Geren's Brain Off, Davidson Goes Off, Kouzmanoff Walks Off
by danmerqury on Jul 20, 2010 11:14 PM PDT
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PrintLet me just quickly recap the bottom of the tenth inning here:
- Coco Crisp struck out swinging, said a few spicy words, and was ejected by umpire Bob Davidson, before being forcibly restrained by Bob Geren.
- Daric Barton singled, and advanced on a pitcher's foot twitch balk call by, again, Balkin' Bob Davidson.
- Terry Francona stupidly decided to intentionally walk Suzuki, in order to face a stronger hitter in Jack Cust. You know, the guy who never grounds into a Boston-needed double play?
- Francona pulled RHP Ramon Ramirez for LHP Dustin Richardson.
- Bob Geren, in a moment of complete and utter ineptness, pinch hit Adam Rosales for Jack Cust. I can't emphasize this enough—in a one out, two on, walk-off scenario, he removed his best hitter for a barely average one.
- Adam Rosales was unable to check his swing on strike three, but the umpires ruled that he didn't swing. Terry Francona, already fuming over the balk call, uttered a few choice words, but his pitching coach, John Farrell, added a few naughty gestures. Ejection.
- Adam Rosales swung and missed on strike three. Or four.
- Francona pulled LHP Dustin Richardson for RHP Michael Bowden.
- Kevin Kouzmanoff shot a line drive single to RF for the game winner.
It was a win, but I feel a little dirty about celebrating over this one. Not only was Geren completely outmatched, umpire Bob Davidson had as big a contribution as anyone.
4.2 innings, ten hits, and four runs doesn't sound so great, but Braden pitched significantly better than his line looks. The damage was done in the first two innings, and he was helped by a handful of shoddy defensive plays. He settled down rather nicely after that, and he did manage to strike out six of the twenty four batters he faced. And, in the land of the injury watch, it's worth noting that he threw fifteen breaking pitches tonight, and for the most part, they were sharp.
But you know what? I'll take it if it means the A's are .500 again.
Current Series
3 game series vs Red Sox @ Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum
| Mon 07/19 | WP: Daisuke Matsuzaka (7 - 3) SV: Jonathan Papelbon LP: Ben Sheets (4 - 9) |
1 - 2 loss |
| Tue 07/20 | WP: Andrew Bailey (1 - 3) LP: Ramon Ramirez (0 - 3) |
5 - 4 win |
|
Boston Red Sox Wednesday, Jul 21, 2010, 12:35 PM PDT Partly cloudy. Winds blowing out to right field at 10-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 70. |
||
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by bestbostonsports on Jul 20, 2010 11:19 PM PDT reply actions
hi! feel free to come back at 7 or so your time tomorrow
for more heartbreaking sorrow =)
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jul 21, 2010 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions
It's a day game here tomorrow
So EN is correct.
Actually, the day game starts at 12:35 our time
And thus 3:35 eastern.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I am pretty sure the first pitch is at 12:37 p.m. our time so that’s 3:37 p.m. Eastern.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 21, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
this ruins EVERYTHING
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
No! The schedule says 12:35 PM!
So that’s 3:35 PM Eastern!
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry I missed you yesterday BestBlahBlahBlahsports
Great game last night, huh?
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 21, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
good recap
I caught the last few innings, was surpriiised – to say the least – to see Rosales hitting for Cust in that spot.
I was pretty upset when I saw Rosales pinch hitting
But a closer look shows some pretty dramatic splits. Cust’s OPS vs LHP this year is only .519, over 350 points less than Rosales’ .892. The bigger problem was pinch hitting your best utility guy in the DH spot in the tenth inning of a tied game. Regardless of the splits I think it’s a bad move to pinch hit for your best hitter, but when you add in the DH factor it’s a no-brainer.
I can't believe I'm literally balancing my radio on my head to listen to Chris Townsend &
I live in Oakland!!!11
"We get two outs, and I was sure, and I had a plan, and I shook Tek off," Schilling said. "And I get a big 'What if?' for the rest of my life."
by Imaseasonticketholder on Jul 20, 2010 11:24 PM PDT reply actions
I'm sorry if you've heard this before
but you can stream his show over the internet at ktrb860.com
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
Wacky Giants-Dodgers game as well
Multiple hbps, Kershaw ejected, Broxton had to be replaced with the bases loaded because Mattingly accidentally visited the mound twice (he took one step off the mound, then turned back). Next batter hits double. Giants end up winning.
