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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

Time For A Shift: A Clearer Stand On Profanity, Lewdness

Being a "blogfather" is a lot like being an umpire. No matter what you do, 50% of the people will hate you -- unless you're really fair, in which case probably 100% of the people will not like you. So my goal today is for 100% of you not to like me as I endeavor to be fair, even if not entirely popular, with all.

I have decided, with the input of AN's moderators, to institute some clear and specific rules on what -- or perhaps more "where" -- is and isn't acceptable on AN in regards to profanity and lewdness, understanding that part of what we have to balance is that AN is unmistakably, all at the same time, a community, a social network, a baseball blog, a gathering place, a business, and a much-read site that is in the public eye, and while it is not easy to make AN a place that can work for everyone it is our obligation to try hard and then try harder.

Hopefully, those adamantly opposed to rules/censorship will notice how far I've tried to bend in the direction of preserving a high degree of freedom. This is in spite of the fact that I get a LOT of private complaints and am well aware that AN's penchant for raunchy discourse has driven away more than a few readers.

So take a deep breath, jump, and help me usher in some tweaks to discourse on AN...

Star-divide

Overarching Golden Rule: The community seems to pretty much unanimously agree that extreme lewdness, such as naked photos or images of sex acts, and that "repeated gratuitous profanity and explicitly obscene descriptions," as well as just excessive and/or constant swearing, should not be acceptable anywhere on AN. That has been in the regular Community Guidelines since early May and will continue to supersede the new guidelines below. So when you read "anything goes," it really means "anything goes (except for violations of the overarching golden rule...)"

CT Threads: "Anything goes" -- no restrictions on language, content, or images. The community can self-police CT threads however it wants but outside of "golden rule" violations, nothing will be subject to CGVs or sanctions, and if readers do not care for profanity, crass innuendo, or risqué images they should simply stay out of the CT threads.

Game Threads & DLDs: "Anything goes" on topics, content, and language. The community can self-police DLDs and game threads however it wants, but outside of "golden rule" violations, nothing will be subject to CGVs or sanctions -- except for a specific provision that edgy images must be posted as links, not posted as images, for the security of readers who log on at work and can't afford for edgy photos or images to pop up on the screen. If readers do not care for profanity, crass innuendo, or off-topic discussion, they should simply stay out of the game threads and DLDs.

Game Recaps, Front Page Posts & All Non DLD Fanposts:

* In game recaps, front page posts, and non DLD fanposts, it is acceptable to use an expletive only if you use asterisks/symbols instead of typing the word out fully, e.g., "f***" or "bulls**t" or "F%$#@!!!" or if you use abbreviations, e.g., "WTF?" or "STFU!" This way, readers can viscerally express the emotion of swearing without actually putting cuss words in front of readers who don't like it.

* In game recaps, front page posts, and non DLD fanposts, all other forms of profanity are not ok.

* In game recaps, front page posts, and non DLD fanposts, all lewdness ("speaking in an obscene manner") is not ok. This includes graphic sex talk, edgy photos or images, and any discourse that an average reasonable person would likely find offensive or uncomfortable. This is inherently subjective, so a good rule of thumb is: If in doubt, tone it down a notch.

This balance should allow some members of the community to have not one, not two, but three daily places that can be pretty much as uncensored and full of "insider banter" as they please, while also allowing other members of the community a front page (game threads excepted), and numerous fanposts, that are reliably suitable for readers of all ages, backgrounds, and sensibilities.

Whether you agree, disagree, or don't care about these new parameters, I hope they are clear because I think my biggest obligation to everyone, when establishing rules, norms, and expectations, is to provide clarity. I also hope this is seen as a reasonable compromise and that the community can appreciate how difficult -- but also how important -- it is to try to be responsive to the wants and needs of everyone. And on AN, everyone is a lot of people.

For easy reference, the new rules have been added to the Community Guidelines, where they currently appear in blockquotes at the beginning of the CGs.

And go A's.

Comment 1329 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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seems pretty liberal

Also, old fav that meets your acronym rules: SNAFU.

by JetSam on Jul 22, 2010 10:11 AM PDT reply actions  

Really? were going to be the potty mouth police?

Can I at least say fuck in my own threads?

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 AM PDT reply actions   5 recs

Flagged!

Or at least it should be, if I’m reading the new rules correctly….not that I personally care much.

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 22, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is just another example...

…of you using this web site as your own personal playground. Tottaly uncalled for even if it was meant to be funny.

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 22, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

punctuation

Can I at least, say, f*** in my own threads?

(Wait, does that count as innuendo even with the asterisks?)

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

if i type g%$?*#x can you still tell i’m saying “grawlix?”

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

you know, I know you're considered a PITA by some people,

and you dig being contrarian, but I love you.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Some people"?

“Some people”? Who do you mean, LB??

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

you, mainly.

gif hater.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, I'm just going to go out of my way now...

….to use logic streams that make nico, dfa & mikev swear at me :)

-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.

by PL78 on Jul 22, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm rec'ing that

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was a serious question

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe the answer is

Yes if you label it “DLD”. Otherwise no.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Labeling it DLD is not an option for DFA if he wants to actually have on-topic discussions in his threads

If you want substantive conversation but don’t care at all about the form it takes, this is not helpful.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are politics and religion, and personal insults still part of the "golden rule" list?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 10:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Yes. The other CGV's remain the same

thanks for clarifying. :-)

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jul 22, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, good

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, good, but what about...

quim
who-ha
taint
barse
balsanus
bippy
“down there”
crank one off
aw shucks
for the love of Michael
frig
quif
queeb
bristols
bollacks
barn door
bop your bologna
wank
whack off
whiskers
sticky wicket
“Hey, sugartits!”

by Mark H on Jul 22, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

emperor's elaboration

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist and manufactures erroneous and reactive thoughts about this post, I thought I’d make sure — as one of the more “anything goes” mods — I would chime in and have Nico’s back.

This is an issue of responsibility, both at the personal level and at the level of community. In the cocoon of AN, where so many of us are friends in “real life” and feel totally safe and familiar here, it’s very easy to forget that this isn’t just our own personal clubhouse to say whatever we want in whatever language we deem appropriate. In our rush and comfort to participate, it can be easy to forget that AN is now one of — if not THE — most popular non-political blogs on the entire internet, with literally thousands of visitors a day… not all or even most of which are the mods, posters and commentator/contributors with whom we are all familiar and to whom we would feel (and rightfully so) that we could say anything in any terms, no matter how playfully crude.

I am taking the lead in the comments here because I am probably the guiltiest of the front page writers when it comes to posting questionable material, as well as the “moderator” most apt to let fly with a torrent of curse words whenever Bob Geren pinch hits for the 3, 4 and 5 hitters with the sacks juiced (see? listen to me with my sacks juiced and we’re only in paragraph #3 here) and down a run in extra innings. So I feel I should take responsibility and try to put things in a broader context so this doesn’t just seem like an attempt at Nannying AN, which it is most decidedly NOT an attempt to do by our Blogfather.

The truth is that digital media have to grow up: the Beavis & Butthead mentality — somewhere between a frat house and the men’s room at the Coliseum — only goes so far and tends to feed the image of blogs as Juvenile Outlets of Questionable Content, which itself only serves (rightly or wrongly) to hold back the ascent of the new media to what I feel will eventually be its rightful and legitimate place in the mainstream of the coverage of things. As you’ve heard Chris Townsend say many times, before he found this place he assumed that AN was like the vast preponderance of blogs out there that attacks players and their families, talks a ton of unfounded smack about the team it’s covering and generally makes a negative spectacle of itself… a view we all know was as ill-conceived as a Daric Barton bunt attempt in the bottom of the first with Rajai Davis on second. Thankfully, after months spent integrating AN with his previous general view of blogs, CT has come to adore and accept us here, but I can assure you that his previously-held attitude is still often the prevalent one when it comes to outsiders’ views of what blogs are and what they do.

The bottom line (or, if you prefer, BOTTOM LINE!) is that for approximately 197,219,731,197,419,892,011 different reasons, we here are among the leaders of digital media in the world: no joke. Especially among the non-political sites — which are in a sense easier to discount because they often carry with them a pronounced ideological agenda and a contentual slant to match — we are at the forefront of redefining what blogs are and can be in a mediaverse that is changing and evolving at an extremely fast pace. Like it or not — and you/we should all be very proud of what AN is and has achieved — we get a tremendous, almost unprecedented amount of traffic and again, in the words of my pal CT, we have become and for all intents and purposes are the best and most comprehensive site about the Oakland Athletics to be found on the web, surpassing by a large margin even the official site of the franchise itself.

The point, such as it is, is that with such gravitas comes responsibility: responsibility to evolve our caliber of discourse in a manner commensurate with our position of undeniable influence. In recent times it’s begun to get back to the people that run this thing that there are a lot of folks — both new visitors and old friends — who have come to feel excluded and in a sense put off by what they see and feel as a less respectful, more gratuitously funky sort of discourse on AN, particularly in the Game Threads which are arguably the centerpiece of what we do here.

Now, no one is really saying that we have lost our way. As I said, never before has this blog (or any non-political blog, really) enjoyed such a tremendous sphere of influence and cache among even the denizens of established media. This should be clear, if only from the idea that when we have a tailgate in the Coliseum parking lot, mainstream media types like Susan Slusser and the aforementioned host of A’s Talk are often there hanging out with us. Chris himself has told me that his bosses at the radio station read this thing cover-to-cover, including every single comment, on a daily basis… as well they should, as this is the Numero Uno outpost of substantive and informed material of, by and for the Athletics’ fanbase that exists in the world today. When you saw Brodie Brazil from CSN come on and essentially ask all of us exactly what the TV postgame show should look like, there was a reason for that, and the reason is that this blog has become THE oasis in the desert as far as A’s content.

So we are at a crossroads: how do we retain the flavor (admittedly super-spicy) that made and continues to make this place what it is without driving away the potential readers and contributors that might someday make it what it CAN become, which is something as yet unestablished by digital media but is nonetheless within our grasp as a community because we are JUST THAT AWESOME? What we’re trying to say isn’t “Don’t curse!” or “Watch what you say!” so much as it is a request to begin to consider what we are saying and how we are saying it in a broader and more inclusive context than digital media previously felt possible or necessary. This will help to ensure that people will not be driven away and that the stereotype of digimedia in general and blogs in particular will not continue to be perpetuated by Athletics Nation, which has established itself in the vanguard of these outlets and can, if it takes responsibility for itself at a higher and more self-considerate level, continue to grow into the leadership role that awaits it in the Future of All Media that is in the process of coalescing into what it will be.

The message is: don’t feel infantilized. Feel empowered, because you are… in ways that are at the forefront of shaping what sites like this can be in the future whether we are aware in the moment of such possibilities or not.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 10:26 AM PDT reply actions   5 recs

Is it maybe time to admit

that the original purpose of SBN — which, IIRC, was to create an online sports-bar (or set of sports bars) for fans all over the interwebs — has kind of been passed by, or possibly subsumed?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

No. AN was created to be an online sports bar.

SBN was created for a completely different reason.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

And in a bar, the bartender is allowed- and some may say obligated- to ensure a comfortable environment for every customer, not just a few.

In fact there’s a sign on my office door (for future use):

Never but never question the bartender’s judgement.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not to stretch this analogy past the breaking point...

but I’m not entirely clear that this is about the bar’s customers. It sounds more like this is about reporters using the bar’s booths as workstations, and the bartender telling the bar’s customers to keep it down so the reporters can write their stories.

But maybe it’s really a “accommodating regulars vs. welcoming newcomers” thing. I don’t look at traffic data, or know who’s written what to whom, so I can’t say.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Valid, Nick.

But in my mind anyway it is about accomodating and welcoming.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see it that way at all.

I think all the talk about reporters coming to visit is EN’s own issue. He loves the whole media game. That’s fine, but I don’t think it’s what motivates this move.

I see this as purely about the community and attempting to keep AN a welcoming place for all. The reporters will follow the traffic regardless. They go in locker rooms, for heaven’s sake, it’s not like they’re squeamish.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

That may be EN's own issue, as you say

On the other hand, Nico introduced this by saying…

understanding that part of what we have to balance is that AN is unmistakably, all at the same time, a community, a social network, a baseball blog, a gathering place, a business, and a much-read site that is in the public eye, and while it is not easy to make AN a place that can work for everyone it is our obligation to try hard and then try harder.

which goes back to my original comment, that it might be time to admit that the notion of SBN or AN as “an online sports bar” has been passed by. That’s not weird, or a matter of conspiracy — things change and evolve, and if AN has exapted to become a significant media resource (as well as a big business), then that’s what it is at present. We certainly enjoy the upside of that state of affairs (such as Don’s interview with Reggie).

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I done learned something

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

but they don’t let kids into bars…

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

True enough

Still, that was Blez’s description of the genesis of AN, at any rate.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I still like to think of all of these sites

as sports bars, but if someone is causing a disruption in a sports bar, talking loudly and spewing out profanity every other word, they’re likely to get kicked out. Most bars will have policies that make it so you don’t scare away all the customers. Unless it’s the Bada Bing.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 22, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

They they'll go elsewhere.

And if they find there’s just as much rule, or more, elsewhere, or if they find they miss the place, they’ll come back. The thing about AN is that it’s actually incredibly lenient and self-policing overall.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's just bad business turning away loyal customers

They’re the one’s you can depend and plan on when it comes to covering your costs. In a real world sense, one some level that’s what the A’s are dealing with now. They’re only lucking on the reality that in some cases loyalty trumps their turn off for how they’re being pushed away. But either way, it’s a bad long term business plan.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, if the worst thing we're doing to our "loyal customers"

is to ask for less profanity and lewd language in our business establishment, I think we’re doing ok by them. It’s just not a lot to ask.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Less, sure.

To stop or to stop being you?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't follow that, sorry.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just saying there's a difference between

Asking a group of customers to keep it or toning it down vs. asking them to stop completely.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, well this post hardly asked them to stop completely

In fact, it said “do it in any of 3 popular venues to your heart’s content and heck, you can even do it everywhere else in some form.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I also thought SBN was originally supposed to be a "set of sports bars," as Nick put it.

AN was just the first. So if it was supposed to come to this all along, then AN wasn’t really created to be a sports bar, either.

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

It miht have been created that way but perhaps is morphing into something else - kind of like having many rooms in the house

there’s some where you can put your feet up on the furniture and some where you shouldn’t. We’ll just have to be thinking about which room is which!

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's no "perhaps" Jo.

It’s quite obviously in the process of changing.

The Yahoo partnership, the restriction on titles of recaps because of the Yahoo content, the SBN stuff, the cross advertising for SBN that’s pushing actual AN content farther down the page, sponsored posts, etc.

now I expect someone to come back and say that’s all untrue, but… it’s just what it is.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is obviously thoughtful

Though it seems to me that you’re taking a lot of words to say that in going backward (it terms of what’s become allowable in terms of language throughout the media) we’re going forward (taking up our responsibility as a a major media player).

Do you really want to be a major media player? Isn’t that a little self serious and self defeating, given that this is a sports site to dish about and discuss a particular team?

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Unless Nico has been elected

to the vice presidency during my hiatus, then no, it’s not censorship. It’s business. There’s a difference.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Now, if you’ll excuse me I have a fanciful world complete with unicorns, rainbows, and lucky charms to prance around in.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I've had worries about 'growing up' on blogs raising kids

at what point am I OK with my kids reading & contributing to AN or other blogs.
It’s a rough world out there, and we can’t pad the universe.
But it doesn’t have to be a sewer either.
But it’s not like I refrain from swearing at work & online either.

And there is a place for Bevis & Butthead, and Barney as well.

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, cool

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

heh heh heh

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I couldn’t get past sacks juiced. I hope the rest of this post wasn’t that important.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

This all seems reasonable to me....but I do have one question.

These new rules seem fine to me. Perhaps a tad more restrictive than I might like outside of CT Threads, DLD, and Game Threads, but then again almost all of my AN activity is in Game Threads, so this doesn’t affect me much.

But I did have one question. Is the..

specific provision that edgy images must be posted as links, not posted as images, for the security of readers who log on at work and can’t afford for edgy photos or images to pop up on the screen

…a new rule or simply a restatement of an old one?

That is, is this a new restriction on Game Threads or just what we’ve always done: respecting the fact that images need to be safe for work (and reasonably sized)?

And if this is a new restriction, what precisely counts as “edgy”?

Thanks for any clarifications you can offer, Your Blogfatherness!

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 22, 2010 10:29 AM PDT reply actions  

I think one of the difficulties with this

is that this is a site about sports for the fans of a particular team. Swearing is often pretty inherent in such discussions.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 10:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Understood...

I would think that the bulk of the swearing takes place in game threads as a reaction to events. Does that make sense? I’m not even a huge cusser, but if I were to swear, it would be only after a bad play/call/incident off the cuff in real time. I think for the other threads, they allow for a measured response and time to correct or edit a passionate response.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jul 22, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Swear

What is meant by “swear”? Is “pissed off” a swear? How about “bullshit”?

Censorship is censorship. I can understand community standards in regard to posting lewd material, or insulting other individuals…but removing three or four words from the conversation in order to conform to some 1950s ideal?

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure

Fans get pretty animated in talking about players, front office decisions, memories of painful losses, and more.

I mean if someone’s doing a front-page thread on a slow day about the most painful moments in A’s history, i don’t know how I don’t swear about Byrnes not touching home plate, but still finding the time to nurse his injury and shove Veritek.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can understand maintaining decorum in a front-page thread

But the moment you click on a link, ANY link, then some of that should go away. Especially because cursing in the context of a game or in a discussion about Bob Geren should be absolutely permitted.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments

This means that certain “profanities” are subject to censorship and flagging, to wit, George Carlin’s seven dirty words?

I disagree and protest very very strongly in that regard. This isn’t radio — and radio is borderline in that area as well. I can understand no profanity in front page articles, but in comments? That’s very bad news.

George Carlin’s seven dirty words are: Shit, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, piss and tits.

We’ve gone through this at Pacifica Radio, and I’ve had to censor out words, though this has changed over time. For a while, you couldn’t say “crap” and you could say “screw” in the context of a screwdriver but not in a sexual context.

Nico, if this is your intention, it’s absolutely wrong-headed.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 10:44 AM PDT reply actions  

You're moving in very dangerous waters

..when you go for censorship of the sort where a common expletive like “fuck” must be spelled out as f**k, or as I would do it, frak (using Battlestar: Galactica terminology). Sorry, this is 1950s bullshit. (and is “bullshit” permissible? How about bull-feces?

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

AN already has policies against other bad words

N*, possibly F*, and general racial and sexual derogatory words. (and content as well, can’t avoid it by merely *’ing out the badness)

I can understand the impulse to make AN less vulgar. The question for the moderators is how to achieve this. Stricter rules are pretty heavy handed, so I wonder if there is a gentler way to achieve their goals.

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with mikev

I know, a surprise, huh?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

MUST. HAVE. BOOBIES

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will have two please

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait.

Does that mean that Pam is now banned?!

I am out of here

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

pam

nicest rack of AN

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

+2

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree with you.

I don’t really see the point in censoring just to censor.

by MrMoneyBaller on Jul 22, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

But I also don't see the point in cussing just to cuss.

{head explodes from contradicting myself all day}

Or maybe I’m just seeing both sides.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

you need a beer

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm a good nephew

remember me in the will

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Want to meet somewhere after work?

Say…Nevada

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

{closes shop}

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

pick me up!

can we git women too?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

{borrows a Cessna from Cessna}

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would agree with you there too.

And I see both sides of the argument. But isn’t the problem what someone is saying, not how? Generally speaking, it’s going to have to be pretty egregious for it to constitute being offensive just for language, and in that case, it’s probably best just to keep the commenter accountable for their intent, not specifically what words they used.

by MrMoneyBaller on Jul 22, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

This all seems fair to me and it just drives the point home that there are 2 AN's

and the part that is more baseball focused should have certain rules although I often find that the arguments in the baseball posts are more personal and heated.

As far as the game threads I’d hate to think I might be driving people away as I’m only trying to have fun and nothing I post should be taken seriously as it’s just the first goofy thing that pops in my head.

I really enjoy this site and I hope more people who read it join the fray and make the site even better.

by sirbed on Jul 22, 2010 10:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Exactly right

The problem we’re running into is that we have to balance the professional AN with the AN nightlife, and if we know that we can point or link to threads and know they are relatively “clean” (for lack of a better word), it will help.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jul 22, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Two ANs?

They both sound pretty creepy to me in this distinction. “Professional AN” sounds corporate. “AN Nightlife” sounds sleazy.

Can’t their just be a single AN that applies reasonable rules to both the posts and the comment threads?

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

AN After Dark

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's the CT threads

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stupid CT threads.

I’m annoyed that After Dark has been lumped in with sports radio.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

You have only yourself to blame.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Completely agree with this Nico!

I know some don’t like it, but I think we do have to remember that this site is much easier to find from more “mainstream” sites (e.g. Yahoo! game recaps). Therefore, the profanity and innuendo should be relegated to areas more common with regular users.

AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.

by stranahanahan on Jul 22, 2010 10:53 AM PDT reply actions  

...which would be in the comment threads

Censorship in the comment threads? Stinks.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Have to agree here

Why go to the comment threads? Makes little sense.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously though, look at the rules on some of the other SN Nation sites

Those on AN are still much more liberal than some of the rest, and we get more traffic than most of them, nonetheless!

AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.

by stranahanahan on Jul 22, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

SB*

AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.

by stranahanahan on Jul 22, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is an important point.

To look at some of the rules on other sites. There’s one that- if we were to apply it here- would not allow us to say “Spankees” or “Red Sux”. They can only use real names for teams. Seriously.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is the bay area, and I think, a smarter group of people

Also a group of people who are generally more sensitive to issues involving race and gender. I don’t think those kinds of rules are necessary here.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

agrd.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

oops

I was agreeing to his last sentence (in terms of certain rules being necessary here).

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

With that, I will heartily agree. The Bay Area maintains no monopoly on social intelligence.

I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing Matt Cain.

by TheLetter2 on Jul 22, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nor is it free of social non-intelligence

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

It all depends on whose ox is being gored.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well yeah.

I think I just responded to one.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are.

What I think was the original intention was the history of the Bay Area regarding diversity and civil rights (esp. Berkeley and SF) which has had an effect on the people who have grown up, worked or moved here.

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

While that may be true

I personally don’t care what the other SBN sites do. I think AN should stay true, as much as possible, to it’s original purpose as an online sportsbar.

by ksinha on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone is denying that.

The question is whether or not we need the vulgarity to still be an online sports bar. I think we can get by with restricting it to “the back room.”

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

The back room.

In case you all haven’t noticed, the CT thread has reduced- by a ton- the amount of comments in the recap. But now most of those comments in the recap are baseball related. Hence the point of the CT thread.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

i.e.

to put a leash on a dog like me =)

woof

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

(and sometimes me)

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

the looks that you give

alone say way more then I ever could in writing

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

This site as always been censored.

That’s nothing new.

Read the CGs.

These are changes to the censorship regime.

I happen to think these changes are reasonable. Others might not.

But this is an argument over the shape and extent of censorship not over whether or not to introduce censorship.

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 22, 2010 10:57 AM PDT reply actions  

Erp..."HAS always been censored."

