To Braden, A's, It May As Well Have Been A Perfect Game
by Nico on Jul 25, 2010 4:31 PM PDT
486 comments
Oh there were baserunners, leads chipped away to precious little, but to Dallas Braden -- winning for the first time since his May 9th perfect game -- and to the A's, now two games over .500 and winning series against contenders, it was perfect enough.
The key hits were back-to-back two out, two-run singles in the 2nd by Daric Barton and Kurt Suzuki, the latter of whom added an RBI hit to drive in three for the day. Meanwhile, Braden was outstanding, pitching into the 7th with all his pitches working and shutting down the White Sox after they nicked him for a 1st inning run.
The not-so-perfect part? With the A's leading 6-1 in the 7th, two on and one out, and Gordon Beckham due up, I thought Bob Geren managed the bullpen pretty badly. He brought in Brad Ziegler for just one hitter, then yanked him for Jerry Blevins with the left-hand hitting Juan Pierre coming up. Following Pierre were Alexi Ramirez, then Rios, Konerko, Quentin. That's the group for whom you save Ziegler, rather than using him for one hitter and then being stuck with Blevins in the game facing powerful RH batters.
I would have either liked to see Braden face one more hitter (Beckham) or seen Ziggy stay in for the long haul. Luckily, it worked out well enough as the White Sox settled for 3 runs and Konerko -- representing the go-ahead run -- was retired by Craig Breslow, and Michael Wuertz pitched a 1-2-3 9th.
Another thought: Man oh man I wish the A's had gotten in on the Danny Haren trade. The Angels just acquired a really, really good pitcher who is under contract for multiple seasons (through 2012 with a club option for 2013), and they did it by parting with Joe Saunders and a couple minor league pitchers -- one of whom, Pat Corbin, looks like a good prospect, but that's hardly a king's ransom to give up for someone of Haren's quality and contract status. The A's couldn't do one better and lock up a front-of-the-rotation guy to augment the young talent for the next few years? Bummer.
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Definitely poor use of the 'pen with the people coming up after Pierre
No need to use Ziegler as a one-hitter pitcher in the situation they had, though I’d have probably been warming someone else up there to begin with since he went 2 innings yesterday.
Jeremy (Rotoworld fail) Blevins definitely had his problems today.
At least, as Braden said, the Oakland Zoo can stop calling because the monkey is on its way home, off his back.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Blevins' problem, it looks to me, is that
he is in a pattern. His first 2-strike pitch to a lefty is always the big sweeping curve and hitters are sitting on it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's on Suzuki.
Not surprising, considering how bad he is at pitch-calling.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
First I've heard this criticism
Not to say it isn’t valid—having a two year old makes you live under a rock for extended periods of time. Upon what do you base this? Very important to consider given we’ve just made a lengthy commitment to him.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 25, 2010 5:55 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I[ve observed this for a while
I can’t count the timeat people have blamed various A’s pitchers for throwing the wrong pitch when it was Suzuki’s call. For example the criticism of Sheets and Braden not throwing the variety of pitches they are capable of. Powell seems to call a better game with more use of the less common pitches.
by A's Believer on Jul 25, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Powell behind the plate. Apparently Geren doesn't.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I like Suzuki beside the plate.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Powell behind the late and Suzuki at bat
But ya can’t always get what ya want.
by A's Believer on Jul 25, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it looks that way for every catcher
They call SO many pitches, and pitch calling is so subjective, that inevitably there will be frequent moments where you go, “ZOMG I can’t believe they called that pitch!!!” Sometimes it’s fair criticism, but often it really isn’t.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For example, did Suzuki call for Cahill to groove one to ARod with the bases loaded?
It’s possible, but I kinda doubt it.
I know, it’s just one play, but it’s often hard to know what’s on the catcher, what’s on the pitcher, and what’s on the dugout (if they ever call pitches).
www.zekeishungry.com
Not so much the dugout, per se,
but the pre-game meetings where they go over hitters and make a plan. That comes into play a lot, I’m sure.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
of course not.
the call was fine. trevor’s sinker is nasty enough that put in the right spot it would have worked. but he left it up in the zone to arguably the best home run hitter in baseball. thats zook’s fault? who knows what happens if the umps arent retarded and the REAL count is at 2-2.
Predictability is his biggest issue.
He is the most fastball happy catcher I’ve ever seen (on the A’s, since Ramon) when the A’s staff has plenty of pitchers with quality breaking stuff. There are certain sequences he likes to stick with with certain pitchers (aforementioned Blevins curve in 2 strike situations) regardless of game or situation or how long the sequence has been employed. Of course that’s probably the game plan and it’s good for young pitchers to have a preplanned, clear idea of what they’re going to throw and when. But again, it doesn’t make it any less predictable for opposing hitters (and advance scouts).
Of course, all of the above is entirely subjective, unscientific, prone to confirmation bias and a host of other biases, and quite possibly, completely erroneous. If anyone wants to refute or disagree with anything I said above, I won’t offer a counterargument in return since there’s not much of a debate to be made either way on this subject. It does amuse me that my throwaway line caused such a vociferous response though since, like I said in another comment, I personally don’t think Suzuki’s pitch calling, while IMO bad, matters much in the grand scheme of things.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 26, 2010 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably prompted so much response precisely because it's hard to know
I really don’t have any idea personally, but I’ll be paying attention to it now—should be interesting to watch.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I think it prompted the response mainly because for the most part, the pitchers have been pretty good overall...
…instead of crappy. A lot of that is them executing the pitches, but it’s also about the game that’s called. It’s easy to look at certain cases that don’t work out as evidence, but I think he’s done fine. It’s important to avoid too many patterns though, I’d agree with that.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
PLUS ONE
I have been saying this for so long, Suzuki is a terrible terrible awful game-caller.
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
If Blevin sees a call that he doesn't like it's his responsibility to shake it off
Blevins may have been taken off guard by getting called in while Ziggy was handling the situation. Everything I’ve heard before about Suzuki has been he is a very good game caller.
Yeah, I think AN often underrates how many little things
Suzuki does well that are actually big things — working with and leading the young pitchers, blocking balls, etc., and I’m sure he works hard at calling a good game. Everything I’ve heard is that he’s a tireless worker and as bright as he is and as in synch as he is with the pitchers, I find it hard to believe that he can’t call a good game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I have to agree.
This is garbage, plain and simple. I have yet to hear of an A’s pitcher complaining about Suzuki behind the plate.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I have yet to hear ANY pitcher complaining about ANY Catcher behind the plate. You just don’t do it unless you are an a-hole.
by Colorado Fan on Jul 25, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
They do.
Randy Johnson couldn’t stand Posada. You will hear about it, although indirectly.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
So he's an a-hole?
Also Maddux insisted on Eddie Perez. I’m not sure whether Welch insisted on Hassey, but he sure got him a lot.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
RJ may have been an ass,
but he was a also a front line pitcher. Guys will call a catcher out if he’s hurting their stats. I have yet to hear one scintilla of evidence of this from A’s pitchers. Kurt is praised high and low as far as I can tell. This is crap, plain and simple.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
And for whatever it's worth
(and I don’t place much stock in “catcher’s ERA”), the A’s pitchers have better results as a whole with Suzuki behind the plate than with Powell.
