Michael Wuertz is Just Fine, Thank You
by danmerqury on Jul 27, 2010 7:00 AM PDT
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I don't know how Billy Beane did it, but in February 2009, he traded Richie Robnett and Justin Sellers to the Chicago Cubs for Michael Wuertz. The Cubs went on to release both of them that year (they're currently floundering around in the Yankees and Dodgers systems, respectively), while Wuertz went on to lead the majors in swinging strikes induced (by more than seven huge percentage points) and place fourth among all qualified relievers in FIP and xFIP. Wuertz was simply miraculous in 2009, striking out more than eleven batters every nine innings while walking less than three over the same period. George A. King III of the New York Post called him a "right-handed, slider-throwing freak".
So what happened?
After a well-deserved contract extension (2 years/$5.25MM with a club option for 2012) and a shoulder injury that put him on the shelf during April, the slider-throwing freak made his season debut in May and...had lost everything. At the beginning of June, he held a 7.27 ERA with a K/9 around half of what it was in 2009. His sliders were hanging, unable to fool anyone. His velocity was down across the board. Did Billy just hand out money to a guy who had finished a fluky unrepeatable season? Or did he give out another big contract to a player among the many to never fully return from an injury?
Nope. Wuertz is back. Not the bad 2010 Michael Wuertz, but the slider-throwing freak of last year. His shoulder injury had some lingering effects, but Wuertz's velocity is finally back to what it was in 2009.
The average velocity of Michael Wuertz's pitches from month to month are indicated by the high point of each bell curve. The width of each curve indicates the consistency of his velocity, where a wide bell curve means that his velocity varied significantly from appearance to appearance. It's immediately obvious from the graph—Wuertz's arm strength is finally back to normal, and with that, his velocity consistency has returned as well.
But what about movement? Velocity is one thing, but if the shoulder injury has ruined his slider to the point where he consistently leaves them up, all the velocity in the world isn't going to help. Thankfully, that's back too.
This movement chart shows all of Michael Wuertz's pitches this year, separated by pitch type and month, in terms of pitch break in inches from the catcher's point of view. Each oval has a radius of two standard deviations, which is fancy math talk that basically says that each oval is drawn so that it encompasses 95% of the pitches it is measuring. There's a small change in his fastball movement, but I'm more interested with his slider. Look at the huge increase in consistency! July's slider oval is less than half the size of May's, which means that not only has Michael Wuertz's velocity returned, his slider's consistency is back to where it should be. And on top of all that, his slider has increased its drop. He's essentially stopped hanging them, which he did all too frequently in May.
Welcome back, you big slider-throwing freak. Sure is nice to have another relief ace out there. And it couldn't have come at a better time.
The A's kick off a crucial series in Arlington, TX, against the Rangers. Tonight, lefty Gio Gonzalez opposes new Ranger ace Cliff Lee at 5:05 PM, Pacific Time.
Current Series
3 game series vs Rangers @ Rangers Ballpark in Arlington
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Oakland Athletics Tuesday, Jul 27, 2010, 5:05 PM PDT Partly cloudy,rain. Winds blowing in from center field at 5-10 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 95. |
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| Wed 07/28 | 5:05 PM PDT | |
| Thu 07/29 | 5:05 PM PDT | |
329 comments
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I really, really don't want them to trade Wuertz unless the offer is just too good to be true
I’m all for selling high (this wouldn’t be selling high) and I understand that most relievers are fungible. But that doesn’t mean you HAVE to get rid of good ones. I also think that a pretty good bullpen is important for a good team. I think the A’s are really close to being a contender (of course getting swept by Texas would change that).
How crappy would it be if the 2011 A’s, otherwise awesome, were bad because Bailey was the only reliable reliever?
If the A’s trade Wuertz before the 2012 season after picking up his option, I’m fine with it. But there’s just no good reason to trade him now. Even if he does get hurt again and that kills his trade value, that’s fine. They’ve gotten some good production out of a guy they gave up nothing to acquire.
Sometimes it’s okay to keep good players and not ultimately get something for them when they’re gone. I think this is one of those cases.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 7:46 AM PDT reply actions
I like Wuertz, and I don't think he'll be traded unless it's for a Top 50 position prospect.
If they can actually get Jose Iglesias, for example, I think they have to do it. I just don’t think they can.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, if there's a "we really can't pass this up" offer, take it.
But I also wouldn’t be actively trying to get rid of him to get something. He’s had a number of years of being a good to great reliever. He’s almost certainly going to be worth they money they’re paying him.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
They aren't likely to get an unbelieveable offer anyway
It seems like most teams overvalue closers and undervalue other relievers. That’s why Beane was able to land Wuertz so cheaply.
You never know
Some teams value relievers much higher than Oakland.
I mean, hell, New York actually offered the Royals Montero in a Soria package and the Royals turned it down!
