Buy or Sell? A's Likely to Stand Pat, as Deadline Nears
by 67MARQUEZ on Jul 1, 2010 9:00 AM PDT
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PrintWhat was shaping up as a potentially exciting July in these parts has been dulled by the home team's recent slide, leaving Athletics Nation to entertain itself.
Again.
About two months ago, many A's fans were circling the dates of July 5-7 in anticipation of Braden-Rodriguez II, with the former's Perfect Game on May 9 turning things up a notch on the salivation scale.
But then Dallas slumped- he's still winless since his date with immortality; life can be cruel that way- and is now hoping he won't have to miss another start due to tightness in his left elbow. Even if he is able to pitch- he is slotted for Saturday in Cleveland- he will almost assuredly miss the Yankees' series. Braden, being the warrior that he is, remains optimistic, and says the upcoming Break should keep him off the dreaded disabled list:
"Fortunately, the All-Star break coming up [is] a blessing in disguise [because] our day off just before the All-Star break [on July 8], that allows us some rotational comfort," Braden said. "The All-Star Game being an additional four days, that's a lot of rest if manipulated correctly ... that I could have without being forced on the DL."
Speaking of the ASG, it's looking like for the sixth straight season that only one "A" will make the trip. Not since Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder in 2004 has Oakland sent multiple players to the Mid-Summer Classic. The pitchers were subsequently traded at the end of the season.
Billy Beane won't likely be making that sort of splash come the deadline on July 31, mainly because, as FanGraphs so eloquently states, "the A's lack a plethora of sought-after assets." But that doesn't mean we should sleep on Beane, because he has been known to surprise us. Even if the man himself says otherwise:
"We've got the youngest team in the league, and we're not going to be trading our young players," Beane said. "I wouldn't anticipate us being overly active because the team's so young, and we have no interest in handing off any of those guys."
FanGraphs' Matthew Carruth echoes Nico's sentiment that "the Athletics have an unholy amount of payroll space freed up in the future", even after the expected wage increases:
Many of their players are arbitration eligible and therefore will see some raises but it's difficult to see that adding more than $20 million to the books which still leaves Oakland with something in the vicinity of $25 million to spend in this coming offseason assuming the same budget room.
There's concern among Athletic Nation's hierarchy that the A's have fallen into some sort of baseball purgatory, and can't get up. Sez Blez:
I've always said the worst thing a team can be is mediocre.
Because if it never truly bottoms out, you never get a chance to get those top round draft picks that are almost always the sure things. Ask the Rays about having a lot of high draft picks. Ask the Nationals.
It's, in some ways, why I didn't really want to see the team try and be competitive on the field last year in signing some vets and getting Holliday, etc. I would've rather just gone with kids and let the team bottom out. I know it's not in Billy's nature and I'm sure Lew Wolff doesn't want that, but let's face it, there's hardly anyone coming to the Coliseum any way.
Suffer through a couple of really bad Pirates-like years and then hopefully your draft can help and when you need it, then you bring in the Sheets and Hollidays of the world to round out the younger team.
And this from Nico, in last night's recap:
A .500 team that isn't good enough to contend or bad enough to draft well just went out and got another "ok" player (Conor Jackson) that blocks the addition of a "good" player in LF, making itself even more "really mediocre but not terrible" for now and for next year.
Ah, but there is reason to give hope, sort of:
The A's were never built to run away in 2010, but rather to take a stab at a winnable division but bide their time for the future. They are going to miss the brass ring, but the future still looks intact.
Or does it? There seems to be an unsettling dependency on Michael Taylor and Chris Carter to save the day, at least from a power standpoint. Beane admits as much, even as Taylor and Carter struggle in the minors- "There's really no choice"- so the A's, as currently built, will continue to scratch-and-claw for their runs. Or hope the opposition self-destructs every four games or so.
In the meantime, it's business as usual, which is part wait-and-see, and part sniffing around:
"I think our biggest thing is being patient with some of these young guys and also waiting for some of the guys in the Minor Leagues," Beane said. "I don't think we're going to go out there and add payroll, necessarily. We're not going to add a player for short-term satisfaction. That would require giving up some young talent. When we acquired Conor [Jackson], we had it in mind that he, himself, is still very young at age 28. So I don't see us adding short-term help.
"In this job, you're always looking for opportunities," he said. "If you're not buyers and sellers at all times, you're probably not doing your job. You're always speaking to other GMs. You're always going to have conversations at certain times of the year. But it's just too early to make any evaluations when we don't know where we're going to be in a month."
And so it goes.
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They should call the Phillies
and see what can we get for Ellis, and either play Rosales at second or call up Cardenas.
They emptied the cubbard over a couple of years, and then got some of the M's prospects in return for Lee
Here’s a very detailed, recent list of the Phillies’ top prospects. It’s only one guy’s opinion, but even if others would disagree about whether so-and-so is #7 or #12, it’s probably a pretty comprehensive look that the talent they have in the system.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
If the D'Backs trade Haren, they are most certainly going to ask for Brown.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't see the Phillies giving up nearly enough to get Haren
unless someone took Josh Byrnes out for drinks immediately before.
Even their three best prospects, Brown, Trevor May, and whoever else isn’t going to be enough. Unless they give up Happ in addition, but that really screws up their payroll flexibility with Ryan Howard’s albatross contract.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
But, I can see them giving up Dom Brown to get Lee
which would be horrible, but yeah.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Billy has something up his sleeve. I don't think he's given up.
He may make it seem like this year is the goal, but I know he’s thinking a couple years ahead.
He might have something up his sleeve but it can only be minor.
The A’s don’t have anything to trade, except Carter – and who knows what he’s worth and it would be dumb to trade him anyway. Sheets may be worth something, but it seems like there are going to be plenty of pitchers on the trading block this month, which diminishes his value.
Ellis would get a very mediocre prospect if any at all. Suzuki has good value but the A’s don’t have anyone ready to catch everyday and… c’mon… we can’t trade our best position player away.
