$25M And Nothing To Spend It On?
by Nico on Jun 28, 2010 1:48 PM PDT
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PrintI hate it when that happens, don't you?
The A's have a ton of money coming off the books after this season -- exactly a "truckload" -- with the few well-paid players, Eric Chavez ($12M) and Ben Sheets ($10M) under contract only through 2010. The only other players making appreciable salaries (Mark Ellis, Coco Crisp) have club options and may or may be back, meaning that the only players to whom the A's have committed even $3M to beyond this season are Kevin Kouzmanoff and Conor Jackson, each owed $3.1M in 2011.
The A's will have payroll flexibility up the wazoo and might even be required to spend it (if this year's rumors were true about Florida, and if the Ben Sheets signing was in part to avoid an inquiry about what's happening to that revenue sharing money that's supposed to go back into the team).
If the A's want to dip into the free agent market to complete the rebuild, first they will have to convince FAs that just because Furcal, Beltre, and Scutaro didn't want to come to Oakland, well...here's a lot of money, please join! But who?
The slugger the A's so desperately need in the OF doesn't really exist in the 2011 FA pool, where the best position player might be Carl Crawford. How much would you (over)pay to convince Cliff Lee to come here -- and how much would it take? Or should the A's spend too much money on a DH like Adam Dunn, knowing that Chris Carter is on the way? Or is it time for the A's to take on a big contract in a trade, from a team looking to dump said salary, and if so who is that player?
What do you think?
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Jayson Werth
I’m not sure what it would take, but he would be nice to get
Not gonna happen, Boston, NYY or Philly will probably offer way more than we will
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 28, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
They will offer more money than Werth is worth?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Absolutely, one will
It’ll be like Holliday last year. If NY gets Crawford, then Boston will bid against themselves in order to make sure they scoop him up.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 28, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the point there was the pun...
"Life is a horizontal fall" -Jean Cocteau
by King Richard on Jun 28, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I am very slow sometimes...
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 30, 2010 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Hand out contract extensions
Maybe the A’s should try something unorthodox like front loading the contract extensions. Maybe give Kurt Suzuki $9 million the first year, $5 million the 2nd year and $ 3 million in his last year. Then the A’s could spend all the revenue sharing money in 2011 and have plenty of money to spend in 2012 and 2013.
While I love the idea of front-loaded deals
I think the Union frowns upon it. To me, it makes great sense because front-loaded contracts are much, much easier to trade.
Most long-term deals aren’t terrible immediately. Most end up being bad a year or two into it when the money goes up sharply and the player’s ability no longer matches that money. Well, front-loading eliminates that problem (to some extent). If Zito had a front-loaded deal, instead of $18.5, $19, and 20 million due the next three years, he’d be owed $18.5, $14.5, and $10 million over the next three years (ignoring that final option year). Which contract is easier to trade? To eat?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 28, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
The union needs to stop frowning upon frontloaded contracts, at least during the recession.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 28, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Why doesn't the union like it?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I'm confused on that too...
Money is more valuable now than later. It seems like a contract of such team is good for the player.
I’m doing a Masters in Finance,,,,Though I don’t think you need to to realize the benefits of having money earlier.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. It makes no sense why they wouldn’t want front loaded contracts.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 28, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
taxes?
5 million 2010 / 5 million 2010 has different tax implications than 9 million / 1 million?
I doubt it.
Once your taxable income is over ~$350K you’re in the top bracket regardless. I doubt anyone making $1 million in a year gets below that.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Quoth the tallyho.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
You forgot about the multi-state income tax situation
I believe each major league player pays taxes in every state / city with an income tax that they play in.
But you’re probably right, the top bracket and AMT probably make the year it’s earned in irrelevant.
I'm pretty sure $1 million puts you in the top bracket
in every state, too.
If you think rates are going to change, then that’s a different matter. That would be a good reason to push it all to one year or the other.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
yes but the bush tax cuts expire this year
so the top rate goes from 35% in 2010 to 39.6% in 2011.
