Patterson And Fox: One More Thing...
by Nico on Jun 6, 2010 8:09 PM PDT
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PrintSo we've hashed, rehashed, and served as hash browns, how useless Patterson and Fox are and how hamstrung the A's roster is having two players on it who can't field and don't hit. They're both out of options and apparently, for this reason alone, the A's keep these two to represent a full 8% of their roster.
I want to make a point about this that I actually haven't seen made. It's not that Patterson and Fox suck -- the A's think they might be not terrible, I get that. And it's not that they would pass through waivers unclaimed -- the A's think they wouldn't and they probably know better than I do on that.
Yet...
Here's the thing. EVEN IF these guys have something to offer a major league team. EVEN IF they were to be claimed off of waivers and Oakland were to lose them. Think Lenny DiNardo. Think Chad Gaudin. Think Kirk Saarloos. What do those guys have in common? The A's let them go, and then eventually got them back.
Patterson and Fox, like DiNardo, Gaudin, and Saarloos, have limited skill-sets that make them fringey players. You pick them up because at the moment they're available you have a need that they fill. You let them go because there are too many things they don't do well. Jack Hannahan and Dan Meyer were DFA last week and anyone, including the A's, could have had them cheap.
If the A's like Patterson and Fox so much, they should stop worrying about losing them because even if they do those guys will become available again. And again. And again. That's what happens to these guys. And the A's really need to stop wasting roster spots on two players who keep hamstringing the team because they have so few skills and those skills don't include playing solid OF defense, playing solid infield defense, getting on base, playing a decent 1B...
Landon Powell (decent bat, can play 1B) and Matt Carson (platooning with Gabe Gross) would be more useful players on this team right now and they're not that great. It's not just that Patterson and Fox aren't very good, it's that the number of things they're especially bad at is so abundant, and so when you really just need someone who can __, you look down the bench at the 24th guy on the roster, then at the 25th guy on the roster, and you still can't find anyone.
You know that saying? "If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were." Let them go, Billy. They may never leave and even if they do, they will come back someday if you really want them.
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LET THEM GO.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
ONE MORE TIME
DFA Fox
DFA Patterson
Purchase Blackley
Purchase Demel
Option Ross
Option Rodriguez
Recall Carson
Recall Powell
That is all.
So Carson, Powell, Blackley and Demel are going to lead the A's to the pennant?
None of these guys is more than a fringe major leaguer. Powell is fairly solid when he plays but has no durability.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
As a backup catcher (once/week),
occasional platoon DH (once or twice/week), and available pinch hitter, Powell could actually be pretty useful and would hold up fine physically.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2010 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure but he'll never be more than a backup C. He won't matter in the standings.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions
As with lineup construction
Even if the overall effect is small, it doesn’t mean the team should do something really dumb.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 6, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly. And to say "the backup catcher doesn't matter"
isn’t true. He doesn’t matter as much as the starting catcher, true, but OTOH he matters a heck of a lot more than the water boy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He also doesn't matter as much as the starting 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, LF, CF, RF or DH
So he he’s at best the 10th most important non-pitcher on the team.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
No duh.
Still not unimportant.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, unimportant
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
You're acting like the A's have 9 starters and 4 bench players
This is untrue. The A’s have 13 position players who all play a lot (some more than others), partly because they tend to play (or “play”) a lot of different positions and get slotted in wherever there’s a need.
There is plenty of playing time, both at the plate and in the field, for the A’s 24th and 25th player. To say “well who really cares?” just because some other aspects are even more important is, IMO, a poor way to view a roster.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2010 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I really don't get where you're coming from on this
Bench players are not as important overall as the starters, but the quality of your bench is ABSOLUTELY important to the overall success of your team in terms of depth, the ability to rest a starter here and there and still have someone in the lineup you at least have some faith in and so on.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
As we found out the other day when we ran Patterson, Fox and Gross out there
against a left hander….
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
It's not really dumb. It's only a little bit dumb.
