Dallas Dominates, Kouzmanoff Crushes as Oakland Sets Up a Rubber Match Tomorrow in Chicago
by jeffro on Jul 31, 2010 6:42 PM PDT
Email
PrintThe A's easily defeated the white hot White Sox today at US Cellular Field by the score of 6-2 to set up the series rubber match tomorrow. With the victory, the Oakland 9 have preserved the chance to complete a .500 road trip against two of baseball's hottest teams.
Today's game reminded me a bit of wiffleball. Specifically, when Dallas Braden would throw a change up and whoever happened to be standing in the box for the White Sox looked silly swinging at it. This repeated off balance hack at a 70 mile an hour pitch has become the hallmark of a good Braden start. The kind of game, like today's, where Braden silently dominates and we look at the TV and think "It's the 6th inning already?"
Braden breezed through 5, scattering 2 hits while keeping the Chicago hitters off balance with a mix of changing locations and speeds, before running into trouble in the 6th when Juan Pierre and Alexei Ramirez led off with back to back singles. Both Alex Rios and Paul Konerko flew out on thunderous drives before Braden induced a grounder from Carlos Quentin to keep the Sox off the board.
Braden was not as lucky in the 7th, surrendering 2 runs on an Andruw Jones HR. The lefty then gave up an infield single to Pierre, putting the tying run in the on deck circle, before striking out Alexei Ramirez to thwart the only serious White Sox threat of the game.
The A's offense was led by Kevin Kouzmanoff, who went 3 for 5 with 3 Runs, a Double and a Home Run. Kouzmanoff's first hit of the day, a single, kicked of a 4 run rally in the 2nd Inning. The rally, which proved to be all the offense Braden needed, was fueled by 5 Singles and a Base on Balls.
The A's complete the series and the road trip tomorrow morning, at 11:05 Pacific. Oakland will send Gio Gonzalez to the hill in search of his 10th Win this season. The White Sox counter with Gavin Floyd.
213 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The CT thread is here.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2010 6:50 PM PDT reply actions
Very nice recap!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Go Angels?
That feels weird to say, but it’s what we need.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
At least we can root for Haren.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Even more ugh and sigh-riffiic
is despite throwing a great complete game, he got beat by that glass-armed motherf%^&er.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
To be fair
I still love Harden.. and the guy with the same name, minus a “d”… The best of both worlds. I still love Zito too. And my highschool sweetheart too, so there!
by Chilango on Jul 31, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait, I'm Zito's Highschool Sweetheart, And I'm a GUY !!
But seriously folks, I cant bring myself to root for the hated halos. I know they are fully capable of beating the Texans, it’s just that I am pretty sure the Strangers are gonna go south here pretty soon like they do every year or it IS gonna BE THEIR YEAR. Pretty sure the Angels didnt address anything with their free agent monkey business this time. They have too many holes and not enough team. I’m Pretty Sure that leaves the A’s, who have been on IR so often and had so many MRI’s that they could play a night game with the lights off, and the field would still be lit up like day by the players GLOWING Brightly !!! Whatever…the A’s…They didn’t get a free agent bat (I’m sure the check just bounced or we were waiting for Wolff to cash his social security check), mostly because ownership doesn’t believe in making money by making a run at a pennant when you are still in the race and have plenty of games against the team in the lead that is notorious for fading down the stretch every season!!
Whew that was a lot of words! Anywho, hopefully the Youngsters come together and get as many wins as possible down the stretch and see where you are at the end. Stranger things have happened before. Teams have gone into the last month of the schedule and fought back from 10-15 games back! The A’s ? They are still in it to win it, DESPITE NO help from the owner! Fans are still pulling for this team even if the Owner isn’t (and with Wolff as the owner, that is a given!). I guess in a way Wolff put his seal of approval on this Season by NOT having a “Fire Sale” ! In that respect, I guess it is better than how it could have been (it’s either that or MLB told the other 29 teams no deals with Oakland period, or they just dont have any talent that anyone wants or needs for the stretch run?). So with that very weak vote of confidence from ownership, I say GO A’s !!!!
