Dan Haren an Angel; Universe Set to Collapse
by Joey C. on Jul 25, 2010 4:15 PM PDT
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PrintNot to be cowed by the Rangers' acquisition of a shiny new Cliff Lee, the Angels have made a splash of their own by trading for Dan Haren. The Diamondbacks get Joe Saunders, lefty Patrick Corbin and right-hander Rafael Rodriguez, along with a player to be named later.
I, meanwhile, get the sinking feeling that the existentialists were right. CAMUUUUUUUUUUUS! /shakefist
Alright, so maybe it's not all that bad. Actually, yes, it is. Nick Swisher is a member of the hated Yankees and Dan Haren is a member of the still-more-hated Angels. Two of my favorite players from the 2006 squad that went to the ALCS are now mere cogs in the monolithic machines of evil hellbent on destroying the purity of baseball and humanity at large at least that's how it plays out in my head.
But this isn't about me, is it? No, this is about the Rangers and Angels getting locked into a game of cat and also-cat. What say you, oh prescient ANers? Is this the move that brings the Angels neck-and-neck with the club at Arlington? Or are they just treading water in a slightly more vigorous fashion? And, of course, how does this affect the A's?
As for the prospects: you can look at what the L.A. fans think of Pat Corbin here (if you can stand the smell of that place), or you can check out the oft-entertaining Sickels report here (hint: he gives Corbin a C+).
Rafael Rodriguez is 25 and has played in 19 major league games thus far, with a 1.81 WHIP and a dead-even K/BB rate (11-11). And of course, many of us are well acquainted with Joe Saunders at this point. All of which leads me to ask-- did the Angels get their swindle on? 'Cuz this seems to me like a mighty crappy return for Dan Haren. Please tell me how I'm wrong.
Damn it all.
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Thanks for posting!
Just now saw this. Callaspo, Haren…..fuck!
But you know, I still like our chances nonetheless
AN: We is all growed up now.
Universe Set to Callapso?
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Angels making good trades
and A’s can’t find their feet in one recently.
Damnit Beane! Stop watching the Earthquakes and Brat Pitt’s hair and either do your job or resign so we can let someone who does care do it.
by Zonis on Jul 25, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can't find their feet?
Braden?
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Unless the PTBNL is something huge,
the D’Backs got swindled, pure and simple. Joe Saunders is not good.
Salary dump
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know, I am floating ideas, because it makes no sense whatsoever
Maybe Haren ran over his dog
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I do know this
The D-Backs got Beane’d again!
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Salary dump is right!
The Dbacks got taken in this one hands down….I dread having to root against Dan Haren for the next several years dammit! I love that guy and at least if he was traded to the Yanks or Boston we would only have to see him a couple of times a year instead of 4-5 times….shitballs!
Me no likey…. :(
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I see
Well, then. This pretty much expresses my attitude toward the Angels and D’backs.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Man
Ren and Stimpy was messed up.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on Jul 26, 2010 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions
No kidding
I don’t understand how I became a (reasonably) well-adjusted adult after growing up watching it. It’s like an acid-induced hallucination on crack.
I'm hoping it's Mike Trout
It the PTBNL isn’t really good, then it looks like the Dbacks pretty much gave Haren away.
Joe Saunders? Seriously?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
by Nick on Jul 25, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the PTBNL will be Hank Conger (currently injured).
Still a laugher for the Angels. Someone should seriously file a complaint against this trade on account of being too lopsided.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems to be another Lefty
“The Arizona Republic has reported the Player To Be Named Later in this deal is Tyler Skaggs, the 40th overall pick from the 2009 draft, currently posting a 3.61 ERA through 19 Midwest League appearances.”
Was going to make a post, but took too long, so here it is.
During our defeat of the Chicago White Sox, A’s fans everywhere lost a dear friend. Dan Haren has been acquired by the Anaheim Slegna in exchange for Joe Saunders (He of the 4.62 ERA, and surprisingly even worse FIP and XFIP), Patrick Corbin, Rafeal Rodriguez and AN Fan Favorite, PTBNL.
This seems a very poor return for an Ace, and especially compared to what the Diamondbacks gave up to acquire Haren in the first place. Haren has a team friendly contract with a few more years on it. In return, the DBacks got a mediocre starting pitcher who is entering Arbitration, a middle reliever, an A-Ball arm ranked the Angels 21st Prospect and a grade of C+ by Sickles, and of course, the PTBNL, which supposedly a blue chip prospect (but not Mike Trout), and he better be, because thats the only possible savior of this trade.