My question is: how many more years are we going to say that we’re really going to contend in a few more years? It’s sickening. The ENTIRE future of the organization is in the hands of Carter and Taylor who aren’t exactly banging down the MLB doors. If they aren’t middle-of-the-lineup hitters for many years, the A’s will fail to move away from mediocrity. They’ll always be the team with good pitching and no hitting.
So really… all Beane can do is hope and pray that Carter and Taylor pan out. Because if neither of them do, he could very well be out of a job.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 1, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I would disagree
with the statement that the A’s “ENTIRE future” depends on Carter and Taylor. They clearly are a huge part of the offensive part of the club, and it will be tough if they don’t work out, but the A’s have built an enviable stable of young, talented starting pitchers, and I think that is something to build around. Considering so many people enjoy saying Beane only succeeded because of the Big Three, maybe this is an opportunity for him to do it again.
Our offensive future is
And given the state of the offense, it is very worrisome of either of them don’t pan out.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
There were two "big 3s"
Chavez, Tejada, and Giambi.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Exactly
I didn’t go into why I think the people that say it was “just” the Big 3 are wrong, but the fact that the A’s had a powerful offense in the early Aughties was why they were so dominant. Oakland needs both parts. So I am worried that the two most highly-touted position players in the minors are not tearing it up, and I don’t think the A’s are a WS contender without a better offense. However, the situation is less dire than if we did not have such an awesome group of young pitchers.
Dallas Braden is a serious drain on this team right now.
Why isn’t he on the DL? How much longer is he going to hog a roster spot to dink around with a sore freakin’ elbow. It’s not an ankle… or a thumb… or a blister. He has a tight freakin’ elbow!!! Anderson had a tight elbow and they shut him down for a month.
agreed
why bother trying to get one more start in before the AS break? Just put him on the DL and bring up someone else for a couple weeks.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
This one seems pretty obvious
Why would you have Braden make that one more start before he can freely throw a curve?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why does the management continually test our patience like this?
They never used to be this way, they would do something and then announce the stream of logic behind it, they dont do that anymore. All I want is the reason why, they could say almost anything, but they dont. In this specific case, it has to be because of the trade deadline and Billy thinking that not announcing injuries will maximize trade value.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
But do you really think the league has no idea Braden has a bad elbow?
Not that they could hide an injury anyway when making a trade.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
For example, what if we were trying to get another pitcher?
If the other team knew exactly how bad Braden’s injury was, they might try to take us for more, thinking that we’re more desperate.
I would think they would try to take us for what they could,
no matter how healthy we were or weren’t. I mean, in trade talks one can always imagine a greater need is being hidden and act accordingly — and probably often be right.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Change
It wouldn’t surprise me if Beane moved Coco Crisp. He’s been playing like gangbusters since he came back, and an outfield of Jackson, Davis and Sweeney, with Gross as back-up would be acceptable. The A’s could use a young quality reliever in the ‘pen (in a sense, trading Crisp for Jackson; and Demel for ????) and perhaps a young starter as well. The other possibility could be trading Crisp for an older hitter with power, and then DFA’ing Jack Cust. Cust is on the A’s for his power potential, but he seems to have turned into a singles hitter.
If nothing else, Bowers should be replaced soon, and I would LOVE to see Tyson Ross back in the minors. Geren makes terrible choices most of the time but still, it would be nice if he had more to work with in the bullpen.
I really don't understand this whole thing about Cust.
Do people not realize he’s still got a .380 OBP? He’s one of TWO players on the team (not including Crisp’s 6 games) with an OBP above .380.
Honestly, an outfield of Jackson, Davis and Sweeney pretty much sucks. It seems kind of ironic to complain about Cust’s lack of power and then propose a starting outfield that’s got a total of 4 home runs between them, doesn’t it?
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I wouldn't mind having some kind of power batting behind/before Cust.
by LoneStranger on Jul 1, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Like Pat Burrell?
“Billy, you can’t stand pat!”
“I can’t? OK, then we won’t sign him!”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Except...
Jackson, Davis, Sweeney all provide some defensive ability, certainly more than Cust.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Cust hasn't really been playing the field anyway.
Which is a good thing, no doubt.
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Finding a power bat who can't play the field is easier than finding a power bat who can
Cust has a .380 OBP but if there’s nobody to drive him in, he’s as dead on the basepaths as the three outfielders and Barton. If you look around the A’s and want to find a single position that’s easiest to improve, it’s the DH.
But isn't that the other guys' fault, then? Not Cust's?
If he’s not getting driven in, it’s not exactly an argument against him.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
It's not Cust's "fault"
But SOMEONE has to drive in runs. Someone has to have power. If not the DH spot, then where? There’s nothing available out there except perhaps someone with power who can’t play the field. Besides, Geren clearly doesn’t like to play the guy, and the only thing worse than a DH who can’t drive in runs is a DH who’s sitting on the bench, not playing.
Seems clear to me that
1. Cust should be on the team, playing every day.
2. He should be batting high up in the order as a “get on base” guy.
As mikev says, he and Barton are the only players in the organization who can get on base more than 35% of the time in the big leagues, and they do it at a gaudy .380 clip.
Like it or not, Cust isn’t going to drive in a lot of runs right now because he isn’t slugging. But he can set the table at a level that is outstanding and at least give others (Kouz, Suzuki, Sweeney) more chances to bat with runners on.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No disagreement
If Cust is on the team, he should be batting high in the order as a get-on-base guy.
My point wasn’t that there’s anything wrong with Cust playing…it’s that the only place to find power around the league at this point would be at DH, which makes Cust odd man out.
Or you sacrifice a little defense
at a position where it’s tolerable to do so. Putting Juan Rivera in LF, for example, alongside Crisp and Sweeney, with Cust at DH, works. It’s what the Angels do and it can work great. Same with Manny Ramirez, Raul Ibañez, Andre Ethier — you can give up defense if:
1. the defense is bad but not horrible
2. the defense around it is really good
3. you get enough slugging in exchange
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And, the A's will have two elite defenders running the OF
as long as Sweeney and Davis are starting outfielders.