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
Dallas Braden, damn fine today
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
Gio vs. Floyd
Matchup of the 2 guys traded by the Phillies to the White Sox for Freddy Garcia.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I'm predicting a HR by Milton Bradley off of Andrew Brown.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sat nite post-A's foreign sports watching night
Right now, looking at ESPN3s coverage of the Caribbean Twenty/20 cricket tournament.
If it gets boring, I can switch over to the Calgary Stampeders vs. the Winnipeg Blue Bombers.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
MLB Network is showing the Phils/Nats game
Kerwin Danley’s behind the plate and sucking again. Just called a pitch high and outside a strike and the announcers are fuming.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
You wonder if he gets stumped on "E" at the optometrist's.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There comes a point where Danley needs to be reprimanded
He’s long been one of the least favorite umps according to player polls.
I also think he’s the one ump most guilty of taking the attention away from the players, and it’s downright disgusting to see that.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
just got back from Pawtucket
where I saw the Paw Sox playing the Durham Bulls. The lineups brought back a lot of memories, with Hannahan starting at third for the Sox, and Dan Johnson and JJ Furmaniak at first and third, respectively, for the Bulls.
Also, Johnson (about to turn 31) is making a serious bid for International League MVP — slashing 303/428/617 with 30(!) HR and more walks than Ks.
Did Susan Surandon adopt him?
thats a 809 MLE someone should give him another shot.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions
And you'd think the Rays would give him a shot with Pena hitting worse than that...
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Just got back from the A's game.
Braden dominated, just dominated with his change. It was comical to watch the Sox hitters NOT adjust to it all night long. The A’s didn’t hit many balls hard, but had enough O and D to get it done. Toss in the Rat Pack theme night and the fireworks show afterward; it was a stellar evening.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
sounds great
Korach was commenting about how there was something going on downtown near the lake, a ton of boats on the water in the afternoon. Did you check any of that out?
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Nope. I was lucky to get to the Cell, grab my brat and get to my seat in time.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
Wow. If someone didn't know what you were talking about
that could possibly seem very dirty…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Chicago Scene annual boat party
A somewhat Mardi-gras-ish event.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
was at the game as well
and I have to agree: great pitching + A’s win + awesome stadium bratwurst + great weather + Sinatra + fireworks = a very fine Saturday evening.
Heh
Ozzie on Braden: “Thank God I don’t bet in Vegas or have that disease of betting because I’d have bet we’d have a better game against him.”
http://twitter.com/JaneMLB/status/20037881641
Last of the Ninth - Photography
thats kinda a dick move
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions
That's Ozzie.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
yeah i follow Ozzie on twitter because he says rediculous shit but still
usually hes not that much of an ass.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
actually, i think it's kind of a tribute to Braden
Isn’t he saying, “jeez, his stuff doesn’t look so great, but it’s actually extremely effective pitching..”?
Hi ho.
I think it's more,
“I don’t think the guy’s that good, so I’d have thought we’d do better.” That’s consistent with his somewhat trashing Braden’s stuff/ability after the perfect game — though it’s hard to tell “trashing” from “teasing” since he ended by saying “I mean if Mark Buehrle can pitch a perfect game, anyone can.”
Just Ozzie being Ozzie, I guess.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He is good, actually.
He’s not that healthy but when he can take the mound he’s legit. I’d call him a “very solid #3 starter” at this point, and a true staff leader.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I should have clarified...
He’s not a 2.00 ERA guy… which is what his ERA was today.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
In other words...
I would bet with Ozzie every single start… and bet against him having outings like tonight’s.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if the bet is,
“I bet he won’t pitch as well as 9 IP, 2ER” then you should pretty much bet against any pitcher.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ozzie said he's not that good... meaning
he’s not as good as he was tonight. And if he is as good as he was tonight…, then he’s way better than a good number 3.