I didn't realize until this morning that Mattingly took a STEP off the mound. I thought he had gone all (or most) of the way back to the dugout
MLB really needs to change this rule. I think the cutoff point should be the foul line. Once the manager crosses the line, the visit ends. If it’s all about standing on the mound, then why wouldn’t managers just stand on the grass near the mound so it doesn’t count as a visit at all?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 5:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought that WAS the rule
That a visit is a visit when you cross the foul line. Same for a pitcher from the bullpen too — if he crosses the foul line he’s in the game, right?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I still haven't seen video of the Mattingly thing
But it sounds like he didn’t get very far. Lots of writers saying it’s a bad rule.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions
the rule is its one trip when he crosses the foul line
but the trip ends when the manager leaves the dirt. Another trip is charged if the manager returns to the mound.
so mattingly went to the mound left, then turned back.
its a dumb rule.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
A dumb interpretation if you ask me
So, it’s only a trip when you go across the line, but if you never return across the line the way you came and then return the mound, it’s also a trip? That’s ridiculous.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think it's dumb.
When you cross the foul line, you’ve declared your intention to visit the mound. When you step off the mound, you’ve declared that your visit is over. Seems simple to me.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but then if you turn around
to go back you should be told, “No, you left, you can’t come back and talk to the pitcher any more. Go back to the dugout,” not “That’s trip #2.” Are you even allowed to make two trips in one hitter? Mattingly should have been forced to go back to the dugout, not forced to change pitchers because he took a step onto the grass.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If you aren't done, don't step off the mound.
I think the second trip has to be charged because of the information exchange. If you step back on the mound, potentially you’ve talked to the pitcher again. I’m guessing it was put into place to keep the pace of the game from getting slower.
Spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
the plate umpire
did tell him NOT to go back that it wasn’t allowed. Mattingly didn’t hear/understand him in time to stop before hitting the mound
by heartstopper on Jul 21, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
But do you think he walked off of the mound
took 3 steps, then decided a new course of action was in order? No, he probably just forgot to say something. That’s why I have a problem with it – there was no clear intent of it being two visits.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The solution, then, is to make sure that you say everything you have to say before you step off.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, of course, it was definitely a mistake
I swear I have seen this happen in a game before where they are about to leave, walk a little away, then turn back, and nothing’s happened.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
There's a lot of judgement calls in baseball.
Just like strike zones and balks and swing/no swing, it’s all up to someone’s decision, and that person has biases.
There’s the rule, and then there is the intention of the rule. The intention of the rule was probably to keep the game from dragging on. The rule is then declared as two visits, which means you then have to define a visit, with the foul line and the mound stuff.
In most cases, the guy stepping off the mound and going back isn’t trying to delay the game, but the rule is the rule. The ump can enforce it based on that ‘rule is a rule’ mentality, or not if he felt the coach wasn’t trying to delay the game.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course the game went LONGER because of the enforcement of the rule
Because the Dodgers had to bring in a new pitcher (and ended up using two more).
I don’t think anybody is saying the umpire was wrong. The rule just isn’t a very good one. Why not just make it the foul line for both the beginning and end of the rule? That way if a guy’s foot is halfway on the grass off the dirt and he turns around there’s no big issue?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Right, it went longer in that instance, but the reason the rule exists keeps the game times lower in general.
If the managers obey by the rule, that is.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
The umpire was telling Mattingly to not go back, so it seems as though he was going to make the call
But Bochy was out of the dugout to make sure the call was made before the umpire could even make it.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
intention in this instance
was NOT to talk to the pitcher BUT the first baseman. if a manager is NOT talking to the pitcher it shouldn’t be uncluded as another trip to the mound and that should be reflected in the rule.
by heartstopper on Jul 23, 2010 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions
his intention
was to talk to the 1st baseman NOT the pitcher on his return. the 1st baseman asked him a question when he was walking away about where to play and M turned and took a few steps closer to talk to him
by heartstopper on Jul 21, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
But the rule SAYS it's when leaving the dirt of the mound
It’s not interpretation here. It’s actually really, really clear.
I do think the rule should be rewritten, but I don’t think the umpires got anything wrong last night.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Three more games like this...
And Andrew Bailey will have as many wins as Ben Sheets.
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/
Fun game with the group tonight.