Damien Miller is another example, BTW, of a catcher pitchers didn’t really like throwing to. It comes out eventually.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The A's are 2nd in the league in ERA, right?
ERA isn’t the be-all and end-all, but still, it’s a little hard to say, “The A’s have the 2nd-best staff ERA (despite very significant injuries to key pitchers) but the guy who does the overwhelming majority of the catching is terrible at calling the game.”
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I don't think pitch calling matters much in the grand scheme of things, but that doesn't preclude Suzuki from being bad at it.
The quality of the pitchers, the quality of the pitches they have, and the execution of such trumps all. Since the A’s have quality pitchers who have many quality pitches, I don’t think Suzuki’s bad pitch calling matter much at all, but like I said, that doesn’t mean he isn’t bad at it.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 26, 2010 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Welch did in fact insist upon Hassey.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 26, 2010 3:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I may be remembering wrong
But I think a couple years ago the A’s had Damian Miller catching and it kind of became known after he left that none of the pitchers liked the way he called a game.
Yes.
I think it’s pretty laughable/sad that there’s sentiment to trade Suzuki and Barton, who are pretty much the ones you want to keep because, you know, they’re actually good as well as young and affordable.
It would be, in my ever so humble opinion, monumentally stupid to trade those two. They are emerging as young leaders on a very young team, and as an added bonus they are players who can actually lead by example because they’re actually good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For sure,
Zook in particular because catchers have such a big impact. Suzuki is a rising star in the game and continues to learn .
The rest of the AL certainly seems to hold that belief
Other teams rave about him and I get the sense he’s considered, around the league, to be a “top 3” catcher in the AL. He has even HRed at home, unlike that scrub Joe Mauer.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It is strange to read posts advocating trading him....
when he’s just what we need at that position.
Continues to dominate...
would be a better choice of words.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
I'm sure Blevins was told the plan was one batter for Ziggy
Aside from that, I really doubt there’s a problem with Suzuki’s pitch calling. As a whole the pitching staff has been solid not just this season but prior with him behind the plate. Most of the time you hear the pitchers don’t even shake him off because they’re all on the same page so well.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Starting with Tom Seaver
In many accounts on pitching I’ve read by great pitchers, they’ve all said exactly this—if you don’t like what the catcher is calling, it’s on you to throw something else.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Well Ziegler did go 2 innings yesterday
So I’m guessing he wasn’t available for more than a couple pitches. Probably shouldn’t have used him at all but with Wuertz doing closer duty for Bailey there aren’t a lot of good right handed options in the pen. I guess you could let Breslow or Blevins pitch to Beckham though.
That or just let Braden go one more hitter before going to Blevins.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ehh, Braden is still coming back from injury and was looking pretty gassed
There are lot of things that could have been done but I don’t see that any of them are clearly better than using Zig on the righty and letting Blevins finish of the lefty. No need to over-analyze every tiny decision. Blevins couldn’t get the job done but the bullpen eventually came through. I guess we’ve just reached the tipping point for Geren here where every game becomes a where’s waldo like search to find the managing error.
No, I just think it was very poorly managed
I think he was banking on each pitcher getting one out and when that didn’t happen he was stuck like a deer in the headlights with only terrible matchups of “lefty vs. power hitting righty.”
If Braden was gassed, he should have brought Blevins in to face Beckham, regardless of lefty-righty, and then Pierre, so as to have Ziggy available as needed for the righty-only 2-3-4-5.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Does Curt Young ever
criticize Geren’s moves? Young’s a smart guy; his head must explode every time Geren makes moves like today.
Out loud? No.
In his head, quite possibly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
back from the game
Bobo tried to lose it in the 7th, but the A’s would not comply, thankfully.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 25, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey en, I don't know if you saw my quip the other day about Cahill's walkup music
but I trust that you will appreciate my suggestion: the A’s young starting rotation should be called The Great Society.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
oh that is awesome
takes me 3/5 of a mile in 10 seconds, it does
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 25, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll buy that T-shirt.
Some kind of gritty old-timey black-and-white picture with LBJ photoshopped into an image of Cahill, Anderson, Gio, Vinny, and Braden.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
However, it gets done, it needs to happen.
It’s so literate and educated! Someone call the A’s marketing department.
What do we call the outfield, The Monroe Doctrine?
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
With Carter or Taylor up
maybe they could be Big Brother and the Holding Company.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
The Replacements?
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
And they're cool, so we can call them
“The hip replacements!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ziggactly!
BTW, I’d never listened to the Great Society’s version of White Rabbit before (though I’ve been familiar with their “Somebody To Love” for years, and I think it’s better than the Airplane’s version), but…wow, that is a whole lotta psychedelic noodling, right there!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
best JA tune
“”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lscRNsyEzs4" target="new">rejoyce" on After Bathing at Baxter’s
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 25, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
whoops
here it is, rejoyce
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 25, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow -- trippy
I think I’m a little fonder of somewhat goofier psychedelia than that, though. So, they did Lewis Carroll and James Joyce. Did they do any songs based on Robert Burns or Dylan Thomas?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Not that I recall...
But Kantner was a science fiction fan and some allusions to that can be found on his solo album, Blows Against the Empire, which actually sounds like a Jefferson Airplane album, only with Jerry Garcia on guitar on a couple of tracks.
And for a second there, I was hoping he would do the right things.
On an unrelated note, I was sitting in 209. That was a cool ovation that Braden got, and the “2-0-9” chant from our section was nice too.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
My original point was that Ziggy wouldn't have been available for the 2-3-4-5 regardless
He wasn’t limited to one batter because a lefty was on deck, he was limited to one batter because he had thrown a lot of pitches yesterday. I guess he could have had Wolf or Rodriguez warming up to face those guys but I don’t think I would have preferred them to Blevins or Breslow.
I doubt he was only available for one hitter
Putting him in to face Ramirez gives you flexibility if you still need him to pitch to Rios. If he can’t pitch to all 4, he can still pitch to a couple and when those guys come up that’s when you need him — to face guys when the game might be closer and to face guys who could take you deep.
You wound up with Blevins vs. Rios as the tying run and Breslow vs. Konerko as the go-ahead run, and that didn’t need to happen.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
with a 4 run lead a ton of righties due up, should stick with Ziegler
oh well, we won. plus the bullpen was handled differently because Bailey wasn’t available.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Why? He sucks.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
So does Bowers. So does Rodriguez. And Bailey wasn't available so others had to be saved for later.
It was a 6-1 game at the time. You can take the chance someone like Wolf can get an out or two there.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
good point
we keep using good relievers in blow outs and poor ones in closer games like Friday.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Sucks about the Haren trade
I’m going to really hate seeing him in those obnoxious red uniforms. That being said, I hope he goes down in flames with the rest of them now.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Dan Haren trade does not bother me one bit
He’s not been that good this year. Gives up too many long balls and Texas and A’s are 53 for 163 with 9 bombs off him. He’s nowhere near a Cliff Lee and not near a Brett Anderson.
I do not see a problem at all in him losing at slegnAville
I fear you're underrating Haren
He’s given up a ton of HRs this year, but he’s a heck of a pitcher.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He's a good pitcher
But I still think the slegnA fall short. Too many holes left in their pitching
I hope you're right
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not that worried
Haren’s having a cruddy year; Saunders is having a cruddy year.
