki to the mix...
Brown isn’t enough.
I think you could find much better prospects if you made 3 separate deals for the players in question.
The monster at the end of this blog.
this
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Only one thing is important to remember
Anyone who could contribute to a competitive club in the next 1-3 years if off limits, everyone else is fair game.
That means anyone on this roster that is under team control for a couple more years and would still be on the roster of a 90 win team should stay.
That means:
-Cahill, Anderson, Gio, you’re safe.
-Suzuki you’re safe, despite this quote by Grover:
The A’s have been attempting to sign Kurt Suzuki to a long term deal for months with no success.
*I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. No matter if we sign him to an extension or not, we stand very little to gain by trading Suzuki now versus in 1 1/2 years or so when he gets closer to FA. The difference in prospects isn’t going to be much, and it isn’t worth the kind of production we could get out of him in that time.
I really don’t get this idea to trade guys on this team who actually are good hitters for their position. What’s being advocated for is a small rebuilding, which could keep this team from actually competing in the near future.
-Bailey is also untouchable for another year or two, at least until we know we’ve found another consistent reliever who can shut down good lineups when he comes in.
-Only other guy I’m sure to keep is Barton.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
Suzuki already got hurt this year and missed some time.
He is being run into the ground, and in 1 1/2 years he might not be worth anything.
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I really don't think...
there should be any position players on this team that are ‘safe’. There are not even any all-star caliber players among them, therefore making them all liable to be traded.
I don't understand the logic of
trading young guys with potential who we control for several years. Up above, Cup says
Sweeney, Bailey, and Gio are all guys that to me, ought to fetch us something of MLB-ready or near-MLB ready value now.
In other words, they will fetch other guys who are the exact same thing they are but with different names. They are young guys who have done all right in the big leagues and might be good. You want to swap them for … the same thing. What’s the point? Unless someone is overrated by another team and they offer a package that is better than the guy is worth (which is possible, I suppose) then what have you accomplished? Your overall talent is unchanged and it’s still positioned the same on the now-vs-future scale. All you’ve done is churn the roster, which does more harm than good.
I understand that we’re a team that plays young players and we rarely keep a guy long into his career. There is a logic to that and I’m not opposed to it, but it does come at a price. I think there really is a sense of defeatism and demoralization to the team that comes from the perception that as soon as a guy becomes any good we get rid of him. The same effect hurts the fan base even more, and I do think that is part of the attendance problem (though not the biggest part).
To my mind, the only obvious trade chip is Ben Sheets. I don’t think we’ll get much for him, but we could probably get something better than him. Sheets hasn’t been very good for us and I think our rotation won’t be that much worse without him. Given the hunger of playoff contenders for a veteran starter with a history of success, it seems likely we’d get an offer which, although not of star quality, is still better than what a no-name starter with Ben Sheets’ 2010 numbers would get. Since he was perceived as a rental all along, I don’t think there will be any real psychological cost. I do think it’s likely he’ll do better with his new team, which would piss off fans a la Holliday, but that’s not sufficient reason to keep him. Although I don’t think salary dump is a big issue for us, Sheets’ price tag is one more reason to unload him, or better yet use our willingness to assume salary as a way to get a slightly better return.
Ellis may be tradable. To me the key here is how that would affect the clubhouse, which I’m not in a position to gauge. He’s the guy who has been on the team longest, and giving him up would be like a cut with the past, but I’m not really sure if that’s a good or a bad thing. Possibly it would demoralize the team, or possibly it would spark them afresh. (Or possibly it would make no difference at all.) I don’t know what kind of offers we’d get for Ellis. Maybe none that are worth it. I wouldn’t shop him for the sake of shopping him, but if a good offer comes that would make sense to take.
I’m slowly coming around on the idea of trading Suzuki, which I have mostly opposed. I think Kurt is the closest we’ve got to the heart of the team right now and to give him up would be a big blow to the team morale and especially the fans. On the other hand, I tend to agree with DFA that we’re overusing him and that puts him at risk of decline, so if big offers are out there it may make sense to take them in spite of it. Grover has hinted that the A’s are having trouble signing Suzuki to a long-term deal, which might be an indication that Kurt’s agent is aware of demand for his client elsewhere causing him to drive the price too high. If this is true (and so far I’ve seen no hard evidence), that might be what pushes me over to favoring trading him after all. If we are going to trade him rather than extend him, it probably does make sense to go ahead and do it now if a good offer is there.
There’s no one else on the team I think should be traded. I’m fine with little opportunistic deals that have little effect on the team, like Demel for Jackson; and I’m fine with saying yes if someone goes crazy and offers a lopsided deal in our favor, like the trio we got for Swisher even though, as far as I know, Swisher wasn’t being shopped. But beyond that, I say stick it out with our young guys and hope they improve, plus maybe use the extra payroll anticipated next year to buy a FA better than the long-shot past-their-prime veterans we usually gamble on.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Jul 8, 2010 12:11 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Oversight:
I can also see the logic of trading Breslow, for reasons others have discussed here.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
To me, it's not just young guys for younger guys
It’s a skill swap. Sweeney is a good player who plays excellent defense, but hits for no power. Bailey is a power closer and has a track record already. Gio is, well, an enigma — but there is no doubt he is very talented.
In each case, we either a) have a replacement guy who isn’t a bad downgrade or b) have a weakness that needs to be filled by someone else.
Having Sweeney hitting 1 HR in a power spot in the lineup is a recipe for offensive suck. He is in the way of someone better that we can acquire by trade or by AAA promotion. To me, he is obviated next year anyway. Bailey isn’t doing much closing on a losing team, that will continue to lose until it gets more offense. There really isn’t a replacement for Gio, but a multi-headed beast of Mazzaro/Braden/Mort/scrub AAA or vet pitcher ought to do decently enough. The key here, though, is using these guys to acquire power.