I see Raul as a serious possibility, with the Phillies clearly payroll strapped, with Dom Brown in the wings, and all the middle infield injuries and SP issues.
And, Ruben Amaro doesn’t really have the reputation as smart.
PS: another interesting salary dump = Joe Blanton
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
The "other guy's fault" argument
…is the one that has been used to defend Jack Cust for the past couple of years. But I’m not blaming him. This isn’t about blame.
The idea instead is to find more power. The only way to find it, at this point, is to look for a salary dump, and the easiest salary dump to find will be someone with power who can’t play the field, which leaves Cust as odd man out.
OK, improve it then.
Lay out your plan for improving the DH spot, and please be more specific than “trade Crisp for an older hitter with power” since it’s such an easy position to improve.
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Well, no
I was talking about trading Crisp for a couple of pitchers. Maybe picking up a salary dump that wouldn’t cost too much.
Travis Hafner. Paul Konerko. Alex Rios. Alfonso Soriano. Derrek Lee. Dan Uggla.
Take a chance on Carlos Delgado when he’s ready.
A search around both leagues can find a few players who might be available
Obviously, many are not, and for some, the price is too high. But hell, Raul Ibanez has three times as many homers as Jack Cust and I’m sure the Mets would trade him in a snap for Coco Crisp. I’m not saying that would be an ideal situation because Ibanez isn’t much of a power hitter at this stage. But Cust has shown pretty much NO power in a power position. Neither has Sweeney nor Barton. But the A’s have a plethora of slick-fielding outfielders, and you don’t want to trade Barton, right?
Yeah.
But hell, Raul Ibanez has three times as many homers as Jack Cust and I’m sure the Mets would trade him in a snap for Coco Crisp.
You mean the Phillies, right?
A salary dump of Raul makes a good bit of sense for the A’s, since he’s shown that he can hit in a pitcher’s park, and we have a DH spot.
But, I also think that if the A’s are willing to eat some of Crisp’s salary, he’ll have positive trade value at either the deadline or in waiver deals.
But, obligatory, since we’re talking about Raul Ibanez:
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Not in gif form, but its here.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2004/tyib/tyib_awards_blooper.jsp
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
=(
didn’t get to test it out before posting—-yay weak internets
my bad.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
So true.
I’ve been searching for that video or a GIF of it for at least two years, but no one seems to have it.
by MrMoneyBaller on Jul 1, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
One of the best things about AN
is that the mere, even slight mention Ibanez yields that gif.
lol every time!!!
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Oh, I must have misread this
The other possibility could be trading Crisp for an older hitter with power, and then DFA’ing Jack Cust.
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I also wrote
“The A’s could use a young quality reliever in the ‘pen (in a sense, trading Crisp for Jackson; and Demel for ????) and perhaps a young starter as well.”
But either would work.
Why are you in love with a singles hitting DH who can’t play the field and who Geren won’t play anyway? You’d rather stand pat, not have any more power on the club, just so you can snuggle with Jack Cust late at night? What the hell is wrong with you people? Jack Cust in 2010 is NOT Jack Cust in 2009.
I think what mikev is saying
(and if not it’s what I’m saying) is that while the A’s would rather Cust be Jack Cust than Jose Vidro, if you just look at him as a “.380 OBP/.420 SLG” guy — and don’t look at what you thought or hoped he would be — that’s still an .800 OPS guy who gets on base 38% of the time and that’s the best the A’s have to DH right now.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He better play, then
I totally don’t get the current lineup ideas: oh Cust isn’t hitting for power/other guys are better than him against this pitcher. I know! Let’s sit him!
Yeah, if he is ever to get on a “hot streak” (I know, I know) he needs to play. Every day. At worst, he OBPs .380. At best, he increases his SLG. No lose, here.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Again, no disagreement
But that’s not what mikev appeared to be arguing.
He seemed to be arguing the ancient argument about the hidden value of Jack Cust, as if I was talking about releasing him or trading him simply for the sake of trading him. What I was talking about was trying to find more power, and the only place where you can find a salary dump, i.e. Paul Konerko or Travis Hafner, would be at DH.
With Crisp in the line-up, I don’t see what Conor Jackson adds to the A’s that they already don’t have. I can see having Davis, Sweeney and Crisp in the outfield and Jackson as DH for the slight increase on power potential at the expense of on-base percentage, but that’s neither here nor there. The idea of playing Gross at DH when you’ve got Cust languishing on the base (even the Cust of 2010) is insane.
You're basically advocating getting rid of Cust because the other guys suck
You don’t see how that sounds kind of senseless?
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No I think he's advocating getting rid of Cust
because he plays a position where you need slugging and where you might be able to get slugging. But until that affordable slugging DH becomes available to the A’s, I think it’s an argument in theory, not practice.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, thanks
I don’t think Beane is going to do anything anywhere…but if he was, I think DH is where he’d have to look.
You're basically saying keep Cust
Even if the only way to improve the team is to replace him with someone who has some kind of a power stroke. (I mean, even if you assume Geren will play the guy).
You don’t see how that sounds kind of senseless.
Why would you replace Cust
until you had that someone?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm not advocating that.
I’m not advocating replacing Cust with anyone as DH - except if you want to make a case for Conor Jackson in order to have a stronger outfield and a tad more power at DH, though that argument is very iffy - unless there’s a trade.
You don't think there's any way to improve the team
aside from replacing the guy with the .380 OBP?
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Also....
If you have a manager who refuses to play the guy, why should he be on the team at all? I mean, I know a perfect way to improve the team without changing a single player, but that’s beating a dead horse.
Not completely
Again, if Geren is refusing to play Jack Cust, then all the arguments about his .380 OBP are moot.
Then what's the point of getting better players
since they won’t play anyway?
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yeah
would be nice to put Cust in the starting lineup every day, and hit him 2 or 3.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I'd start the lineup
Crisp
Barton
Cust
and figure that at worst your bleah 4-5-6 hitters will have a lot of RBI chances — if you can’t have quality, go for quantity — and that at best Cust starts to hit a few HRs and they come with someone on base.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
and between the projected 4, 5, 6
Suzuki, Kouzmanoff and Sweeney, only one can ground into a DP in any given inning.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Isn't that true no matter what?
