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Reworking the Athletics: An Introductory and a Call to Arms

We’ve all opined about the state of our A’s and their deficiencies in area after area, be it marketing or medical, or even what they are supposed to do best, putting the right players on the field. But reading a photo blog on the war in Afghanistan, and some quotes from soldiers on the ground, got me thinking about something. A soldier, when asked what he felt about the thoughts of those back home, and the people who come up to him and said that they ‘support the troops’,  opined;

"I’ve had people come up to me and say ‘I support the troops, I want you out of there.’ Really? What have you done to support the troops? What have you done other than complain?” [Source]

In other words, do something. And he has a point, quite often, about any subject, be it politics, war or even, yes, their favorite sports team, love to complain about the problem without doing anything to solve it.

Star-divide

Now obviously, I cannot just pick up a bat and save the day for the A’s. I can’t hit, I can’t pitch, and while I can field and run the bases, there are about a million others who can do just that, and much better than me. So I said to myself ‘what can I do?’

I looked back at my college career, past and present, and thought in my mind if there was anything I could apply to this quasi-real life situation of doing something instead of just being a complainer. And there it was. There was one thing that kept coming up in quite a few of my classes. It came up in my Business Case Development class. It came up in Project Management. It came up here, it came up there. Something that businesses that are down in the dumps, or see a bleak or bland future, or just want to bring themselves to the top of the game do; a Business Process Re-engineering.

What is Business Process Re-engineering? Business Process Re-engineering (BPR) is akin to tearing the whole organization apart and building a new one in its place based on the best practices or theories that we can find. The other option, Business Process Improvement (BPI) would be akin to firing the whole coaching staff and replacing them with someone else and hoping that gives you a 10% gain in performance.

As Wikipedia explains it;

“Business process reengineering is one approach for redesigning the way work is done to better support the organization's mission and reduce costs. Reengineering starts with a high-level assessment of the organization's mission, strategic goals, and customer needs. Basic questions are asked, such as "Does our mission need to be redefined? Are our strategic goals aligned with our mission? Who are our customers?" An organization may find that it is operating on questionable assumptions, particularly in terms of the wants and needs of its customers. Only after the organization rethinks what it should be doing, does it go on to decide how best to do it.” [Source]

Are the A’s really operating under the right processes right now? Are they operating on the right assumptions on what their true goal is? What IS the true goal of the Oakland Athletic, indeed?

The A’s are supposed to be innovated, and at the top at everything they can be that does not require $200 million dollar payrolls. But they are not. Indeed, they seem to have been slipping farther and farther behind ever since Moneyball came out and the baseball world was able to dissect our processes and readapt our philosophies better than we could ourselves. It is time to reinvent ourselves instead of patching our wounds with sawdust and duct tape. It’s time for a plan.

But I cannot do this alone. And I thought; who better than AN, the brain trust of the A’s, to help me. To become a team of our own and show what is needed and what the A’s can be.

I ask for volunteers for this mission, if you choose to accept it. What can you bring to the table? What advice can you give one way or another? What are the different functions of a Baseball Organization? What departments are there? At all levels of the organization? What do the A’s currently do the best? What do they do the worst? Any bits of information helps no matter if it is about observations on the behavior of the A’s, to how the A’s processes work right now inside the organization, it all helps.

So who is with me on this ambitious project? It may be tough, but it’s time to stop complaining, and to start doing.

Comment 134 comments  |  8 recs  | 

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Well

Any use of the word “engineering” by business schools is just a shabby attempt to create credibility through positive word association.

that’s all I have on this…

by ohmangoAs on Jul 29, 2010 10:31 PM PDT reply actions  

As an engineer, I heartily support this statement

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
– John Wooden

by elcroata on Jul 30, 2010 4:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Many people try to seem more intelligent/accomplished than they really are, not just in business schools

I’ve heard a guy call himself a “Network Engineer” for pretty much knowing passwords to a couple of computers and played WoW all day. It sorta spits on the Engineering degree I worked my ass off for.

by rightbackin on Jul 30, 2010 5:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry tangenting off topic

Great points Zonis and very interesting idea. Rec’d

by rightbackin on Jul 30, 2010 5:26 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's alright.

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I rec’d your post.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on Jul 30, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm in!

…once I figure out what that means.

rebuildingseason.blogspot.com

by Rebuilding Season on Jul 29, 2010 11:28 PM PDT reply actions  

An interesting exercise.....

….but one that is futile, like trying to figure out how many angels (lower case a) can fit on the head of a pin. Beane will do what he wants, no matter what we say. I know he gets interviewed on A’s Nation every now and then, but he makes his own decisions, and, because he is human, some of them are terribly wrong (when I think that Swisher, Cargo and Ethier could be in our lineup now instead of what we have……well, no more of that—-that way lies madness). Still, we were 14-10 in July and we have some pieces. I say forget the damaged goods——Sheets, Duke, Buck, and let’s play some athletes. Right now my underrated fave is Carson—-he looks like a ballplayer to me. Baseball is not rocket science—-too many intangibles. In fact, rocket science is not rocket science. Murphy’s Law, coupled with human fallibility, allows for the accidents we all have. Still, just like Sysiphus (sp), we keep pushing that rock up the hill, although we know that will eventually fall back. Absurd? Yes. Heroic? Yes.

"It's a cookbook!"---The Twilight Zone

by Buck18 on Aug 1, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

1) Find the greatest minds, figure out time travel

and select Albert Pujols instead of Jason Pomar in the 13th round of the 1999 draft.

2) a new promotion, properly diagnose an Oakland A’s player injury and get 2 free season tickets once he returns off the DL.

cover plaza level outfield and field level seats with a huge LED like from the summer Olympics and have images of fans from the Moneyball filming to create the illusion of people going to our lovely POS stadium. both raise player/organization morale.

3) Assemble a group of wealthy Mexicans, have they buy the Raiders and move them to Mexico city. Then use eminent domain, acquire all the land around the Coliseum and let Wolff play Sim City with it and build a stadium/restaurants/condos/shopping centers/parks/museums/whatever and make it so people want to time/money in Oakland.

Accept awesome condo/lifetime season tickets for helping Wolff and the joy of watching a new dynasty constantly beat up on the Angels/Giants/Yankees and everyone else.