In the long run, Haren’s a much better pitcher, but this year they’re pretty much on an equal footing. It’s like the folks clamoring for Oswalt. A guy having a poor season is a guy having a poor season. It’s possible Haren will turn it around, but it’s also possible Saunders would’ve turned it around as well.
I'm not focused on this year
Haren is under contract for the next 3 years and that makes the Angels’ long-term rotation a lot better.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think you should look at their stat lines again
Saunders: BB/9 = 3.4 K/9 = 4.8
Haren: BB/9 = 1.9 K/9 = 9.0
That’s a pretty huge difference. Haren has a higher HR rate, but Saunders isn’t exactly impossible to HR against, either.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Haren's xFIP is at 3.38 this year.
The Angels just turned Joe Saunders into Dan Haren. We should all be very worried.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Haren is way better than Saunders
but xFIP probably isn’t the best stat to use for him because it normalizes for homerun rate and Haren has pretty conclusively demonstrated that he gives up more homeruns than the average pitcher. It’s really his one weakness so when you use xFIP it’s basically just a quick way of ignoring his faults.
What Haren does well is give up a lot of SOLO HRs.
He trades a few HRs for BBs, getting ahead in the count, etc., but that doesn’t mean he’s going to give up a bunch of 3-run bombs. At least not when he’s on.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
We're thinking about this all wrong.
The D-backs don’t think Saunders is as good as Haren. They think Haren is as bad as Saunders.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless he's hiding some kind of injury (and hiding it very well) that's just a crazy thing to think.
It’s like thinking that Kevin Kouzmanoff is as good as David Wright.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I'd kill for David Wright.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I agree, he'd be fantastic
and his K numbers are high enough that it’s just possible that he’s undervalued.
Every time I think about which team is set up to be fleeced, I think of the Mets.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Whom would you kill?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
This bug crawling across my floor.
[SMACK!]
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I can't discuss that on a public forum.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Fair point.
But the reason I used it was because he’s also conclusively demonstrated that his xFIP has pretty much been in line with his career FIP and ERA (3.61 xFIP 3.69 FIP 3.71 ERA). This year is the only year where there’s been a big discrepancy between his FIP and xFIP (3.38 xFIP 3.91 FIP)
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Trying to be optimistic
You’re not helping.
I helped over on the other thread
Let’s hope the PTBNL is Mike Trout.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
At least it's a decent prospect
But what would it have taken for the A’s to “match and then one” that deal?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Braden, Mortenson, [crappy reliever], Krol
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep in mind that the Arizona front office overvalued Saunders, apparently.
They think that Saunders is good. We’d have to kick in somebody else they think is good. It’d be more than a Braden-equivalent.
Yeah, and at that point, I think the deal starts to taste a little sour for us.
If we’re trading them Anderson or Cahill for Haren, I’m not sure we’re making the right choice.
Maybe we could have fooled them into taking Sheets.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
But Saunders isn't remotely as valuable as either Anderson or Cahill
and I can’t believe that even the dumbest GM in baseball would think he is.
Maybe I just give people too much credit. Can you imagine rooting for a team whose GM thought that Saunders was as valuable as either of those guys? Ugh.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
We got more for Joe Blanton than they did for Dan Haren!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Yeah but Blanton has a World Series ring.
Is what Joe Morgan would say.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yes, Haren was good in the World Series but he couldn't
raise his teammates game the way Blanton did
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
You know who could've raised his teammates?
Jamie Moyer.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Yeah, but it's a salary dump
And the D-Backs got a couple of good prospects in addition to Saunders. So look at it this way: The D-Backs save a ton of cash down the road, they pick up a suitable replacement for the next couple of years, plus get two prospects they really like.
The stupid thing, though, is that the D-Backs sold low. Any smart GM, with a player of Haren’s caliber and three years’ control, would’ve waited until next season, and then during a bounce-back year, made a killing.
Why are they dumping the salary of a young, stud,
pitcher on a team friendly contract?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I think what Dan is suggesting
is that the D-Backs thought Saunders was maybe almost as good as Haren.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe not but the D'backs seem to think Saunders is serviceable
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
How do you they won't think Braden is better than Saunders?
Braden’s better by every conceivable metric and he’s much cheaper than Saunders (who’s on his second year of arby eligibility, due for about 6 million). Unless they think Saunders is better because of his zomg, wins.
In which case, sub Mazz for Braden. Still a major win for the A’s.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
How do you figure*
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course he's better.
But so is Haren.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
It's the only way this deal makes sense.
If Arizona figured that Saunders is, say, 75% as good as Haren, then the other guys they got make up for the remaining 25%. Yeah, Braden is clearly better in actuality, but it doesn’t really matter what is actually true. What actually matters is what Arizona thinks.
We need to get more shitty players that other teams think are good.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Freddy Sanchez FTW!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
We need to get a Coors Field then.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
The A's need to start playing on Little League fields and convince everyone else they're regulation
Maybe the fewer fans will also make them look sold out.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Aren't there a couple of newer ballparks that don't follow outfield distance regulations?
Can’t think of which ones they are, but I swear I recently heard that.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
San Francisco's doesn't to right, but they got a special exemption for it
I know they built the RF wall in Pittsburgh 21 feet because of Clemente’s number, but that’s different.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
What's wrong with AT&T park's right field?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
We're the opposite.
We have a bunch of guys who are average-to-decent, and nobody has ever heard of them.
I'm getting that way with the rest of the league at the moment.
Guys I’ve never heard of are putting up good numbers. Must be what people think about our pitching staff.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
The Angels get Haren. The Rangers get Lee. The M's get Smoak.
We get Conor Jackson.
What the fuck.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
No, no, no, it's not like that at all.
Conor Jackson’s totally injured.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Rangers gave up their future 1B for half a season of Lee.
So the Mariners did well there.
The Angels hoodwinked the D’Backs too somehow.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yeah, the Lee trade was rational on both sides
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I'm undecided.
Lee’s not staying in Texas after this season, so he’s basically got to put them over the top this year (and they’re already winning the division without him) or else it was pointless.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
It's the right year for them to "go for it"
at the expense of a little future.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
A lot of future. Smoak's going to be a hell of a hitter.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yes, but Lee will bring back two draft picks.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Particularly for the owner,
since the future won’t be his anyway.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Even if they would get to the playoffs either way
Lee would start in the playoffs, too.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
The M's and Angels made off like bandits in their sequence of trades.
I don’t think the Rangers are hurt long term by what they gave up for Lee. Smoak is very good but he’s also a first baseman and he came from an area of strength (the Rangers offense can survive without him). Plus, their farm system is pretty much a blue chip factory.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Heck, Sam Demel for Conor Jackson is looking like the worst trade out of all four of these trades
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Demel's a bull pen arm. Jackson is a good bat.
It was worth the risk.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I don't know -- I can see another way
the deal makes sense. Both Corbin and Skaggs are having very good seasons, they’re very young and if everything rolls right it COULD turn out to be a great deal for the D-Backs.
But if you go on that theory, the D-Backs had better have done their HW and really knew how good those two can be. Because 19 year olds flame out all the time.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
But I mention this above...
With three years’ control of Haren, the D-Backs sold low. The guy is not having a good season, and this is probably the best deal they were able to wrangle. They could have and should have waited. There was no reason whatsoever to make this trade.