I mean, there’s only three outs in an inning, right?
Not even Geren can create a lineup so bad that it’s at risk of two DPs in the same inning.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
they changed the rule this year
you can “bank” superfluous outs for use later in the game.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
If the problem is that Geren won't play Cust,
the answer is something other than Fire Cust Now.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Not sure, but then again I'm not the one demanding something be done, either.
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I never said I was satisfied with the way the team is playing.
I’m also not wanting to give up anything to go and acquire a marginal upgrade or an old guy who’s going to suck by the time the team is actually in contention 2 years from now.
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Cust will be gone next year
I think that handwriting is clearly on the wall. So the only real question is whether the A’s can pick up someone who can help tangentially this season. The A’s have enough salary play to be able to pick up a dump for this year and maybe next and not worry about the decline.
As Nico says, it’s all theoretical. But I’d give up Sweeney for a salary dump power hitter right now to play DH if you all wanted to keep Cust…as if I’m in a position to do anything except type into this Mac.
Who is this mythical salary dump power hitter you keep talking about?
Travis Hafner – His OPS is 20 points higher than Cust. You want to move Sweeney for that?
Paul Konerko – He’s a 10 and 5 guy, do you think he’ll accept a trade to Oakland?
Alex Rios – You really want to pay him 12.5M until he’s 35?
Alfonso Soriano – aside from a full NTC, do you want to pay that guy $18M per year until 2014?
Derrek Lee – Is hitting .234/.330/.378. Cust is hitting 286/.382/.371… and is cheaper by a ton… and Lee has a NTC
Dan Uggla – Interesting, but the Marlins don’t usually take less than full value. There’s no salary dump to be had here.
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Cherry picking stats
Travis Hafner: Look at his slugging percentage, his number of homers. Cust’s OPS is inflated by a ton of walks, which is normally a good thing but right now the A’s need slugging.
Konerko: Maybe he’d accept a trade, maybe not. You asked for named.
Alex Rios: If $12.5M is what it takes, then yes, I’d keep him until he’s 35. Of course, it’s unlikely he’d stay a member of the A’s until he’s 35 anyway.
Alfonso Soriano: See Alex Rios.
Derrek Lee: He hits more homers than Cust, and it’s possible a change of scenery will do him good.
Dan Uggla: Yeah, you’re probably right.
These players are all plagued by one or more (or all) of the following.
1) Albatross of a salary that will debilitate the team and erase a budget surplus that would’ve allowed the team to pursue better players in the offseason.
2) Likely decline due to age and other reasons (making said albatross of a salary even worse).
3) Significant cost in prospects and/or good young players on the team right now (Gio, Cahill) which the team can’t afford to part with.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 1, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
answers
1. Lew Wolff doesn’t open his books to me, or to you. Chavez is coming off the books in the off-season, Sheets if he re-signs will be cheaper. I am assuming there’s enough money in the till to get a player now, and then not stint too much (beyond normal A’s limitations ) in the off-season.
2. See (1).
3. This is a real issue, and I wouldn’t make a trade for any of these guys if it involved players of the caliber of Gio and Cahill.
These aren't really satisfying answers....
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 1, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Lew Wolff doesn't open up his books to us
So arguing budgets is immaterial. We know that the A’s will have money to spend, if only to keep the Players Union from screaming “collusion.”
You're basically saying
we don’t know what Lew going’s to spend….and then assuming he’ll spend all that money to take on bad contracts.
And there’s a difference between spending money and spending it wisely. Taking on Hafner’s contract? Stupid, even when not taking into account the costs of prospects and the opportunity cost of not getting a better player. Taking on Rios’s contract is stupid as well considering the boatload of good prospects Chicago would want. Taking on Soriano’s contract even without giving up anything is in a whole ’nother league of stupid.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Re: #3
That’s fine, but if we’re not going to pay for FAs to come here, then we have a problem. No one is going to take Sweeney, Rosales, and some filler and give up a hitter who is actually decent. We’re going to have to deal one of those guys, or hope we get lucky signing the next Alex Rios or something.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
If we can't pay FA's to come here
Then we have to find the next Alex Rios, even if it’s Alex Rios.
The fact is, it’s possible that nothing can be done without sacrificing a Gio or Cahill — in which case nothing can be done and that’s it.
so, you wouldn't roll the dice
On a major young offensive star. Hanley? Cano? Morales (after he’s healthy again)? Kinsler? Wright? … if it means you have to give up one of those guys?
I mean, sure, but until we get some offense, we’re going to be mediocre and stuck in baseball limbo.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting question
Cahill, no. Gio, yeah maybe.
konerko?
the leading HR guy the 2.5 games back white sox?
Hafner 2010 wOBA .349
Cust 2010 wOBA .344
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Konerko is also a 10/5 guy who would probably slap Kenny Williams if he tried to deal him to a last place team
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On the other hand
Hafner…. 8 HR, 13 2B, SLG: .425 (212 AB)
Cust….. 2 HR, 3 2B, SLG: .371 (105 AB)
Earl Weaver’s old formula for winning games: Get two guys on, then hit a three-run homer. Well, the A’s can get two men on. But Cust will only be a third guy. Hafner might actually drive them in.
sigh.
Hafner: .349 wOBA
Cust: .344 wOBA
Oh, and Hafner is $10M more expensive, signed through 2013, and is 33 this year.
There is so much more to being a good offensive player than HR, 2B, and SLG% that it’s not worth continuing to discuss this.
What’s great is that you post that right after saying I cherry pick stats. Good call.
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remember 2007?
the last time Hafner played a full season?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Hella! it was so awesome when he was only 31 and not broken down!
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These are the stats I was looking at to begin with...