I should learn to use the **********ing preview button!

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 22, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

There are two kinds of censorship here

One pretty much eliminates certain kinds of discussion, i.e. political - because this is a baseball site. There are exceptions…it’s impossible to talk about the new stadium without getting political, and there are certain political allusions which can be made, as long as it’s clear they’re non-partisan.

The sexual stuff, again, it’s not about baseball.

Courtesy is courtesy as well.

But censorship of actual words is something else again. It’s a different kettle of fish, particularly the use of two words, “fuck” and “shit.” Though you can throw in religious expletives as well… is “Jesus Christ” okay, or how about "Goddammit, " Is “Damn” okay? I mean, it was perfectly fine in 1939.

The idea of censoring expletives is bullshit. I’ll say it again.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

My opinion regarding reacting in a juvenille fashion

is to complain about being asked to refrain from using certain words. Do you not employ the same logic when refraining from using racial slurs to describe someone? I really don’t mean to troll, but I would like to see your response to these newly clarified suggestions that grow further away from whining because you were being shushed in a library.

Honestly, are your rights being impeded here? Why is it so difficult to choose to use different words?

"Whether they find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet." - Jack Handey

by bluthbanana20 on Jul 22, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Because using a different word in this case is absurd.

If write “f*ck”, is there anyone who doesn’t know that I’m actually writing “fuck”? No. So why should I or anyone need to replace that “u” for “*”? That to me doesn’t make sense. That’s not the same as not using “n*” or “f*” or anything specifically derogatory. We’re not in a library, we’re in a “sports bar” being asked to hide letters in a puzzle for wheel of fortune a 5 year old kid could solve and giggle at.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If your objection is that there's no difference,

then why not just do it?

If there’s no difference, then using the asterisk is an extremely simple way to satisfy others without crimping your style one bit.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe the objection is better stated as "it's really obnoxious and stupid" rather than "there's no difference"

Perhaps he fancies his style as one that avoids obnoxious stupidity.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The only difference is that I'm being asked to change the way I think (i.e. use the asterisk)

while “censoring” myself to accommodate others. Having to change the way I type crimps my style. It makes the flow of what I’m typing and editing different as well. Now, in many cases I do so willingly. But in all those cases, it makes sense to do so. In this case, if the end result is the same (i.e. everyone knows exactly what once I’m saying) then how is that helping anyone? I’m being asked to change my ways without changing the result of what I do which is just asinine to me. It’s the equalivent of someone seeing a macro or program I’ve written and saying “hey, you know what. I know that macro works and is really useful, but I want you to do it all by hand, 1000 times, just because your macro is aesthetically displeasing to me.”

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I see your point.

If someone is offended by the word “fuck,” they’re probably gonna be offended by seeing “f**k:” too.

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or "FCUK," like OptimistPrime just said, downthread.

I’m dyslexic, so his effort there didn’t protect me at all.

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am lickdexic so your pointing that out offends me

{I jest}

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can we still use the kRaZeE bAnNiNg WaNd?

Maybe not, if my Bad Grammar Flag idea goes through. Darn it to heck.

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are just screwed

and by screwed I mean F*$’ed

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

fused?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Precisely

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yet, apparently, they are not.

So why not be pleased by their easiness?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only if you can reframe from using big words.

Appease me, I’ll appease you. Tit for tat. But in all seriousness, take, take, take. That’s all I’m seeing really. And no, it’s not a “huge” thing. But why not wait for a huge thing to start asking for concessions instead of buckling towards people who are sweating the small stuff? These people seem to be silent here. The only people I see speaking up are people who are simply willing to give in, not people who are “hurt” by it. So why should the community change for people who aren’t willing to step up and speak for themselves? Should we allow trolls to dictate policy too?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll appease you if you appease me.

Wait, is that still allowed?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

no

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

shucks.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

good word

keep using it

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess I'm a glass-half-full guy.

It seems like such a trivial request, that I view it as a great opportunity: If I can make the prudes happy without having to make any real sacrifice, then I leap at that opportunity.

I feel the same way about leaving the toilet seat down. I think it’s trivial, and I think it’s absurd to pretend, as some women do, that the down position is somehow more metaphysically pleasing to the universe than the up position. But if I can score points with the woman in my life just by doing something so simple and trivial, then that’s a bonus. Sure beats working.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

In our house (apartment),

we all have to remember to put the toilet lid down, since one of our cats likes to fish and he’ll drop toys into the toilet in order to fish them out.

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd be tempted to not flush in that instance.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

LOL

and agree

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Down makes sense to me

Simply because if you’re in a hurry, if it’s down, you’re not going to fall in, she might. I think prudes in general are repressive and uninviting as a general belief (not a rule, but in general). But I’m also a major creature of habit so asking me to change repetition is in no way a small act. If someone asks me polite to curtail it a bit (my brother) I certainly put in the effort. But if it fits or slips out, I’m entirely unapologetic about it.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love your screenname.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

disregard

I saw a more detailed post further downstream that clarifies your stance more. I still apologize for my aggressive tone

"Whether they find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet." - Jack Handey

by bluthbanana20 on Jul 22, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cripes, but you're reasonable

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

and s/he has a really good screenname, Joey.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's money in that screenname

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

winkwink

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

there was too much innuendo in that winking

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

f***!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

(runs "Cripes" through the profanity test machine.....)

{zzzzzzzzzoooomp.}
You’re safe this time, Joey. But I’m still keeping an eye on you…..

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to worry, boss!

I sneak away to do all my real swearing amongst the proles.

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

In the past the problem has been excessive usage of those words

I don’t see a problem sticking to that standard instead of everyone who would use them having to use a different key stroke just so that everyone doesn’t see a single letter that everyone who looks at it knows you’re actually using. Seems a bit unnecessary.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Like the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk

admission is free on AN. My memory may not cooperate but my heart sure plans on doing so. Basically if I want to exercise my freedom then I will just stay in Game Threads and CT Threads.

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm not totally behind this either

But here’s the idea: a user should only swear to emphasize a very strong point in rational argument. I know a lot of you have strong opinions a lot of the time but apparently there’s been quite a few complaints. I suggested this thought experiment that each user should get only an allotted number of curse words per month. This makes it an exercise in word choice rather than censorship. Keep your five fucks for when you feel they’re absolutely necessary. Or go to the game thread and say them there.

I must say I hardly ever venture into game threads or CT threads not only because of the sheer volume, but also the lack of content and rampant innuendo. Swearing doesn’t bother me. I’ve been on the site a long time, but even I get turned off by some of the flirting, stories, etc.

This whole rule scares me mainly because of the swearing. I think only the most severe of cases really needs to be toned down and I hope such censorship doesn’t change this site.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jul 22, 2010 11:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Voluntary guidelines in terms of swearing? Sure

A request to keep swearing down to a minimum? No problem. A request to watch your words? No problem.

Enforcement of swearing, decisions on which swear words are verboten? BIG PROBLEM.

What bothers me, really bothers me, is how many people here are simply acquiescing. Just as many on-line people don’t understand the dangers of privacy invasion, they don’t understand the dangers of censorship…because it isn’t just censorship, it’s self-censorship in the name of fear. That was the strength of McCarthyism, that was the strength of censorship in the Soviet Union. That was the strength of anti-gay opprobrium in the 1950s, as EN should perhaps be aware. Maybe I can set up a meeting between emperornobody and my friend, Harvey Milk’s former speechwriter, and he can understand a little bit about what life was like before Stonewall when certain other kinds of censorship were in vogue.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   5 recs

Acquiescing, I think, would involve people actively flagging based on the new rules

Flagging CGVs has always been very, very spotty on AN, as far as I can tell. It remains to be seen how enthusiastic actual ANers are about enforcing the new guidelines.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, the flagging system is very community based.

Community enforcement.

The rules are there, and you should follow them, but the strength and rigor of enforcement is ultimately left up to the community, since despite how awesome the mods are, they have live and can’t look at every comment on something as massive as AN. The community determines how rigorously laws should be enforced, not some overarching body.

"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis

by Blicks on Jul 22, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

*have lives

"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis

by Blicks on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

+1

This is a really good observation into how ‘law’ and its enforcement are emergent by thiose being governed by thaw ‘law’ and its enforcement.

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 22, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, let's....

Because there are slippery slopes, and this is a very slippery one.

The motivation - protect the children, don’t offend - remains pretty constant.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, the idea of immediately going for a law, instead of asking adults to be circumspect

Is a sign of heavy-handedness that goes beyond simply talking about a sports blog.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Although adults are being asked to be circumspect

in the law’s enforcement, like it is with the rest of the CGs. My point is that the community plays a huge part in the patrol of the rules. AN is self-policed; the mods create the rules and the mods issue the CGVs, but everyone can flag stuff.

And the mods make very clear what is a CGV, unlike the complete subjectivity within the regimes you talk about.

And its simply, everyone makes a sacrifice to make the place more accessible and better for everyone. And considering that AN has major connections to get content and do interviews that your average blog does not (i.e. interviews with Reggie, interviews with Beane, etc.), accessibility and mainstream-friendliness is critical, especially with thousands of members.

"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis

by Blicks on Jul 22, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hear what you're saying, Rich, but I just don't agree.

I don’t see this as equivalent to McCarthyism. We are acquiescing because we think it’s worthwhile to accept a limitation to our personal convenience in order to promote the general good which is maintaining the health of the blog. I think a closer quasi-political metaphor would be stricter standards on carbon emissions.

To me, it’s a decent trade-off, so I go along with it. I don’t think this is slippery ground, nor do I think it’s much of a slope.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

This assumes that certain words can't be found in "good writing"

Such an assumption is foolish.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

My creator called.

He agrees with blue n fuzzy.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sometimes form is expression too

See, e.g., that book about LB

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

not at all. the best word to be used is determined instance by instance.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

who do you turn to when instance is busy?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Batman?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

He isn't very verbose

I don’t think he could help much there

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or maybe his unverboseness IS the help?

Hmmmmm.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

stop making me think

it hurts

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Except now... the best word may not be used without repercussions

IF said word is used in a non-appropriate area of the website.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

maybe inappropriateness itself bars it from being the best word there and the challenge is to find the even-better word? think of mailer with the naked and the dead.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Meh

That sounds kind of sophistic to me, AV. Think of Joyce.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh yeah. thinking of joyce makes me admit there’s no better way to say: f*** that m*****f***ing a**h*** ump and his f***ing up of that unlucky son-of-a-b****’s perfect game!!!

oh, you meant james… i think he’d be the first to say you use the best word that fits the circumstance. and what i’m adding is that audience shapes the circumstance.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

In that case

this could be seen as an externally-imposed decision about audience — i.e., grover is no longer allowed to write for his preferred audience, or something like that.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

who?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I prefer honesty and a lack of ambiguity

I write how think and how I speak. I have been fortunate in my life to find places where I can do so without drawing (much) ire. Even in my workplace there are times when I can say something as simple as “we’re fucked” and it is a perfectly accepted AND understood message. Yes, I work in an environment that allows that form of expression and yes, that’s part of the reason why I chose the career I’ve chosen.

My objection to the new rules isn’t so much that vulgar language is being restricted to designated areas; rather that one of those restricted areas is the very place where I do the bulk of my talking… in fanposts. I cannot sit at home and write a fanpost that includes vulgarity without getting in trouble. I don’t write DLD’s, I tend to focus on specific topics. That is why I came to AN in the first place; to share my opinion and my words and my thoughts on the Oakland A’s in particular and baseball in general.

Why should I choose to come to an environment that is set to punish me for thinking and speaking as I do? Why should I take the time to write a fanpost for AN when I cannot use my own words?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Did someone say Ambiguous?

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

A pictures worth a thousand words...

Ergo, your ambiguous post earns 333 flags!

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

WOOHOOO!

I earned my badge for the day!

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love you

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I write how think and how I speak.

you’re in trouble!

(just kidding/had to do that. now i’ll read your comment.)

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't want to come across as completely egotistical

“I” this and “I” that and pretty soon people think I’m self-involved.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

(not sure if you’re seeing the missing i in the sentence i quoted, and if your comment speaks to that or to something else…) how about?: i write how i think and speak.

but i know what you meant. as i’m doing it right now, i write with many too many i’s. and i spend a good deal of time rewriting my emails to delete sentence-starting ones. and then i pretend i’m less egotistical by writing it in lower case.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thus the quoted I's...

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

maybe we should alleviate our grammatical woes by going jamaican? yes, rasta, i and i survive.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

jah mon

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Would be a Hell of a lot easier

than trying to figure out how to write “I” in plural form.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

As I learned from Classical Greek,

the plural of -i is -us.

Or was it the other way around?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is

pronounced “eyes.”

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I suppose one answer would be

just write your FanPost as usual, and then stick “[DLD]” in the subject line.

If you want to be explicit about it, you can add a sentence to the front of the post that says something like,

This really has nothing to do with link dumps, I’m just calling it a “DLD” so that swearing will be allowed. But it’s a serious discussion, so please try not to turn it into a CT thread. Thanks.

If I’m understanding the rules correctly, this gets you off the hook entirely.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

To be honest if the swearing, and sex talk, left and right,

stopped and was just occasional, there would be no need for rules and so we’d just get rid of the rules because they wouldn’t be necessary.

BOTTOM LINE

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Honest question

Are there a large amount of posts that are flagged due to swearing and/or sexual innuendo?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know it's really a range

In any given two-week period, the flags might be heavy on “politics” or “2 people flagging each other out of spite” or “profanity/lewdness” or “perceived personal insults” — there’s not really a pattern.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Interesting

I mean, if (random majority number pulled out of thin air) 75% of flagged posts were due to profanity or innuendo, I could understand the new guidelines, and honestly I’d bet that the majority of people who disagree with it would also understand.

It appears that’s not the case though, and there’s some other reason for these new rules.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe trying to nip it in the bud?

For all those who were worried about a slippery slope with the new rules, the real slippery slope was allowing the comments to fall further and further into the toilet, which then entered into the other threads. Where does it go next? I see these rules as a way to stop the slipping and bring us back to a more family-friendly environment.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I love toilet humor and innuendo. That doesn’t mean I’ll tell dirty jokes or talk about whipping out my penis in front of my grandmother.

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

Yes, cause the teenagers on this site like RRS and Queso

are delicate and we can’t corrupt them :P

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I talk about sex to

RRS or Queso, I am educating them, not corrupting them. Their future girlfriends will thank me for it.

Future Girlfriend: <gasp> OMG! I thought you were inexperienced. Where did you learn to do that?

RRS/EQC: Um, you know how I’m an A’s fan? Well, there was this blog, and they used to talk about….

Future Girlfriend: Wow. Go A’s!

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Help me promote my new club,

O’s for A’s.

You could help us with outreach.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just spewed a can of beer out of my

nose reading about your self;less act of generosity.

Any chance those two are capable of hooking up with some fine hotties who want to meat (sic) the master?

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 23, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

hehe

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

good post

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is is, EXACTLY.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jul 22, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you are right about the depths we have seen things go at times....and that it was no holds barred ANYWHERE!

As a person who posts and enjoys the repartee amongst those on AN, I never saw it as my place to say – “not what I really want to read.” Never seemed that important – but I will also say there were/are things that I view as a bit over the top.

I have seen things in a serious baseball content post get side-tracked very easily. Probably have contributed myself – It is so difficult to be all things to all people. But the off-topic banter is distracting at times. That being said – I see Mikev’s point as well….not knowing what the problem/issue really is makes it hard to understand the need for the change.

Seems reasonable and we still have room and space to be as out there are we need/want to be.

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

My rule of thumb:

The farther toward the right hand margin the comments go, the less closely I read.

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

si

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

this comment is on the right margin, I won't read it

(I completely agree with you….I’ve done the same thing for a while now….)

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 22, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you make a hard in fast rule without

A) involving the community as a whole
B) without politely asking the offenders to tame it down a bit

That’s what I take issue with more than anything. You don’t need rules for everything. In most cases a simple “hey guys, take it elsewhere” tends to work and I’ve never seen that.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've done B) publicly and privately

I’m terrible at searches, but if I can find the public examples I’ll link them.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've only seen it once

to G_S when he went waaaay over board.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

and got a strike and quit the blog. again.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

I mean, totally 100% out of line there. And that needed to be stopped, but I hardly saw that prevalent around here.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

but it was

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not outside the places that encourage it

Unless you’re trying to include general social banter which is whole other beast.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

i mean not on the level of four days ago

but Ive seen it happen to my threads in the past

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, yeah

In a lot of cases, your threads turn into a polite social hour and I think it’s entirely reasonable to expect that not to take place. But it wasn’t really in the terms of the original post technically forbidden and it wasn’t really discouraging it.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really don't want to resurrect that discussion,

but I was actively involved in a situation where someone was repeatedly asked to stop doing something and his response was, “If you’re serious about this, make a clear rule about it; otherwise, I’m going to ignore your request and do what I want.”

Eventually the rule was made, and then he stopped.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

and that was one very specific user

and one very specific issue.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes...

the rule to be named “XBox”. One individual. And the mods didn’t bother to stop him. He was hardly an everyone needs a rule for it case. And sadly, you were one individual ‘not’ asking for the rule who really had a major issue with it too.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

no i didnt

I had an issue with him ignoring requests to stop. the picture stuff didnt bother me, i just thought it was BS to blatantly do something just to piss someone off after they asked that ir be stopped.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 5:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think DMOAS's "you" was me.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

no worries

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWHS

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 23, 2010 5:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bonus points for grammatical ambiguity:
That doesn’t mean I’ll tell dirty jokes or talk about whipping out my penis in front of my grandmother.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Except the slippery slope for rules has happened

We’ve gone from being able to right just about any baseball related content we want to being asked as front page writers to adjust our headlines to now, as a non-front page writer, being told what words I can or cannot use when I write on my own time.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well no, actually.

The whole headline thing has been mischaracterized. I have never interfered with, or tried to influence, anyone’s headlines and in fact usually violate Yahoo’s “Best Practices” rules on them myself. It’s true that certain headlines will generate more traffic and at the time I passed that info along to all the writers, and I think that’s the last I ever said about it. It was basically, “If you want more people to read it, here’s what you’ll want to do” — and I left it up to each writer to do whatever they wanted, and still do.

And honestly, being asked not to use cuss words, specifically, is hardly telling you in general what words to use or not use. We’re a well-read site in the public eye, for crying out loud — not wanting cuss words is just basic good sense.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Public eye?

Anyone over the age of 8 has heard and probably used the choicest of swear words.

I was there for the whole misguided headlines bit and I was there when you said you’d never try to change a writer’s content.

And I’m telling you, in no uncertain terms, words are content. You are telling me what words I can or cannot use to write a fanpost.

Sure, I could write without using swear words but that’s not the point. The principle of the matter is that I will not be told what I can or cannot say when I freely invest my time and energies into creating something useful for AN.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, well, yes I said I'd never try to

change a writer’s content, no I don’t consider “no cuss words please” to be changing a writer’s content, and yes I think I’ve been entirely good to my word that I’ve never tried to change a writer’s content.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

nip it in the bud before it gets worse

I for one am really tired of some of the sexual innuendos on this site. If they can be restricted to certain areas of the site (The CT threads have done this very well), it makes it possible to read through the rest of the site without the points people are trying to make being caught up by other people’s comments…

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 22, 2010 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't really see anyone disagree with that part of the updated rules.

Whether a rule needs to be in place or not, how it spells that out is more or less where I expect to see where that stuff or I’d be inclined to use it. And for the most part, I suspect that’s what mostly goes on. But in general, the real issue there is simply a matter of keeping the conversation in a given fanpost on topic. Don’t turn a stat post into social hour, don’t turn a social post into a heated debate thread, etc.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

if people did this and did not digress we might not be having this discussion

you are sensible and if others were as well – problem solved.

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me emphasize that as usual,

there is no “hidden agenda.” The site has become, in my judgment, too filled with profanity and lewdness to the point where:

1. Many readers are uncomfortable, bored, irritated, disinterested, or all of the above, and have told me so.

2. I am uncomfortable with what I see as an increasing “drunken frat party” atmosphere presented on the site to readers and the public, and I don’t think it’s good for AN — and this has nothing to do with money or business, and everything to do with “quality.”

That’s all it is. Heck, if people can just choose to tone it down and say “that’s cool,” we can get rid of the new rules next week, I don’t care. Just tone it down a bit so it can work for everyone.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then why didn't you just ask that in the first place?
That’s all it is. Heck, if people can just choose to tone it down and say "that’s cool," we can get rid of the new rules next week, I don’t care. Just tone it down a bit so it can work for everyone.

I mean if you knew that people weren’t going to like this, evidenced by the first statement you made in this post, why not just throw up a front page post and say “Look, I’ve personally gotten complaints about X. This is the plea to AN, tone it down so that we don’t have to rewrite the CGs to include a bunch of stuff that should be common sense.”

Incidentally, the Flagging system seems to have failed.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I did exactly that. It didn't work.

You don’t remember?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, this is having an impact

..and not in a good way, I fear. Except that mikev and I have found common cause.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Surprise alliances are good for the soul.

Strange bedfellows and all that.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

wait

it’s gonna take more than that for richwol to proposition me

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

strange bedfellows....

…probably the wrong metaphor, under the circumstances.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously

having a warning like that buried in a thread somewhere doesn’t really suggest effort to be honest. I mean, it’s an attempt sure, but if no one really sees it, it’s as if it wasn’t done. If you’re saying you made a fan post or a warning as a tag to one of your front page write ups, and we missed, then yeah, you’ve got a case and it’s entirely 100% our bad.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know I have.

I can’t remember the title, though, so I can’t find it in a search. Mostly what I remember is some of the vitriolic replies, but that doesn’t help me find the thread.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Recently?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was a FP post? an "official" request per se

and not a comment somewhere in a thread?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm trying to remember

a word in the title — I’m seriously bad at finding stuff. For some reason, what I remember most is lynnzgal making a couple comments in it just blasting me. But that doesn’t really help me find it!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

The search function works for words and phrases in the main body, too

If you can remember a particular phrase or example you used, you could probably find it with the search function.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know that...I'm just trying to think of

a word or phrase.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

My google-fu is strong, and

my memory, too, but I’m not turning anything up that matches your description. I think you might be partially remembering something and conflating it with what you were thinking but didn’t post.

Just last week you had the CGV update, which was a bland assurance that everything is going well.

Last summer there was a plea to the community to keep rally pics in the appropriate thread, which led to a lengthy discussion of community policing. Are you perhaps thinking of that?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's possible

Again I don’t remember the post so much as some of the replies.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

crows and roosting

you use to be a pretty main offender, and when you were doing it and I made the point that beastiality references were far more socially unacceptable than being a snide no it all in a PT sucks thread when I first came on board you really snapped at me, so I you have to be willing to take a certain amount of that since its a little like pot and kettle but I rec’ed your response because it is true that you rarely go there anymore.

Furthermore I can only find one such instance of this happening which was all of four days ago

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I've made a concerted effort,

and I would like to think that it models “listened and learned” not just “well you messed up before.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know you have

but that doesn’t mean that you don’t have to reap what you sow to a certain extent.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh I don't care about that

I get far worse — no matter what I do, I’m a corporate shill only trying to make SB Nation rich, who’s drunk with power and only pretends to have a committee that’s just a lie to front for my dictatorial tyranny.