Sure there was --
His value is higher when he’s under contract for another portion of a season, and his value is higher at the trade deadline when several teams realize their hopes are significantly enhanced by adding a SP and are really iffy without one.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The DBacks supposedly had multiple teams making them offers for Haren.
They couldn’t turn that into a bidding war like Zduriencik did with Lee? The best offer they got was Joe Saunders?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
The more I think about this, the more I feel like a complaint should be filed about this trade.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
fantasy league has one year windows
so for that, yes, bad.
for multi-year bit, no so blatent.
maybe
I think the point is that they didn't
get Saunders — he might have been the throw-in part of a deal centered around 2 good young pitching prospects. Saunders just happens to be the known quantity.
The deal sounds more to me like, “We want Corbin and Skaggs — and we also need someone to slot into the big league rotation in Haren’s place.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm playing devil's advocate here, by the way
I totally wish the A’s had topped that deal and gotten Haren.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's definitely how I read the trade.
Saunders is surely not the centerpiece.
That’s not to say it isn’t necessarily still a bad trade.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I guess what I wish is that
the D-backs had insisted on, say, E. Santana as the “big league piece.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Except Corbin and Skaggs is a terrible return for one of the best pitchers in baseball.
Patrick Corbin was unranked on the Angels’ Top 11 Prospects list published by Baseball Prospectus. More polish than projection, Corbin is also a low-upside prospect
Skaggs is nice, but it’s still not remotely close to being worth it.
Well that's too bad
I’m not that familiar with either of them — pretty much just Sickels’ book. They do both seem to be having good 2010 seasons. And that’s really all I know.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They're also, what, 19 year old pitchers?
You never center a deal around 19 year old pitchers, especially when neither really has more than mid rotation upside.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
How old was Anderson? 20?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
19
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They can't have imagined he'd turn out this good.
He’s upped his velocity since joining the A’s hasn’t he?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
The deal wasn't centered around him.
And the (numerous) complementary pieces were very good.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention he was not thought to
have only a mid-rotation upside
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
That's the key
If these guys are just “meh” prospects then yes, it’s a horrible trade for ARI.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
When the A's traded Haren...
They got….
Carlos Gonzalez. Now starting outfielder with Rockies hitting over .300, five-tool outfielder
Brett Anderson. When healthy, best starter on the A’s staff.
Greg Smith. Occasional MLB starter
Dana Eveland. Occasional MLB starter
Chris Carter: Blue-chip power prospect
Aaron Cunningham. value still to be determined.
The D-Backs also got Conner Robertson, a AAAA reliever.
The D-Backs traded Haren for a mid-rotation starter and two pitchers, one of whom is a decent prospect.
If it wasn’t a salary dump, then the Arizona GM should be fired.
It looks like a pretty terrible trade
But the rumors going around are that this deal was heavily motivated by money and Haren’s no trade clause. Although I mostly saw that on other message board with links to twitter feeds so may not be that reliable. At least it’s believable though.
Braden has been pretty fragile
so he’s not much use as an innings-eater. Saunders has at least been good for 180-200 mediocre innings a year.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
He went a good distance tonight, and could have gone a couple batters longer.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but he's had arm problems in the minors and the majors, his elbow is injured now
and he can’t feel a good portion of one of his feet. Dallas is many wonderful things, but durability isn’t among his virtues.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
His value is actually about commensurate
with his toes: He’s worth about 80%.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If he could pitch every time like he pitched tonight
it would be great. His breaking pitches looked like they were working, there was something like an 18-MPH differential between his fastball and his offspeed…he looked really good.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
And I don't think he pitched over his head today
He’s a very solid pitcher — when he can get out there and throw all his pitches.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think he's a good pitcher when he can throw his whole arsenal.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
haren's ERA during the second half
of the season during his career is ONE point higher compared to the first half…. or so i heard on the radio yesterday
seems he fatigues every year as the season pregresses
by heartstopper on Jul 26, 2010 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
He's given up a lot of hits
and even more than his usual number of HRs (he always gives up lots of HRs, so his numbers this year aren’t necessarily a sign of something wrong).
On the other hand, he’s still not walking anyone, and he’s leading the NL in Ks. He’s a lot better than Joe Saunders.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Yeah, Haren with the Angels worries me.
I still have faith that the Rangers will collapse soon. They have a great offense but their bullpen is merely adequate with some good streaks. Same with their starting pitching, Cliff Lee notwithstanding.
The Angels, on the other hand, have seemed like a team that was a starter and a couple of relievers away from making a run for quite awhile now.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
The Rangers' season rests heavily on Colby Lewis and CJ Wilson
Now those two haven’t in fact collapsed, which so far means they’re legitimately good. But if those two do in fact collapse, Texas could be in trouble.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Lewis' ERA in July is 4.50. Wilson's is a stronger 2.03.
I guess we’ll see what’s up with both of those guys this coming week.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, they still have Holland and Hunter and could move Feliz to the rotation.
And then there’s Harden.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
They can't move Feliz to the rotation this year
It’s late July, and he’s averaging less than an IP per appearance.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I guess, but the point is, that their weaknesses are the least of any of the AL West teams.
Nobody’s good enough to play .650 ball and catch them.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
You're saying that losing Lewis and Wilson wouldn't cripple them
At the same time, having them stay in the rotation and pitch, but pitch badly, might.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wilson is building lots of innings
considering he was their closer last year.
His career high was 74
He’s currently at 128.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fingers crossed.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
That is going to be a problem
Hopefully we knock the piss out of him this week.
I'm saying having Lewis and Wilson as your two biggest problems
is a lot better than having guys who legitimately suck at several positions like Rivera, Kendrick and Matsui and Davis, Gross and the A’s bullpen. Those people all suck now and will for the rest of the season. Lewis and Wilson are now good and maybe will be good or bad the rest of the year.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think "Rivera, Kendrick, and Matsui suck
and will suck for the rest of the season."
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
We'll have to agree to disagree on that
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't bother me in the sense that I now fear the Angels more this year
It bothers me because I like Haren and I don’t want him playing for the Angels.
www.zekeishungry.com
For me, it's also that the Angels will be a lot better in 2011-13
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
IMO they will be a little better
I still think Haren is going to be lucky to be much under 4.00 in the AL.
He WAS in the AL
and he kicked ass here. I am not liking this one bit.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 25, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think he's an example of an excellent pitcher
having a down year for him. Basically the kind of guy you try to pick up.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm waiting for them to announce that Kazmir is out for the year
for sucking shoulder tightness
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 25, 2010 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently he and Chavy share the same injury:
you suck something hurts.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He was in the AL and pitched here
That was a few years ago.
Big difference pitching in Anaslime.
I don’t think with his salary the next few years that he’s any kind of bargain.
I feel sorry for Diamond Backs fans
Can they have gotten anymore fleeced by the Haren trades? Buying high and Selling low are bad ideas.
I really think we still have a shot at contending in this division this year
and would like to see Beane acquire a guy like Werth. With Anderson coming back soon, the addition of a very good hitter to plug in our lineup would make us a pretty formidable team IMO. Hell, with Jackson’s nagging injuries this year, I wouldn’t mind acquiring two corner OF’s, maybe one big name (Werth, Willingham, etc.) and one good, powerful, complementary piece (Cody Ross, etc.)