All the more sweet with the win. Actually, sweet or not, the win sure made the BART ride (with 67M) bearable. I don’t think I could have handled nasty Boston fans on the train home.
YOU.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I want to know what secrets you and Feeba shared in the potty.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Never you mind.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I have no idea what you're talking about.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
.....And I had to face the window.
"We get two outs, and I was sure, and I had a plan, and I shook Tek off," Schilling said. "And I get a big 'What if?' for the rest of my life."
by Imaseasonticketholder on Jul 20, 2010 11:52 PM PDT reply actions
Some disagreement
Just got back from the game. From my vantage point in Section 115, row 25:
Braden did not pitch a better game than his line indicates. He was hit very hard in those first two innings. Suzuki’s shoddy throw came after a great throw that saved a run. Braden was still hit hard. He did settle down a bit, though lost it with two outs in the fourth.
Francona did not make a bad move by intentionally walking Suzuki. Kurt has been very good in late innings and has a propensity to be a slightly better player when the chips are down. Cust, on the other hand, has a propensity to be a slightly worse player when the chips are down. Even if you think that’s bullshit, walking Suzuki puts a force on three bases and sets up the double play.
As for removing Cust - Rosales has been hot of late and has a .319 average against lefties. That doesn’t make it a particularly good move, but it does make it a moderately defensible one. I think Geren’s big mistake was in the previous inning when Gross should have been pulled for Rosales with one out and none on.
When Wolf faced Hall, I thought it was a Hilary Mantel moment.
Kurt has been very good in late innings and has a propensity to be a slightly better player when the chips are down. Cust, on the other hand, has a propensity to be a slightly worse player when the chips are down
complete and utter, unfounded bullshit.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
by PL78 on Jul 21, 2010 1:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was going to put it nicer
but the point still stands. The stats prove that Cust has, historically, been a good hitter in clutch-worthy situations.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jul 21, 2010 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions
really? And hey, I am not agreeing or disagreeing but my perception as a dilettante
would be to check off a yes for Cust being a “slightly worse…when chips are down”
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.
Depends how you define "when chips are down"
For those who say he only comes through in blowouts, he’s actually WORST when the score margin in > 4 runs. His OPS for all other clutch stats is in the .800s, with the exception of 2 outs, RISP, where it’s .797 (but with a .374 OBP).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I made the statement as vague as possible..
…using the term “when the chips were down,” also adding the term “if you think it’s bullshit.”
And still I got slammed.
I just looked up a bunch of statistics about what might be referred to “when the chips are down,” such as RISP, RISP with two out, after the seventh inning, etc. - and Suzuki’s statistics are somewhat better this year, and most likely in previous years. It’s arguable because “when the chips are down” is completely and deliberately vague and because a casual observer not poring over stat books to find teeny-tiny edges that make no difference in any single at bat, could say that Suzuki is better in the clutch than Cust.
Again, I was NOT arguing that it was a good move, other than as a way to get a force at any base and a potential double play, particularly since Suzuki’s existence on the basepaths at the time was moot in terms of runs. But I was saying that Geren’s move was not completely idiotic and could be defended.
I misread my own post.
Francona’s move was defensible.
Geren’s was defensible only in the sense that Rosales was “hot” at the moment.
Hasn't Cust also been "hot" at the moment?
Also, it doesn’t take looking at “stat books” (whatever those are) for some lengthy bit of time.
No matter how you define clutch, Cust has been better that Suzuki over their careers. In some cases, he’s been SIGNIFICANTLY better.
I’m not sure how a casual observer could say Suzuki is better in the clutch than Cust and be correct when Cust is the better overall hitter (By a lot) AND Cust has the better “clutch numbers.”
Hell, in Late & Close situations, Cust’s career OPS is 150 points higher than Suzuki’s.
If you think clutch exists, Cust is better. If you don’t think it does and just think the numbers are all small sample sizes affected by noise, Cust is better (because he’s simply a much better hitter).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Confusing two issues...
The issue of not pitching to Suzuki - I have a feeling it simply came down to two issues…putting a runner on first base in order to have a force at three bases and the potential for a double play, plus the idea that Cust tends (or has tended) to hit grounders to the right, and Francona was using a shift. Now it may be that in 2010 that tendency isn’t that strong, in which case Francona’s scouting is lousy. But still, it’s not a terrible move. Suzuki does have the reputation for being a better clutch hitter than Cust, which is borne out in the past couple of years (putting aside the rest of their careers) by looking at simple RISP statistics.