OR

realize that I could never ever hack it as a replacement level player or as a scout/GM. So i’ll just let someone else work on the A’s and enjoy whatever highlights the team produces.

by buddahead9 on Jul 29, 2010 11:33 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

As a wealthy Mexican

I endorse this statement!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Jul 30, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

First question,

how wealthy?

Second question: wanna be friends?

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Jul 30, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have some loose change in my pocket

and could probably afford to buy you a Super Big Gulp.

Buddies?

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Jul 30, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Jul 31, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Man, this is a great post topic, Z

You are really bringin’ it lately. Good man.

Well…I’m going to be writing a lot of little separate blurbs in this thread, with separate ideas, because I think about this kind of stuff all the time and I got about 30 of ’em.

But take all of it with a giant grain of salt, because no one else thinks they are great ideas. In my younger years I wrote a few detailed “business plan” type ideas and sent them to the A’s front office.

Shockingly, they haven’t replied. ;)

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 12:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Doing away with static budgets at the major-league level

I don’t like the way the A’s (and seemingly all teams) seem to go year-to-year with a static rather than a dynamic budget.

Here’s what I mean:

The A’s off-season thought process seems to be this:

 “We’ve got $20M to spend, because we’ve got $40M committed, and we can support a payroll of about $60M this year. So…we’ll throw some money at Beltre, at Chapman, at Scutaro. Aw, shoot. None of them wanted it. We still have this $10M burning a hole in our pocket at this point. Which undesirable free agents remain on the market, waiting to take someone’s money?”

That’s a loser’s game. And it seems like the game we are playing. It’s a recipe for letting the big market teams get literally any piece they desire. It’s not too difficult in baseball to identify the top free agents. The big market teams get them, and they don’t even have to “overpay,” because there’s so few teams who can financially compete with them for offers.

Ex. Three teams place very competitive bids for Teixiera, while 10 teams place very competitive bids for Suppan. The middle-tier teams fall into the trap of saying, “This guy is actually in our price range,” but ultimately the sheer amount of bidders drives up the price to insane levels for mid-tier talent. The lack of bidders for the top-tier talent ends up meaning that the Yankees get them for deals that aren’t even outlandish. And that’s a problem.

So…teams – especially the A’s – need to play the game differently.

When they have $10-20M left over, and there’s no elite talent left, I’d much rather they roll that money over to the following year. And the following year. And the following year, if necessary. Right now, there’s not an elite player I want the A’s to target in FA for years. I don’t like any of the elite ones that are available in the class of 2011 (next offseason) or 2012.

But what if the A’s budgeted far enough down the road to make an incredible offer to a true superstar in free agency?

For example, right now, they started planning for the 2016 off-season.

After the 2015 season, they make overwhelmingly* the best offer to 26-year-old Jason Heyward, or 27-year-old Neftali Feliz.

*When I say "overwhelmingly the best offer, I don’t mean a half-hearted “we barely beat Boston’s offer” Scutaro/Beltre proposal. I mean a knock-your-socks-off offer, because that what it’ll take to get a really attractive FA to bypass NY or Boston. Remember, A-Rod’s Texas Rangers deal was considered crazy…but he actually earned every penny. It took him from age 25-32, and he was incredible valuable, and then he opted out. They just didn’t put a good team around him.

Having a dynamic payroll would allow the A’s to employ that free agent strategy.

Instead of signing Sheets, Duke, Crisp, Ellis etc., you go into 2010 with a $40M payroll. Same with 2011. Payroll goes up slightly in 2012-2014, as the current young pitching corps reaches arby, but the best of that crew can be traded for future young contributing assets, just as Haren/Mulder were. Then payroll suddenly makes a giant leap with the signing of the elite free agent.

$60M static payroll for 2010-2015 = $360M total dollars. I don’t like strategy, because it encourages spending on the “rest of the scraps” free agents, and prevents us from doing what we do best, which is finding undervalued scraps and getting them to surprisingly play at a league-average level.

Or, my conceptual proposal…

$40M in 2010, $40M in ‘11, $50M in ’12, $55M in ’13, $60M in ’14-’15…and then a huge jump to $90M, with the addition of an elite FA. The exact numbers aren’t as important here; the idea is that you’re basically “banking” money in the early years, with the knowledge that you are going to need it for your projected huge payroll jump when the right free agent comes along.

It’s a riskier approach, and devotes a huge chunk of the budget to one player, but if that player is great, it can work. Think of how smart it was for the Giants to sign Pirate Barry Bonds to what was at the time the richest FA contract in major league history, despite having far less than a $100M payroll. Bonds represented a pretty sizable chunk of the payroll at the time…and it worked out pretty well.

If the A’s play by the same rules as everyone else they’ll always be .500.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 12:51 AM PDT reply actions   4 recs

The only problem with this idea is that

Even if we banked our budget “surpluses” and the ownership invested them wisely and we made a seriously blockbuster offer to a top tier FA at the time, the Yankees STILL have more money than us. Sure, the A’s could offer a $315M contract to Hayward in 2015, but the Yankees very nearly have the capability to do that now (if they don’t already). It’s not as if the A’s money is going to grow and no one else’s isn’t.

I’d rather just invest wisely in one real FA as we go and stop spending money on three meh players.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 30, 2010 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

There's a couple of way to look at the Yankees

One way is to realize that Yankees fans [and the bandwagon idiots from across the globe who wear their ‘gear’] bring in enough revenue to allow the Yankees to do this.

The othe way to look at this is knowing the Yankees will be paying out big buck$ for A.J. Burnett [$16.5M through ‘13]; Teixeira [$22.5M through ’16]; Sabathia [$23M through ’15]; A-Rod [at least $20M through ’17]. No way to know for sure how that’s going to pan out for them but it would scare the heck out of me if any of them start to slide — FWIW, Burnett probably has already.

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like it
When they have $10-20M left over, and there’s no elite talent left, I’d much rather they roll that money over to the following year.

And when rosterbation occurs, the 25th man on the hypothetical roster can be listed as [insert name of AAAA player] and $19.6 Million dollar certificate of deposit earning [insert interest rate] for one year.