When you have eight players with decent OBPs, you have plenty of guys getting on base. Then you have to look at stats like HR and 2B.
wOBA is an excellent way to create a general comparison aggregate when looking at all kinds of hitters. But we’re not. We’re looking at a team made of players who get on base but don’t drive in runs. wOBA is a one-size-fits-all statistic. It’s useless in this particular case.
You're assuming that a point of SLG is somehow worth more if your team doesn't have much power.
A point of SLG is a point of SLG. It doesn’t matter if your offense collectively slugs .300 or .800. Same goes for OBP.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Every game is a small sample size
You’re looking at huge aggregates here. Any given game - ANY GIVEN GAME - can be turned around by a double or a home run. That particular game is unlikely to be turned around by a walk or by a dinky single.
In the long term, yes … you’re absolutely right. But on a game-by-game basis, you have to have power on your team. Jack Cust, to date, has none. Hafner has a whole bunch more.
If the situation were reversed, and the A’s were filled with Hafners, trading one of them for a Jack Cust would be a great idea.
I really don't want to argue
I know you were just throwing names out.
but Hafner doesn’t have much power anymore. If we project Cust numbers to Hafners ABs Cust has 4 to Hafners 8. that’s not really a difference. PLus Hafner has not played in 12 of the Indians’ games, why is that? is he still hurt? I realize there is interleague, but do you think he could not come off the bench to PH? that makes no sense.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Small sample size on the projection
Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not seeing the power at all coming from Cust, not even that many shots to the wall or warning track. One of Cust’s two homers, if I recall, was a wheel-house rookie mistake that Pee Wee Herman could’ve hit out.
I don’t know Hafner’s specific situation either, but the doubles and home runs totals would indicate more power than Cust has shown. Projected out, Eric Patterson has 8 homers as well, but I don’t think anyone would argue there’s minimal difference between his power and Hafner’s.
Hafner doesn't have the power he used to
he still has some, but he is certainly not worth what he is being paid. In a vacuum, he might be a slight upgrade to Cust, but he would cost money AND players, where as Cust is a sunk cost. I think most of the disagreements here come from the fact that Cust is a sunk cost (i.e. free to us right now), whereas any other player costs either money, players, or both. Unless I can get someone great, I’m not willing to spend. Of course, I’m not GM. . .
Hafner is over the hill, man
If you want to say we should acquire one of those other guys you mentioned, sure. But not Hafner. I bet Hafner hits <15 HR this year.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
It was the interleague thing
Manny Acta announced he would only PH, and I believe he got something like 5PAs during interleague, all as a PH, and didn’t do anything with them.
SLG is an incomplete measure of a player.
Or a decent measure of a particular facet of a player. wOBA is the entire value of a guy. If Hafner is only a 0.005 wOBA increase over our current DH, then he’s not worth it.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
And on the other hand....
Hafner: 13.5 million (‘10), 13.5 million (’11), 13.5 million (’12), club option for ’13 with 2.75 million buyout.
Hafner’s ages for those years: 33, 34, 35, 36
Not to mention he’d cost prospects. And prevent the team from the option of getting a good player on the FA market.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jul 1, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
If he'd cost good prospects
Forget it.
If it’s a salary dump and the A’s won’t give up much, that’s a different story.
you are correct
a big HR bat would be good, but there is no one available that fits the bill. I think the A’s should run Cust out there everyday. I would expect him to hit 20 HRs this year.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
We need you to be Past Ed for awhile
And go back to 2008 and tell Cust’s past self to never ever change his swing
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Pshhh, OBP!?!
Why not walk Cust? He’s slow and there’s no one to drive him in anyway. It’s kind of like what we heard about Choice’s OBP; that it’s inflated due to lack of protection. The thing is that he just has no power anymore. Dude’s slugging worse than Sweeney and barely higher than Rajai!
I'm not sure this quite follows
If Cust is a terrible hitter, shouldn’t they just try to get him out? I mean, generally, the reason that a player is pitched around is that he could do damage if he were pitched to. So it seems to me that if Cust really is bad, then pitchers wouldn’t walk him as much, which suggests to me that perhaps his walks are indicative of his strike-zone judgement, and that perhaps his outcomes will improve. This is not to say I think he will return to ’08 Cust (he seems to have been declining from that stunning year ever since), but I do think he will improve.
I'M SORRY MY BAD
I WILL GET BACK TO THE CUST HATE.
STRICKOUTS!!!!!!!1111
WALKS SUCK WHERE ARE MY DONGERS!!!!!!?
This is a good point but I wonder....
I think the book on Cust is probably that the best way to get him out if he swings is to nibble, nibble, nibble at the corners and with off-speed stuff. And with nibbling comes walks.
Fair point
And it’s fair to say that pitchers would rather walk him than have him hit a homerun, so until pitchers start challenging him more, we may not know whether his power drop is a loss in his skillset, or is more related to the way he is pitched.
Right
When he was a three true outcome guy the walks were great and the K’s OK. Now he’s like a Jeremy Giambi- ex juicer who can’t cut it anymore. Jeremy had a lifetime .377 OBP and was out of the league by 29.
Rich Becker!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The book on Cust has basically always been throwing him breaking balls in the zone.
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exactly
Sweeney is MUCH worse a hitter than Cust, its almost night & day.
I’m over Sweeney and his “rad defense” we arent scoring and its because of him being in the offense. Raj at least adds runs on the basepaths, Sweeney hits nothing but singles and thats it.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
yeah, because he should be on the dl
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
In reality, I'd say he's slightly above average defensively.
Nowhere as good as the UZR numbers last year but probably not as bad as he’s been this year (-5.8 UZR/150). But that may change if the knees continue to be an issue. If Sweeney becomes a below average fielder, he’s pretty much useless.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
that's aproblem with fielding value
by the time you figure out a defensive decline is true, its too late.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
THIS
I’m glad someone said this.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, good point.