Really dumb is filling the lineup with average to slightly below average players. It’s very hard to improve enough to make up ground in the standings without trading for a superstar.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Patterson and Fox are so awful that Carson/Powell could be worth about a win in the standings over the rest of the season
And this is a really close division. One win could be the difference.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 6, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
How much do you think Powell and Carson could provide over 2/3 of a season?
Powell, playing 3 times a week, should be at least a .75-1 WAR player. Carson as a guy who plays against LHP, depending on defense, should be worth at least half a win.
Combined, Patterson and Fox are worth what? -.5 to -1 WAR?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 6, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm...based on a 26 week season:
Powell 1x per week: .3 WAR
Carson 2x per week (all lefties): .5 WAR
Fox 1x per week .1 WAR
Patterson 2x per week (all lefties): .3 WAR
I guess I’d put the difference at about .4 WAR, or half a win.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
That's half a win over a whole season or maybe 30% of a win from now on
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Powell so far this year: 0.4 WAR
Fox this year: (-0.3) WAR
Patterson this year: 0.1 WAR
Powell has been more than half a win better than Fox + Patterson this year already.
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Powell>Fox
not sure if Carson is better than Epatt. Carson didn’t show me a whole lot the last time he was up.
by sf drift king on Jun 6, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, you have to consider when Patterson plays
It’s usually against lefties, and he can’t hit lefties. He also can’t play defense.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 6, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
This is the key --
If Gabe Gross happened to be right-handed and happened to hit only LHPs well, Patterson would be more useful than he is.
As it is, Patterson’s usefulness is mostly to stop Gross from hitting against LHPs; unfortunately, Patterson can’t hit LHPs well nor can he play defense unhorribly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Way too many bad left handed hitters on this team.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Didn't you mean......
Way to many bad left-handed hitters on this team
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
Hey! Patterson's 2nd on the team in HR!
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Besides, just because he leads the team in HRs
doesn’t mean every time he hit a HR resulted in an A’s victory
They happen to be 2-2 in those games
All but one had run differentials of 9 or more. The other one was 3 runs apart.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
They one and only reason Fox/Patterson are still here
is that they’re out of options. If they had options, they’d be gone a long time ago. With that being said, I can’t believe this is the reason Beane is keeping them here…
Which is why I wrote this post tonight --
to point out that even the “we could lose them” factor is a bit of a smokescreen.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'll give you that one
For me, this team is good enough to hover, not contend. This next series should tell a lot.
by sf drift king on Jun 6, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think any team in the AL West is good enough to contend
It’s just going to be who can hover the best.
All three teams are going to beat up on the bad teams (and the NL teams), and then generally flounder against the real contenders in the other divisions.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
And then get hammered in the playoffs.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'll take Leyland's take
The Detroit manager said that with the Athletics pitching, they may surprise people in the playoffs; that is, go far, get to the World Series, etc.
The playoffs are very unpredictable IMO. Who’d have guessed that Derek Lee’s error on a groundball would derail a very good Cubs team? Holliday’s error? That Minnesota could never once beat the Yankees in umpty-ump straight games?
…that the Athletics could beat the Yankees twice at Yankee Stadium, then lose two at home?
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 7, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The A's tried trading for a superstar already (Holliday)
It didn’t work. They need to try winning games without one (or two). That’s just who the A’s are at this point.
It worked fine when the Cardinals did it though.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Holliday didn't "work" because of anything Holliday did.
It didn’t “work” cause the supporting cast sucked and obviously wasn’t ready to compete.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
I agree with this
people keep attempting to put Holliday’s sub-par Athletics numbers into a landscape unaffected by the other players in the lineup. But other players do matter to the individual’s performance.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 7, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Holliday
had an OPS+ of 120 with the Athletics last year. in 400 Plate appearances.
To this point in the 2020 his OPS+ is 127. (237 PAs)
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
You're blowing your cover again.
To this point in the 2020 his OPS+ is 127. (237 PAs)
by Future Ed on Jun 7, 2010 12:46 PM PDT
That wasn't my point....
