What to do with Mark Ellis?
by PL78 on Jul 10, 2010 12:00 PM PDT
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PrintMark Ellis, he of sparkling defense and a current not-too-shabby .284/.350/.364 slash line, looks to have some trade value right now, and is out of contract at the end of the year. He does, however, have an option for $6.5MM next year that we can pick up and hope he can push himself into type B status for 2012. However, his current contract was signed before the FA market crash and $6.5MM can buy you a better player than Ellis these days. Orlando Hudson, who is excellent and not as injury prone as Ellis, signed a $5MM 1 year deal this year. To put it in perspective, his WAR from 2008-present is 6.3, Ellis's is 4.7. So playing Hudson over Ellis adds 1-2 wins to your team every year, yet Ellis would be in line to make more money than Hudson, but Ellis isnt as valuable as he, so that in mind..
CHOICE A: picking up his option, does not seem like a wise move, as we could in theory get a better player on the FA market next offseason. 32 year old 2Bs dont exactly set the market on fire these days as evidenced above. Options here are to:
1. Trade him. Even though it will be basically a O-Cab-Ladendorf deal, let him go. Next year we can get a better player for him (or might even have one internally) who will give us the same value for less money, bye Mark, its been fun.
2. Trade him, but re-sign him for less money in the offseason. Is there a team who will pay him $7MM next year? No way man, he's pretty much a $3MM player at this point. If you like our chances of us getting him (he doesnt seem like a bitter or spiteful guy, he's a professional and understands how teams try not to overpay for people). This option gets us a player, plus Ellis, plus if Ellis suddenly goes bezerk, 2005 style, and launches himself into Type A/B status, then we get draft picks. Its the most risky move, but has the potential for the highest reward.
CHOICE B: Keep him and pick up the option. He might not be that easy to sign as a FA, plus you might not have confidence with our internal options.
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I’d look into trading Mark Ellis because I think he can help out a contending team. I don’t think he alone can get us something decent in return, but packaging him with Ben Sheets may get us something decent in return. I could see the White Sox, Dodgers, Phillies, Mets or Cardinals interested. They could all use a second baseman and a maybe a starting pitcher to bolster the back of the rotation. (I know the White Sox, Dodgers and Mets could use the starting pitcher.)
As for signing Ellis in the offseason, I wouldn’t mind it at all, of course. I’m sure there will be teams after him, but I think the risk we’re taking in trading him is worth it.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 10, 2010 12:14 PM PDT reply actions
A trade isn't a bad idea
I just wonder what kind of return you could get for him. This is only a half-formed thought, but in light of how sneaky-valuable Ellis has been at various intervals for the A’s, it would kind of be a shame (conceptually) to give him away for nothing.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Hmm...Sheets, Ellis, and add Ynoa
and maybe the Cardinals would give us their cleanup hitter!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Hopefully we can get something better than Tyler Ladendorf.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 10, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be hard not to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
is that... who I think it is?
[runs away, hides in corner]
by whiteshoes40 on Jul 10, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Option B would be great
If everything fell in place as hoped for…Either way i don’t see a negative with trading Ellis, but unless we package him with Sheets or prospects we won’t get much. Bullpen help generally comes at a cheap price compared to SP or position players, so if he wasn’t packaged MAYBE you could get a decent arm from a contender for him.
by Po' Boy on Jul 10, 2010 1:38 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Certainly a curious case.
I don’t know that the rest of the league values him as much as we here at AN do, and I’m not sure I’d love what we get in return. Cardenas and Weeks could both turn out to be great, but they both seem like bust candidates as well. On the flip side, I don’t know that he’s healthy enough keep around, and I don’t have the confidence to send him out there in 2011 as our starting 2B, without some sort of solid backup plan ready.
I think we listen to offers, and try to package him with Sheets. If the return is something like Ladendorf, or a C prospect added on in a Sheets trade, I think we should hold onto him for 2011 and pray he stays healthy.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
There is so much wrong with this post
Yes, the idea of trading Ellis is worth discussing but not here, not after that fucked up intro.
The monster at the end of this blog.
"fucked up intro"?
excuse me?
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
You know, the basics...
Factual and conceptual errors.
And you’ve been around long enough that no, I don’t excuse you. Next time put in more than 5 minutes of research into a post and provide sensible voting options.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 10, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still dont see any factual errors though, and I did research this.
Additionally 79 people voted, so my options were fine.
Oh wait, I get it, I forgot AN was CNN and had to have nothing but pro journalism all of a sudden. Its a fucking blog dude, get over it. You dont want to tell me what Im doing wrong? DONT POST IN HERE THEN.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
by PL78 on Jul 10, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I don't see any glaring errors either
If we want to nitpick, Ellis has a $6 million option with 0.5 buy out for 2010 not 6.5 million. The difference between Ellis and Hudson is basically all this year although Hudson was better last year and is better this year, so the trend could be in favor of Orlando. Ellis is already a B FA so he wouldn’t need to “push” his way to that but if the A’s were to let Ellis go and he isn’t that valuable, I find it unlikely the A’s could offer arbitration and get the draft picks.
I did find it confusing how you suggested he could perform to become type B by 2012, but upon closer inspection it makes some sense. I think, that could be your biggest error and what grover is talking about.