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Werth for Vinny and H-Rod
Is that enough to get it done?
Just for a rental?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Right -- I'd lean towards Willingham,
because he’s under contract next year. I wouldn’t go after anyone who is a FA after the season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
According to Olney, Phillies willing to trade Werth for a
“starting pitcher regarded as a number 4 type of guy”. This seems pretty interesting, as it seems like the Phillies aren’t asking for too much. If Olney is correct, then something like Dallas Braden, and some prospects like Corey Brown (and/or others at his level) might even get it done. I know it doesn’t sound like it would, but again, if Olney is correct, it might, and if it would I would obviously do that deal in a heartbeat. Plus, one has to take into account that Werth will give you some draft picks as a Type A when he walks.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Mazzaro's also a "#4 type of guy"
Would you trade him for Werth?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Werth is overrated
He’s good, but not that good
He’d be the best hitter on our team easily.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he’d post an .850 OPS here.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is great in Oakland
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think this approach exists
He IS striking out less, but the numbers suggest he’s really approaching at bats the same as last year.
www.zekeishungry.com
No. I'd trade him for Willingham but nor Werth.
Out of our current rotation, I would only trade Dallas Braden, which would only work if we threw them some prospects too
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
He's a Type A FA isn't he?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yes, but I wouldn't trade Mazzaro and Henry for a first and sandwich.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd trade Henry for a sandwich
if it was on any kind of a decent bread.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well Henry is awesome, so it better be mighty good bread
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
And just to make it clear, I can't see why
the Phillies would do that, its just consistent with what Olney is reporting
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I'm sure they'll go for it
But I’m not sure it would worth it for us. Lossing a SP, and probably a good prospect, for a half season rental with 7 games behind first place.
I would rather bring some more talent and stick to the plan of building a competitive team for 2011.
Thing is, "a #4 type guy"
doesn’t tell you whether that’s a “#4 type guy” with 5 years left on his contract or a “#4 type guy” with 1 year left on his contract — and that makes a huge difference to the current value of a given “#4 type guy”.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah
but Braden seems to fit the bill as a number 4 under cheap team control for a while, which makes him an attractive target I would imagine
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of trading away starting pitching.
We’ve had way too much injury trouble. The biggest reason we’re at all in the hunt right now is that we had crazy depth. And even with that depth, we’re winging it with four viable starters (Cahill, Gio, Braden, and Vinny) until Anderson or Sheets gets back.
The offense is getting itself together a little bit now. I think the remedy for the hitless outfield is putting Rosales and Davis in there every day. It might be nice to buy another bat, but anyone we’d get would be a rental that would cost us too many important pitchers and/or prospects. I don’t think we’re close enough to taking the division to justify doing that.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep his "Werth" in mind
Punny!
My meaning is that he’s a rental for a very short period, so he can only command so much in return.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 25, 2010 5:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
JaneMLB
Geren said Rajai feels “pretty sure” he’ll be ready for Tuesday. #Athletics
less than 20 seconds ago via web
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 4:54 PM PDT reply actions
A's improve to 7-1 in the all-important "Games I've Attended" statistic.
Notably, their only loss in the GIA category was at AT&T. The key down the stretch will be getting the A’s to play as many GIAs as possible.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:03 PM PDT reply actions
I blame you for only attending 8 games.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems like the A's are stealing more bases of late.
Am I correct?
If they are, I like the idea. It’s generating a lot of excitement among the fans at games I’ve attended or watched on TV, and it makes things happen on offense. Coco’s late score is a prime example of why the running game is important, separately from what statistics and success percentages show. That won’t go down as a SB in the box score, but because he was running, he went from first to home without a pitch thrown. (It’s also a really good example of why players like Coco and Rajai need to be in the lineup.)
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:12 PM PDT reply actions
Would it be wrong to call up Taylor
starting the Texas series? With the A’s playing well, he’d certainly be an upgrade over Gross, Watson, and Carson. Give Taylor a taste of the big leagues until Jackson comes back.
Crisp
Barton
Suzuki
Cust
Kouzmanoff
Ellis
Taylor
Davis
Pennington
Looks pretty good from here
His swing seems to be back.......I'd be tempted.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
What were CarGo's stats when he was called up?
If I remember correctly, CarGo made his debut in Arlington, right?
Someone fire up the Sports Machine signal!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
His first three games were in Texas and he hit .364/.364/.727 with four doubles.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
He was batting .283/.344/.416 (.760 OPS) in 149 PA.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this Sports Machine signal. It always comes through.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Thanks
Taylor as of now is .268/.341/.398 (.739)
Close enough, bring him up! Couldn’t hurt
You realize CarGo kinda sucked when he came up?
In fact CarGo sucked enough that the A’s FO lost faith and traded him away.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Taylor for Matt Holliday!
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d bat Barton first, Pennington second, Cust third and Suzuki fourth.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Crisp at the top. He plays like a leadoff hitter, and when he starts hitting like he can again, that will be a welcome 5-AB presence.
I’d go Crisp, Pennington, Suzuki, Cust, Barton, Kouz, Ellis, Taylor, Davis. And I’d put Rosales in any one of those slots, in any one of those positions except catcher or DH, every day.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Barton batting second
Just not when he bunts
I do too.
But I also like two solid baserunners at the front end followed by the two closest things we have to power hitters. Then you start over again with Barton, Kouz, and Ellis, setting it up for Taylor. And I love the idea of Davis-Crisp-Pennington.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Much as I want to see Rosales get some playing time, I wouldn't object to it.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Rosy is good in a reserve role
Like Nico said, he’d probably be “exposed” if he became an everyday guy
I'm not clear on what "exposed" means in that context.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Like "they" have for all our other hitters. How could he be worse than Gross and the Matts?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Excuse me, but Mr. Carson's first name is "Splatt"
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
How could he be worse than Gross, Splatt, and Weird Beard?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Very good point.
I think what they’re saying is that once opposing teams solve Rosales, he loses his value as a super-sub. Not sure I agree that he’d be that easily thwarted, but I think that’s what they’re driving at.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
But what "they" haven't addressed why it's OK to have Gross exposed then.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Pick good spots for him and he'll help you
Play him every day and his weaknesses — how he hits RHP, how patient he is(n’t), how well he recognizes breaking balls — will start becoming the dominant themes.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Once again, the A’s lack of a hitting coach brings me back down to reality.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
From the little I saw yesterday, as the game was on TV,
he didn’t knock my socks off — and that includes the AB in which he singled. But that’s the ultimate small sample.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They need to broadcast more River Cats games
I’d watch ’em
I don't think the River Cats are normally on TV at all
Unless you watch on the MILB site or something.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I have felt for a long time that the A's should be getting their affiliates' games broadcast.
It would help to build the brand, as well as to build player recognition, which everybody knows is sorely lacking among the casual fans. Imagine the A’s having a dedicated channel that broadcast their games, as well as the games of their MiLB affiliates, around the clock.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that's more up to the affiliates themselves
Minor League teams benefit more from people going to games instead of watching them on TV.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
My imaginary channel is for the Bay Area market specifically.