Frankly, the person I’m presented as at times isn’t anyone I’d ever care to meet!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well to be fair SBN is trying to get rich

and you do work for them and have made some decisions that I wouldn’t characterize as fair.

Doesn’t mean that youre a horrible human being.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have literally never put

“profits” over “quality” — SB Nation has a lot more to take issue with around me than the AN community does.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did i ever say you did?

I said SBN is trying to get rich and you do work for them

I also said that you have made some decisions that I wouldn’t characterize as fair. Those aren’t necessarily related.

I mean if I was running the blog I would have banned you and flashfire last year for the same reasons that PT’s ridiculous ban was justified for just repeatedly being assholes to posters. But you let that happen.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's fine

“SBN is trying to get rich and you do work for them” is absolutely true.

You happen to have a blogfather who is probably in the 98th percentile of “not a corporate guy-ness” and “more interested in quality than profitability,” and I guess you can do whatever you want with that!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

right

im just saying the Nico is the SBN overlord thing comes with the territory of you know… being the SBN overlord, even if youre a more benevolent one.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I get it and that's fine

It’s just funny how often people “invent” me instead of just paying attention. I have actually never once intentionally lied to the community or had a hidden agenda, and when I make a decision it’s because I think it’s best for AN-the-blog-and-community, not my own self-interest or the profitability of a corporation I don’t frankly care about. I care about AN, period.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

BTW, this is what California Golden Blogs did

They used to allow politics. Then they asked everyone publicly could they please stop having stupid slapfights over politics, and they didn’t. Eventually they banned politics (somewhat hamfistedly, but that’s more a matter of how they did it than what they did). Recently they seem to have unbanned it again.

I’m more a fan of that style, but what do I know.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, rereading that thread,

it’s sort of funny, because there I had a ton of problems with the way the rule was promulgated but no real problem with the actual rule. And here it’s sort of the opposite. I think this method of announcing it is fine, I just don’t care for the rule.

Apparently I’m just a contrarian. Surprise surprise.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, you would prefer that they ban the use of all swear words

And then arbitrarily reinstate it?

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I just mean

that it’s nice if moderators are really straightforward and explicit about “please stop doing this or we’re going to ban it” so that when they actually do ban it, there’s no sense of surprise.

Nico seems to believe he did so, and maybe he’s right— I haven’t been around enough to tell.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I tend to be of the belief that

when faced with voluntary guidelines, people are slow to react, if they do at all. Only when they have a figurative gun to their heads does the behavior change.

On a side note, I miss your contributions, even though I disagree with some of them. Hope your gig in DC (I think that was the word around here) is going well, man.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Going very well actually

I’m getting everything I wanted from a summer internship (in-depth look at an area of the law, contacts within a significant potential future employer, and a good writing sample) out of it, and the actual job part is surprisingly reasonable stress-wise.

The problem is that most of the rest of my time is already getting sucked down by looking for a job for NEXT year. Amazing, but true.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I mean sad as it is,

sometimes when you ask, people ignore you and only when you say “you have to” do they comply.

I mean, does anyone imagine I get any joy out of being heavy-handed, or out of these threads, or that I didn’t anticipate about how this thread would go?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, we had problems with enforcement. It fell to me mostly. Recently we created a team of mods,, called the Hit Squad, to do what I couldnt do. Which is to control the moderation of flame wars et al. So, now we feel more comfortable having potentially verbotten topics out there.

PaulThomas, I appreciate your honesty, even if I disagree with your analysis of the promulgation. Thank you for the kind words.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey now, we're working hard to

get people to stop using words like “promulgation,” you dirty, dirty man.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 23, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I’ll return to thinking of the children.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd rather not lawyer around the system on a technicality

That and I don’t like lying to open a discussion.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

As a less sneaky alternative, perhaps the powers that be would entertain the idea that anyone writing a FanPost may, as an introductory note to his or her post, add a note saying something like “This FanPost and the comments attached to it may include swearing. If you don’t care for that sort of thing please look elsewhere.”

Perhaps there could even be a widget for it.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

or a this author prefers that the thread be kept to baseball?

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I'm to be deputized as "reminding peer eye"

for unwanted profanity, I will happily do the same for this. You know I’ve always supported you on preferring your threads not to be hijacked by gossipy silliness.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know

and I have appreciated it. Your lack of comments in threads was one of the things that I missed the most and saw as a part of the decline of AN

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you talking about

February-March-April?

Cause that’s just job-related.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

These are good ideas --

seems to me THIS is the kind of control someone should have over their own fanpost. Why not let people have a little introductory say in that fanpost’s parameters — “please stay on topic if you comment,” “warning: I use a little racy language in this fanpost,” etc. It’s your fanpost, and if people don’t like the parameters they are free to skip the post.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

right

I have in the past politely asked for people to not talk about ryan sweeney’s dick in my posts and been told that I was out of place.

I think thats extremely problematic.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's comments like this that make me want to swear

I actually read your headline as “Ryan Sweeney is Bigger Than You Think He Is”, and pointed out the humor in it, based on the sound of his name. A couple other people continued the joke with a play on “WAR”, which is absolutely, 100% typical of AN.

These are the names of the people who participated in the exchange:
Me, Iglew, danmerqury, grover, LoneStranger. All respected members of AN who understand the ebb and flow of posting and commenting. Right below our comments, there were 400+ comments about your article, which should have been enough to satisfy your ego.

This is how we’ve done things since the beginning here, and it’s not likely to change. One person makes a joke, a few people make witty comebacks, and we (most of us) laugh and move on to actual analysis.

You come into our playground, tell us how we should act, and then threaten to take your ball and go home if we don’t change. I realize that you’ve built up some cachet around here. But remember that this is our community, not just yours.

If you want a community that doesn’t make jokes inside posts you create, you’ll have to go elsewhere or create it yourself. Because AN is most certainly not that community, nor will it ever be. I’m sorry if that’s not what you want to read.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jul 23, 2010 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Go ahead and create a PG-13 wing in the fanposts

I’ll use it.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

no, let's not

Could Harvey Milk go out in front of any constituency (even the Longshoreman’s Union) and, in a speech asking for people’s votes, express his desire that people vote for him cuz he wanted to be a motherfucking supervisor? Could he just go out in front of the chamber of commerce and rattle off some bon mots about having wild sex with 10 men at once, in the most colorful language possible?

For you to suggest that because I wrote what I did as something of a clarification of Nico’s post that I am somehow a traitor to the gay community or that I am uninformed about queer history is really, really offensive to me, especially as a response to a post on a sports blog that you visit free of charge where someone is asking that every single comment doesn’t contain the maximum profanity every time.

Are you gay? Do you think that because you know Harvey’s speechwriter that this qualifies you to make pronouncements about someone’s fidelity to the cause or depth of historical knowledge to someone who IS gay? In your rush to hit back at Nico’s post you have gone way out in left field and I am really offended by what you wrote above. Honestly it takes a lot to offend me on these matters but that is way over the line, Rich.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes I am gay

And I’ve been out since 1971 and I know what it was like before Stonewall.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

fine

but you fail to answer the question, which is whether Harvey could have gone (or really any candidate today could go) in front of the public and use the kinds of offensive language we are talking about here, just gor the gratuitous sake of it. Because like it or not, this is a public site that serves a public beyond just yourself or myself or any one person or any one set of sensibilities.

Comparing Nico’s requests to McCarthyism, in which people had their lives and careers destroyed, folks committed suicide, etc etc is just so hyperbolized I can find no words to describe it. The same for comparing it to pre-Stonewall gayness, which is just so apples-to-oranges I dunno what to say about it.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

You folks from California take life or yourselves

way too seriously.

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Glad a straight guy jumped in

Pfewwww…

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

straight?

have you not read his posts?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've seen him hug you with passion

(rethinks everything)

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

EN

How come you’re using false analogies and straw man arguments? No poster is running for office here. And I don’t think people objecting to this are objecting because they want to use profanity every third word.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's because you're not seeing the connection

You’re talking about censorship in order to avoid offending people. Only you’re the one choosing, in this case, what’s offensive….so saying “shit” has suddenly become offensive. Well, gee, go back to when I was a teenager in the 1960s and because anything gay was verboten, I had no role models whatsoever, or go back to Frank M. Robinson’s (Harvey’s speechwriter) life in the 1950s and see a world where the only two possibilities, because people might be “offended,” were the closet or illegal gay bars.

For the other part - insofar as I know, unlike Harvey Milk or any candidate, you’re not running for election. And insofar as today’s candidates go, Chris Daly has a pottymouth and he has no problem getting elected and re-elected to the Board of Supervisors.

You say, “this is a public site that serves a public beyond just yourself or myself or any one person or any one set of sensibilities” well, gee, 52% of the California electorate voted against gay marriage in 2008. A whole lot of them are sports fans, and your posts about you and your boyfriend might be considered offensive to them. This is a business: how about censoring yourself so they will stay and won’t be offended? See where I’m going here?

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Frankly, this whole issue is an exercise in hyperbole

Blez losing his 20 year old nephew is important. Boonee losing his father unexpectedly is important. People losing their jobs, their homes, getting sick and not being able to afford medical care, all important.

Being told you can’t say “motherfucker” everywhere you want, on a free blog where someone else has the burden of figuring out guidelines to make it work for a range of readers? Not important.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

right?

Feels great to get called out as a traitor to gayness for expressing support for the ideas behind the new proposed profanity rules though, marvelous.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was my understanding that you were part of the decision-making process

And I’m not calling you a traitor to gayness.

I’m talking about making rules about offensiveness.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was a part of the process

In fact, I was initially one of the main dissenters to instituting a strict no-swearing policy. In fact, Nico initially had it so the Game Threads would be no-cussing zones like the Fanposts are indicated to be, but was dissuaded from this position, much to his consternation, on grounds of unenforceability and the perception of heavy-handedness over what many perceive to be the main attraction of AN (the game threads).

We’re not making rules of Dogmatic Inviolability here so much as asking people to take more of an attitude of consideration about what they are saying and how they are saying it, because people are being driven away and we can’t allow that if we can change things to make things more accommodating to a wider index of people.

Of course there will be resistance and argument, but this is a long term project and IMO really just a way to ask people to grow up a little bit… IMO the evolution of digital media to be absorbed by the ever-evolving framework of what’s considered mainstream media is inevitable, and we here as a vanguard site with the most traffic of any non-political blog ought to begin to take ourselves somewhat more seriously and assume a leadership role in that ascent… that’s all I was saying with the long post earlier today.

Sorry if I disappoint you, but I do respect your opinion as long as you’re not saying I am ignorant of gay history or to the history of censorship in general, because I can tell you most assuredly that I am not.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't saying that you were ignorant of gay history or censorship....

…but your earlier explanation struck me as seeming to be devoid of the understanding that such knowledge would engender.

My fear here is that by codifying, you censor. As with political comments - and mikev on this very page was going to make a political comment that had, in his mind, relevance, but didn’t because he didn’t want to get flagged - we’re all forced to self-censor. So it moves beyond simply taking care what one says into an entirely different realm, that of behavior changed by the fear of retaliation.

When I spend time with Harvey’s speechwriter, who is still alive and well and healthy at 85, I am always reminded about how good I had it, and how good younger people have it. And that’s because people like Harvey Milk didn’t worry about whether the bluenoses would be offended. I’m aware, of course, of the difference between laws against gay people, and a rule against use of the word “fuck” on a sports blog. But the choice to have rules in order not to offend is a difference in scale, not kind. And it is a small step from this to banning “Red Sux” and not that much of a step after that to other kinds of bans as well. That’s why it is a slippery slope.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Harvey didn't worry if the bluenoses would be offended

but Harvey was also a politician — and an acknowledged master politician at that — who knew that he couldn’t lay his gayness out in front of the skeptical and the outright homophobic in the purest, most scatalogically-worded format either… because no one would have ever voted for him to be elected dog-catcher, no less SF Supervisor.

The issue here isn’t content, the content is the surface but the main issue is the context. Harvey was a pioneer and pioneers are pioneers because they find ways to put the necessary information needed for grand and effectively lasting change “into people’s food,” in the sense that people come to a place where they are being led to greener and more productive pastures even though they have little or no idea that a Leader is there telling them where to go. This is why Lao Tzu referred to the most effective leaders as the ones who, when they die, those they have led to greater prosperity look around and say “Look at all the wonderful changes the people have made!” with minimal reverence to any single leadership figure that “made it all happen” for them.

Anyway, no one is banning “Red Sux,” that’s like the Mother’s Milk of Boston Hate. No one is really trying to “ban” or “censor” anything so much as instill in people a broader recognition of the context — the growing and more-influential-every-day milieu of AN — in which they are operating as our blog here becomes more and more the main source on the internet for all things A’s.

What is under question is more along the lines of the “FUCK BOSTON” Lite-Brite graphic I put on the front page the other day during the game… Nico’s concern is that the front page is sort of the gateway page to the AN-uninitiated and in having lewd or gratuitously-profane imagery and speech on the FP we are sort of auto-excluding people who might make valuable contributions to AN but who are being sort of shunted away from the door by the out-front vulgarity that really shouldn’t be the mode-of-introduction into any media outlet or website because it’s auto-exclusive of the sensibilities of many people whom we might come to value as contributors over time.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

But then why include any of the threads?

A gateway is a gateway…someone gets front page treatment under very specific conditions. But once you go to a link, you’re opening a different door. That’s pretty much where I’m drawing the line, and I suspect where those who agree with me are drawing the line. But my reading of this is talking specifically about threads, about post-game threads, and about threads involving statistical analysis, places where expletives tend to flow freely, or should flow freely.

AN has been very free-wheeling. I was opposed to flagging people like PT not because I agreed with him - I didn’t, and I was the recipient of a couple of his insults - but because that was part of his contribution.

I know that insults, and expletives, sometimes keep people away, but again, so does statements about “lifestyle choice” (I’m using a term I vehemently disagree with here), which is why I specifically brought it up. I wouldn’t expect you to avoid using the term BF (if such existed) just as I wouldn’t expect mikev to use the term GF. And if people are offended, then should any of us care? By the same token, why single out a word like “shit,” a common term used even on the BBC these days?

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth, I dislike

“Red Sux” and “Skankees” and similar names about 50 times more than I dislike “fuck you, asshole!”.

Seriously. Those juvenile disparaging names for other teams really turn me off. Not that I’m saying they should be banned, but as long as we’re discussing what we like and don’t like, I personally would rather see those go away than anything that has been regulated against today.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions   5 recs

Agreed

On that same note, I wish posters (including particularly chief administrators) would stop referencing a certain sockpuppet post about indians.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

THIS

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Should I understand what that means?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Tonto thing

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh. Forgot about him!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

In fairness

It has been a couple months.

That said, many of us strongly objected to the post at the time and felt it should be killed.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

If people objected to it, why didn't they flag it?

I somehow missed the comment when it was made in May, but if someone had flagged it, I would’ve seen it. I just checked, and there were no direct replies indicating any objection, and no flags of the comment itself.

If anyone objects to a comment, make sure you flag it, that way it can be seen by the moderators. (Or, just respond to the post itself)

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 22, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've always done the latter, myself.

But that’s just because I’d rather directly deal with someone as opposed to what boils down to telling on them.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because I fought that battle and lost in the initial thread

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 23, 2010 3:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I honestly think you are a traitor to a variety of causes, like model railroading and the Basque separatists movement. I’m not sure gayness is really one of them, though.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then why are you making it a law, instead of a request?

You chose the guidelines, Nico. It’s just as easy for you to have made this utterly voluntary (with perhaps the idea that those who use too much profanity are gently reminded of that fact and that this is an open community board), then you’ve solved the “problem.” But you chose to make it a rule with consequences.

There are always more important issues than any discussion on Athletics Nation. But within the context of this blog this, and all discussions regarding community standards, are important.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two reasons:

1. We’ve asked before, just as you suggest, and that didn’t get the job done.

2. Ultimately AN is not a democracy, it’s a dictatorship. It may be a benevolent one, driven by the attempt to do what is fair and right and best for the whole, but not everything is open to discussion or vote. It just isn’t.

It’s also an unbelievably minor request, really, and nothing is being asked of anybody that they wouldn’t be asked in almost any place of business, from a theatre to a hardware store to a bar — even a ballpark.

What it really comes down to is “respect” — if you want to have a diverse community, then you also have to accept that you might have to tone down things you see nothing wrong with, simply because you know it bothers others.

You don’t have to judge, and say “well it shouldn’t bother them” — you can say, “well it bothers them, and it’s a problem to the owner, so even if I don’t agree with it I can respect it.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

First of all, there is a reason they are called

“community guidelines” not “community laws”.

Second, if the rule were not spelled out explicitly, there would be a lot of people complaining that it was too vague and they want a clear rule, and there would be a few more saying “you can call it a community standard all you want but until you make it officially against the rules, I’ll ignore it and do whatever I want.”

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Incidentally

The majority of people wouldn’t have known about Blez losing his 20 year old nephew or Boonee losing his father unexpectedly if it weren’t for this free blog.

There’s all kinds of shit (OMG!) that’s more important than being able to say “motherfucker” on a baseball blog. So what? What is the point of making that statement when we’re on a baseball blog and talking about whether or not we can say “motherfucker” — and on top of that, the subject of being able to afford medical care isn’t even allowed here?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Well

Can’t you equally say that’s more important that actually creating these rules too? Not sure where your point is going there.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m thinking of the children right now!

And I’ve been thinking of them all night long. Me-ow!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

strongly rec'd

We must keep in mind that this is a VERY liberal baseball blog. Any connotation that AN mods are leading to the gradual censorship of the internet itself is absurd. If you wish to remind yourself of the freedoms commenters on the internet still enjoy, visit the SFgate comments once in awhile.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

please no

anything but that!

I’ll talk! I’ll tell you everything you want to know, but, please, please, don’t make me go there! [sob]

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am not sure about the swear counts.

I do know that some people cuss just to cuss (I personally don’t care because I am sure I do it- more so in real life than here).

I definitely agree with the abundance of ass/penis/boob/sex talk and wish that would subside, or at least be left in the CT threads.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's a lot of sex talk here now?

I’ve been away awhile., but that seems pretty juvenile even by my standards.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Enough of it.

I’m ok with a certain amount of innuendo, especially if it’s clever, but blatant is not only bad, it’s boring. But seriously, it’s bad. Touch me, grope me, I’ll be your lover, do you want to see my penis, blah, blah, bleeping blah.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wish I was.

And I’ll go ahead and say that I have not been completely innocent.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

In fairness

Up until very recently, it was kept in places where it was more or less appropriate. Then sort of out no where it migrated out into more public venues where it most definitely shouldn’t have. And as one who played in that arena, while it didn’t bother me what was said, it did bother me that we were crossing a major line in terms of location. It was kind going from walking around naked in your house to deciding to waltz down main street U.S.A naked. The former is no biggie, the latter: woooh there buddy.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

quit stealing from "Hoosiers"...

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have posters complain when

the silly chatty content would invade more serious baseball-related posts

I think this is really the same concept, except that some of the serious posters who don’t care for the silly chattiness do like to swear.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

sirbed drops bombs of truth

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

and boom goes the dynamite

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

that just happened

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which is why I stay out of them.

{yeah right}

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWHS

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

True, but they like it that way.

It looks “mean-spirited” to us, but at the end of the day they all pat each other on the back and have a beer together, having enjoyed the rough and tumble of an intellectual brawl.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

heh

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Different people.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but those people are p*ssies.

There’s going to be a general amnesty for this thread, right?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

More or less

There are just places certain things shouldn’t be. But I don’t think language is really a part of. But abuse of it should be stopped. But I also find not enough effort is made to polite ask them to move off to somewhere where it’s more appropriate too fwiw.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've flirted in the threads often

But with no more than ^ winks ^, I never insinuated any act or body part.

I’m a little dis-combobulated here, I am a rampant swearer in the game threads—I wasn’t aware that kept a lot of people away—and hell no I’m no saint, but I did get upset this week when it was asked of one of regular members if she had taken her clothes off after a coffee spill.

I mean, come on, we cannot treat our women that way, good-natured flirting, all right, if consensual, but asking if they’ve taken off their clothes was somehow too far. I am not a sexual prude, please, but we’ve got to basely respect all of our people.

It wasn’t even that bad of a mistake, truly, the recipient wasn’t upset, seemingly, it just tripped a line in my head, don’t do that in the threads.

[sigh] One can’t establish any standard with it, I suppose it could be classified as “lewd,” I just don’t want to go there.

by paradox on Jul 22, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

The lady to whom you directed your query

took it as a lady should. She interpreted the question at face value and answered it accordingly. If she heard any lewdness in it, she kept it to herself and revealed no hint of it in her response, neither objecting nor encouraging. Very very classy.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWSS

Your third place Oakland A's.

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jul 22, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can count me among the supporters.

I don’t know if anyone but Nico cares about my opinion, but I do completely support this change, in spite of the fact that I’m one of the naughtier posters here. I shall miss the innuendo most of all, but I understand the rationale, the compromise seems reasonable, and I appreciate the (relative) clarity.

The draconian stand on swearing doesn’t bother me as much as it seems to bother others. I’m a casual swearer, so I’ll have to be learn to be more careful, but I see such censorship as an invitation for more creative expression not less. I think many of us will slip up a lot at first. I trust the mods will show appropriate lenience to those who are making a good-faith effort but sometimes forget.

By biggest concern is that I’ll forget what kind of thread I’m in. Perhaps that will take care of itself as all the potty-mouths flock to the DLD and flee the other threads so the contrast will be more obvious. As a potential feature request, might it be possible to add some sort of visual cue to the screen, like a slightly different style look, that distinguishes clean threads from dirty ones? That would be equally helpful to those who hope to avoid profanity, as a cue that they’ve accidentally stepped over to the wrong side of the tracks.

I also wonder at the definition of a DLD. Is it simply any fanpost that declares itself so in the title? That would be useful. I could imagine posting something that really ought to be dirty — eg, an “after dark” QOTM thread — so if I want I could just stick “DLD” in the title and be good. By the same token if someone like mikev wants a post that allows swearing he could post “FIRE GEREN NOW!!! [DLD]” and everyone can go there to swear about it? Or if DFA wants to allow swearing in his own thread he could post “Why we should trade Kurt Suzuki and bring up Josh Donaldson now [DLD]”? (But then he wouldn’t be able to complain if his thread is hijacked by squirrel talk.)

The one thing that’s unclear to me is about pictures in the “anything goes” threads. Someone mentioned this above. The word “edgy” is new here, and you haven’t defined it. I can’t tell if your intent is to tighten the standard there or if you’re just restating it to emphasize that it has not gotten looser. The wording sounds like the former, but in the overall context it seems more likely the latter.

As I understand it, there’s a pretty well-established standard for pictures in the game threads. NSFW showing of naughty bits is strictly prohibited at all times. Sexy looking pictures with cleavage or whatnot is allowed, but an excess of blatant bikini modeling or Maxim-like almost-porn-ness is frowned upon. (And of course the separate rules for subject line and size limitations.) When you say “edgy” are you changing this?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 11:32 AM PDT reply actions  

"The Draconian Stand on Swearing"

Censorship comes in three forms:
1. Removing certain topics from conversation in order to keep the conversation on track.
2. Offending people.
3. Protecting children.

it’s obvious why the first should be there. The second - there are words, most notably minority descriptors and various types, all of which are nouns, that are not allowed here. But adjectives? I’ll say it again…the idea that someone will sit around and flag? I find that absolutely obscene.

