Deadline Trades A's Should Make (According to ESPN)
by solscreen on Jul 22, 2010 11:34 AM PDT
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PrintThere are a lot of question to where the A's stand at the deadline and if they sell, it doesn't appear they have many trading chips outside of Wuertz and Sheets. On ESPN Insider, Writer Christina Kahrl proposes 5 trades that should happen.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/news/story?id=5400305
According to her, Beane should trade Michael Wuertz and Ben Sheets....
What do you guys think?
Trade #1 Scenario: The Cincinnati Reds shore up their bullpen by acquiring RHP Michael Wuertz from the Oakland Athletics in exchange for OF Chris Heisey and LHP Donnie Joseph
Here's writer Christina Kahrl's rationale: "The A's need an outfielder, and Heisey's a grinder whose value may never be higher after popping five homers during his 10 weeks on the Reds' bench."
Trade #2 Scenario: The St. Louis Cardinals acquire Ben Sheets and cash from the Athletics for 1B/OF Allen Craig and RHP P.J. Walters
Kahrl: "For the A's, it's a matter of adding depth, Walters would stock Triple-A Sacramento or the back of the major league rotation, and Craig would add to Oakland's woeful outfield mix."
Do you guys agree? Would Beane do this? What do you think of the players we would get in return? With the A's only 7 games back and playing hot recently, should the A's just hold onto Wuertz and Sheets?
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I like Craig fwiw
I do not think wuertz could get two players
WTF GEREN?!?!?!
by robbo650 on Jul 22, 2010 11:49 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
For those of you who are not insider subscribers
Kahrl’s article is also in Baseball Prospectus’s free section
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=11554
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I'm a little LOL
That ESPN offer an article in their subscription area that is otherwise offered on the interwebs for free.
Oh, and thanks, sir.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
IF the A's could get these returns
I’d do both trades in a heart beat. The completion of these deals would be win-now moves WHILE building a strong foundation for the future. Heisey would/should immediately be plugged in as a starting OF. Craig would be on the ML bench, getting a decent amount of playing time in the OF. Walters could provide depth in AAA or be plugged into our bullpen, a role he has been used in by the Cardinals. Joseph seems like a high upside arm we can look forward to developing. Though our bullpen would be weakened a bit, the upgrades from starting Heisey and/or Craig over Gross/Watson/Carson would be pretty damn big. On occasion, we could even roll with an OF of Craig/Crisp/Heisey, which would actually give us an OF with gasp some actual power! Make these deals happen Beane!
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Michael Taylor & Conor Jackson
Both of these guys can be added for free.
by Colorado Fan on Jul 22, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Heisey has decent, not great, minor league numbers
He’d certainly be better than half the crap the A’s have, but he’s not exactly a superstar in the making.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Isn't Weurtz better than people we have, too?
I’d keep him. I don’t see any reason for us to trade anybody right now just to juggle a bunch of players around.
Charles Thomas Wooooooooo!!
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
You caught that too, eh?
I interpreted “whose value may never be higher after popping five homers during his 10 weeks” as “he’ll regress back to his mean after we get him”.
Bob Geren... Jackie Moore without the personality.
People keep saying sell high with regard to Wuertz (and Breslow)
But it’s not like these guys have been unusually good. They’re good players! Neither guy is way over performing or anything. It’s not like they’re due to crash and burn (well, all relievers seem prone to that, but I don’t think that’s the point being made).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 22, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh god yes to the Wuertz trade, btw.
Heisey’s an immediate improvement for the A’s.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
this.
would be the best CF not about to die on the roster.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate when she's being lazy
The A’s should trade Wuertz (and all the reasons why Cincy would love him) for an almost 26 year old flash-in-the-pan OF and an A-ball lefty reliever?
Dealing Sheets + $$$ for Craig Allen makes a little more sense but Walters is a long-man in waiting. There should be enough interest out there to find a better package, especially if the A’s are willing to look for prospects in AA or lower.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Am I remembering wrong
or was Craig one of StL’s 3b prospect along with Freese?
Pam liked my old sig better.
I believe so
I guess he didn’t stick at third.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Long time ago
1B/LF type, really belongs at 1B but the Cards are OK at that position for now.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Pssh, speaking of flashes in the pan... I don't think that guy playing there will last.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 22, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Why do you say that?
I agree with you, but want to hear your logic, especially since the Yankees won’t get him.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
I need a little bit more than 10 years of Hall of Fame-caliber play to be sold on a guy.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 22, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Definitely took that the opposite way
as in, he was going somewhere else in FA after 2011 and thus wouldn’t be on the Cards.
fail.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
"Flash-in-the-pan OF"??