And your poll should have the fourth option of course.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
But does it deserve such a negative aka "fucked up" description?
I have no idea why grover is so mad here. I think I covered most of the relevant bases. I never insulted Ellis and in fact I indeed voted in favor of trading him then resigning him for less than $6MM next year. Really strange why he went off on me here….
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
by PL78 on Jul 11, 2010 2:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
For the love of Ba'al
I’m tired of the mediocre fanposts. I’m tired of the fanposts that were obviously researched in less than 5 minutes. I’m tired of fanposts that essentially say “I want to talk about Player X but I have no idea what I want to do with him!”
Want to know why I’m pissed off?
I’ve read your post 3 times and I still have no idea what YOUR opinion is on what to do with Mark Ellis.
“Mark Ellis, he of the sparkling defense”… is currently sitting at 1 run below-average according to UZR. In the last season and a half he’s .5 runs above-average. Sparkling? Are you kidding me? You bring up his WAR score vs. Hudson so you must have looked at the data, right? ‘Cause if you didn’t… that alone makes this a half-assed post from the get go.
Ellis is due $6 million on a club option in 2011, but according to WAR he’s less valuable than Orlando Hudson whom earned a $5 million contract this past offseason. OK, ignoring that fact just about anytime you compare contracts from two separate years is tricky at best (because you often find yourself dealing with two separate sets of market factors and it’s typically wrong to judge one event by the conditions that created the other) your entire thought process on the value and worth of Ellis is jumbled from beginning to end.
For one, the decision to pick up his option is, at this point, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You can easily hold off on that discussion until the end of the year. But if you feel a moral imperative to bring it up now as a way to segue into free agency… well shit… I can’t follow your logic.
“32 year old 2Bs don’t exactly set the world on fire” and he’s not worth $6 million and he should only get $3 million in FA (not exactly sure where you get that number but moving on) yet if the A’s decline his option or the team they trade him to declines his option (which would probably only happen if he went somewhere else and completely sucked… are you anticipating that to happen?) there’s a chance the competition to sign Mark Ellis as a FA would be so fierce the A’s wouldn’t be able to bring him back in 2011 if they desired to do so.
Not a clue…
You bring up draft picks. Ellis is currently Type B eligible. The only way a team can get a draft pick for a departing FA is if they offer him salary arbitration. So Ellis, who is currently making $5.5 million (but is only worth $3 million, again not sure how you got that figure) shouldn’t be brought back to Oakland at $6 million but to insure the draft pick the A’s should offer him salary arbitration that could push his salary to… I don’t know… $7 million? Or something like that.
And if you’re going to talk about trading Ellis at least have the decency to talk about the teams that might be interested in him!
Other than all that your fanpost was fine.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 11, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I would rather read his fanpost than your angry negative crap about how bad it is
"To tell the truth, I'm not excited to go to Cleveland, but we have to. If I ever saw myself saying I'm excited going to Cleveland, I'd punch myself in the face, because I'm lying" - Ichiro
by Philip Christy on Jul 11, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
But you don't have to choose!
That’s why America is a great country.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
+ sideways eight
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's fine
And if you’d rather sit there and read a bad fanpost and not be critical of it then that too is your choice.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I didn't care for the angry negative crap,
but I am glad that it prompted grover’s response, which has some very interesting information.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
That made me smile
I’ve decided I owe you a beverage of your choice if and when our paths should cross.
The monster at the end of this blog.
This is really the pot calling the kettle black
1. UZR needs 3 years of data to be used properly, dude.
2. I thought Ellis had missed the type B cutoff, so for that, i agree, i was wrong.
3. Why would I need to talk about teams that need him? What a pedestrian concept….uh, how about ANY team in the playoff hunt, looking to upgrade at 2B at their current situation, or any team dealing with injuries there who dont want to downgrade too much? Come on, its obvious.
4. My post isnt even close to mediocre, coming from a guy who cant write a post without cursing through it, your post here is hardly even eloquent or provides any real insight either, oh really? Lots of teams want Cliff Lee huh? Wow. Hugely insightful piece of writing there. So glad your anlaysis of what a team needs ends at 5 words. Truly mediocre stuff there. I dont care how long people have posted, and Im tired of AN veterans bullying the newer people around. I’d understand if I wrote something slanderous, ala the anti-Cust crud that sometimes happens here, but my post was pretty much all above the belt, and yours completely below it. Grow up.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
by PL78 on Jul 11, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
This is sad
1) I’m eager to hear the rational argument that can take Ellis’ last 3 years of defensive data and desribe it as “sparkling”.
2) Thank you.
3) Half your post is about trading Ellis and you don’t feel a need to mention who might be interested. Lazyness.
4) You tried to make a funny.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jul 11, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
you know youre an AN veteran so the new kid vrs mean old gover doesn't make much sense
Was it better than the Cust shit yes. But come on youre better than this.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow....
Poor “new kid”….perhaps he should find a community a bit more willing to embrace a fellow fan rather than kick him around for the sake of their fraternity…..
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Ellis being a Type B guy right now is one of the errors grover was alluding to?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 11, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions
this isn't the A's blog I run, but...
… a nasty comment like that should get someone kicked off.
by vk on Jul 10, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Delivery may be harsh, but grover is right
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 10, 2010 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I still have no idea why.