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

now batting 9th

an Accounts Receivable receipt for 19.6 million USD

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

There is a fundamental problem with this though (IMO)

When you have a limited payroll, and 1/3 [or whatever large percentage] of it is tied to one player you have huge risk associated with your roster. Look at how the Chavez contract seemingly limited the A’s payroll flexibility and he was only at about 11MM per year.

That said, this would be the way to get some difference makers in the A’s lineup and help them play well enough to make it to the post-season again.

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

it seems to me that the A's have done the exact opposite

By creating a “basket” of players who all contribute evenly, the A’s have decreased their variance and thus have a much easier team to project with regards to overall hitting and pitching performance. I think this was done by design, as discussed before, and is evidenced by their use of the entire 40 man roster. This is both a blessing and a curse because it is probably the main reason that they cannot/do not develop/acquire a > 2 WAR player.

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

It may make them easier to project....as being mediocre, but that isn't the objective

I’d rather they were harder to project and had a higher chance of big time success

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can the Athletics get some difference-makers in the stands, first...

so that they can pay the salaries of difference-makers? [/let the chicken and egg argument restart]

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

No.

It’s incumbent on any business to invest in its product before expecting revenue growth.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

this

The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.

by designatedforassignment on Jul 30, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's been tried -- up until 2006, in fact.

The team’s ownership invested in a product that perennially went to the playoffs. Revenue even grew! It grew to only one percent above the league average — at its highest point — during the team’s fantastic run. Were expectations too high then?

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The fundamental problem with this is that hiring 4 crappy players is a higher risk than 1 great

player for the same money. Don’t want to spend $23M/yr on Crawford? Let’s split it 4 ways on Crisp, Sheets, Loiaza and Kotsay! That’ll win some pennants!

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well...

I’m talking about a philosophy and not specifics. I’m sure the A’s would prefer to increase the payroll so instead of having a bunch of 1-2 WAR players, they can have a bunch of 3-4 WAR players. This usually equates to having a higher payroll, and the A’s cannot operate with said higher payroll because they do not have the revenue stream to support it.

Thus I agree with LowCountryJoe: The A’s need to increase revenue stream, then invest this in slowly elevating the team talent level to acquire players that have the appropriate value, while not relying on a sole player’s contribution.

(The A’s are above .500 yet : Bottom of Attendance )

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am suggesting increasing payroll.

The A’s are run by one of the richest ownership groups in all of sports. If Wolff and Fisher (or Fisher’s money, at least) went out and bought some big-name players with big-money contracts on other teams, and went out and signed a few big-name free agents, and jacked that payroll up to double what they currently spend, fans would come.

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 30, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

You also have to consider the duration of the contracts

I would much rather have Crawford than the 4 players mentioned for 1 year. Do I want Crawford at $23M a year for the next 6 years? Maybe not, especially if he has an injury, which the A’s would not be able to stomach very easily.

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Crawford has an injury he's still no worse than 4 crappy guys

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about this list:

Marco Scutaro [2.2 WAR]
Adrian Beltre [3.7]
Rafael Furcal [4.6]

All the A’s primary targets who refused to sign with the A’s who had offered larger contracts.

If your primary targets refuse to sign with you what are you going to do? I would sign some player to a short term deal so I could have short term payroll flexibility so that in a year or 2, I could have the option to pursue a player I desired.

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Beltre would be about a 2 Win improvement over Kouzmanoff, but that's not

gonna turn this team into a contender.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

The A's should have actually offered them more money rather than dicking around

all of the above got the same or more where they currently are.

The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.

by designatedforassignment on Jul 30, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

it far from crippled the A's

The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.

by designatedforassignment on Jul 30, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are so correct

Nearly a forth of the team’s payroll for the last four years going to Chavez hasn’t been of a significance to this team. In fact, the team rolled right along without any crutches.

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you add 4 wins none of these teams have been playoff contenders

The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.

by designatedforassignment on Jul 30, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, then Crawford...

…or even someone like Crawford [whoever could have been at the time] wouldn’t have made a difference either, correct?

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

not necissarily

the A’s are going through a different cycle of contention than they were. The Chavez extensions were both good ideas.

The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.

by designatedforassignment on Jul 30, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't understand this

You had written that Chavez’s four wins would not have helped those teams [2007-present] be contenders. So, naturally, when I suggest that someone else’s [another player] four wins also would not have helped those teams, you claim “not neccessarily”. Please explain!

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think what he meant is that

four more wins wouldn’t have helped the 2008 team (because it was crappy), but the A’s will be fielding some less crappy teams in the next few years and then four extra wins could be enough to push them over the top.

by colin on Jul 31, 2010 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

From reading some of your comments in this thread

it really sounds like you have a boom or bust philosophy.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but given the A’s payroll limitations, you would prefer to:
  1. Sign high ceiling / low floor players
  2. Have a high percentage of the payroll in 1-2 players.

To me, this strategy really relies on putting together a string of lower probability events to have a dynamic club for a short period of time. Do you think you could sustain greatness over a long period of time, given the A’s payroll constraints? Would love to hear your opinion.

Look, I’m not saying what the A’s are doing is the best strategy to win the World Series this year, but given their limitations, they are trying their best to get by with a passable product on the field.

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree with your premise that high concentration increases risk when that concentration

is in a lower risk asset. Is 4 high risk assets lower risk in aggregate than 1 low risk asset? I say no. For example:

Scenario 1 — Sign Crawford for $23 million and play him in LF, and go with Taylor, Davis and Rosales at RF, CF and 2B. Total Budget $25 million

Scenario 2 — Sign Werth for $12 million and play him in RF, Sign Crisp for $6M, keep Ellis for $6M and keep Sweeney for $2M. Total Budget $26 million.

Which of the above is more likely to get you 5 WAA? In Scenario 1 you have Crawford for 4 WAA and you need one WAA out of 3 positions. Remember you’re Beane and Forst and expert at getting averageness on the cheap. If Crawford gets hurt, you’re not gonna be above average

In Scenario 2, you get maybe 2 WAA out of Werth, and you need all of Crisp, Ellis and Sweeney to give you 1 WAA each. Unless you get great years from everyone, you’re not gonna win anything.

Is it more likely that Crawford gets hurt or that Werth, Sweeney, Crisp and Ellis all have great years?

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair Points

My question to you would be: What is the main objective of your franchise?

Do you want to try and only make the playoffs and if not its a failure?