I guess that could hurt attendance for the RiverCats, but not really for anyone else. And even then, a lot of their ticket prices are comparable to the A’s pricing, and I haven’t heard anything suggesting that the A’s being broadcast on TV has hurt attendance.
Those minor-league towns really love their teams. I don’t think it would be an issue. But for Bay Area fans, who are the base that needs to be built up, it would help build player recognition and a brand, especially if the teams’ color schemes (or even their names) were changed to be more in line with the big-league team.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno about that
You can’t easily just say “Okay, Sacramento, Midland, Stockton, Kane County and all the rest are going to be on TV only in the Bay Area” and expect people outside the Bay Area to be happy with that. I can get to Sacramento and Stockton easily enough but I’d like to see the other games when I can’t make it out, and I’d like to see Midland and Kane County as well. So where’s the balance?
As for color schemes and names, I don’t think so. Those affiliates all have their own identities and reasons for their names. Stockton has ship ports, for example. Some are whimsical, but that’s part of the nature of the minors. They also don’t need to all reflect the parent club’s colors. Otherwise, every time an affiliation changed, they’d have to change their name, logo and colors as well. That’s not sensible.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Is there a huge demand for the A’s minor-league affiliates to be televised outside of the Bay Area?
I recognize that there’s also not a huge demand for it IN the Bay Area, but part of the idea would be selling it to the public.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt there is, which is why few minor league games are televised in most places
The other problem is you’d have to tape-delay most of the games because chances are they’d overlap the MLB game going on. On top of that, nobody’s going to have the time to sit and watch all of the other games, so if anything the best thing that could be done is a general recap during the MLB team’s postgame show.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I have no problem with tape delayed games. What else does CSNCA have to show?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying I'd mind tape-delayed games
I just don’t think there’s going to be much interest in them overall.
If anything it’d be easier to do a half-hour or hour program with some condensed highlights from each game, but even then you can’t run it the same night all the games are played because the ones in California are ending around 10 PM or so.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Imagine watching two games every day. You'd never get anything done.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
If commercials are to be believed, some people seem to watch a trillion football games a week with DirectTicket or whatever it's called.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
There's an idea
Make it a four-box screen (or whatever it takes at the time) and show all the minor league games at once the next day. Move the box to the picture you want and get the audio for it.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
For instance, the Sacramento area is renowned for its rivercats
Can’t believe they didn’t just revive the name Solons. That was one of the greatest team names ever.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
You joke, but have you ever seen one of the Sacramento area's River Cats?
They’re truly majestic. Sopping wet fur…that puzzled face cats get whenever they’re in water, because after millions of years of evolution, they still don’t really get it…
If Sacramento wanted to name themselves after something they’re famous for, they should’ve called themselves the Sacramento Deftones.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously, it's just a fantastic name
Kicks “Ottawa Senators” or “Washington Capitols” in the ass 8 ways to Sunday. It’s connected to the city, and sounds really, really cool.
The PCL in general had very good names. Seals, Oaks, Stars, Angels, Rainiers.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Agreed: Solons rocks.
Great cap insignia, too:
Tacoma team adopted the “Rainiers” name when it became associated with the Mariners.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Blackletter FTW!
That is blackletter isn’t it?
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
That doesn't sound very fair to me
A bunch of 14-year-olds having to play a AAA team full of grown men.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I dunno
I kinda like the open competition between Watson and Carson. Neither are quite established/good enough that it would effect them too much when getting subbed for the other one mid-game, and the constant threat of getting yanked for the other guy keeps them both on their toes. Between the two of them, you could probably squeeze out some decent value.
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
Taylor better than Watson or Carson?
Watson and Carson both had much better numbers than Taylor in AAA.
by A's Believer on Jul 25, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Getting a million years to get accustomed to AAA pitching will give you that advantage.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, veteran knowledge
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Rotoworld_BB
B. Anderson -S -OAK: Geren: Anderson likely to start Friday vs CHW http://tinyurl.com/crkdrs
19 minutes ago via API
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 5:27 PM PDT reply actions
If only we could have gotten him a day sooner.
I’m not sure Cahill-Gio-Vinny vs. Lee-Lewis-Wilson works out to a likelihood of us winning two games out of that series, which would be very very nice.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm tellin' ya, get Shapiro on the phone
Carson, Watson & Mortensen for Shin Soo Choo!
Get her done BB!!!!
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
Would the Indians make that trade?
Or were you joking?
Everything I’ve heard indicates that Cleveland isn’t selling anybody unless they get a pretty good deal.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I was joking
but I’d love that deal.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 25, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
If BB could pull that off
then he’d belong in the HoF as well
As long as Choo doesn't have to go back to South Korea to serve a military stint
Last of the Ninth - Photography
He would if we traded for him.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Really?
Even with his broken kidney, sprained spine, and “aggressive gout”?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
S. Korea is gearing up for war. They need everyone they can get.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
(runs out of Korean restaurant)
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
(writes Korean restaurant on the grocery list)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Plus their army could really use someone
with a good opposite field swing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Could we trade them Ryan Sweeney then?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Sure, but what would you want back?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothing -- "you owe me a favor"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Thank you godfather.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
"Never disgrace the OF"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Right-O godfather
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to jinx anything, guys, but we are poised to move within a half-game of second place tonight.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 6:14 PM PDT reply actions
I like being poised
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I sat 2 rows behind the visitors dugout today.
Best seats I’ve ever had, and it was a great game to have them. Watching Guillen close up was something else.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
The sad thing is that he might not be
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Carson had a .900 OPS in Sac, and Watson's was .958
Taylor’s is about .750
Pam liked my old sig better.
He's at .895 in July. Maybe that's what d23 was referring to.
minorleaguesplits thinks his July performance translates to .722 in the majors, so that would be less than .700 in Oakland.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
They had Watson pegged for a .895 Bad-Facial-Hair Percentage.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
They misunderestimated him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They have Carson at .749 and Watson at .828 in MLB
Baseball Prospectus has Carson at .733 and Watson at .754 in the majors which would be less in Oakland, especially for Carson since the Coliseum is especially tough on right handed hitters. BB-Pro is tougher on old AAA guys than minorleaguesplits.com in their translations.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
No 'cos we don't have a bull pen.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I would, if he has sufficient value. He would help a lot of teams right now.
It all depends on what you can get back.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wuertz for Mark Reynolds
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh goodness no -- too many strickouts!!!
Why on earth would Arizona do that?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No one with half a brain cell would do that.
The question is, of course, whether or not Arizona’s ownership and management has half a brain cell between them.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
No way in hell AZ does that
That being said, DiPoto looks like he is more than willing to sell low (Haren) in order to save some money, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we could acquire Reynolds for a relatively small return. They are definitely looking for some bullpen help at the moment-how about something like Justin Marks, Corey Brown, Henry Rodriguez and Jared Lansford for Mark Reynolds?
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
DiPoto would probably be stupid enough to do that, but I find it hard to believe no
one else could top it
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I also find it hard to believe that nobody could have topped
the offer for Haren….but we all know what happened there….
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Indeed
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder whether they'd do Wuertz and Krol for Chris Young.