Seriously. What did I do wrong here?
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Oooooooo.... scary!
That attitude probably goes a long way in explaining why I don’t take your blog seriously.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Come on guys
I enjoy both of you, both in posts and comments. Did it really need to be so angsty?
Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast!
It jumped up a notch. It did, didn’t it? Yeah, I stabbed a man in the heart.
I saw that! Brick killed a guy! Did you throw a trident?
Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident.
Brick, I’ve been meaning to talk to you about that. You should probably find yourself a safehouse or a relative close by. Lay low for a while, because you’re probably wanted for murder.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 11, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Grover's got issues
Tired of the mediocre fanposts? How ’bout tired of bickering and bitching? Who wants to read that shit?
Thanks!!!
Thank you for yet ANOTHER reminder of why this site went from best A’s blog on the net to tabloid-like trash within a few years. That was just a dick move, grover. You don’t need to be a jerk because YOU don’t like the content. Elitism killed this once fine site…..
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
You don't think it was just as elitist 2 and 4 years ago?
“Plus ça change…” I say. You’re glorifying the past.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Glorifying?
Not so much as remembering, LONG ago, (I think my # as 144 or something, back when you could rollover the mouse and check the userid#), when this was a fun site. There’s always a level of elitism, sure. That comment was so far out of line it’s absurd. Since it’s a tenured member of the site, no biggie. I just seem to remember when those types of remarks weren’t tolerated, or maybe folks just had a little more respect for one another back then. Clearly, the site still has enough good content to come check it out once a month or so, but this USED to be a fun community worth being a part of everyday that seemed to be free of blatantly rude, aggressive, oppresive posts such as that. Sure, you get the occasional troll or whatnot, but nothing so awful as that between two “friends” enjoying fandom of the same team. Change is good, agreed. So is discussion. The guy clearly had a passion for discussing this topic. No need to slam it in such a manner. My $0.02.
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Oppresive?
I’ll let the rest go ‘cause you’re entitled to your opinion. But I did not say that PL78 didn’t have a right to post. I said his fanpost was crap and a waste of time.
The monster at the end of this blog.
...
“Yes, the idea of trading Ellis is worth discussing but not here, not after that fucked up intro.”
Your words?
–adjective
1. burdensome, unjustly harsh, or tyrannical: an oppressive king; oppressive laws.
2. causing discomfort by being excessive, intense, elaborate, etc.: oppressive heat.
3. distressing or grievous: oppressive sorrows.
Unjustly harsh? Check. Burdensome? Check. Causing discomfort by being excessive, intense, etc? Check. Yep. Fits the textbook definition(s)……
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Your userid# appears on your user page
Look in the Athletics Nation box under “memberships”. Yours is #1027.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It'd be nice if you didn't take one guy's post and stretch it over the whole site.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
LOL
This fanpost was DOA.
Me calling someone out on crap is as old as AN.
You’re lying to yourself if you truly believe that being critical of another poster is what led to this site becoming “tabloid-like trash”.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Being critical?
Or being an absolute dick about it? There is a difference. You used to have more class, plain and simple.
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Sometimes there's just no way to avoid calling crap... crap.
Unlike PL78 I’m willing to express my plain opinion on a matter.
The monster at the end of this blog.
....
Defend yourself all you like. It was entirely uncalled for and you could’ve done the same with class, if you felt so inclined to be respectful about it. YOu clearly didn’t. Own it.
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I stand by what I said and how I said it.
What you consider uncalled for I consider well overdue.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Thus....
proving my entire point. The fact that you consider that well overdue speaks volumes to your character. Your article about teams needs was rather poorly written as well, yet I don’t see you rushing to call that out. C’mon, half the teams (AT LEAST!) that you identified as needing SP, don’t (and that’s just the beginning). So if your going to run around preaching “crap is crap”, make sure you aren’t throwing those stones from a house made entirely of glass….
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
As for my post
I could pull quotes from the GM/manager from almost every team that I listed stating that they were shopping for pitching. The one team I can’t is the Red Sox and I made note of that in the post.
And I admit my now 600+ commented fanpost wasn’t my best work. I had a near metric ton of info to get out there to set up a follow-up piece.
So follow your own stone throwing advice.
And as for my character… your opinion of it has been noted.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Its simple
if you dont like a post, dont post in it. if its a bad post it will have like 8 replies and it will be considered a fail. There, easy solution to the (really minor) problem (that you are blowing out of proportion).
Instead you made a hateful post and blew up the post, which I’m sure was the opposite of your intention. If you hate, you will be hated in return. Its life.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I think that there is value in pointing out a lot of factual errors like grover has
keeps you (royal you) from writing stupid shit if youre going to get called on it.
I love when grover goes after my posts it really makes sure you know your shit.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
but....
if he’s making the same errors, he shouldn’t be rudely calling out someone else on it…..why is it hard for some of you to tell the difference between criticism and flat-out being a jerk?
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
grover doesn't make the same errors at all
I really have no idea of what youre talking about.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
...
The “Shopping list” post is full of ’em…..
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats true
but he didnt do that here.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
yes he did
but honestly its a pattern with you so a little gruffness is warranted in my book
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Wow....