Now I’m not saying Wuertz would not a top 10 guy, but he could very well get a guy around the top 50 if someone thinks he can close or be a premier setup guy
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 27, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
FYI
I’d trade Bailey for Montero in a heartbeat.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Not disagreeing, but I'm curious
where and when you would plan to play Montero. Does your plan entail trading away Suzuki and/or Barton?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
If Montero could actually stick at Catcher, I'd have no problem at all moving Suzuki to make room
once Montero actually proves he can stick there, that is.
Pam liked my old sig better.
this
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Heck, you don't even have to keep Montero if you like what you've got at his possible positions
Having a guy like that can also be useful in a trade with another team to bring in an established guy.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Then don't trade him
That’s all I’m saying. There’s no NEED to trade him. Only trade him if the haul is especially good.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
That's how I'd look at it
If a really good opportunity comes along, I think you have to bite the bullet and trade him. But if it’s just a “solid, fair trade,” I’d keep him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's my point
You’re not likely to get enough in return to justify what you’d lose. It’s really no different than the reasoning you’d use in any trade.
Completely agree
I love my Oakland A's
by Philip Christy on Jul 27, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
MLBTR mentioned your post Dan
You da man!
things are looking up
cust is hitting home runs, anderson is coming back, braden finally had a good day, wuertz is back to being nasty…
being swept by texas would put a damper on life, but i think we’re in good shape to do some ass kicking this week to make things interesting. then again, that could just be my irrational propensity to try to put a positive spin on everything…
BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?
It's good to positive spin on everything. Very good. Superb.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 27, 2010 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
This series is so, so huge.
They have to win the series (and a sweep would be really nice) to be in the race. I wouldn’t be surprised if Beane was waiting to see how this series went to make moves. If they lose a couple, guys get traded. If they win, he might add a piece or two.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. Tonight's game isn't even "crucial"
in that the toughest matchup comes first (which is how I like it). No matter what happens today, Cahill-Lewis and Mazzaro-Wilson have potential to go the A’s way. I’ll take 2 out of 3 on the road any time.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I fear CJ Wilson a little
he looked on point in his last start against the Angels.
However, an interesting note on TX: ever looked at Lewis, Wilson & Feldman’s pitch counts this year? Going into that brutal Texas summer, wouldnt it be considered an unwise move to be making those 3 go 100-120 every start leading up to August???
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Wilson is now 50 IP over his previous career high
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wash has been just brutal on his starters barring Hunter
No wonder Beane didnt want him managing his young SPs.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
That probably comes from Nolan Ryan
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
True
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Going against conventional wisdom isn't always wrong
“Brutal” is when Billy Martin consistently has his pitchers going nine innings and ignoring pitch counts altogether.
Nolan Ryan is using standard pitching paradigms of twenty years ago. For all we know, it may be more brutal for pitchers to consistently only go 100 pitches or less rather than 110-120 every time out. It’s not as if we’re seeing a huge drop in injuries considering current theories.
Yeah, to me pitch counts be damned.
Looking at pitch counts individually is a bad way to evaluate a starters workload. There are just too many variables (throws to 1st, warmup pitches, etc.).
However, I think those guys could fall apart because of their inning load jumping so much. Something has to give. I think Colby Lewis will be the one to break down, after coming from the shorter seasons over in Japan.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 27, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
It seems strange to me that you think pitch counts are a bad way to evaluate workload,
because there are too many variables, but you think innings are better…
There are a lot more variables within an inning count than a pitch count.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
agreed
an IP can be 10 pitches or it can be 30 pitches. It is impossible to tell isn’t it?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Well you could count.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and then you are counting pitches
duh
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
nice
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember geren saying
the A’s evaluate the past three starts for work load.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
smart.
honestly, I’ve never had a problem with the way the A’s treat their starting pitchers as far as workload. I think they’re pretty good at that.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
But who’s going to argue with Nolan friggin Ryan? As mentioned, maybe his philosophy will turn out to be legit- it certainly didn’t hurt him.
He could easily be falling victim to the
“Everyone’s like me, right?” trap. It didn’t hurt him is not a good basis for an organizational philosophy, considering Ryan was in the 99th percentile of freakish health.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
OR....
He just doesn’t buy a lot of the pitch count hype that we’re seeing today. And it’s possible that innings (which means a rest between bursts of pitches) is as important, if not more so, than pitch counts.
There are so many theories regarding pitch counts, but the current ones don’t seem to created any declines in injuries. Looking at the A’s, for instance, in 2010, three members of the starting staff have been shelved due to elbow injuries. And that’s nothing, compared to other staffs.
The jump in innings seems to be widely accepted, though,
and Wilson in particular is really going to test that.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How many stints on the DL have Rangers starters accumulated?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Hunter, Harden, Holland
Among pitchers whose names don’t begin with “H,” though, I think they’re doing pretty well.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Doesn't Harrison belong in that group as well? He was on the DL last year for sure...
Didn’t Hunter have two stints on the DL this year? I know he had one last year…
Obviously, the Rangers should just avoid “H” pitchers.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Harden doesn't really count, either.
He’s sort of like unwrapping the packaging that childrens’ toys come in—impossible to avoid injury no matter how you handle it.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Id argue with Joe Morgan about anything baseball-related
Why not Nolan Ryan?