It really bothers me that so few of you folks get it. I’m the oldest person here insofar as I know - I turned sixty weekend before last - and I’ve seen a lot more than people here have. Don’t go down this road.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

re: number 3

I’m less about ‘protecting’ children – my almost 9 year old kids know most of the words – it’s about teaching them societal norms of discourse, and when are actually appropriate times to swear. And that subtly is impossible for a 9 year old. (and hard for the rest of us.)

Offending people – it’s impossible to avoid in general. Possible to avoid making a habit of offending people though.

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Your last paragraph.

I can’t speak for Nico but it is exaclty as you described it, and I hope it stays that way. We’re pretty good at policing pics that don’t belong.

I actually mentioned- half-jokingly- about applying a warning label to certain posts.

One thing that seems to be widely considered- unless I am way off base- is that profanity and juvenile behavior only happens in game threads, CT threads, and DLD’s. If that is the assumption, it is not entirely correct.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Your last bit

The juvenile behavior that’s of an adult nature should stay in those locations. The non-adult nature, no biggie. The language outside of there should just be “controlled” and appropriate within it’s use, but not necessarily censored.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I object to the use of "juvenile" in this discussion.

When I engage in sexual innuendo it is almost always with the intent of making the discourse less juvenile, not more.

The blatant oxymorony of “juvenile behavior of an adult nature” should be a clue here.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't referring to the innuendo as juvenile, but as adult

I was referring to the social banter as a general construct.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

$hit!

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chickie certainly will.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

heh

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your sigline is too damn long anyway.

It should start and end with Zooey.

I like the new avatar, by the way. I don’t remember what it was before, but this one works.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was a pic of Zooey

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh that's right.

I like that one, too! One of the few person-pictures that actually worked as an avatar.

Damn, that one was even better. Why can’t the 95% of people with shitty avatars upgrade theirs? I liked yours.

And Oldham dumped the flag one I liked after only a few days.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

it took something special for me to dump zooey

Cuppy found this pic for me last night

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

You should start an avatar-rating post.

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 22, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

or perhaps your own web site?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It would be short.

Who is the guy who gives letter grades to prospects but there’s only a couple of A’s and a few B’s? I’d be like that.

I can only think of one AN avatar I’d give an A to. Maybe about a dozen B’s, then the rest are about evenly split between meh and dislike.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yours is one of my favorite, by the way.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks....taken during my spring training trip at the desert botanical park.

Very near Papago Park. May not seem baseball related but it kind of is!! Dale Chihuly glass which I LOVE!!!

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chihuly!

I keep telling myself I need to go to the Chihuly museum in Tacoma. It’s so near, but I’ve still never been.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

You so should!! His work is A.M.A.Z.I.N.G!

and take pictures and share them with those of us who love his work. I will never forget the sculpture that hangs from the ceiling at the Seattle museum. But I am a fan of blown glass…….

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Although my philosophical objection to pictures

does not extend to works of art, I am sufficiently unpracticed with the camera that the results would no doubt be poor. More important, I’m sure it would lessen my own enjoyment of the experience if I were busy taking pictures of it for others.

I’d love to have you along on the trip for company, though, if you’re ever up this way.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

i'll remember that if ever up that way!

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

On a scale of solid green to Berry Jo, where does a Zebulon rate?

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jul 22, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have no idea what a Zebulon is.

Solid green is not included in any scale because it’s not right to grade one’s own.

Your avatar is completely incomprehensible to me at avatar size. It might be a lovely picture when full size, but at avatar size I have no clue what the hell it is. There are a great many avatars in this category, and they don’t score well on my scale.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

You've isolated my biggest concern

As someone who takes great relish in casual swearing, I’m not a big fan of the “No Blue Material” rules. But I understand the desire for them by some. The weird part for me is the demarcation line drawn down the middle of AN, á la I Love Lucy. On one side, we must put on our Sunday finest and speak only the Queen’s English; on the other, we can walk in shirtless, crack a beer and do our best Bundy impression (Al, not Ted).

I suppose it won’t be too difficult to remember which place is which. It just kind of seems odd to not have site-wide guidelines, only area-specific guidelines. I guess it’ll all settle down and feel fairly normal at some point. In my own mind, it’s just become “stay away from everything but DLDs and game/CT threads,” if only because I don’t trust my filthy mouth.

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

In this case, filthy fingers.

Now go wash your hands.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait

bob will want to sniff them first

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWSS

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

heh

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Let's try a simple link instead

here

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 22, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I have some.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You look suave Uncle

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

shucks

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

All in the eye of the beholder anyways

I think self-policing somehow will be the most effective means of eventually finding a comfortable steady-state. I don’t participate enough (I’ve been reading/visiting the site for years!) to thoroughly understand how flagging works here. Is there a threshold for number of complaints or flags that deems an automatic ban?

"Whether they find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet." - Jack Handey

by bluthbanana20 on Jul 22, 2010 12:01 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm seriously looking forward to nap time

Does that come before or after milk and cookies?

Hey, house rules are house rules. But if I can’t say what I want to say when I write a fanpost then I’m not going to be writing any more fanposts on AN.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 12:08 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

already are limits for fanposts

length, subject matter, offensiveness.
These rules just add more restrictions.

I would have preferred a discussion before new rules myself, but I don’t run the blog.

Hey nico, can we have public discussions of rule change before hand? Thanks!

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

There was discussion. Lengthy even.

And yes I know what you meant. ;-)

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your wink is looking a little l*mp?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

lamp?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lump, silly.

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

my bad

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm.

I don’t remember seeing the discussion.
Oh well. Or was you post just snark.

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

That seems a little contract to the community sense, no?

If we’re self-regulating, shouldn’t we have been part of that discussion?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Here's what amuses me...

AN is supposed to be a place where every single poster’s opinion matters. Yet only a few were involved in the swearing discussion. OK… logistics and everything.

But when I was a front page writer Nico swore up and down that while he’d like the titles of our pieces to look a certain way (for Yahoo) and be less insider we’d never be asked to censor our baseball writing. The actual content of our writing was still ours to create. A lot of people got upset and left because of the title issue and now my word choice within something I write for this site on my own free time is subject to censure.

Every year John Sickels awards one minor league batter the Josh Willingham This Guy Can Fucking Hit Award. If an A’s hitter was ever given this award you could not, per the new rules, take an article from another SB Nation writer (an oft-published, professional at that) and put it on the Front Page without editing the wording of the award itself or burying it in a DLD.

That is silly.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You can be equally credible without the use of swear words

And it shouldn’t change how strongly you can make opinions, present data, etc.

Re: the swearing discussion – I think we only have ourselves to blame for that. We jumped all over poor Nico when the thing about sponsored posts came up.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Problem

You’re suggesting I could be equally credible using someone else’s words.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair, but how many times do you run across a scenario

when you must blockquote someone else’s vulgarity to make your point? Apparently, it’s okay to link to articles with cuss words in them still.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Logistics, yes.

Anyways, what exactly would change in terms of the way you write, grover? The use of profanity? How often do you use it anyway? I’m just asking. Don’t eat me.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I swore in the last (literally) fanpost I wrote

I made a comment about the motherfucking Yankees and how they always seem to get the calls from the umpires. Now, according to the new rules, because I wasn’t in a thread that has been designated as an approved PG or greater environment I will be struck down upon with great vengeance and furious anger… or at least get flagged. Whichever.

I use profanity when I feel those words best express how I feel or what I think about a situation. I use those words when I want no ambiguity in my message. I use them for color, I use them for humor, I use them when they are the most honest words for the place and time of the conversation.

And if I can’t come to an Oakland A’s baseball site and use my words to talk about the A’s then I’m not interested in spending a great deal of time at that site.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

And I for one- and it's strictly a judgement call- would determine all of that well-placed profanity.

It’s not all the time and it’s not excessive, but it happens to fit that particular mood. So I will say that I literally hope you re-think that thought.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I. CAN'T.

The new rules say:

* In game recaps, front page posts, and non DLD fanposts, it is acceptable to use an expletive only if you use asterisks/symbols instead of typing the word out fully, e.g., “f***” or “bulls**t” or “F%$#@!!!” or if you use abbreviations, e.g., “WTF?” or “STFU!” This way, readers can viscerally express the emotion of swearing without actually putting cuss words in front of readers who don’t like it.

* In game recaps, front page posts, and non DLD fanposts, all other forms of profanity are not ok.

I cannot sit at home and write a fanpost and include what you consider non-excessive, well-placed profanity and then post that piece on AN without it getting flagged.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh yeah, that.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

The length argument is about folks posting fanposts outa fanshots

Subject has always been about non-baseball related foci.

Offensiveness is all about personal taste.

But telling me how I can write a baseball themed fanpost? No.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

And this is the critical problem

You slowly drive people away—often essential people, good people—when you adjust the environment so that everyone can feel comfortable. This new “shift,” as Nico calls it, is the kind that will likely drive some good people away, maybe not even immediately, but eventually because of other subtle shifts that eventually change the nature of the site, making it less relaxed, less free, less comfortable.

I’m not sure it adds anyone, though. It just makes us more palatable to larger institutional interests perceived as more important or powerful.

Liken it to the sort of trade-offs that are made when just about anything grows more successful:
Yeah, we have the fancy stadium, but suddenly you can’t afford seats.
*
Yeah, the site is growing and getting greater exposure, but you might lose grover’s posts.

Personally, I’d take the old world.

The argument that it’s a business, so deal with it doesn’t really work for me because it isn’t a business to me. It’s a place I go to laugh, vent, gain insight, and read posts like those by grover that I can’t find anywhere else.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

All of which does little to alter the fact

that AN is in fact a business. And has been for quite some time. For all that, it’s still the place you described.

I get a little annoyed with the sense of entitlement. I like AN, but I also know it’s not my exclusive property and there is a certain modicum of expected behavior. I can live with it.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who's feeling entitled

I’m just describing the situation. So it’s a fact that it’s a business to some. Why exactly does that mean so much to you? And stop treating it as if it’s a traditional business of any kind, like say the hardware store down the street. That’s nonsense.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

The entitlement comment wasn't directed

specifically at you, and I apologize for not making that clear. But it is nonsense to think that just because this is a business you participate in at no cost to you that it is somehow substantially different than the hardware store down the street. It isn’t. There is one goal for those who are floating the boat, and that goal is turning a profit. I don’t blame them. I hope they turn a very large one. Why does it matter to me? Because I know my place in the scheme of things here. I’m provided a very nice forum to engage in my A’s mania at no charge. In return, I understand that I’m expected to adhere to a certain minima regarding conduct. It’s no big deal.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

How so?

This is provided to me at no cost. If I don’t like the rules, I will leave, which will serve to hurt their bottom line. Something I’m quite certain that they don’t want to see happen. I rather doubt that that the powers that be are even going to enforce the new rules all that stridently. And really, what’s so inherently evil about toning down the “mo fo’s” on the front page? That’s really all that’s being asked of us. It’s not an ureasonable request, although it grieves me that it bothers grover so much. I really don’t want him to leave.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Look, I'll spell it out for you

1. They adopt rules to help their bottom line.
2. The rules make the site more bland.
3. Your interests are harmed as you don’t like blandness.
4. This matters to you as you care about your interests.

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with you

You gotta follow the house rules.

However, I no longer feel the inclination to put in time and effort creating (usually) intelligent fanposts to share with the rest of the site. And that is a direct result of this new censorship on my writing.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

But here's the thing...

I don’t think anyone would be offended at your well placed use of profanity. It’s not random and vulgar for no valid reason. It’s well placed and adds depth to the content. I have a hard time believing that you would ever be flagged.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

But that doesn't matter!

The new rules specifically state that ALL non-DLD fanposts are banned from containing vulgarity. Anyone could flag me (and let’s face it, I’ve pissed some folks off in my time) and they’d have a valid complaint. By the letter of the law the CGV committee would have no choice but to deal me a strike.

Why would I want to write with that hanging over me?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

The CGV committee will still have a choice.

Perhaps they should be required to observe the letter of the law, but in fact they are not.

I’m not disagreeing with your general point, grover — you’re right that the rules put you in a position where it’s much harder to write freely — but I think it is incorrect to say the CGV committee would have no choice.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which means that Grover really needs to censor himself...

…because no matter what you think, the Committee can do whatever the hell it pleases, and Grover won’t know. Sure, they might not flag “Bob Geren’s latest move was bullshit,” even though you think it’s appropriate, but they might.

Furthermore, since when should “shit”, which pops up on commercial television now, be even included?

This entire policy shows a lack of thought or knowledge on the part of Nico, and as for emperornobody, he needs to learn his own history. The fact that he can talk about his boyfriend, here today, and not get flagged for offending the community is because some people stepped forward in the past and said, “NO MORE!” He seems to have completely forgotten that lesson.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

no I am single right now

and referring to a lover or a boyfriend isn’t in question here. If I’d make reference to what a great cocksucker my boyfriend was and go into lurid detail using as much profane language as i could muster, THAT would be an issue.

This is just really personal, being attacked as someone who doesn’t know or care about their own history or is somehow some sort of traitor to queerness, what did I do to deserve this kind of hyperbolized personal attack? Defend a policy that’s being proposed that asks people not to cuss gratuitously? Really, that equates to Josh = Traitor?

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

You're not getting it

I was not saying you were a traitor to gayness.

My point was that I would think you’d have known better, because of gay history in America, to see the relationship between censorship and the idea of not “offending people.” I can also see how I presented it in such a way that made you feel it was a hyperbolic attack and for that I apologize.

It’s also, I think, because from Day One you were completely open and unapologetic about who you are, and I admire you for that, a lot. So to see that suddenly you’re concerned about offending bluenoses - well, c’mon….yeah, the discrepancy was pretty obvious to me, especially since there are very few out gay men here (and I didn’t out myself til just today, here).

I’ve been extremely impressed by you and by your candor, all along. And that’s why today, for me, was so disappointing.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, I agree with that,

though as a practical solution, see my “[DLD]” suggestion above.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

So we're going to have a big discussion about new rules

And then… not enforce them?

If I write “motherfucking Yankees” in a fanpost and someone flags it then I’m in clear, unambiguous violation of the new policy. If the CGV committee then looks at the complaint and says “nah, it’s just grover” then they are creating a precedent of favoritism. Who else will be shown such favoritism? How are these rules supposed to hold up, how else is the CGV committee supposed to appear as anything less than a brute squad of AN toadies unless ALL posters are held accountable to the new rules?

It would be one thing if no one reported my use of vulgarity. AN has always had the policy of those fouls which don’t get flagged don’t get punished. It’s a whole ’nother matter if obvious fouls get flagged and are then circular filed by the committee.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

That last paragraph is usually how it works.

There is A LOT of flag-worthy stuff that doesn’t get flagged because of who the poster is. That has nothing to do with the mods, that’s AN speaking (or not speaking). And I think to some degree that would continue.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

But you can't be sure

And that’s why the idea that this isn’t a “slippery slope” doesn’t hold water.

Expletives are only powerful if their use is judicious. That’s why “fuck” has degenerated in power over the years.

But I still don’t think it’s Nico’s place, or EN’s, or a committee’s place, to be the expletive police.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

No we can't be sure.

But the CGV’s have been written and re-written and what I have learned is that nothing much changes. Which is probably why Nico felt the need to step in now, but is still ultimately up to AN to police itself. And it’s only good at it at its convenience.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure why actually spelling out 'motherfucking' takes away from a post.

It’s not like the meaning is any different when we see ‘motherf——-g’.

This isn’t a slippery slope. The mods aren’t waiting for the dust to settle to start adding more rules to restrict content.

I think people need to pick their battles, and this isn’t one that needs to be fought. You want to go apeshit and threaten to leave? Wait until it really matters.

P.S. This isn’t for or against 67M. He just ‘won’ the dart throwing contest on where I start writing.

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chip!

I’ll go apeshit on your ass.

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, make sure you use the suction cup darts and not the real ones.

You’ll break your monitor if you throw them hard enough.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

You'll know when you're over the line.

For one thing you get official warnings. For another, people will tell you so in the posts and say, “Uh, dude, that’s not cool. Also it’s against the rules and if you keep it up we’ll start flagging it.”

This is standard procedure on AN. I understand the danger of selectively enforced rules, but nevertheless it has worked pretty well so far as a compromise between clarity and flexibility.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

agrd.

Though as a whole we seem to target the excessive cussing over the sex talk. Damn us for being horny old men, I guess, but that to me is what truly is turning off AN.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

All animals muppets are equal, but some animals muppets are more equal than others

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 22, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

wow. this may be new favoritist thing ever.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Quick, over/under on the number of Orwell references in this post when it's all said and done

I know I’ve already made my contribution.

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is it too late?

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

That will be the night crews duty

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's not that place for me

And I don’t even get how it morphs into that.

But the very clear point one of the very best writers at this site has made above about expression is pretty fucking critical to the argument here and to the ongoing relevance of this site.

Does anybody not get how important someone like grover is to this site? And that losing his posts would in turn drive others away.

Does anybody actually think an interview with Reggie Jackson is more valuable than a post by grover?

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Straw - Drink

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I liked the Reggie access

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can we have blue fuzzy and Reggie?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

We can't be worry-warts about future changes

This is about what’s happening now. Right now, cussing will not be allowed in front page material. We don’t know what will happen in the future. If everything has to be super-clean in the future, we can argue about it then. But saying we’ll lose potential interest from future visitors is too much to worry about now.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's a lousy argument

You can spot trends from current and past actions and thereby predict future events. Those events aren’t absolutes; something unforeseen may happen to alter the course of events in the future. If you drive away people who add unique content to the site the it stands to reason that anyone who enjoyed that content is going to enjoy AN less in the future. And anyone who may be looking for that content in the future is going to pass on by after not finding it on AN.

This isn’t (just) my ego kicking in. There have been lots of complaints from people about the lack of “quality content” on AN recently. I got into an argument with a poster who said AN used to be a mandatory, every day visit but now he only stops by once a month ’cause of content. Adding further restrictions to the people willing and interested in creating fanposts on AN seems a foolish way to increase output.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd agree with the idea that AN used to be a must visit

but no longer is. That could have to do with getting spoiled or with the team being bad or with something else, but mostly I think it has to do with diminishing content and good people leaving.

Losing a poster like grover, as well as other contributers, would make AN less relevant. And that matters.

And what would the gain be exactly? What is the problem exactly?

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

AN wouldn't be losing me

They’ll have to ban my ass before I leave. I just won’t be writing fanposts anymore.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think both you and grover are accounting for the visible effects

while ignoring the invisible ones, a common mistake in economic analyses.

Yes, it’s true that this change will drive people away. I think it’s pretty clear that this will decrease posts from grover and others like him, and that will have some trickle-down effect on other readers. That is a very real cost and should be considered.

But we must also consider the potential new participants who never join AN in the first place because the tone of the place is such that they new people aren’t brought in. I think this rule attempts to address this, and rightfully so. It may or may not have chosen the best way to do it, but Nico is absolutely right to make that a priority, even at the cost of losing current participants whom we value.

Look, I’m an old fart. Like grover, I joined at the end of the 2004 season, just in time for the Hudson and Mulder trades. I’ve seen a lot of people leave. I miss monkeyball, Poppy, PaulThomas, and 74mk. But I’ve also been in a lot of online communities over the years — going back to the days of usenet and BBSes, and even postal communities in the days before the Internet — and I’ve seen a lot of communities die. Communities don’t die because the regulars are driven out; they die for lack of new people coming in. People leave anyway. Lives change and people develop different habits. Sure, we should take care of our own and not drive people out of the community if we can help it, but even more we should think about whether we’re continuing to attract new people into the community.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

So wait

Are we going with a “grass is greener” argument? We don’t know about the quality of other people being turned away, but we do know the quality of people here. If we, as a whole, like the group that’s here, why should preference be given to someone on the outside? That just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please, my mistakes are rarely common

The “evil tone” argument has been used repeatedly. Meanwhile, membership grows. Content is king and AN has lost a lot of writing talent over the past two years that is just now starting to be replaced. I don’t see how new restrictions on fanposts encourages the development of new writers.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because I'm not being allowed to use the words I wish to use

Don’t get me wrong, it is possible to go over the line (I imagine something involving goose-stepping bunny rabbits and sex toys would cross all kinds of lines) but the use of word like “fuck” that is acceptable in Game Threads but now not in fanposts is an arbitrary decision based on the values of another.

If I’m going to write a fanpost on AN, if I’m going to take the time to do the research and type it out and invest my energy and effort into the work then I should be allowed access to the words that will best tell my story. That is where I find the joy in the process. Telling the story in my own words.

If you’re going to take away the joy, why should I put in the work?

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because the only words being removed from the equation

are ones that are widely considered to be inappropriate in journalistic discourse. I mean, you’ve just said you understand you can’t choose things like epithets, so really we’re only debating the line. You want access to 99.999999% of possible words/terms and I’m asking (on some of the community’s behalf) to make it 99.999998% — and only words/terms that are commonly censored because they really bother some people. It’s just not a big deal.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Expletives form a much larger percentage than that of everyday English speech

It’s a small number of words but they are among the most commonly used words in the language.

I mean, banning “the” would be to ban an even smaller subset of words, but it would sure crimp people’s style something fierce…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

okay
It’s a sall nuber of words but they are aong the ost coonly used words in the language.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jul 23, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I tihnk that's from a ovie.

But you ight already know that.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 23, 2010 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just wanted to say "coonly" without getting a strike

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jul 23, 2010 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

but why shouldn't i get to decide that my fanpost should be serious and get to say fuck

where as I could decide that I want my fanpost to be ridiculous and get to say fuck?

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because rules are inherently imperfect

It’s the SPIRIT that is important and the spirit of all this is, “This is really bothering quite a few people; could we cuss and make sexual references a bit less out of respect for some others?”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

look im all about turning down the sexual references

but I just want to know how many people complain about the fbombs and in what parts of the blog.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well truth be told,

the game threads are a big place, which makes it a bit ironic that they wound up as exempt zones in the final draft of the new rules. But it’s more pervasive than a “place” — a lot of it is the perception readers have that wherever they are (and they may not know where, as they click various links), there tends to be cussing, lewdness, sex talk…

And I couldn’t even tell you who in every case because some of them are lurkers whose screen names I’ve never heard of.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

My theory: if the lewdness/sex stuff went away

a couple of f bombs wouldn’t really bother anyone.

but maybe thats because i like the latter and not the former.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

You could be right

It’s also possible that if the lewdness/sex stuff went away, some of the profanity would naturally subside as well.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt it.

I don’t think they are really connected. I’m the reverse of DFA. I would miss the sexual innuendo, but I could easily give up the swearing.

Clearly both are bothersome to some people, and not necessarily the same groups of people.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

innuendo is not the issue

any more than an occasion “oh fuck” is. it’s the more blatant stuff. it’s not clever, it’s not funny, it has no place here.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 23, 2010 6:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Are we really allowing lurkers to write our rules though?

I mean, don’t get me wrong, we want to encourage them to join in, but at the same time, it shouldn’t be at the expensive of the regular crowd’s desire for freedom.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

No we shouldn't allow lurkers to write the rules.