You do realize the “stone throwing” analogy doesn’t fit here at all, right? Perhaps I gave you too much credit when you realized how wrong you were in denying your post was oppressive. PL’s right. If you don’t like it, move on. If you want to be helpful and criticize in a manner that maintains some semblance of respect for your fellow A’s fan, have at. If you want to just be a hateful prick, keep it to yourself. You (and the rest of us) will be better off. Also, I HIGHLY doubt it (in re: to your “quotes”) as just recently I’ve seen quotes to the OPPOSITE of that effect from the Reds (willing to deal SP with 3 all ready after the ASB) and White Sox (who are quite content calling up their stud prospect). THe Yankees have also publicly said they aren’t looking for SP. Shall I continue, or can you have SOME humility at some point and admit you were WAY out of line here, as you aren’t exactly the best poster yourself at times?
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: Humility....
I DID just read an article about KW (White Sox) saying he’d like to acquire some pitching, I give that one right back to ya’!
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
You know the Reds were in on the Lee deal right?
and so were the White Soxs though neither had the farm to give up for it. And Peavy got hurt so go they want pitching. Also the Yankees were willing to trade a top 15 MILB prospect for Lee so please know what the fuck youre talking about before saying others don’t
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
....
You are also aware of the term “posturing”? Cashman’s a genius at it. You think other GM’s aren’t? Attack me all you want for sticking up for the guy. Doesn’t do anything but prove my point.
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Right and the Yankees are furious that they thought they had a deal and Z went back to texas tweets by Olney + Rosenthal are full of shit too
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
What the fuck?
. THe Yankees have also publicly said they aren’t looking for SP.
So that whole part about them trading their #1 prospect for Cliff Lee was all smokescreen?
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Um, yes.....
There are tons of articles out there about posturing and driving the price up…..it was Cashman at his best (I begrudgingly admit). So, yeah. Smokescreen.
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Where are these "tons of articles"
Everything I’ve read said the Yankees are fucking pissed they didn’t get Lee, because, you know….they were actually trying to get Cliff Lee.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 11, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
that's just not even close to correct.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
by mikev on Jul 11, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wait a sec...
So if Seattle had come back after all the physicals were OK’d and said “Deal” Cashman would have turned around and yelled “Gotcha!”?
Not sure I’m buying that one.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Stone throwing refers to you attacking the factual integrity of my previous fanpost
You want to go after the facts of my fanpost? Go for it. There’s already people in this thread proving you wrong.
Now, if your stone throwing comment was actually directed towards the… artistic measure of my post then OK, my use of the metaphor is out of place. (‘Course that’s not what you said in your previous comment.) Let me make this perfectly clear… I was making a shopping list and I had no intention of making it into a literary masterpiece!
The monster at the end of this blog.
you realize the site stopped being as elitist which has led to shit content right?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps....
Maybe arrogance of a certain collection of users would have been more appropriate. I can’t believe ANYONE can defend those actions. We’re all fans of the same team, wanting to discuss said team. Why does anyone deserve to be verbally sh*t on for that? Especially someone who clealy felt passionately about having the discussion. Funny thing about opinions, some folks like actually discussing the matter before arriving to their final conclusion. Apparently, that’s a cardinal sin here….a blog for (not?) discussing baseball….I mean, he’s railing him about his lack of opinion…..he’s clearly got no respect for the poster…..why/how is this defensible in any way/shape/form to treat a fellow fan in sucha a manner?
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
because PL78 got a whole lotta facts wrong
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
So....
instead of trying to help a guy out, let’s kick him in the teeth? You guys must feel real high and mighty up there, mistake free and all….
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I hear that there is a fairy that gives for turning in kicked in teeth. You don't get anything if youre just nice to people
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
She doesn't give anything to the person that kicked in the teeth.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
is that why the teeth are piling up under my pillow?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 12, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude has written 26 posts and been around for a year.
s/he isn’t new, s/he should know better.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
Do you realize how arrogant you continue to sound? It’s shocking, really….
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
do you realize that I really don't care?
PL78 has written some good stuff in his/her time here but quite frankly its often riddled with errors and holes.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course....
Clearly you don’t care. Again, that fact further reinforces my point. It’s a shame, really. Used to be a good site. That attitude is inexcusable.
“I know we’re being arrogant and rude to a guy trying to share his passion. Fuck him if he doesn’t follow our standards (which we lapse in at times as well!)”.
Yeah. Fun place.
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
please point to examples of when my fanposts are riddled with errors
cuz they aren’t.
If the attitude is inexcuseable please excuse yourself from bitching at me unless you have substantive arguments to make.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't dare....
It is intellectually dishonest of you to even imply I said your posts are “riddled with errors”. You’ve made a mistake before, I’m sure. Unless you’re perfect. In which case I bow, humbly, and admit all my worngdoings unto thee. Really though, there’s no excuse to be arrogant pricks about it. None. I get the point about facts. It’s unfortunate you don’t get the idea of a “community”.
...that's just one man's opinion, fella name 'a Smitty, first name Word...
by PosterNutbag44 on Jul 11, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
the community if all thats is posted shit thats riddled with errors
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
*community suffers
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
Im pretty sure the official score keeper will change it to a hit.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly, if its "riddled" with errors theres ways of going about correcting it.
