Vin-dicated! Mazzaro Excels As A's Win Series, Road Trip
by Nico on Jul 4, 2010 12:42 PM PDT
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PrintFor 3 innings, Vin Mazzaro got behind in the count and survived. For the next 4.1 IP, Mazzaro dazzled with a "giddyup fastball" and "ring him up" slider, throwing a career high 7.1 IP and 111 pitches, surrendering just one run and walking just one against 7 Ks. And yes, long-term this is supposed to be the A's #4 starter behind Anderson, Cahill, and Gonzalez.
Meanwhile, the A's pecked away at Fausto Carmona with a "hitless run" in the 1st (walk, passed ball, groundout, groundout) that was so strenuous Coco Crisp touched home plate and exited soon after with a "tight hamstring," then an Ellis RBI single in the 4th and an Adam Rosales blast into the LF seats in the 7th.
Ellis' single scored Jack Cust, who was on base three more times today (double, single, walk) and at this point if you don't think Cust should be on the team and in the lineup for this light-hitting A's team I have to question your sanity. Cust's line stands at .308/.418/.419, and no the A's don't have anyone who can get on base 42% of the time or anyone with an .837 OPS.
So the A's finish their "series against teams who really suck" 7-2, and come home to face the Yankees. Hey, Tuesday night is a matchup of two All-Stars: C.C. Sabathia vs. Trevor Cahill. Congratulations, Trevor.
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A lot of people gave up on Cust
Like those Indians who walked off the field on him in the 6th inning after strike two.
and while we're at it,
a lot of ppl gave up on Mazzaro – even using him as trade bit for a power bat.. ok, I was one of them. Glad we held onto Vinny.
by sf drift king on Jul 5, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I would still trade him for a power bat
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
it would have to be the actual bat, though, so everybody in the lineup could hit with it.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
I was thinking a plugged-in marsupial.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
you mean the wom kind?
the flying kind are not marsupial
Now you're driving me wombatty.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good win for the A's and we'll take it...
Congrats to Cahill for his AS selection.
Fire Geren!
Every man for himself...
Cust should bat in the middle of the order every day.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 12:54 PM PDT reply actions
I’d go with sixth or seventh.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I would put him in a spot where
singles are likely to drive in runs — such as #5 or #6. Against a RHP it looks like:
Crisp
Barton
Cust
Suzuki
Sweeney
Kouzmanoff
Ellis
Gross
Pennington
All the folks calling for Kouz to bat higher forget that he’s very pedestrian against RHP and has a low OBP, high DP — he should end the string of “middle of the order hitters” with some free slugging/RBIs. You need Barton and Cust up early, Sweeney then Kouz later.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Gross needs to be removed
CF Crisp
1B Barton
LF Jackson
DH Cust
C Suzuki
3B Kouzmanoff
2B Ellis
RF Sweeney/Davis
SS Pennington
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course Jackson needs to be healthy first
And so does Crisp.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Yes and no one else is allowed to get hurt
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree on Gross, but I'd platoon Jackson and Rosales and bench Davis
CF Crisp
1B Barton
DH Cust
C Suzuki
RF Sweeney
2B Ellis
LF Jackson/Rosales
3B Kouzmanoff
SS Pennington
You'd play Jackson vs whom and Rosales vs whom?
You want Sweeney to bat vs lefties?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya got me there
But Jackson should never be playing instead of Sweeney except on leg-resting days. Sweeney is a better fielder, a much better hitter against R, and probably about the same against L. Albeit who knows how Jackson will turn out after his long illness, he may be great or a bust, but so far not much there.
Jackson's a better hitter than Sweeney.
Assuming he gets back to the pre-Valley fever days.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Sweeney isn't close to as good against lefties as Jackson is
There is over a .200 differential in their OPS versus LHP.
I’m not trying to be mean but I don’t understand where you gather that Sweeney is about as good as Jackson against lefties, when Jackson’s OPS is still 60 points higher against them than Sweeney’s
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
this year*
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh, you can't platoon two right-handed hitters.
Well, you can, I guess, but the definition of the term means you’ve got one guy playing vs. lefties and one vs. righties. It helps if those guys don’t hit the same way (or if they do, there’s a massive split for one of them).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Gross could have increased his RBIs
by 25 percent today, with a couple of hits.
Very frustrating. Very telling with the IBB to Mark Ellis, knowing Gross won’t deliver.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jul 4, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I was mostly going with today's lineup --
which, of course, isn’t even tomorrow’s lineup since Crisp went coco-ka-PUTT.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He's supposedly available tomorrow. Braden was available tomorrow too on Friday.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd also not put Sweeney behind Barton or Cust
Because both of those guys are on first base A LOT. And Sweeney hits ground balls A LOT.
Now, it’s true that Sweeney (and Kouzmanoff and Suzuki) all have high GDP totals partially because Barton is on first so damn much, but it seems to me the best way to minimize that issue is to bat Cust right behind Barton, which is what you have.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
The only way I can see to avoid that problem
is to lead Sweeney off — which isn’t a bad idea — but I would tend away from Sweeney, Barton, Cust in sequence.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why not bat Ellis in between some of those guys?
He isn’t hitting for any power, but, well, neither is anybody else.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I see Ellis, Suzuki, Kouz all the same way:
They’re not bad, they just really don’t warrant being in those 2-5 slots…but…someone has to be.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bat Rosales cleanup!
LOL!!!!!!!!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Bat rosales cleanup in aisle 5!
Stupid bats, rosalesing everywhere…
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
At least they do it quickly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
We're overflowing with one liners today!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Townsend thread is here.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Congrats to Trevor
But it sucks that he won’t be allowed to compete. If anyone thinks they’ll replace him with someone else from our team then they’re a little too optimistic.
Another year that I won’t be watching the ASG.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
susanslusser
Geren says firmly that Cahill will start on Sunday. No possibility he will change that. #Athletics
2 minutes ago via Twittelator
susanslusser
Geren says he’ll talk to Girardi this week about possible #Athletics replacements for Cahill. (Bailey, Breslow)
3 minutes ago via Twittelator
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by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I hear Girardi respects Geren and values his opinion.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, he did pick Bob to be on the staff.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Because every other manager that is there is from
a California team.
Nice win! Now go consume alcohol everyone
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
Yup, the players voted in Adrian Gonzalez instead and then Charlie Manuel picked Ryan Howard. He also picked Omar Infante over the likes of Ryan Zimmerman and Rafael Furcal. Michael Bourn is in because he didn’t pick Roy Oswalt over Chris Carpenter.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Bourn isn't a terrible choice but Infante over Zimmerman boggles the mind.
Furcal is having a nice year, but he isn’t likely to be missed. I kinda think both Votto and Zimmerman will make it somehow though.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Out of all the National League shortstops, Rafael Furcal is having the best year. How Jose Reyes could be chosen over him is beyond me. Between Votto and Zimmerman, one can win the fan vote for the final spot. Jason Heyward has to be replaced, but I think Manuel will pick Jayson Werth.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess it's true that Furcal is having a better year than Reyes, but I don't see him as a better player.
I’m not really that interested in the “who’s having the best first three months” team.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I am. The All Star Game is supposed to recognize the best players that season
that’s why there is an ASG every year. It shouldn’t be an accumulated award or something given because a guy was good in previous seasons.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Not quite true
The fans vote for the starters, and that’s often based on accumulated quality.
Besides, the idea that last year’s second half goes completely unrewarded, and a good first half is the sole criterion is just plain unfair.
I guess you could vote for who's done the best since the last ASG
I still prefer to see the best players though.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
But what counts as a "Best Player"?
Is it the guy who is a second-half player and has great lifetime statistics but who struggles in April and May, or a player on an amazing hot streak for April, May and most of June, but then settles into mediocrity the rest of the year?
Also known as the Eric Chavez conundrum.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
All latter day struggles aside...
… it’s really too bad he never got to be an All-Star.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
My definition of the best player is the one whom I expect to have the
best season in 2010. So the past 3 years or so counts the most, the first half counts the second most and career counts the third most.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh, it's not so much about who IS the best player as who has performed the best.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Since "best player" doesn't change that much over a 5 or 10 year period
It gets really fucking boring to see 95% of the same guys over and over and over again.
I’m sorry, but if normally good players are hurt and/or sucking, they shouldn’t be there. I don’t care what they did year(s) ago.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm so you really want to see Alex Gonzalez and Jose Bautista?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
If they deserve it, they deserve it. I personally didn’t have Bautista on my roster and that may have been because of the stupid “every team gets a player” rule.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Your criteria would result in an exhibition that no one would watch....
thereby defeating the purpose of an exhibition
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t want to reward guys for what they did in 2007, 2008 or 2009 for a game that is played in 2010. It’s the 2010 Major League Baseball All-Star Game and therefore you should be rewarded for what you did in 2010. Why should Gonzalez and Bautista be penalized?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
This.
Though if people took the 2nd half of 2009 into consideration I would, to some extent, understand it.
I haven’t looked hard enough at all the players to know whether I’d want Gonzalez/Bautista on the roster over other guys this year, but if Alex Gonzalez has been better than Derek Jeter, then he deserves to be an All-Star over Derek Jeter. It doesn’t mean I want him on my team or that I think he’s better overall or anything. It just means that he gets rewarded in the game that rewards guys who have been the best so far this year.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, that's what the All-Star game is supposed to be
It rewards the guys who are doing the best so far in 2010. I’d rather they cancel the game forever than do it any other way.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
This is one of the biggest tragedies of the faults of the selection process
It is absolutely ridiculous. I just can’t believe how uninformed the fans, players and coaches are to not pick one of the best 5 players in baseball this year…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Votto has been the best hitter in the National League this season.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly.