Do you care about the downside, the scenario where Crawford does get hurt and you are a 68 win team?

In your above scenario you are missing the probabilities for everything. What are the odds Crawford performs at a 4 WAA? 3 WAA? -5 WAA? Same thing for everyone else. You can then build a easily model which finds best return given your risk tolerance. Maybe you are ok with a few bad years. I come from the opposite perspective: give me a high floor and work from there. I prefer limited downside risk.

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

If your objective is to grow profits organically and build your brand you have to

aim for the postseason, either in the current year, or be building toward it in a future year. A’s attendance shows little difference between a 70 win team and a 80 win team. Your real attendance boost comes over 83 wins, with a big boost for each win over that up to about 93, after which it diminishes. Being very very sure of being at last non-horrible isn’t rewarded by the customer historically in Oakland. The A’s would be more profitable averaging 75 wins per year with 4 90+ win years per decade and 6 65-70 win years than they would with all 10 years of 78-83 wins.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

BTW I based the example on 5 WAA because you need 12 WAA to win 93 games

and even if the pitchers give you 4, and Suzuki and Barton give you 1-2 each, you still need a lot from the other positions. I’m assuming Kouzmanoff and Pennington are average.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't make sense to "bank surpluses" because your budgets are for one season for a reason,

namely that season tickets and broadcast contracts are for one season typically. Therefore you’re going to set your operating budget based on what your goals are for that season’s revenues. If you think Crisp Sheets for $15M is going to help to reach those revenues more than pocketing the $15M you sign Crisp Sheets in 2010. If you think that signing Crawford in 2011 is going to get you to your 2011 revenue goal you do it, whether or not you rented Crisp Sheets in 2010. The 2010 decision is a sunk cost, or non-cost, in 2011.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Luxury tax money goes to Selig's office, not to the teams

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

He means the revenue sharing money.

You’re right. Luxury tax goes to MLB’s “industry growth fund”, while revenue sharing comes out of a different general fund.

The revenue sharing agreement specifies that the money must be used “to improve the product on the field.” It is suggested that this means player payroll, though it’s not clear if other expenditures might also meet that vague test.

In any case, Oakland’s payroll expense is comfortably larger than its revenue sharing receipts. Exact revenue sharing numbers are not made public, but it is estimated that the teams getting the most are getting about $40 million this year; Oakland’s payroll is $51 million.

What got Florida and others in trouble were those years when they whacked payroll all the way down to $15-25 million. Oakland isn’t even close to that.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are spot on in theory

But in practice I don’t think that would work. That strategy sounds like the Pirates way without the never sign anyone, just pocket the rev-sharing cash.

Baja been here

by bajablue on Jul 31, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't like the way teams scout amateurs

Everyone does it the same way. There’s a great thread on the Internet somewhere, maybe it was Sons of Sam Horn, that actually lists the exact amount of scouts that every team has.

Perhaps someone can actually find it.

Don’t quote me exactly, but it’s something like this:

Every team in major-league baseball has like 10-15 area amateur scouts. Total. Scouring all of North of America for talent. And no one has less than ~10, and no one has more than ~15 (IIRC, the Red Sox had the most).

Then they all have cross-checkers, whose job is to travel through and see the very best prospects that their area scouts are recommendation, to make sure two sets of eyes have seen their favorite guys.

Here’s what I don’t understand:

Millions and millions of dollars are at stake here, and the draft represents the best avenue for a small-market team to succeed. Why is there no team that has experimented with a drastically larger scouting department than anyone else? Why do they all do it relatively the same way?

I’m no paid scout, but I’ve watched and played a lot of baseball, and I think I’m better at scouting when I watching a game with someone else (assuming that person is watching as intently as I am, and has an equivalent pedigree in the game or better).

So…why do they send these guys off to do the job by themselves?

Why not double your scouting staff, and have two Northern California scouts instead of one, and 4-5 Southern California scouts instead of two? Wouldn’t these guys benefit from getting to watch games together and compare notes? (I’m assuming they couldn’t talk freely with the scouts from other teams for obvious reasons). Wouldn’t be nice if they didn’t have to take lonely four-hour car rides to go watch prospects – if they could instead take the car ride with a buddy riding shotgun who wants to do nothing but talk about the players you both just watched?

I am amazed that every team has one guy scout all of Northern California. I’ll go so far as to say that I think it’s crazy. It’s Friday night in May, there’s 200 different aces pitching all around the Bay Area, including Stanford and Cal, and your organization is going to go watch a grand total of…one of them.

And then they’ll make a draft decision after seeing him one time. Maybe he had food poisoning that day or was distracted because it’s first game his mom ever missed in his life. Who knows if you didn’t see him twice. But they only have the resources to see top 1-2 picks twice. Crazy.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:08 AM PDT reply actions   4 recs

Addendum to that point...

I don’t think it’s coincidental that the Red Sox draft very well and that they have more scouts than anyone.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

If the numbers you tried to remember are correct

Wouldn’t Red Sox draft success be more due to the over the slot signing than having at most 5 scouts more than the worst scouting department in the MLB?

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
– John Wooden

by elcroata on Jul 30, 2010 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good point

And to keep on that topic – a book tip for those who haven’t yet read it: Prophet of the Sandlots.

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
– John Wooden

by elcroata on Jul 30, 2010 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

YES

rec’d. Considering we are going to pay Coco Crisp $5.5M this year to play in around 90 games, I fail to see how potentially finding the next Jason Hayward for around the same money spent in scouting ISN’T valuable.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 30, 2010 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Heyward is a great example.

Did anyone else read that Sports Illustrated profile of him? Every other team passed on him in the top half of the first round because when they went to watch him play (once or twice), “all he did was walk.” But the Braves, having the benefit of seeing him in their own backyard, had seen the hitting talent that was there.

If each team had more area scouts, and could’ve watched him play 5-6 times, instead of 1-2, maybe someone with a top-10 pick would’ve had the good sense to pop him there.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 31, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't know that more scouts is the right answer, but scouting exactly the same way everyone

else does doesn’t sound very creative. If you want to assign 1 scout to follow, say 4 potential Top 5 round draft choices in all their games, I don’t have a problem with it, but it does sound like overkill.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Commission a team to study park factors when you build your next park

You have an opportunity to build a new park every 30-50 years. You’d be silly not to research ways to make that park in such a way that it creates the opportunity to have a home-field advantage in it.