The game changed and many of these old timers didnt.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
To what end here?
The playing of the game has changed and arguing with old timers makes sense. The question is whether the arm evaluation/injury end of it has changed for the better. And we’re not talking about 90 pitches vs. 150 each time out either. Or 9 innings vs. 5 innings each time out either. We’re talking about pitchers regularly being pulled in the 6th or 7th inning rather than the 8th inning (in other words, not being able to work out of late inning jams) and we’re talking about pitchers pulled at 95-105 pitches instead of 112-120.
The reason for both is apparently health-related. But there doesn’t seem to be any proof whatsoever that the extra fifteen pitches per game destroy a pitcher’s arm.
My very unscientific impression
is that A’s pitcher health was considerably better when Rick Peterson was here and considerably worse since then. Wasn’t Peterson strict about pitch counts? I don’t think it’s just a matter of picking an arbitrary number and sticking with it, but I do think it’s a matter of watching carefully and taking guys out when they need to come out. I remember during the Mecir/Tam/Rincon eras fans were often furious when Mulder would get taken out in the 8th inning even though he was pitching well and the bullpen sucks, but Peterson was adamant, in a way that the A’s staff has not been since then.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
i think it has a lot to do with high stress innings with a lot of pitches
some research suggests that its better to throw 60 pitches for 6 innings than 60 pitches in three innings.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you think another varible is what kind of pitches they are throwing?
It seems to me that there have been some that believe that pitchers arm strength is not developed in current days like they were in past years. Some think that the old pitchers like Ryan grew up throwing mostly 4 seam fastballs and then developed breaking pitches later than they now do.
"Life is tough .... It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne
I'm not saying innings are a better way to evaluate
I’m just saying that when guys have an increase in 50+ IP from the last season then you have cause for concern.
I never said Innings Pitched are a better way to evaluate workload.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 27, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, but I think being 6 1/2 back on July 30th means guys are a lot more likely to move than 4 1/2. It's only two games but it seems like 20.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the A's have an opinion on whether or not this team
can make a real push, and won’t let one series change that opinion. Now personally, I suspect that opinion is, “Not really,” but we’ll see.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But at some point if they keep winning don't they have to go "well, hey, maybe we don't kinda suck and actually we're kinda good"
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
At some point -- but they can also look at their team
and make a reasonable projection. And they might notice that their outfield, and middle of the order, is kind of a cesspool of yuck.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think its more of a difference
of having to be blown away or getting a good deal
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
So stoked on a pretty meaningful series in July!
If we sweep the rangers….ITS ON, SON!!!
And while I do not condone wishing physical harm upon any player, I do wish that our division rivals make deadline trades that are complete FAIL and hurt the team not help it. So that being said, crossing my fingers Danny’s out for a while and LAAAAA have to throw out some junk instead of a Cy Young candidate :)
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Awesome. It was just this morning I woke up and thought, "I wonder how good ol' Wuertzy is doing?"
I'm here to talk about the past.
liar.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 27, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Great post, one question:
What’s the reason for Wuertz’s sliders all covering the middle of the plate? If this is the evening out of righty & lefty hitters, why aren’t fastballs this way?
Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks
That's not location, it's vertical and horizontal movement
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I don't usually do this, but...
TWSS.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
+1
BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?
by jlanning17 on Jul 27, 2010 2:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Got ya. That makes perfectly good sense once I take in the entire graph.
Can’t believe I asked that.
Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 27, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Nick's got it right.
That’s not location, but the amount of movement each pitch has. From the catcher’s point of view, all right-handed fastballs “rise” 10 or so inches and most usually have somewhere between 5 and 10 inches of horizontal movement to the left.
This confuses me
So from the catcher’s point of view, Wuertz’s slider rises a few inches and has little lateral movement? I thought sliders broke sharply downward.
I love my Oakland A's
by Philip Christy on Jul 27, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
He said "fastballs"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I was talking about the "sliders".
I love my Oakland A's
by Philip Christy on Jul 27, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, first of all, these movement numbers don't include gravity.
So what looks like a rise for the fastball is actually a drop, just less of a drop if it was spinless. Also, everybody is used to seeing the fastball and it’s flight pattern, so the slider looks like it drops sharply because it’s several inches lower than the fastball.
Thanks - I was just about to post the same thing
BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.
Okay...
This makes a little more sense.
I love my Oakland A's
by Philip Christy on Jul 27, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I really like this page that explains the PitchFX stuff quite well.
http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/Pitchfx
And, in particular, this, which shows where pitches usually reside on the movement chart, as thrown by a RHP:
oh, dannycakes, is there anything you don't have in graph form?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 27, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I expect a graph within 10 minutes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I bet he could graph that.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
danny, danny, where did our love go?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 27, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Obviously you're Diana Ross.
Chickie and DMOAS are The Supremes?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
So sliders generally have lateral movement to the right...
Wuertz’s, on average have little to no lateral movement. What makes them so effective?
by PDXAthleticsfan on Jul 27, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Not sure.