Lurkers shouldn’t write the rules, veteran posters shouldn’t write the rules, I shouldn’t write the rules, and you shouldn’t write the rules. BALANCE. Try to reflect a decent compromise, understanding that diversity is not just a gift, it’s also a responsibility to give and take.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

If we all came to a “consensus” of what should be the rule and expected, then that should be the rule. And to be honest, my only issue with what took place was simply a lack of community involvement. In fairness, you’ve done a turnabout and let this thread become that discussion and allowed for it to “write the rule” so to speak. And for that, I really appreciate your willingness to adapt to that. But I did/do take exception that you originally more or less took the rest of us out of the equation and tried to write the rule amongst the mods. I have no issue with you discussing a proposition with them to bring forth, I’m all for that sort of discussion since it gives you a direction to work with. I just wish it had been and in the future would be brought to the community at large to solve the problem.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I appreciate that, but not everything

can/should be decided democratically.

What infuriates me, in my other jobs, is when someone asks for my input and then does whatever they were going to do anyway — basically pretending to be democratic but in fact being dictatorial. Just tell me: Do you want my input? Do you want my vote? Do you just want to tell me how it is?

I try to be clear: some things are up for discussion, some things are up for popular vote, some things are decided and explained. I’ve done all of those at various times and I think I’m always clear about which it is.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good management encourages positive discourse on solving problems.

Ultimately the boss is going to have to make a unilateral decision at times. And it’s entirely fair of them/you to do so. But it’s poor management (to me at least) to completely cut out the staff from the discussion. Specifically and especially when it directly and potentially negatively affects their ability to work. I work in a situation now that doesn’t offer that sort of discourse and I see just how negatively it affects the quality and morale of the department/company.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I really think our only disagreement here

is that from my perspective the public discourse has been had, and from yours it hasn’t, if there hasn’t been as much of it as I thought I apologize.

But it seems to me we’ve been discussing, and dealing with, the “vulgar-sexual-innuendo” problem for a while and that this hardly comes out of the blue and without prior public discussion.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right. That is annoying.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

You could try having a notice and comment period

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's kinda what this

turned out to be.

I think both sides here are to be commended for willingness to find common ground, and for allowing the other side to compromise gracefully.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Journalistic discourse?

Have you not read AN? “Geren sucks” does not qualify as journalistic discourse.

This is supposed to be a place where A’s fans get together and talk about A’s baseball. This isn’t some scholarly convention. In the real world people use real words like fuck and shit. I agree that it is possible to go overboard with the use of those words in a conversation but the answer shouldn’t lie in the outright banning of their use.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then let's not ban their use

Let’s all agree to make AN a place where their use is more judicious.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well making a rule that you shouldn't go overboard with their use

(which I’m fairly certain there already is) should be enough. If someone’s crossing the line, strike. If you’re abusing it, you have to be accountable. If you’re simply using it within acceptable restraint, then no biggie.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's a lot easier to ban them outright than it is to ask someone to use their judgment.

As evident in this thread, people are spread all over the map on where the line is.

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's a lot of gray area there, sure

But I don’t think it’s that difficult for a collective of mods to use their collective judgment to say, you know what, I don’t know where the line specifically is, but you definitely crossed it.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

My view is closer to yours, Nico,

but you can’t just keep saying “it’s not a big deal.” Grover is saying that to him it is a big deal, and I don’t think there’s any question of his sincerity on that point.

Like it or not, we have to accept that this is very important to him. That might not change your decision, ultimately, but as far as this discussion goes I think we’ve reached the point where saying “it’s no big deal” just comes out like trying to tell people like grover that their feelings aren’t legitimate, and that’s not helpful.

(Whereas, in contrast, trying to better understand why it is a big deal to him could be the first step toward finding a solution that makes everyone happy.)

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Quite honestly, it isn't a big deal.

Those who feel it is a big deal are going to realize later that it isn’t actually a big deal and it’s not all that hard to reign in the profanity and still get their point across crystal clear.

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, sorry, I don't mean it's not a big deal, period,

in some absolute way. I mean that if someone’s desire to write a fanpost is swayed 180 degrees by not being allowed to write a cuss word then I can’t, in my attempt to juggle all the wants, needs, interests, and concerns in this diverse and complex community, put that in my “priority” pile and revolve policy around it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, for one thing, if a good AN writing prospect

were to come along yesterday, step into the front page game recap and read a bunch of comments in which the regulars faux-flirt with each other, talk about sex with hobos, and proclaim the joys of boobies, he might well go away thinking, “what the fuck is this shit?” and take his wit and baseball insight elsewhere.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

sex with hobos left.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

what about hobbits?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

you're stll here.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

What?

You think I have a life or something?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

no. I know you don't.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only because this damn site took my life from me
AN: Its Like Crack

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

sex with hobos left!

sex with hobos right!
sex with hobos down the line
fight! fight! fight!

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love you so much, Nick.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

or he might go HOLY CRAP THIS IS AWESOME

and then write some hellaciously long and pretty cool stream of consciousness type posts

and then get promoted to the front page

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who was it?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

does he mean me? the old "thoughts" posts?

because when I wrote those i wasn’t a new visitor taken in by the allowability of vulgarity, I was an old poster returning after three years of self-imposed exile due to what I felt to be censorship relating to the political aspects of the “new stadium” issue.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

point being: you came back

And i stand by that. its equally as valid to say a new poster here will love the banter here ( including the innuendo and swearing) as it is to say a new poster will be turned off by it and not contribute.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 5:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

really?

So when you’re in Macy’s on Union Square and you are looking for the rest room, you feel comfortable walking up to a stranger and saying “Excuse me, tight-ass pussy bitch, can you tell me where in the fuck the motherfucking restroom is at?” instead of the more traditional “Can you direct me to the restroom, please?”

I think new people are more likely to be taken aback by the swearing and sex stuff, and I say that as one of the more profane and overtly naughty AN people, and certainly the naughtiest and most profane of the FP writers anyway.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

wtf is with the straw man arguments today

1. we arent in macys. 2. you know me well enough that i wouldnt say that. 3. we have repeatedly hears that AN is what we help(ed) create however there wasn’t just a “hey knock this crap off” post ever made, then we get told that its not a democracy but its a dictatorship. i take that to mean AN continues to need us to contribute content, views, and traffic, but in the end doeant really care what we think.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 6:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

of course we care what you think

this whole thread is an exercise in taking the temperature of the site about these very sensitive matters. If you read all the way down you’ll see Nico proposing a more self-policing paradigm in lieu of the strictures proposed in his main post, conceived prior to coming to the community with it. In fact, in my discussions with him yesterday I made this point very clearly, that a lock-stock-and-barrel dictum to the community would be taken as a unilateral move towards Nannyism, and he assured me he had tried to go the input route before and nothing had changed, hence the post today. Nico did a knock-it-off post a while back and no one took it to heart, hence today’s more direct directives.

And no we aren’t in Macy’s, but to a new person just arriving at the front page of AN they are a lot more likely to expect Macy’s than they are to expect The Vault (bondage club in downtown NYC with dominatrices and whipping), aren’t they?

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

this whole thread is an exercise in taking the temperature of the site about these very sensitive matters

This is wrong. If that were the case, it would be a proposition of a rule, not a dictated rule.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

see downthread for Nico's proposed revisions

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

The clothing analogies just don't work on me

most of my shirts I got for free :)

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

If were a friend, yes.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

We're BFFs now aren't we?

I brought you a juice box.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

**** ****

woo.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

It was Dannycakes, but now

he’s gone all mainstream and wants to be a respectable sportswriter. I think he’s angling for an ESPN job, like that brown-noser Jeff. “Five numbers you’ll probably want to know”? What a crock of vomit. What ever happened to Jeff on the couch with the knife? What ever happened to winter meetings in Florida? Enjoy all your SBN swag, sell-out.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can I quote DMOAS here
If we wanted to be more creative though
Don’t you think we already would be?

He wrote that below. If there’s diminishing quality of content, aren’t there other factors involved rather than not being able to cuss or having absolute and complete liberty of what to write about?

If anything, since I’ve been regularly visiting for a little more than a year now, the quality of FPs and front-page content has seemed to improve, not decline.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's because there was a real dearth about 16 months ago,

when an acrimonious split occurred, denying us the pleasures of fanposts and front page articles by monkeyball, nevertmoor, salb, mike a, mk74, et al.

Whether they were justified in leaving or not is an entirely different issue, but a good chunk of the “heavies” of this site stopped participating at their previous level.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then I came in

[slide whistle]

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

CS is Meg Whitman?!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

and Poizner started that "other" site

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

I have more money then all of you put together times 100 and have a really bad hairstyle

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can I borrow a bit?

money, not the hair

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

No

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks Meg...you have my vote

of course I haven’t lived in California since 1991 but hey we’ll figure something out.

by sirbed on Jul 22, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

They do offend me.

But I was too shy to say anyhting about it before.

by sunny19 on Jul 22, 2010 12:20 PM PDT reply actions  

What part?

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suck...

I was trying to reply to the smiley-face comment uncle. I will now dig a hole and jump in.

by sunny19 on Jul 22, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Devils Advocate: It doesn't offend me, and I don't have to read stuff I don't want to.

So no offense to you, but why isn’t my opinion of the site just as valid as someone who thinks it’s offensive?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Devils Advocate: It doesn't offend me, and I don't have to read stuff I don't want to.

So no offense to you, but why isn’t my opinion of the site just as valid as someone who thinks it’s offensive?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

And now you've scared shy Sunny away,

you big bully.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pointless.

The die sooner or later anyway.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

She? Is she 19?

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 22, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

So hot right now

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wish I was kidding.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I seriously need to meet her

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

She gave me a list of AN'ers. You're not on it. Sorry.

Oh it’s you. Never mind.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Everyone wants to meet the Chicken

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Especially the Colonel.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Jul 22, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

BRUCK!

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

HA!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Due to the new rules

I can’t call you all the names I want to. Does it count if I write it in Spanish?

by sunny19 on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oooo good point

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

pretty good point

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

joder!

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you one of the good nieces or one of the evil ones?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

evil. Definitely evil.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

If she were good she'd be moony19.

The sun is my enemy. That is why I live here in the cloudy north where it is kept in submission and only let out once or twice a week.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sunny is her own inside joke that I hope she shares some day.

At least I think that’s the case.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sunny the Vampire

I might be in love

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

sunny from buffyvale? she’s got a counterpart somewhere.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, so let me get this straight:

There’s Steph, who was born in 1985. There’s Sunny, who apparently is 19 or at least was recently. And there’s his good luck charm, who I think was 20. Right? Are these three separate nieces? How many more are there?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I posted a list of them last week, I think.

But for now:

glc is 19 (20 in October)

Steph (yes born in ‘85) and Sunny are one and the same. She was born on the 19th. I won’t tell you what month but she was born on the exact same day as Gio.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sunny the Vampire is Steph

Yes, I am in love

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

11 nieces in all, +1 great-niece

ranging from age 1 to age 30.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

All too young for me.

If I wanted a 30-year-old, I’d go for Pam.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Relax. She knows I'm slow.

If I started going for her now, she’d be 31 by the time I get there.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

and when I was single how many did you introduce me to?

thanks for the wingmanning

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't realize you were ever single.

Besides of the four that are older than the 19-year old that you’ve met, three of them are married/engaged. The one that isn’t Bloom and CS are fighting over. Between me and you they’re wasting their time.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

usually im single but dating. Now ive got a gf so ill just grab some popcorn and watch them waste time :-P

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

don't I know it?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I assume you're just flirting for fun

and practice and to add joy to the universe, and not actually a serious suitor.

So long as its done well, and with a sensitivity to the target audience, there is really no age limit for flirting.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

this.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll remember that when I'm 93

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 23, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Heh of all people to get offended

I suspect she’d actually be the last by our language here.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

This sunny19

I may need to get to know her better it seems

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

She's the one who didn't, you know.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

mikev is one of the posters I absolutely enjoy seeing in a thread. He’s hilarious—and cathartic. Part of the hilarity and catharsis comes from his language.

What is this a target as opposed to say “excessive banality”?

by RLangford on Jul 22, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

does cathartic mean alcoholic?

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then I agree!

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what the FCUK I am talking about!

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

AN riot being planned for downtown Oakland today at 6pm

Bring masks, bottles, and bats….we are going to burn the MoFo down!

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's French Connection UK by the way

google it

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess I kinda like it

Swearing isn’t my thing, and I’m not too good at the whole inserting images thing. So no effect on me directly. And I’d rather err on the side of encouraging newcomers than indulging the worst habits of old timers.

My concern is with the complexity. It’s hard enough to remember what the rules are to start with, and harder to remember rules that change as you move from place to place.

My hope is that 1) people will moderate offensive content in their posts in general – just because that’s the decent thing to do – and 2) enforcement will be with a very light touch, at least at first.

Your third place Oakland A's.

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jul 22, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

I also think the different rules in different places will be a problem

Aside from CT threads, which are sort of like AN’s own speakeasy (do I mean that literally or figuratively here?), given how difficult they are to find.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I honestly do not know what the "CT"

in “CT thread” represents. Help! I feel stupid [risks walking into something]

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 22, 2010 12:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Chris Townsend.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chris Townsend

There’s a game-thread style thread during his post-game radio call-in show. The link is posted somewhere in the last gamethread, or in the gamewrap, I think, but you can’t find it any other way, AFAIK.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cold Tomato

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

C*** Thumping.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

win.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would only pertain to us three

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

and apparently we've broken AN.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

like that would be a first

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

just pass me the whiskey

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

okay.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's funny because I don't know if

“c***” stands for c*** or c***. I think it’s better if it’s c***, but either way is good.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Probably depends on how it's used in a sentence.

My ex-wife…never mind.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

And by doing so, I've entirely misrepresented what I tried to say.

Even in good fun.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I pretty much always think it's better when it's c***,

but I know I’m a small minority on that. Me and Erica Jong and …. um, I think that’s it.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's a good way of looking at it, I guess

It’s like South Park or Chappelle’s Show or any other show that constantly bleeps its language. The funny is in the bleep, which sort of does and sort of doesn’t leave something to the imagination. Watching those shows uncensored, you lose a little of the funny.

Although that doesn’t hold true for stand-up specials. I’d rather hear the cursing. Hmmmm…

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

This has got to be the most onanistic blog on the whole internets

I don’t care about swearing, one way or the other (so long as I can still use the word ‘wankbag’); there’s a character of kurt Vonnegut whose professes not to swear as it allows people an excuse to ignore him.

Similar thing going on here?

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 12:28 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

it spills its own seed.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah Onan

my favorite dude in the bible. He who practiced coitus interruptus.

My man!

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

WORDS I HAD TO GOOGLE TODAY

onanistic

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

adjective

   1. Of or pertaining to masturbation
   2. In a manner which suggests masturbation; hence, fruitless, self-congratulatory, self-absorbed, pointless

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

"self-absorbed"?

That would be a neat trick.

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 22, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

But not pointless.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously. What up with that, Webster's?

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

IIRC, it was a minor plotpoint in the late-90s film "Go!"

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I prefer the movie "Stay"

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

conanistic?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

monistat 7

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Strangely enough I knew what it meant

Because monkeyball used it once on AN long ago.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Jul 23, 2010 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

He uses that word every so often.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I believe I win the "let's use really obscure and dated terms" contest this time

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 23, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I chose my words with care

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 12:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nick brings up a valid point.

With restrictions in place, it will provide us with an opportunity to come up with fun phrases like “wankbag.”

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or we can come up with plausible-seeming but meaningless profantities

M***r**k G**e*b**s!

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like it!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

where, I wonder, does the word 'cocksock' hit into this firmament of foulness?

it’s a both an item of clothing (and a very important one, in these days of ozone depletion) and a fun word to say

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I love that word firmament

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Woo! Cocksock rocks!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

But ya'll remember

I have the copyright on any “cluck” word or usage. Including, but not limited to: “cluck you”, “cluck off”, “bob geren is a motherclucker” and so forth.

I’m putting people on notice. Any and all usage of said words or similar (and I will be final judge on if it breaks my copyright) will be handled by my lawyers “Bloomie, Wacco and Ralph”

Thank you

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about Bob Cluck?

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is a distant relative and I personally gave him and his extended family

the right to use said name as long as he is alive and he doesn’t try to muscle in on any profits or future profits I may look into or receive

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

cluck that

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

My lawyers will be in touch sir

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

those cluckwads

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Strike two

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your clucking lawyers can take their

clucking copyright and cluck themselves with it.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

LMAO, iglew

Your third place Oakland A's.

by eastcoasta'sfan on Jul 23, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

my point exactly

how would you like HIM on your a$$

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWHS

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 22, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

good point

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

bob loblaw?

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Jul 22, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

ah, yes, the famous bob loblaw law blog.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is exactly what I had in mind this morning

in the post above:

I see such censorship as an invitation for more creative expression not less.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

And I see saying "I hate the motherfucking Yankees"

as direct and to the point. Creativity is wonderful… but so is honesty.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Particularly brutal.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

and in a shared environment, who's mores take precedence?

In your home, you get to yell that all you want.
When you come to my home, it depends on who is awake at the time.
Other houses, it’s bad all the time.

At AN, we’re still working out what type of home it is. And can there be areas where it’s OK, others where not.

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

"we’re still working out what type of home it is"

No. N*** is changing what type of home it is.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

hehe

rec’d

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 22, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Folks are complaning

asking for clarification,
making arguments for their choices.
I call it working it out, in a general sense. Community standards evolve.

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

If we wanted to be more creative though

Don’t you think we already would be?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

The fact that censorship engenders creativity is true enough...

Oppressive regimes have always brought out creativity…and of course, the extreme censorship of the Hollywood Production Code after 1934 forced screenwriters to find new (and often) better ways to say things.

It is very true that a lack of censorship brings about greater coarseness.

But that’s still no excuse for it.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Excellent answer.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think of Brazil in the mid-1960s

and how the Tropicalismo movement happened when the military regime tried to institute censorship of left-wing ideas.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem is, though,

that the writer’s real message may be so obscured or sublimated that audiences don’t recognize it. So tropicalia was/is often mistaken for feathery, slick bossa nova.

Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"

by Ray of Lite on Jul 23, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

And what do all your modernists have to say about

the idea of “the writer’s real message”?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see the inconsistency between my comments that you apparently see

Specifically, I don’t see an inconsistency between (1) the idea that there is an identity of medium and message, and (2) the idea that an artist may intend to convey some specific message. The tropicalistas, working under the regime EN referred to, settled upon a style that was inoffensive both musically and lyrically. Their poetry was coded — a Trojan Horse to smuggle in protests against that regime — but the message was there. To what extent people understood that message is another matter.

If you mean to be all post-modern and dismiss the idea that there’s such a thing as a “real message,” please point me to the artist who, deep down, isn’t trying to say something in particular about the world. They may experiment with form, they may assume the indeterminacy of language, they may incorporate random processes, whatever, but they are trying to convey something specific.

Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"

by Ray of Lite on Jul 23, 2010 5:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

CT threads

I think were purposely put behind the curtain for obvious reasons. They can be found under Sections, under Overflow Threads.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 12:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Old Farts Like the Idea

I don’t think anybody is going to jump on someone for saying a few choice words now and then, but if somebody can’t write a simple sentence with every other word being profanity, what does that really say about them? I think it’s a good move.

The greenmachine

by greenmachine on Jul 22, 2010 12:57 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Couldn't have said it better

I never read a comment until I see who wrote it, and if it is the usual suspects I never read it.
I come from a place where civility, intelligence and good writing was the measure of a person, and any one who had to resort to gutter language and unintelligible thoughts to express their American right of free speech was measured accordingly, like ignore them completely.

by Laoren on Jul 22, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I can see why you left that place

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

he/she/it

skipped over your comment or “like ignored you completely”

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

To repeat a question I asked of Nico upthread...

Is the policy described above re: posting pictures on Game Threads a new policy or simply a description of the current policy?

If it is a new policy, what counts as an “edgy” picture?

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

this one?

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm flagging that just on general purposes

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's fair enough

I nearly did myself

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is it as obvious to everyone else at this exact moment that The Edge is quite possibly same-sex oriented?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

looks a little like Les Claypool in that photo

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

All of U2 is

just sayin

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

so, is the band name really a question they're asking?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

hilarious

(wonders why he spent several thousands on bootleg cd’s and tickets)

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

in the immortal words of casey kasem: “they’re from england and who gives a F***?!”

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

i love negativeland

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes

by Future Ed on Jul 22, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I mean

I gotta read this comin’ out of an uptempo song and it’s about someone’s damn dog dying??!?

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

poor poor snuggles.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

from 5 o'clock in the morning

‘til 10 O’clock at night!! Give up!! Give up!!! Communism is good!! Communism is good!!!!

Christ-i-an-i-ty is Stupid!!

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Helter Stupid

is pure genius… what those guys did is almost too intelligent for humans.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's like bizzarro-me.

What I do is almost too stupid for humans.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

oyu're not nearly as dumb as you convince yourself you are mikey

click the song, it’s a classic for all times

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

what they did after the song is beyond genius

Nutshell version: They wanted to do a US tour but didn’t have the $, so they made up, out of whole cloth, a story about how this kid that axe-murdered his whole family in an “argument over music” had in fact been listening to that song. The murders were real but their story about it was totally contrived, yet they sent out press releases to radio and TV stations and magazines like Rolling Stone, sort of vaguely associating the song with the killings.

Needless to say, every media outlet picked it up and ran with it… Channel 5 here in SF even had A WEEKLONG SERIES about it!!! So the Negitivland dudes essentially recorded every tidbit of media about the hoax and turned it into an album in its own right, called Helter Stupid… the $ from the record and controversy that got them attention gave them the resources to do their tour.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

awesome

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

OKAY THAT WAS EERIE

as I was reading that reply, that ATT commercial with the Nick Drake song came on.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I may be a pedant

but I am a true music expert, no use denying it.

Poor Nick, if he’d have lived he’d own the continent of Australia by now with all the uses of his tunes in big corporate advertisements.

Did you get my Caetano Veloso comp, cleverly entitled “In Exile, On Acid and In English”? You know you’re singing the right thing when the military junta throws you outta the country, I am just saying.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

whereas I'm a complete musical idiot

so I rely on being friends with folks like you to listen to new stuff.

Like seriously. My mp3 player is still full of metallica, pantera, pennywise, and flogging molly.

oh and the beatles, but i’m sick of them.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah I have a lotta music here

probably like 400 TB or some sick amount like that.

At some point it was either heroin or music, and I chose music cuz needles scare the crap outta me.

I can’t get sick of them Beatles, esp. the George H tunes like Savoy Truffle and Piggies, the latter of which I heard when I was approximately 2 years old and has in all likelihood shaped my worldview since.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

well, like I said -- musical idiot

so I grabbed the full library when it got released last year or whenever it was.

I mean there’s definitely a lot of it that I like, but the early “boy band” style pop rock stuff isn’t really my bag.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah my Beatles vibe

is definitely 1966-1970 almost exclusively

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

No Rubber Soul?

I’m not the biggest fan of the stuff before that, but not Rubber Soul?