I agree, Nico, that he’s a solid starter. I just think that the outrage over Ozzie’s comments is only because it’s Ozzie…
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, there's history to this is what I'm saying,
and it’s relevant to analyzing what he meant. After the perfect game, Ozzie was quoted saying he didn’t Braden was that special — it was just a bit of gratuitous ragging on him, which he appears to have continued tonight. Why, I don’t know. I’d think Braden was Ozzie’s kind of player: Gritty and a bit insane.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But Ozzie is right. He's not that special... other than that he got lucky...
and threw a perfect game. And, yes, every person who throws one is lucky.
So, again, I have to agree with Ozzie. He’s not that special… he’s not as good as he was tonight. And if my team only scored 2 runs against Braden over 9 innings… I’d be pissed too.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with both of you
Stuff wise, Braden should be Clay Mortensen. He has a much better head on his shoulders than the average bear, though, which allows him to get much more out of his stuff than most can. It doesn’t happen often, but you can have a career that way. Tommy John leaps to mind.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
To a lesser extent, I still like the Tim Hudson comparison
From the “numbers are better than stuff” category.
Granted, Hudson’s stuff is better than Braden’s, but still…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions
If your main point is that Braden isn't really a good pitcher,
then I don’t agree: I think he’s a good pitcher.
If your main point is that he’s not as good as “9 IP, 2 ER” then I agree: No one is. You don’t see guys posting a 2.00 ERA and averaging 9 IP / start.
He’s a good pitcher who pitched one of his better games tonight. It’s not like Cedrick Bowers got an emergency start and threw a shutout.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think we're splitting hairs...
So we should probably just leave this.
The bottom line is that we agree that Braden is a 3-type pitcher.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't we just say that Braden is good!
And that he is better than Ozzie was expecting. Even though the Kid has thrown a PERFECT GAME this season and a coupla complete games. I’d say that Braden is pretty good. A VERY SOLID 3rd pitcher in your rotations! Better than most of the White SOX Pitchers!!
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
For all his faults, I think Ozzie has a lot of respect for ballplayers in general, but the "overachiever" types especially
Things he says don’t always come out right, but I think what he meant was supposed to be a compliment. If I had to guess, Ozzie would probably rather have Braden on his team than a lot of better pitchers because of Braden’s “intangibles” (and being able to get the most out of his talent).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm more interested in what Braden has to say about it
I already know that Ozzie just says what comes out, and isn’t capable of thinking about it much in advance.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
While he's a pretty bad tactical manager
Ozzie is a helluva lot smarter than you think. I would bet that close to 90% of the crazy things he says are completely intentional and calculated.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He works in a place like Chicago
and with the club he’s got.
It would be interesting to see him manage a team like the A’s, I don’t think it would go as well…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I love to see him do it, but it also makes me sad
What?
Patrol Craft hitting for the cycle in Colorado, hitting his 21st HR to win the game in the bottom of the ninth, on the first pitch of the bottom of the ninth.
48,000 cheering him on in Denver.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jul 31, 2010 8:57 PM PDT reply actions
Call me when he does it on the road!
But yeah.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Agreed his H/R splits are crazy, but that walk off was absolutely crushed.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 31, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Slightly, yes.
It’s worth noting that most of the A’s OFers could never hope to hit one ball that way, ever, in any park. ;-(
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I bet when Sweeney plays video games he puts his own power all the way up in hopes to hit balls like that one,
but he still just ends up hitting singles.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 31, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not that Sweeney doesn't have power
It’s that his swing mirrors one of those college softball players who tries to slap everything down the third base line.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 1, 2010 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
reports for Batting practice
are that he hits a ton of HRs balls over the fence.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Oh I know, but his power is terrible in video games because of the approach.
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
Good Recap
Nice to read from someone else, diversity is nice. Gonzo is a monster, I don’t care what anyone wants to say about his home vs. away stats. No one on our team will reach 21 homers, let alone hit a cycle. People that say otherwise just haven’t accepted reality that we let him go. Anyways, let’s take the rubber tomorrow!
by Chico_Athletic on Jul 31, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like Gonzalez and didn't want the A's to deal him,
but come on — the guy is hitting exactly .262/.279/.385 on the road this year with 5 BBs and 64 Ks. That’s not bad, it’s AWFUL.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Exactly.