Suzuki is exactly the kind of guy we would want in a catcher if we traded him. He’s athletic, a good hitter, the pitchers love him, and is still young. Why would we trade that guy? He fills a need we would have without him. Also, I don’t see anyone as very viable until Stassi makes it, if he does at all. If Stassi rockets through the minors and is ready next year, sure, trade Suzuki. But, I don’t see that happening.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 8, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
As Cup points out
Trading a young pitcher (of which the A’s have in abundance) for a young hitter (of which the A’s lack) is the justification.
Ben Sheets is more than just a name guy, he’s also a SP who’s gone at least 6 IP his last 12 starts and that kind of innings-eating is appreciated come July when bullpens might be getting a little frazzled. If the A’s are willing (and they should be) to eat the salary they should get a fairly decent return.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 8, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right on, brother.
I personally see the logic of major, tear-the-team down firesales like we had here over 2007 and 2008. In that case, you’re just stripping down everything that won’t be around in 2+ years and accumulating a vast amount of young talent that may work out eventually to re-prop your team. I distinctly remember Billy Beane saying something like this:
If we’re going to do this rebuild the right way, we’re not just going to need good prospects…we are going to need a SHITLOAD of good prospects.
It’s taken a lot of talent accumulation over the past 3 years to even get this team to within striking distance of .500. To me…if you’re going to trade relatively proven young players (Suzuki, for example) for prospects, you better get a bit more than one hot prospect in return because burnout is so damn high among these guys. I’m not really comfortable with trading Suzuki, for example, for one “can’t miss” guy even if he’s so close to the majors and has tools galore, aka Desmond Jennings.
If this team can’t sign Suzuki to a reasonable extension AND it seems like Donaldson/Powell might be able to handle the duties over the next few seasons, then I say look for a good prospect package over the winter and cash him-in. But I don’t think just using Suzuki to grab one single guy is the right way to go…
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
by Taj Adib on Jul 8, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I second that emotion!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Totally, totally agree.
I’m not a big supporter of the “quantity over quality” approach, but you’re trading a guy like Suzuki, you damn better get back more than one piece in return, just to alleviate the bust risk. And, with the exception of those once-in-a-decade guys like Heyward and Strasburg, I don’t think the drop from the top 10 to the top 30 is really that great when you factor in bust risk.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Even though I love propagating ridiculous trade ideas
I actually think we have a good team, and will make a pretty good run of it once Anderson returns. The Yankees swept us because they are the best team in baseball and we are on the rise, it happens. The Texas heat has started, and unless the Angels jag a legit masher in a trade, we are still in this thing.
That being said, and even crazier still, I think we can still compete if we trade CrisporSweeney, Braden, Ellis & Sheets for a good hitting RF and other fodder (5th SP if Mortensen isnt that good, etc). Lets face it: the rotation is BA-TC-Gio-Mazz-whoever and thats looking pretty decent. Its better than the Rangers currently have, even if the 5th SP is Mortensen or replacement level guy. Rosales can play 2B for the rest of the year and then we get a masher in RF. You can even put ol’ Cust in LF and get another masher if its offense you want.
We are universally in agreement here that Crisp, Sweeney, Ellis, Braden & Sheets dont or wont have too much of a future here, right? So, lets see what that can get us, I bet its something pretty good. And with BA-TC-Gio-Mazz we have a real awesome looking rotation. There’s like, no depth, but that doesnt matter at this point in the season. You can ride the wave, or sit on the beach. Beane doesnt sit on the beach.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Braden stays
on having giant cajones alone. That aside……
If we’re gonna propagate big ass trades, and in this case a slugger, then why not go out and get Prince Fielder?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
'Cause Fielder won't be around very long
He’ll hit the FA market after next season.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Sure
but why not try and get the man signed to an extension by making him an offer that is comparable with other elite sluggers? If the A’s have as musch as 25-30 million available starting next year then why not spend a major portion of that on The Fat Boy?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Highly unlikely that Fielder doesn't taste FA
Plus, like you say, the guy has an obvious weight issue. When is it going to catch up with him?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Do you really spend tons of dough on a DH?
I mean, it worked with Papi, but its a little out of the ordinary.
However we lack power so badly….
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Was Hafner worth his 4/52 deal?
no.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Is any injured player worth an expensive long term deal?
no.
So let’s sign only players that are guaranteed never to get hurt.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 8, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Like Eric Chavez!!!
oh… wait…
But he had six healthy years!!!!!
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
The upside for this team is...
the Giants…
But, like the Giants, without changes to the A’s current roster (on the batting side of course…which probably won’t be possible without pitching for hitting trades), we’re looking at more of the same we’ve been seeing: Pretty good record when scoring 4+ runs, but mainly scores you can count to on one hand.
You know what would help
If our young position player prospects were worth a shit. Yeah, that would help.
Let's see...
In the last few years they’ve developed Suzuki, Pennington and Barton. Those guys aren’t stars but they’ve proven (to this point) to be legit big league starting caliber players. Add in Cahill, Anderson, Braden, Bailey and Mazzaro and that’s a solid collection of young, developed talent in a rather short time frame.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Okay
1. I wasn’t talking about pitchers.
2. The three position players you name are mediocre, but you’re right, of course, they’re all worth something.
3. I was talking about the perpetual disappointment of every one of our allegedly higher end prospects. We haven’t developed—and are likely fearing that were not going to be developing—any top flight hitters. That’s why we’re on the perpetual merry-go-round. Wait until 2010. Wait until 2011. Wait until 2012. Etc.
What you call mediocre, the data calls league average starters
The reason why I included the pitchers is because a team should be judged on its total output. If the A’s had developed a dozen pitchers into legit big league arms and then traded half of them for hitters who went straight into the Oakland line-up then you wouldn’t be able to credit the A’s for “developing” the bats.
But they’d still be in the field, helping the team win.
Put simply the A’s have had success developing talent. It’s a shame that so many of their top position prospects are having down years but that doesn’t mean they’ve lost their prospect status. Just because Carter is struggling this year does not mean he’s a bust. Player development is not a predictable science and the guys who are struggling now could end up being break-out rookies next year.
Or not.
Either way, it’s too early to judge.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I agree with all this
But it doesn’t in any way change my original point—which is that it would help if there current hitting prospects were currently worth a shit.