For example, a short porch in right field, coupled with a conscious effort to draft and recruit pull-happy lefties; or, a park with crazy-deep fences, which actually makes it more justifiable to play an outfield of Coco Crisps, who can leg out triples and inside-the-parkers on offense while fully maximizing their defensive gifts with all that ground to cover.

Some advantage or distinct feature that makes the park clearly appeal to a particular type of player, such that that player actually is attracted to playing in the A’s park.

If they build a generic park and miss out on that strategic opportunity, I’ll be disappointed.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:15 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I think you overestimate the ability of engineers to predict park effects.

Things like wind are fiendishly difficult to model. Billions of dollars are spent trying to model similar problems in more important situations (eg, building bridges that won’t break), and even there its commonplace to miss things and have to adjust accordingly. The effect on a flying baseball in a certain park at certain times of day is a function of small-scale details far more tricky than the gross effects commonly looked for. I think it’s unrealistic to think it can be well predicted with any study that doesn’t cost more than that stadium itself.

As for a basic analysis to get the less subtle stuff, sure. But they already do that.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

But I think it's fair to say that Coco Crisp and Rajai Davis will hit more triples in a cavernous outfield.

And I think it’s fair to say that, based on what we know of the Bay Area and the different parts of it, that certain dimensions in certain areas will be more or less likely to produce home runs. And I think it’s fair to say that bigger foul territory makes an offense less successful.

We don’t have to predict exact outcomes to know some basic ideas that will help us map out a future for the franchise.

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 30, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure, you can always move the fences around.

That’s an easy tweak. It’s predicting the wind and interaction with the marine layer that’s going to be next-to-impossible.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think coaches are underrated and perhaps underpaid

How much money has Dave Duncan made for mediocre pitchers in his career? It’s like, they find him, they develop a sinker, and they owe him the rest of the career and untold millions.

It seems like there are few very standout, notable coaches in MLB, where the players who work with them end up saying, “That guy was amazing, he turned my career around.”

When you consider that elite players are making 10 times the salary of these coaches, wouldn’t it make sense to pay a few million if necessary to poach the very best ones away?

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:18 AM PDT reply actions   4 recs

Rick Peterson was a pitching coach

*WARNING!* Playing online multiplayer games may change your: Religion, Sexual Orientation, Race and/or Gender for undetermined periods of time.

by Zonis on Jul 30, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes aware of that

didn’t fully complete my thought though. Probably why I have struggled in my writing classes my entire life.

Though how much of that was Peterson and how much of that was having 3 very good pitchers. I recall Peterson having very good conditioning programs – was he able to keep Mulder, Hudson, Zito healthier than they would have been for another club? Hudson and Mulder did break down quickly after leaving the A’s. Zito quickly dropped to the low 80s in velocity. Perhaps it’s just coincidence.

by echerrst on Jul 30, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hudson seems to be doing fine over in Atlanta this year.

Really wish we still had that guy. He was always the one I liked the most out of the Three. I thought Zito was fun and kooky, but Hudson was the guy I would give the ball to in the crucial game, and honestly, I would probably still give him that ball as soon as I would to any other pitcher in the game that isn’t Lee or Halladay.

by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 30, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Having a better conditioning program might help with durability, but I don't know that the culture of strength

over flexibility and endurance is easily changed.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

What the A's do the best/what the A's do the worst

To the A’s credit, they always seem to have outstanding depth. They never seem to get caught with egg on their face and no legitimate backup at a position. They are like a 1-2 WAR Player Factory. They turn up random unheralded relievers and turn them into successful bullpen cogs. They find unwanted dudes on the waiver wire and make other teams realize that they should’ve wanted those unwanted dudes.

What the A’s do the worst:

*Develop elite 5-6 WAR talent. I suspect this is largely a function of their risk-averse, college white boy draft strategy of year’s past. Thankfully it appears they’ve recently moved more in the direction of prioritizing high upsides and athleticism.

*Build stadiums.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:22 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

swallowing money in trades

the A’s do it, and it’s smart. Penny foolish and pound smart, if you will. Kind of the anti-Casey Blake-for-Carlos Santana move.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thankfully it appears they’ve recently moved more in the direction of prioritizing high upsides and athleticism.

Agree, specially on the offensive part of the game. The A’s always focused on players that had good plate discipline and knew the strike zone (Daric Barton, Hatty, Cust, Swish)

The A’s system needs more Chris Carters, even if Carter himself is a bust, power hitters are as expensive as pitching

by RememberDurazo on Jul 30, 2010 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Barton, Cust and Swisher are all good hitters. Their problem is that they don't have any

one better than those guys. They have no All-Star talent. That requires being less risk-averse and hiring better scouts.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

absolutely a spot on point NSJ!

I’m hoping Michael Choice turns out to be one of those players for a change and perhaps maybe Grant Green. Though Carter and Taylor were not home grown, they could also perhaps turn out to be those type of players….a few other things that are on my mind as well…..take a deep breath.

 I would like and support keeping a great rotation together for the better part of an entire decade ala the Braves back in the 90’s. Current ex: Anderson is locked up already, so is Zooks. Now you do the same with Cahill, and perhaps Gio and Mazarro if they can show continued growth. That’s one talented group right there and Braden is no slouch when he’s healthy. Depth wise, Ross is still a ways from developing into a big league pitcher and Mortensen is a nice backup #5 guy, and if Oiutman ever recovers he is a solid starter as well. Back to my point…. I like the idea of a group of guys staying and growing together, especially when you have a bunch of young, talented, and cost controlled pitchers……..which is a premium and the one thing that A’s do really well! Lock them up and keep them together for crying out loud! The average age of our starters at the moment is 23!
That’s amazing considering the overall success they have had already, especially with Cahiil.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t want the A’s to have all this great work in developing a “what could very well be an uber rotation” just be traded away for more future performance. I’m tired of that shit and I know many others are as well. I fully realize that Billy Beane has had to rely on this method to compete with a limited budget over the last decade but that way of operating has grown tired, in my opinion. Beane can’t do that forever and nor should he have to….if he didn’t have to worry about his budget like crazy every year I can only imagine what he might be able to accomplish.