Anybody who thinks that Coors doens’t inflate his numbers big time is absolutely delusional.
''Nothing like Joe dirt to make it all ok'' - Brett Anderson
I am reminded of the Simpsons episode
when Homer’s roasted pig is rolling away into oblivion:
Homer: It’s still good! IT’S STILL GOOD!
Lisa: It’s gone.
Homer: I know.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Hah! Love that episode.
You don’t win friends with salad!
What you fail to understand in your joyless myopia is that baseball is the key to life-- the Rosetta Stone, if you will. If you just understood baseball better all your other questions your, your... the, uh... the aliens, the conspiracies they would all, in their way be answered by the baseball gods.
by winchester5 on Jul 31, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
On the A's, he'd be very good as opposed to the borderline superstar he is with the Rockies.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 31, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unless he was putting up an OBP under .300
and had a 13:1 K/BB ratio. Which does appear possible. I still like him, though. I’m just saying he’s not putting up a season that should inspire anyone below 5,000 feet to trade for him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It doesn't appear possible at all (well, at least the first part)
You can’t take the splits at face value. Being on the road has a very significant part to do with your home/road splits, probably more than ballpark factors. He’s never going to be patient, but I couldn’t care less if he’s going to kill baseballs (see Guerrero, Vladimir).
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
The question is,
what would being on the road half the time, and being at the Coliseum half the time, produce?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Strongly disagree
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
*at least right now
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, so if road being road is the problem, we can assume he'd be about the same on the road if he were still in Oakland (likely worse because it's the AL)
And the park difference between Colorado and Oakland alone would account for a huge drop in home numbers.
I dunno, I think he’s like an .800 OPS guy MAX on the A’s. And that’s if every single thing goes perfectly.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced.
The whole park effect concept is really difficult to vet at the end of the day, because being at home and being on the road clearly has an effect, but it’s hard to apply any consistent rule about it. It affects some players more than others, some teams more than others, and it does so with little consistency.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
To not put stock in a .450 point difference in Home/Road OPS is just silly, I think.
And I think regardless of WHY he has it, it’s meaningful. A guy with his skill set is just not ever putting up a 1.101 OPS in Oakland. That’s HOF caliber, and Carlos Gonzalez is not going into the HOF.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd put SOME stock in it
but I think that a 24-year-old player like him is going to render this discussion moot in the very near future.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
See my comment below
Concerning his BABIP splits.
He’s due for a major regression soon.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I think I take that back.
Guy has a .663 OPS on the road. No chance in hell he’s anywhere NEAR the 1.101 he has in Colorado. I mean, if he was. 800 in the Coliseum I’d be shocked.
His numbers would look a lot like Kouzmanoff’s, probably. Except he’d probably have even fewer walks.
He’s an okay defensive CF, so he’d probably be about a league-average player. Maybe.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Yay for being the tallest midget
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
As Kouz is living proof,
it’s damn hard to OPS .800 when you don’t walk and don’t play in a hitters park. My best guess on Gonzalez in Oakland is that he’d put up a line of about .250/.310/.450 with 20 HRs — which would look pretty good right now but isn’t really that special. Unless he could hack it in CF, which personally I thought he could.
As folks know, when I heard the trade I said I’d have been more ok with it had Sweeney been the one traded. And I still feel that way.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd take Gonzalez over the A's current group of OFs
But the people who act like this team would be significantly better with him (and/or Ethier) is just as ridiculous as the ones who think Cust is bad because of strikeouts.
The A’s are, MAYBE 1 win better with Gonzalez instead of Crisp/Davis. But I wouldn’t put money on that.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
True... and then you have to subtract anything that Taylor adds...