And aren’t “mediocre” and “league average starters” synonymous?
Anyway, thanks for a fairly lengthy response. I was just venting what has to be a very common feeling here following year after year after year of no hitters.
Mediocre and league average are not considered synonymous by most folks
Mediocre is considered less-than-average.
Kinda like Jake Fox behind the plate.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The problem is this.
Those guys aren’t stars
I understand the importance of league average. But if the best of the A’s farm system (offense wise) only turns out league average (and the A’s aren’t able to get star level players through FA or trades) players, then the A’s will simply continue to be mediocre.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I disagree
If the A’s can only produce league average hitters and continues to produce above-average pitching than they’ll be a good team.
The problem with the 2010 A’s is they have too many below league average players in the line-up.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Right, I have no doubt that that formula will lead to a good team.
Nor do I contend that the A’s lineup, currently, is full of crap.
The problem is the competition. The Rangers are producing potential above average players on both sides of the ball out of their farm to go along with young, above average major league players already on the roster. Plus, they’ve shown a knack for acquiring above average talent cheaply, something the A’s are supposedly good at it. The Angels have money and the world’s clutchiest roster. The Mariners…..are more like the A’s though their Cliff Lee trump card might produce a windfall.
The A’s simply have to be doing it as good, if not better, than everyone else if they want to go on a run of playoff appearances, and not just have a good team. So far, I’m really not seeing that.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I think the problem that these folks are saying...
Is that the hitting prospects that are good enough to take the A’s O to the next level probably won’t arrive & have sustained success until GAC are on their way out.
At least that’s what I’m saying
That assumes
Carter, Taylor, Brown, Cardenas, Weeks, Green, Donaldson, Dixon and Stassi all fail or at least develop incredibly slow. The A’s control GAC at least through 2015, so you’re basically assuming that every hitting prospect currently in the farm system is going to fail.
Doubtful.
The monster at the end of this blog.
True, Grover...I'm being somewhat of a negative Nancy mixed with a nervous Ned
basing my opinion on a few pre/assumptions:
1) The A’s haven’t developed much hitting talent the last several years
2) The bust rate for prospects isn’t encouraging
3) All the real meat of the order hitters have significant K issues
4) I think it will take a good 3 years before we find out how good of a player each prospect really is, and Dixon & Stassi may not make it to the show as regulars until 2015
It would be great if everyone was league average because then we could spend a bunch of FA dollers on stars.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 8, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally. I think building a roster of league average players down to the 25th spot is much much harder.
Than growing and acquiring one or two stars.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I agree with this
Of course, don’t turn into a team that surrounds a couple of stars with piles of steaming crap, you have your 2 or so stars and the rest of the team is below average/horrendous, but when you’ve got a couple stars, a good supplement of league average players and above average regulars, below average players mask themselves.
Just look at the Rays. They’ve had horrible production out of their SS, DH, and mediocre production out of their 1B. Yet they’re still…awesome. At least when comparing them to the other 28 teams that don’t have 200MM payrolls.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
This thread seems broken. I'm not getting new unread posts, but the post count is increasing.
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I'm not having any problems
With the thread showing new posts, I mean.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Personally, I think Gio is untouchable. In some ways, more than Anderson.
(And I’m willing to bet some of you would place him in the untouchable category as well, if it weren’t for last night’s start).
As for trading Suzuki, like with all trades, if someone offers you a can’t miss package, you take it. However, some things to consider:
1) Suzuki is not nearly as valuable in the eyes of the rest of the league as he is on this site. I’m pretty sure the rest of the league either has no clue who he is, or simply view him as a league average catcher (and I don’t think they will be that far off the mark). Some of the deals proposed (Suzuki for Jennings+) does not seem likely to come to fruition as the other party probably won’t deem it a good deal.
2) I’ve been worrying about Suzuki’s peripheral stats for a while now. His plate discipline has gone down the toilet (and has been, since his first season). He’s trying to pull everything. His popups (IFFB%) have gone way, way up. And I definitely think he’s trying to hit for more power than he can, probably in a misguided to be more of a “run producer” to try to carry this team. So far, he has managed to hit for more power (at the expense of everything else). But I don’t know if this trend can continue. I’m semi-confident in predicting a second half collapse for Suzuki (we might be seeing some of it now) which would just kill his value, making trading him pointless.
3) Either way, by the trading deadline next year, I think one of Suzuki and Donaldson will be out of the organization. Donaldson was really starting to establish himself as a good, major league ready catching prospect earlier this year but his offensive stats have gone done the shitter in June. I don’t think he can anchor a trade offer for a hitter which is lamentable since I think he’s one of the (good) prospects we can actually afford to trade.
4) Someone mentioned this above but I really do think trading will lead to a lot of other consequences. For one, it’ll piss off a dwindling fanbase even more as the rebuilding effort is (again) extended for a year or so more. Plus, like iglew mentioned above, Suzuki is one of the few A’s players that’s starting to make a name for himself among A’s fans. Trading him will further the perception that the A’s perpetually sell their players to other teams, right when they’re starting to get good. This can affect anything from the attendance to potential free agent acquisitions.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 8, 2010 2:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Hey guys!!!
No need to worry because Eric Chavez MAY be ready by September.
Perfect time for the stretch run!
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
I can see it now...
The A’s, having won 17 of their last 19 on the backs of Jack Cust’s 12 homers in 12 days are only a game back of the stalling Rangers. Unfortunately Eric Chavez returns from the disabled list sending Cust to the bench and ending the season.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
My two cents...
I think Sheets may fetch a little more than many think, just because SP is so important and the number of teams still in contention who are clearly looking for starting pitchers is many. A solid #3 starter can make a huge difference on a good team and Sheets is at least that.
Plus, the A’s can re-sign him in the off-season anyway if both sides want, so he absolutely should be traded if there’s a market. I think there will be.