To put this in terms that A’s fans might be able to understand a bit better, the A’s equivalent of this trade might be:
Mark Redman (Circa 2004)
Henry Rodriguez
Justin Marks
PTBNL
Now I would trade that for Dan Haren in a heartbeat.
Oh how Value rises and plummets
Dan Haren’s Trade’s
To STL:
Mark Mulder (2 Years left under control)
To OAK:
Dan Haren
Kiko Calero
Daric Barton
The main piece of a big trade.
To Arizona:
Dan Haren
Connor Robertson
To OAK:
Brett Anderson
Carlos Gonzalez
Chris Carter
Aaron Cunningham
Greg Smith
Dana Eveland
Huge amount dealt for Haren and a throw in. A future Ace, a future Star CF, a future Top 1B/OF Prospect, an average OF, and two 6th Starters. In return, the Dbacks got an Ace with a long term, team friendly contract, which they themselves tore up and made longer, but still team friendly.
To ANA:
Dan Haren
To Arizona:
Joe Saunders
Patrick Corbin
Rafael Rodriguez
PTBNL
Wow Haren’s value has plummeted. Despite a team friendly contract and a few more years, was dealt in a pure salary dump for crap, crap, crap and something that better not be crap.
The D-Backs fans are floating the idea that the PTBL will be Mike Trout
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Please get rid of Jerry DiPoto now.
It’s a pure salary dump, period.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I think he was just following orders
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a thought, feel free to set me straight, but
Haren, in the NL, has slowly lost his dominance, and seems to be just an above average pitcher this season. Now, coming back to the AL, is he really so big of an upgrade over Saunders to give the Slegna the push they need to catch the Rangers or outpace us? I don’t think so.
AN: We is all growed up now.
Your answer?
Joe Saunders:
4.62 ERA, 4.70 FIP, 4.94 xFIP
Dan Haren:
4.60 ERA, 3.91 FIP, 3.38 xFIP
Thats really good.
They just made a massive upgrade.
Are you taking in to consideration the difference in the leagues?
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I did not know that
thank you
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I'unno, OP
These stats are looking mighty fine. A WAR of 6 last year and just under 5 before that? He had a WHIP of 1.003 in ‘09 and he had 223 Ks to just 38 unintentional BBs. That’s video game territory.
This season, even if it weren’t fueled by bad luck (get hip to the .341 BABIP), should still be seen as an outlier of sorts. And if this is your bad outlier season… keeeeee-ripes.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
No disputing the past numbers, I am going off this year, and wondering what would Saunders numbers be like
if he pitched in the same league as Haren.
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with that! Good riddance!
What I guess I am driving at is there are what, 12 more starts, maybe 13, for Haren with the Slegna? Does he substantially win more games than Saunders in that timeframe?
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I am talking about right now, this year, this race.
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
This trade is not about this year though
its about putting yourself in a better position this year and next
Oh, I wholefreakinheartedly agree with you on that point
I HATE that the Slegna got Haren. But Saunders for Haren in this race. I don’t think
it is a big enough boost to push them over the edge, like an impact bat such as, oh, I don’t know, Vlad!
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
We are going to trade for Fielder by the way
just you wait. Billy will have them all drooling.
Sorry, milk just came out my nose
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I like that Saunders is gone. He absolutely kills us.
Obviously I hate that they’ve got Haren for nothing, but that’s a silver lining.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
We know where he hides all his secrets
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He does sound like a stoner.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Him and Barry Zito
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
Tim L. over cross the bay is the chief of all stoners...
just search “timmy and bus” on tauntr.com…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com
Bobby Crosby is my Cousin
www.athleticsnation.com
by SeanCrosby87 on Jul 25, 2010 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, what up with that?
Is this something I need to fix as post author?
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
yeah Joey, what the fuck is wrong with you!!!!???
if you look at my second comment, I think I left a bold tag open.
{slinks off into the night}
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I make a Fan Post once every 2 years, and look what you do!
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
{digs whole in the night}
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Dan saves the day!
Now back to the other Dan
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I did it below to test, but thanks Dannyboy!
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
What if I type Danny Haren < /effective >
Will Haren then stop being an effective pitcher?