I’m assuming the A’s have a far better sense of Sweeney’s defense and far more accurate methods of measuring it than we do with publicly offered information like UZR. At least, I hope so…I know the Red Sox do but I don’t know if the A’s are as statistically inclined as we like to think.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
geren isn't
he likes it when guys “show [him] something”
But I totally agree with you, Swingles is almost worthless if his knees prevent him from being a good defender.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Well, he's languishing in Boston now anyway.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Smart move
The #RiverCats website has removed Clay Mortensen from tonight’s scheduled starter box. Called up to replace Braden?
ClayMort FTW!!!
I'm okay with standing Pat
If it also means that we won’t trading anyone away for prospects. We can trade Sheets, we can not trade him — but I don’t think he’s going to fetch much back at this point. So, I’m inclined to say “why bother” and maybe resign him for cheap next season and slot him #4. I really don’t want to see Crisp go, though. The players have said they like him, he’s an exciting player to watch as a fan, and he’s hitting the cover off the ball. I can see the team slowly spiraling down into the cellar with him gone.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
I can see Crisp's OPS slowly spiraling down into the cellar if the A's keep him.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 1, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
it's going to go down anyways
He’s not going OPS 1.224 for the whole year. But .800 would be more than fine with his defense (as long as he doesn’t Spiderman himself back onto the DL).
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
For his OPS to go down to .800 would probably require him OPSing about .600 for awhile.
That doesn’t help the team, nor does it help the idea of trading him.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 1, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
For his OPS to go down to .800, it'd mean he would have to OPS .600 for, like, three days.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
It's also incredibly dumb manangement
when you have a young team, to trade away the veteran sparkplug who’s the best thing the team has going at the moment. Talk about demoralizing a young group.
And what are you going to get for him anyway? It’s July 1st and he’s been healthy enough to play 9 games.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That *could* be the case with Crisp...
But I would put Suzuki in that class of players… that if they were traded would completely demoralize the team.
Sure, Crisp has been a spark, but he’s only played 9 games. That spark is going to go away when the law of averages catches up to him. At that point he’ll definitely be worth nothing.
by Brett Narloch on Jul 1, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
The players like him
I think that’s what Nico is also referring to. Think about it: who else have the players praised about their energy. No one.
That’s a guy you keep, especially considering you’re likely to get nothing back for.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I totally agree about Suzuki
It would be unbelievably stupid to trade Suzuki — who happens to work with all the pitchers, most of them for their entire career. Fortunately, Beane understands this and is interested in extended Suzuki, not trading him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Cust.
Powell’s career OBP is around .300 and his slugging isn’t actually that great, plus he’s a total clog on the bases.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Problem is, he's pretty much Cust
with more power, less OBP — and less of a track record. Which is…kind of like…Jake Fox?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He's been injured most of his career
so in that way I guess he’s a blissful combination of Fox and Chavez.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Heh.
This is the one player where “total clog on the bases” makes a whole lot of sense.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
No one really knows about Powell
Because he’s never been given much of a chance. Cust, however, has a track record. He just has to play. Every day.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly...
sign Suzuki to a long-term extension so that fans feel safe enough to get attached to him, THEN trade him away for prospects, only to see him get traded for a pittance to the Yankees, where he will flourish.
Not that I’m bitter.
side note
I think Crisp should get the corn rows back. When his cap fell off after making that catch against the wall he looked like a crack whore.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I personally prefer the afro
Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
Veteran sparkplug?
Nico, I’m not seeing it. Coco Crisp has been amazing. But in all of the games since his return (save the Trevor Cahill win), the A’s fortunes have rode completely on the other teams’ mistakes. I’ve seen nothing in the way of RISP hits to drive in runs, other than the usual occasional heroics from Kurt Suzuki. Everyone else continues to hit grounders and pop-ups…the only difference is how the Pirates and Orioles play in the field, and Mr. Crisp himself.
I'm not suggesting his teammates have played well the past 7 games
Just that the message/morale of trading the only guy who is playing well and providing a spark would be detrimental in the long run.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The Geren hate has to stop!
How is he supposed to make the “right” moves when he has guys that would suck up the place in double A? It’s not coaching 90% of the time its the execution of the “Professionals”!
by Rory_Richter on Jul 1, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't it be great if managers were worth 16 wins/season?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Like any manager, you have to put your employees in a position to succeed.
If you don’t play Cust every day, he’s not going to succeed. If you don’t give people consistent roles in the lineup, they’re not going to perform consistently. If someone is good at collating but you have them in charge of getting the coffee, you’re wasting their talents.
by LoneStranger on Jul 1, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I've noticed that most of the recent Cust clutch K scenarios have come when he's been a pinch hitter.
It’d be interesting to see his numbers as a OF/DH/PH. Some guys are better at batting cold, others aren’t.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Baseball Reference has that.
Split PA BA OBP SLG as LF 35 .357 .486 .357 as RF 8 .125 .125 .125 as DH 77 .258 .351 .379 as PH 4 .500 .500 .750 as PH for DH 1 .000 .000 .000
PA AB BA OBP SLG as LF 451 .249 .384 .422 as RF 441 .259 .395 .490 as DH 1068 .234 .360 .454 as PH 53 .200 .396 .225 as PH for DH 4 .000 .250 .000
Over his career he’s noticeably worse as a PH (which could be a function of how he’s used), but not so much this year. The links have full details. (I probably should have included the SO numbers in my paste, but I didn’t.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Hmm.
I was hoping for more than 53 PAs. That’s not really enough to mean anything, unfortunately.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
True.
Especially since it might just mean that in the years when Cust was less good he was on the bench with few starts but did get some PH appearances.
Of the five PH appearances in 2010, two were strickouts.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I love how almost everyone
has adopted “strickout.” Someone coming to this place in the past year must think most people here are poor spellers.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
This A's team is a contendor...