I also wouldn’t completely overlook Wuertz — if scouts are watching (and they are, even if mainly to see Sheets/Ellis) and he looks like “2009 Wuertz” this month he could be at least an important addition to a package for a real prospect.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think the one (and probably only) thing that
everyone on this thread can agree on is that the A’s should trade Sheets.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on Jul 8, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And they'll have that "fresh" feeling again!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
id try to sign him to a cheap extension first
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
You think he's available for less than 4/$40M?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
He really should be
Im thinking like 4/32
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Then he should hire Kyle Lohse's agent
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
he should hire the Kyle Lohse economy
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
It amazes me that he signed that contract 2 months after the market crash.
Then they signed Ryan Franklin for big bucks as well. And it’s not like there weren’t lots of pitchers available.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
This
I kinda want him to not really amass any wins but still pitch decently. He’s the type of veteran pitcher we would want to sign next year for the 3/4 slot.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I would absolutely not trade Wuertz now
We would be selling way low, even if he returns to form for a couple weeks. Last year, the Slegna offered S-Rod+ for him. I doubt we could get anything even close to that for him now.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
By the way
Great work, grover. Thanks for this, I’m pretty sure we will keep coming back to this one in the following weeks.
Rec’d.
Can't wait to read it, rec'ing it in advance
Thanks for the all the hard work and research that go in to these. I hope others are giving you the praise you deserve, too.
It pains me when you, DFA, the late Devo, our front page crew, etc. put in hours into a post FOR FREE and people give exclusively negative feedback. Do people realize that the negative reinforcement makes it far less likely that good writers will continue to generously give of their time to provide free, lively baseball analysis?
Anyways, I just wanted to get out front and say something enthusiastically positive. Looking forward to reading this during the next bottle feeding when I can really sit down and soak it in. Thanks g.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jul 9, 2010 12:35 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Um, you talking about me?
I’m pretty sure grover knows I was joking.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 9, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I welcome the cynical and negative feedback
it’s what feeds the hate that keeps me alive, you know.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 9, 2010 4:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm sick of your stream-of-consciousness
ramblings, run-on sentences, and ungodly love of Chris Townsend, and I think the only reason you post on this site is to advance your radio career.
(I hope this helps you live another year)
by el generico on Jul 9, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
the check’s in the mail!!
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 9, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
no, I haven't read any of the comments yet
Just more reflecting on my personal experience writing fanposts, and grateful for the hard work that people put in to them. :)
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jul 9, 2010 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I feel you
And I gladly recommended your work. I had some posts in the past where multiple days of research went into it, and when that much work goes in, it is nice to know that such work is appreciated.
I’m sorry I haven’t participated in this thread. For one, I enjoy reading other guys’ opinions, and for two, I’m too tired for any constructive thinking. I have my 8-yr old niece from Spain and her best friend over, and entertaining them is not easy. Tomorrow it will be even worse, as I have 6 basketball games (short, tournament style ones) and one baseball game to play. I enjoy reading this thread and many quality comments in it very much, though.
I know the feeling
Enjoy your niece and try to stay in one piece tomorrow. The A’s have enough folks on the DL, lets not start adding ANers to the list.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I would not put it past SBN
to devise some sort of SBN-coins that we can pay to one another and redeem for little blog goodies like special badges to put on our userpage.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
"A lost lonely Travis Buck has appeared on Iglew's farm...
Please help them feed it."
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 9, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I kinda disagree with this.
I write posts because I want the debate and the clash. I hate comments that don’t take a position on my posts or just innanely parrot the same MSM/jock sports crap without even considering the argument.
Rec’s are very nice and always appreciated though.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope "the late Devo"
just refers to the fact that he doesn’t post here anymore and not any more significant departure.
(Also, criticism is not negative reinforcement. I get what you mean, but it’s confusing when you use a technical term to mean its exact opposite.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The "late Devo"?
What happened to Devo?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Rumors of his death may be greatly exaggerated.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So if we trade Suzuki
does the giant “Welcome to the House of Hustle” banner hanging in the Coliseum get changed to a big picture of Lew Wolff with the copy altered to “You Knew You Were Being Hustled.”?
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
Why would it be Wolff?
Should it be of Beane…you know the actual GM that runs day to day baseball operations?
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Just play for the name in front of the uniform.." - Dallas Braden
by ST on Jul 9, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Or used to
Go Netherlands! Go Spain!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If Yanks get Lee, market for Sheets opens quickly
ESPN reporting Yankees close to getting Lee.
Cool, so the Yanks win the World Series again – I don’t care. But this will quickly improve the market for Sheets among the other AL contenders, with some competition from the NL.
I care more about Seattle getting significantly better in the future
with Jesus Montero and Dustin Ackley.
That’s the bad stuff.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I know, but this was good roster management on their part
They thought they were contenders and Lee would fit – they’re not, so smart moving trading him for significant talent. The A’s tried that with Holliday and we’ll see how that works out. In the end, until the A’s are actually contenders, I’m not too worried about what other teams in the division are doing – need to get our own house in shape.
the did something smart. Got a player who would fit their ballpark and one without a lot of questions.
this is the subject of my ASB fanpost.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Montero fits Safeco?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
no they traded junk for the best pitcher in the bigs available with a great post season resume
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he's saying the Mariners are smart,
and Philippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and J.C. Ramirez are junk.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
this
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
It looks very likely that
Zduriencik’s Lee maneuver will work out far better than Beane’s Holliday maneuver did.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It would be like Beane trading Figueroa, Simmons and Brown
for Holliday and then trading him for….well Montero. Other than the Morrow trade Zduriencik has easily outperformed Forst.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 9, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Bradley for Silva isn't looking so hot right now.
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But Silva was beyond a zero-sum at the time
Bradley had actually hit in Chicago, he had just pissed off folks (not an understatement).
Silva sucked AND had pissed off folks in Seattle.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Well, make up your mind.
Are you going to judge trades by how they looked “at the time” or how they turned out?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
which trade didn't look good at the time?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I prefer how they looked at the time
although you can’t ignore how things turned out.
I know, very “beat around the bush” answer.