But Wuertz’s sliders are really kind of bizarre. From the catcher’s point of view, you’d expect a slider to break right, but Wuertz’s sliders just break straight down, if not a little to the left. They’re kinda like a splitter, actually.
Reminds me a bit of K-Rod's sliders, back when he was with the Angels.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I wonder if calling it a "slider" is a small part of why it's effective
I know teams have scouting reports, but still, as a hitter when you hear “watch for his slider” there’s probably some expectation there.
Based on this horrible thought, I recommend the A’s call everybody’s fastball a knuckleball.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
That'd hurt Cahill.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Well his arsenal is going to be renamed to spitball, eephus pitch, and shotput.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: the outcome of this series and player movement.
There’s no doubt that this series is crucial for the rest of the season, in that every game won is really like a +2 and every loss is a -2 in the – head-to-head matchup with your divisional rival that you’re looking up at – sort of way, but I don’t think a huge 3-0 sweep by the A’s or a sober 3-0 sweep by the Rangers will dictate player movement on Beane’s part.
With Sheets going down and the rotation being a bunch of kids again, I doubt Beane weakens the pen behind them and trades away Wuertz or Breslow, especially since they are pitching so well of late.
As for the position players…who would he able to trade for anything of value that he doesn’t want to actually trade?
I really think that the team performance before the trading deadline will have very little impact on the movement of players from/to this team. I think what we see today is what we’re going to see a week from now…perhaps Buck and Jackson come back to man the outfield corners for a few weeks, but that’s about all I see until September.
I think Beane was sincere when he mentioned to the media that he really wants to build some momentum going forward. I think the first way he’s going to do that is to let this team play out the string intact and maybe the second way will be to augment the team with a minor move, like adding another undervalued, vet bullpen arm or something.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
I agree.
The main reason we won’t be making any trades is that the “chip” to trade doesn’t exist. It was Sheets, if anyone, and that’s out. We’re looking at our 2010 team, whether it finishes the series 4.5 or 10.5 behind the Rangers.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For the record, Wuertz is definitely one guy I want around.
Unless we can trade him for a power hitting RF or a top 50 prospect. Keep him. Shit, even re-sign him if we can.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I thought it was only a 3 year deal?
Meaning next year would be the last one.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
This year. Next year. Optional 3rd year in 2012.
Cots is your friend and it should be in your bookmarks.
Pam liked my old sig better.
its also in the OP
and i am a total dumbass this morning.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
sooooo tempting :-P
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
give it a rest...
seriously.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
hey, ive never said im smart...
…but i am way past that immature “im 24 and know everything” phase. I actually know less and less about new things, but am wiser than many for having been aware of what was going on during what it took to get here. Counts for something, I think…
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
by PL78 on Jul 27, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know what I know. I know what I dont.
if you can actually point out something that I say that has holes do so. Otherwise you might want to abstain from saying that I know everything.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Um, I don't think he said that
Not here anyway.
by Glorious Mundy on Jul 27, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
This is clearly directed at me.
"im 24 and know everything" phase
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I knew everything when I was 24 :-P
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
no, im talking about myself
but thats a nice ego you have there…
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I thought it was a pretty clear swipe at me and you contending that I was being a dick
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he kinda didn't.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Really?
and i am a total dumbass this morning.
I mean, that just BEGS for some snarky sarcasm, does it not?
Pam liked my old sig better.
iglew doesn't approve of snark
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
No, it does not.
If someone acknowledges his own failings in a good-natured friendly way, that should NOT be viewed as an invitation to insult him further. That kind of attitude will only make people more stubborn and inflexible and make friendly debates even less friendly. Comments like PL’s “oops, I was a dumbass” should be encouraged here, not discouraged. To respond to them with, “Yeah, you sure were, but you’re pretty much always a dumbass” is a terrible idea.
(To be clear, I’m not saying DFA’s comment did that — his “:-P” and later “take it easy” tells me he was just being friendly.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
iglew
thanks for understanding. AN needs more good eggs like you.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
or you could just relax a bit with a little razzing
you made a super minor mistake that quite frankly no one really cares about
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we've all learned something from this,
but it’s run it’s course. A good time to just drop it would be some time between ASAP and right now.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I was just kidding dude, take it easy.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Good, because if Bailey's back doeasn't stop barking soon
he’s going to be our closer.
I really want this week to go well, but being Oakland, a sad little part of me thinks that:
1) We’ll get swept by Texas
2) Bailey will go on the DL (after not pitching in all three Texas games, rather than now, of course)
3) Anderson will last three innings against the Sox
4) A mystery player who has heretofore been healthy will get hurt (looking at Cust or Kouz)
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
My actual best guesses:
1) We lose two out of three but battle impressively
2) Bailey is fine
3) Anderson pitches great for the next month, then leaves a game in August/Sept and everyone screams “Why did they bring him back at all??”
4) Cust and Kouz stay healthy, but surprise, surprise, Crisp, Jackson, and Buck don’t.