Insfoar as replacing Cust with Rosales, it may simply be a case of Geren getting spooked by the shift, or Rosales being hotter, or Rosales having a better batting practice.
No, this is a plain and simple issue
Geren does not like the Cust, and the franchise has treated him like total garbage this season. He will be the only player in the history of the game I want to do well against the A’s in future games. They have treated him incredibly bad and have used absolutely no logic or numbers to back up why. It has been infuriating to watch unfold and has straight up made us a worse team on purpose, playing the clearly inferior Chavez & Fox over him.
If Cust had been DHing since opening day, we would be a game or 3 over .500 at this point. He would have won us more games, and has been a shining example of why our front office has fallen into the shitter so bad I cant even make of the Giants FO anymore, because my teams isnt worlds better than theirs like it used to be. I sincerely wish we would get a new manager, and better FO strategy because this aint cutting it right now. We should by all rights be, at least 5 games over .500 and deep in the division race. Instead we have lost so many winnable games because of poor players being on the 25 man and in-game management. This aint the A’s of the 2000’s I loved so much anymore, and its really depressing.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
*make fun of the Giants
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Obviously possible
Managers have players they like and players they don’t like.
Insofar as how management treated Cust - there was no reason for him to start the season in AAA, lower on the organization totem pole than Eric Patterson. Cust struggled during April so I’m not sure his absence would have meant too much to the A’s, other than that even struggling, he’s a better hitter than either Patterson or Fox. It was a bonehead move, and it was a move that was both debilitating and insulting toward Cust.
wht so enamored with Cust?
it GREAT to see hime htting well now and it is even BETTER that that he has hit some homeruns in the last week of games. BUT Cust cannot be seen as a good player based on his career REGARDLESS of the homeruns he hit.
he got sent down to AAA because he wasn’t hitting. He started hitting better and he has carried that on to the A’s. But until recently he wasn’t hitting homeruns and he was still striking out at his HIGH rate which is probably one reason he doesn’t hit into as many GIDP.
Also, it is difficult to play him in the outfield because he is BOTH a POOR fielder AND a poor arm. Those two things hurt.(last yearshe was rated as having one of the poorest arms in the AL, bottom five i think).
All the power to him. But maybe his time down at SAC got him to think a bit and hit better which makes his value to the A’s a little higher now. Hopefully he keeps hitting some HRs.
by heartstopper on Jul 22, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
There's something else regarding Cust/Rosales that didn't end up coming into play, but should have been in Geren's feeble mind
Teams almost always put a shift on Cust. In last night’s situation, they would’ve been unable to do so. As a result, Cust was even more likely than normal to do something positive on a ball in play. He doesn’t hit into very many DPs.
And there’s the part where Richardson has never been especially awesome against lefties, even in the minors (and so far in the majors he’s been TERRIBLE in a very small sample).
Cust has also been better w/RISP than Rosales this year.
The ONLY thing Rosales had going in his favor was his platoon advantage, and coming into the game cold really limited what advantage he may have normally had.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 5:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like jd said, Richardson is crap
He was all over the place, as expected. If it wasn’t for Rosales’ zealousness at the plate, he could have walked. Cust would have most certainly walked.
I guess it didn’t matter in the end, but the right move was leaving Cust in.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Gameday Says
The pitch that Rosales struck out on was in the the strike zone according to Gameday.
So you can complain about a lot of things, but I don’t think you can credibly argue that Rosales should’ve taken that pitch, or that he would’ve gotten a walk on it.
I think it was the 0-2 or 1-2 pitch that was neck level
That’s more of what I was referring to. Once he had two strikes he had to hack.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
did anyone else think that Barton missed home plate?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
no.
crazy ed.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
did anyone think Jeremy Giambi should have slid?
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Please stop
Someone else mentioned that play last night.
(spins around in a circle and then dies)
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
It looked like to me that his body slid into it. He didn’t actually touch it with his hand, I thought.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 21, 2010 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Did the catcher put his mitt on Barton?
I didn’t see the catcher ever get the mitt close & try to tag.
So moot.
by MobiusKlein on Jul 21, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
ON the radio feed
you could hear clear as day what Balken bob said.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Reading lips, it was "Get the f*** out of here!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's what I heard on the radio.
I missed the context, though, because I was only half paying attention at that point. Presumably the archive is still at MLB audio, if anyone cares enough to track it down.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I read his lips on the radio
Yep.