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 7, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Preferably
a star or impact bat who wants to play in Oakland. Holliday didn’t want to be here.
by sf drift king on Jun 6, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes
Holliday didn’t want to be in Oakland. If the A’s are going to have a superstar(s), he/they need(s) to be homegrown (praying for Carter/Taylor)
Not drafted by them, though
That’s a small difference as far as I’m concerned.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
below is a list of impact bats who want to come to / stay in oakland
Your first place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 6, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
haha
I actually started scrolling down until I realized.
Good one.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions
"Made you scroll!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If he keeps Zooks healthy he'll matter a great deal.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Hmm...
I recall you being quite bearish on Powell before this season, what’s changed your mind?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
No, I like his defense and he has a pretty good hitting approach
He’s just severely limited by his lack of durability, his lack of speed, and he’s not a good enough hitter to be a full-time DH.
Basically, I think he’s only a bench player which makes him not that valuable overall — but makes him a great replacement for a bench player who sucks. Or two that suck.
I mean just compare Powell to Fox. Who’s the better catcher? Powell. Who’s the better hitter? Probably Powell. How about who’s the better hitter between Patterson and Powell? Powell.
And best of all, Powell doesn’t claim to be able to play LF so no one is ever tempted to ask him to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That Mauer groundrule double yesterday was embarassing
Gross, Sweeney or Davis would have easily gotten to that ball. Patterson looked like n idiot
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Thing is, though... You *need* guys like that.
He doesn’t have to be starting caliber. He’s gotta be able to not embarrass himself when he plays, though.
Fox can’t do that.
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There's no probably about it, Powell's a better hitter than Fox.
He’s also arguably a better catcher than Zooks, but I’m alone on that bandwagon I think.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I think the probably is in order
Fox was projected a lot better preseason with the bat. I actually agree Powell’s the better defensive catcher between Powell and Suzuki though.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
And Zooks should be getting fewer starts at C
with the DH spot being used to keep his bat in the lineup. Especially against LHP.
Powell can fill in without creating a black hole in the lineup, and he can actually catch.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Until he gets hurt...
"The only way I'm going to get a Gold Glove is with a can of spray paint." - Reggie Jackson
Do the Cust
pay them a couple million and DFA them. No one will touch them (jk)
If he wants to run across the pitcher's mound, tell him to go do laps in the bullpen - pepe
by closetasfan on Jun 6, 2010 8:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This all sounds pretty pointless.
The team isn’t mediocre because the 24th and 25th guys suck. It’s mediocre because there is no All-Star talent in the starting lineup. Suzuki might be the 2nd best catcher in the AL, but he’s hardly an MVP candidate.
Unless you’re planning on trading Patterson and Fox for Prince Fielder, this isn’t going to matter.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
The problem is that Fox and Patterson aren't the 24th and 25th best players the organization has (or 11th and 12 or whatever if you wanna exclude pitchers)
There are a number of more deserving, better players. How much better? Who knows? But there are better options within the organization.
That would create a very nice ripple effect, as not only would better players come in and be better, but they could also prevent other players from being worse (Carson, for example, would prevent Gross or Sweeney from playing against lefties so much, which is a good thing).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 6, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't have a problem with replacing Fox and Patterson with Powell and Carson.
I also don’t think it will make any difference.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
That's not true at all
Patterson and Fox have had multiple starts, “non DL injured” players have forced the A’s to use their bench in plenty of high leverage situations, and Geren has been a “maneuvery” enough manager that the last 2 spots come into play often. It’s exactly half your bench on a team that doesn’t come close to starting the same 9 every day. That’s not trivial.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It's trivial when their replacements are either slightly better or slightly worse
Is anyone really arguing that Carson deserves a starting gig in the majors? Is anyone arguing that Powell will ever play enough to be important?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 6, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
What I don't understand is why you're arguing AGAINST having the best possilbe 25 man roster.
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I'm not sure why you seem to be setting up strawman arguments, but...
…I don’t see anyone suggesting people like Carson, Powell, Blackley or Demel will lead the A’s to the pennant, nor suggesting that someone like Carson deserves a starting gig, etc.