It’s ridiculous. Votto has better numbers than Howard is virtually every single statistic. EVERY SINGLE ONE!
This snub alone is worth revisiting the All Star selection process.
Good riddance.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
This should be one of those things where Charlie Manuel is kicked out of the All-Star Game...possibly forever.
The game is meaningless, but blatant, unabashed stupidity should be punished.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
And it's not like it's a fluke
His numbers are almost the same as his full-season stats last year.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
And, Ryan Zimmerman has also been absolutely awesome.
Where the hell is Fire Joe Morgan when you need them the most. I just feel like the stupid around baseball media (which ASG is part of) has hit epic levels.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
If Breslow makes the all star team, then that would be one of the weakest and most boring all star picks you could make
I hope Suzuki gets picked. They are carrying 4 2nd basemen, so maybe they’ll carry 4 catchers.
I am very, very sure they will replace a pitcher with a pitcher.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Carmona is on the team because the Indians needed a rep (it should have been Choo) and Hughes is on the team because his manager is the manager. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and in this case it would be three. If an Athletic has to replace Cahill, make it Bailey. If not, the replacement should be Jered Weaver.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather see Suzuki, myself.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
The players picked Hughes
Not Girardi
"You seen my cell phone?" "What’s it look like?" "Like two horses f***ing. It’s a phone, son. It looks like a phone."
by CaliforniaJag on Jul 4, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd pick Gio over Bailey as well.
Neither Bailey nor Breslow is anything special.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd pick Bailey before
Breslow and Gio. Neither of those have earned it IMO.
Well none of the three has earned it.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
There are only two catchers
Joe Mauer and Victor Martinez were selected.
Victor Martinez is on the D.L. so John Buck replaced him.
Also, he only walked one.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
If you want to squint and find something good about him his starter FIP is something like 4.70
Also he’s healthy at the moment.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
If that FIP drops under 4.50
I’ll take him as our 5th starter this year…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Right now he's the 4th starter
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he won't be after the AS break...
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
davidmalamut
Oakland releases Shane Keough
2 minutes ago via TweetDeck
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 3:00 PM PDT reply actions
It's unfortunate that she's overshadowed the great Joe Keough and Matt Keough
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
347 minor league games with a consistent .604 OPS = bye bye
Or it means you’re a starter for the A’s.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Vin Mazzaro is 3-2 with a 2.99 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 5.23 K/9, 2.99 B/9 and .318 OBPA in his last six starts which have been against the Angels, Giants, Cardinals, Reds, Orioles and Indians.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 3:07 PM PDT reply actions
Hey, that's not bad...
1 poor lineup, 3 mediocre ones, and 2 above average lineups.
If that K rate goes up, which looks like it might, he will make me a very happy man…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I would say that the Reds have a really good lineup. They rank first in the National League in team wOBA.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
It's that good?
Well I guess hitting in an absolute bandbox and having 3 very good hitters helps…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 4, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
That 5.2 K/9 isn't good, and neither is the 5:3 K:BB
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m just saying out all statistics on the table.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Those statistics tell me his luck is about to take a turn for the worse
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 4, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he’s getting better from what we saw in May.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry, but I agree with Chris Townsend that Cust's line is pretty empty
People regularly blasted Chavez for hitting solo home runs when the game was already pretty much decided. I’m not sure why Cust — the so-called DH — isn’t treated similarly. Cust’s singles, doubles, on base percentage, etc. aren’t all that impressive when they don’t produce all that much. But you pay less, you get less, and that’s what we’ll settle for, and that’s what we’ll praise as our best hitter.
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
jesus christ this again?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, this again -- Nico devoted part of his recap to Jack Cust
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
Well, you know, he did play in today’s game and played really well.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
The guy has a freaking .418 OBP for the SEASON
You can’t do that without being really, really helpful to your team’s offense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 4, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
SSS notwithstanding
He’s been pretty miserable with runners on… basically anywhere.
Ask me about my squirrel.
and for his career hes better
SSS of something that has already been shown to be random.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call it random
More “human”. I suspect there’s good reason for the differences but we’d have to get inside Cust’s head to know what they are. But you are right in the statistical sense that all this is is random noise and not too much to get worked up over yet.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Does AN need its own incarnation of FJM?
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Yes
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2010 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Might I suggest you start it?
Ask me about my squirrel.
I think my vitriol isn't that funny all that funny.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 6, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah! How many RBIs does he have, after all!
He is so totally limiting himself to his own individual performance. What a selfish lout.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
His line with runners in scoring position, not so great
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
Oh man, you're so right. He probably lays off a bit when there's runners in scoring position.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Awesome retort!
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
How about this
He has a career .867 OPS with RISP – hint this is higher than his career averages. But it you want to put more weight into his 40 plate appearances this year then be my guest.
He really doesn't control that kind of stuff.
It’s a bit like penalizing a starting pitcher for his rotation spot coming up on a rainy day.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I'm not following
I know he can’t control whether other players get on base, but, if I’m not mistaken, his line is significantly lower when runners are on base and when runners are in scoring position. On this team, he’s still our most consistent offensive “force,” I get that, but is crazy to be underwhelmed?
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
No, I mean he can't really control his own batting line when other guys are on base either.
It’s not like some guys are able to turn on the jets in clutch scenarios. It’s pretty much random variation.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
But, but. Justin Morneau can!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Maybe you'll notice I've never mentioned Morneau, or Pujols, or Ryan Howard, or anyone else
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
First off, thanks for the civil responses, danmerqury
I really appreciate that. I’m not trying to be a dick, and I’m not dense ordinarily (I hope). I’ve just really been unable to understand Jack Cust’s value in a way that so many people here obviously do. Maybe it’s a misunderstanding of what he’s supposed to do as a batter, particularly since he brings so little else (like defensive skill) to the team, but I’ve always figured that as one of the only guys with any power on this team, he may often be called upon to approach his at-bats differently than, say, Davis or Crisp or Ellis. (For example, the benefit of contact might outweigh the risk of hitting into a double play.)
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
Thanks.
But yeah, it’s mostly his huge huge OBP. Even without the power this year, he’s been plenty valuable because of the OBP. It may not be as sexy as the home run, but there really isn’t a better skill at producing runs than a large OBP.
Plus, Jack Cust has been called to pinch hit in big clutch scenarios a lot recently. Pinch hitting is pretty hard to do, and pretty much everyone exhibits some kind of depressed batting line when pinch hitting.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
You ask a good question, Ray.
The numbers show that you are absolutely right in your perception that Cust has been less good with men on base and in leverage situations. It’s not unreasonable to wonder if this is his weakness as a hitter. When others jump in to say, “STATS PROVE THERE’S NO SUCH THING!!”, as sometimes happens on AN, that annoys me just as much as any old school dogmatism would.
However, as I detailed elsewhere in this thread, my conclusion after a broader review of the data is that that Cust’s current unclutchness is probably just random fluctuation. Something to watch and maybe be concerned about, but not an indication that he sucks as a clutch hitter.
As for Cust’s overall value, in past years he was a strong power hitter. This year, for whatever reason, his power has dropped dramatically, but his hitting for average has increased just as dramatically, while his strength in drawing walks has remained about constant. This change from power hitter to hitter for average is curious, and definitely something to speculate about, but the end result is that he’s still a very good hitter but in a different way now.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Thanks
I’ll keep these perspectives in mind as I watch in the future.
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
And in his 3 years with the team
He’s led the team in RBIs twice, and was 2nd once. So if he has some kind of big problem driving in runs, he’s sure been hiding it well.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
These statistics don't really look too hot:
RISP,
2007: .267; RISP with two out: .229
2008: .231; RISP with two out: .172
2009: .238; RISP with two out: .180
2010: .212; RISP with two out: .211
might want to look at OPS rather than BA
you know so you actually have some nacent idea of how he has performed.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously
In 2007, his OPS is that situation was 1.056. Late-and-close, 1.215. In fact, in 2007 his only situational OPS under .850 was when the margin was more than 4 runs.
In 2008, his 2 out, RISP OPS plummeted to .549, while he maintained great overall production (this is the kind of fluctuation that makes people conclude that “clutch” isn’t a real skill, but is a matter of SSS randomness). In 2009, it was back up to .834 in that situation.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Different ways to look at it
Home runs are relatively infrequent for most players, so home runs with RISP, which is a small sample size, or home runs with RISP and two outs, is an even smaller sample size. Cust had a home run drought with RISP in 2008, which is why the slugging percentage is so low. In a small sample size, three extra home runs over the course of 60-100 AB skew the SLG way up.
You can run these statistics through different wringers to get whatever result you want. My own take is that the larger the sample, the more accurate the statistic…so I’d tend to look at average in this regard rather than SLG, which really does depend on a larger sample size for accuracy. (i.e. Eric Patterson had a .408 SLG over 113 AB this year for the A’s, in large part to his four home runs; which were pretty flukey).
Why would you want to exclude the two most important things a batter can do with runners on?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Small sample size
Not excluding it, just saying that the smaller the sample size, the less important the data, and in a small sample size, SLG becomes very skewed.