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
yup.
Why does the ump get to swear at managers, but a manager swearing at the ump is an ejection?
by MobiusKlein on Jul 21, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do kids not get to tell there parents what to do?
Why are their bosses? Why is someone in charge of our country?
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
there
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
she blows
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I just moved to America
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Umpires are not the bosses of the players or managers
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Have you missed the last few years of baseball?
They are these days. They are no longer facilitate the game.
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Let me rephrase
They’re not supposed to be the bosses of players and managers. Some of them definitely think they are. Those guys shouldn’t be employed.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm with ya on that one
and it’s obvious when commentators of several teams talk about the same umps year after year.
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
answering rhetorical questions with gusto!
first, nobody is ‘in charge’ of our country. No grand puppet master pulling the strings, no dictatorship.
Bosses get to set schedules and such, but most of us retain lots of freedom outside the work, and even at work. We consent to some degree to the organizational structure as a requirement of a cohesive workplace.
Kid’s don’t get to tell the parents what to do because the parents have the money and size advantage.
by MobiusKlein on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I hate the way that the game has changed
but they are doing whatever they want these days.
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
It's completely possible that Davidson will be fined for it
But we’ll never hear about it.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
It depends on what you say, usually, and how you say it.
If you call the ump a name, that’s it and you’re likely tossed. If you just swear in general, the umps usually don’t do anything.
It looked to me like Coco glanced over his shoulder as he said it, which the ump can interpret as a direct jab, and he did.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I remember that.
It’s like they somehow got a mic down there deliberately to hear what the shouting was about.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
FUCK BOSTON
I know I was beaten to that but who gives a shit, it needs to be said again.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Great game!
And great company: LoneStranger, Mikev, Cousinv, Pam, Feeba, The Great Ralphtini, Wacco, Uncle67, DMOAS, Jojo, and of course Bloomie – with special appearances by Poppy, Giggles, SkiGurl, and SuSlu!
(hope I didn’t forget anyone)
And I gotta say, for those that didn’t show up, we had some good ass food too! (Of course)
[munches on the left over potato salad from Jojo]
Zooey Deschanel!
Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS
You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury
by ChickenStanley on Jul 21, 2010 12:40 AM PDT reply actions
DID SU SLU FINALLY MEET BLOOM???
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
yep.
She was everything I thought she would be.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 21, 2010 3:26 AM PDT up reply actions
He was everything she thought she would be.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Does she have a ring on that finger?
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Wants to be?
Ha!
Been there, done that.
Next
Zooey Deschanel!
Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS
You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury
by ChickenStanley on Jul 21, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Reply fail...
grrr…stupid thing moving when I don’t notice
Zooey Deschanel!
Cluck 'em all and let the Chick sort 'em out - DMOAS
You're worried that you'll come off as nerdy as fuck? On AN? That’s like being ashamed of your alcohol use at a meth convention. - danmerqury
by ChickenStanley on Jul 21, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I was like...WTF...I don't get it
I know I’m slow but geez….WTF CS.
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
BrotherV, Chickie.
And that was fun.
As far as pulling in the special guest stars, allow me to point out…I’m kind of a big deal. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany. I’m a personal friend of Merlin Olsen.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 21, 2010 3:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Well you have...
a breathtaking hiney. CS wants to be friends with it.
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I got to meet Poppy.
I’ll never top that.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
meh
I met poppy years and years ago…
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Well you're so much cooler than I am.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
but I don't wear mauve or pink :-)
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Poppy does not love pink enough.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
If my a coworker didn't go to Disneyland today and I wasn't the only one that could close tonight,
I would have been there, too. Boooooooo Disneyland.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
Nico, I have to disagree with this
Not only was Geren completely outmatched,
In the contest to be the most bone-headed manager, Francona made a strong effort by walking Suzuki, but Geren completely pwned him by pinch-hitting for Cust. Geren is still undefeated as champion bonehead.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Funky game, correct result
Just the idea that we are pinch hitting with anyone for our DH and allegedly main power stick with the winner on 2nd is kinda crazy, but that’s Bobo, esp. with the limited tools (mental and personnel-related) he has to work with. If we failed to plate Barton in the 10th I’d have put Raj in CF and Rosy in LF with Coco ejected (his words to Balkin’ Bob were “You f*ckin suck!” after that AB), but thankfully we’ll never know.