This is about how those guys would probably be better options than Fox or Patterson at this point and how they would at least help the 25-man roster be a bit better. Isn’t that worth something?
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I wish it’d work for the Brewers.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 6, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess we could throw in Hornbeck or something
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These guys remind me of Bob Wiley from What About Bob?
He’s not gone. He’s never gone.
JJ Martin
The best way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until the ball stops rolling and then pick it up. ~Bob Uecker
I think Beane's holding onto Fox/Patterson
until Chavez/Crisp return. However, I’m not sure how Chavez would help the team.
Of those four, Crisp is the only one who has a chance of actually being a positive for the team
And I’m not even sure about him.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 6, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Crisp is trying something new this year
It’s where you go on the DL for a bit, come back for 2 games with timely hits, and then do it all over again.
It makes you wanting more, but you’ll never know when you get it!
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
I’m really curious if there is any chance it gets picked up…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
If he stays healthy and is contributing....they should want him, no?
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
He won't stay healthy.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Chavez return?
Really does anyone want the Chavez we have had this year (when he was playing) ? We were begging for Cust to be called up
by HRH on Jun 6, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Not unless we get to him first!!!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
by OldhamA on Jun 7, 2010 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I gotta believe
that Chavy thiinks he can still play, and the only reason he hasn’t been able to contribute is because he’s been playing hurt. Chavy will be on a short leash to turn it around when he returns. I can’t see Beane letting Chavy play full-time while not producing.
which is why Chavy wud be on a short leash
Crisp is also due back. Along with Cust, Rajai, &Sweeney, who sits?
by sf drift king on Jun 6, 2010 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Nobody. The 4 who are actually healthy play.
And you forgot Gross. And my point still stands!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Really? You saw it in April and half of May.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
April/May is different
than July/August.
by sf drift king on Jun 6, 2010 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Not if you're determined to make excuses for someone and be blind.
When he comes back, Chavy will officially be “finally actually healthy and now rusty…” When in fact, he’s “broken physically and done, just like before.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm with you Nico
I’m just sayin that if BB reinserts Chavy as the DH, he must produce or be shown the door like Giambi. I’d prefer if we’d just cut him loose, but we know that’s not going to happen.
by sf drift king on Jun 6, 2010 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I was hoping they'd stash him on the 60-day DL
until rosters expanded in Sept.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd vote for extended rehab
I’d say, with a back injury unlike a leg injury (where you can actually test for “full speed performance”) no one can say when one’s back has returned to full functionality. Thus, a “rehab” might take on an exotic style of measurement…say, “When he’s hit his 20th HR in Sacramento, then we know his back/neck has returned to ‘fully functional’.”
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 7, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is why
I’m still waiting for Nelson Cruz to return to the A’s someday.
a valid point
And if a’s brass were here right now, they might say patterson and fox still have the potential to be the next nelson cruz
by GusanoQuemador on Jun 6, 2010 11:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
and if A's brass were here right now, I'd say
“Not enough potential to let them foul up our NOW by being on the roster”
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 7, 2010 3:31 AM PDT up reply actions
1 more thing abt Fox
Do you guys think he was given a fair shot here? Perhaps Fox needs to play full-time so that he can feel comfortable getting his swing down, etc.. He’s this guy who was suppose to have pop. I heard this from Cubbie fans and even from a Cubs’ scout at the game. Early on, guys on mlb network was sayin that Fox needs to play more too.
I think if Fox were to DH every day,
he’d hit 20+ HRs. But he’d do it with a .300 OBP and would essentially be Kouzmanoff at DH.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm still quite optimistic about Kouzmanoff
I think we’ve seen the worst of his struggles. Now he is getting more comfortable with AL pitching, he’s hitting more line drives and he’s getting deeper into counts.
Plus, I think he’ll light it up during interleague play.