This trade makes the Johan Santana trade seeem like a good deal for the Twins.
I can’t believe the DBacks owners fired Josh Byrnes so his replacement could shit on the team with this trade.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Maybe this is some kind of performance art piece
He wishes to destroy the DBacks with one swift trade, just to show us all how fragile we are.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
by Joey C. on Jul 25, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then, I hope he's not done yet.
Beane should send him Wuertz and H-Rod for Upton.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Get'er dun!
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
But.....those two guys have value.
It should be Carson, Bowers, and a PTBNL.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Seriously
The sense I get is that Danny could have been had for, like, Braden, Henry Rodriguez, Justin Souza and a PTBNL not named Taylor or Carter.
Obviously it’s all conjecture, but c’mon, man.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Haren? With this rotation? Mindblowing.
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
That's basically what the Angels gave Arizona.
And christ, you know what would have happened if we had done that?
I don't know the Angels system well, but that PTBNL won't be crippling I don't think.
So yeah, basically the D’Backs have given away Haren. For no reason.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
The Angels can give up anyone in their farm system (not named Trout) as the PTBNL and it'll still be a steal for them.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I know what would have happened for me personally
Re-acquiring one of my all-time favorite A’s pitchers? For that price? Bar exam be damned, I’d be testing the outer human limits of conga line/Scotch consumption stamina.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
I can't believe Billy didn't get in on this, considering that soccer's over and everything.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dan has a spreadsheet for that.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Maverick was on Top Gear today.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
outer limits there involves walls turning green
and you don’t remember why the next day.
Yes, PLEASE. Get some glory and trade for Justin Upton
Or Mark Reynolds, even.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
reynolds: too many strickouts
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
if this is the bar for what theyre asking who fricking cares?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I think xbx was being sarcastic. He just forgot to use the right font.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
oh that makes more sense. sorry too angry to see the sarcasm
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
The use of the word "strickouts" was the clue for me.
Although I prefer the “strikouts” spelling
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
We still have a chance!
If an old man, a smuggler, a kid from Tatooine and a ragtag rebellion can bring down the DeathStar with one well placed shot, we still have hope!
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 25, 2010 4:56 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Rotoworld_BB
T. Skaggs -S -ANA: Report: Skaggs the PTBNL to ARZ in Haren swap http://tinyurl.com/2bttech
6 minutes ago via API
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 25, 2010 5:40 PM PDT reply actions
skaggs is pretty good of the non trout options
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
So that's 4 pitchers for Haren?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
yeah its a shitty idea
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AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGg
fulkjn;ewfsadij;dfsf’;oadgtsf’oihadfs\
mother jk;ldfsa;f;lkjdfas
AZ eat a bag of ;ladfslsf;ljafs;ls;ladfsa
soooo mad right now
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jul 25, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
hes josh donaldson with an injury history
Skaggs was someone I really liked in the draft.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Very low level guy with mid rotation upside.
Hilarious that Z managed to get Smoak for a half season of Lee….actually no, none of this is very funny.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 25, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Z is very good i think
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps, but his club sure does suck.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
that was a pre existing condition
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 26, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously couldn't we have just given up Braden Donaldson FDLS and Marks for Haren? WTF
so you fire Byrnes so you can pull shit moves like this?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 5:45 PM PDT reply actions
We probably don't have anyone like Skaggs in the system. Figueroa would have been the closest till
he got hurt, but I’d still rather have Skaggs. But I’d have given them Cahill and not worried about it.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Krol?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Skaggs is projectable. Krol basically is a command guy.
I don’t see them as particularly close.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Krol's a mystery. I've read reports that his ceiling is as a #4 guy, but
high school pitchers often add velocity and another pitch and morph into something else. I’d keep an eye on Krol, I think he’s going to be something special.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
where was he cited as a #4 guy?
also I believe hes got the velo up a tick from when he was drafted.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Kevin Goldstein apparently.
I read it on Sickel’s site here
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
fuck it I would have given them Braden Taylor Donaldson + a non carter/cardenas spec of their choice
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
ok thats a little much but Braden Taylor and Donaldson would have been a done deal for me
and we all know what I think of Donaldson.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Also we do have that, Ynoa and Ross would both fit the bill
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I can see liking Skaggs better than Ynoa for performance reasons and Ross because
his motion looks less painful. I’d take Ynoa but Jerry’s MMV.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
MMV?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Miles may vary
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions
not true
Skaggs and Corbin are both lefties
Just because AZ took it in the behind doesn’t mean they would be interested in anything the A’s had to offer. I mean there is a good chance that the crack addled mind of DiPoto believes this stuff about Saunders and his wins and his playoff experience. I mean it’s stupid, but how else do you explain it?