I gotta admit when SuSlu and CT were assuring the viewers on Chronicle Live that Bob Geren’s option is almost certainly gonna be picked up for 2011, a part of me jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.
I hope Gio sacks up like a manly Gio for 8+ tomorrow cuz there ain’t much ’pen left after this one… although I gotta say Wuertz and the Brezident of the United States are looking really good; Wuertz is almost 2009-esque lately.
Great win, I want MORE Wednesday and am sick of this “get to .500 and then fail to go over .500” nonsense… we need this series and really we need to say it to the White Sox f*ckin face this weekend as well.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
Well said, EN
The A’s don’t need to make any deals at the deadline.
If Carter/Taylor keep on raking, the A’s can simply bring them both up and it’ll be like acquiring two big bats.
Imagine the firepower after adding a hot Carter and a hot Taylor…
lets also remember
bucholtz is coming off an injury so he is prolly limited in his pitches, which means…. if the a’s can be patient we get to a tirrd bullpen.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
With Rosales pinch hitting for Cust
we would have had to lose the DH to put him in the field, so I would think it would have been Rajai to CF and one of the Matt’s in LF. Other then that, I agree with the rest of your post especially regarding Wuertz. His slider is looking really good lately and if he could get back closer to ’09 form, this bullpen just got a lot better.
Braden
I think he actually pitched a little worse than his line appeared. The red sux just took some extended BP
A win today will be really sweet.
“Lets go Oakland”
good return game for braden.
i thought we were gonna get killed so since that didnt happen i think thats as promising for bradens return as it gets. that ump was a doucher tho lets throw him out of the game next time.
I thought the move to pinch hit Rosales for Cust
was wrong but not indefensible. Rosales has legitimately mashed LHP this year (.315/.386/.507) and in any situation where a HR and single have essentially the same value Cust’s value goes down. I can see the logic.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's not that flawed
One might label Rosales as a “.300/.350” hitter vs. LHP and Cust a “.250/.350” hitter vs. LHP. Slugging is pretty irrelevant in that particular situation. If Geren felt he was trading one .350 OBP guy for another by putting the one in who was more BA heavy, it makes sense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Are you factoring in that guys coming in cold to PH are significantly worse than normal?
And actually, I think Cust was also more likely to get a single in that situation, especially without the shift.
You’re right there was SOME justification for using Rosales. It wasn’t totally indefensible. But that also doesn’t make it right (as you acknowledge).
Not Geren’s worst move, but still one that could’ve cost them the game.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, Rosales' career line as a PH is .167/.189/.417
So if you’re ignoring slugging, Geren just put in a significantly worse hitter.
Pam liked my old sig better.
and richardson's reverse platoon splits
(Sample size warning)
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
His minor league numbers suggest he's better against lefties
But not significantly so.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
No I wasn't factoring that in
Just pointing out that there were some logical reasons in favor as well as against. My take: Bad move, but not evidence of a manager being an idiot.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I got confused above when trying to defend Francona....and wound up blaming Geren
Both moves (walking Suzuki, pinch hitting Cust) were moves that had some rationale. They were not necessarily stupid moves.
What folks here forget is that a tiny statistical edge means nothing in any given single at-bat. That’s why Cash can get a hit when Ortiz doesn’t. Francona walked Suzuki to face Cust because he wanted a potential double-play and whatever possible edge he gets by going with Cust rather than Suzuki is negated, if such an edge exists. Geren brings in Adam Rosales because whatever statistical edge he might have with Cust is overcome by the fact that Rosales is swinging a hotter bat, or appears to be, at the moment. It’s possible Geren liked the way Rosales looked at batting practice before the game.
All managers make errors that look stupid, and Geren has made more than his share. But these two “mistakes” aren’t really mistakes. And, in the end, nobody outmaneuvered anybody.
And Rosey has at least a slightly better chance to outrun the double play.
by LoneStranger on Jul 21, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Cust would theoretically be a better candidate to hit into a GIDP
For one, he’s slower. For another, he has a strong tendency to hit grounders to the right side right into the shift.
You can easily negate that by noting he’s also more likely to get a walk. But you could arguably call it a wash.
Cust has hit into 27 DPs in *nine* years and over 2,000 PAs in the big leagues
and 79 DPs in over 4900 PAs in the minors.
He just doesn’t do it. He’s not a ground ball to the infield hitter.
Pam liked my old sig better.