This goes back to the ownership again. If your goal is not to win the brass ring every year then you should not be an owner of a professional sports franchise! Realistically and by the laws of average, this isn’t going to happen, I know. However, it doesn’t change the premise of having the mindset of “We’re in it to win it!”. I want a winner and an ownership whose main focus is to win! It’s a business, yes.

Yet, I tell you the business of winning is good business.

Someone mentioned this as a business model earlier…If you want to make money you have to be willing to spend even more…sometimes that means you lose money in the process. Or like my grandpa Martin used to say, “You can’t get rich if you don’t gamble sometimes…”

Anyways, it sure would be nice to have an ownership like the Haas family again that cared about its fans and the community at large…and more importantly cared about “winning”. That’s all I got for now and I’m hopeful as always that things are gonna change for the better Go A’s!

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Jul 30, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd just like to see a trainer who looks physically fit.

I’d call that Mark Verstergerern (sp) guy at the Athletes Performance Institute in Arizona that every MLBer trains at in the off-season. It says something that MLBers, paying with their own dime, choose to go that place, and that guy, when they want to rehab and get bigger/faster/stronger. I’d say to him, “I’m giving you a million bucks to be our consultant. Answer me this: If I gave you an unlimited budget, how would you build your ideal major and minor league training staff? Can you do a walk-through with us and watch my guys, taking note of what we are doing that doesn’t look like best practice? Then, can you clean house for me and hire exactly the people you’d recommend, using your industry contacts?”

(Again, similar to my adding scouts idea, none of this shit even comes close to the $10M we spent signing Sheets, which is money we’d re-direct under my revised budget, rather than simply lighting it on fire and roasting mallows, which we did instead).

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:29 AM PDT reply actions   4 recs

*Prepares more popcorn

Oh my god NSG

this is amazing, KEEP GOING

by RememberDurazo on Jul 30, 2010 1:35 AM PDT reply actions  

+1

Somebody posting good stuff during daytime! Keep going NSJ!

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
– John Wooden

by elcroata on Jul 30, 2010 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

daytime for you friend,

1:30 a.m. bottle feeding for me. :(

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

little guy is in my profile pic - 8 months now!

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I've seen that

Congratulations on that, and really glad that you find some time to chime in between the diapers and the pacifiers.

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
– John Wooden

by elcroata on Jul 30, 2010 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

thank you

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

My best friend had same sleeping habbits with his daughters

Only that in Europe, when you bottle feed at 1:30 AM you get to watch live baseball. Him being a Seattle fan, I think his little girl learned to say “Willy F$%&ing Bloomquist” before she die “Mama”.

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
– John Wooden

by elcroata on Jul 30, 2010 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

word......

you got me all fired up NSJ! I was gonna jst write one thing to one of your green posts above but ended up spouting a mini novel! :)’

"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets

by mrod on Jul 30, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd like the A's to have a stronger relationship in Japan

It seems like the Mariners have kind of cornered the market on “West Coast team that has capitalized on their proximity to Pacific Rim.” Obviously their signing of Ichiro is 90-100% of that. But man, what a financial windfall their Ichiro investment has been.

The A’s play in a market that has a very strong Indian and Asian population (many of whom have a good deal of expendable income, I might add).

What if they made a play for Yu Darvish when he gets posted eventually? Darvish has both Indian and Japanese bloodlines, IIRC. I realize Darvish has never expressed interest in playing here, and that his excessive pitch counts would make for a scary long-term financial investment, but hey, this is the think-outside-the-box thread, not the “sign Gabe Gross” thread.

Imagine if you could galvanize millions of Bay Area people who weren’t previously baseball fans at all and get them to buy A’s Darvish jerseys. The A’s are in constant battle with the Giants for the hearts and future dollars of future generations of Bay Area consumers. Once a family becomes “Giants fans,” it’s pretty hard to break that spell. But take thousands of families who have never before cared about baseball…invest in an immigrant cultural icon who could capture their interest…it might prove lucrative for the franchise, even if Darvish disappoints somewhat on the field.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:49 AM PDT reply actions   4 recs

invest in an immigrant cultural icon who could capture their interest

Fernando Valenzuela sends his regards

by RememberDurazo on Jul 30, 2010 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, good call.

Before my time, so I didn’t think of him, but…awesome call. That’s exactly the impact I’m talkin’ about.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Darvish

His mother is Japanese, his father is Iranian.

by HCF from Oakball on Jul 30, 2010 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

On a related note

The Cubs are semingly wanting to rid themselves of Fukudome and might even want to pay some of his salary.

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Seattle hasn't capitalized on its "proximity to the Pacific Rim"

so much as it just has strong ties to Japan. I would say this is almost entirely a function of the fact that the team is Japanese owned.

If you want the A’s to compete in that arena, have Fisher and Wolff sell the team to Mitsubishi.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm all for an ownership group that's focus on building brand rather than building stadia.

Fisher’s main qualification is that he’s a real estate guy who can get a deal done with San Jose. He has no expertise in, nor apparently instincts for, building a brand. Rather than being the de facto CEO, he should have been a VP In Charge of New Stadium working for a CEO whose expertise is building brand.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

By Fisher I mean Wolff of course.

Fisher should be looking for a real CEO to sell 15% of his stake to and become Wolff’s boss.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Focusing on brand development is good for a team's

financial health, but not so good for it’s win-loss record. The Mariners are living that.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Yankees and Red Sox beg to differ

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

how about opening the first full-time baseball academy in India?

I think it would be cool if the A’s could help spread baseball to traditionally non-baseball-crazy countries.

The downside is they wouldn’t see a payoff for like 20 years.

The upside would be, in a country of a billion people, at least a few million become A’s fans. Kind of like the way the Chinese felt about the Bulls during Jordan’s prime. He made the Bulls logo a global brand.

Building the first academy in a hugely populated country might be a small step in the same direction.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 1:57 AM PDT reply actions   4 recs

I volunteer to do something for this India academy, and, if you act now, I'll throw in China for free!

Just pay my lavish travel expenses.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

high-tech sign-stealing technology, sponsored by Cisco

The technology is definitely there. Visitor’s dugout wiretaps, with the audio piped in to Geren’s bluetooth; a plethora of magnified resolution hidden cameras throughout the park directed at the catcher’s crotch, third base coach’s box, bench coach, etc., along with post-game video analysis matching the signs up with the outcome of the play (bunt, steal, etc.).