If grover had merely said “Ellis is a type B already” I would have said “whoops my bad” and maybe even edited it to reflect it.
The rest of my supposed “errors” come not from misreading facts, but from differences in opinion. This is, and please correct me if I’m wrong, a community blog where people are encouraged to voice their opinions and viewpoints regarding the A’s. Sometimes there’s a few older posters here who enforce some kind of unwritten laws that state that everyone must post like a professional journalist, to which I am not. I do what I can when a get a minute to write or think about something, and I’m a a point in life where I can spout off knowledge at the drop of a hat most of the time thats about 85% right in logic and in facts. Im not perfect, but that’s where everyone else can come in and clean up and call me out on errors in logic and facts.
If grover wants to write a better fanpost and link it in here, he can be my guest. If grover wants to post hateful messages trying to belittle my intelligence, he can GTFO. Im not one with a big ego or anything, I will respect anyone’s opinion as long as they have a stream of logic behind it. I might not agree, but I wont argue it. If you dont explain your logic though, dont bother talking to me, its worthless idle chatter.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
by PL78 on Jul 11, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm still waiting for your reply to my critiques
I want to know how you justify the praise for Ellis’ defense.
I want to know exactly what you were trying to say when you were talking about Ellis and FA.
I want to know what you want to do with Ellis!
I will respect anyone’s opinion as long as they have a stream of logic behind it. I might not agree, but I wont argue it. If you dont explain your logic though, dont bother talking to me, its worthless idle chatter.
Amen. You just decribed your original post.
The monster at the end of this blog.
um
please point to examples of when my fanposts are riddled with errors
cuz they aren’t.
Did you mean to exclude spelling and grammatical errors?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
No those are "errors" that I don't give a fuck about.
If you don’t like them don’t read my shit they are going to be there. They have nothing to do with the validity of my points.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Relax, dude.
Just having a little fun. You’re the one who brought it up with that comment.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses. One should be more charitable toward the weaknesses of others.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Its not my fault the English language is stupid
The first time you see me correct a spelling or grammatical error Ill jump of a bridge.
It may make my argument less persuasive if its hard to read but they have no bearing on my argument. PL78’s argument is his weakness.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 12, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I blame attitudes like yours for the decline of AN
You expect others to help out folks who continually make factual errors. Step up and follow what you preach before acting all high and mighty with those of us who actually put in time and effort on this site. Where are your fanposts to help create discussion? Where are your comments that kindly point out the repeated mistakes PL78 makes?
Where is your participation?
As much as I didn’t like the guy PaulThomas proved that the single greatest way to affect the way AN discusses/views/thinks about baseball is by being heavily involved in the threads. And you, with your 144 ID number and your 338 comments as of 6:16 PM have utterly failed to do that. So the first person you should be blaming for how much AN is a place you don’t like to visit more than once a month is yourself.
Come to terms with that and then you can come after me.
The monster at the end of this blog.
So yeah, this is all well and good
But I still don’t know what to do with Mark Ellis
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
by hero66 on Jul 12, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he agrees with grover
So we should kick him off the site.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Cant argue with the bald guy
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
wait, nm's bald?!
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 14, 2010 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that...
Mark Ellis should be an Oakland Athletic for the rest of his career. It’s nice to have some continuity and player loyalty.
I still favor Ken Korach's idea of giving Ellis a 50-year deal.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jul 10, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not at the expense of
possibly outbidding another team for a quality FA.
by sf drift king on Jul 11, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Loyalty says a lot abot a team/player...
That said, there isn’t any loyalty in baseball. The last 10-15 years is proof of that. Beane does show loyalty still unlike most teams, but he shows it to the wrong guys (Jack Cust). Hell, theres no loyalty in proffesional sports period, Douchebag James is just another example… So i guess the real question is…Is Mark Ellis the right or wrong guy to show loyalty to?
by Po' Boy on Jul 10, 2010 2:52 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Jack Cust is your example for Beane's irrational loyalty?
You just told us more about yourself than Beane.
If anyone, Geren
is the one to which BB has been irrationally loyal.
Chavez as well.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Wasn't Custy DFA'd
or did I dream that?
by sf drift king on Jul 11, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Tough decision IMO
I really think Beane could get a pretty good prospect for Ellis….but then again, Ellis is a pretty damn valuable player when healthy. That being said, I absolutely love Eric Sogard. I haven’t seen him personally, but he apparently has a very patient approach; in fact, he kind of reminds me of Pennington at the plate. Granted, his defense apparently needs some work, but his patience is pretty outstanding (as evidenced by his 40:35 BB:K ration). A 1-2-3-4 of Pennington-Sogard-Barton-Cust might not have power, but boy it would draw a shit-load of walks and raise the pitch count like crazy.
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
Sogard is behind Cardenas and Weeks, IMO
He’s not very good. He can draw walks, thats literally his only skill. Not worth enduring bad defense and no power (on a team that needs it).
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Not to nitpick, but you've nearly described Adrian Cardenas
Just replace “he can draw walks” with “he can hit for average.”
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Except that Cardenas can do both
And he did hit 41 doubles last year.
and he’s 22
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Granted
Doubles in the minors are nice, and sometimes they translate into homers later on. Sometimes they don’t. Either way, many (I refuse to say “most” because I haven’t read all of the material out there) talent evaluators knock Cardenas for his lack of power.