He’s getting expensive
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Jack Cust with speed!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or Coco Crisp with health and strikouts
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
For anyone, or for Chris Young?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd be hesitant to trade Krol
Especially in a deal for a guy like Young. He is probably our top SP prospect, a fact both reflective of Krol’s decently high upside and our lack of quality pitching prospects.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
You think he's a better prospect than Ross?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Ross doesn't know where the ball is going.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'd personally take him over Ross
I like Ross, but I think his mechanics are holding him back, both performance-wise and possibly future injury-wise. Krol probably has the upside of a number 3 starter, has shown very good control, and has pretty good stuff. I’ve heard him likened to a poor man’s Brett Anderson. I’d rank our SP prospects: 1) Krol, 2) Ross, 3) Marks
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Even if he's overhyped and had a health blip,
I think you have to put Ynoa up there. I’m not all that high on Ross either, because he has three things working against him:
1. Only two pitches
2. Very spotty control
3. High injury risk mechanics
He has to go 3 for 3 to be any good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good point on Ynoa
But I am basically counting on him doing nothing until he proves he can stay healthy
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Ian Krol is also only 19
It would be a bad call to say Ross is the better prospect just because he’s at a higher level-would you take Kris Medlen over Julio Teheran? Teheran is in A+ while Medlen is in the MLB….I know extreme example but you get my point
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Let me put it this way.
Prospects in AAA have a, let’s say, 50% bust rate. Prospects in A- have an 85% bust rate. The fact that Ross has even made it to AAA says volumes about his talent. I’m not going to put Halama over Ynoa, obviously, but in the case of two relatively equal-ish prospects in terms of talent, take the AAA guy over the A- guy.
Then just like games in Colorado,
your analysis needs to be “blog-adjusted.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sure it speaks to Ross's talent that he's in AAA
But he is 23-thats more or less where he should be right now. Krol is 19-you can hardly fault him for being in A ball, because it is solely because of his age/lack of experience, rather than his performance thus far. And honestly, I would say Ross could have a high chance of being a bust than Krol, given his glaring issues he must work out
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I'm not faulting him for being young.
But the minor league system isn’t grade school where everybody advances together. It’s a selective elimination process, where only the strong survive. If I had a choice between a #10 ranked AAA’er or a #10 ranked A-ball guy, I’d take the AAA guy.
And I'd take the #10 A-ball guy since he'd have more upside
This is where miles vary.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Him being 19 is a point against his favor.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I think being in AAA means there's less that can go wrong. A 12 year old
in junior high may be exactly where he’s supposed to be, but he’s automatically a worse prospect than a 23 year old in AAA.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless it's Danny Almonte,
in which case it’s actually the exact same thing!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Really depends on the prospects being discussed
I’d take a lot of A ball pitchers over a lot of AAA pitchers-just look at the Braves A rotation: Arodys Vizcaino, Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado….I’d take that over a lot of AAA rotations
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Yes, but those guys all have Ace potential
Both Ross and Krol have mid-rotation upside
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I just see Ross as a longer shot to reach his potential
Even taking into account Krol’s age/level. Ross just has so many issues that he needs to work out, starting with his mechanics. Krol seems to have less issues to work past.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Right, it's possible to argue for either one. I'd prefer
Ross because he’s already had some success getting major league hitters out and Krol might be no better than Anthony Capra, but I can see your point of view.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not selling high when a player just recently returned to his actual ability after being bad for 2 months while recovering from injury
It’s okay to not trade a guy who is playing well. I’m all for selling high on a player having a fluke season, but history suggests Wuertz being good isn’t a fluke.
www.zekeishungry.com
Can we talk Mad Men now?
Cup, are you watching? Can you drop a discreet spoiler?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Don't wait up, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If Taylor and Carter could prove to be solid major league power hitters, we wouldn't have to pull that trigger at all.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Or if Arizona will just give us whatever we need
and not ask much in return.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This is probably the easiet route to go
At this point I’m wondering why it took Demel to get Jackson. Based on Arizona’s usual history, seems like all it would’ve taken to get Jackson is Tomko and Embree (I know Embree hasn’t been on the team in 2 years)
www.zekeishungry.com
So why did Arizona's management make this deal?
Prepare to have your mind blown
On Joe Saunders:
“We achieved by maintaining major league quality with a 2008 All-Star in Joe Saunders and a guy who quite frankly has been one of the winners in Major League Baseball. I think he trails only Roy Halladay among major leaguers in total wins. He’s won 63 percent of his games since coming to the major leagues”
“He’s a pedigreed major league pitcher who has accomplished quite a bit. I believe it’s a .630 winning percentage in his major league career.”
On Patrick Corbin:
“We had a lot of interest in him during last season’s draft and all he’s done is go out and lead the minor leagues in wins. To this point in the minor league season, he’s 13-3 at two A levels.”
On how this deal compares to the A’s-Dbacks Haren deal:
“Well, hindsight is 20/20…
So many choice bits in that article. I redact my Wuertz for Reynolds offer. Offer them Mortenson instead. He’s 11-3 at Sacramento
Seriously. The A’s need to take advantage of this guy running the DBacks.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
There's spin.
And then there’s comparing a guy to Roy Halladay using one of baseball’s most pointless statistics.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
like* Roy Halladay
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
wait, nvm this edit
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Someone should mention to him
that if he’s so keen on Saunders’ winning pct, he sort of neglected to trade for the Angels lineup.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I still think he's just spinning it to make it look "good."
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not working
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Spin rarely does these days.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Well it works with the base, but GMs have no base
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure it's spin. They JUST made the deal. They didn't have to trade Haren.
This sounds like their actual reasoning.
www.zekeishungry.com
Comments like these
make me wonder “Why can’t I be a GM right now?”
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I doubt DiPoto's doing anything he's not been ordered to do
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure he could have "dumped Haren's salary"
and gotten a heck of a lot more in return. The order probably wasn’t, “Damn it, get me Joe Saunders — I don’t care what it takes!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't know that he'd have gotten a lot more if he had to move by this weekend and
Haren limited him to the Cardinals and Angels. I’ve no idea why he had to move by this weekend though.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Did Haren limit it that much?
I haven’t read up on it at all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He rejected the Twins and Tigers. The only other names I've heard were
the Yankees and Cardinals….maybe the Phillies.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
They should have been able to get more
regardless of when they had to move him by. Cliff Lee got a blue-chip stud. Haren should have at least gotten something close.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
He even ruled us out?
What a dick.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I haven't heard that
Maybe the A’s were never in the conversation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If I'm DiPoto I'd call Beane before taking that Angels deal
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Also every other GM on earth
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, to say,
“Billy, I have no clue how to be a GM — what should I DO????”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't think he did but I never heard the A's rumored to be in the discussion.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems like where Beane is shrewd
is that DiPoto felt he had to make a trade. In this situation, Beane would just hang onto Haren.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I was thinking the same thing-just hang onto him
although he might have been ordered to trade him, we just don’t know
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
It's not July 31st.
Different phone calls come in on the 30th.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah very true
Any way you look at it, DiPoto should have, at the very least, waited for other offers to come in as teams get a little more anxious/desperate at the deadline
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
When Beane gave up Harden for a not-spectacular haul
it was clear that the team was afraid that Rich’s arm was going to fall off before they had a chance to move him. I can’t believe that DiPoto is worrying about Haren getting hurt before the 31st.