Obviously we get into ethics here, but some teams are engaging in this kind of stuff on a lower level already (Phillies using binoculars in the CF bullpen, A-Rod peeking back at the signs in the batter’s box, etc.). And that’s just the stuff we’ve heard about.

The challenge (beyond the obvious pangs at your conscience) would be all the modern-day player movement. You couldn’t ever keep what you were doing a secret with free agents moving every year.

Unless…unless…it was kept a secret between Geren and the front office, and Geren was the only field personnel privy to the info…Geren is going to be a 20-year Jerry Sloan/Mike Scoscia type after all…hmm…

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 2:06 AM PDT reply actions  

This is one of the reason of why I think the Patriots and Bill Belichick have been so freaking good over the years.

I wouldn’t mind if the Raiders did that as long as they win more games

by RememberDurazo on Jul 30, 2010 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Off-topic, but I'm putting this here b/c I think this will become the "thread of the day":

Since my Montero-for-Bailey deal collapses with Bailey on the DL…

How about Ryan Kalish?

Would the Red Sox accept a deal of Breslow and Wuertz for him + a lower-level prospect?

Kalish fills a couple of important needs:

*Long-term, our outfield situation looks like of grim, and he could form a Taylor-Kalish-Choice OF.

*He bats left-handed, providing some much-needed long-term balance in a lineup with RH’s Choice/Carter/Taylor/Suzuki or Donaldson/Green.

*He’s easy on the eyes, which helps keep Pam, OakA’sHoney, baseballgirl and company happy.

"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango

by notsellingjeans on Jul 30, 2010 2:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah that's definitely the most important thing to me.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Jul 30, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's funny cause it's ...

um, no. But it’s still funny.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sheets for Kalish

Sigh.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 30, 2010 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of all the outfield prospects on earth you single out Kalish as being "easy on the eyes"?

Methinks Pam, OAH, BBG and co., aren’t the ones you’re thinking about.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Go Europe

Right now it is the Twins at the forefront, and most of the kids who get signed here (last signing bonus was $800,000, btw.) do so by the Twins organization. But, like everyone else, they are not really present here. Sure, teams have scouts, they organize a clinic every now and then, but when players generally start competing against talented opponents only at the age of 17, 18 it is mostly too late. Much more can be done. Building a training complex in say, Germany, could be a great investment for the A’s, both player-wise and from economical standpoint. Here are my thoughts, dime free a dozen.

  • Put a couple million in the infrastructure somewhere in a densely populated area. What you need is a central training complex with 1-2 playing fields and 3-4 training ones, and an academy-like housing. Also invest in renovating the existing fields in the area.
  • Put another million in PR and make baseball one of the recognized school sports in elementary schooling. This is crucial, so pay as much as you need to get it done, one way or the other. Work with the city council, support some of their other projects and in return have a huge talent pool at the age where you can still teach them everything and where you can make them fans for life. Long term goal – make 5 players to play for the A’s and 500,000 who will buy A’s jerseys.
  • Organize Little League-like tournaments between schools. Most of the youth sport in Europe is team based, not school based – having sponsored competitions between schools would attract more people — not only the kids that play — thus raising awareness and future income possibilities.
  • Provide lodging for older kids from outside the immediate area and make arrangement with one or more high schools in the neighborhood, preferably of good academic quality. Work out class scheduling that will allow for practices, games and travel. Have parents feel good about the prospect of having their teenage kids live away from home. Teach English and Spanish alongside baseball.
  • Split up the kids and have them compete in one of the German Leagues, depending on their level of talent. There are six levels of competition for adults and most successful German teams have their second or third team, comprised mostly of talented 16-17 year olds competing against “normal” adults.
  • Work closely with the existing local teams. Nobody likes an intruder, yet the prospect of such an influx of investment can only benefit the existing clubs. More games and more attention can bring them better revenues, too.
  • Regularly take the best kids to summer leagues in the States. Bring them to an A’s game. Have them meet some players and roam the big league clubhouse. The competition against peers in the US will make them better and more humble. The defeats will make them work harder and so will the taste of what might lay ahead. It will also make the other kids envious of the trip, in turn making everybody work harder.
  • Push your people on important decision-making panels both in German-, European- and World Baseball Federation. This will help you shape the national and international competition schedule as well as legal stuff concerning signing and availability.
  • Use the popularity wave. I never thought a day would come where I would see German national team signing autographs for an hour with never less than 100 people in line, most of them kids. I did two days ago. Unlike many other European countries, Germany is fielding mostly home grown talent and has a decent baseball infrastructure already, due to many NATO bases around the country. Holland and Italy are well known hot beds, but Germany is coming along very quickly.
  • Use the economic power of people here. It is one of the better economies in the world and there is plenty of potential of redirecting a chunk of that towards baseball. Perhaps work out a specific MLB.tv/MiLB.tv package deal available for the area covering the A’s and their Minor League affiliates, where people could follow their countrymen. Have your own channel of distributing baseball gear and work in the percentages with the equipment manufacturers.
  • Be the first one. If you do, you don’t even have to do everything perfect and you will still have people here associating professional baseball with the A’s (as cynics would say, something not many in the States do, anymore). Anybody following might have smaller initial investment (at least on the PR side) but nowhere close the connections and presence that will allow to run a sustainable and profitable business.
  • Hire the right man to run it. A’s, if you are reading, I am available and I’d do it in a heartbeat.

"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."
– John Wooden

by elcroata on Jul 30, 2010 3:35 AM PDT reply actions   5 recs

I'd be really jealous of this plan

It’s a bit disheartening that we can spoil an international market to generate interest while some domestic kids would kill to have the same opportunity. It’s an interesting dynamic, but that’s the nature of the current state of the game.

by rightbackin on Jul 30, 2010 6:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder if MLB clubs are more comfortable in a "colonial power" situation

where they can set up academies in a poor, developing country and throw money around at teenagers looking for a way out of poverty. Buying land and setting up and running an academy in Germany, for instance, would be a completely different kind of operation.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 30, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are poor European kids looking for a way out of poverty....or unemployment.