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 22, 2010 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

ah, Danny

I’d say my Beatles bag is Rubber Soul——>Abbey Road

I also like the solo stuff, like All Things Must Pass and Ram and Mind Games.

I am a huge progressive, post-Beatles guy but you know that already. Today I drove my roommates crazy with a pre-FM recording of a full Genesis concert from 6/10/1976, with Bruford guesting on drums.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

In an effort to derail this thread,

Have you ever heard of Vaganza, EN? I recently found their album again. I think they’re great and I wish they had ‘made it’ and were still making music.

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

never heard of them

what kinda music are they?

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wikipedia describes it as

“a somewhat detached, ironic, self-aware, and decidedly excessive/theatrical art-rock-pop duo consisting of multi-instrumentalists David Longworth Wallingford and Quigley.”

You can download their only album from missinglabel.

by LoneStranger on Jul 22, 2010 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

ah, what's a thursday

without some excessively theatrical art pop, I ask you?

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

it's a Thursday that has you

praying for Friday to come, I’ll tell ya.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait another 21 minutes.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am a music pedant/expert

but only if you exclude all music with guitars and/or microphones.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, haven't been around --

The intention is for the parameters to stay exactly the same, i.e., “simply a description of the current policy.” One of the mods requested I not use the term NSFW so I tried to think of a word that approximated the current guidelines. Whatever word that actually is should read in place of “edgy”! How about “already not allowed”?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's always been my understanding

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

same

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, I had written NSFW

Someone (I can’t remember who, actually) asked me not to use that term so I didn’t.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone asked me....

…that’s key.

Someone asks me not to do something, I’m cool with it. Someone tells me and orders me, and plans to punish me if I don’t do something, that’s not very cool.

Too bad you can’t see that.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

You must really hate red lights!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Unfortunately I am at work right now.

Otherwise, I’d be googling for pictures that are Not So Fucking Wimpy.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oops. I would have, too. Slipped up.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification, Nico.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Nico! n/t

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Spelling and grammar flags

Can we have a special flag for use on fanposts and comments that include offensive spelling, punctuation, or grammar errors? For example, you can flag me if you’re offended by my use of the serial comma in the previous sentence. A “grammar-flagged” comment wouldn’t need to be reviewed to determine what style guidelines or common writing traditions have been violated; it would just make some of us feel good to flag them because, well, they’re offensive. If people who make errors or are just lazy get upset and go away, then the whole site will look smarter! The click$ will be rolling in.

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 1:37 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Oh no!

In comes the…

GRAMMAR NAZIS!

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Um, Chickie,

that would be “in come.”

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

stop stepping on my creative use of language and spelling

YOU NAZI!

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

But:

how will we tell the difference between the “creative use of language and spelling” people from the “I don’t know my English grammer from a whole in the ground” folks? (I hope “but” isn’t on the list of words I can’t use here.)

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

dunno

I ain’t that smart

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...I might not be smart enough to stay on this thread

but if we start getting flagged for grammar I’ll be banned by Sunday.

by sirbed on Jul 22, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

If grammar and spelling became an issue for reals like

I’d leave in 5 seconds

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey I teach history not English...I can barely read

but mainly it’s because I type the first thing that pops in my head and I type too fast…I wish there was an edit button.

by sirbed on Jul 22, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

no edit button

is so people like you can be banned

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

No sirbed

you are f**ked

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Awful food

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I tried Fuddruckers once.

I appreciated that the burgers tasted like all the fat had been wringed out of the meat.

Seriously, I really did like that. I hate fat.

But I don’t think I count as a burger connoisseur. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’m not a connoisseur of anything culinary.

My favorite restaurant is the Country Kitchen Buffet. I eat like an old fogey. My only complaint is that they close too early.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

Blech.

I’m no fat-o-phile, but that’s way out on the culinary lunatic fringe. There’s a reason why Kobe beef goes for like $100 a pound…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because it has fat in it?

On the rare occasions when I fry up ground beef, I not only spoon out all the excess grease, I wrap the remainder in paper towel and squeeze out as much more as I can manage.

But generally I do ground turkey instead, where it’s usually sufficient to wipe out excess grease directly from the frying pan.

News flash: Iglew is way out on the culinary lunatic fringe.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not just HAVING fat,

it’s mixing the fat in with the protein in a (putatively, I’m nowhere near flush enough to eat the stuff) delicious manner.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I found a resturant where i can get Waygu where I work

its so fucking good.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

FLAGGED.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

We had a game thread once where we typed a random letter and then posted the first thing on the drop down list.

didn’t even have to think on that one!

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope he's just making a joke

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

HI POPPY!!

I miss you around here.

(leaves AN due to sunlight)

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

HI O2B!!

The dated nature of your nickname offends me.

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

CG

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

V

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

ME

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

only if there is an edit button

what’s the point flagging spell/grammar stuff if the commenter can’t fix it.

by MobiusKlein on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pedantry is its own reward

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Much like onanism, I might add

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

How is that pronounced?

PEH-dantry.

Or, peh-DAN-try?

Pedants want to know.

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

tomato

toMAHto

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

good point

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

orange you glad I didn't say banana?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Always money in the banana stand.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's because you're friends with that miscreant cookie thief Chicken.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

don't forget an unhealthy reliance upon sock puppets.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cold dead hands + sock puppets

= zombies!!!!!

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zombie....sock puppets?!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

ACK!!! RUN!!!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

BOOBS!

sorry, just keeping up my “catch LB in the comments” campaign

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah good luck with that

maybe if 6 or 58 of us teamed up under 1 name we could catch him.

by sirbed on Jul 22, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

My new catch phrase will be COOKIES!

to replace BOOBIES because they both rock my socks off

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am flagging this

and tossing your cookie comment out

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please don't toss the cookies

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've got the batter

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I even have my own theme music

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ya hoser

can I say that?

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are lots of words that

secretly mean boobies. “Cupcakes”, for example.

Life is more fun when you know all the secret words.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Huh. I use that one.

Actually it started on date at an A’s game. Blanton was pitching. She was the one that turned Cupcakes into something else.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cupcakes is traditionally code

for smaller sized ones, used by those who prefer them that way.

Cookie, on the other hand is something else. Same as tweet.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Always monKey in the banana stand

Rookie mistake, LB. Rookie mistake.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

hmmm. gp.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

they're not the only fruit

I suspect that you think tilting at windmills means something other than what it does.

The ninth fastest thirty year old in San Francisco

by bobnothing on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

potato

poTAHto

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought DAN wanted to know...

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 22, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

sigline!

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

strange, I thought of you when I read it ,too...

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who gives a f*** about an Oxford comma?

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

.

:-)

"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

by YonYonson on Jul 22, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

this would be so much better if the subject line was actually a comma

Im just saying

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

True

I’m just happy that I’m not alone in my dislike of the Oxford/serial comma.

"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

by YonYonson on Jul 22, 2010 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the comma, but

I like tweaking people who are adamant about it even more. Especially when they falsely claim their way is the only one that prevents ambiguity.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's just how I was raised

I acknowledge the faults of AP style, but thanks to some mean copy editors, it’s been pretty much beaten into me.

"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

by YonYonson on Jul 23, 2010 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like--and use--the Oxford/Harvard/serial comma.

I think it adds to a sentence’s clarity, elegance, and grammatical correctness!

(That being said, I don’t insist on it in others.)

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Flag comment for:

[ ] spam
[ ] troll
[ ] inappropriate
[ ] profanity
[ ] illiterate
[ ] actually there’s nothing wrong with it; it just pisses me off

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

LMAO

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very clever!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would add

[ ] incomprehensible
but perhaps that is the same as your “illiterate”

by el generico on Jul 24, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Only if the comment turns red

And a link to a random fake AP style guide tweet is inserted.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the smurf?

I can have a smurfing good time without using smurf words smurf you very much.

I don’t mind the “new” rules but I don’t swear (unless you count frick, freaking, crap, screw, or pissed) so it doesn’t affect me as much.

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm pretty late to the party.

What I haven’t read much about and am still unsure of is references to God (or other religious verbiage) in these new guidelines. I’m far more offended by exclamations of “Jesus Christ” in some form than the other expletives mentioned. There seems to be (mostly) agreement on language related to race. Is it ok to refer to Allah, Mohammed, Yahweh, or Buddha? I won’t type examples, but I’m sure you can fill in the blanks. I know the usage of Jesus is more prevalent in English vernacular than the others I mentioned, but I would avoid all those words. Of course, maybe that’s just me, being older and all.

JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker

by JJ Martin on Jul 22, 2010 2:09 PM PDT reply actions  

David DeJesus!

"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jesus's name is used a lot -- by the countless people who've approached me over the years to proselytize

Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"

by Ray of Lite on Jul 22, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's only legal in Nevada, you know.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWSS

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 23, 2010 5:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe SBN should install filters on language like Fark.com

Fark has been around for like 10 years or more, and is highly successful, even with filtering of comments. People type anything they like, and the filters will render it as the site admins would prefer. Examples of fark filters:
the usual f-word: ‘fark’
the usual s-word: ‘shiat’
a female dog: ‘biatch’
a very offensive racial epithet that starts with n: ‘attractive and successful African-American’
“first post”: ‘boobies’ (also, time stamped to be 30 minutes later than the last comment in the thread)

Actually, I think this whole thing is silly, but to each their own.

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 2:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Here's my take, as a mod who probably sits in the middle of the "swear frequency" spectrum.

AN started as an online sports bar where people could come together and discuss the team. It is no longer that. Sure, part of AN, a large part, is the game threads, where the same sports bar atmosphere resides. But AN is no longer just a sports bar any more. We’ve evolved into a sports media destination, if you will, with a sports bar still attached on the side. Our front page articles are syndicated to a huge variety of media outlets, like Sports Illustrated, Yahoo!, and CBS Sports. We’ve been interviewed and mentioned in some of the giants of sports media. And our content should reflect that in its tone. We’ve kinda grown up.

And yet, in the sports bar game threads, we’re still allowing pretty much everything that went on before. That’s still intact.

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I'm tempted to sign up for two new user IDs,

so I can turn that comment green all by myself if I have to.

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

No need

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just greened it

Although, I like the idea of three Poppys around here, especially if we have no idea who the other two are.

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like this idea too

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just like saying Poppy

its fun

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

ChickenStanley is right up there

but things ending in “y” generally sound and are more fun. That is why I’ve always dated women named Chrissy, Tammy, Jenny, Missy, etc.

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Booby

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Missy"?

Did you wake up today and decide that you were going to offend me in every possible way?

by Poppy on Jul 22, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Poppy + Missy

= Pissy

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Moppy?

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

good

you can’t handle AN After Dark

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

shoot...poppy?!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes, Don. Yes, she is.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who doesn't?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

What would LB think of sockPoppies?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

they're cuddly!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

His head would explode.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is anyone truly disenfranchised when they can't make arguments without cuss words?

Or just too unimaginative or lazy to write with better diction?

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

No Blogger Left Behind

has failed. ;-(

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate this argument

Why are you intentionally limiting yourself to a subset of words? The whole point of using words like fuck and shit is to impart a force of shock. Their value is clearly cheapened when people use them every third word, but to claim that ever using them is only due to laziness and lack of imagination is condescendingly rude of you.

by rrryanc on Jul 22, 2010 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

On top of which

there is literally no non-vulgar transitive English verb which means “to fuck.”

Seriously. Try thinking of one. Every single polite-ish term for sex is intransitive (have sex, make love, have intercourse). The transitive verbs (screw, bonk, sex-used-as-a-verb, shag) are without exception not permissible in journalistic discourse.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

fornicate?

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also intransitive

When Harry Fornicated Sally? Doesn’t work.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Especially for Meg Ryan

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

www.instantrimshot.com

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

im here all week

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

"When Harry murder-suicided Sally," perhaps

Or as is commonly the case, “when Harry attempted to kill Sally and she played dead so he would go away.”

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

or in the Shakespearean case

“When Harry Attempted To Kill Sally And She Played Dead So He Would Roll Over And Fall Asleep Sooner”

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

O happy dagger!

This is thy sheath; there rust, and let me die.

You know you’re exaggerating, though, right? It was a relatively common slang term, but it didn’t always mean that. Less so than “come” today. Yes, a great many double entendres are built around the word, but it’s still true that the great majority of uses of the word aren’t sexual at all.

Also “die” ≠ “kill”.

I saw R&J last week. I love that play but I had forgotten how filthy it is. Seriously, it is more packed with dirty jokes than any primetime sitcom.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

all of Shakespeare, including the sonnets, are loaded with sex and dirty jokes.

As is John Donne, Cervantes, Chaucer, Dante…but we need to curtail that here. So as to be proper.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's only true if you have a very broad

sense of “vulgar”. In your list, I would say that neither “shag” nor “boink” is particularly vulgar. I would say “lay”, as a transitive verb, is even less so. If you allow a multi-word phrase there is “knew in the Biblical sense”.

If your point is that these are not permissible in journalistic discourse, my first thought is that that says more about journalism’s silly standards than about the English language, and my second thought is that in journalism “dated” qualifies as a synonym for “fucked”, since everyone knows that when the gossip columns say so-and-so is “dating” so-and-so that’s what they really mean.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have a feeling that if you asked most women if they would like to be referred to

as a shaggee/boinkee, they would not be terribly thrilled about hearing their partner refer to their… congress in that manner. And I’m not sure “lay” is even available for women.

Journalism may have silly standards but people are talking about importing journalistic standards into the blog, so it’s hardly an idle concept.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Point taken.

I will backtrack and acknowledge that this is an interesting feature about our language.

It tells us something about how we think. Vocabulary is created by a population, not imposed upon it. Even if a non-vulgar transitive verb meaning fuck were invented, it would no doubt take on a vulgar connotation very quickly, simply because that’s what we as a language-united culture do to that word-concept.

Just as a hated ethnic group is obliged to invent a new positive name every few years as the old term is turned into a slur. Or just as of the dozens of words for female genitalia all are either clinical or derogatory, with none that are actually positive as in, say, Italian.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Per NPR

“Fuck” is actually an acronym.

Fornicate is one of the older sex words (derived from roman ovens, which were apparently used by prostitutes post-fall as warm inviting spaces). English kings limited the amount of sex people could have due to population / peasant uprising concerns.

FUCK = Fornicating Under Consent of King

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Me too.

AN is educational. And cheaper than college. Where was this place 15 years ago….

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hadn't noticed

{looks around for you know who}

Ok, I had.

{looks again}

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

[pst...me too]

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

me 3

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Urban myth

It’s a retronym. “Fuck” is derived from a Germanic root that goes back far beyond the English monarchy.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

This comment

along with nevermoor’s, are examples of why I enjoy AN.

"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

by YonYonson on Jul 22, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

If NPR said that, it repeated a folk myth.

The “for unlawful carnal knowledge” one is also a myth.

As a general rule, any acronymic etymology that purports to be from earlier than the 1930s is false.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Egads

Pretty embarrassing for the guy then, since he wrote a book about etymology.

Do we know if the fornicate part is right?

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

The fornicate part is half correct.

The common root word is fornix which in its older sense is an arch or a vault. The same word came to mean a brothel, possibly because the prostitutes would solicit from the archways of certain public buildings.

From the fornix derives fornus/furnus=oven (whence, eventually, our furnace), presumably because of the shape of the large early ovens.

To say that the prostitutes dallied in ovens because they are warm is muddled, but on the right track at least.

I’m not sure who you’re talking about who wrote a book about etymology, but many who write such books (or newspaper columns) are charlatans. They often go unchallenged because in general fake etymology is more entertaining than real etymology.

Even some writers who I think are mostly respectable (eg, Mario Pei, William Safire) tend to get carried away and often succumb to se non è vero, è ben trovato.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

No idea who it was

And the story was that the forni(?) were in bad shape post-Rome therefore made great prostitute hangouts.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 23, 2010 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Found it!!

http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R201007201000

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 23, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Huh, never heard of the guy,

but he certainly sounds like someone more interested in a good story than serious etymology.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that. You’ll surely sell more books being entertaining than being accurate. And ditto for grammar mavens.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Listening now.

He’s a romantic, a poet, lover of beauty and myth. Poets are allowed to have a creative relationship with truth.

(But aack! Random House! Proves my point. Stay away from Random House, kids.)

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, just got to the fornix part.

The way he tells it is a little closer than how nevermoor repeated it here, but still embellished. And the acronym bit was just wrong.

He’s also plain wrong when he says the word for mother starts with M in every major language except Japanese. This assertion was intriguing to me, but when I investigate it just doesn’t hold up. Lots of exceptions. Pretty much it’s just Chinese plus all the Indo-European languages, which is hardly surprising since they’re all related.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

A lot of Japanese kids actually do say "Mama" and "Papa"

No doubt due to Western influence, but still

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jul 23, 2010 2:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

In pre-Westernized Japanese,

I believe “mama” referred to the female proprietor of a brothel…

There’s kind of an obvious counterexample right in the middle of Europe. “Mama” in Hungarian (a non-Indo-European language) is “Anya”.

Lazy.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 23, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

what about “did?” is it not fair to use a helping verb?

and then there’s rape or violate. but geez, those do carry a lot of extra baggage.

penetrate? if penis isn’t a root word there somehow, it at least sounds like it. sound associations do weigh in a little on meaning, no?

but i do wonder why the emphasis on transitive? copulate, mate, consummate, couple.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 23, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oops. "Sincere"

Another unsubstantiated folk etymology repeated.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

scot-free

has nothing to do with the Scottish. That’s a “false friend”, like they discussed earlier with niggardly. A scot is a type of tax.

The caller near the end of the show pronounces flossy-nossy- the way I do, unlike the guest, earlier in the program, who had some weird artificial-sounding pronunciation.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 2:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sounds like a lot of mistakes for one segment

I’m honestly a little depressed.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 23, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Flossy-nossy-nihili-pili-fication?

That’s what I do when I hear about this sort of book.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 23, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Poets like Eddie Van Halen?

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

a fun thing to do would be to set up a site that debunks

in a humorous, fictitious way, all the debunkings of snopes.com.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

ISWYDT
English kings limited the amount of sex people could have due to population / peasant uprising concerns

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 23, 2010 5:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Knew" in the Biblical sense

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 23, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I read a lot

Books, blogs, scientific/technical journals; — lots of stuff. Maybe for every 50 items I read, I find 3 that contain swear words. The 47 that don’t cuss aren’t lacking for profundity, and the 3 that aren’t are also not unusually profound.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have you read much David Mamet?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sexual Perversity in Chicago's a fav.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was she a pro?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 24, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

ugh, i'd rather read yet another explanation of what moneyball is really about than all these comments about how AN started out as an online sports bar

what the hell does that even mean? why is it true, just because blez once said that’s what it was?

in my experience sports bars are full of drunk idiots who can barely formulate a proper sentence and have no ability to engage in rational debates. given the decline in the quality of the content around here what does that say about “sports media destinations”?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jul 22, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

I don't really drink much

can I still be one of the idiots?

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

you are way ahead of us there OP

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks!

wait. what?

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

In a way he got the sports bar he always said he wanted even though it was just a metephor marketing slogan in the first place.

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

...pretend that is blockquoted....

With stout hearts, and with enthusiasm for the contest, let us go forward to victory. ----Hero Defector Montgomery

by mikeA on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

or that

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

to George Steinbrenner

Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Although I'm siding with mods in general on this,

I happen to think the whole “respectable sports media” sub-argument is total bullshit. If indeed it is true that AN has become popular with the mainstream media, it’s only because we’ve got the readership numbers that makes them salivate. And the reason we have those numbers is because we aren’t inane and stupid like the rest of the sports media. If this is indeed what has happened, then to intentionally make ourselves inane and stupid in order to “reflect that tone”, that would be a thoroughly bone-headed move.

If I thought this shift in policy were all about being a responsible member of the mainstream sports media, I would be as vigorously opposed as anyone here. But in fact, I don’t think it’s about that at all, so I’m not.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

So in a game thread I can still say?

I got some beef between two hot buns at Fuddruckers last night.

by sirbed on Jul 22, 2010 2:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Shoot, you could say that in a front page headline.

Advertising’s still okay, sirbed.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

just make sure you get paid

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dr. K, I like you.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

hahahahahahahahaha

"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."

by lenscrafters on Jul 22, 2010 3:06 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

day off today

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Off-days suck, don't they?

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SUPPOSITORIES

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

We must have reeeeeeeally different definitions of "content"!

I believe, in fact, that I’ve been completely true to my word on that.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Content, in this context, is the stuff below the headline

Which grover, for example, would have to change under this policy.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, sorry then --

I should have said “…though I’m not ok with writers typing out profanities in their articles.” The same is true of epithets, but I don’t consider it “controlling or suppressing content” if I were to tell a writer, "Nice piece, but could you change “n****” to “African-Americans”?

What I was referring to was that there would be front page writers who could decide what to write about, could write in a variety of styles and beliefs, not worrying about how the A’s, or Billy Beane, or Kevin Kouzmanoff’s dad might feel about a POV, with no interference from me. And that has happened.

You’re nitpicking to the point of suggesting that if an editor says, “Take out the comma in the last sentence on page 103,” you could reasonably reply, " I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO REWRITE MY NOVEL!!!"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Funny, one of your old - and quite good - authors disagrees

Having never been one of your authors, and not wanting to be, I’m going to leave it at that.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even my old authors would have to confess, if being honest,

that I have quite literally never suppressed content, ever. (Unless I’m forgetting something, obviously), in my time as blogfather I have, one time, apologized privately to someone about a front page article in which they were mentioned — leaving the post up in its entirety — which is most certainly NOT suppressing or controlling content. And that’s the only time I can even recall getting “involved” in a post.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

You telling me what I can or cannot write in a fanpost is suppressing content

“Oh, but it’s for the good of all!”

Yeah, repressing the individual is always what’s best for the group.

But anywho… we’re not having a disagreement. I’ll follow the house rules. I feel like the house rules infringe on my ability to write fanposts, therefore, I won’t be writing anymore fanposts. I’ll find other outlets for my creativity.

Gotta question though. Since you are in essence telling your writing staff what they can or cannot say on the front page… are they getting paid for the privilege of having “someone” look over their shoulder? Because if iglew is right and this is in anyway about the economics of growing the site than I hope you’re sharing the wealth… as it were.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know, this is probably all moot anyway because

it looks like (last I scrolled) we’re removing all these rules in favor of a good faith commitment by the community to self-monitor enough to keep everyone comfortable. And I don’t think some random cuss word in some random fanpost of yours would be any issue (it certainly wouldn’t be to me). If things can just calm down generally, through a willingness to be a bit mindful, then all’s well that ends well.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

youre not the author

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of what?

I’m saying it sounds like grover can fulfill his dream of writing a fanpost in which the inspired use of the word “motherf***er” can appear.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Victory and freedom for all!!!

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa, whoa, whoa, what?

How did I get associated with the economic argument?

Was it my discussion about bringing in new blood? That has nothing at all to do with money. I’m not sure what else I’ve said that could possibly be construed that way.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hm

So I roll in for about the third time in two months, and the front page thread is this?

Inappropriate link.

I doubt anyone needs my analysis on this rule, as I can see it’s already been done— it’s a rule which puts moneymaking ahead of content, which is crappy if you like content but completely predictable if you, like me, believe that pretty much anything that can make someone more money will eventually be done regardless of how much they once protested that they would never do something like that.