I may be wrong but Kouz is a guy I’ve got a hunch is going to surprise some people, still.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I like him
He’ll never be an OBP guy, but he’s the best 3B solution we’ve had since literally 2005-06. Part of that, however, is his defense and that’s where Fox comes up so short. Your DH needs to be able to post an OBP over .300.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ive been a big fan of Kouz
and his career 80+ OPS second surge every year will erase a lot of the negativity about his first couple months in an A’s uni.
His OPS the last 20 games: 800, he’s really turning it around…
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Yeah, that's almost as good as Suzuki's is for the season!
Funny how they both have the same career OPS right now: .735.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
That's 18 more than acceptable DP levels.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I wish I could say he needs a better shot
But the guy just cannot hit.
I have not seen many ABs as terrible as his 2 K’s versus Liriano last night. His 1st AB when he went down swinging on 3 straight sliders was embarrassing. In my opinion, the guy doesn’t deserve a chance until he can look like a major league hitter and actually lay off pitches that he can’t hit.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't say that just yet...
I really think Beane should take the risk and try and see if he passes through waivers and takes an assignment in Sacto. Maybe it’s a confidence thing or it’s the switching of leagues, but he was fairly decent last year with Chicago.
Although, I have another theory, and it’s that the Cubbies have placed a curse on all players we receive from them…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that the A's shouldn't give up on him
I like him too. But he needs to figure things out like Cust in AAA, not in Oakland.
I missed that game
but yeah, I know what you mean..
by sf drift king on Jun 6, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I know I'm pretty much the only Fox supporter left,
but yeah, I’d like to see him play full-time to see if he can get into a rhythm. The problem is, you simply can’t bench Suzuki, Gross, or Cust to do it, so the idea of playing full-time is gone. It would have been nice when Chavez was taking a crap on the DH spot, but that opportunity’s gone.
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
I think that's totally reasonable
Cust should have made the team out of ST, but when he didn’t then Fox should have gotten the everyday DH gig. When that didn’t happen, he should have been sent to AAA. Where Patterson should have been sent to from Day 1.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
There's some sad hilariousness in the fact that the one guy who could benefit the most
from a full-time AAA gig…can’t. Silly options.
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
That's exactly what I was thinking
I started writing: “Well, why don’t they just send him to AAA” when I realized that could not happen…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 6, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
New tagline!
Athletics Nation: Sad Hilariousness
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 6, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
How many taglines do we have?!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Athletics Nation: The US is gonna whip England’s ass
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
by mikev on Jun 7, 2010 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Don't get me started on the options system.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
I was a big Fox proponent preseason
But he’s not better than Cust, not better than Barton, and not better than Suzuki counting defense. I could kinda see him rotating between those 3 spots and being a semi-full time player though. Fox is more of an experiment though, the kind of player you take a chance on in a lost season. If the A’s are competing and can’t find PT for him, I would let Fox go.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
That says it better than I can.
And you’re absolutely right. He’s not better than Cust, Barton, or Suzuki. Hell, he won’t touch Kouz’s value at 3B either.
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
I would too
But not for very much longer.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hello Oakland fans.
Astros fan here, and I have a question. This does not regard the post, but since this is the latest more people will see it. Now, to the point: I have recently added Jack Cust to my fantasy team due to him having loads of hits and homers since his AAA call up. Is he expected to stay in the line up every game? And say you guys are on the road at a national league ball park, since there is no DH, will Cust play OF, or sit on the bench?
It would be much appreciated if someone would answer.
Thanks.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
Some replies:
1. Loads of HRs? Like the one?
2. Cust should DH every game against RHP until interleague. In interleague he may not play much except to pinch hit.
3. Nobody cares about your fantasy team.
4. Welcome to AN.
That is all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Jun 6, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Better with the graphic.
Very welcoming!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 6, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Bone Crusher had posted that to Lookout Landing,
he totally would have gotten slammed. Not only do they not care about your fantasy team, but they don’t take kindly to random off-topic queries popping up on whatever the front-page post is.
We can be cliquish and/or snarky here at AN, but we really are much more welcoming than most blogs.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Lol at #3.
Sorry, I thought Cust had 2 or 3(didn’t know really).