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 29, 2010 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Not Really True
It’s not true that the Union doesn’t like front-loaded contracts. It’s just that players don’t want to commit for lower salaries during years when they expect to be productive. So they prefer shorter contracts to decreasing value ones.
So if the Giants offered the same money of 7 years at $119M, but reversed the order (20, 19, 18.5, 18.5, 18.5, 14.5, 10), Zito would prefer just the first 5 years for $95M rather than the full 7, since he thinks he will could do better during those last two years. Of course the Giants would lose by reversing the years too, so they would probably offer less value with the “front loaded” contract.
because at the end of a long contract
If you’re only making $5 million, it’s harder to get more money on the next contact than if you were to making $15 million.
Ask me about my squirrel.
This one makes sense
Thanks DMOAS
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 29, 2010 2:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea, but I think if front-loaded contracts where the norm, people's mindsets would change to accommodate it
and it wouldn’t be seen as a negative. It’d just be ‘how things are done.’
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
This is true, sort of.
But you could just take the money you would have front-loaded in the contract and eat that in a trade. It happens all the time and is effectively the same result.
deep pitching class:
lee
webb
de la rosa
vasquez
sheets
bonderman
lilly
garland (mutual option)
few bats, fewer gloves:
crawford
werth
vmart
dunn
konerko
cantu
dlee
pena
renteria
kearns
Id love me some Adam Dunn or Jason Werth.
Id prefer Worth.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Werth is definitely a better option than Dunn because of fielding even though I see a -2.5 for him this year. It’s a small sample size, though. Can Werth still play center field? If Sweeney isn’t dealt, can Werth play in an outfield with Sweeney and Jackson? With Sweeney’s knees the way they are, I doubt he can play center still.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 28, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I dont think Werth can play CF for a full season and not be a liability.
Im not 100% sure on that but Werth is 30 or 31 years old. Id put in him RF. Crisp in CF and let Sweeney/Jackson fight for LF.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
That's a good platoon,
with Jackson slotting in for injury as need be.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Exactly..
And if one just steps up and plays really well and takes over everyday LF then great.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
that's too bad
I was sort of hoping Sweeney would shift to CF on the next good A’s team.
by scatterbrian on Jun 28, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Sweeney is a 4th OF on the next good A's team
Unless he starts doing something other than hitting singles, he’s a 4th OF, pinch runner type. His defense doesn’t justify his bat.
Pretty soon his arbitration inflated salary won't be worth a 4th OF spot
The monster at the end of this blog.
This is good to hear.
I thot AN considered him a lock in the OF. He’s a good 4th OF, imo.
by sf drift king on Jun 29, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
and you are wrong.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah this is not accurate.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty sure the Nats want to keep Dunn, and he wants to stay in WSN.
It makes no sense because he’s built to DH, but I dont think he’s an option for anyone. I’d almost wager money on him being back in WSN next year.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Dunn !!!
Dunn at 1B is just what the A’s need going forward. Barton can DH until something better comes along. Dunn will be the best power/on base slugger available.
by kimo from kauai on Jun 28, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Is he serious I can't tell
"The two of them deserve each other. One's a born liar, the other's convicted."
whats so funny about adding a proven top notch slugger?
Dunn is a consistent power threat on a team that badly lacks power. If you don’t like Dunn at 1b he can be the DH, although I believe that Barton is inadequate as either 1b or DH and better hitting alternatives must be found at each position.