It actually makes you wonder why companies make those kind of pronouncements, since they don’t have to. The only conclusion that I can come up with is that people’s short-term gullibility exceeds, in profit-making potential, their long-term sense of betrayed confidence.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 3:57 PM PDT reply actions   4 recs

It's a shame you won't be sticking around

Since, well, that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but, well, it is what it is. If this is, in fact, the future of media, I guess it makes sense. You wouldn’t expect to see lewd snark and colorful language in the Chronicle. (And, not surprisingly, the Chronicle kind of sucks. No offense to the Sluss.)

the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy

by walk off bunt on Jul 22, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Susan sees and hears all, WoB. Don't doubt her powers.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

And enjoys.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I didn't say I wouldn't be sticking around

I’m useless as a poster right now because I don’t see any games (east coast + no television) and don’t want to risk spending time on the site while I’m at my place of employment (so I can’t even serve a role as “general-purpose extreme bullshit detector”) and have little free time.

I’ve just been checking in periodically, basically to see if anyone’s been traded or whatever.

Besides, I’d suggest to anyone who would actually be tempted to leave the site over this to just ignore the rule instead. Civil disobedience works better than anakhoresis.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oooh, awesome word!

Paul, my only true rival as king of the AN hapax legomena.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

i like the word orthography! (anachoresis)

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Christ, what anakhoresis

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 22, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, you just spoiled the legomenonity!

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude. Get mlb.tv

It’s served me well for four years out east.

the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy

by walk off bunt on Jul 22, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would also have to get a magic wonder drug that cures the effect of only getting 5 hours of sleep a night

I’m sort of trying to make sure I avoid obvious no-nos like falling asleep in my office…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know,

whatever other problems it has, Western civilization produces some really [censored] awesome scientists.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

sal says hi.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can see the usefulness of that in the short term,

but in the larger sense, such a drug seems about as appealing to me as chemical castration.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good god, this has NOTHING to do with money.

Nothing. Seriously. It has everything to do with AN’s mission to be a diverse and welcoming place where everyone can feel comfortable. I don’t even know if this is more likely to make AN/SBN more money, less money, or the same amount of money, and I don’t care. You’d think by now people would get this about me.

Nice to see you, by the way. Hope you’ll be back around.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's the problem you're not seeing

Academics miss this point, too, by the way. You’re not the only one.

Seeking readership and seeking money produce the same outcomes in a situation, like this one, where readership and money are directly (and essentially one-to-one) correlated. To protest that it’s not about money is simply beside the point, because there’s no practical difference. The only way in which it would be on point is if someone had argued that you were personally untrustworthy. I suppose there are probably a few people who believe that, but they’re not arguing it on this thread anyway.

It’s like if you cut someone off with your car just as you were passing the exit to the Coliseum, and then when they complain about ballgame drivers you tell them that you were actually going to the airport instead. Maybe so, but the car still has the same dent in it.

You’ve picked the wrong field, I’m afraid. There are plenty of fields where the market disagrees with most actual humans (high finance, politics). When a smallish minority controls a majority of resources, the market will disagree with “the populace.” Unfortunately, here the resources are eyeballs, and everyone’s only got two of ’em.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   4 recs

{blinks hard}

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

{flagged}

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 22, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah. PTs intellect is about an 8

I’m a 2.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 5:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah but what I'm saying is tha

I would prefer to have fewer readers on a site I could stand behind than to have more readers on a site I can’t. “Readers” and “Money” may correlate, but “Quality” and “Money” don’t always. I’m interested in keeping AN a place that has quality, community, and class, even if that means it is less profitable than it could be. And Blez knows that; he may not share that POV (you’d have to ask him) but he knows that about me. I was 100% up front about that before I accepted the gig.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Says the man who built his presence on goat jokes

But has, to be fair, moved on.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Gosh, I kinda hope I built my presence on baseball analysis

But I guess we won’t know for sure until my eulogy.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

So you didn't make constant goat jokes until quite recently?

Or you consider them classy?

(My point, if it is not obvious, is that this site has never been “classy” in the traditional sense, not that you’re a horrible person for making those jokes.)

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I haven't made them for a long time, actually.

It’s funny how people don’t realize this. I haven’t instigated those jokes on more than a “once in a blue moon” basis for 1-2 years. 99% of the jokes/references are other people making comments (which obviously I can’t control), and I usually ignore those comments so as not to encourage them.

I’m kind of amused, actually, that so few people seem to notice this. “Well a goat joke was certainly made!” “Yeah, well, not by me…”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

wait, those were JOKES?

oh, man am I disappointed.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

First of all, that doesn't really change the point

Second of all, you certainly still reference them. (albeit no longer in the form of explicit acts)

To reiterate, you became a front page guy (and, if memory serves, the head one) while the shtick was active. Whatever else that was it wasn’t classy (I assume you’d agree), but it was fine in the context of the site then. Your appeal to the site’s classy past, therefore, is suspect/false.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Your examples are ridiculous!

That I read a sig line that says “Goals on Film” and misread it as “Goats on Film” (which I actually did), and comment such is an example of classless lewdness? I mean come ON!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, it's not

And you know that because I said it above.

You reference your old behavior. More examples.

Of course, it’s now clear that you’re intentionally missing my point, so I’ll stop here.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your examples demonstrate that

Nico needs to do a better job of avoiding occasional relapses. I surely agree with that, and I’m pretty sure he would, too.

However, your earlier suggestion that he “make[s] constant goat jokes until quite recently” is definitely false.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

well depending on your definition of recently

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

We're baseball fans

“Recently” is “since the last pitch.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

well you made a bleating joke just this thread so....

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

So? In what way, shape, or form

could it possibly be construed as offensive?

grover made a comment in which the word goat appeared and I replied by changing “beat” to “bleat” in a common phrase. Just like if you asked whether I had the ingredients for a salad and I replied “Lettuce see…” and you said “Forget it, I don’t really carrot all.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

because its a reference to the fact that you use to make those jokes

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

which is true.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

What's this about appeal to a "classy past"?

When I was in my 20s I was frequently an obnoxious argumentative asshole. I strive to be better than that now. How is one’s flawed past an argument against any a program for improvement in the present?

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m interested in keeping AN a place that has quality, community, and class

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not as if this place was a country club

And suddenly the proletariat were allowed in, much to the chagrin of its members.

Do you ever read Engadget, BTW? It’s a good gadget blog, and I don’t think they have cussing in their front page posts. I don’t think anyone is saying that site is going to hell. If anything, it’s getting more popular.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

At some point Engadget is going to run into the fact that Steve Jobs is not in fact God

And they’re going to turn into Gizmodo. It’s going to be an ugly day in the gadget universe.

by rrryanc on Jul 22, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not quite recently at all.

Nico gave that up well over a year ago. Others keep reviving it.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Analysis you can't bleat!"

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well,

if that’s so, then I think you’re just tactically misguided as to what will produce better content. Grover alone is worth probably several hundred hypothetical future posters (or several hundred complaints from less productive current posters) in that respect…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

See that's where we disagree

I love grover and definitely want him to stay and write, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a reasonable compromise that is better than the status quo. The notion that anyone would write less because they are asked not to type out “motherfucker” in their piece is ludicrous. You can’t just cater everything to your “most productive posters” any more than you should say, “Well Barry Bonds gets a lounge chair and stays at his own hotel because, well, he’s Barry.”

The reality is that this is all about mutual compromise and respect. Nothing is being asked of anyone, other than to just realize that the profanity/lewdness bothers a lot of people, that it has reached a point of bothering and concerning the “manager,” and to just show that little modicum of compromise and respect, for others and for the blog, to just say, “OK.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn't the Giants do exactly that with Barry Bonds?

In the end, it was better for them to have Barry being Barry than it was to not have Barry at all.

Grover has already said that he will write less, so I’m not seeing how speculating such an effect is even unlikely, much less “ludicrous”…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I meant it would be ludicrous to follow up on it

Hey, it’s up to him but that just doesn’t make any sense to me.

But look, my job isn’t to answer to my “best posters,” my job is to try to foster a community in which everyone can feel equally essential and considered (as well as equally expendable — and let’s not sugarcoat it: If I were run over by a rabid ostrich tomorrow, AN would go on without missing a beat).

It doesn’t mean I don’t greatly appreciate certain posters; it just means I can’t make policy that reflects it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

In that case,

I do not understand what definition of “quality” you are using here. If it’s not “whatever gets the most viewers,” and it’s not “whatever produces the best analysis,” what on earth is it?

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's a fair and interesting question.

I think along with the two things you mention, there’s also presenting yourself as “a place of quality,” which can show up in how people talk to each other, how they resolve differences, what impression/reputation reverberates out to those looking in, how much things like “respect” and “diversity” and “differences” are valued, etc.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah that just seems like political correctness to me

It’s a kind of elitism, which is not in itself bad, but it’s one which isn’t really based in something germane to baseball.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not germane to baseball at all

It’s germane to the bigger “visible, public, community forum” part of AN. You can call it political correctness (which I happen to dislike), but I would call it “how you present yourself.”

Just like whether you have good lighting or dim lighting, or whether your walls are freshly painted or chipping and neglected, doesn’t actually impact a restaurant’s quality of food or service, but is certainly a part of how it presents itself and how it’s perceived.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hm

Perhaps it’s not a coincidence that I would vastly prefer a fabulous meal in a dank hellhole to a mediocre meal in an art museum…

I’m not sure whether you’re saying that you dislike political correctness or dislike me calling this political correctness.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dislike political correctness

I live in Berkeley and can’t stand all the euphemistic speak and constant offense at everything that tends to pervade this otherwise wonderful town.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

can’t stand all the euphemistic speak

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jul 23, 2010 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

who is really complaing about the Fbombs though?

or calling something bullshit?

I can guarantee if the rule is enforced I will get banned.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Several hundred?

No pressure there…!

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I mean, it's like the question "how many C-grade prospects would you need before you'd trade Jason Heyward"?

The answer is either “a hell of a lot” or “infinity”…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

It can be about money and courtesy

For example, loudly swearing at a baseball game next to little kids (or intentionally puking on a girl like that fan in philly) is not courteous. But stadiums probably don’t like it because it alienates customers (i.e. loses money). But just because such a rule is about money doesn’t mean it’s the wrong rule.

Granted, all of this makes the site more appealing to the mainstream general population, which may or may not be a good thing for the average AN user.

by Billy Frijoles on Jul 22, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Markets don't produce inherently good rules or bad rules

Any argument that starts from the assumption that anything market forces do is inherently right or wrong is bunkum (which, without getting too deep into hot-button issues, is why I have such a problem with mainstream economics).

I happen not to like what they produce in this particular instance. In the case of “not throwing up on people”, by contrast, I think markets do a good job…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lets be honest. If youre old enough to find AN your old enough to hear the f word

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's not the point

Every student I teach has heard the F-word 10,000 times. That doesn’t mean we allow them to use the F-word at school. This isn’t about “protecting the innocent children/citizens.” It’s about being able to say, at the end of the day, that we’re a place to chooses to model a higher level of conversation — both in content and in process.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I say fuck

im also a classy dude who writes some damn good content. Those things are inseparable.

Its like demanding that my fanposts are spell checked and grammatically correct.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think when you cuss that these are usually your classiest moments,

but that’s a matter of opinion. And you’re welcome to spell check and grammar check your fanposts — frankly I think everyone should. I look up words in the dictionary, to check their spelling, all the time, even before making comments.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

see now I cant make my racy classy moments jokes

cries myself to sleep.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Move over, and you're hogging the covers

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

GET OUT OF MY BED MY GIRLFRIEND IS STARTING TO ASK QUESTIONS

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

A thousand times this
Seeking readership and seeking money produce the same outcomes in a situation, like this one, where readership and money are directly (and essentially one-to-one) correlated. To protest that it’s not about money is simply beside the point, because there’s no practical difference.

Hell im a big advocate for half the rules, but claiming that growing the audience isn’t about money is silly ridiculous

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

But I'm not trying to grow the audience

I’m trying to produce the best quality blog, and best community, possible — even if it means shrinking the audience or losing possible profits.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

there are really just some things that cant as elloquently be said with out the term fucking

and especially among the content creators (well the kind of content that I read) a ruff and tumble this is bullshit mentality encourages posting.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes there are some

And in fact more sparing use of profanity makes each use that much more impactful.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

like my buddy said the other day...in fact was whining about it.

he sure wished his g/f-sig-other wore something “interesting at bed time” because the stark nakedness was getting boring and un-interesting.

alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 22, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that this is indicative of a problem,

but I think the problem is not a sartorial one.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol

rec’d for shieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

by gillyball on Jul 22, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Goddammit.

With the off-day I thought I might actually get some work done today.

This is as bad as when Billy makes a blockbuster trade.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 4:10 PM PDT reply actions  

hopefully that will happen soon too

Zooey Deschanel!

Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS

You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury

by ChickenStanley on Jul 22, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ideally, a F---ing-A trade.

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."

-Charles Manson

by kaweahkaweah on Jul 23, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

wow this thread blew up!

so is mentioning ryan sweeney and whipped cream in the same sentence now a no-no?

by OakA'sHoney on Jul 22, 2010 4:18 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm there!

Can I be Joan? She is, after all, a bit older than the other girls.

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

How 'bout Ryan Sweeney and Synvisc?

Losing this team would be a huge failure for this city and an affront to Oakland’s great sports legacy.

by skigurl on Jul 22, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

A no-no? It's downright REQUIRED that you DO

In all seriousness, if folks could just stop using the f word as their main adjective and “s***” as their main noun, and stop turning everything into a sexual reference or a comment on someone’s body, just that would make a big dent in the volume of “profanity/lewdness” that has become such an issue and probably solve the need for any “rules.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Seriously, if folks don't want rules all they have to say is,

“All right, let’s commit to keeping the profanity and lewdness to a minimum out of respect for the fact that obviously it has become an issue, and having shown we can and will do that on our own, let’s not have a rule about it, let’s just commit to doing it.” Works for me. Heck, I’ll gladly erase all those new rules now if there’s a real commitment to toning the profanity and lewdness down without the push of any new guidelines.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

All right

let’s commit to keeping the profanity and lewdness to a minimum out of respect for the fact that obviously it has become an issue, and having shown we can and will do that on our own, let’s not have a rule about it, let’s just commit to doing it.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sounds good to me -- anyone else?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm up for that

There are a lot of people on this site under thirty, and under twenty, and their hormones are hyperactive. I think asking them to cool it is a lot better than forcing the issue. As for expletives, if Bob Geren deserves one, he should get one. Not a million, but certainly enough.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

hell, I'm over forty and my hormones are off the charts

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

how YOU doin.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

let's just say

that, like Dylan, if my thought-dreams could be seen, they’d probably put my head in a guillotine… but that’s alright, Ma, it’s life and life only.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cool, thx.

Obviously, I shouldn’t wait for 100 people to comment, nor do I know what the right “magic number threshhold” is anyway, so here’s a thought. Are there a couple of you who are on AN enough who would be willing to volunteer to be “peer helpers,” reminding the community as needed that we’re trying to curb the profanity/lewdness, so it is totally self-policed and not mod/admin policed, but is likely to succeed?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would join in that effort.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

so would I

and I cuss a lot. That’s just part of who I am, whether or not someone wants to think they’re better than me because they don’t cuss isn’t a big deal to me.

Well placed swear words are perfectly fine to me but, yeah…

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Awesome -- and I totally support your last sentence, mikev,

as being a completely fair and appropriate balance.

So why don’t we do this? iglew and mikev, for at least the next couple weeks while this is fresh, can you keep a “reminding peer eye” on AN just specifically in regards to profanity/lewdness, in the spirit of, “Let’s make a good faith effort as a community,” and I’ll get rid of the stupid-a** rules right now.

Does that work?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

iglew? mikev?

Hello?

Mom?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

When you think about it Nico

it’s not the next two weeks you need to worry about. It’s when everyone looks around and says “ok, coast is clear” when you’ll really need them. I’ve already offered, at least in my own threads to start.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really mean, for the next two weeks,

just to actually remind people because it will be new.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

gotcha

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Works for me.

Sorry, had 2 soccer games tonight and just got back

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

lost em both and more importantly I sorta re-confirmed that SOMETHING

is broken on me.

My worst fear is a torn abdominal muscle or a sports hernia.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch

Good luck on whatever the injury is. Stay away from the A’s training staff — we’d like to see you again in the future.

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 22, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aw, it was nice knowing you

{quietly edits mikev’s will….“And to AN I leave the BAG”….}

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Jul 22, 2010 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

sooner better than later, mikey!

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 23, 2010 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't promise to read every thread, nor

to read them promptly, but I will do so for the threads I do read. I was kind of doing it already. I called out EN on the Lite Brite pic about Boston.

Ideally you should have several more besides just me and mikev.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ya, I'll take as many as are willing to volunteer

It’s not it will hurt to have one too many.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't necessarily go too far out of my way

But if I see it, I’d certainly try to say something.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's appropriate

I do wholeheartedly endorse a rule that each post stay on topic (which in general terms I suspect is already within the spirit of the rules). But that would take care of DFA’s issue with people socializing within his stat posts, the lewdness in your front page posts, turning DLDs or CT threads into fight club debate-style (which doesn’t actually happen, but…), or the use of profanity within mourning/family threads (when/if they ever exist), etc. It wouldn’t forbid any particular activity, it would simply keep the discourse on topic which is an entirely fair expectation and what seems to be at the heart of what you’re trying to accomplish.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's actually not a priority to me, personally,

but might be something the community generally likes and if so that’s fine. As the site’s manager, I don’t especially care what the topic is, or how much it shifts, so long as the conversation is free from excessive levels of “vulgar discourse.”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

you reallize that the sexual innuendo stuff is almost exclusively people over 35 right?

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

{looks away}

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

{looks towards}

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

{whistles to self}

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm 35

I want to know if I have a bright future ahead of me.

The monster at the end of this blog.

by grover on Jul 22, 2010 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Life is about to end as you know it

{weeps bitterly}

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

The best sex years of my life, by far,

came after I was 35.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am offended.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 22, 2010 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

the term almost applies to you.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, well, I wasn’t really offended.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 22, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

well if you were we could have created a whole category of posts where doing so wasn't allowed.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's because we're the ones who are

good at it.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yours isn't exactly innuendo.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who's actually doing that?

I mean outside the realm of where it tends to be the appropriate norm? Maybe a handful of people at most?

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Uh...It's all over the place.

This the problem is.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

thats news to me.

And i am being 100% serious. aside from game threads and CT threads, i think this is an overblown issue.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 5:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

last year my Ryan Sweeney thread was completely innundated with them

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it was mostly AN Chicks who did that?

Isn’t he one of the ones the chicks love?

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, it was overwhelmingly the guys.

It started with a silly pun wherein “Ryan Sweeney” was recast as “Ryan’s weenie”, and then a bunch of playful banter ensued.

Those comments were actually a relatively small portion of the thread, which had quite a bit of good discussion in it. But since that little diversion happened to branch off the second comment posted, and the first comment posted also had a bunch of (non-sexual) banal chatter attached to it, there were a few screenfuls of off-topic silliness to scroll past before one got to the actual conversation intended by DFA for his post.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 23, 2010 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, I like this post. I think it explains it quite well.

"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez

by baseballgirl on Jul 22, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

no

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it should be if your in a non DLD or Game or CT thread

your comments in my Ryan Sweeney thread last fall I felt were pretty degrading to my work and effort.

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

What the...
-----         ____  | / 
|---   |   |  |     |/\	 
|      |___|  |___  |  \

asterisks and symbols are okay, right?

"... and A-Rod is forced to admit that Dallas got to the Hall of Fame before he did." - en

by FoolshGame22 on Jul 22, 2010 4:35 PM PDT reply actions  

⇒⊃

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

okay, I'm done with off-day metathread now.

Gonna go celebrate my 16th birthday, drunkies.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 5:02 PM PDT reply actions  

enjoy

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 22, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Congrat big guy!

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have a good time Mr. Bloom

I’m happy you seem to be enjoying yourself so much out there in California.

by sirbed on Jul 22, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

enjoy it

before you turn 18 and all fun ends!!

by Dub_TC on Jul 22, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

hellz yah!!1

"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.

by Joey C. on Jul 22, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Say hi to Bill W for me.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Belated congrats, LB!

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can I just make a distinction here?

Content = The substance of your argument. Your answer to the thesis of your post. The data you present to back that up. The analysis that you do along with your data.

Style = The way you make your argument. Diction, syntax, punctuation, sentence construction, tense. All that fun stuff. Also includes use of swear words.

It appears that Nico is attempting to regulate the style of this site. While some here are throwing around arguments about censorship, this is not the case. By the arguments presented here, one would think that Nico got a call from Beane about one of Dan’s excellent analytical pieces and was told to take it down, because Beane didn’t want that info out there. That would be censorship; this, however, is not.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 5:45 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

No.....

Censorship is censorship.

It was censorship when the Production Code determined what words any screenplay could contain, whether those words could be replaced by synonyms or not.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, to use the Harvey Milk speech analogy

If Milk was asked to change one innocuous word in his speech that didn’t effect its content in the slightest, he would have been censored?

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

indeed

Harvey was a master of turning the fears about queers on their ears (bows for rhyming). But he did this by treading a fine line with it. He didn’t go out in front of people and say “OK, I am Harvey Milk and I’m here to give champion head to each and every one of your sons!” because that would have been too out there for 1977, or even 2010. No, he stuck with “I am Harvey Milk and I’m here to recruit you!” because it stuck a puncture-pin in the stereotype by using a tasteful-yet-powerful double entendre, as in ah, you’re here to recruit me for your campaign…. right? So it made people sort of consider or reconsider the stereotype in the moment and neutralized it to a large extent.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

And yet....

In Harvey’s office, when looking around for something to grab the public imagination, it was Frank M. Robinson who said “dog shit” and the pooper scooper issue took over. Frank didn’t say “dog poop.” He said “dog shit.” If it were AN, he’d have had to say “dog sh***”, hard to do in life, or on film. (That’s Frank’s voice in the film saying “dog shit.” It was his only line of dialogue - he played himself - that Gus Van Sant didn’t edit out. If you watch “Milk” you’ll see an old guy in a lot of the scenes in the office. That’s Frank. He was the “old guy” back in 1978 as well, two years older than Harvey).

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

No one is saying you have to infantilize it

and start saying poop where you would have said shit before. And really, if he said “dog crap” would that have changed anything?

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

OK, but when they took the Scooper Ordinance out front into the public arena

it was “Pooper Scooper” and not “Dogshit Denial,” you know? A certain toning-down for the public milieu was necessary to have the wider idea of it gain acceptance, no?

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

That toning down...

changed the meaning…see PT’s and my comments below. Frank M. Robinson said “dog shit” to Harvey, and that’s what was said in the film. He didn’t say a euphemism.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

how did changing it from Dogshit Ordinance to Pooper Scooper change the meaning?

people still knew it meant they had to clean up after their dogs.

Howlin’ Wolf once was forced to make a psychedelic electric album that he hated, and which he refereed to upon its completion as “The Dogshit Album”. Does that mean the message changed when the record company called it this?
Or is this just a more tasteful way to say the same thing, that the artist hates this record? I love this album, by the way.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Metallica's black album was originally called "Fuck them all!"