Thanks for the info.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Jun 6, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm in first place :)
My OFs are underachievers so I thought Cust could help.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Jun 7, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
WE'RE all waiting for him to bust out.....
hasn’t happened just quite yet.
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
He is hitting around .280 which is great for him.
I’m assuming all of you are waiting for more home runs?
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Jun 7, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Saturday's managerial debacle
has made for some good JoePo fodder.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
by pam5981 on Jun 6, 2010 9:54 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
made my head hurt just reading about it again.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I remember I was kind of "Ehh, I can see the logic of it, maybe" at first
But that was before I knew Morneau was probably close to “evacuating” on the field.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Yeah, it makes it sound so much worse
with that quote from Gardenhire after the game. I mean, we knew Morneau was sick, but we didn’t know he was THAT sick.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 6, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, it turns out Justin Morneau was more than potentially-poopy.
He ruined our game.
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
"a loser's strategy"
Joe hit the nail on the head.
We deserve a winner’s strategy, IMO.
Fire Geren now.
That is all.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on Jun 6, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, you beat me to it
Must also have him on Twitter. ;-)
“My Least Favorite Move of 2010” sums it up. But it gets better.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
FB actually. Best move ever, because now I just read his posts as I see them pop up in my feed.
If I’m using my RSS reader, 20 of them pile up before I get to them.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
That works too
I dropped it in as a FanShot anyway, for when this thread is forgotten in a few days.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
what's a fanshot
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I'm just kidding.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
That was pretty savage to read.
But true. Ouch.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
He sounds like one of us.
Their lineup is essentially tragic
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 6, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Just more eloquent.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
A hell of a lot more.
And that’s both a reflection on him and us.
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
So what you're saying is
typing out FUCK in all capital letters when Jake Fox strikes out on 3 consecutive pitches ISN’T eloquent?
Hmm.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I have.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
First thought: "Hey, I should use the AN power search and look for it, because I can."
Second thought: “Searching for the word ‘fuck’ in pam’s comment history is probably a really bad idea.”
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
You'd return a LOT of comments.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Happy birthday!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Oh, wow, it is your birthday, isn't it!
Happy birthday!
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
That'd be like searching my comment history for "high socks" or something.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 6, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I like swearing! Sheesh.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hey, nowhere did I ever say that was a bad thing.
Actually, my fuck count (ha ha, yeah, yeah) almost reaches yours, surprisingly.
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
I know. I was just feigning indignance.
Coulda used a smiley.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
And, doubt that ;D
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Yeah, sure but he is not to be trusted.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Is Power Search still not working for you?
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 6, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
No. I'm quite bitter about it, too.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
It's being a bit temperamental for me.
But it works if I click “search” a couple extra times after it refuses to load the first time.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 6, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Gasp!
It kinda worked! I can’t use all the search fields I want to and I have to click search a few times, then click on the header of what I want to see a few times, but I found it!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Have you tried shutting down the browser
and restarting it? That often works for me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Mainly you guys. I bring that kind of eloquence every day.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Also, he already moved to his new SI blog?
Screw that. I went to his own site.
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
He moved a couple weeks ago I think.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
His readers had kind of an existential crisis.
It was a little ANish.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
OTOH
It proves we’re not delusional in being the only ones who think Geren is a bad manager…
Honestly, could we truly say that Geren has caused this team the chance at AT LEAST 3, maybe 4, wins this season with his terrible calls?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 7, 2010 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I disagree
There is no way a manager can account for 3-4 more wins at this point. Personally, I think Geren gets a lot of bad press around here. The bullpen is really, really weak right now. Weak bullpens make managers look really, really bad. Not to mention the injury bug to our 2 best starters (arguably) Duke & Anderson. Those 2 guys have killed our bullpen on 3 or 4 separate occasions by having to come out early in games.
by Colorado Fan on Jun 7, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
while this is true......some of the decisions this weekend don't make Geren look good....
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
A strategy A's management has been using for quite some time now
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 7, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Bring up prospects, bench them for a week or so, then send them down again?