Or maybe we sweep Texas, Bailey has TJ surgery, Anderson throws a no-hitter right-handed, and Cust has a sex-change operation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Jackie Cust is the type of girl you describe as being "really nice" with a "great personality."
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
This is true.
And “solidly built.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's a good thing the A's medical staff doesn't perform the surgeries.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
"Dang, this vertebrae is totally in the way...Let's just remove it...ok..."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Thanks, I feel sick now.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Thanks, I feel sick now.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Now I'm not sure
If you really want to give thanks or if you’re really sick.
So a question for those who like to figure out trade possibilities is:
If you’re the A’s, what do you demand in return for the Red Sox to get Wuertz?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Its really tough to gauge what Wuertz would bring out
trying as hard as I can to make a fair demand, I would personally ask for Jose Iglesias, Lars Anderson, and a lower level guy. That being said, I would rather just hold on to Wuertz unless we get an absolutely ridiculous offer for him
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Cameron, Beltre, all their pitchers.
They can have Davis in that deal, too.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Can the A's demand a bunch of players, plus a gag rule for Red Sox fans at the Coliseum?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
In fact, they can keep their players....
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
can we demand that they start patterson in center everynight for the life of Wuertz's contract?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Uh oh
From Jeff Fletcher:
Finally, my only A’s note of the day. Andrew Bailey has been out for a few days with back spasms, but a scout that I spoke to yesterday said he doesn’t believe that’s really what’s going on. He says he thinks Bailey has an arm problem, because back spasms wouldn’t normally sideline a guy for more than a day or two.
This guy also nailed Ben Sheets’ elbow injury, by the way. He called it just by watching him make his last start, despite Sheets’ denials that anything was wrong.
Yikes.
Well honestly
half of AN predicted Sheets’ injury during/after his last start
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Yeah, well I called it just by watching Sheets throw the first inning of his last start.
Not that hard to see.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Ben Sheets has known he's been hurt for a long time.
So calling anything off his last start only does not mean much.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I beg to differ on back spasms.
They can absolutely go on for days and then some. I mean, maybe he has an arm problem, I don’t know, but it’s hardly odd to think of back spasms sidelining a pitcher for a week.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Exactly, especially if the staff is being pretty precautionary
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 27, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
As some of my closer "AN friends" know,
my mom has been literally crippled with lower back spasms for exactly a month now, and let’s just say she’s not going to be painting the outside corner with cutters any time soon. The last thing you would want Bailey to do right now is pitch through it and possibly alter his motion to avoid back pain.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
was she able to throw a cutter before?
sign her up when she gets off the DL!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Or at least when she gets off the floor.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
considering the A's training staff
perhaps she should stay away.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
She actually fell on top of Larry Davis
Which is, at least, why she landed uninjured.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
woah wait you have friends here? who knew? :-P
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Dr. Scout went to the same med school as Dr. Crisp.
There are many major league players who have spent extended time on the DL cause of back spasms — quite a few recent A’s I might add.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
they are all hiding arm injuries!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Have to agree here.
It’s also possible to have them one day, be fine the next, then be down again after that.
Also, why wouldn’t the A’s just say “dead arm” or something if it was an arm thing? What does lying about the body part matter?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I just hope it's not the upper, upper back on his right side
AKA back of the shoulder. But yeah, back spasms are no joke. I hurt myself once standing up from a chair.
I hope this 'scout' also has a degree in physio therapy.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Ever had back spams? A day or two may not be enough time depending on severity
I first experienced back “spams” when I turned 30. I felt that the word “spasm” didn’t do it justice. I was fairly excruciating pain and it took about 3 days to subside, in my case, before I could function at about 80%. I’m no athlete but I’m relatively healthy and I would say that spasm scould put you out for up to a week if you were trying to be really careful.
All I wanted was a Pepsi
AN just got a shout out on mlbtraderumors.com
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I just saw that too
Tim has linked dan’s posts quite a few times!
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 27, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
dan's kind of a big deal.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
He has many leather-bound books, and his appartment smells of rich mahogany
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Yay
barring knockout offer, will not trade RHR Michael Wuertz. 2 more yrs of control after this one. Team trying to build continuity.
Ken Rosenthal
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
by Hit4TheCycle on Jul 27, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I find quotes like that totally meaningless.
Beane would never say “yeah, I’ll trade Wuertz, even if I don’t get a very good offer.”
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
He should try it.
Maybe some team will be defiant, and reply, “Oh yeah? Well then I’m making too GOOD of an offer, buddy!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
"Oh yeah? Well here's Justin Upton AND Mark Reynolds! Turn down that one Mr 'Smartest Guy in the Room'!"
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
And nor should he
I don’t really believe in untouchables. There’s always some ridiculous offer that would make me go “okay, sold.” Even Pujols and Mauer can be traded if the deal is right (though any deal that’s “right” would undoubtedly be so insane it would be rejected by the commissioner’s office).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
To me, "untouchable" implies
“Unless, obviously, someone makes an offer no one would refuse.” I don’t think the idea is that there are players you wouldn’t deal for Longoria, Price, and Zobrist, just players you should be keeping even if a “good deal” is offered.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They all play for the Rays!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 27, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think he'll make another 2 years.