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
no you really don't
The A’s probably could have gotten a Taylor caliber prospect for Street at last years deadline.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's a shame that we couldn't have explored a better deal for Street
And I think that is the side of this trade that we let up easy on. Street could have netted the A’s something very valuable on his own, but most of us just assumed he’d be traded so we didn’t make too big a deal of it…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
His average wouldn't go down nearly as much
His slugging percentage is where he would take a hit. A lightning fast bat is still lightning fast in any park, even if less balls will leave the ballpark.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
But his poor plate discipline would hurt him a lot more in a home ballpark where breaking pitches actually break
by OkayJay81 on Jul 31, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
800 OPS in the Coli is damn good though.
Especially if he plays good CF defense.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry, but as bad as CarGon is away from Coors, he's still getting lucky, and will get worse
His BABIP is .369 @ Coors and .367 away, and that’s while somehow hitting less line drives and more ground balls away from home.
A .370 BABIP may maintain over a year at Coors, but he’s downright terrible away from that place.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think this crap that
“several GMs see him as a top 10 player next year” either took the worst GMs or is just not true because while he very well could end up being very good, I look at a guy like him who barely walks and see the NL West pitchers figuring him out very soon.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 31, 2010 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
It's possible GMs "see" him as that
But it’s not going to happen.
Is he even at 40% of what Beltran (a comp lots made) was?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 1, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not worried
that someone who has the ability to destroy a baseball like that, and is ridiculously young, won’t figure it out. It’s not all Coors, either. Home/road splits are not equal to Coors inflated stats.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
By the way, though it was a pretty small sample size
In 2008 he had a .662 OPS at home and .607 OPS on the road. So I agree with you that Gonzalez just seems to be better at home, period. But I still think his numbers are very, very Coors-inflated. It’s not that he’s a little better at home. He’s a Hall of Famer at home and a triple A guy who would never sniff the majors on the road.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
We'll see.
I think that when he grows into his talent, he will be a destroyer of worlds. This is hard for someone who supported the Holliday trade to admit.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Yeah, he's still really young. However, another thing to consider:
By the time Gonzalez is as good as you think he can be (and I think he probably can be too), he’s already going to be getting expensive, and thus probably wouldn’t have been on the A’s at that point anyway.
The Holliday trade was a bad one, but I’m just not big on Gonzalez’s “type,” and I still think he has huge bust potential even though he’s been pretty decent so far.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You're such an A's fan...
As soon as a cost-controlled OF gets good he won’t be on the team.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not that I don't want him on the team
I just know he won’t be.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
That's my point...
you’re conditioned to that point of view…
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but my conditioning doesn't actually afffect anything
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 1, 2010 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions
You're right
but it makes the baby Jssus cry. Why did you make him cry? WHY????
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Anyway...
it’s essentially C-Gone for Taylor. I’m going to give Taylor, a far more talented defensive and basestealing prospect, a chance, before I lament Gonzales like I do everyday with Ethier.
by DubsDominate on Jul 31, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd take Gonzalez in the outfield over Taylor.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yeah, I'd probably take him too honestly...
…scratch the defensive part…I think he can play comparable defense if he improves a bit though.
by DubsDominate on Jul 31, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
wow this is really wrong
Gonzalez is probably better at both than taylor
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
let me
try to justify losing him, leave me alone :’((
by DubsDominate on Jul 31, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if I understand this.
By the time Gonzalez is as good as you think he can be (and I think he probably can be too), he’s already going to be getting expensive, and thus probably wouldn’t have been on the A’s at that point anyway.
He’s already really fucking good. So who cares if he’s going to be expensive when he’s really really really fucking good? Heck if we extrapolate this philosophy, then it’s pretty much useless to develop any prospect.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Except he's NOT "really fucking good"
I think he’s beyond mediocre and his numbers look decent because of league/park/extraordinarily high BABIP for a guy with pathetic plate discipline.
And he’s not especially good defensively either.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 1, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions
It's like what I write just flies over your head.
His park/batted ball (in case you haven’t figured it out, this adjusts for park and BABIP) wOBA is .366. That’s 33 points above league average. He’s a career +7.5 UZR/150 defender in the outfield. He’s pretty fucking good.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
You need to stop focusing on splits and start focusing on park adjusted numbers.