But the distributors would have none of it. So they changed it to the Black Album. Which is still kickass, but the message certainly changed.

by rrryanc on Jul 22, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Their first one was retitled from "Metal Up Your Ass" to "Kill 'Em All" too.

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Probably depends upon the context

How innocuous was the word? Were there subtexts in terms of the change? If a word is shocking, and its use is intended to shock (which may be deliberate rather than gratuitous), then the change is not innocuous.

Also, the operative word here is “asked.”

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

fine, he was told to

But that’s not the point. I said if it changes the content. Your point was censorship is censorship is censorship. So, at what point do you say “this is not censorship” when you change something?

MY point is that I forsee no context in which posters here cannot make reasonable arguments without the use of swear words.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I give my answer below

At this point, it appears Nico is ready to give in a little on this issue, and allow for reasonable use of expletives. So it may be that the argument right now is moot.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

He probably shouldn't

Because things will return to the way they are and his real problem won’t be addressed.

This is notwithstanding the fact that it would be a fair observation to say that if cussing is allowed in DLDs, game threads, and CT threads, that this indeed constitutes reasonable use of expletives.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 22, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree

I never commented in game threads (ever, really), don’t really know what CT threads are, and sometimes commented in DLDs but probably less so than other posts.

If I want to swear for emphasis, I’m [censored] out of luck…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

+ a lot

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even more than most writers,

you would have no problem communicating emphasis by means of unbanned words that nevertheless express profanity or obscenity.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, you know me

Laziness in writing is not my problem. When I swear, it’s not just random venting.

And yet I do it a lot. I would have a huge problem expunging it. It would be a serious chap in my [censored].

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I do know you.

I too swear a lot and would have some trouble remembering. But as I learned recently, there is value in thinking more carefully about what I say before I say it.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

this

I swear because it makes a point

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

the code said you couldn’t express that content at all, and therefore those words. it’s not like the code said, OK, you can talk about sex as long you avoid those words.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes and no.

“Pregnant” was a word that couldn’t be used, but euphemisms were found. “Prostitute” was no good, but “party girl” or “taxi dancer” might be acceptable. You couldn’t show people having sex, but you could show waves crashing on the shore.

In the early days, content was very strictly defined but that became looser as time went on. The code itself finally broke down in the mid-1960s in terms of language, though content had pretty much broken through before then.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

the code was censorship because it tried to block the content. the result was imaginative subversion. so in that case, censoring content affected style. but that doesn’t necessarily mean that getting people to change their style is the same as censoring the content.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

The code was censorship

Because it was censorship, of content and words.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Censorship on AN already exists...

…in terms of both content (i.e. political talk) and words (certain words are not acceptable, such as ethnic insults). This censorship takes the form of content and words as well.

We find that acceptable. The real question, which was raised by grover and mikev, among others, concerns whether censoring the expletives themselves censors content. That the very use of the word IS content, and that enforcing a change in the content by censoring the word because a few people might be offended is very different from removing political talk (because that takes the site in places it shouldn’t go) or racial, gender-based or religious slurs. By their very nature, these expletives cannot be innocuous.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes, that’s censorship.

now what would you call it if you were free to show/talk about the content, but only through words that even 10-year-olds were comfortable with?

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suspect 10 year olds are more comfortable with certain words than their grandparents

And there are adult themes here that ten year olds would never be comfortable with, sexual innuendos by women on this site about certain baseball players, and banter between posters.

If I were forced to only use words ten year olds were comfortable with, the content would invariably change. It couldn’t NOT change. Hypothetically, if it didn’t, and someone ordered me not to use certain words, yes, that’s censorship.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

To quote McLuhan

The medium is the message. Again, that’s the point both grover and mikev were making above. The content DOES change when the word changes. It’s about signification and the use of language. Semiotics studies this. One could also argue that Lakoff’s works in the field of cognitive linguistics touches on this as well, in that phrasing implies a frame of some kind. It’s unavoidable because it’s how the human mind works.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow

I’ve seen the same post saying the same thing at the same time before, but for both of us to simultaneously hit McLuhan AND Lakoffian cognitive science, independently, within 59 seconds of each other has to be some kind of record.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

i just think you’re not that good a writer/thinker if you can’t say the same thing with or without an f-bomb. and i’m not talking about you-you. actually, i’d use you as an example of clarity reached without the use of expletives.

really don't care if i ever get back.

by AV on Jul 22, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's a personal issue for the writer

I don’t know if the late Hunter Thompson, for example, could’ve said the same thing without the f-bomb. As someone who has spent many years interviewing writers, the perfect word is sometimes just that, the perfect word. It could be the f-bomb; it could be something else.

An example, not using the f-bomb…The New York Times does not use the word “torture” when describing the activities of Americans or American contractors abroad. Euphemisms such as “enhanced interrogation techniques” are used instead. They will use the word “torture” to describe, for example, what other countries are doing. This fact was recently noted by both Glenn Greenwald on his blog and by author Barry Eisler. You’d have to ask Bill Keller why that is…but the point is that “torture” is a charged word, like “fuck”… the moment you change the word, you’ve changed the essence and the meaning. In the case of the Times, this is a political action, which is why it is so clear.

Paul and I weren’t kidding when we were talking about McLuhan and Lakoff. You can’t separate meaning from style because the meaning of a word is ALWAYS embedded in the style. That’s why good writers are so careful to choose the right word.

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

352 U.S. 380, 383
Surely, this is to burn the house to roast the pig. Indeed, the Solicitor General of Michigan has, with characteristic candor, advised the Court that Michigan has a statute specifically designed to protect its children against obscene matter “tending to the corruption of the morals of youth.” * But the appellant was not convicted for violating this statute.

We have before us legislation not reasonably restricted to the evil with which it is said to deal. The incidence of this enactment is to reduce the adult population of Michigan to reading only what is fit for children.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Eh

Marshall McLuhan and, I suspect, most cognitive scientists would emphatically disagree with this post…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right. Most artists and writers since at least the Modernist era would have something to say about that, too.

Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"

by Ray of Lite on Jul 22, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

who, now?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where do I start?!!

Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"

by Ray of Lite on Jul 23, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Warhol, Lydia Davis, Jackson Pollock, Brice Marden, Kathy Acker, Jasper Johns, Donald Barthelme, Rauschenberg, Devo . . .

Remember me sometime when I am far away/and I will try and do the same/Maybe just like you someday I will forget/every hit song America ever had -- Yo La Tengo, "Lewis"

by Ray of Lite on Jul 23, 2010 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

clearly the solution is to have ALL AN content translated into the dialect of Jive

Original:

I think Cust should only DH against righties and it should be Rosales vs. left-handed pitching or maybe Conor Jackson when he returns. Cust’s steady decline in slugging percentage leads me to believe that his earlier stats were the product of PED use, or possibly marijuana indulgence.

Translation:

Saaaaay, bra, muhfuh Jackie Cust ain’t got no hits, B? Wha’ the plan, Jackson? Sheeeeit. Ain’t got not tiff wit de spliff, do ya? Sheeeeeit, muhfuh ain’t but sluggin’ fo-hundred, wit a emphasis on no bombs, dammmmmmmmn. Jackie thirty-two got him sum chump steak on that HGH tip, my man. I goes with dat Rosy cat, that dawg is da slickest, G… and can we slide a slice of sweet Conna J out dere for da southpaws?

Sheeeeeit. [[[slaps hands with secret AN Jive handshake]]]

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 5:57 PM PDT reply actions  

We'come to World o' Athletes!

I’z your host, the jiving Knee Company!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

personally i think this is pretty tasteless

He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev

by designatedforassignment on Jul 22, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only if Barbara Billingsley does the translation

“Pardon me, stewardess mods, I speak jive.”

BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.

by doctorK on Jul 22, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

cut me some slack, jack.

alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 22, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am on-board with Nico's post

I swear alot, way too much, but as is my habit, I always say it to myself. Sometimes I startle passers by when I am walking along the sidewalk.

by robertmelvin on Jul 22, 2010 6:29 PM PDT reply actions  

This is still going strong.

Holy, uh, crap.

the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy

by walk off bunt on Jul 22, 2010 7:30 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm done.

Off to see “Inception.”

by richwol1 on Jul 22, 2010 7:57 PM PDT reply actions  

…don’t waste your time

by swerv on Jul 23, 2010 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wha?!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 1:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whoa, dude.

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 23, 2010 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

was a VERY cool idea...

…just a poorly done movie. It should have been 45minutes shorter. 2:15 or whatever it was was way too long. How about that van falling of the bridge for the last 30 minutes of the movie? laughable

plus cgi/special effects don’t impress me. I give it a C

by swerv on Jul 23, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

...the Wonderful Inception of Oz!

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Just got back from it

Fantastic.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jul 23, 2010 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kinda ſü¢ĸíñġ agree

The new rules seem plenty fair to me. We’re here for sports, friendship (I mean romance! yeah that’s it) and the sort and if we need raunchiness beyond debauchery and to curse like sailors than our sports bar is a bit seedy. One problem I do see is that for the casual poster how to know which thread is safe for what? It seems too easy to mix up where the safety zones are and where they aren’t.

One thing I would like to advocate is using a technical solution for a social problem. Is there no way for AN to have a default blacklist of naughty words that get flagged and automagically transformed into a censored version of the word? This behavior could be default and for those wanting more menace in their mornings could uncheck the option and see all the pretty vulgar language as intended. This would take that particular burden off the user and puts it back on the software, where it belongs.

by Jernskogen on Jul 22, 2010 8:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Let me check on that just to know

(because I have no idea).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

If it’s feasible I’m thinking that any swear could be replaced by a clickable ellipses “…” that reveals the dangerous word in question. Really most swearing is uncreative so to fill in the blank with a click would not result in lots of extra clicking. Heh, could even be fun to have a swear count at the end of some threads to judge the general frustration level with the game / player being discussed in the thread. We all know fans are extra passionate about certain aspects of the game (… BUNTING!) and it would be a nice way to tally this statistically. Oh no – what’s happened to be?! I’m sabering word counts on a sports blog now :S Others would simply gloss over it like they would most ellipses: something likely unimportant has been left out and it’s not crucial to the idea being expressed.

by Jernskogen on Jul 22, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can that kind of thing be easily done?

My knowledge of software is approximately equal to my knowledge of Antarctican restaurants.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hear the penguin Louie is quite popular down on the Google campus

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I now officially know more about Antarctican restaurants

than I do about software.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Depends

on the flexibility of the system. IIRC it’s stll Scoop and it’s nice and flexible. Just needs code.

by Jernskogen on Jul 22, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I suspect that many, if not most

of the people who hate swears would hate it just as much (maybe even more) if they knew that other people were doing it and it was just being automatically converted into something else.

Although based on his comments here, I don’t think Nico is among that group.

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Then it becomes overreaching

If people are concerned that others are even typing curse words it becomes a scary world very close to the thought police.

by Jernskogen on Jul 22, 2010 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I suspect that if you pushed them

probably 30-40% of the American people would actually be in favor of thought police…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 22, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indeed

No argument from me there with your estimate – in fact I’d put it higher. Yet AN is a place for discussion, not stifling discussion. We can all have differences of opinion and expression and HOPEFULLY agree to disagree when the time is right. This, IMO, is essential to free speech and exchange of ideas in any forum including that of sports.

by Jernskogen on Jul 22, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Probably a lot more than that.

Choosy Feebas choose Leopold Bloom nipples

by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I sure do hate it when

Microsoft turns 1/2 into ½.

I’m not too keen on it when AN turns “Kurt Suzuki (c)” into “Kurt Suzuki ©”, either.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kurt Suzuki's lawyers love it, though.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha, yeah that is annoying because the behavior isn’t default when you go elsewhere. I suppose it could be both a reading a posting preference, although then the onus is really on the poster to watch where they post.

by Jernskogen on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

SBN's autocorrect garbage is really the biggest unforced error the software makes.

But we’ve been around this block, and apparently it’s never going to change.

"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson

by nevermoor on Jul 22, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

So I've read this whole thread

And I know that at this point we’re back to status quo, etc.

But what I am confused about is why the original proposition was ever deemed a reasonable rule.

I get that this blog isn’t a democracy( although since it’s entire existence is based on its constituents’ contributions, the ruling class doesn’t have the longest of leashes ). So I understand a need for rules, regulations and decorum. That’s fine, and totally your decisions as the folks running the blog.

What I don’t get is the rationale behind splitting up the rules between the sections. It was postulated that new folks, happening upon this blog for the first time, might get scared off or freaked out if they saw profanity( o my! ) in a front page post. However, DLDs, and game threads, both of which are right there on the front page and top recommended posts, are for some reason exempt from these rules.

So basically, we’re trying not to scare people off until their second click? Hi, I’m a nice guy, would you like a candy bar, how about a ride in my awesome van? I understand that those threads are more real-time, reactionary and random than the typical fan posts and front page posts. But the identity of the site is the identity of the site, ya know?

As an aside, if you really want new people to stick around, ban all the inside jokes. Nothing makes me want to leave a conversation more than if everyone else is laughing at a joke I don’t get…

by rrryanc on Jul 22, 2010 8:25 PM PDT reply actions  

Well...the idea was to compartmentalize,

so that rather than saying to someone “you can’t ever talk like this” or “you have to read this” you could have pockets, almost like rooms I guess, where people could make intentional choices.

Of course you’re right that while the CT threads are a great spot for “after dark,” and the front page columns natural choices for “let’s look as professional as possible,” it makes little sense (to me) to have game threads, which are right on the front page, be among your “anything goes” rooms.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

What happens in CT Threads stays in CT threads

There’s the new AN After Dark slogan, call the ad agency

Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...

by emperor nobody on Jul 22, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still don't understand separating the Front Page posts from any of the other posts though.

Except the CT threads, I mean those you basically have to actively be looking for in order to find.

Fan Posts, DLDs – they’re all right there and easily accessible. And there’s nothing intuitively different about commenting on a front page vs. a fan post. If I just showed up to AN, I’d have no idea that they’re actually any different.

My point is that if it’s not explicit to users about what to expect when first visiting AN, then separating out does nothing except put some lipstick on the pig. “O hey, these guys are nice god-fearing folk who I’d be happy to introduce my parents t—Holy mother of god what’s happening between those sock puppets?!!”

( Note, I’m not religious and I’d have no problem introducing my parents to yall)

by rrryanc on Jul 22, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

If there were no compartmentalizing and

no large “anything goes” zones like DLDs and game threads, this rule probably would have been sufficient to make me leave AN.

That’s not necessarily saying I would disapprove of the rule. I might still see that it’s the best choice for AN but choose to leave anyway because AN would no longer be the best choice for me.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let's just

Strive for good judgement.
Feel it out.
Know it when we see it.
Try not to set things too much in stone.
And not get too bent out of shape when we get called out for needless profanity.

by Jeremy Belvins on Jul 22, 2010 9:30 PM PDT reply actions  

My older sister's good friend, was dating Mario Savio

back in the day. I got to meet him. If had only known…..

alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 22, 2010 9:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Mario Savio lived in my family's basement before I was born.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was at his funeral -- my first funeral, actually.

But it was back in 1996.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

really, that far back? he had cancer?

could you say what you want at the funeral? I mean, free speech-wise.

alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 22, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

He had a heart attack, and no,

we were all told what to think. It was nice.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

heart attack. well, that's what all that free speech and rable rousing

will do to a person.

alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 22, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I had an aunt who spoke freely one morning

and immediately died of leukemia.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

So after 1,000+ posts, pretty much nothing changed?

Well that was a waste of half an hour.

F*** this.

"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN

by hero66 on Jul 22, 2010 10:05 PM PDT reply actions  

A lot changed!

People hate me more and might cuss less.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

character building.

alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 22, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bargain!

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

by iglew on Jul 22, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

A discussion was held that needed to be held.....

"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis

by Berry Jo on Jul 23, 2010 2:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

1000+ posts!!

"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.

by SwisherThresher on Jul 22, 2010 10:40 PM PDT reply actions  

'Nite all.

Happy trails.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 22, 2010 10:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Everybody's fave

Eric Patterson 2 run double, 8-6 Red Sox in the 13th at Safeco.

@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast

by Hit4TheCycle on Jul 22, 2010 11:01 PM PDT reply actions  

i turned it off in the 12th....... good grief.

alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.

by ak_A on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

So having finally read most of this thread...

Lighten up.

Censorship is more like if Nico went around deleting every “GEREN SUCKS!” and “I HATE BOWERS!” post. I agree that the occasional f-bomb or whatever is OK, but people are taking this entirely too seriously. Nico/Blez/et alius have not taken away your ability to say, go to another blog, or start another one. Life will go on.

Really… you can post whatever you want. Whether you want to deal with the consequences, positive or negative, is up to you.

"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

by YonYonson on Jul 22, 2010 11:15 PM PDT reply actions  

We’re allowed to say we hate Bowers?????? This place is so much better than Amazin’ Avenue! Their anti-Bowers restrictions are so harsh!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

You guys have a much better sense of what REAL blogo-fascism is than we do, I'm afraid

I mean, most of you have already been banned at Bruins Nation…

Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!

by PaulThomas on Jul 23, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

no. not here.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fudge

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Holy crap dude.

So, today is your 16th?

Today is my brothers 1st.

EERIE.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Woo!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

whosawhasa?

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

A very merry unbirthday

TO YOU!

"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige

by YonYonson on Jul 22, 2010 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

AND YOU

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm proud of him.

Hell, I’m proud of you.

Pam liked my old sig better.

by mikev on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you! And you should be. A year is a long time.

The beginning is tough and rocky. Or can be.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know, with all the much to do about nothing

No one posted or commented anywhere about the Slegna obtaining Callaspo

AN: We is all growed up now.

by OptimistPrime on Jul 22, 2010 11:40 PM PDT reply actions  

I thought I told you! NO BASEBALL!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Take it to the (uncensored) DLD!

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 22, 2010 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

you tell him, dan!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

by the way, dude, I'm doubting you're real now.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 22, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm real! I swear it!

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 23, 2010 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

sure, you are. Robot.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can't I be both?

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 23, 2010 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

beep boop beep beep.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cluck.

[pecks at the ground]

She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.

by danmerqury on Jul 23, 2010 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Mikie?!

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I posted it in the DLD.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 23, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

you are amazing, George Michael.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

No swearing, aye? Transruzzlefuggit! I'll tell you what I think of that!

You can call up your friend Dick, and ask to borrow his ass, and ride it halfway to Shytswipple, and sit at home googling yourself for hours about how to engage in assignations with people in your area. And you might still have time to rotate your muffler bearings. But when you’re at home watching Randy Johnson and munching your crabs it eats you out that you never took had that one big chancre to blow, and it builds up inside of you like a beaver dam that you never flubbed that plooker.

by Aufheben on Jul 23, 2010 12:20 AM PDT reply actions  

My creator's on the phone. He mentioned lawyers.

sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm

by Leopold Bloom on Jul 23, 2010 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

i don't care too much one way or another

but i think it’s great that this thread has over 1200 comments. oakland is a cool place and a very unique place, which leads to Oakland A’s fans being a unique bunch. i’m glad to associate with the A’s. being a fan of any other team wouldn’t be nearly as cool.

BK: This guy is on fire, he is really smokin'.
KenKo: Oh yeah, Bill? What's he smokin'?

by jlanning17 on Jul 23, 2010 7:03 AM PDT reply actions  

After all this discussion, I'm left wondering something:

Who are the people actually upset about the current level of profanity on the site?

Though opinions about the now apparently withdrawn new rules seem to vary in this thread, I don’t see anybody here who really thinks we have a problem that is desperately in need of an aggressive new solution.

So though I was ok with the new rules (this site has always been moderated/censored…and the changes didn’t seem too severe to me), I’m even happier with where things have ended up.

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 7:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Where did things end up, anyway?

I’m far too lazy to search through 1,200 posts to find out.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Jul 23, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

We won.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 23, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

You and the other Don always win

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 23, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Someone needs to post a Recap Thread

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Several posters briefly went through time thanks to a hot tub. Hijinks ensued.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is curious.

But maybe they don’t feel stronlgy enough about their standing in the community to say anything here. On the other hand, I do know of a few long-tenured posters who don’t post as often, and maybe the issues discussed here are why. Still, you’re right.

I, for one, would not mind seeing- on off-days- a sort of poll- and maybe that’s a dangerous game to play- that asks what’s right/not right about AN (different posts obviously). If we are going to be about the community, perhaps the community should have some input. (Not that they haven’t spoken enough here).

I also want to commend Nico. He wears shoes I’d rather not jog in. And while I don’t agree with everything he says- here or behind the scenes, and let’s face it, that’s impossible- I do believe his heart is in the right place. The fact that he is considering relenting on some of the rules is a sign of that (although if he would have listened to me in the first place, we could be talking about baseball right about now- ha).

The reason the requests became rules in the first place is that things got out of hand, and we as mods sort of allowed it to get out of hand, partly in a throw-our-hands-up-in-the-air sort of way. I myself had personally asked a selct few to tone it down last year and was met with blatant sarcasm, even though I had asked behind the scenes and in a respectful manner. So you can see how we sometimes feel that the inmates run the asylum.

And in a way it’s true, and in a way it should be true.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 23, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the clarification, Don!

And I totally agree with you about Nico. I hope nothing I wrote suggested otherwise (to him or to you and the other mods).

There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jul 23, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ditto

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 23, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I also hope

…that nothing GNGS wrote suggested otherwise.

m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!

by JediLeroy on Jul 23, 2010 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure anyone was upset so much as "turned off" by the profanity/lewdness

If AN has indeed come to be known as a place of thoughtful baseball analysis with respect to the A’s, and part of that analysis includes comments, then people who come here expecting to find that thoughtful analysis are going to have to wade through a lot of crap.

Hopefully, no matter how its accomplished, we can be a place that’s meaningful for others but also retain the social part of AN that is a big deal to a lot of regular commenters.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

by cuppingmaster on Jul 23, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think that's right

And those “turned off” are likely not here to comment, or else have experienced being called “prudish” or “thin-skinned” when speaking up before and prefer not to voice their perspective publicly. Plus she has a “Highlights & Curlz” midterm tomorrow so she’s not online a whole lot.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 23, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just wanted to tell you both good luck.

We’re all counting on you.

I'm here to talk about the past.

by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 23, 2010 7:34 AM PDT reply actions  

Boy, that escalated quickly

I mean, that really got out of hand fast.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jul 23, 2010 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just did a crtl+f find for "fuck" and got over 100 matches

Some of those were CS tagline but still. But yet only 1 “bitch” courtesey of Emperor. And more than 100 “ass”. We need more bitches in here

WTF GEREN?!?!?!

by robbo650 on Jul 23, 2010 7:49 AM PDT reply actions  

You rang?

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nico Rules supporters; doesn’t it stab you through the heart, as it does ours throughout the Berkland? Peaceful ANers, please refudiate.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Jul 23, 2010 8:02 AM PDT reply actions  

GAME RECAP IS UP

Here

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jul 23, 2010 8:53 AM PDT reply actions  

I once ended a diary with

“Fuck ’em all anyway.” It’s one of the best lines I ever wrote anywhere. Written as f***, though, it would have been ham-fisted.

Everybody's got a little light under the sun.

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 26, 2010 7:52 PM PDT reply actions  

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