Looking at what Silva did the two years he was in Seattle and what Bradley did the two years prior to the trade, Also considering that Seattle was in dire need of offense, you make that deal all day.
I mean, if your franchise is facing contraction and a playoff berth could halt/slow that process, of course you overpay to bring in guys who can help your team win in the short term, even if the prospects turn into really good players and the overall results are horrible.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
The problem with "at the time"
is that it’s so subjective. If you think Charles Thomas and Dan Meyer are going to be good, you can say “it looked good at the time”. Then someone else can say “oh, no, I knew all along they would be bad” and it becomes a pointless argument.
If you look at how the trade turns out, at least there’s a clear answer.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Bah
I said the Huddy trade looked bad at the time and I was right.
The monster at the end of this blog.
But the reason we know you're right
is how it turned out.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The odds were in my favor
Especially if you did any research into Charles Thomas’ minor league track record.
But you are correct, it was only the passage of time that proved the inevitable to be correct.
The monster at the end of this blog.
this
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
the huddy trade looked like shit
especially since the Cards were offering the Mulder package for him
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
And the O's were offering that Roberts, Bedard package for Huddy....
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
They wanted a window for an extension
Makes things a little different.
The monster at the end of this blog.
How so?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
There would be no trade if they couldn't agree to an extension for Huddy
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Well
The value of Hudson for 1 year guaranteed vs. the value of 4 years guaranteed. The 4 year package requires more talent given up.
And Beane wasn’t willing to give anyone a window to sign Hudson to an extension.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Makes sense, thanks.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
The Cliff Lee trade and Milton Bradley trade both looked very good at the time, for the M's
The Matt Holliday trade…..didn’t.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
this
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Much clearer
Although I blame Amaro for that deal more than I credit Z.
The monster at the end of this blog.
making deals with idiots is a repeatable skill for gms
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Remember the Amaro!
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jul 9, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Seems like the Yankees are backing out of the Lee sweepstakes now.
and “another team” has aggressively gone after Lee
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Minnesota, I'll bet
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Its the Texas Rangers
Since the A’s are out of it, I really want them to give up their top prospects.
Seattle’s going to get a huge haul from someone anyway, why not it be at the exchange of weakening Texas.
AL West FTW
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Isn't the league paying the Rangers' bills? I doubt they allow them to acquire more payroll.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
A Cliff Lee trade could be done without acquiring payroll.
If they give up a nice package with Smoak as the centerpiece, Mariners might agree to eat the rest of Lee’s salary.
Imagine if the Rangers were willing to trade with the A’s for Ben Sheets. Would you be in favor of eating his salary in order to get better prospects?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Of course.
Though, it seems that Texas is adding salary.
Lee has 4M remaining this year, and Lowe has a bit over 500K.
Apparently Seattle is paying 2.5M of Lee’s remaining 4M, so the grand total is 3 million or so that Texas is adding in salary, minus whatever few hundred thousand is owed to Smoak
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
So the league is paying for it. Bah.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Good.
The A’s were going to have to face Smoak one way or another in the future… this way Texas is a little weaker long term. This is the best case scenario for Oakland in a world in which they must face Smoak within the division.
The monster at the end of this blog.
And in a world where the M's were going to get a lot for Lee anyway
why not subsequently weaken a division rival.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Smoak? really?
Well that would be dumb by Texas.
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Holy fucking shit.
I’m hearing Smoak+
So fucking dumb for the Rangers. They had better win the World Series.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
What about the A's trying to insert themselves into this Lee trade?
Could we grab something out of it?
Hard to see how the A's can get in the conversation
Although it would be cool to see a 3-way trade between division rivals.
The monster at the end of this blog.
It's the Rangers, geting Cliff Lee
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Joel Sherman twitter posted this
i have learned deal done with #Rangers, Smoak and 3 others for Lee and reliever Mark Lowe #Rangers, #Mariners
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3 others??!!?!
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Holy shit, this is gonna be hugely good news for the A's.
Even the playing field in the division. Mariners get better, Rangers get worse (long run).
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
And the Rangers aren't going to extend him with those bankruptcy proceedings
And Smoak >>>>>> two draft picks.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
If only Billy Beane had offered Smoak $50,000 more
WE’D HAVE CLIFF LEE RIGHT NOW!!!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
AND HE COULD BE BATTING BETWEEN
ETHEIR AND GONSALEZ!!!11
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm trying to decide if JD is a good GM or a bad one.
On one hand, the excellent drafting and signing/finding cheap talent……on the other hand, Bengie Molina, Adrian Gonzalez and Chris Young for Adam Eaton and others, and now Cliff Lee….
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I thin you kinda hit it.
Pretty good at the scouting and finding talent part, but not so good on the trade part.
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Great maneuvers by Zduriencik.
Textbook way to start a bidding war.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I need to see who the other prospects involved are
But I’m a big fan of Smoak and once the Yankees put Montero in the kitty it forced the Rangers into including Smoak.
Buy in for Lee was a premium hitting prospect, Z made that clear from the start. That means Smoak for the Rangers. The deciding point lies in the other 3 players leaving Texas.
The monster at the end of this blog.
According to Olney, Z only backed out with NY because of the 2nd guy's possible health issues.
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Olney tweeting that M's kicking in money = M's getting better prospects besides Smoak.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I wonder if it was also necessary because of the bankruptcy thing and the strict budget Texas has
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Beyond necessary.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Here's Lesson A on why the A's should eat Ben Sheets' salary in trades:
Heard this: SEA is kicking in $2.5 million in order to help offset the $4 million owed to Lee. In return, Texas gave a better package (more)
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
You mean like when they paid Mark Kotsay's salary and got Joey Devine back?
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Which is good
except that Devine has been legally dead for the last 2 years (though Kotsay has been officially labeled a Zombie)
Definitely.
Lots of contenders are desperate.
Also depends if Oswalt is on the market. But i heard McLane is once again asking way too much/not wanting to trade his stars.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Going to be tougher IMO to get max value
Max value for Sheets includes it being necessary for the A’s to pay out the rest of the contract. The Dodgers and the Rangers were the two teams most definitely in that position.