If you really want to make a splash in 2011, consider adding Dunn for 1b and sign Manny Ramirez for DH. A one or two year deal for Ramirez won’t cripple the team for the future.
by kimo from kauai on Jun 29, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
too late
I just read in MLB trade rumors that the White Sox are after Dunn. I guess a GM who is interested in winning will move quickly if Dunn is really available.
by kimo from kauai on Jun 29, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
interested in winning
and mark kotsay, juan pierre, and omar vizquel
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
This is like ten times funnier
when in all caps
he's a free agent after the season
and he’s not going to be offered arbitration.
he won’t help the A’s now.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
*won't help the A's later, i mean
he will help them now, but we’re out of it.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Barton inadequate at 1B??
is this a joke or a typ-o, or do you even watch A’s games?
by sf drift king on Jun 29, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Barton
I was referring to his bat, not his glove. And yes I do watch an occasional game on TV. Too far away in Hawaii to drive to game in person.
by kimo from kauai on Jun 29, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
in that case
I’d agree with you there. I would even consider parting with him in a trade.
by sf drift king on Jun 29, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
just curious
would anybody be interested in re-signing Sheets?
We’re going to need one more starter.
We’ve got to assume if Duke recovers from surgery that we re-sign him to another incentive-laden contract, and we’ll also have Outman back from TJS, but neither is a guarantee to stay healthy or be productive, so that leaves Sheets. What would it take to re-sign him? He hasn’t done much to command $10M again, but he also hasn’t been terrible, and he seems to like playing here. I personally would consider bringing him back if the price was right.
by sf drift king on Jun 29, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I would be. You can never have enough good pitching.
I think he’d get better after a year in the AL.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It is possible that this year is about rebuilding arm strength --> control
and that next year he’ll be closer to his old form. In fact with our luck it’s almost guaranteed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why is Duke an assumption?
The guy is one big drain on the money supply. We have Gio, Cahill, and Anderson. We’ll have Outman back. We’ll have Braden, who will be serviceable. Mazzaro and Ross could even be options by next year. Why bother with Duke? I could see getting Sheets back IF he didn’t cost as much money after such a disappointing season, but not Duke.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I would take Duke in a heartbeat if it was an incentive-based contract.
Not much negative there.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
you mean aside from the fact that he hasn't pitched in 2 years and can't stay healthy and should just retire
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
that list is far from accurate
this one is better
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/2011-mlb-free-agents.html
It also is interesting to look at 2012 as well:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/03/2012-mlb-free-agents.html
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
It looks like Napoli is missing from the 2011 list.
Cots shows the catcher on a one year deal for this year. I’d like to see Napoli DH or play 1B against all LHPs and even some RHPs. Oh yeah, and catch from time-to-time.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 29, 2010 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions
If the service time numbers at Cot's are correct
He doesn’t have nearly enough time to be a free agent. He’ll be arbitration eligible.
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
by thelincolndude on Jun 29, 2010 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay, that makes sense
I thought that he’d played longer than he actually has.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 29, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I had that impression too
He’s a really good hitter. Wish the A’s had found a way to steal him from the Angels back in April when he was hitting under .200 and they benched him for Mathis.
Then Mathis had to go and break his wrist and Scioscia was forced to rediscover how awesome Napoli is.
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
by thelincolndude on Jun 29, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera are on that list!
How bout we go get them?
Yeah, I don’t see anyone to get really excited about on that list. Maybe some fliers here and there, or take a run at Dunn or Werth, but nothing great.
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Jun 28, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd definitely take a flyer on Webb
And would make a run at Werth, home/road splits or not. Looks like he wants way too much though.
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
Why do we need another OF?
Our open spots are 2B & DH, and maybe there’s room for a really good SP, if you want to block Mazzaro & Outman.
I’d also love to trade Sweeney & Braden for something. I wonder what we could get???
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
We need another OFer because we have a bunch of meh ones
A better question would be, “Why acquire Conor Jackson, who’s also not a power-hitting OFer, when that’s all you have?”
What could we get for Sweeney and Braden? Whatever 3 knees and 18 toes are worth.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I would like an answer to that too
Jackson wasnt a need, at all.
Is Sweeney’s value at its highest? Braden’s probably is. Wouldnt hurt to offer them in a package for a power hitting RF, would it?