If we can get some bullpen help. I mean the lineup is coming together nicely since Crisp has returned and we have guys that started the season, now playing from the bench that got some well needed experience and confidence. Our pitching is solid with Cahill and Mazzaro showing up. Now we have to get run support for Braden, Gonzalez, and Sheets (Which will come with the lineup becoming more solid) The only problem this team has now is the bullpen. Every single time the starter leaves the game i get a sick feeling in my stomach because I know someone like Tyson Ross is going to come in and walk the leadoff man and then give up a homerun on the next pitch. (no no no!) So i say all they need to do is get a couple of decent bullpen guys and get rid of Wuertz and send Ross back down. Maybe trade a couple of our 18 outfielders or something :)
Look around at the middle of the order
for every team you consider a contender, and then tell me how this team is one. The difference is so stark that not even an unbelievably dominant rotation like…Mazzaro, Braden, Sheets. Aw, crap.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah I see your point..
But they have been hitting the ball better than what they were (which I know isn’t saying a lot)
Okay maybe I should have said with a couple of moves this team could be a contendor. But then again that could be said for most teams… Either way.. moves have to be done I think..
by Rory_Richter on Jul 1, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Generally...the folks here are in agreement about two points...
1. Bowers and Ross should not be on the major league club at this point, and need to be replaced forthwith.
2. The team would be better off right now with a different manager.
Beyond that, ideas to improve the club are all over the map.
They need to go for different reasons
Bowers – sucks. Should be DFAed. Replaced with the guy we got from Balt for Fox, maybe.
Ross – should be starting every 5th day.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Rory, I appreciate the sentiment
But honestly, how? We have no pop, no bullpen and our starters are wobbling and/or hurt.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
My secret solution to the A's power problems
Have Bowers and Ross pitch for the opposition
Should the A's acquire Miggy to DH?
The O’s are supposedly promoting Bell to play 3B, benching Miggy.
Well, I mean he's got a few more points of SLG than Cust
but his OBP is .315
He’s like allergic to getting on base.
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Miggy is way over the hill
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks Don
I was going to post something similar today called “Buyers or Cellars”
The June Swoon pretty much leaves us out of the hunt, with Angels and Rangers out shopping for just a few pieces to complete their run, we are left without any pop in the lineup and a bullpen that once looked so good, now leaves us many pieces away from being in contention. And thus, we are left to entertain ourselves here on AN.
We would need a serious DH, one who actually hit homeruns and not just have the ability to get on. We would need someone other than Breslow and Bailey to be consistent in the pen. We would need more than just Gio and Cahill to pitch well. Sheets is sheet, Braden is such a great guy but without pop his 5 ERA is not going to get it done.
We are just too many pieces away from contention. At the start of the season, when our pitching staff was better and our bullpen better, we could hang in there. That day is gone.
Let’s trade Sheets, let’s trade Crisp while his limbs are attached. Let’s hang on to the rest of our lineup. Send Ross down to get consistent work and some self-confidence. Bring up Henry Rodriguez and cut Bowers. Let our starters go a bit longer and save the bullpen.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
I agree with trading Sheets, but not Crisp. He’s the A’s best player right now and is pretty fun to watch. He’s actually turning out to be the player Beane envisioned.
Bowers should have never been called up in the first place. Unfortunately, H-Rod is hurt ATM.
Next week he will be hurt.
He should have zippers installed around all his joints and major organs as much as he is operated on. It is only a matter of time before he is hurt. Trade high. We are not going to contend this year. Flip him for help next season.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
We would not get anything of note for Jackson
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Dumb trade but I am willing to wait on Jackson and see how he pans out
before jumping off the bridge
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I like the guy quite a bit.
And he’s switching to a new league with unfamiliar pitchers. It’s understandable he’s struggling a little.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I think he will pan out if we give it some time. In the short term however
we could sure use Demel up here
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
maybe it's in the DLD
But today’s Chron has an article of him saying he’s pressing. To me, it was kind of a roundabout way of saying he’s not comfortable in the 3 hole, but maybe that’s just me reading into it.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Untouchable list
Suzuki
Cahill
Anderson
Gio
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Kouzmanoff is another
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
We've got two All-Stars!
Oh.
http://twitter.com/susanslusser/statuses/17515207587
Donaldson and Mortensen were named to the PCL All-Star team. #Athletics
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Awesome! Totally deserving
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
because he is stubborn and has more heart than brains
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Supposedly they're trying to see if he feels any discomfort at all.
Otherwise, Mortensen’s coming up.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
At this point I would rather have a healthy Mortensen than a hurt Braden
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Mortensen is having a pretty nice year at Sacramento anyway.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 1, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd like to see them call up "Big John" also for some bullpen help and cut Bowers outright
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Same.
Pitching while hurt is never a good thing (yes, I talking to you, CT), and a fastball/change Braden isn’t likely better than Mortensen.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Braden can't just hurl the ball up there like he has and be successful
Just go to the DL Dallas, everyone is doing it.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
John Hunton's stats this year
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG
4 2 3.35 28 0 0 0 0 37.2 38 17 14 3 15 25 0.77 .260
I like the ERA and 25 strikeouts in 37 innings. Better than half the guys in the pen right now
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
I saw John Huston's name there for a second
He’s dead, but his old stats were sensational.
Who can we trade? What's even out there that we need?
We need Joey Devine. Or just a decent reliever to replace Bowers.
We need to find a guy off the scrapheap to throw into the pen so we can send Ross to AAA.
We need Jack Cust at DH every single game until the end of the year.
We need to not have Ryan Sweeney in the lineup everyday. In fact, we need a proper 4 man rotation in the OF. The best part about that is that only Jackson is limited to LF, the other 3 can play all 3.
We need Brett Anderson back. We need Braden on the DL.
We need a manager who can acknowledge that a player is hitting with a 1000 OPS this month, and have him hit higher in the order to take advantage of a streak.
Who do we have to offer? Funny, I see could see us improving at literally everything. Keep all the pitchers under 28. Every offensive player could be dealt at this point and it wouldnt hurt us in the long term.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
scrapheap bullpen guys
Cla Meredith and Mike MacDougal can be had for next to nothing right now. One of them has to be better than Bowers. Cann up Wolf for the other spot.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Cann up?
Bring up
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Khaaaaaannnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
CHONE!!!!!
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jul 1, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe Ellis to Red Sox since Pedroia is out
No one wants Devine. No one wants Cust. No one wants Sweeney. No one wants Braden.