Even if you disregard the MLB SSS numbers he has put up, he has the minor league numbers to back up his performance. Last year, between AA and AAA he OPS’d 900 and had 22 homers. He’s crushing MLB pitching so far, and he will regress a bit, but he has been improving every year and there is no reason to think what he has done so far is entirely flukey. Even if taking some regression into account, he would still be our second most powerful hitter behind Cust, and our first true power threat in the OF. It would be a win-now move and a move that will help us in the future. If anyone rejects that trade, its the Reds.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I have to use the bathroom, dude
just sayin.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
cruz was a tools monster who put it together late
fox was a bat without a position, a bad body and no approach
heisey is somewhere in between, some tools but plays above them – i see him as a cody ross type. wouldn’t be a bad player for the a’s to have, but not necessarily the kind they should target given potential redundancy with sweeney, jackson, taylor.
Uh..
Heisey: .825 OPS
Cruz (to age 26): .862 OPS
Take away the stretch at AA last season when Heisey walked at an uncharacteristically high rate, and you’re looking at a career minor league average OPS of .780. The two are light years apart.
by MrMoneyBaller on Jul 22, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't get caught up in his 2009 numbers
He had a wicked-hot half season in AA as a 24 year old. He’s a corner OF who turns 26 in December. If you combined his AAA numbers from ‘09 and now you’d be meh. Karl says it herself:
whose value may never be higher after popping five homers during his 10 weeks on the Reds’ bench
It’s the wrong approach to take if you’re Oakland. Beane shouldn’t be looking to add another guy to the OF mix in 2010, he should be looking for a guy who’ll no doubt take over the damn job in 2012.
The monster at the end of this blog.
you're right
i think the reds reject this deal. sickels gave heisey a B this past offseason, and he’s probably played well enough between aaa (kinda sucky) and the majors (kinda awesome) to warrant keeping that grade.
Agree
Wuertz can help us for the next two years, for cheap. When healthy he’s an elite-level setup guy. If we have any plans to win next year at all there is no reason to trade him, at least not for the minor parts offered in this fake deal.
Craig on the other hand is definitely intriguing, the Sheets deal looks like a good one for the A’s.
I love my Oakland A's
by Philip Christy on Jul 22, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
with what she said.
I’m on the fence with Sheets; it would depend on the package we get in return. I’ll leave that one to Beane. I wouldn’t mind seeing him finish the season in Oakland.
by sf drift king on Jul 23, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm....
Well, seems Beane isn’t really looking to deal anyone, from what I hear. Of course, ya never know when Billy’s just showing you his poker face. Seriously, though, that’s just what I heard, especially in regards to Sheets and Ellis. Take what you want from that and decide fro yourself. Go A’s!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Lazy, indeed
It’s the kind of “insider” content I could probably get on talk radio. Just pointless trades for the A’s.
I say we trade Ellis
he still plays good defense, and has a solid average
a veteran infielder on a contender could be worth a decent prospect
Rosales can take over and would do just fine
For what?
If we are sellers, sure, trade away. But are you giving up on the season? Ellis would not get us much more than prospects while taking away strength from the team on the field. Sure Rosy is a good replacement, but we do need the versatility he brings off the bench.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I am pretty over Ellis at this point
I don’t really know why, I saw him make that great fucking double play on tuesday, which brought so much energy back into the team and the crowd.
And yet I feel he is more valuable to a contender than to the A’s, teams like; Dodgers, White Sox, Padres, Mets
And then there are the Red Sox and Phillies who have injured 2b
Again, for what?
I appreciate that you don’t have feelings for him anymore. But I ask you again, what would you trade him for? Can you make our team stronger by trading him? Ellis is a known entity. I think you get prospects for him, nothing more. Prospects do nothing for our team today, this year. The only real need this team has is an outfielder with pop. Ellis does not get that. I am open to my opinion being shot down with facts, but I just don’t see that happening.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I kind of have this fantasy about the Phils interest in Sheets being real
and sending Sheets plus cash for his contract plus a prospect to the Phillies for Jayson Werth. They’ve been looking to move Werth because they need a spot for Dominic Brown, and he’ll be a free agent after the season.
If you think the A’s have a shot at the West, then you justify giving up a good prospect. Although, if the Phillies think they have a shot in the East this year, then you could send them Ellis too to replace Utley who will still be gone for a month or so.
I've shared this fantasy actually
But then I read the Phillies wanted BJ Upton or Wade Davis for Werth and I’ve kinda come back to reality. It’s not as nice though.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Yeah I had the same fantasy
thats why I went with the idea of moving Gio instead.
I wish we could somehow package Sweeney, Sheets & Ellis for a power hitter.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I had it to, except I was naked and Gwenyth Paltrow was involved
AN: We is all growed up now.
by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Speaking of giving up on the season..
How is this season different from July of 2008 when Beane sold early by trading Harden, Blanton, et al.. when we were only 4 games out of 1st place? This year we’re 8 games out and TX is running away wth the division.
by sf drift king on Jul 23, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
A couple differences
1.) The A’s don’t seem as likely for regression in the second half this year as the return of Anderson and Braden should off set any downturn from Cahill and Gio.
2.) Texas isn’t struggling the way the Angels were a couple of years ago. The ‘08 angels were scuffling in the first half which allowed the A’s to hang around, they ended up taking off in the second half which was fairly predictable.