A non-exhaustive survey:
Sickels calls him a “Todd Walker type.” That’s not a bad thing, but it’s not Jeff Kent.
Baseball Prospectus‘s appraisal of Cardenas before this season (and after his 41-double season) includes phrases like, “[his] bat has little in it except a good batting average,” and “[he] slices a good number of doubles, but has little over-the-fence power,” leading to a conclusion that "he’s not going to make a big impact … unless he finds more in the way of secondary skills."
I’m hoping for the best, too, but it’s not like I pulled that conclusion out of my ass.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
Sogard might not have the upside of Weeks or Cardenas
But he is most certainly ahead of those two in terms of ETA
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
He's also 2 years older. When Sogard was Cardenas' age, he was in A ball
Weeks would be ahead of Sogard, but he can’t stay healthy. He’s certainly a much better player.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 11, 2010 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Neither Cardenas or Weeks will start 2011 in the MLB
That’s basically what we are discussing here
Frank Cohen
TeamTICKERmlb.com
Your Effortless Baseball Connection
I doubt Sogard will either, cause he's not likely to be much better than crap.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Your list is incomplete.
I’m not sure why you omitted the choice of keeping Ellis for the year but not picking up the option next year. I’m not saying that’s necessarily my vote, but it’s a logical possibility that is worthy of consideration.
Even if your intention is to have him next year, if it’s true that the market rate has dropped, it would still make sense to decline the option, let him go out and solicit offers from other teams, expecting to then beat those offers and sign him for ~$5MM or so.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Im pretty sure Beane will not let him go for nothing.
Not his style in the slightest.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
But it's not "letting him go"
It’s keeping him for his full contract.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It pains me to say it, but I think you trade him.
Package him with Sheets and some prospect with moderate upside and dangle it out there. See what happens.
It saddens me to even say this, in light of the fact that no one on the current roster embodies A’s baseball more than Ellis, but he’s on the decline and I have at least some faith that we can land a replacement via the FA market (though we may have to overpay).
Trade Sweeney too.
Texas Might Want Sweeney
if only so he couldn’t rob them again…
did you see Sweeney cringing in pain after scoring the other day?
His knee problem doesn’t seem like it’s going to get any better, and it’s going to kill his value if it restricts his range. I don’t like the idea of trading young players, but I think if the A’s are offered anything of value for him they should take it.
I'm starting to feel this same way
I don’t see Sweeney having a particularly long career because of his knees.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 13, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Jack Cust was a free agent in the offseason
Beane brought him back…couldve got a better dh but nope, Jack is currently in the line-up most days…so how is he not loyal to Jack Cust?
by Po' Boy on Jul 10, 2010 6:51 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
he was the best DH option on the team and still sent him down.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 10, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
He's still the best hitter on the team
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 10, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
And that's why we're a terrible offensive baseball team.
I wouldn’t say that the A’s have been loyal to him, though. The A’s have been fortunate (well sort of, see subject line of this post) that nobody else wants him.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Ya, the main reason we're terrible is that Sweeney and Davis have been terrible and
Crisp has hardly played. A Cust-quality hitter in LF and RF — i.e. decent but not All-Star worthy — would add a couple of wins just in the second half.
Replace Sweeney and Davis with All-Stars using the money that now goes to Chavez, Ellis, Sheets, Duchscherer, et. al. and you’ve got a contender. You’ve also got trade chips in Carter, Taylor, Suzuki and even Cahill/Anderson/Gio. Signing Carl Crawford would be a massive upgrade that only costs money (and a draft pick). The second guy is trickier.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
For one, Cust is a good hitter.
Good enough to serve as our DH most days. The main point however, was that Eric Chavez is a far better case study in the pitfalls of Beane’s loyalty.
He was only a free agent because the A's, in effect, released him.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 11, 2010 7:16 AM PDT up reply actions
He shouldnt have been on the team
to start the season….and no, i dont think hes the best DH on the roster…his power has dissapeared and there are other options that would get same or better production.
by Po' Boy on Jul 10, 2010 8:10 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
The only guy who has the same or better production is Coco Crisp.
And he’s been in, like, three games.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
PROVE IT!
Anytime one of these posts is made, if no effort to prove it is made there should be a permanent ban.
So this is what needs to be proven or I will forever ignore anything you say (which won’t affect you, of course, but it’ll keep me from murdering people):
1. i dont think hes the best DH on the roster – Who is better? Provide actual evidence for this claim.
2. his power has dissapeared – Prove that this is true not just with Cust in a vacuum, but in relation to the team (since nobody is arguing that he should be kept over a superstar on another team, but you must compare him to the options they have).
3. options that would get same or better production – Who are these options? And, by the way, if they’re already on the major league roster how come Cust has been the best non-Crisp hitter on the team this year?
For what it’s worth, I can refute your entire argument in less than 5 minutes (except that his power has disappeared, because you are correct to say he’s not had the same power this year, but that’s actually fairly irrelevant): Jack Cust has been the best offensive player on the team this year. He has a 120 OPS+, .363 wOBA, and if you don’t like advanced stats: his .395 OBP is 18 points higher than anybody else and only Rosales has a higher slugging percentage (by 9 points). I did eliminate Crisp from this discussion, since he hasn’t played in many games yet. So, if you’d like, you can add him and Cust would be 2nd in OPS+, wOBA, still 1st in OBP, and 3rd in slugging.