I hope so but I see a lot of Kiko Calero in him. Guys who rely on the slider as much as they do are asking for injury; couple that with the workload and the fact that he plays for the A’s and there are serious risks.
two girls at one time?
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm pretty down on the whole varna system, to be honest with you
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
That's because he's not GMing the Dbacks
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I'm so happy the A's and Angels are tied for second place
If Carter/Taylor can get it going, along with a healthy Anderson, look out Rangers!
Much better run-differential, too.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Rotoworld should really read Dan's front page posts
they might learn something.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I was thinking the same thing
Or at least look at more than just the overall stats, which are influenced by the slow start upon returning.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Rotoworld should really read Dan's front page posts
they might learn something.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
WTC AN!
what’s with the preview function causing double posts :-( they are making me look bad, or at least worse than I already do.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
That's my excuse too.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Nah, you guys are just morans.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nah, you guys are just morans.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What the cluck?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
what the crap
not the AN person, the phrase.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Though I've noticed that frequently when
what_the_crap posts a fanpost, my reaction is, “What the crap!?”
Rockies apparently willing to trade Brad Hawpe
Perhaps a nice buy low opportunity there
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
A corpse being his upside, then?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and he isn't even that great of a hitter playing half his games at Coors Field.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Well he has a career
841 OPS away from Coors, which would make him our best hitting OF
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
you and your proof
perhaps injuries have de-railed his 2010 line but injuries and bad defense don’t sound appealing to me. Although he is better than Connor Jackson, perhaps a buy low option wouldn’t be half bad.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
With a bigger arm.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Hell no
That guy would be Jake Fox in the Coli
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting that just a few weeks ago, pretty much everyone wanted to get rid of Wuertz.
And quite a few people thought his extension was a huge mistake — along with not selling high on him last July/offseason.
Sorry Dan, I’m not sure the data you collected from 8 IP in July means much of anything right now. Considering Wuertz’s injury history and dependence on one volatile pitch, I would absolutely look to deal him — especially if another team is also overvaluing Wuertz’s recent July SSS.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I'm not arguing that we should keep him.
Just that he’s fully back from his injury. What we do with that knowledge is something else.
That being said, I’d like to keep him, unless a team really blows us away with an offer.
Right, and I'm arguing that we have far too little information to conclude whether or not he's back, or he's fine.
This is an analysis better served for the end of the season.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure that sample size is really relevant here.
It’s not like a hitter where a good one only gets a hit 3/10ths of the time, so you need a large sample to really get a handle on his batting average. Wuertz’s velocity is either there, or it isn’t. It’s not really something that should wobble around.
There's this, too. Same goes for the movement.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Check out every A's relief pitcher's velocity charts this season.
Every single one of them has experienced significant velocity fluctuations with each outing. Heck, Andrew Bailey pretty much only throws two fastballs and even his velocity charts are all over the place. Why? Because it’s a small sample of innings and pitches. Wuertz having 8 innings pitched of better velocity could be him getting his velocity back and getting back to the pitcher he was for good…or it could be him just stumbling upon a string of good outings (velocity wise). I’m saying there’s no way of knowing yet. You still haven’t conclusively proved to me that it’s because he’s getting back to the pitcher he was for good.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, one thing is that PitchFX's classifications aren't perfect.
It’s easy to manually classify Wuertz’s pitches (because they’re so different, and he only throws two), but even PitchFX has a hard time with his slider, calling it a changeup half of the time. Fangraphs uses PitchFX’s classifications for their velocity charts, and I’d wager that most of those low-speed fluctuations in fastball velocity in Bailey’s chart are actually cutters.
just a thought
each home fields radar gun can be calibrated differently giving different data points for the same event. Once the sample size gets bigger looking only at data from the coli might show more correct data than combining the data from every stadiums radar gun.
Every day is just a little worse than the previous, that means every day is the worst day of my life.
by shooting4life on Jul 27, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I would hope that the PitchFX data has somehow removed the radar gun noise that exists
But I’m not sure if that’s actually true.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't use radar guns.
It uses three high-speed cameras. Certainly, there’s still room for miscalibration or other errors, but they’re usually far more accurate than radar guns.
I'm not sure this is a typical SSS situation
There’s a clear reason for why his May was bad, and now he’s back to doing what he did when he was good. I find it hard to believe that if the injury really did serious damage or if the past few years before were a fluke, he’d be good even in a small sample in July.
Of course he could get hurt again, but I see no reason to believe that this isn’t the real Wuertz and that the guy we saw earlier this year was one who wasn’t 100%.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
...you didn't really explain why this isn't a typical SSS situation.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Because he's doing exactly what he has done previously as he's gets further away from the injury
Good for a while, injured, bad for a minute, good again… I dunno, the “good again” part isn’t the part I’d be suspicious of there.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
He was bad for 14 innings. Now he's good for 8 innings. 8 innings!