All the major football clubs in Europe have youth academies that benefit from this.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, but the societies are wealthier

which means that it’s more expensive to buy land, to build and staff a complex, and sign players. in 2008, gross national income per capita in Germany was $42,440. In the Domincan Republic, it was $4,390. A $75,000 signing bonus just doesn’t mean the same thing in Germany as it does in the DR.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 30, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm thinking Mexico might be a better candidate than any of the countries mentioned here.

100 million people, history of baseball interest, no other academies that I know of. You could do it in conjunction with a lesser Mexican League team if encroaching on their territory were an obstacle.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

ich moechte

Moechten Sie ein Assistent?

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on Jul 30, 2010 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about starting with

A field manager that knows how to win. The Howe, Macha, Geren types are just ho hum. If you look back the 1980 club won 29 more games than the 79 club just by changing managers. When La Russa took over in 86 from boring Jackie Moore they took off right away. But are there any managers that can light a fire under a team any more?

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on Jul 30, 2010 9:23 AM PDT reply actions  

said LaRussa is a FA next season

*WARNING!* Playing online multiplayer games may change your: Religion, Sexual Orientation, Race and/or Gender for undetermined periods of time.

by Zonis on Jul 30, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd take him and Duncan back in a second.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

That would be good

It might also put butts in the seats. When Finley hired Billy Martin the team was so much fun to watch, not to mention it pushed the attendance up from 306,000 to 842,000 that year. It was the same bunch but Billy told them that they could win, and they believed it. La Russa and Duncan put the right players in correct roles, and took guys off of the scrap heap and made them stars.
But would Beane and company let the manager do their job? If they could talk him in coming back, I am sure the team would win another 10 to 15 games.

Stomp,em, stomp the piss out of em.Then pound the budweiser after the game. Joe Schultz Seattle Piolts Mgr 1969

by billyball1981 on Jul 30, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm enjoying the NSF show, but getting back to

Zonis’s original premise: I don’t doubt that many baseball organizations would benefit from some business process re-engineering, but I don’t see how there’s anything any of us can do to help unless we’re actually hired by the team. That’s partly because if they haven’t asked for our advice there’s little chance of getting them to listen to it, but mostly it’s because we can’t even form any constructive advice until we get inside the organization and actually see how it operates. It’s not like we can decide how to re-engineer the organization just from watching the games and noticing what shows up on the transaction wire. We barely even know the organizational structure. Who reports to whom? What is each department’s responsibility? We have no clue.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 11:29 AM PDT reply actions  

You're saying our posting is pointless because we're ignorant?

That’s not a good way to build traffic to this site.

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, not saying posting is pointless at all.

No more than it’s pointless for us to speculate about trades, batting lineups, etc. It’s fun, and that’s what blogs are for.

It’s just that Zonis seemed to be putting this is a special category as a way in which we as fans could actually do something to help the A’s, and I don’t think it’s that.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

All it would take is some asst somebody in the organization

 to read this post and say 2 months from now offer it as his own opinion to someone higher, victory yes?

by brian.only on Jul 30, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not.

You seem to be reading my post as something other than what I meant to say.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 30, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

In that case I misunderstood what you were trying to say

Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl

by WaddellCanseco on Jul 30, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think all iglew is trying to say is that

it is perfectly fine and interesting to talk about business issues, lineups, trades and anything else A’s related on an A’s blog.

However, while we can make somewhat informed analysis/suggestions about trades and lineups because we are fully privvy to both our rosters, but also other teams rosters and thanks to cots, we are also aware of what everyone is making salary-wise. It is very difficult to do more then discuss business issues until MLB and/or the A’s let us see their actual books – because until they do we are only making guesses about how their budgets work (and even how much they are) and those guesses could be wrong.

by AsFanInLA on Jul 30, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

And because we don't really know...

…how highly valued players are to other GMs (much less our own team’s GM), who’s really avaible in trades and at what cost, and what free agents are wanting before they agree to sign.

It’s fun to speculate. But it’s not realistic to see someone post as though they really know evrything that’s going on.

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 30, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

grrr

i really want to chime in on this subject but I have a lot of work to do the next couple of days.

by noava22 on Jul 30, 2010 2:48 PM PDT reply actions  

It seems to be that a BPR would be kind of overambitious

since we do not have access to the inner workings of the A’s well enough to analyse their processes, etc…

Should we reel back our expectations and go with a case/proposal of best practices for a slew of areas for the team?

*WARNING!* Playing online multiplayer games may change your: Religion, Sexual Orientation, Race and/or Gender for undetermined periods of time.

by Zonis on Jul 30, 2010 5:49 PM PDT reply actions  

This is actually what I was trying to do with my rock and a hard place serries so most of it is going to stay there but

I would invest $10m in pitching mechanics research for one.

The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.

by designatedforassignment on Jul 30, 2010 10:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Wiki?

This is a seriously awesome thread (almost worried about tipping other teams too much, but there’s nothing here they can’t find on their own anyhow) and I hope it doesn’t die! Seems that the whole format of this might be better suited to a Wiki or something though. I’m not sure what sort of capabilities SBNation has but a thread for such a diverse and in-depth topic is just prone to clutter.

by Jernskogen on Jul 31, 2010 9:41 AM PDT reply actions  

I'd like the A's to listen to their fan base, specifically AN.

I’m not saying act on everything said, but there are sooooooooo many good ideas on AN from minds that are just as capable as Beane et al. I think that if AN as a whole worked more on ideas, there would be billions. Take for example grover’s idea from May of last year. Looks pretty fucking genius right now, I’d say.

AN has also been clamoring for Carter in left, a proposal I see almost nothing wrong with. That’s just one example of hundreds that AN has come up with that could really help the A’s.

I’m sure the A’s look at things from multiple perspectives, and even read some of what we write. But when a group as smart as this puts in so much time, and comes up with so much evidence for different ideas, it’s a shame the team doesn’t consider them. If Beane listened to AN, Geren would be gone, and this team would probably have a win or two more in the books.

It’s difficult to literally help your team out, but the brains on this site could do it.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Aug 1, 2010 8:36 PM PDT reply actions  

Now that I actually read the idea, it's kinda bad.

Well the idea of Walker is great, the actual trade is bad. There were other, better Walker ideas IIRC.

Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM

by travdog6 on Aug 1, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

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