Saying things that are simply entirely untrue makes you look really, really bad. If you think the A’s should’ve signed Vlad in the offseason, well, the stats suggest he wouldn’t have been much better than Cust, and he’s making about 3 times as much. Proof? Away from Texas, Vlad is hitting .285/.338/.504. Certainly not awful by any means, but only marginally better than Cust (who plays half his games in Oakland). And if you look at each player’s Away stats only this year, Cust has been BETTER.
One last thing, for all the STRICKOUTS people: Cust is striking out less. He’s hitting for a higher average. He’s not just HR or nothing. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED. So stop being a fucking hypocrite and just admit that no matter what he does you’ll never like him. Because it’s fucking obnoxious that you complain about him being K/BB/HR, then when he starts hitting for average, cuts down on Ks, and doesn’t hit for as much power (pretty much what everyone who knows about this stuff said would happen) you complain about him…not hitting homers?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 11, 2010 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
You know... if I ran an A's blog...
A nasty comment like that would be applauded!
The monster at the end of this blog.
There were better options in free agency over the winter.
Not way better options, but better. Vlad is/was a better option. Yes, he would have cost more, but the A’s have more than enough money to spend on him. The split stats are interesting, but they’re also speculative. We can’t assume that they’d represent what Vlad would have done in Oakland in a linear way. in 175 career PAs at the Coliseum, he has a 1.041 OPS.
All that said, I generally agree that the poster to which you responded didn’t offer anything to back up his claim.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Vlad was also an injury risk and someone who preferred Texas probably. I'm not sure he would have been available
and if he were injured here, the move wouldn’t have been applauded.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
how do you know
when we didn’t bother to bid?
by sf drift king on Jul 11, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
We don't
Just like we don’t know how he would have performed in Oakland.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
What we do know is that he has a .919 OPS and 20 HRs
Apparently that’s just marginally better than an .831 OPS with 4 HRs.
We also know that Custy has an unmaintainable .436 BABIP which should be factored in if your going as far as ballpark adjustment to prove Vlad’s perceived lack of value.
I was more referring to the cooler effect our medical staff has on roughly everybody
Except Cust, apparently.
Oh, crap. I think I just jinxed him.
"I've made a huge little mistake." - G.O.B.
If I could stand on the internet and applaud this post I would
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 11, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Bravo!
"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy."
-Charles Manson
by kaweahkaweah on Jul 12, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I rec'd this
But please don’t use home/road splits. They don’t prove what you want to prove.
Instead use park-adjusted full-season stats.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
You're absolutely right, though I really don't trust the StatCorner adjustment of wOBA (because I don't think it factors in splits nearly enough)
But Vlad is at .384, Cust at .380. Cust is still a better value, which I’m pretty sure you’d agree with.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jul 13, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd go with Rosales at 2B in 2011 and spend the $6M toward a real outfielder.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
I'd prefer better defense for a full-time 2Bman
but if we could retain Rosales in the “Marco Scutaro” super-utility role for the next 5 years, I would be quite pleased
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
That's fine, but Ellis's defense seems to have slipped -- especially his range.
If you want to get another SS and move Pennington to 2B that’s fine with me, but then you need another SS.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Until the A's are assured of a legit replacement
The decision is to exercise the option
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
If this team competes next year
Then Rosales is the only possible replacement from this list that would be better than replacement level next year…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jul 11, 2010 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions
How Bout
Sogard, he seems to be having a nice season in AA.
Go A's!!!
Which should get him a promotion to AAA not Oakland
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Not sure what to do with Ellis.
He (or anyone else, for that matter) shouldn’t be traded just for the sake of trading him. It’s all about whether or not it would yield a worthwhile return. I am skeptical it would, so I think we’re stuck with a declining 2B for one more year, in the absence of better options. You could plug Rosales in there and get the same or better production, I think, but you also lose the versatility he provides.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Ya but that's a problem of replacing Rosales for something less than $6M which should be possible
If not Tolleson, there’s Weeks and even guys like Felipe Lopez floating around.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Sogard is in AA???
He’s been in AAA all season….
As for the whole Cust thing, my point was he shouldnt have been on the roster to start the season. There were much better options tha were in the same range, less and mre affordable.
Since he is on the team, I think Rosales and Ellis should trade off between 2B and DH. Compare the numbers and Roseys amount of AB’s, and I think the A’s would get similar better production that they recieve from Cust. Im much more for the plug rosales in at a position, give everyday player day off but DH him to keep the best bats in the lineup….a revolving Designated Hitter.
Neither Ellis nor Rosales is as good as Cust at DH. If you want to make Rosales the everyday
RF and send Sweeney to the bench I’m OK with that.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jul 11, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
i think you trade him
there are better ways for the a’s to spend the $ in the offseason, and several have contenders with a need at 2b.
id really like to see the a’s go after dan uggla in the offseason. he’ll be very expensive (~10M), and i cant see the marlins able to pay that. they appear to be a good match for a trade centered around donaldson too. plus the a’s have rosales, so if they cant land uggla, they can stick rosales at 2b and put the $ into getting an OF.