Statistics are getting thrown around a lot here, and there are statistics to prove or disprove whatever people are arguing. The truth here - and the bottom line for most people anyway - is that most arguments about subjects people are passionate about (and Jack Cust, in baseball terms, is one of them) is that the opinion comes before the argument, and the argument just buttresses the opinion.
So - I look at raw numbers of RBIs and knowing that the A’s over the past few years have been middle-of-the-pack in terms of runners on base, and Cust has been residing mostly in the middle of the line-up, he’s simply not driving in runs. Then someone says, “But wait, he leads the team,” So I say, “Look at this RISP average,” so someone says, “Look at his RISP slugging percentage,” and I say, “The sample is too small,” and so on and so forth.
To me, the ONLY argument that indicates Jack Cust may be more “clutch” than a lot of folks think is a fangraphs statistic someone cited about fifteen Cust arguments ago which indicated a very good RISP line-drive rate. The rest of it is just blah blah blah.
This quite frankly is a terrible arguement
you cant say that the sample size is to small when you are using the same sample with a statistic with the same convergence rate.
Over his career Cust hits 10% better with RISP than he does without. Thats just a fact.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Sounds like you're looking for statistics that quickly stabilize
SLG actually stabilizes in a smaller sample than BA.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
He's certainly been a better hitter this year, no doubt
But it seems like a station-to-station singles hitter who bats .300 isn’t necessarily much more valuable than a guy who has a much lower average but hits the ball out of the park. Cust is a liability on the bases, and he has simply increased his amount of time spent on base. In the long run, I wonder how that will affect his run scoring.
I'm pretty sure
that something like wOBA would account for that, and that there would be some cross-over point where if you got your slugging high enough, you could have a higher wOBA than someone with a high OBP but very low slugging.
Unfortunately, we don’t have anyone doing any slugging these days on the A’s.
Oh, definitely.
Just look at Justin Morneau and Miguel Cabrera. Their OPS is identical, but Morneau is actually worth more (by wOBA), because his is more OBP heavy than Cabrera’s.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
i still disagree about the OBP meaning more
Ask me about my squirrel.
I found out why I was getting confused last time.
Instead of 2*OBP + SLG = run
a better way to put it would be 2*OBP + SLG = number of runs
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I don't see how that really changes anything
It still suggests you need to divide OBP by two to be equal to SLG which suggest SLG is twice as important as OBP. And it doesn’t qualify the other factor:
Homerun:
4.000 SLG, 1.000 OBP, 5.000 OPS
Bases loaded = 4 runs, 10 bases
Bases empty = 1 run, 4 bases
Single:
1.000 SLG, 1.000 OBP, 2.000 OPS
Bases loaded = 1 run, 4 bases
Bases empty = 0 run, 1 base
So just getting the homerun adds 4 times the active value of moving people around than a single base. OBP heavy on slugging suggests that you’re moving anyone else on base by a higher multiplier than through simply getting on base by a single. Both net the same 1.000 OBP, but one nets you more in terms of run development. I get that OBP translates to more runs, but it seems like a result that you need guys on to actually score them, not that they’re value is actually higher.
I’m not saying I’m right in any way and I’m certainly not saying you’re wrong. It’s just looking at the above suggests SLG is more important than OBP towards creating runs.
Ask me about my squirrel.
A lot of that has to do with the fact that SLG maxes out at 4.000 while OBP maxes out at 1.000.
The rest is way too long to explain here, but this piece I wrote a little while ago covers both wOBA and the OBP/SLG stuff.
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2010/5/25/1486432/statistically-significant-woba
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Youve got it backwards.
Basically OPS is wrong because it over values slugging and undervalues getting on base. Each item is linearly weighted in wOBA
(0.72xNIBB + 0.75xHBP + 0.90×1B + 0.92xRBOE + 1.24×2B + 1.56×3B + 1.95xHR) / PA
But at the end of the day basically a Home Run is valued at 5x the value of a Walk in OPS when in fact it is less than 3x that value in terms of actually helping your team create runs. A double is 3x walk in OPS when in fact it is less than 2x that value in terms of actually helping your team create runs. This is why it slugging is over valued by OPS, because the scale is off.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't get TOO focused on "singles hitter"
He has hit doubles lately, he’s starting to drive the ball more, and so the stretch of being strictly a “singles hitter” is a pretty small sample. Sure, I wish he had more than 2 HRs, but he’s still doing a LOT to help any offense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
thank you for those items that you sent me
I mean the monkey and the plywood violin
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 5, 2010 4:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm a bit concerned that balls he absolutely KILLS hit the warning track or the wall
I think it’s possible he’s lost some power, but if he can hit a bunch of doubles, he’s still got some value.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
You mean like the double yesterday? Carmona thought it was gone.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Baserunning is a hugely overrated factor.
It’s nice, of course, but the importance of baserunning and stealing is dwarfed by the ability to actually get on base in the first place.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
And Cust isn't nearly as bad on the bases as people think
At least compared to other “basecloggers”
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
The Angels sure don't overlook it.
Going first to third, stealing bases, not getting doubled up on line drives etc etc.
It’s part of the reason why they’re constantly so good.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Cust is not a "liability on the bases"
He is an average baserunner. He’s not slow. People assume that just because he’s a DH with lousy defense he must be slow, but he’s not.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Actually studies show that Cust is a fairly good base runner
not in a steal bags kind of way but in a not getting thrown out doing stupid stuff and is faster than you think.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 4, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly if you aren't "trying to be a dick" (your words not mine) try reading some of AN over the last three years
or the last Cust thread. Basically everything that youre saying is completely debunked and has been time and time again, so often to the point that these kinds of comments amount to the equivelent of trolling but Ill go through all of them even thought there are several here that have.
The worst thing as an offensive player that you can do is make outs. Jack Cust doesn’t make outs. Right now Jack Cust has a wRC+ of 133 which means that he is 33% better than average at creating runs measured wOBA which properly weights the outcomes of at bats based on how often they lead to creating runs, which is a huge number. In 38 games Cust has been worth .7 wins above replacement level talent (and even more over Zombie Chavvy) so over a whole season thats about 2.5 Wins or significantly above league average. That is why Jack Cust is valuable.
As for his empty line and his lack of clutch, Jack Cust has a tOPS+ of 110 with RISP which means he hits 10% better than his overall line when he is in clutch type situations. Looking at the RISP stats this year from a data perspective is insane because it only contatins 33 AB with RISP which is way way way too small a sample size to make any conclusions from.
The other thing is that you have to remember that the way humans remember is we cling to events that are tramatic and think they happen way more than they do. For example you are far far more likely to die eating a cookie than by getting bit by a shark, but you don’t see Cookie Attacks 3 in theaters near you. Why not, well because our brain through evolution is hard wired to see big traumatic changes and threats. We weren’t living long enough to be killed by insideous things like cholesterall so we don’t properly evaluate the risks/rewards of small things that happen often which is why in your mind Cust is less awesome than he really is since a big K to end an inning is far more dramatic than the way Cust helps a club.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great. Now I'm afraid of sharks AND cookies.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If our choices were Chavez or Cust as the DH, I will take Cust anyday of the week.
Haven’t heard much from Chavy as of late have we? Some serious neck strain eh?
Every man for himself...
Oy Vey
I hate the anti-clutch belief in sabermetrics. Somethings cannot be explained with statistics. Like how some players actually do hit better in clutch situations, or how the Angels can still be good every damn year
On that note
I thought one explanation of a “clutch hitter” is a player who’s able to hit close to his overall average when runners are on base.
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
On average, hitters hit slightly better when
runners are on base. This is probably because it’s slightly harder to defend when runners are on base. Possibly also, the fact that runners are on base is an indication that the pitcher is having trouble, or is about to be replaced by someone who is even less good.
A hitter who hits close to his average with runners on base is probably slightly LESS clutch than average.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
And the pitchers are pitching from the stretch
for many starting pitchers it is a little disadvantage
It wouldn't be prevalent if the numbers didn't back it up.
No sabermetrician will dispute that home-field advantage exists. Because the numbers clearly show that to be true. Clutchness, on the other hand, not so much.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I can dig that a little bit
But some things just have to eye-balled and experienced. Not most things, but a small number of things. I think clutch performance is one of them.
For example, by the numbers, Kobe Bryant misses a lot of potential game-winning shots. But he makes some important ones, too. Some players have a better shooting percentage in the final five minutes of games, but is there any basketball fan who, given the choice, doesn’t want the ball in Kobe’s hands in the final seconds?
Doesn't this bring up a more important question
“Should Kobe actually be taking those shots?”
I don’t know the answer, but I do know that what people “want” is not good enough justification.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem with that is that baseball is unique.
In every other sport, you have some time to think about things, so I’d assume that clutchness does arise. But hitting a baseball is such an instinctual thing that clutchness isn’t a factor.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
A fan of the opposing team?
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Of course you want the ball in Kobe's hands...
because he’s one of the best players in the game…and obviously the best player on the Lakers. No team in their right mind would put the ball in Jordan Farmar’s hands, for example, at the end of the game instead of someone like Kobe…even if the numbers showed Farmar was “clutch”.
The argument for “clutchness” is that certain players actually raise their overall performance (above their career line) in high stress situations. I think it’s someone meaningless to talk about how stars like LeBron and Kobe are clutch. Of course they are supposed to be hitting the big shots…they are super stars. But, I’ve heard often that Derek Fisher is ridiculously clutch…and obviously he’s not really a star. So, I’d be interested in seeing whether the stats actually prove this widespread belief…(too tired to look them up right now).