Gonzalez’s wOBA this season is .379. His park adjusted wOBA is .371. His park/batted ball adjusted wOBA is .366. Any way you slice it, the guy is having a damn fine season.
Single season small sample splits (SSSSS!) are subject to so many variables and fluctuations that you can’t really concretely conclude anything from them. Last year Gonzalez put up a .344 OBP and a .811 OPS away. zomg! He should be fine going forward right? Well, if you put the same stock in this year’s numbers then clearly not. But in reality what does either of those years’ splits mean? Pretty close to nothing.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Just think when the A's get their next 30 HR guy...
It’ll seem like he hits ones every game.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't wait until 2016
Which seems likely unless Carter pans out.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
If Carter doesn't become a 30 HR guy... then 2016 would be the earliest it'll happen...
But for crying out loud… is it that frickin’ hard to get one?
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Depends on how much money you want to spend.
They’re expensive. I think the A’s can afford one this offseason, but they also have to convince him to come to Oakland. There also are very few 30 homer guys available this offseason, which doesn’t help.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Your best bet there is probably to trade for Uggla
A FA isn’t happening because there aren’t 30 HR guys available this Winter and in general the few who are will be coveted by bigger spenders. Or they’re Adam Dunn and you’re in the wrong league.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And even Uggla probably isn't a 30 HR guy in Oakland...
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 31, 2010 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Im not sure why signing Werth or Dunn wouldn't be viable if ill advised if you really wanted a 30 hr guy.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
"is it that frickin’ hard to get one?"
the nationals signed adam dunn for two-years $20 million, or less than 1/3 eric chavez.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
And of course...
the full stands for a losing team.
by Chilango on Jul 31, 2010 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Gotta Love Dallas when Bob Moron came to Mound after hit by Liner
Braden took a liner from Juan Pierre off his left thigh in the sixth inning. Braden said he was fine and at the time took issue with the mound visit from Geren and a team trainer to see if he was OK.
“I was kind of irritated, I was bitter,” Braden said. “He asked me where it hit me and I said It hit me in the neck. I feel fine.”
From ESPN Recap
"In fairness" alert:
The manager had better go out and ask, and not just take the first answer at face value. I like that Geren hung around and made 100% sure. And I like that Braden stayed in.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 31, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just thought he gave a funny answer
“It hit me in the neck………………………..
I agree, but it also seems like Braden doesn't have a ton of respect for Geren
Which in this case is really just fine by me.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah... and Braden also pitched for 2 or 3 weeks while hurt...
so he can be an idiot too.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, of course he can.
But if one of the team leaders isn’t buying the manager’s crap anymore, that’s a good sign.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
In fairness to Geren
He let Braden have the complete game.
I’d hate to see Braden traded for disrespecting Geren.
Or maybe...
…Braden just gets the red ass when he’s pitching?
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 1, 2010 3:49 AM PDT up reply actions
BEAST update
Chris Carter tonight: 2 for 3 with a double and a BB. (Michael Taylor 1 for 4 with an RBI.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Just looked that up myself...
It’s time to call him up.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
If only he had more experience playing somewhere other than 1B
Grrrr…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why not put him in LF?
If he blows a couple games, big deal.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 31, 2010 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I thought he had been playing left recently
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
4 games now
I just don’t think you should call up a guy for the first time and put him somewhere he’s not comfortable. You want to put him in a situation where he’s “most likely to succeed” and because the A’s took 4 months to put him anywhere but 1B, if you call him up now you should probably play him at 1B — where we happen not to have an opening.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, why not DH him and just let Cust play left for now?
It’s not like Carter would be better in the outfield at this point.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 31, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Same problem --
He hasn’t been DHing at all. Not only do guys generally hit worse when they DH but DHing is a skill and Carter hasn’t been practicing it. So you’re setting him up for failure more than for success by calling him up and asking him to do something totally unfamiliar that players tend to find hard to do.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not being a smart ass here Nico
So really there is no reason to bring up Carter unless he plays first which obviously we can’t do at the expense of Barton?