The Rangers are now out of the picture. (I’m guessing)
Other teams will still have interest in Sheets but the return won’t be as good if the A’s don’t need to include cash. And if I’m the GM on the other team I’d rather part with the lesser prospects and spend the cash.
The monster at the end of this blog.
If you're the GM, sure. If you're the owner, perhaps not.
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Any owner who hired me would be smart enough to let me make the deals my way
The monster at the end of this blog.
I'm sure you'd still have a budget that you would have to operate within, though.
Of course, there’s always the ability to not bother asking permission and just do the deal anyway, but… that’s a several million dollar chance you’d be taking.
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Goddamn heat wave here today and yesterday
No rain.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Low 90s yesterday.
High 80s today.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I agree with this 100%
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Post Sheets Rotation
Cahill
Gonzalez
Mazzaro
Mortensen
DL:
Outman(DL)
Anderson(DL)
Braden(DL)
Who is the 5th Starter? Ross? Mortensen is bad enough though.
Doesn't really matter at that point.
Halama? Jamey Wright?
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Wow he makes hitting home runs look effortless.
Wonder what it’s like to have a player like that.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
4:20pm: The Mariners will acquire two pitchers and a position player, plus Smoak, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (via Twitter).
Lone Star Ball is saying...
Josh Lueke
Matt Lawson (2B)
Blake Beavan
The monster at the end of this blog.
Damn, not as much as I hoped the Rangers would give up.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Not too bad, really
Beavan is a 21 year old SP who put up good numbers in AA but his stuff has slipped since getting drafted and he projects as a #4 SP in the Show.
Lueke turns 26 at the end of the year and is a relief arm with good K numbers in AA.
Lawson turns 25 this year and is in AA.
The monster at the end of this blog.
None of those guys were gonna have any impact on Texas's future. I was hoping the Rangers were giving up one other of their high upside guys.
If Chris Davis manages to fulfill his potential, the Rangers might not be hurting themselves at all.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Yeah. This is less than I figured it would be. Basically Smoak and spare parts.
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um the chances that Chris Davis find magic is 0-4 with 3 ks
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Funnay.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
heh
Ken_Rosenthal
#Yankees livid with #Mariners. Believed they had deal, then M’s took it to #Rangers saying put Smoak in and Lee is yours… #MLB
Jack Z is shrewder than we thought
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
heh.
kinda makes it better.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
someone had to stick it to them
Cause we sure didn’t.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The rich 5 year old is throwing a temper tantrum because it's the first time he wasn't the first kid on the block with the shiniest new toy.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Yuck the Fankees
LOL.
The only thing better would have been Tampa Getting Lee. Oh well.
The slegnA were dust and now are dusty(er)
Hey don't jinx it
I’m hoping we win a few this weekend.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 9, 2010 3:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If the reports are true that one of the Yankee's prospects had a bad ankle
Then they have nothing to bitch about.
The monster at the end of this blog.
It amazes me that David Adams killed this deal. Who the heck is David Adams?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 10, 2010 4:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Apparently a one-legged infielder
I think trading Cliff Lee entitles you to players with fully functional limbs.
The monster at the end of this blog.
No wonder we couldn't get him
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
FARK YOU, ENTITLED ARROGANT PIECES O' YOU KNOW WHAT!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Funny, except yo
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Bah.
Funny except you don’t want to get a reputation of screwing teams over. Then no-one will deal with you.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
until the next time you have something they need.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Over on the LL thread
There’s a filk song about Lee which apparently has something to do with Firefly.
I don’t get it, but maybe others here will.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
A proposition for the community to help my next post
Cliff Pennington doesn’t suck as much as DFA thinks and therefore finding a MIFer shouldn’t be the focus of our next trade.
True?
False?
Why
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 4:21 PM PDT reply actions
True
Pennington projects to be a 3 WAR SS at the end of 2010, is heading into his age 27 season and is going to make just over league minimum for the next two seasons. He offers solid value at his current level of play and the chance exists for some peak year improvement.
Do you pass up the next Hanley Ramirez if he’s offered? Of course not. But you don’t turn down a quality offer if it doesn’t include a SS.
The monster at the end of this blog.
The missing piece of information there
is how much do you think Pennington sucks.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
In this conversation...
Doesn’t “suck” offer a negative connotation?
The monster at the end of this blog.
True
1- He’s not great. I think everyone agrees on that.
2- I’m going all hardcore stats on you. Cliff Pennington is currently 5rd among all AL SS (qualified and unqualifed) in wOBA, 6th in the AL in SS ISO, 8th in UZR, and tied for 3rd in WAR among all AL shortstops.
AL shortstops as a whole are horrible. Some of it is fluke years that will regress back to normalcy (ex. Jason Bartlett), some of it is that some of these guys are old guys,
3- There really aren’t any elite SS prospects. On BA’s midseason top 50 prospects, there were two shortstops. One of them is Grant Green. The other was Dee Gordon of the Dodgers. There are other middle infield prospects outside of the top 50, but the position is scarce and thus likely to be overvalued.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
and, outside of elite prospects
I still can’t think of a lot of middle infield prospects that aren’t in the C-level. Grant Green is probably the best shortstop prospect in all MLB, and the A’s already have him.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I really like Ruben Tejada of the Mets
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 9, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya Pennington has outperformed enough to not be the worst problem on the team.
That would be lack of offense. You go and get two big time hitters — probably OF, but really anybody.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 10, 2010 4:30 AM PDT up reply actions
True
I’m a big Penny fan. Part of that may be that I love to see the A’s getting value out of their 2005 1st Round pick…
That being said, I think he’s a great asset to our team. I’m not huge into the “new-age” stats (at least yet), but I think he’s solid defensively and he provides enough offense and speed to make him a quality player IMO.
by bakerbeachboy on Jul 11, 2010 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions
The pick is a sunk cost and should not be considered.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Meant to ask this dfa
Are you in the camp that thinks we should trade Suzuki if there is high demand for him, or do you think we should sign him long term (or just go year to year with him for now)?
by bakerbeachboy on Jul 11, 2010 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Ive been beating that drum for a while
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Just curious... and not totally relevant to the thread
Why does it seem like in trade/roster posts, no one ever thinks a third baseman will last more than a year or two? I remember when people talked about Wallace, how he’d have to move to 1B soon, and how pretty much every good 3B prospect in baseball wouldn’t be able to stick there. Is the 3B defense throughout the minor leagues THAT horrid?