Joe Saunders’s changeup looked like the best changeup in the world in 18 innings against the A’s this year. What does that mean?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
But it's WHY he was bad that changed.
It’s not just that he’s gotten a bunch of lucky breaks or something. His velocity and movement has returned to when he was good (before 2010). There’s not really a reason why that would come back and then just disappear again unless he reinjures himself.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a legit worry, though
since the slider is both his most effective pitch, and the one that injures his elbow.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Definitely. But I think it's also fair to think that his July is representative of his true talent
And isn’t a SSS fluke.
Perhaps “he should be this good unless/until he gets hurt again” is how I feel about Wuertz.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure it's fair to THINK it.
Concluding it….another story.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
or rather, the reasoning wasn't very convincing...
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Trade him now
Kalish come on down!
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
SSS maybe
But he’s clearly trending up in velocity and down in SD of velocity. His control getting better is probably just a function of being back where he wants to be velocity wise.
Also, his subjective results are good. It’s VERY clear watching the games that he’s better than he was about a month ago.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 27, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
How do you know this is a meaningful trend that'll continue?
Sure he looks better in his eight innings in July. But this is the equivalent of judging a .250 batter who hits .330 for a week and saying he’s definitely a .330 hitter.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 27, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's a Hypothetical: Wuertz or Bailey?
Say it’s the bottom of the 9th at Texas and Texas has the bases loaded with no outs in a tied game or alternatively bottom 9th and the A’s lead by 1 run and you have the choice of a healthy Wuertz and Andrew Bailey, who do you go to.
I myself would go to Wuertz because IMO he would be the one most likely to get strikeouts.
I also think Andrew Bailey while having a low ERA is not quite as sharp this year and is allowing more hard hit balls. The stat people would know more about this as I am sure they have data on this matter.
Of course it would also depend who was due up for Texas but say for this hypothetical it was Kinsler/Vlad and Hamilton.
Just curious as to what you guys would do.
Yeah
I heard someone like KK or VC say that he says his K’s are down because they are not waiting for the cutter when behind in the count.
I don’t think he’s near as sharp as he was last year.
depends on which pitcher started the inning
were the A’s leading by 5 and then Blevins/Bowers/Rodriguez gave up 4 runs in the 9th?
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Let's just say then that The A's were up by the one run
and that Ziggy came in and could not get Borbon, Andrus and Young out and that he gave up a single, a walk and a HBP. So you need to strikeout at least the first two hitters
then I would say Bob Geren was a moron for not using Bailey or Weurtz
but seriously, If this happened tonight I would say bring in Weurtz since Bailey will be rusty.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
We know Geren is a moron
It’s not so much how it go to bases loaded an no outs but how to get out of it.
good Weurtz would be my choice with no outs (not "May" Weurtz)
if we needed one out, I would say either one would be fine.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
We're losing the game no matter who we put in there.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Goddamnit
Why isnt Bailey on the DL if he’s not going to pitch for 2 weeks?
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Because he might be able to pitch one or two days before the minimum time required on the DL!
Or something equally stupid on the part of the A’s.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
makes me think of Mazzaro getting poked in the eye last year.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
That's ridiculous. What a way to hurt yourself.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Great post Dan(as always)
Its great to MW returning to form. OT but whats up with the weird/freak injuries? Morales and now Coghlan tore his knee delivering a pie to Helms’ face. Really?!?!
WTF GEREN?!?!?!
I wish that athletics nation mobile would automatically add comments when they appear
so I wouldnt type what other people typed before
WTF GEREN?!?!?!
It’s the year of the pitcher and freak injuries.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 27, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Just curious
Am I reading the graphs wrong or does it say that Wuertz’s average July velocity is ~86 where as last year in his worst month it was ~88? In any case, I think Wuertz is a nice piece on a great team but an unimportant piece on an OK team. There’s too many holes on the team to worry about a premier set up man. Especially one with an injury risk who is slowly getting up there in age. If the A’s think they’ll be really good next year, I could see keeping Wuertz and eating the cost when he’s injured and/or sucks for the hope that he performs as he did in 2009.
But I see 2011 as merely another 2010-type season where the A’s will truly contend only if they catch a few lucky breaks. I’d trade Wuertz for one good prospect if someone offered.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
There's nothing about last year in those graphs (although, in hindsight, it probably would have been a good idea).
Those graphs are just from 2010, not his whole career.
Could we afford them?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I think I was just looking for a way to say.....eff you Red Sux!!
I don’t see that the A’s need to be sellers here, especially with wuertz. We are technically a contender, and in a better position in our division than the Red Sox. We aren’t in 3rd place, Ahem. They can give up @ss if they want some of our pieces.
All I wanted was a Pepsi
Ha ha! If we could then I would say that would be a secondary concern
If you could actually figure out a way to make that trade happen, you pull the trigger and figure out the money next year. Chavvy off the books, so I think we could. Theo would be out of his mind to do this.
All I wanted was a Pepsi
Thanks as always for the great posts, Dan.