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Jul 26, 2010 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
No way I would have given up Cahill in any trade scenario for Haren
No friggin way!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
The thing is
There is no way the D-Backs would trade Haren back for the A’s. It just looks terrible to have the same team fleece you twice with the same player. Even the dumbest fans can comprehend that.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
On the face of it...
this looks like a great deal for the Angels. While it probably won’t help them this season, or not enough, it definitely makes them a better team going forward, unless Haren is on a downslope.
I can’t understand why the D’Backs couldn’t have gotten more for Haren. He’s a proven, top-quality starter under contract.
My daughter still has her Haren bobblehead. Sigh.
Would you have given up.
Mazzaro
Cardenas
And 2 other C level guys for Haren? I would have done that in a heartbeat. He is under contract until 2013 am I correct. I think we should have gotten in on this deal.
by Twan54321 on Jul 25, 2010 6:17 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
No.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
It doesn't have to be those two players.
But if I was a major league GM that’s the return I would be looking for. It’s a lot closer to a reasonable deal than what the Dbacks got IMO.
by Twan54321 on Jul 25, 2010 6:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
the guy is owed 12.7 million each of the next two years
no way, and he may be declining too.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
I don't think he is declining at all.
His k and bb numbers this year are awesome and I havnt looked up the numbers but his era seems to be completely based off bad luck.
by Twan54321 on Jul 25, 2010 6:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He was one of the best pitchers in baseball for the last five years.
I do that deal all day.
If he ever pitched for a megamarket team, he’d get tons of attention.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I don't think that would have gotten it done. Skaggs is apparently the key to this deal.
I don’t see how it gets done without Cahill.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
skaggs isn't thaaaaaaaaaat good
Braden Ynoa Ross and Donaldson/Cardenas is better value.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya, that would be a better offer. I wonder whether DiPoto would have preferred it.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Skaggs is not a Cahill caliber guy though
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
No. He isn't. That's why we'd have won the auction.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't even know if you need to give up Cahill to win that auction
I realistically think the A’s could’ve beaten that offer without giving up any of Anderson, Cahill, or Gio.
But then, I really, really think Joe Saunders is awful and about to get kinda expensive.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I'm not sure we have anyone better than Skaggs but worse than Cahill
I guess you could argue for Ross, Ynoa or Krol, but I can see DiPoto preferring Skaggs. I’d take Ynoa.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree
I’d take Skaggs over Ynoa, personally.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I would too
but I would have offered far better tertiary chips.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 26, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
The Angels must have hired that dude who traded up a cell phone into a Porsche on ebay
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Diamondbacks shouldve waited til Hot Stove league
then shopped him to teams that missed on free agent starters.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Sure. Anything but this.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm really not worried about Haren
his second half stats are always worse than his 1st half and he is getting older too.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Whatever, he's still among the best pitchers in baseball
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I lolled. Hard.
Fail.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
On second thought, I really shouldn't have said that.
My bad. I know, not cool.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
sometimes you just gotta lay it out there
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
His second half ERA IS a run higher for his career
But those numbers include when he wasn’t very good with the Cardinals as a 22/23 year old (almost all of his time with them came in the 2nd half of those two seasons).
Also, it’s possible he’s a guy who wears down as a season goes on, but I wouldn’t really put a lot of stock in that (so on with the LOLing).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 5:27 AM PDT up reply actions
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Well said
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
well giffed
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Timeline of my reaction to this deal
When I heard the first sentence of this on the radio today, my reaction was: “Yay! The Angels probably just emptied out their farm system for a rental!”
Then I learned that they gave up Saunders and some other junk for him, and my reaction turned to: “Crap, Angels just got a lot better for free. Now the (already very) long shot that was the A’s division hopes just got even longer, but who cares cause Anaheim won’t catch the Rangers anyway.”
Then I read the internet and learned that Haren’s not a rental at all but is signed through 2013 on a team-friendly contract, and my reaction to that was not printable under the new community guidelines.