Just something I meant to say during the Wallace talk… and for whatever reason didn’t.
"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige
Teams want defense and power from their future 3B
For whatever reason that’s a fairly rare combination these days and yes, there is a shortage of candidates in the minor leagues to play the position.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Thanks
I wasn’t sure if that was just AN cynicism or what.
"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige
It's a step down from SS in terms of the athleticism required to play the position defensively.
So that limits guys that can play there straight away. Guys like Wallace have the bat you want for the position, but he was too unathletic – and he was only going to get bigger and slower.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
What about....
Corey hart. Hes available and if jonathon sanchez s all they are asking then why not???
Id give up donaldson+mazzaro+ A ball pitcher
Or Ross + Sweeney + whoever
I dunno 19 more homeruns and decent D would be nice in our lineup. Thoughts?
He's not under contract long enough
If he were signed through 2012 or 2013, different story.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Shopping List...
Eggs
Butter
Cliff Lee
Milk
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Looking at things from another perspective
What do we need to be successful in the next 1-2 years?
The way I view it, starting pitching is relatively secure. The Bullpen can be patched. The problem is our complete lack of offense.
Assuming that Cardenas and Brown get back on track, and Weeks comes back healthy, and hoping that Taylor can finally start hitting (a lot of ifs), what will our lineup look like in the next one or two years, and what are the holes?
If we keep Suzuki, Catcher is set, though we could deal him and promote Donaldson, with Ortiz and Stassi as backup plans for the future.
First Base could be held down by Barton, though I am worried about his production (he’s hitting well for an A, but a sub .800 OPS is still meh). Otherwise, Carter or Jackson could go to 1B.
Second Base could go to Weeks or Cardenas.
Short can go with Pennington until Green is ready.
Third can go to Kouzmanoff or Cardenas.
The Corner Outfield spots could go to Carter, Taylor and Jackson. I do not trust Sweeney with his knees, and advise trading him if we can convince a team of his value (the Royals are collecting Ex-WhiteSox, should we trust the process?)
Who goes in Center though? Corey Brown? Not a whole lot of options here unless you go with Rajai.
And DH would be for Carter unless someone is signed, and if Carter is not in the OF.
So the way I see it, if things go best case, we still have holes at CF, OF and DH. I think we should focus on trying to acquire someone during the off season for those positions. Real plus hitters if we can. Perhaps take a reclamation flag out on Grady Sizemore if we can pry him from the Indians. Josh Willingham is another player I would really like to acquire.
But with our pieces, can we acquire anyone who can help us in that regard, or is Suzuki our only chip that can return a premium player?
Cahill and Anderson can also return a premium player when combined with other stuff.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 10, 2010 4:33 AM PDT up reply actions
If I'm the Padres GM and I'm offered a healthy Anderson for Adrian Gonzalez
this offseason, I take that deal hands down.
Why not have Anderson and Latos running that rotation through the 2015 season
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Too bad we don't have a "healthy Anderson"!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or that Blicks isn't the Padres GM
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah Anderson>>>Gonzalez
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
You would trade Anderson for 1 year of Adrian Gonzalez?!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Sizemore is far from a "reclamation project"
He’s just injured this year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I was thinking from the perspective of blowing out your knee seriously enough that you're out for the season
combined with a bum elbow and a horrible 2010 season would be a reclamation.
And a great fit!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Because they really want more riots in Cleveland.
Everyone still loves Grady.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I want a riot of my own
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Obviously we dont have Jonathon Sanchez
But Milwaukee is offering Hart to the Giants for him. My point was we have talent equal to Sanchez and a serious power shortage..I understand he’s 28 n we wanna go young but another outfielder we aquired recently is the same age. Beane referred to him as young so why not Hart? If not him, another power bat? We have a surplus of mediocre talent along w a few above average talents, why not package 2 or 3 of them for one legitimate young/kinda young slugger. Teams have players like this available for the right price, and between the minors n majors, we have enough talent at C, 2B, and SP to make a move. Id be ok w giving up Sweeney n Mazzaro, or Donaldson, Tolleson n Mazzaro (of the many different packages we could offer) for that.
by Po' Boy on Jul 10, 2010 11:22 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Both of those packages would be really overpaying for Corey Hart.
Obviously they want pitching though, but I wonder if they’d be interested in Sweeney for Hart. They’d get cheaper and younger while adding defense at the expense of power.
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They'd be adding crap at the expense of a good hitter
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't like Hart's 2008 and 2009 seasons
Take those numbers and put them in the AL, and in the Coliseum. Do. Not. Want.
Now, he might have legitimately broken out in 2010, but let him finish the season with these awesome numbers before giving up large portions of the farm for him.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Why would you factor in playing at the Coliseum?
EVERY SINGLE HITTER faces a drop in their production moving to a pitcher’s park, so you could take anyone’s numbers and say “they’ll be _ points worse!” It’s graded on a curve — he’d be hitting alongside teammates and opponents facing the exact same “penalty.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I like the idea of making bringing the fences in to 200 ft and then trading for guys
who can reach that distance with their fly balls
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely -- until they have a new stadium
why not make the current one a better hitter’s park in any way possible? Tarp off the foul territory, put a land mine in left-center (“racing over, reaches up…he explodes and the ball is still in play!”), put “luxury yerts” along the OF so that it’s suddenly only 290 to the power alleys, and so on.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You think we struggle to attract free agents now?
Imagine if they have to sign a waiver clearing the team of all liability if they die on the field.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'll bet we'd sell out every game, though.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Maybe overpaying...