I’m looking forward to this series with Texas and seeing what kind of team the A’s are….seeing what they’re made of. Can they tame the Beasts Of Arlington? Can the A’s pitching continue to be this good? Will they be able to put enough runs on the board to support that pitching? Will Andrew Bailey rise from the dead? Will the A’s emerge form this series better than 6-1/2 games out of first? 2 out of three gets you there…but a sweep leaves you only 4-1/2 out unless it goes the other way in which case never mind….
Go A’s and let’s kick some Ranger Ass!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
To answer your questions starting with the Beasts of Arlington
Probably.
Yes.
Doubtful.
Doubtful.
Yes.
Pam liked my old sig better.
I like your optimism, friend!
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Rajai being back in the lineup is a good thing
With Lee only having given up 7 walks the entire year, looks like the A’s are gonna have to look to be aggressive early and hope they can luck into some hits and steal a few bags. I just hope Gio doesn’t implode on the mound tonight and keeps our boys in the game.
Alrighty then, it’s off to work for this lad and pouring fine beers for the masses…….Go A’s!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
WALK. HAMILTON. AS. OFTEN. AS. POSSIBLE.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Versus Lee
Crisp cf, Barton 1b, Suzuki c, Kouzmanoff 3b, Cust dh, Rosales ss, Ellis 2b, Davis lf, Carson rf
Cust 5th?
GEREN. FIRE.
(Im bored of the regular way I write that. and yes, I will continue to write it until our best hitter by miles is hitting 3RD like he should be)
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Hitting him 5th against a lefty seems reasonable
Also, everything I’ve read shows that as far as lineup construction matters, the best hitter should not be third.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
My recollection is
it goes 1, 2/4, 3/5, 6, 7, 8, 9. With 2 and 4 roughly equal, and 3 and 5 roughly equal.
But also, it doesn’t make that much difference at all, so yeah.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Cust's career #s vs Cliff Lee
2 for 9 with 1 BB. His 2 hits are a 2B and an HR.
The slash is 222/300/667
The really amazing part of that is that Cust has a BB against Lee.
Pretty much nobody has ever done that.
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Nick Cafardo- Boston Globe is an idiot
He believes Boston will sweep in and fleece Beane on the Wuertz deal because of the 4.50 ERA. Christ…what an asshole.
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 27, 2010 2:00 PM PDT reply actions
from the SuSlu
susanslusser
Bailey threw just now, it went well but he must consult with the coaching staff before it’s official that he’s available tonight.
#Athletics
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Not me.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
well aren’t you smart
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
You're like a married couple.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
susanslusser
No Bailey tonight Geren says. #Athletics
half a minute ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 27, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Hope it's not a close game...
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Yeah but I'm scared.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
so comforting
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
JaneMLB
Anderson said he’s ready to go Friday, shouldn’t be limited in any way. #Athletics
1 minute ago via txt
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 27, 2010 2:26 PM PDT reply actions
Watch out pitchers
Don Mattingly will manage the Phoenix Arizona Fall League team, which includes top #Athletics prospects.
cousin Don!
5th cousin or something, but still…
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 27, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Might be some very un-interesting A's prospects in the AFL this year
… besides Grant Green. Last year, Desme, Brown, and Weeks were interesting prospects to watch.
by Colorado Fan on Jul 27, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Bobby Geren Jr too?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Krol and Stassi can't both be sent
each team gets 1 player below AA
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd send Stassi over Krol - I don't like sending pitchers to leagues we have no control over.
I’d possibly send Dixon before both of them though.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Id send none of them
I want control over Krol. Stassi has K issues and Dixon is a toolshed mess. They all should be in instructionals.
I however am going to be going.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Ridiculous.
I mean it’s not even funny anymore.
- WARNING. HINDSIGHT POLICE COMING *
Who the hell thought it was a good idea to give up a good relief prospect for a guy who had been SICK FOR AN ENTIRE FREAKING YEAR and then had leg problems on top of that?
Pam liked my old sig better.
Because it's just a relief prospect?
Even a below average outfielder would be worth a lot more than an above average reliever. You’ve got to be basically an ace out of the pen to be worth much at all (see: Wuertz). And Jackson has huge upside. It’s a classic buy low.
No, it's a classic "buy a guy who's been hurt for over 12 months"
When he’s not much better than what we’ve got now.
Pam liked my old sig better.
If he's healthy he's WAAAAY better than what we've got now in the OF.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
trade him for Brad Hawpe!
defense by damned.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Jeez, Huston Street taken off in an ambluance
Got hit by a line drive during BP. The Rockie trainer said he passed out 2-3 times due to the pain.
Bring back Hammer.
Sounds like he was hit in the midsection or pelvis.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jul 27, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Bad few days for ex-A's
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Details
Nationals general manager Mike Rizzo said Strasburg had problems getting his arm loose during his warmups in the bullpen. The phenom is listed as day-to-day. He will have an MRI soon.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I normally don't care about other team's injurys
but that sucks.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I blame you for tonights loss, dan
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
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