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Agreed
in I’m not sure why Beane traded for Jackson when he doesn’t ho for power and that’s what the A’s need badly!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Seems like it's a precursor
….For another Billy Trade. I wonder which OF is going.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Buck just started baseball activities
after like a dozen MRIs that didn’t figure anything out, except that he has less soreness than he had a few months ago. I think he’s too broken and rusty as hell, I don’t see him bringing back much of anything.
by scatterbrian on Jun 28, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
John Buck plays for the Royals
I dont know any other Buck in the Oakland organization ;)
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
John Buck plays for the Blue Jays.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 28, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
ahh
he USED to play for the Royals.
How does he have a 530 SLG this year? Jeez….
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Weirdest trade we were a part of
I mean I guess the Astros won because Beltran went berzerk, but there’s no real long term winner here.
A’s trade Mark Teahen & Mike Wood for Octavio Dotel
Astros trade John Buck for Carlos Beltran
Royals trade Carlos Beltran for John Buck, Mark Teahen and Mike Wood & cash
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
You're reading way too much into this
Trading Demel for Jackson is a simple minor upgrade for both teams. A’s are relatively weak in the outfield and relatively strong in relievers. Arizona is the reverse. Jackson became available, so it was an opportunistic trade that makes us slightly better in the present and short-term future. It doesn’t signal any grand plan, it’s just a minor tweak that makes sense regardless of what direction we’re going with the team.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Man what is up with my spelling today?
“Hit for power”…..
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
So if a good player becomes available
you’re sayin we should not go after him, especially if said player could be had for a minor league prospect?
by sf drift king on Jun 29, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
We need to explore all options in free agency and on the trade market. I’d obviously look more toward the offense. Instead of overpaying for Cliff Lee, overpay for a hitter like someone you mentioned in Adam Dunn. If you don’t want to pick up the option on Mark Ellis, look at someone like a Juan Uribe or Orlando Hudson to fill his position. David DeJesus and Jason Kubel could potentially become free agents. Eric Hinske, who is having a great year for the Braves, should be on the market. Look at everything and take on that big contract if that’s what it’s going to take to get a slugger. Since there isn’t that real big slugger on the free agent unless that isn’t a DH, a trade is probably what is going to have to happen.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 28, 2010 2:03 PM PDT reply actions
There's no overpaying here
This is money that needs to be spent, and that will be spent.
I’d pick up the options on Ellis and Crisp. I’d re-sign Sheets, and unless he improves in the second half, can probably have him for $6 million. After that, I wouldn’t worry about positions (i.e. Carter and Taylor) because if they’re ready, then Barton and Sweeney can always be moved. I’d probably pick Dunn because he’s got a longer track record than Werth.
Figure your rotation for 2010, barring TJ for Anderson, would be Anderson, Cahill, Braden, Sheets and Gonzalez, with Mazzaro and Outman as your first choices in case of injury. Beane can play around with trades, but it seems to me that thiis would be a pretty solid line-up, and then if Outman looks like he’s back, consider trading Braden or Sheets during the season depending on the team’s needs.
I’d stay as far away from Eric Hinske as possible. Great years out of the blue are often career years.
Remember that to have a good 5-man rotation
you usually need about 8 starting pitchers. I wouldn’t trade any of those guys.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's a full year away
…so we’re moving into major hypotheticals. If Outman starts pitching like he did in the month before TJ, and Mazzarro crosses that threshhold and becomes a real major league pitcher, I think the A’s can consider offering Sheets or perhaps Braden for someone who can help them in the line-up.
agreed
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 28, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
there is no way we acquire a bat without trading one of our young starters
And, if we trade Carter or Taylor to acquire a different bat, we’ve partly defeated the purpose of trading FOR a bat. The whole point is to have a powerful lineup and good starters. Trading one of the kinda untouchables (Gonzalez, Cahill) to replace him with Mazzaro and get a power bat in return isn’t a giant step down, but is a giant step up from our power vacuum.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 28, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Pitching wins and I don't think you can trade Cahill or Gio
even though Gio is not all there up top yet.