This is a ridiculous deal. The people running the Diamondbacks either know that there’s something deeply physically wrong with Haren and didn’t want to deal him in bad faith, or they are huge freaking morons. Can’t really fault the A’s for not getting him though, because who would trade the same guy back to the club that stole all of their prospects in the original deal? Seriously, that deal was ridiculous in itself… six major leaguers for one guy (of varying quality, but still, six major leaguers, at least two of whom are stars). The Diamondbacks are morons.
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
Look at what the Dbacks managed to do here
Through the alchemy of Dan Haren’s flowing locks, they transmuted:
Brett Anderson
Chris Carter
Carlos Gonzales
Greg Smith
Aaron Cunningham
Dana Eveland
…into…
Joe Saunders
Patrick Corbin
Rafael Rodriguez
Tyler Skaggs
Without a single post-season appearance between the trades! Magic!
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Maybe Beane and Forst aren't so bad after all
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone disputed the genius of that move.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
No, but I've questioned Beane's skills in my mind recently.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
oh im kinda at the replace him point to be honest
I think Ive agreed with one move hes (drafting Yordy) made since the blanton deal
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Rosales.
And I liked going after Chapman, Scutaro and Beltre, even if he didn’t get them. I also like the idea of that child from Venezuela, even though I know nothing about him.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Rosales has turned out well but I wasn't a huge fan of the move at the time
he seemed pretty middling. I liked going after Beltre but thought he under bid.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 26, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn't the A's offer Beltre the most money?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 5:31 AM PDT up reply actions
no they didn't
Hell the Boston deal will pay him $4m less in 2 years than the A’s 3 year offer if he makes the option vest with 640 PA and the Phillies offered him the same deal. I would have given him 4/32.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
To be fair, Baltimore got one helluva haul for Bedard that same offseason.
although there was one Bill Bavasi involved.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
They should've thrown in Wirt's leg if they wanted to get to the secret cow level
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
That rivals:
Ryan Sweeney
Gio Gonzalez
Fautino de los Santos
…into…
Wilson Betemit
Jeffrey Marquez
Jhonny Nunez
So, I was reading about Haren during the week
And I thought I read something like the DB’s GM was asking for way too much and that a deal probably wouldn’t get done. Like he was asking for three top prospects. They end up getting a guy (Saunders) who is so lackluster he might not be worth keeping through his arb years, two pitching prospects rated B- and C+, and a 25 year old reliever who doesn’t strike very many guys out in AAA.
So, what the hell happened?
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
by thelincolndude on Jul 25, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Part of me never wants to see GMAC traded
for this exact reason.
And the Swisher stuff as well, because I don’t like the Yankees.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
this is such a bringdown
After a very encouraging win today.
Nostalgically, now Brett has to be my favorite pitcher in baseball. Or Zack Greinke.
Haren was (despite the trade, which was necessary), but you can’t be my favorite pitcher and playing for the dreaded slegnA.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I like Felix Hernandez.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Now I'm going to walk around going "CAMUUUUUUUUUUUS!" while shaking my fist anytime something bad happens
And people will just think I really hate The Plague or something.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 25, 2010 7:41 PM PDT reply actions
Who likes the plague?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 25, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions
too many rats; not enough cats.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Baseball is unbearable.
It drives us to despair, offering us for a minute the glimpse of an eternity that we should like to stretch out over the whole of time.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
This is a dark, dark day.
What the fuck am I going to do with my Haren 24 jersey? Put it in storage until the Angels lose him to free agency? Dude loves the west coast if I remember correctly…he could well be an Angel for the rest of his career.
yeah he went to school at Pepperdine.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 25, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I just try to remember that it's not really his fault
Yeah, I know he had a partial no-trade clause, but it is what it is…
le sigh.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
It's an A's jersey though
It’s still happy days.
And, its not like Haren chose to go the slegnA. Just like Swisher didn’t choose to go to the Yankees.
I still wear my Zito jersey. Even though he chose to go to the Giants.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I subscribe
to the Snakepit and they are a bit miffed and perplexed by this, especially with the ’Backs GM stating how much the new pitchers have “won” in the past. Of course a Slegna fan had to voice in and say how much Saunders was a “gamer”….
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Just play for the name in front of the uniform.." - Dallas Braden
"Oakland is the emotional choice, and could still work, but San Jose really is the best choice." - UncleLeo
he's got the bar exam this week.
poor guy
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Oh yeah. That. I guess it's a wee bit more important.