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
To me the only answer is what the A's are finally doing now,
which is to play him in LF at AAA for a while. Why they didn’t do this in May/June is beyond me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fair enough
I guess next year is more important then this year in regards to Carter. That being said I selfishly want to see the big man in action.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
Why can't Barton move to LF?
…and then Carter play 1B?
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 1, 2010 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Then you have two bad defenders,
one of whom is at a totally unfamiliar position. Better to leave Barton at 1B where he’s excellent and at least have that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good point.
I’d rather they trade Barton…but who (other than his legion of fans here at AN that see him as Olerud 2.0) would want a 1Bman with no pop?
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 1, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Intelligent GMs?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Doubt it.
Unless those “intelligent GMs” have power from other parts of their line up. Barton is a compimentary piece to a good offense, but a drag on offenses with no pop – such as the 2010 Oakland A’s.
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 1, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, because having a guy who gets on base at a .380 clip is a drag.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I'm not so sure this is a big issue
He hasn’t played any position other than kill baseball in his career with much consistency. As long as they’re not dicking him around while he’s in Oakland, they should be able to plug him into 1B, DH, or OF as appropriate.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I fear that playing OF when he's totally Jake Fox at it
would affect his hitting. In his debut in the bigs he should least be set up to hit as well as possible.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This is why I suggested DHing
I know his numbers might suffer a bit as a DH, but that could be canceled out by him not having to think about the 3 horrible fielding mistakes he just made.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 1, 2010 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions
a situation where he’s "most likely to succeed"
so leave him in sacto or trade him?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Rec'd, rec'd rec'd.
I so badly wish someone could convince the A’s of this. He is infinitely more valuable to the A’s if he can be even a slightly below average outfielder than any other outcome.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
He's not ready
He’s not ready he’s not ready…I know we all want to see him up here cranking it out, but I would much rather give him another month to mature, get accustomed to LF, and come up in September when rosters expand.
Let’s be serious, he’s not going to help us make up 8 games hitting .220 with 5-6 homeruns…let him mature a bit more at the plate and bring him up when rosters expand…no reason to rush him up.
by DubsDominate on Jul 31, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions
But he is ready, hitting-wise
His luck and park neutral stats have him over 1.000 OPS. Frankly, he doesn’t have much else to prove in AAA other than cutting the K’s down a bit. Might as well call him up during the hot streak and see if we can ride any of it…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Aug 1, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
This isn't really true
The value of the player is increased in a WAR sense but in a team WAR sense unless there is someone with worse defense than Carter who can mash (and I don’t see that player in the minors or on the team, unless its Cust) it doesn’t deminish Carter’s value to the A’s at all if he is a DH. Its a comparative advantage thing.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 31, 2010 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I just think it'd be a waste
bringing him up and plugging him at DH right away…it just doesn’t sit well with me…
by DubsDominate on Jul 31, 2010 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Per some of the earlier comments in this thread
we need to think of his value not only in terms of what he does on the field, but what he can yield in trade, since there’s a very good chance we’ll be able to keep him no more than six years. If he can somehow turn into an average corner outfielder, he’d fetch much more in a trade than as a DH.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Sometimes...
Us as A’s fans don’t remember what it’s like to have a young, talented hitter on our team. Let me say that again, young, talented hitter. Name one player on the A’s, not Carter or Taylor who may or may not pan out, that we are excited about. To argue that Gonzales, despite his split numbers, wouldn’t be a great player in Oakland is laughable. Gabe Gross, Rajai Davis, Conor Jackson, Watson, Carson, Crisp, etc… Our outfield is lacking average and power. .325, 21 hrs, 70 rbi, 15 sb. Someone explain to me how that is dissapointing for a third year, 24 year old outfielder.Yes his numbers are inflated it’s Colorado, what he is doing is remarkable and better than anything we could hope for from our outfielders.
It's not laughable. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Gonzalez would be very mediocre.
There’s also evidence to suggest otherwise. It’s worth debating.