However, as someone mentioned below, baseball is a completely different animal…and the “clutch” factor appears to be completely unprovable…
Again, Baseball Reference is great for this kind of data.
In 2010, Cust’s hitting is indeed noticeably lower both with men on base and in high-leverage situations, though the data sample is too small to draw strong conclusions from it.
On the question of “control”, I don’t agree with Dan. Although studies of all players have shown that hitting better or worse in certain leverage or men-on-base situations is not repeatable generally, I don’t think the evidence is sufficient to conclude there can’t be patterns for individual hitters. Of course it isn’t so simple as a hitter deciding to be better when it matters most, but it’s not at all implausible that psychological factors affect a hitter’s current skill level and game situations can affect the psychological factors. There are also plausible non-psychological factors that might make certain hitters better or worse with men on base, having to do with defensive positioning, pitchers’ adjustments, and so forth.
Looking at a somewhat larger sample of Cust’s career numbers, the pattern we see for 2010 goes away: Over his career Cust hits better with men on base, just as most hitters do. In leverage situations, he’s strongest in medium-leverage situations, but still better in high-leverage than in low-leverage.
Given that, I’d guess that his relatively poor “clutch” hitting in 2010 is just statistical noise.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Although studies of all players have shown that hitting better or worse in certain leverage or men-on-base situations is not repeatable generally, I don’t think the evidence is sufficient to conclude there can’t be patterns for individual hitters.
This is fair. Unfortunately, when you leave the aggregate and try to focus on one player’s numbers, the sample size required to filter and cancel out all extraneous factors and statistical noise becomes far larger than any player would ever achieve. So, the answer to that is that it’s plausible, but we can’t confirm it or deny it, as it’s untestable.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I would agree except for one point.
As far as I’m concerned, “extraneous factors” is not something to be filtered out. To the contrary, it’s exactly what we’re trying to measure.
What I want to know is if player X hits better or worse in certain situations. Whether that due to him “controlling” his skill or an “extraneous factor” doesn’t really concern me; I just want to know if there’s a pattern.
The reason I so often quibble about the difference between “untestable with existing data size” and “shown not to exist” is because the latter implies that the question has been answered so we may as well stop looking. When something is untestable by the data we have, it may well still be a good question, something that we can analyze and try to answer using other means, while recognizing that on this point sabermetric analysis can’t really tell us much.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I think the best explanation is the one that PT has given a million times
that baseball self selects for people that can perform in the clutch, eg people that are able to deal with the pressure of high leverage life situations like a million scouts watching your game before getting drafted so that players who couldn’t perform in the clutch would be weeded out which is why there is nothing but noise when you look at players and are trying to determine a clutch factor.
Also nobody knows what the fuck clutch actually means.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Clutch seems "easy"
(Another argument waged ad infinitum on AN), but I’d rate “clutch” as maintaining a similar or better numbers when in higher pressure situations. Not being “clutch” would be having significantly lower numbers in higher pressure situations. For lack of a better example, this year (again SSS totally notwithstanding which makes this both a good example and a pretty bad one) Cust has been most definitely not clutch so far this season. Over his career he’s been clutch.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Jein*
*A German word, coined out of “ja” and “nein”, used when one agrees with some parts of the argument and not with the others. Great word, only topped by “doch”. I miss them both in English.
I couldn’t agree more with this part:
The reason I so often quibble about the difference between "untestable with existing data size" and "shown not to exist" is because the latter implies that the question has been answered so we may as well stop looking. When something is untestable by the data we have, it may well still be a good question, something that we can analyze and try to answer using other meansHistory teaches us that many presumptions were proved wrong once the quality of our analysis improved. Atom is not atomic.
.
However, I also strongly disagree with:
As far as I’m concerned, "extraneous factors" is not something to be filtered out. To the contrary, it’s exactly what we’re trying to measure.
No, it is not. It is looking for patterns for patterns’ sake. It might even be counterproductive – by selecting certain individuals that fit the arbitrary pattern, you might be missing on the ones who really possess the skill.
.
What if a player really possesses the quality to perform better in high leverage situations, but 50% of such occasions came in 2006-2008 vs. Rivera and Papelbon? You will miss a skill, because you focused on a meritless pattern.
.
You might filter a guy who performs better with runners on base, ignoring the fact that he had many more such plate appearances when he was moved to a four slot because he finally recovered from the lingering effects of the wrist injury that kept him hitting ninth for four months.You will find a pattern, but not a skill.
.
And so on.
.
The smaller the sample size, the less brute force can be used in analysis. Extraneous factors tend to cancel themselves out with sufficient quantity of observed samples. When you analyze big enough sample size, you don’t really need to understand every circumstance, yet you will be able to notice significant tendencies.
.
No such luck with small sample sizes. If anything, extraneous factors need be filtered out more rigorously, to save that precious few data samples we have from pollution. The challenge — and the main reason why definite answers have not yet been given on such topics — is recognizing them, as it is an arbitrary process full of assumptions. However, if you don’t filter them, you are not one bit smarter for having found your patterns. You are left looking for a skill with a tool that is no better than the one the others use when denying that same skill. The skill might be out there and it might be testable in a way not yet used. But, finding outliers without understanding how and why they happen is not moving any closer towards the answer.
by elcroata on Jul 5, 2010 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
this is fantastic stuff
highly rec’ed
PS can we stop making really quality stat arguments in the week that I decide to bitch about their not being quality stat arguments. Its making me look like an ass.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
are you saying my haircut is fantastic stuff
because if you are I have to agree
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Cindi's on the fence.
When she gets down, though, I’ll ask her what she thinks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I guess I misunderstood what
you/Dan meant by “extraneous factors”. Here it sounds like you’re defining extraneous as anything non-repeatable. I thought Dan meant anything not owing to the player’s volition (which might still be repeatable).
As you’ve explained it, I’m on board with the rest of you.
(I do enjoy looking for patterns for patterns’ sake, though. If, for example a relief pitcher over the course of four games faced 14 batters and the first letter of those batters’ names spelled “C-O-N-S-T-A-N-T-I-N-O-P-L-E”, that would surely excite me more than any meaningful baseball stat I’ve ever seen.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I encourage Ray of Lite to really listen to iglew here
iglew isn’t really one of the “Stat guys,” but he puts it so perfectly here.
It’s not that 2010 doesn’t say he’s been bad in those situations. It’s not even impossible that he’s somehow lost certain skills that allowed him to be good in those situations previously. But his history suggests that he’s not nearly as bad in those situations as you think, and it’s far more reasonable to expect him to get better than it is to expect him to remain bad.
Plus, overall, he’s been good. Very good. And the truth is the A’s just don’t win (or lose, actually) enough blowout games for ALL (or even most) of Cust’s positive performance to be in meaningless situations.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Can someone answer why we hit .268 with no one on base
and .246 with RISP.
I really would like to hear opinions on this. One would think that we should hit above .270 with RISP. Of course if we had a couple extra power hitters it would not be so glaring in the final result.
And it's .226 with 2 outs and RISP
Just to add to the above so please take that into consideration as well.
It is a bit odd
My only “shoot from the hip” take is that you start with the premise that the A’s aren’t a good hitting team, period. What team is likely, for any or no reason, to hit .022 points worse with RISP? Probably a bad hitting team, putting bad hitters in those situations over and over. I’d still expect it to be .000 points worse/better, but somehow it seems fitting that it’s the A’s, not the Rangers, hitting .022 points worse.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree we have a bad hitting team with no power
The Royals who hit only 55 home runs, 3 more than us but hit .282 as a team and .281 with RISP only 1 point worse.
AS you can see, they have no power but they have hitters who know WTF they are doing in RBI situations compared to ours
I think Nico nailed it, but what are some of the other numbers?
Do they do anything differently in these situations? More Ks? More ground balls (so more DPs)? More pop outs? Fewer walks? More walks (since, a walk, while good, doesn’t usually drive the run in and it obviously isn’t counted in BA)?
It could just be some random chance. What about last year? The team is mostly the same.
I have no idea if the team is somehow worse w/RISP or if they’ve just performed worse so far, but I suppose it’s worth looking into.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Last Year the A's hit .263 for the whole season
and .272 with RISP.
That is 26 points higher.
BA alone gives you almost no concept of offensive performance
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The A's as a whole really are worse with RISP this year.
You can see all the team splits on Baseball Reference.
Here’s the AVG/OBP/SLG for the past four years.
overall bases empty w/RISP
2010 263/325/381 268/329/385 246/317/349
2009 262/328/397 254/314/388 272/353/413
2008 242/318/369 237/309/368 259/355/377
2007 256/338/407 253/327/405 246/340/392
I don’t see any pattern going back over the long run there. We were worse with RISP in 2007, too, but not in 2008 and 2009. Overall hitting in 2009 is almost identical to 2010, so I don’t by Nico’s semi-explanation that we’re just a bad hitting team so that makes sense. The 2009 team was equally bad and it did better with RISP.
(In 2007 the A’s were worse than their average with bases empty and with RISP, a seeming contradiction that is explained by the fact that that year they hit particular well with just a man on 1B. Go figure.)