Still, a fine fanpost, and he should contribute more often when he’s not trying to make a career for himself.
I'm here to talk about the past.
cave, joey, cave.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
good luck!
Took that shite last year. glad to have it in the rearview mirror.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I fear
We could have offered more for Haren, but Haren didn’t want to go back to Oakland. So Beane was never able to present an offer. Just another reason we need a new stadium in San Jose.
I also believe there's some taboo around trading back a player as high-profile as Haren
perhaps because it lends itself to more comparisons between what they gave up for Haren on the front end and what they received on the back.
I realize this is completely illogical- one can make that comparison just as easily in this situation. Just the feeling I get.
Save Rajai Davis
no it isn't illogical. A GM's first job is to keep his job.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 26, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is pointing out one way in which
a trade being a bad trade is not necessarily synonymous with it being an illogical decision for the GM who makes it.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
GMs are judged on perception. Making it easier to show the stupidity of a trade isn't something a GM should do.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
my 'illogical' comment was referring to the idea that
trading with oakland again would make the trade more stupid. i agree with what your saying about perception
Save Rajai Davis
We couldnt have came up with a better deal to get Haren back because...???
by HeavyHitters510 on Jul 26, 2010 7:56 AM PDT reply actions
You could of said this about
26 other teams….keep this in mind.
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
"Just play for the name in front of the uniform.." - Dallas Braden
"Oakland is the emotional choice, and could still work, but San Jose really is the best choice." - UncleLeo
by ST on Jul 26, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Dave Cameron tries to rationalize the Haren deal
to an extent, but this nugget makes you like the A’s/Beane more:
Now, a day after he’s been traded for about the same amount of value as Philadelphia gave up to acquire Joe Blanton two years ago, it’s probably time to ask why.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/why-mlb-teams-arent-big-dan-haren-fans/#comments
Unless you think Cardenas is worth more than Skaggs, Corbin, and Rodriguez combined, it means that Josh Outman is worth more than Joe Saunders.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I'd like A's/Beane even more if they got Haren back for a similar package
The Astros sure don’t feel so good about this trade
100% Athletics, 100% Baseball. 2009 Athletics, 40% Baseball.
by fruitattack on Jul 26, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Because we have money coming off the books, he's an elite pitcher and he makes the rotation flat-out ridiculous
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Disagree with the Elite status you give him
also, We have enough pitching IMO. We need to spend that money on a hitter or hitters. Our pitchers if they stay healthy are plenty good enough and deep enough. Dan Haren INO would have been a waste of good money.
Haren will gets his usual amt of K’s but will also give up lots of hits.
Time will tell. I may be wrong but his ERA in the AL for the remainer of the year will be around 4 at best but like I saidm that’s just my opinion.
wow is this wrong
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Thank You for pointing out that my Opinion (It an opinion only) is wrong
Ask me at the end of the year and If I’m wrong I will apologize. This team needs hitting, the pitching is fine. I do not put Dan Haren up there as elite.
Better hitting will of course aid the young pitchers we have and take some of the pressure off. My opinion is we need to focus on spending money on hitting if we (TPTB) are going to throw that kind of money around
I don't think there is such a thing as "enough" pitching
But, I agree in that I would like to see the team focus on getting some quality hitters.
And it’s been too long since Billy swindled someone, so I’d like to see that happen again soon, too.
Dan Haren is pretty much the definition of elite.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 28, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Injury aside, I think Outman is absolutely better than Joe Saunders
Joe Saunders really isn’t very good at all.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I s acquired him
Joe Saunders sucks but at least hes a starter.
The team needs good hitters. Whether or not they're power hitters is irrelevent. - lenscrafters and many others.
by designatedforassignment on Jul 27, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Joe Saunders is very valuable
… as a trade chip.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Has it collapsed yet, cos I really don't want to go to work tomorrow.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Couldn't have. I'm still he-----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm here to talk about the past.
He has like a million nieces, so if you're on the look out for a female Marquez....
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
You're going to flip when you see Evil Donna in
that black spandex minidress. It’s worth waiting for.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It finally hit me that, not only does this mean watching Danny dressed as evil for the rest of the season,
it means several more seasons of it.
GODDAMMIT.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."
I'm rooting for Haren to pitch really, really well for LOLAnaheim
I can’t root against him. Well, except for when he’s pitching against the A’s, but yeah.