There wouldn't have BEEN a shift with a runner on second
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
It wasn't a super-shift, but everyone was moved over a bit.
mikev must have not been paying attention to Cust earlier this season when he was frequently hitting ground balls to the right side. He’s not doing it now, which could mean that the Red Sox have crappy scouting reports.
Do you know how many GIDPs Cust has this year?
Honestly. Taking Cust out because he might GIDP is possibly the stupidest fucking thing that a manager could do with this team.
Pam liked my old sig better.
I give up
If you want to believe this was “the stupidest fucking thing that a manager can do with this team” then you really haven’t been paying much attention to Geren’s frequently stupider moves.
The best part of this move, watching the game at the Coliseum
Was thinking about all the Cust-lovers at AN screaming and punching things when he was removed for a pinch-hitter.
Who actually loves Cust?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm glad you're in favor of moves that hurt the team
when you think it’s pissing off people on the internet.
Meanwhile, I said it was a bad move at the time while I was at the game with a big ass group of ANers too.
So you could go ahead and get off that high horse whenever you feel like it.
Pam liked my old sig better.
nope. I simply said it was a fucking dumb move
even if it worked.
Then I went back to having beers and enjoying baseball with friends, and not giving a shit about what someone on the internet might be thinking or doing.
Try it some time.
Pam liked my old sig better.
interesting concept
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 21, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, well...
It was no big deal for us either, just gave us a small chuckle. And the game ended with a win.
it's laughing at AN Camp
knowing the fulminations occurring can be a source of gallows humor.
Just like Barton Bunting will spawn insane ramblings too.
Correct or not, it can be entertaining to watch.
by MobiusKlein on Jul 21, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
richwol1, what you're doing here
is speculating about a stat (Cust’s GIDP) that is unbelievably easy to check in about 10 seconds. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to speculate about whether Cust hits into lots of DPs. You can just go look it up. I can’t really think of a good reason to discuss the issue without checking the facts first.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Jeez....
Correct me if I’m wrong: All I said was that earlier this year, Cust was hitting grounders to the right side, and he’s not doing that any more. I said nothing, nothing, nothing about GIDP.
Did Geren make a bonehead move? Probably. All I said - all Nico said about the moves by Geren and by Francona - is that they COULD be defended. Not that either man is smart; not that Geren perpetually makes bonehead moves. Not that Cust doesn’t hit into GIDPs.
"Cust would theoretically be a better candidate to hit into a GIDP...
For one, he’s slower. For another, he has a strong tendency to hit grounders to the right side right into the shift."
That’s what you actually said. Which looks a lot to me like a comment about GIDP.
My point is that there’s no reason to get theoretical about it. It will take you less time to look up Cust’s GIDP stats than to post the comment you did speculating about his GIDP stats. Rosales, BTW, also has very few GIDP in his career, as mikev said.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Okay, let me repeat
“For one, he’s slower.”
check.
“For another, he has a strong tendency to hit grounders to the right side right into the shift.”
A grounder to the right side is a grounder to the right side. I’m not saying he hits into GIDPs. I’m saying he’s had a tendency to hit grounders to the right side, which is why many teams play the shift. Because of that, he would theoretically be a better candidate to hit into a GIDP…that’s theoretical and has nothing to do with the actual number of GIPDs he hits…I mean, as has been pointed out, it may simply be that Geren hates Cust, or is playing some other percentage, or that Francona was throwing a hail mary pass by walking Suzuki to face Cust.
Yes, and Ryan Sweeney is theoretically a better power hitter than Chase Utley
because he’s bigger and has those broad shoulders.
There’s no reason to speculate about whether Cust GIDPs a lot. You can take 10 seconds and find out whether Cust actually has a tendency to hit into lots of DPs. Once you have the facts, then you can speculate on their causes. You’re speculating about the causes of a non-existent fact. Why even bother to do that?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think ultimately richwol's thesis is that
Cust hits a lot of grounders to the right side that aren’t DP balls. Which isn’t probably true OR worth defending.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's less a thesis than a possible explanation
It was a potential reason why Francona would walk Suzuki to get to Cust.
In retrospect, the real reason is more likely that walking Suzuki opened the door not only to a force at third but also to a potential double-play, whether Cust hits into them or not. In other words, a reason that is neither interesting nor compelling.
As for choosing Rosales over Cust, and looking back at some of the responses, maybe Geren is a bigger idiot than I gave him credit for. There doesn’t appear to be any reason, other than bias or some mistaken psychic moment, to make that substitution.