Yeah, that’s been our M.O. for a while now.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Per sfgate
Coco Crisp (ribcage strain) is swinging off a tee and might start taking batting practice with the team, but he won’t start a rehab assignment until later this month.
Guess he’ll return in July
Short memory, Nico.
a point about this that I actually haven’t seen made
Actually, you have seen it made.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
sadface. Tommy Everidge.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
How long did it take you to fine that post from late March?
You don't form in the wet sand.
You don't form at all.
Probably not long, as AN Power Search is working for *some* people but NOT for others.
Hmph.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
It didn't work for me at first.
After I was done catching up with all the unread posts, I shut down the browser and re-opened. Then AN Power Search worked fine.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Once I got Power Search up and running,
about five minutes. At first I was searching for Hannahan, because I thought I had mentioned him. After a few other combos also didn’t work, I remembered Everidge. I knew the comment was out there, just a matter of finding the right keywords to search.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Good call!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm happy to be your inspiration, Nico.
;-)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Hello.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
miek
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 6, 2010 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions
they say it's your birthday.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 6, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions
happy birthday, bud.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 6, 2010 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I THINK I MISSED THE PATTERFOX BASHING PARTY.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
The Patterfox Bashing Party is one party that never ends.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 6, 2010 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
TPFE
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
TPFE?
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 6, 2010 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh.
Well we can honestly say it’s an experiment gone awry.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 6, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
YAY!!!
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 6, 2010 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Organizational Depth is Horrid
I’m not sure the Organization can risk losing Fox and Patterson right now. In last month the Rivercats have added John Halama, Matt Watson, Adam Heether, Brett Harper, JC Holt, Ryan Edell, Travis Blackley and Jesus Sanchez. They’ve also “released” Yung Chi Chen (not sure why).
Injuries and Suckitude throughout the system have crippled this organization.
I thought you meant Bryce.
At first I smiled.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 6, 2010 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I was on board right until you said Powell wasn't that great.
How very dare you!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Jake Fox
Couldn’t hit AL pitching with the side of a flaming barn… his swing screams “I’ll keep right on swinging as if every pitch is going to be a fastball down the middle” even as slider after change-up after curveball continue to make him look even more foolish than Nature intends. He has roughly as much chance of achieving even a semblance of mediocrity as I do of being elected Governor of California… we’d be better off with Meg Whitman on the roster.
As for Patterson, his defense is often reminiscent of what it might look like if you put a glove on a bronze statue of Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman and his hitting, if it could be called that with a straight face, makes opposing managers accidentally fill out his name on their lineup cards as “Easy Out”.
Fox is on the roster because the Giant Hulking Mass of Human Vanity called Billy Beane cannot ever admit he made a mistake on a player… it should have been fairly clear that Jake, while possessed of tremendous broadcast booth potential, has about as much chance of making contact with breaking pitches as an avocado does, and that he’s an NL guy, if anything.
Patterson has the advantage of being able to play several positions, albeit with the skill of a three-wheeled tow truck, so the delusion is apparently that he provides the Oakland Athletics’ Pet Holy Grail of “versatility” and is therefore allowed to remain here even in lieu of players who might be able to perform at ONE position with a mere semblance of acuity. He makes his brother Corey seem like the bastard child of Willie Mays and Roberto Clemente by comparison.
I don’t have the first idea what to do about either one of these guys other than to DFA them and have a huge party with geishas and silly string and really good deep dish pizza if anyone is blitheringly idiotic enough to claim them, but I do know we aren’t winning anything significant with them on the 25-man.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
yep, and don't even get me started on Matt Murton
Although he is murdering the ball over in Japan…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 7, 2010 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
That's just because he doesn't have to face Colby Lewis
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
yeah, that wuertz guy...
whoever thought of trading for him.
by vk on Jun 7, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Baseball America's Jim Callis has his final mock draft from this morning
Has us picking Justin O’Conner.