My gut feeling is there’s nothing to read into it. The A’s really are hitting worse with RISP this year and that sucks, but I think it’s just a random run of suck, not some specific change in approach to be fixed.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I just mean good hitters probably stay more consistent
while bad hitters can more easily randomly suck really bad because they basically suck. Or something like that. It’s probably not true but it sounds good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Rather than batting average with RISP,
I like to use WPA’s clutch rating. First of all, it counts everything that batting average doesn’t (HRs, doubles, walks, etc) and rather than RISP, where it’s either yes or no, the leverage index in WPA quantifies how clutch a situation is. You know, bases loaded with two outs in the ninth in a tie game > man on first with one out in the sixth down by one run > no one on in the second inning up by 14.
Anyway, we rank 16th out of 30 teams, at -0.15 wins below perfectly non-clutch. You can’t really get much more average than that.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Er, by "perfectly non-clutch"
I mean perfectly average clutch.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Ive always considered Iglew a stats guy.
He understands stats better than most of the posters here, especially their limitations, and adopts the language and type of argumentation and debate that stats people have. Often he just doesn’t buy what stats people are selling which doesn’t make him not a stats guy, just a skeptical one.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions
For me it's not about stats vs non stats.
It’s about elaboration vs simplification.
This is why you will frequently see me cite Baseball Reference but rarely or never see me cite FanGraphs. Both are great sites with a lot of great information, and I use them both about equally, but in a way they are opposites. One is about compressing information and one is about expanding.
The typical theme of a visit to FanGraphs is “you’re telling me too much, please summarize” while the theme of a visit to BR is “you’re not telling me enough, please elaborate”. So, for example, if you’re feeling like the basic stats you’re reading about a guy aren’t telling the whole story, you go to BR and hunt down all the splits and try to find deeper patterns. On the other hand, if you’re overwhelmed by all the different aspects of a guy’s game and not sure how to weigh them and you just want one simple number you can trust to tell you how good he is, then you go to FanGraphs.
Neither is better than the other, they’re just different. And by personal temperament — in baseball and anything else — I’m an eloboration guy, not a simplification guy.
I don’t think I’m any more skeptical than you are either. I’m just skeptical in a different way. For example, you and PT are generally much quicker to dismiss something as statistical noise than I am. That’s a skepticism I don’t share.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I avoid BR exactly because of what you are saying
I think 90% of the stats they put up there are just noise because of the sample size. Also im a big believer in linear weights which they don’t have and so I see the information that is presented at BR as being less accurate just on that account.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 2:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Yup, you're a FanGraphs guy.
That’s the big difference between you and me, not stats vs non-stats.
Your perception of BR’s as “less accurate” is a function of what you’re looking for. Of course you’re not saying they’re actually inaccurate. If BR tells you that Arthur Rhodes faced Darryl Strawberry one time and it was a HR, you’re not saying that’s false information, you’re just saying you don’t care because you can’t draw any meaningful conclusion from it.
You are so focused on conclusions that you assume anyone else who finds the fact interesting must be drawing a conclusion and therefore you label it as “less accurate” even though obviously it isn’t.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Which is why I enjoy your presence in these debates so much because youre a counterbalancing force
Id rather know what I know and know what I don’t know. BR skews that distinction more than fangraphs IMO.
And yes Im all about the conclusions.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Have you ever taken the Myers-Briggs?
You’ve gotta be ISTJ!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not to my knowledge
should I? I mean is it different than the hey take this internet personality/iq test pop up ad kinda thing.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Myers-Briggs is for real.
I can’t think of a personality classification scheme that is more respectable. There are a couple different implementations of it in terms of the questions.
At least one of them does show up somewhere on the internet as a do-it-yourself test, so you could take it there if you like.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I find the internet ones pretty accurate
(in that they always come out for me the way I do in longer versions), but part of that may be that I am very strongly the type I am (INTJ).
Give it a shot, DFA — it’s fun and if you tell me how you come out I can give you a sense of the “profile” that goes with it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
ENTJ
the Rational Field Marshal apparently
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting --
The N actually does make sense with your political/activist interests and passion and so on, all of which are more indicative of the N style.
I thought S because of the “facts” over “intuition” and “science” over “philosophy” qualities, but NTJ makes sense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Can i take facts and phillosophy and leave science and intuition to others?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting how close we all are.
As I recall, INTJ is one of the more rare combinations, but here there’s two of us. DFA and Croata are only one letter off, and Pam is only half a letter off.
Is there something about the A’s or Internet communities or this particular community or this particular thread or this particular subdiscussion that attracts INTJ’s?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I was thinking the same thing
INTJ is only 2-3% of the population.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What does that mean
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
its what my result was
I think it means I am unbelievable.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
I used to be ENFP when I was younger...
now my results are INFX
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jul 5, 2010 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you talking about me or DFA?
(You must mean me because no way in hell is DFA ISTJ.)
No, I’m INTJ. I’ve done the test twice at different times in my life and the numbers were quite a bit different, but the letters were unchanged.
Funny that S-N is the one you’d guess wrong, since it seems most relevant to the current discussion. Maybe I should try the test again; it’s been a while.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It would be cool to know what ANers test out as from Myers-Briggs.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Im trying to find a test that doesn't cost money to do so I can report back
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I know there is one.
I’ll try to find it.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The last time I tested
I was probably 21 or 22. I was INXJ. 50/50 between T/F.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Here is the one that's free online.
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp
It’s something of a knock-off since it’s not one of the original questionnaires, but it’s still decent. When I was in marriage counseling a few years ago, our counselor said it was good.
I like the version (Keirsey, I think) that has the question: “Which is worse, to be merciless or to be unjust?” That has got to be the coolest moral question ever.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
and whats your answer?
Id probably go with merciless because justice often requires mercy.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't have an easy answer.
It depends on my mood, but for the past few years I’ve mostly gone with mercy.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The answer is, "Go read 'Measure for Measure' and 'The Merchant of Venice'"
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
do I have to? my personality test says i would rather just make a rash decision
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the one I just found and took.
It came out INTJ, but only as a 1% on the T, so with the real test I bet I would still be an X in that category.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Interesting.
ISTJ, although the S is 1%.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
When it shows 1% that means
strongly indicated, right? The scoring I remember range 1 to 100 with one letter at one end and one letter at the other end, so a number close to 50 is what’s marginal.
My notes tell me that my numbers were I=67 N=38 T=1 J=44 when I took it at a time of deep emotional crisis, and then I=89 N=12 T=12 J=33 when I took it again later. I want take it again now but expecting people over momentarily, so no time.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Oh, really?
I had assumed that it was 1 to 100 on one letter, and then 1 to 100 in the opposite direction for the other letter. So 1% would be essentially straddling the line between S and N.
Just a guess, though. Not really sure what I’m talking about.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
That's what I assumed/remember.
Been a while though.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hmm, looks like I'm remembering
wrong and you guys are right.
In that case my comment above about my numbers the two times I took it aren’t correct, though I was still INTJ both times.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Uh, I mean
the numbers I listed are the right ones, but where I comment on which ones are marginal and which ones are strong I interpreted that part wrong.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I got ENTJ
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
which i think was really entirely predictable.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
those were my numbers almost exactly
freaky
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, it was your own counseling
For a second I thought you had another highly interesting job on your curriculum.
That seems easy to me (but then I'm the wussy, woolly INFP)
One could be unjust by mistake or inattention, even unjust through good intention. But to be merciless isn’t just lacking in mercy, it’s knowing what the merciful thing to do is and choosing to do the opposite. So to be merciless is much worse.
It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.
Dude, we're opposites...
INFJ.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 5, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Did we do the Myers-Briggs when you were in my class?
I know I’ve done that unit some years and not others.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
wait you taught king richard?
wow
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
The person, not the play.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
ISTJ
22/1/1/1
I am a:
* slightly expressed introvert
* slightly expressed sensing personality
* slightly expressed thinking personality
* slightly expressed judging personality
What the hell does that mean?
In a nutshell,
it means you tend probably to be an independent thinker with a small group of close friends who prefers that which is real, provable, tangible, objective, rational, and see the process as a means to an end (the “destination” is more important than the “journey”).
ISTJ’s make great pilots, surgeons, etc. because they follow instructions well and can put emotions aside in favor of rational and objective truth.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
do me, do me! I'm INFJ.
...being a role model I probably wouldn't recommend eating dirt. But at the same time, I'm not trying to be a role model. I'm just trying to eat some dirt.
Uh oh. I must be awful and Nico's too nice to tell me. :/
...being a role model I probably wouldn't recommend eating dirt. But at the same time, I'm not trying to be a role model. I'm just trying to eat some dirt.
They're all equally good or bad
Well, except INFJ…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
All sixteen combos are listed on Wikipedia.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I just went back and looked at my numbers
The one on which I’m most marginal is J/P. The I and the T are both solid. The N/S was close one time and not so close the other. I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m marginally INTP now; I think I’ve been trending toward P as I’ve gotten older.
I would guess ESTJ for DFA, though of course it’s always dangerous to guess someone else, especially someone you know only in a certain context, since often there’s a whole other side to a personality you don’t see.
Curious if our N-S is swapped from what you’d expect in the current discussion, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence; I think we each seek in the numbers what we don’t already have in our heads.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I meant DFA
I wouldn’t know I vs. E, but he seems (to me) strongly S, T, J in his leanings towards “Scientific” and “truth based” thinking along with only being interested in conclusions, not process.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I felt sure about E for DFA
I don’t think you take the jobs he does if you’re I. Ditto for the dance clubs etc.