3.) The biggest difference is the A’s roster situation going forward. Most of the valuable players are young and team controlled for a while and the farm system isn’t nearly as barren as it was a couple years ago so the need to sell isn’t as pressing.
As far as the A’s chances of wining the division I think they aren’t much better than they were two years ago but they don’t have the assets to move. Oh also, kind of nifty adding et al. after Harden and Blanton as if they weren’t the only guys traded at the deadline.
Regression.
The numbers suggest regression should actually make us a little better.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
We were also 8 or 9 games above .500
..and you’re wrong about Anaheim struggling in the 1st half of `08. If they were, then what sense does it make to sell when your team was contending at the time?
The bottom line is we gave up on the season when this team was winning in 2008, which wasn’t a good msg to send to your players at the time. We weren’t expected to be in contention that year and surprised the naysayers by competing, yet Billy pulled the plug. I’m usu on board with the moves Billy makes, but not that one.
by sf drift king on Jul 23, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the real bottom line is that the Angels won 100 games that year
The A’s had no chance of keeping up. There is no way the A’s had a chance to compete with a 100 wins in 2008 so the only intelligent move was to trade expiring players and get prospects back. Those were smart trades and smart fans understand that.
I would prefer to keep Wuertz, thank you
I think we have outfield help in the way in Taylor. I would rather see us keep our pen intact and promote Taylor than trade away Wuertz.
Sheets can go, I am cool with that.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
My idea
I know its not going to be popular, but I think we should trade Gio Gonzalez for Jayson Werth and 2 draft picks. We are 7 games out, just like the Phillies and Boston, and neither of those teams are in sell-mode. We are heating up and are about to get BA back and have just gotten 07 vintage Cust back.
Gio is pretty good, but he’d be excellent in the NL, and the Phils dont have to take on money or give up prospects. If we gun for it, we lose a few rungs on the draft ladder, but get them back when Werth leaves for FA. If we arent satisfied with our internal options (dont forget Outman), then we can just sign another 1 year deal with a SP. Gio’s got great stuff, but Id trade him for a run at the AL West. You just know the Rangers will start cooling down when playing all those games in the heat takes their toll.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I don't think that is too far fetched, however
harken back to the days of the Big 3, Hudson Mulder Zito. We have something amazing right now in Anderson Cahill and Gio. Teams would KILL to have those three and the upside for those three is still not realized. We have the nucleus to be awesome for several years if we keep them intact. I would not trade that away for the hope that we might catch Texas, who looks pretty tough right at the moment.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Good points
I think re-upping the system right now is important. I cant stop being so jealous of the Rays right now, think about this: if they get Werth, they will have 7 out of the first 60 draft picks. Thats absurdly good Front Officing.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
It's not the NFL. Draft position doesn't matter (unless it's #1).
You’ve just got to be willing to throw money at people.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I remember when the A's had 7 out of the first 40 draft picks.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Not so much Absurdly good Front officing
so much as absurdly dumb lucky Front officing. It’s not like it’s some skill to get several players you’re about to lose at the same time. In most cases, you have to have guys already in the system to lose and it just happens that way.
Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples
Oh for heaven's sake, no.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 22, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Are you really happy with our SP depth in the minors?
I’m not.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I'm not.
And if you’re not, why would you want to trade Gio for Werth?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 22, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
turn it green
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
yah
Don’t like the idea of risking a lower draft pick next year…
100% Athletics, 100% Baseball. 2009 Athletics, 40% Baseball.
If you're trading Gio, does that mean you hang on to Sheets?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Allen Craig seems a lot like Jake Fox, except that he can't catch (or at least he can catch even less than Fox can).
I think the A’s could probably do better.
Neither of these deals seem all that intersting to me
Not that they are unfair but guys like Heisey and Craig seem like more of the same, loading up on average-ish corner outfielders. Kind of reminds me of the Conor Jackson trade only now we’re giving away actual major league pitchers who seem to actually have some demand. I guess at least Heisey and Craig appear to be healthy which would be a short term upgrade over Jackson and Sweeney but I don’t think they push the A’s into contention this year and that just leaves us with a massive overload of meh in the outfield next year.
I don’t know, both of these deals strike me as trades made simply for the sake of trading.
I wouldn't do either trade.
Hold on to both guys unless something interesting comes along. I’m perfectly fine not trading either; it’d make for an interesting second half, and from what I’ve heard so far, the return just won’t be worth it.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
about ben sheets...
“If you call on him, you’d better be ready to make a deal, because they’re ready,” said an exec of one team. “If you’re just kicking tires, don’t call. And if you do call, you’d better know you want him, and you’d better know definitively what you’re going to give up because they’ve done their homework, and they know exactly what they want.”
i like!
That quote is a few days old
The very next day Olney and Rosenthal made a point of saying the A’s want to keep Sheets because the return is going to be crappy (re: teams are put off by the drop in velocity).
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
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