But something should be done about the power problem before the second half…I dunno how the rest of the league views Sweeney, but if they see him having same value as Sanchez then why not do 1 for 1 straight up. I’d still prefer to try n fill their holes/hold onto our position players already at MLB level. Donaldson + Mazzaro (or ross, or pretty much any pitcher not named Brett, Gio, or Trevor…Trade Sheets or Ellis for bullpen help n i think our team will be above mediocre in the next couple years…Oh yea, doesn’t have to be Hart any younger outfield slugger will do, he was just an easy example.
by Po' Boy on Jul 10, 2010 12:58 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Anyone who views Sweeney as having the same value as Sanchez is a moron
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, a SP who has never even been a 3 WAR player
vs a RF who was almost 4 WAR in his 2nd full season.
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Yes, but I'd also say Sweeney is quite overrated by many on AN
A UZR-inflated WAR one year that has prooperly regressed so that Sweeney profiles as what he really is: a high average slap hitter who plays above-average defense, with bad knees, at a position you usually get closer to 25 HRs than 1.
He’s a good player on a bad team and a bad player on a good team.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I wouldn't call him bad at all. Even on a good team.
He’s not a #3 hitter by any means, but he’s a guy that probably hits 7th on a good team.
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When healthy...Against RHP...
The fact that he has serious knee issues at 24 and actually has developed to have LESS power at a power position makes me not optimistic about his career going forward.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He's done well for himself, considering he was a throw in, but yeah he's regressing at this point.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Exactly. He was acquired as a 3rd/4th OFer,
outplayed that, is now becoming what he was originally supposed to be and that’s ok but not great. He should NOT, IMO, be part of the “contender nucleus” but should be sold high whenever he’s at his peak — if that window hasn’t already come and gone.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or they could just DL him until his knee gets better
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not that simple
Sweeney’s knee problems are chronic.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
link?
also im pretty sure chronic knee problems get better if you don’t keep playing on them when inflamed
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty sure he's got tendonitis in his left knee (if not both).
That’s pretty bad considering he’s 24.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Ben Sheets
The White Sox are back in the race in the Central… Jake Peavy is done for the year. Do they have any prospects left on that team? Sheets for Dan Hudson (I can bring my Huddy Jersey out of retirement)?
Ben Sheets:
5/8 – 6.1 IP, 2ER
5/13 – 6.0, 1ER
5/18 – 6.2, 4ER
5/23 – 6.0, 0ER
5/28 – 7.0, 3ER
6/2 – 6.0, 4ER
6/7 – 6.0, 3ER
6/12 – 6.0, 3ER
6/19 – 7.0, 4ER
6/25 – 6.0, 4ER
6/30 – 6.0, 3ER
7/05 – 7.1, 3ER
7/10 – 6.0, 0ER
If he pitches for the Yankees, he’s probably 9-2 during that stretch. How much trade value would he have then? I could see Beane sending Sheets to the Reds, White Sox, Mets, Philly, San Diego, St. Louis., Detroit… or any contending team who loses a starter in the next 3 weeks.
Ooh -- could we call him "Huddy"?
If so, I’m totally in.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Great job, grover
I realize I’m late to the party here and this thread may have been abandoned by now, but here goes:
*I think you guys have had a ton of great, intelligent discussions and mini-debates in here. And amazingly, to your credit, it all remained civil too. That’s a real credit to this community.
*I think I agree with vignette and dfa on exploring a trade for Zooks, probably this off-season, with the Rays and the Red Sox being my primary targets. The problem with the Rays is, they are perpetually trying to the same things we are, which is get younger and get cheaper. A Zooks trade is going the wrong direction for them, and when you bring up Zooks proposals on draysbay that’s exactly what they reply with. So, I’d rather deal Zooks to the Red Sox. Nick Cafardo has written a few times about the Red Sox exploring a deal for Zooks so maybe he’s heard the Boston FO discussing it. From the Red Sox, I’d want Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland. Kelly is having a disappointing AA campaign and Westmoreland is coming back from brain surgery (sensitive topic, I know, but it might make it politically impossible for Boston to deal him) but both of those players have TREMENDOUS talent. The type of 5-WAR-a-season talent that the A’s would need to gamble on to eventually win something.
*I agree with grover about exploring a carl crawford deal this off-season. I love the idea of having a star, well-paid African-American role model right as 4-5 extremely important African-American prospects are joining the major league team. I also would infinitely prefer the idea of (over?)paying $20M over seven years for a star rather than wasting $20M combined on four scrubby guys. As long as we didn’t give Crawford a NTC, we could ALWAYS eat a little bit of salary down the road and trade him for great prospects.
*However, if I had to pick between paying $20M a year for Crawford, and paying $20M a year to the Giants over seven years for them to yield their territorial rights, I pick the latter. 1,000 times out of 1,000. If the A’s could somehow, today, pay the Giants something to end this stadium fiasco and all the haggling, I’d be willing to watch them put a $30-40M team on the field until the new stadium opens. It’d be worth that to me, certainly.
*I think Donaldson can be a ML starting catcher. Not a great one, but passable. He’d fit right with our cheap-and-good-enough-to-start-but-not-good-enough-to-make-the-playoffs core of Sweeney/Penny/Barton/etc.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jul 11, 2010 8:07 PM PDT reply actions
Can we please not mention Westmoreland anymore with regards to Suzuki-to-Boston potential packages?
There’s a very slim chance he’ll even play baseball again, let alone regain top prospect status. Last I heard, he’s having problems trying to learn how to play catch again. He’s a non factor.
Any Suzuki package to Boston will built around Kelly and Kalish, and that package might not be impressive at all, depending on how much you like Kalish.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 11, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Late? Hell, been waiting on you!
And if it makes you feel better, I don’t think Crawford gets more than $17 million annual. For how long remains up in the air.
The monster at the end of this blog.
What would your thoughts be on a 4/80 offer, then?
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
I want a "blog option" for 2015,
as I believe it may be a “career year” for muppets.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How will he be able to put food on the table?!
Won’t somebody please think of the children!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
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