Their Top 10:
1. Nationals: Bryce Harper
2. Pirates: Jameson Taillon
3. Orioles: Manny Machaco
4. Royals: Chris Sale
5. Indians: Michael Choice
6. Diamondbacks: Drew Pomeranz
7. Mets: Zack Cox
8. Astros: Josh Sale
9. Padres: Karsten Whitson
And then us at 10 picking O’Conner.
-I have to say this is one of the more bizarre mock drafts I’ve seen for a few reasons:
1. He has Grandal dalling to 17 saying that the Royals supposed deal with him is just talk and they prefer the college lefty.
2. Covey at 29?!? Yeah, there is no way he falls that far, IMO, even after getting hit hard in a couple consecutive outings.
3. Kolbrin Vitek at 20. I know that some scouts are saying that the talent level (or general lack thereof) is pretty close from 4-44, but I don’t think this’ll cause a guy to fall this far this quickly.
4. Colon not getting drafted in the 1st round. I know some don’t like him as a possible pick, or being a boring pick, but isn’t he still a 1st round guy in a relatively weak draft?
Well here’s the link: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/mock-draft/2010/2610137.html
Discuss.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
Did anyone notice the standings
that has the Rangers atop the division, -.05 games behind the Angels? I like this new math. That puts the A’s at the top of the division, -1 game ahead of the Rangers. Right?
by Chilango on Jun 7, 2010 9:42 AM PDT reply actions
That’s 0.5 games behind, by the way.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 7, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I really do Disagree
and I watch as much A’s ball as any of you guys/gals
First off on Fox- I watched this guy a bit in Iowa and I believe in him. Yes he has sucked it up here, yes he as no real defensive position yet but this guy is a hitter- strike that a rhythm hitter. Fox is someone who came here, saw he had a golden opportunity to be a key player for the first time, and tried to hit 5 run homers every time he came up. This guys is trying to do too much.
I will go further- i believe if you give this guy 500 AB’s he wil put up better numbers than Cust albeit without the OBP- .260-.270, 25-30 HR, 80-90 RBI, .330-.350’ish OBP. He has alot of similarities to someone we just saw- Jason Kubel.
I also believe if Patterson was a regular he would also improve quite a bit. He did some good things when he was pressed into regular duty. His gaffes are ones that young players make.
Why do we tolerate guys like Cust who will never hit over .230, will strike out 200 times, and can play no defense whatsoever while we dream of seeing one of his 20 HR’s and rail against guys with an (unproven) upside?
We do we tolerate Ryan Sweeny- who has been given the best shot of anyone on this roster not named Suzuki and has shown what he will give you .300ish, 5 hr, 80 RBI over a full season playing a position where we need power? I will grant you his above ave D in RF?
It is this same limited view with no eye toward the future that caused the Nation to completely give up on CarGon and Carlos Pena, for example. Not that Fox and EPat come with their hype or credentials.
Yes these two blew the scattered chances they have had here, yes they may be DFA’d but they have the talent to be good players and I think they will be.
That’s my two cents
"The Few, The Proud, The A's Fan" - UncleLeo
Cust has never hit under .230.
Patterson, on the other hand, is a .227 hitter for his career. Also, Fox has a career OBP under .300. I don’t see any reason to think he can sustain a .330-50 clip. You’re right that Sweeney isn’t a particularly good hitter – he’s slightly below average, which still makes him miles better than Patterson and Fox, and a significantly better player when you account for defense.
But he has hit .231
and .240
give EPat or Fox a full season of AB’s and then lets pigeonhole them. Fox had one season in CHI where he got a good amount of playing time but it was sort of all over the place.
"The Few, The Proud, The A's Fan" - UncleLeo
chris carter is hitting .309 vs lefties in sacramento with 6 homers, 14 walks, .447 OBP, .678 slugging, and 1.125 OPS in 75 plate appearances. do the A’s know this??? he would be a solid compliment to cust/gross. can even give daric a night off once in a while. its a no-brainer. the best right handed bat off this bench is sadly landon who beane hates for some reason….
Repeat after me
He. Is. Not. Ready.
You don’t bring Carter up to platoon him against lefties. Not now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
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