He's shown he can play multiple positions
at a decent level. To shuffle players like sweeney, crisp, jackson, davis, ellis, and pennington at DH would be my preference. Give Jackson a day off, plug rosey in left and let him Dh. Same for sweeney and everyone else mentioned above. This provides players like Rajai more playing time thus should make them more consistent since they’ll play everyday. I don’t think there is 1 specific player that outplays Jack at the plate, but the shuffling DH IMO would make the team better as a whole by providing our players more chances to be successful on a daily basis. Also, speed and solid D was the plan for this year and Cust being in the lineup contradicts that since he does niether, my suggestion would offer more of both. Cust is not a HORRIBLE player so if thats what you thing im saying theres been a mis underdstanding. But he is not the same player from 2 yrs ago n shouldve been passed up in free agency this offseason, that was my original point when discussing loyalty to Jack.
by Po' Boy on Jul 11, 2010 11:31 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I don't know of any team that successfully platoons the DH position between a bunch of non-DH players.
DH is a specialty position all its own.
by A's Believer on Jul 12, 2010 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions
not to mention...
Power is irrelevant at the DH position? really? take a look at the other DH’s of the AL and then go poop in your hand…the DH position works best for guys who have the skill set Cust had a couple years ago, not the skillset he has right now. If he could play even fairly decent defense then he could play a corner outfield spot on this years team and be a better option than davis, but gloves and Jack Cust dont go together unless theyre batting gloves. There is a reason EVERY other team passed up on him in the offseason. Save the 5 mill they gave to crisp and we for sure couldve got a better DH, even with overpaying for them.
by Po' Boy on Jul 11, 2010 11:47 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Learn to use the reply button, please.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 11, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Cust is getting on base 40% of the time.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
No, he’s getting on base only 39.8 percent of the time.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 11, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Away splits for DHs
In ballpark-neutral stats, Cust this year is the top DH among all teams in on-base percentage, second in batting average, second in OPS, and his power is about average. His slugging on the road is better than the slugging of Carlos Guillen, Jason Kubel, Hideki Matsui, Luke Scott, Johnny Damon, Jorge Posada, Willy Aybar, Travis Hafner, and Adam Lind on the road. SSS, admittedly.
This is as of 7/6 when I did gathered these numbers (Cust hasn’t played away since then but some of the others have and those numbers aren’t included).
Jim Thome (Twins) .266/.390/.578 (.968)
Jack Cust (A’s) .319/.434/.449 (.883)
David Ortiz: (Red Sox) .229/.352/.505 (.857)
Mike Sweeney (Mariners) .293/.333/.512 (.846)
Vlad Guerrero (Rangers) .285/.338/.504 (.842)
Carlos Guillen (Tigers) .322/.392/.414 (.806)
Jose Guillen (Royals) .295/.351/.451 (.802)
Jason Kubel (Twins) .252/.341/.403 (.744)
Hideki Matsui (Angels) .265/.331/.397 (.728)
Luke Scott (Orioles) .241/.311/.407 (.718)
Johnny Damon (Tigers) .259/.367/.348 (.715)
Jorge Posada (Yankees) .198/.324/.384 (.708)
Willy Aybar (Rays. .236/.282/.375 (.657)
Travis Hafner (Indians) .189/.298/.279 (.577)
Adam Lind (Blue Jays) .179/.249/.327 (.575)
by A's Believer on Jul 12, 2010 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Away splits are not ballpark neutral stats.
They’re away splits. Ballpark factors are not at all the only reason why players perform differently at home or on the road.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
by jeepers on Jul 12, 2010 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
This a thousand times this.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 12, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
God I want Cust to end the year OPSing over 900
I think he might get there too, he seems to have figured out the magic again.
Eff it, I want him signed to DH next year too. Carter will not be better than Cust at DH.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
that's a stratospheric goal
considering that there are only three (3) designated hitters OPSing over .900 (home and away), and all three have half their PAs in home parks much more hitter-friendly than the Mausoleum. That’s Ortiz, Thome, and Guerrero. Every other DH is below .900.
It’s the year of the pitcher. 10 out of the 17 DH’s with >150 PAs have an OPS of less than .800. Cust is #6 out of 17 at .831.
I suspect Cust’s year-end line (total stats, not just away splits) will be something like .280/.390/.440 - still #1 among DHs in OBP, around #3 in BA and #5 in OPS, and in the middle of the pack in slugging. He will hit far more RBIs and score more runs in the second half than the first as long as he plays every day. He probably won’t hit all the jacks people yearning for the PED days of yore keep demanding that he hit, but he will nevertheless remain among the top 3 hitters on the A’s and in the top third of league designated hitters in OPS, woBA, and similar summary statistics. And I’m betting he’ll rank among the top 3 designated hitters adjusted for ballpark if we can figure out and agree on how to do that. :-)
by A's Believer on Jul 12, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
He's a really good hitter
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
my bad...
mobile commenting sucks it wont let me reply
by Po' Boy on Jul 11, 2010 1:08 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
we couldn't make Don's phone do it last week.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets, except when their nipples have magical powers. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 14, 2010 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions
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