The only guys anyone would want other than maybe Ellis would be Suzuki, Gio, Anderson and Cahill and we cannot let them go at any price. Please!!!!!!!!
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jul 1, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh oh
susanslusser #Athletics at #Orioles: Davis cf, Barton 1b, Kouzmanoff 3b, Suzuki c, Sweeney rf, Cust dh, Ellis 2b, Gross lf, Pennington ss
DON’T TELL ME CRISP IS HURT…AGAIN
Jackson was running like shit yesterday
Crisp is probably sore as hell.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jul 1, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm still trying to figure out why he was on the field yesterday instead of Gross.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
really?
are you still trying to figure that one out?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Occam's razor?
Geren = fucking moron?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
You must have missed my post
about him being the best defensive DH.
Or did you mean a real reason that made sense? Because I don’t think you will find one.
hahahaha, nah that made me laugh
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
when I was a kid
my brother would always tell me that Hal McRae won the Gold Glove at DH 3 years in a row. I believed him.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Ha!
That is awesome. We older brothers can be so mean. . .
I'm hoping this is just precautionary
i.e., Crisp is probably sore from that crazy catch, why not give him a day off to recover.
A lot of people do that, actually
I have known multiple people who have cracked ribs while coughing, and unfortunately it is both very painful and slow to heal. Not really anything that can be done to speed it up, either, so it’s basically just time.
I broke 5 ribs in 2004
it took 11 months to fully recover, sneezing just broke them more. If I could feel a sneeze coming on, I had to press one arm behind my back and the other pressing my chest by holding the top of my shoulder. Then my ribs didnt crack as badly, it at all. However, if a sneeze snuck up on my I was in line for some pain.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Your ribs arent connected to anything
they just float there, so any kind of trauma, to the chest, even sneezing, will effect broken ribs.
Its literally the worst minor injury you can do to yourself. There’s no way anything can be done to fix it, unless you want to wear a girdle 24-7, but that aint for everybody. In summer? Yeah not happening. If you break any other bone, you are fine in up to 3 months. My ribs took 11. God that year sucked.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I pulled a chest muscle working at a furniture store for a summer.
Took six months for that little “oh shit if I keep doing this I’m going to re-injure it twinge” to go away.
I've cracked a rib from coughing. It fucking sucked.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Yeah, he stayed in the game and had two more at bats.
Jackson was taken out last night (hence Rajai hitting third in the ninth inning) so it might be an issue.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
susanslusser
Geren is giving Crisp a day to rest his legs; it’s not related to crashing into the wall. #Athletics
less than 5 seconds ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 1, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
susanslusser
Conor Jackson’s hamstring is a little tight; Geren says he’s day to day. Crisp will be back in tomorrow. #Athletics
1 minute ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 1, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Braden on throwing 25-30 pitches off the mound: “ultimately pain-free.” if he rebounds well tomorrow he’ll start Saturday. #Athletics
If this turns into a Duchscherer situation, I’m going to be seriously pissed.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I’d just sit him until after the break and then see what’s up.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 1, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
You, me, and anyone else capable of thinking rationally
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Interesting use of the word "ultimately"...
?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
just like his foot
ultimately its pain free because he can’t fucking feel.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
This is beyond ridiculous.
If he’s having to justify his session as “ultimately” pain free, he needs to be DL’d, like ASAP.
by MrMoneyBaller on Jul 1, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
But it's absolutely imperative that
Braden make one more start before the All-Star Break, because…
…um…
…
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I know!
So we can up his value and sell high on him for a non-sucky DH, because Jack Cust is the worst player in the history of baseball because of all the strickouts!!
by MrMoneyBaller on Jul 1, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
susanslusser
Geren said of Braden: “The plan is for him to pitch Saturday.” #Athletics
less than a minute ago via Twittelator
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 1, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I really have no idea what the A's should do...
Here’s a couple of “meh” ideas nonetheless…
- Sheets: If the team can eat some salary and thereby get a premium prospect or two for him (maybe to the Rangers for Tanner Scheppers?), then I’d be open to that. But if it’s just going to be a crap player or something, then no dice. Keep the guy and maybe see if he can find some consistency and build some additional raport with the organization so that after the season, he might be inclined to re-sign on a slight discount. This team needs as many healthy, reasonably-effective arms as it can get.
- Crisp: Not only has he been injured a ton this season, but he’s been that way every season since like 2006. Other teams know this. Hence, he’s not going to fetch a ton in trade, even if he stays healthy through this month. I’d say keep him.
- Offensive help: I’m not worried about Chris Carter. I think he’ll be fine long-term. Michael Taylor is looking a bit more worrisome, IMHO. I still hold out a bit of hope for both Corey Brown and Travis Buck, as well. A truly healthy Travis Buck might be a decent upgrade over Conor Jackson or even a less than healthy Ryan Sweeney, IMHO, while Corey Brown still has 20+ homer power potential and good speed and defense. If both of those guys could somewhow overcome their individual demons, it might not be SOOOO critical that Carter and Taylor turn their seasons around, but as things are now, that’s just the way it is…thanks again, injury bug.
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Seriously.
If Beane could actually do that (even with eating salary, which we have), that needs to happen.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
This entire posts embarks on a journey in an alternate reality.
well to be fair the crisp part is probably true.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jul 1, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Main?
All the reports I’ve read say the Giants are getting Chris Ray, who is. . . not horrible, but most definitely not Scheppers.
Reply fail!
Dang, this was supposed to reply to TBRMKane above.
I hadn't seen that
thanks for the clarification.
It was Chris Ray + a PTBNL.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
possibilities for marketing
Cust to the Rays….
Ellis to the Phillies (or Red Sox)…..
Crisp or Davis to the Red Sox….
Try to get lucky with a prospect or two who will contribute in 2012/3.
Ellis and Crisp to the Red Sox for
Patterson!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Poo tee weet!
Do you really think he’s referencing Vonnegut, though? It’s a pretty common phrase.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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