I don’t think anybody said those numbers are disappointing, but that he wouldn’t put up those numbers (or anything close to it) in Oakland.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Aug 1, 2010 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions
It's funny that everyone argues about CarGon
He’s not on our team anymore. Let it go.
by HCF from Oakball on Aug 1, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions
How could you forget about the great Ryan Ludwick?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, Gio. Bob hates you
Davis CF, Barton 1B, Cust DH, Kouz 3B, Ellis 2B, Powell C, Pennington SS, Watson LF, Carson RF
http://twitter.com/joestiglich/status/20072814505
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Cust is finally batting third and at least Gross isn’t in the lineup. I still would have preferred Rosales over Watson.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Why not over Carson?
Now the Matts are starting when they don’t even have the platoon advantage? Heinous.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I was thinking Carson since we’re facing a RHP and typed Watson instead.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Well if you meant Matt you should have said Matt.
Jeez.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bobo goes crazy
That lineup has playoff-run written all over it.
but do you think it could beat the American conference einner?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
And
Different look for A’s lineup, huh? Days off for Crisp, Suzuki. Def a day game-after-night game starting 9.
http://twitter.com/joestiglich/status/20073026344
Last of the Ninth - Photography
when has that stopped geren from running suzuki out there?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Actually, "night game after a night game"
stopped him from starting Suzuki behind the plate in…y’know..the A’s biggest game of the year (rubber game, Texas).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I guess Crisp needs to sit today and so that pretty much guarantees at least one playing. There should only be one, though.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Not necessarily. Other options:
Rosales-Davis-Gross
Gross-Davis-Taylor
Cust-Davis-Taylor (Carter DH)
Yeah, I know.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or:
Rosales-Davis-Hermida
(Why not get Hermida: he costs nothing and he’s better than Carson, Watson, and maybe Gross).
Needs moar dingerz.
I was thinking that too
Although I want Gross simply as a late-inning defensive replacement. HIs arm makes him okay in the OF.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Aug 1, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d claim Hermida and option down Watson.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
this
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Aug 1, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
You'd have to DFA Watson to have room on the 40 man roster.
Of course that wouldn’t be a problem, since no other team would claim him and it wouldn’t really matter if they did, but I felt compelled to point it out.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
possibly the funniest comment i have read this month
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
I don't think he's going to cost nothing
he’s probably going to be dealt for another minor leaguer. I could see a Hermida for Buck swap making sense.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I think a better question is,
Why the two Matts?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
At least in terms of where they are in the order they're a couple of "Floor Matts"
Last of the Ninth - Photography
At least there aren't More Matts.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
townsendradio
Ozzie Guillen will stop by the show.
1 minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Aug 1, 2010 10:00 AM PDT reply actions
That should be fun
Speaking of which, more complete quotes by Ozzie:
“Dallas was outstanding. Thank God I don’t bet in Vegas or have that disease of betting, because I could have bet we would have a better game against him today than we did in Oakland. It was the opposite,” Guillen said. “I [said] that we will [do] a better job against him. I guess I was wrong. He threw the ball very well, and his changeup was outstanding.”
And if you like reading between the lines, Braden himself:
Braden took pride in manager Bob Geren’s decision to allow him to finish the game.
“That’s the confidence we’re all seeking from our manager. It’s good to see he has that confidence,” Braden said. “More than often it’s safer to go with matchups but the boys got on them early today and I was able to do it from there.”
All from the AP report.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
That Ozzie quote is interesting.
It can be interpreted as an underselling of Braden, a “he’s got better stuff than I thought” observation, or a vote of confidence in his own team, that they’re better than getting CG-owned by someone who’s not Lee/Halladay/etc.
Needs moar dingerz.
I take it at what it seems to be
He thought they should and would do better against Braden a week later and didn’t, and he’s giving credit where it’s due and being thankful he’s not a betting man because he’d have lost.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I'm listening and waiting for the f-bomb
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Aug 1, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL, so CT pulled together some quotes from The Club
And is “interviewing” Ozzie.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