If I’m understanding the scores correctly, Croata said 50 on the N-S scale and DFA says his numbers were similar, which suggests they’re both marginal on N/S, which sounds reasonable to me. The T=1, on the other hand, would be solid, which also sounds right to me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Yes, I should have guessed "STJ"
without regard to I/E because I didn’t know or remember anything distinctive one direction or the other on I/E. That’s what I meant to mean.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Next week we'll do enneagrams.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
A very good friend of mine does those.
Apparently, I’m a rare number for a male, so I gotta go to his next seminar. Case study.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 5, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Hi there Mr. Bloom
I’m a case study at an arts seminar this summer…they needed a rare specimen to pose in the nude.
I did the Myers test everyone was doing and I’m a ESFJ….two others are Bill Clinton and Donald Duck….this makes me happy.
None of the numbers are that rare, are they?
I was 5 with a 4 wing. The 5 is my detached intellectual observer personality, and the 4 is my romantic and potentially neurotic artist poet side.
I’m not aware of a test for them though. You just read about them and think about what you are, and then hopefully that helps you to understand yourself and others you are trying to get along with.
One of the books had a paragraph about how 5w4 relates to other people that was uncanny in its accuracy. A lot of that stuff used to be on Wikipedia but it’s gone now, probably removed for copyright violation.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Stats are knowledge. Knowledge alone does not always bring wisdom. Often, it even stands in a way.
That’s why I don’t really like the classification of people into stats guys and non-stat guys — often used on this site — when it is supposed to somehow separate the ones who dig from the ones who don’t.
Knowing two dozen offensive metrics does not make smart by itself. Nowadays, everyone can easily go to FanGraphs and/or BR and quote a certain stat. It is knowing when to use which one and why that separates, not how many of them one can quote.
by elcroata on Jul 5, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree whole-heartedly with your subject line
I would add that knowing when stats are illuminating, and when they are misleading, is paramount. Sometimes you have to say, “Well, the stats say…” and sometimes you have to say, “The stats say _, but that says something about the stat, not the player.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Youre right of course
but thats why when I refer to people as stats posters it has far more to do with how they construct an arguement than how many statistics they use. Same thing when I use the term intellectual posts, which doesn’t depend on the use of stats at all but the construction of an argument in a post.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
You use it in a way I would, too
But I do believe that a lot of people have a different interpretation and use it accordingly.
Ironically perhaps, from that analysis
I would conclude that I am a “skeptical stats guy,” just like iglew, which is pretty far from being “anti-stats.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You construct your arguments differently
where as iglew stays in the “stats” framework you break out of it far too often from me to classify you as such. You are still more knowledgable about stats than most traditionalists but I would have to classify you as such. Its not a bad thing but I don’t see you as such.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I am bilingual.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Maybe it's that I'm less interested in stats than iglew is,
so I’m often less in touch with them.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
right your a traditionalist that uses stats to augment their framework on occasion
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't call myself a traditionalist
I laugh at the notion of “old school” and its archaic thinking. I think I’m an “it takes all kinds” type who believes that at times stats are more appropriate measures, at other times observation, at other times analysis/logic, occasionally intuition, and that the trick is to know when to lean on what tool.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sorry I wasn't around for the rest of the Ray of Lite roast; I had 4th of July festivities to attend to
DFA’s skepticism and the FJM jokes aside, I didn’t post in some spirit of trollishness. It just so happened that CT, in his post-game show yesterday, voiced a view that coincided with my own, and I noted that.
Anyway, as I already mentioned upthread, I will take these points seriously.
For what it’s worth, I wasn’t suggesting that the A’s have been in many blowout situations. Instead, my point was that the hits, when they’ve come, haven’t been all that valuable — a notion which has been debunked, I gather.
Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"
Well, no, not entirely debunked.
It really is true that Jack Cust’s hits have come at less valuable times this year. But we all agree that that’s just statistical noise and not any indication of how good he’s been and/or will be.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You do realize that Jack Cust has a .308/.418/.419 batting line, right? Cust had a .329/.435/.486 batting line in his last 24 games coming into today.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah? Santana's OPS is over 1.000, and he's played fewer games than Cust!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
But he's Carlos Santana
He’s got a Black Magic Woman to help him. Cust can’t compete with that
bizarre
I was actually listening to Santana when I read this comment
(Lotus, live record from 1973)
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 5, 2010 4:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Man, you'd think that Cust's recent awesomeness would cut down on the criticism for a bit.
He’s been terrific lately. So much so that his full season line is the best on the team, and very solid compared to the rest of the league.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I remember in yesterday's game that after getting on base, he got thrown out at second on a ground ball hit to the infield by the very next batter.
Fuck him, if he can’t beat that out. All he cares about is getting on base.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
The best site for splits like this is
Cust’s home runs since coming to Oakland:
solo 2R 3R slam
2007 11 9 5 1
2008 20 13 0 0
2009 13 6 5 1
2010 1 1 0 0
total 45 29 10 2
Is this out of proportion with how often the other A’s get on base, or for that matter out of proportion with baseball over all? It looks like a pretty typical distribution to me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
To be fair to the post this replies to
I don’t think he’s saying Cust hits only solo homers, but that too much of his production comes in meaningless blowouts. That’s not actually true (since, you know, when he’s hitting multiple XBH and walking a lot that helps CAUSE the blowout), but I think that’s the crux of the argument.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I got that.
That’s why I also discussed leveraged situations. The BR pages I linked have numbers for different leverage situations as well.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
"I’m not sure why Cust — the so-called DH — isn’t treated similarly."
Probably because it’s a myth.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Observation:
Although AN’s front page has a box score summary and links, when I’m reading the game recap thread like I am now, nowhere on the entire page is there any link to the box score for the game.
It seems like this is non-optimal behavior from the point of view of the SBN overlords — especially since SBN has its own box score pages now. I recommend that both for the convenience of readers as well as their own advertising-dollar self-interest they address this and build it into the widget somehow so that every recap thread for every baseball game will have an easy link to the box score. Otherwise when I go looking for it, I’m just as likely to go to mlb.com or ESPN.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The "current series" widget links to the SBN box score if you click on "complete coverage".
Like this one.
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2010/7/2/1549552/sb-nation-bay-area-regional-meet-up
I should probably remember to add that to recaps more often.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Aha, so I should be blaming you!
Seriously, I was reading along and then I was thinking, “What were Cust’s hits today? I can’t remember” and when I went to look for the box score it wasn’t there. It’s logical to have that in a recap story, because reading the discussion after a game is exactly when people are likely to want it.
Even better than the “current series” widget you linked to would be the thing that’s currently on the front page, which shows the rows of numbers by inning and R/H/E, plus WP LP and SV, and then the same “complete coverage” link. I don’t know if that one is on a widget, but that’s the one I think makes most sense for a recap thread.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
We actually have a whole bunch of widgets available to us in a new front page article, but we never use them.
Most would just clutter the page up, anyway.
We’ve got league standings, division standings, wildcard standings, current series, a full season line for every player, current injuries, game lineups, recent news, a little player info card (birthdate, height, weight, position, etc), current record, current roster, team statistical leaders, and oooh…a boxscore.
I might try that one next time.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Oh, and I just added the boxscore widget to the latest CT thread, if you want to see it.
Looks just like a differently colored version of the linescore at the top of the main page of AN.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Yes. I think that would be good
in any recap thread. Readers will like it. The SBN overlords will like it. It’s win-win.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I wanna start calling Mazzaro "Vini"
Everytime I see his name it switches, from Vin to Vincent. I think he should go with Vini like this ridiculously talented guitarist Vini Reilly, who records under the name The Durutti Column… it’s sort of like the Jimi version of Jimmy, plus it means “We came” in Latin, how can you not like that?
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
oh, that's Veni, I'm sorry. Vini is a kind of bird indigenous to the South Pacific.
totally dirty mind, what a shocker, I know.
I still like Vini though.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 4, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Now you just need to translate TWSS into Latin and we're good to go.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
not to rain on your parade, but
what you just said would probably be translated as: “just as this (male) orator who is…”
try
“Illud quem dixit est.”
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 5, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Ooh, I like that.
Illud quem dixit est.
What a lovely sound.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Quem is the relative pronoun there, not quod?
Also, you could add an ea to make it clearer that it’s “she”. IQDEE.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
IQDEE, you hit on me?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
ah, good call, it is quod.
“Illud quod dixit est.”
Adding the “ea” isn’t really something any Roman would have done, but we’re dealing with anachronisms anyhow, so if you want:
Ea illud quod dixit est.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 5, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, last change
probably put the ea at the beginning of the indirect question:
Illud ea quod dixit est.
There, that’s the one.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 5, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Is this final? because if it is
it’s time to look for anagrams. I see “liquid” and “sexual” in there, so that seems promising.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It's final.
Alright, AN, what anagram can you make out of
ILLUD EA QUOD DIXIT EST
????
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 5, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I also see dildo, toilet, and tequila.
So very promising.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I see dildo, toilet, and tequila
When I have a little more free time, maybe I’ll look at those anagrams.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Winner!
But rearrange the words:
Exquisite adult dildo.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
That just sounds like a recipie for vomiting
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm thinking ea might make sense
simply because the gender of the imagined speaker is part of the joke, and I’m pretty sure that without any indication that you’re talking about a woman, a Latin reader would just assume you meant a man.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Are you saying you want opposing batters to think Mazzaro ejaculated on them?