If Geren liked the way Rosales looked at batting practice,
why wasn’t he in the game?
I still think it was a bonehead move, but you make a good point that possibly he saw something about one or both of the guys specific to the situation just then that had more weight than overall stats and talent level. That’s something we often ignore.
I’d give Geren more benefit of the doubt on that sort of thing if he didn’t have a history of making questionable switches. If one possibility is the manager has a shrewd instinctive sense of how all his guys are playing and is good at guessing who will be hot right now, and another theory is the manager is simple-minded and just thinks righty-against-lefty and doesn’t go any further than that, what I’ve seen of Geren is a better fit with the second description.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Maybe because they didn't take BP against a knucleballer
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
You're probably right...
…but I think the idea here is to simply say that his decision is defensible, not that it’s a good one.
Almost anything has justification.
Arguing that he can justify the bad move is silly, I think. That doesn’t make it any less of a bad move.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Not really
Geren’s explanations for the double-switch SNAFUs had absolutely no justification. They were lies.
Were they sweet, little ones?
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
You keep talking about a "tiny stastistical edge" as if it's 1 point of OBP or something
Cust is SIGNIFICANTLY better at offense than anybody else in this discussion.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Massage?
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 21, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
There is plenty of other events in evidence of that
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 21, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
We all agree Bob Geren BLOWS
but he’s not going anywhere, Beane is not going to let it happen. We just have to hope that the talent level gets to the point where it doesn’t matter who is in the dugout anymore like when Art Howe was managing.
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
I'm pretty sure Geren could figure out a way to guide the 27 Yankees to a third-place finish
He’d pinch hit for Babe Ruth against mediocre lefties late in the game because his OPS vs. lefties was lower.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
More like a higher OPS vs that pitcher maybe.
Confounded Babe: WTF Bob! I’m the greatest hitter of all time!
Geren: Sorry Babe, Rajai is 3 for 4 against this guy. Don’t worry, I still have confidence in you. Keep working hard and you’ll be fine.
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
New look lineup
OaklandAs
#Athletics vs. #RedSox: Pennington SS, Barton 1B, Suzuki C, Cust DH, Kouzmanoff 3B, Ellis 2B, Watson LF, Davis RF, Crisp CF, Gonzalez P
7 minutes ago via UberTwitter
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
I like this a lot
Except for the Rosales non-start, but I like Pennington at the top of the lineup.
"Swingles is Day to Day: IE: He’s being turned into a zombie, but they don’t want the world to know for another 5 days (retroactive)" ~Zonis
How sad that we're actually happy to see Matt Watson in the lineup.
This is what happens when you force Gabe Gross down our throats. Matt Watson becomes an exciting alternative.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 21, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Rosales in there
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't worry, he'll be pinch hitting for Cust later
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
lol
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!
by cuppingmaster on Jul 21, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm listening to Ray Charles
“I’ve got a woman” but after last night I really don’t. OHHHHHHH YEAH!!
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 10:46 AM PDT reply actions
That's a good song, but not good enough to cost you an actual woman. Didn't she like it last night?
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
It's a long distance thing that was driving me nuts anyway
Amen to freedom!!
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I for one, am tired of hearing Jack Cust as such a good "hitter", he has the best EYE on the team, therefore
he amasses a high OBP, and a .631 OPS, over the last week. I don’t mind pinch hitting for him. Geren is doing what he feels gives them the best chance, and just like everyone here, although some of you must never make mistakes, somethings work, some don’t
So were you also okay with Matt Carson pinch-hitting for Cust?
Spending time with my nephew and the AN Crew on July 10th...PRICELESS!
by ohtobe21likehuston on Jul 21, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
The hard part comes in the case where the A's don't score in the 10th
No Cust in later innings, one less outfielder to swap in, especially after Crisp’s ejection.
by MobiusKlein on Jul 21, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
When I make mistakes, someone usually points it out and I don't issue a whiny retort of
“Maybe you never make mistakes, but I’m doing the best I can. Leave me alone you big meanie”
Daric Barton has become an unsupervised bunting fool - Christina Kahrl
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 21, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I had my first softball game of the year
Don’t worry, you guys got me good, as I hit a grand slam but ended the night with a pulled groin, and not the good kind. I really missed you guys though
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 21, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, pretty tender today. Hence, sitting in bed listening to the A's take the series
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 21, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
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