Mazzaro is a big step down from those 2 IMO.
I would think Cahill and Gio are untouchable at this stage.
I'd like to have Uribe
He’s going to hit about 20 HR this year maybe. I don’t know why we didn’t go after him this offseason, actually.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 28, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
It makes more sense to look at potential holes next year
C1 – Suzuki
1B – Barton
2B – ???
3B – Kouz
SS – Pennington (?)
LF – Jackson
CF – Crisp
RF – Sweeney
DH – ???
2 things come to mind
1. Adam Dunn would be AWESOME as a DH for 2 years while Carter plays left field every day in Sacramento.
2. Orlando Hudson is better than Mark Ellis at this point in their respective careers
Yes, it would be super awesome to get Crawford, but he’s probably already got a locker picked out in New York.
Alternatively, teach Barton to play third base this offseason and send Kouzmanoff and Rajai Davis to Milwaukee for Prince Fielder :D
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
I'm actually unsure why Barton stalled at 3B
He has excellent 1B range that should translate symmetrically to 3B and he has a “catcher’s arm.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
the answer
I believe was that he was seen as not having the proper footwork and they planned on him coming during the Chavez years. Couldnt have planned for Chavvy being done for 3+ years
We couldn't? Or Beane wouldn't?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Beane is to blame for Chavez being injured
even when he was playing he played hurt. Chavez isnt to be blamed for not being tough
I don't blame Beane at all for Chavez being injured
I so, however, blame Beane for being utterly blind about it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
so… here what i didn’t realize but nico’s piece seems to point to: chavez has been getting the full amount of his contract all this time? not prorated or something? please set me straight.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Jun 28, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Full amount totaling $66M over 6 years
$12M is due this year.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
12.5Mil next year with a 3 mil buyout.
So hes 9.5 off the books next year.
"Carter's 25-game hitting streak isn't any normal streak. He's 46 for 97 (.474 average) during the run, adding 16 walks and compiling 81 total bases in the process. I'm out of superlatives for what he's doing." - Kevin Goldstein
Good point -- forgot about the buyout.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
geezy. none of the contracts i ever signed said i could still get paid if i didn’t deliver on my end, for any reason. but i guess i never signed for as low as $66M. (that does mean sixty-six monopoly dollars, right?)
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Jun 28, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
If you get hurt performing a job, the job can't just not pay you anymore
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 28, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
that makes sense, but it’s so much money i can’t believe there isn’t some intermediary position to go to. it’s almost like double jeopardy for the team. they paid the money, but don’t get the work they paid for. and because the money’s spent, they can’t hire a suitable replacement. i’m sill in 1st grade on this. it’ll make sense when i think about it more.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Jun 28, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
The intermediary position is for the team
to purchase some sort of insurance policy on the contract. We can only speculate what they may have purchased. The way Chavez has been played suggests to me that the team has a policy which will cover the contract if he has a career-ending injury but not if he’s temporarily hurt nor if he just sucks.
If this is the case, then the team comes out OK if (1) Chavez gets better and actually plays well, or (2) is hurt bad enough to satisfy the insurance policy. The one thing that doesn’t go well for the team is if he keeps going on the DL but never breaks completely, which unfortunately is how it has played out.
I can’t prove this, of course, but it explains why they keep trotting Chavvy out there every time he’s well enough to play, rather than cutting him outright.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Usually insurance will not pay if the player is healthy enough to be on the field but isn’t. The team needs to make a good faith effort to put the player on the field.
Honestly, I was surprised how long it took the A’s to D/L Chavez – he sits, the A’s collect the insurance. It’s better than the alternative – he plays like crap, takes roster spot, and A’s pay the contract.