Perhaps if his strikeout numbers continue to rise…
So now we can call him Money Shot Mazzaro? Awesome.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 4, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
The Roto blurb on the side calls him "Viz".
Are we allowed to make nicknames out of Roto typos, or is that too easy?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Latin
although “vini” doesn’t mean “we came,” it does mean “of the wine.”
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
Great outing for Mazzaro
I just realized our future rotation is supposed to be GMAC….we’re screwed. lol (good thing they won’t pitch in that order)
Carter 3-4, HR, 3 RBI tonight
Bring him up to DH for the Yankees and Angels when Jackson goes on the DL
Play Cust in the OF.
Can the A's not set up their top prospects for failure?
He doesn’t need to be up in the bigs. Wait till September callups, or just leave him in Sacto for the season.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Go to Sacramento!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Go to 2011!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Will do.
Just let me and Socrates finish this argument. (It’s about Jamie Moyer’s changeup.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
oakclubhouse
Chris Carter finished a 3B short of the cycle in the #RiverCats come-from-behind win. It was his 17th homer of the season. #Athletics
half a minute ago via web
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Well shit.
He couldn’t have put on that show for us yesterday?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hey! I see you survived the heat up there
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 4, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah! it wasn't so bad actually
Stayed nice and warm all through the evening. Good weather to watch a game in, plus we were sitting in the shade.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
good times
I hope you had fun painting your niece and nephew’s faces today!
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 4, 2010 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I got hands, but no faces.
She had a classic 2 year old defiant no-no-no tantrum. She loved the fireworks though. She was calling them all “pupple” (purple, her favorite color) and kept telling the people sitting next to us how “bootiful” the fireworks were. Nephew slept through the whole thing! :)
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I say things are booty-ful all the time
Oh wait…
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 4, 2010 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
This is why I hate "the cycle"
OK, it’s fun if you get all four types of hits and want to celebrate by giving it a name. Yeah, I get that.
But “a 3B short of the cycle”? What the fuck is that? That’s a single, a double, and a home run. That’s a good game, but it’s stupid to define it by what’s missing. Especially when the piece that’s missing is the most distinctive part.
If I get a small garden salad with two slices of bread, am I a bacon short of a B-L-T? That’s retarded.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I hate the cycle because its just kinda innane
there are better games that people can have and they don’t get recognized because its not some gimmicky crap that has a name.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 2:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Calm down, it's a bit of fun.
After all we’re watching grown men play a kid’s game.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
It's an interesting and generally rare oddity that is supposed to demonstrate a hitter's versatility, to the extent that getting a 3B usually requires good running speed.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
or it requires the RFer to misplay the ball
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
or it requires a fucking disgusting display of "hometown" official scoring
as evidenced by Brett Gardners inside the park “hr” yesterday
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
that was an inside-the-parker??
(Facepalm)
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 5, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Weill they ever call losing the ball in the sun an error?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
it hit him in the fucking glove. it's not like he just didn't see it and it landed 80 feet away from him.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
I understand the concept, Nick, but
it’s not interesting, and it is ranted about at such nauseating length, even when it doesn’t actually happen, that it really isn’t rare either.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
should have read this before saying that they aren't rare
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I concur with brother DFA
Black+Douglas:First Amendment::Iglew+DFA:the cycle
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
which is funny though because it is a pattern like you are talking about being excited about above
my other problem with it is that cycles really aren’t that rare but get coverage like they are.
Like I know for example that Blowers hit for the cycle in 98 or 99. Why should I know this? Its taking up space in my brain and it really shouldn’t be.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but a pattern that gets overplayed stupidly.
It would be fun if it weren’t the case that (1) every time anyone hits a triple the announcers immediately start talking about whether he hits a cycle, and (2) any time someone gets the other three pieces they call it “one short of a cycle” even though the one that is short is the one that really matters.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
this is true.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, yes you are.
And probably some mayo too. But y’know, that’s just being picky.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
and if said salad is also missing proportionate measures
of water, sand, cement, etc. you would be that much short of a BLT&Concrete Sandwich.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
There is a town near here in WA called Concrete,
and it is like a Lower 48 version of Chicken, Alaska, in that it is a strikingly ugly town that happens to be located in strikingly beautiful surroundings.
I don’t think any place can truly rival Chicken, though, especially when approaching from the east.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
did they film ...gad, This Boy's Life or whatever it was with Leo what's name and
Bob Dinero there or near abouts?
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
I've long thought you were a bacon short of a B-L-T.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So at least he can hit the ball out of the park.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
He should be called up before Watson, but they both may be coming up. Crisp is expected to be ready for tomorrow, though.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
so, Crisp is dead, right?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 4, 2010 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess he’s like the walking dead.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Mortensen sent down
Watson and Carson called up.
THE FRANCHISE!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No, Moran:
.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
oakclubhouse
Ouch! Adrian Cardenas was hit twice by the same pitcher tonight. He’s hitting .408/.490/.579 for Midland, BTW. #Athletics
8 minutes ago via web
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 10:37 PM PDT reply actions
Bean war!!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
{looks up gay ballplayer's WAR}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
GOG #28 is up
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2010/7/4/1552805/gog-28-yankee-go-home
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
stocktonports
Ports win! Ports win! Stephen Parker hits a walk-off, two-run HR in the bottom of the 12th inning! Way to go Ports!
4 minutes ago via Facebook
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 4, 2010 11:27 PM PDT reply actions
I won’t believe it until you pitch like this (7.1 IP, 7 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 7 K) against the Angels on Saturday!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Aw, crap
Does that mean that the one game I get to see in my brief visit to the US (Friday) will be started by ClayMort?
Son of a…
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Nope
I think they are going to skip ClayMort’s start with the Day off Thursday. 4-Man Rotation to close out the 1st Half.
by Colorado Fan on Jul 5, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, Geren already said Cahill isn’t getting moved up to pitch on Saturday.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you decide if you can hang out with us or not?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Saturday's looking pretty unlikely
if there’s some way for me to make it, I will—even if I don’t sit anywhere near you guys.
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
Sorry. We thought "Lucida Calligraphy" would be more classy
No, actually, it looks the same to me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
THINGS MY FATHER BEAT ME WITH!!!
Wait, that’s wingtips.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Milwaukee Brewers manager Ken Macha says that pitcher Yovani Gallardo will not be able to pitch in the All-Star Game due to injury.
Gallardo was lifted from his start against the Cardinals on Sunday with a right oblique strain and the Brewers aren’t going to risk him in the Midsummer Classic. “Throwing in the All-Star Game? No,” Macha said. “I’m saying that, best case scenario, he’s probably going to be doing no baseball activities for at least 10 days.”
I hope they select Mat Latos to replace him.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 11:30 AM PDT reply actions
I just realized that San Diego has one All-Star.
Best record in the National League, and they’ve got one?! They should have sent half of their pitchers.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I had Latos and Gregerson on my roster.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it was Bell that was quoted last night as saying
That it was insult or something like that.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 5, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
MLB
★★★ Votto & Swisher leaders after 1st 24 hours of @AllStarGame MLB.com #FINALVOTE | VOTE NOW: http://vote.mlb.com ★★★
less than a minute ago via web
It looks like the New York people are getting behind Swisher better than the Boston people are getting behind Youkilis.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
I hope another position player in the NL needs an injury replacement
Ryan Zimmerman and Joey Votto not on an all star team is absolutely horrible.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
The Tigers lead the Orioles by an 8-7 score after three innings in a wild game at Comerica Park. Jake Fox hit a home run for Baltimore in the third.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 11:42 AM PDT reply actions
WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT HIM!!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Eric Patterson hit 2 solo HRs for Boston today also.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Trade Dealine talk;
Should A’s trade Mark Ellis and go with Adam Rosales as their everyday 2B?
What about CoCo Crisp??? I vote to keep Crisp, and pay daily that he stays healthy!!!
I think Sheets will not be traded because of the high contract and mediocre season
Every man for himself...
Write a fanpost
and figure out who wants them and what they would be willing to give up. This kind of question provides nothing of value besides reminding us that it is july
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah! I prefer to be lazy and just start typing here on this forum.
Thanks for the suggestion though! :)
Every man for himself...
Maybe the White Sox would take both Ellis and Sheets. It doesn’t look like they have a legitimate second baseman and their starting pitcher has been mediocre at best. The Dodgers might be a bit of a stretch. I can’t think of any other teams right now.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I know it's Buster Onley but he speculates that Crisp would be a perfect fit in San Diego...
Every man for himself...
The Padres are in obvious need for offensive firepower and will take whatever they can get if the price is right. I wonder if we can get somebody as good as Tyler Ladendorf for just Crisp alone, though, and if that’s worth it.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Gallagher was actually designated for assignment a few days or so ago.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh, no, not right now. I think he has to pitch better than the way he is right now for somebody like Boston or Tampa Bay to want him since they’re basically set at pitching. I’m thinking the best way to unload Sheets is to include him with somebody so we can maybe get somebody better than Tyler Ladendorf.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Braden is a good trade chip, assuming Beane wants to be sellers.
I’m hoping Mortensen can fill the departure from Dallas and maybe we can use Dallas in a package to acquire a bat…
Maybe it’s stll too early, but I think we’re sellers and we should act accordingly.
Every man for himself...