I just want the rest of the team to colossally suck. No playoffs for the slegnA during Haren’s tenure there (or ever). All the luck and beating out Pythagoreas goes away. Finish in third this year (if they lose today, they’re tied with the A’s).
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
The Angels' shiny new toy might be broken.
Just got hit on the wrist by a Youk line drive.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Oh it's horrible! The injustice! The agony!
(snicker) Muahaha…
I think I remember you're a Raider fan, Dan
If so, you’ll understand what I mean when I say I feel as bad about this as I do about Ed McCaffrey breaking his leg on MNF in Sept. 2001.
Which is to say, not very bad at all….
Noooooooooooooo
Not like this. Nuuuuuuuuuuu
Dan Haren:True Athletic
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
Is Haren hurt?
I just saw he was taken out after 4 2/3 innings. I would never wish an injury on someone, especially someone as likable at DH. Yet, there would be something strangely poetic about that.
hit on the pitching arm by a line drive
no news as far as I can tell about how bad it is
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jul 26, 2010 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't imagine it's good.
He looked in serious pain.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
the tough thing is
you wish it for the slegnA, but not for Haren
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jul 26, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey I like Haren just as much as everyone else, and I hate to see him get injured...
But isn’t this totally something that only normally hapen to us, we make a big trade only to have the good player that we aquired get injured IMMEDIATELY!
There is no A in OFFENSE!!
by wacchampions on Jul 26, 2010 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, I don't wish for the slegnA players to get hurt
I just wish for them to suck.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I'm not sure which thing made me angrier.
Seeing a picture of Haren’s face at the top of Halos Heaven, or reading this post.
http://www.halosheaven.com/2010/7/26/1587905/joe-saunders-top-angels-memories
I figure that's mostly: "When he beat the A's in that game."
Arch nemesis.
Oh and the new F-Rod is actually the new Shields. He’s in EVERY game it seems.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'll give it a read when I get back from work.
And to be fair apparently he was crying about the trade – so the love was mutual.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I don't even have to read it to know its going to be vs the A's every time
the only time he’s ever been good is when he plays us.
Haren's face, hands down.
Although, the slegnites on HH reacting to Haren getting injured is golden.
< Youkpuss can go die his ass in a fire and burn the whole city of Boston to the ground in the process. /blockquote>
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
hmmm
104 ERA+ – Ranks 21st – Kirk McCaskill (1,221 IP) and Ken Forsch (633+ IP) also recorded ERA+ of 104
Hey, having your name associated with Kirk McCaskill is no joke ;-)
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 26, 2010 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions
slegnA going nowhere this year
As you all know I am pretty pessimistic at times but I can assure you, they are not winning shit this year.
Our pitchers if they remain healthy are overall better top to bottom than theirs. The big question is can we close the gap on Texas. Gotta beat Cliff Lee tomorrow, that is the biggest hurdle coming up of course. Just got to hope that Gio is not the mental one we see on occasion.
Agreed. The Rangers are the team to beat in the division
Let’s hope the A’s beat them a few times this week.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Halos Heaven right now
is a study in mental illness, highly recommended reading.
Rev has dubbed the Rangers “the Cocaine Cowboys” ROFL
If Haren is really significantly hurt heads may explode over at HH.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 27, 2010 12:13 AM PDT reply actions
Not for the Angels (or 28 other teams)
For an A’s pitcher, that’s a career ending injury.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 27, 2010 5:38 AM PDT up reply actions
but let's be precise as to why
If this were Oakland:
1) Haren’s arm would have actually fallen off
2) The team would label him day to day for a month
3) Rumors would swirl that his recovery was not going as planned
4) After 3 weeks, he’d go on the 15 day DL. Three times.
5) In late September, there would be rumors of Haren’s return.
6) The obituary would come out in October.
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jul 27, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you missed one
3a) Haren throws a bullpen session every week after which he reports “feeling no pain at all”
That's literally the headline on the ESPN baseball front page.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
I've seen a few comments here about coke and the rangers
not front pager-folks, but same idea.
On a different note, read
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/7/27/1589813/lets-forget-that-game-entirely-and
and replace all the references to Mariners & manager, and coaching staff with their A’s equivalent.
Yup, it’s the same thing, different names.
The best headline we could ever wake up to....
“ANGELS COULD BECOME SELLERS”
lololololol
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
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