Really hard to explain why AZ did this.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Clearly you're not familiar with Joe Saunders' winning percentage, moran.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Every time I try to look at his WL percentage
I’m blinded by all the grit that gets in my eyes. But I think I can see him toeing the line through my tears…
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
This is a key point
For all his durability, stuff, and track record, Danny Haren has surprisingly poor “toe the line” skills. The Angels got robbed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Or at least made calls to other teams not already in the discussion.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
I’m sure if he said to some teams “Angels are offering me Skaggs, Saunders, Corbin and middling garbage”, at least one GM would jump at the opportunity to beat that offer
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
The DBacks do have one of MLB's dumbest ownerships.
But even if he was being forced to trade Haren, there’s no reason to settle for and accept a package this bad.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
The best I can figure is that ownership wanted it done by Monday, and Haren vetoed
trades to the Tigers and Twins, so it was either Ivan Nova from the Yankees, crap from the Cardinals or Skaggs and Saunders from the Angels
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Everyone's at fault here.
DiPoto for not understanding how to be a GM….the owners for forcing the trade…
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
There's a lot of criticism of GM's on blogs, and sometimes I wonder if it's waranted.
Apparently it is.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Eh, maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
You’d have to know the GM’s plan. You have to believe there is,in fact, a plan. I can see why Arizona is interested in dumping salary for prospects….no matter how lame divisional rivals may view their approach.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
"You have to believe there is,in fact, a plan."
Dayton Moore has a plan. We’re all gonna find out what it is in 2023.
www.zekeishungry.com
Dayton's plan is actually working now....I think it'll be fine by 2013
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 26, 2010 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Eh, Mike Moustakas will be traded for a 40 year old Derek Jeter.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
OT -- Matt Holliday's bad baserunning
costs the Cardinals the chance to take the lead in the top of the 10th.
STUPID BALD-PATED DWARFYHOLE!!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
What did he do to make you hate him so much?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe it was his seemingly intentionally poor play while in an A's uniform.
by StJosephBurningTheOakTreesToTheGround on Jul 25, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that's very harsh
I really don’t think he was that evil, I think it was merely “I couldn’t give a sh*t”.
He goes down as another random Matt corner outfielder in my book
not only is this completely false, but it's a repeated argument with no merit.
Pam liked my old sig better.
People do make a connection between "doesn't want to be here" and "isn't playing hard."
I’m not sure they should, but I understand it.
I don’t understand “poor play.” He was pretty much what people should’ve expected upon moving to the AL/Oakland from the NL/Colorado.
www.zekeishungry.com
Buster Olney is clueless
Scouts had noticed a dip in Ben Sheets’ velocity and less use of his breaking ball before the right-hander hit the DL with elbow trouble. Olney notes that Oakland’s “Matt Holliday plan” has been a bust in Sheets’ case, since his injury means they’re stuck with him.
Beane clearly said over and over that they were most likely going to keep him either way. Olney is a blabbermouth.
Ya but I didn't believe Beane when he said that. I assumed it meant that no one offered anything of value.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Mmmm
I think if he had stayed healthy, Sheets would have been dealt.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How could that be true?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I mean, if it turns out that Billy had some kind of planned deal worked out
that was nixed due to Sheets’ injury.
You mean if DiPoto wanted Sheets instead of Saunders?
Hee hee.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh give me a break -- have you seen Sheets' winning percentage???
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
In my dream world, he comes off the DL after 3 weeks and pitches a no hitter and is dealt that same evening.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
The way I see it
The injury to Sheets is a blessing in disguise. He can still provide leadership in the clubhouse, mentor the young the staff, and it gives Vinny a chance to stay in the rotation. All for just $4 million!
And to think I was going to offer to do it for 3M.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Are you willing to dry hump the pitching staff?
That’s part of the package
I would rather have some bullpen help and/or shiny new prospects
than “clubhouse leadership”. I really think we could have gotten a guy like Kanley Jansen + more from the Dodgers, which would improve our team this year and in the future.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I'm with you
I’d prefer if Sheets had been dealt. I’m just saying that because he won’t/can’t be dealt, it’s sort of a blessing.
Well, I, probably for one, think the Slegna are essentially irrelvant.
From here on out, it’s the head2heads that matter.
A’s’ chances reside in the 13 games with Tejas. Angels are slowly sinking — I just don’t think they’re as good as the Sregnar. If Haren lines up against Oakland, he’s likely to be only marginally better than what Saunders usually does against us.
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
I'm guessing Beane will make at least one move at the deadline
Probably for another relief pitcher
I do think I'm ready for Taylor to play right field.
I don’t see the point in Gross out there, near term or far term. .
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jul 25, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too, but
it’s gonna be Gross/Carson/Watson for a while…
/sigh
Travis Buck is just around the corner!
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Quick -- somebody knack him on his whee!
The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus
by The Dogfather on Jul 25, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Not when he's hitting .136...
in AAA!
I do want the A’s to give him one final shot though
They are.
In AAA. Where he belongs, until he can prove otherwise.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
Well, his very SSS in the Majors this year was significantly better than Gross/Matt x 2
I don’t care if he’s hitting .136 in AAA at the moment. He hasn’t played in almost 3 months. It’s basically spring training all over again for him.
www.zekeishungry.com
I think your post is spot on.
It still doesn’t help with the nausea at the thought of Danny Haren as a hated Halo.
I love winning.
Especially when I’m there.
One of my favorite baseball moments? A standing O for the departing starter- when it’s warranted, of course, as it was today.
One of my least favorite? When fans do the same for a reliever who’s pitched to one batter.
No matter. I love winning.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Yay and you were with your godson
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Maybe they just hadn't had time to sit down yet
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
CoCo
Don’t think his numbers are doing him justice to be honest.
Was at the game today, and was just all round impressed by his play today – offensive approach, defense, base running.
He’s had a tough last couple of weeks, but I think he’s key
I'm one gigantic Ray Ratto ad away from never coming to an SB nation site again.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Get used to it!
I for one am glad to see the “start ups” re-writing the rules. Bending the Ratto’s of the world to a new order is comforting.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
What's an "ad"?
Take your silver mod tubescreamer, your dr. z, your nocaster, put them in a pile and burn them. if god gave you a thousand years, you still couldn't touch this. you can't f***ing keep time to this.
omg we won
hi from SLO
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jul 25, 2010 10:12 PM PDT reply actions
Bobo
Sure do wish we could get Geren a job coaching softball down in Santa Maria….ASAP!
It ain't over till the fat lady sings...but she is on a diet now!
YAY!!!!! Best comment ever!!!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Wow, GREAT game- so glad Braden could get the win.
Bummed about Haren but glad to see Cy Saunders gone.
If its any consolation we kick the crap out of Zito( ‘good’ and ‘bad’ Zito), why not Haren too?
It will be terrible to see him in the red jersey.
oh well- at least we had him when he was new, and shiny, and really cheap.
Yeah, Haren can beat everyone else
just the A’s have to kick the crap out of him.
And the rest of the Angels rotation get the crap kicked out of them.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
Streak's Over At Last
Great, Braden won. Hope he can continue winning, now. Let down from Geren, though. Braden could have taken Beckham. And ‘cause there’s a day of now, Ziggy didn’t have to be treated like a prince. BTW, I got a website at oaklandfans.weebly.com. Would be nice if you could vist.
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