Hurt pitchers are shitty trade chips FYI
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
well then let's trade Braden at the end of the season then...
Maybe I can write a fanpost about how I learned that hurt pitchers are shitty trade chips. You would receive full credit :)
Every man for himself...
who needs a number 3/4 starter in the offseason?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just joking around...
I do think Beane would trade Dallas if he was healthy.
We have to get some bat power and I’m just speculating that we could package Braden at some point either before the trade dealine, or in the off seaon for a bat/
Every man for himself...
who is going to give up a power bat for a 3/4 starter?
Braden isn’t worth that much
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
that's why I would package him along with somebody else
like Ellis, or C.Jackson?
Every man for himself...
both of whom have little value as well
youre a long way off from a good package.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's a new question for you ? (DFA) input appreciated...
Who do you see as trade bait for the A’s?
Every man for himself...
Honestly the A's have shitty trade bait
which is a huge part of their problem. Sheets has minimal value (more than Braden though) but I think I might just try to extend him instead of trading him. I would trade Bailey and Suzuki because they are the only players of value and I don’t really believe in closers and I believe in Josh Donaldson and Landon Powell. Braden if he healthy and pitches well for the rest of the year would be valuable in the offseaon but I don’t think that he gets full value back in a trade so I don’t hink you do that with the lack of rotational depth that we have.
I think you could get a Desmond Jennings type spec from Tampa for Suzuki.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
In other words Beane/Frost fucked up the rebuild and were screwed in mediocrity.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I suppose if you imagine two of
Carter/Taylor/Cardenas being up about now and about to be really good, the rebuild looks a lot better. And that was a reasonable hope.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Kinda
you had to hope that Carter/Barton/(Cardenas and Elis)/Taylor turned out at least two positions of atleast average production in 11 to be ok and three to be a good team especially with the black hole that is SS and CF.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Everybody.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Braden is about the last person I want to trade.
because I think he’s worth more to Oakland than he is to anyone else.
What makes someone worth trading is not how good or how bad he is, but whether another team wants him more than we do. That’s how you get added value.
So much of Braden’s value to the A’s (and to me as a fan) is not actually how good he is at pitching, but his personality and his attitude and how cool he is, plus his history as a long-shot guy who came up through our farm system and now the memory of the one perfect game. None of this adds to his trade value, which is pretty much just a decent #4 pitcher who has weak stuff but gets by on guile, but it would add greatly to how much I would miss him if we gave him away.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
plus I don't think we would get a return which would be close to his value.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Or worse, we would.
-Oscar Wilde.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You can eat all the salary of a stunningly mediocre player
and get quite a bit in return.
Ask the Indians with Casey Blake.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Thats only if the Dodgers or Rangers want them
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 5, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
i think its the most likely destination for him to be honest.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 6, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
= DL for Coco and New Guy.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
My guess: DL for Conor,
Crisp plays today or tomorrow, only Carson called up.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes. I believe, in fact, that they were his last words.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Negative
#Athletics recall Matt Carson, select Matt Watson, place Conor Jackson on DL, option Clayton Mortensen and transfer Travis Buck to 60-day DL
Watson is only on the 40-man, then, right?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
No
Now 11 pitchers and 14 position players
I’m guessing the A’s are afraid Coco will breakdown again
I guess Mazzaro pitches on Friday and Sheets pitches on Saturday.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
The return of the Matts...
Seeing Matt Watson again will be fun. I’m surprised it took New Guy this long for his first DL stint with the A’s. And thanks for the start, Clayton; now go back to Sac.
Also, Trav… sigh.
Man forget the AL
The A’s have been playing on the DL.
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
oakclubhouse
Jeff Baisley is up in Sacramento with Carson and Watson in Oakland. #Athletics
4 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
Since Cardenas has a 1.069 OPS in Double-A Midland, maybe a lot of people thought he’d get a call up.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 3:22 PM PDT reply actions
Souvenir Baseball night
Good thing the baseball comes after the game, although I wonder if anyone will play dodgeball with Yankees fans on the BART bridge?
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
I wouldn't if I were you.
There’s gonna be more of them than A’s fans out there.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
There were little of each the last series
But I guess now that it’s the dog days of summer, there’ll be plenty.
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
LMAO
Sittin in the dugout with kate longworth rummaging through her phone. Daric Barton
http://twitter.com/KLongworthCSN/status/17823440839
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Ha.
His first tweet (even though it’s on someone else’s account) is already more interesting than all of Brett’s.
This is what LoneStranger did to my phone Thursday night.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
He set a nice reminder for 2:30pm Friday to tell me that he rocks.
Password set on phone now.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Forget what? That you rock? Or to set the password?
I remembered both.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
No thanks.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
:D
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
You're very nice, you know that?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
susanslusser
Conor Jackson said he plans to be ready to play as soon as he’s eligible to come off the DL, at the end of the break. #Athletics
6 minutes ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 4:12 PM PDT reply actions
KLongworthCSN
#BobGeren has come out to watch #CoCoCrisp do the drills -no lineup posted for the A’s yet #Athletics
15 minutes ago via OpenBeak
susanslusser
Brett Anderson threw 21 pitches in a simulated game in Phoenix last night and everything went well. #Athletics
half a minute ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 4:13 PM PDT reply actions
OaklandAs
#Athletics vs. #Yankees: Crisp CF, Barton 1B, Sweeney RF, Suzuki C, Cust DH, Kouzmanoff 3B, Gross LF, Ellis 2B, Pennington SS, Sheets P
3 minutes ago via UberTwitter
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 4:17 PM PDT reply actions
HE'S ALIVE
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Ooh, JC plays for us now?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
"Daric, I think we've got the sacrifices covered for tonight's game..."
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 5, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And
#DaricBarton took over my Twitter duties briefly while I showed off the ‘Stay off My Mound’ Tshirt to #DallasBraden for the first time
#DallasBraden’s exclusive reaction to the shirt surrounding the A-rod situation on SportsNet Central& A’s Pregame Live tonight #Yankees
http://twitter.com/KLongworthCSN
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I'm unclear how that's an exclusive reaction
when I spoke to him about it yesterday, but hey, I guess exclusive for TV!
ooo
trash talking on AN ;-)
we should have a SFgate vs CSN smackdown thread. Ask all the writers/reporters/hosts to join.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I’d have to root for CSN.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
JeffFletcherAOL
Girardi also said replacement for Cahill will be most deserving guy, not necessarily another #athletics player.
less than a minute ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 4:25 PM PDT reply actions
except he's the only Athletic, so there kinda has to be another one
right?
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
He is pitching on Sunday.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He pitches Sunday so he's ineligible to pitch Tuesday night in the ASG
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Cahill was picked originally by Girardi, right?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 5, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, he was not voted in by the players.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Kinda wishing the A's just let this go by now
Shirt’s not really necessary. http://www.zannel.com/viewupdate.htm?id=PTP9IB
Last of the Ninth - Photography
susanslusser
Friday might be the first rehab game for Anderson. #Athletics
5 minutes ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 4:36 PM PDT reply actions
I wonder if it's out for Droid yet....I wonder if I can download it through wifi if it is available.
It'll be cool to use Flash on the Droid
Apple sure missed out on that.
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
ALOT faster, better navigation.
I had to download the flash player (beta), but its a huge upgrade!
Rocks if you play fantasy.
Red Sox drinking the same water as the A's
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
It's the curse of Patterson!
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
joestiglich
A-Rod was asked if he planned on talking to Braden. “We’ve opened and closed that window plenty.” #athletics, #yankees
2 minutes ago via web
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 5:40 PM PDT reply actions
Fuck a duck!
Stupid dumbhead.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
i thought you would be more creative such as....
oh man that sucks, beane sucks, gerren sucks, everything sucks.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
OaklandAs
#Athletics vs. #Angels pitching probables this weekend are FRI: Mazzaro vs. Pineiro, SAT: Sheets vs. Kazmir, SUN: Cahill vs. Weaver.
13 minutes ago via web
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 6:02 PM PDT reply actions
I love Ken Korach.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I love Rich Gannon.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
NO!
Gasp!
Did you??!!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I won't do that
he has too few friends, like they might be his real ones
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
No
but both gigglingone and I got the suggestion to within 24 hours. I think Ed’s right.
It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.
Bummer on both counts.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I'll wait for him to friend me
It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.
susanslusser
Matt Watson did make it here, by the way, after spending nearly all day driving from Reno along with everyone else post-holiday. #Athletics
less than a minute ago via web
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 6:34 PM PDT reply actions
JeffFletcherAOL
#Phillies top special assignment scout at #athletics-#yankees tonight. Mark Ellis?
3 minutes ago via TweetDeck
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 6:37 PM PDT reply actions
Heh.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Re: the shirts
Braden thinks Oakland is trying to make a buck and doesn’t support it.
I love it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yeah...I keep waiting.
If I don’t see something by 7pm I’ll put one up.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Angels and Rangers both losing (so far).
Me happy.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
The White Sox have it in the bag, but I am not sure about the Indians although they are threatening yet again.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
you know what makes me happy?
that even though the charger for my lap top broke I can get a replacement.
but the ones at the stores (universal) cost between 50 and 100 buck
however, you can get an exact duplicate from some shady internet company for 30.
suck it brick and mortar store!
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2010/7/5/1553962/open-thread-game-84-new-york
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 5, 2010 6:58 PM PDT reply actions
Have fun everyone! Cheer loud!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
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