My assumption is that the policy is not paying
when he’s on the DL either. I assume it only pays if his career is ended by injury. I believe that’s also a standard policy, and it’s more consistent with how the team has used him.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
insurance huh? thanks all. i’m getting it now.
would it be cynical to wonder if the A’s trot him out half-healed hoping that he does finally break?
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Jun 29, 2010 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
They ought to make him clean bathrooms
Fine, we have to honor our contract – here’s a mop and a bucket … don’t hurt yourself, you frail-ass hack.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Yes they can
and then you file a workers comp claim and get pennies on the dollar.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 28, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Do we really want Carter to start his big league career at 26?
He’s already 23, add another two years to play LF in 2011 and 2012 so he can play in 2013? No way. He’s going to be here next year or get traded.
I’m all for Fielder though. They’re going to be looking to dump him.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 28, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
He may need another half year or more after this one
Two years is likely too long, but it’s conceivable that you wait on him another year.
Ask me about my squirrel.
I think they A’s should target Jorge De La Rosa who has had great peripheral stats of late. An incentive-laden contract with Webb could be a good idea. Spending some of that money on young foreign prospects/stars is another good idea. I’d also like to the see the A’s lock up Suzuki and Brett Anderson long-term.
Maybe they can replace the long term contract Anderson just signed
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
...with Folger's Crystals...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Not hard to forget, considering that
Anderson appeared to tweak his elbow signing the extension.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I say trade for the underappreciated Uggla
webb, cantu, dunn, VMart are all great choices. hell, D. Lee is still a great fielding 1B but i think Uggla would be great. he’d up the offense at a position that isnt great for it and compensate for the OF
Uggla has been one of my targets for a while
But he’s such a bad 2Bman I’m not sure he’s worth playing there. I don’t know if he could hack it at 3B or in LF.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Chavez was an awful 3B before the A's taught him
and he won 6 gold gloves, once upon a time. And Hatteberg was a catcher. though, that may have been a different organization.
But the guy who taught him is now managing in Texas
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 28, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh you mean managing a team that is exceeding expectations
and leading the AL West?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Because that's due to Wash
He just chose not to have them exceed expectations the last two years because he didn’t feel like going to the play-offs yet. All about building suspense.
Myth
Saw Chavez lots in Visalia. He was above average from the start. Always had very good range and very quick reflexes.
yes, he had the tools
but not the discipline, didnt stay down on balls, couldnt take anything off throws to make them accurate etc.
You could always exercise Ellis' option for 2011 ( a smart move I think considering Ellis' glove makes him worth at least one more year 0
and trade for Uggla and make him a DH and a backup 2B man. Now you just have to figure out a trade scenario that works for Florida and the A’s.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
then you kind of lose his value offensively
by putting him on defense…..which I would think the A’s would want to avoid.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Anyone know if there's an International player
In the caliber of a Chapman that the A’s can spend money on and hope for a bright future?
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 2:19 PM PDT reply actions
Maybe a little older
and less of a gamble…..
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a great question
It’s definitely an area the A’s might be planning to spend appreciable money this off-season.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
its a good theory, planning for the future
but its kind of the same as always planning for D-day. Y2K was great in theory but busted in practice. the way to wins is balance the money in development and big league performance.
Oftentimes, intl signings
are ready now (Ichiro, Matsui, Iwamura) if not just a year away (Chapman).
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
actually, most of the recent cuban signings are in AA or lower
and Japan has a posting system which is ridiculous and a waste of money
Is the posting for all players, or only the ones who are in contract?
I would think that a free agent player could sign anywhere.
by LoneStranger on Jun 28, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think posting is only for players who are under contract.
But under the Japanese system it takes a long time to become a free agent, most truly good players won’t wait that long to take a chance at MLB.
Depends on the player.
and Japan has a posting system which is ridiculous and a waste of money
I mean, yeah, Dice-K’s posting fee was absurd, but there are lots of players that ended up bargains for what they got.
Ichiro’s initial contract was 3/14 and his posting fee was 13MM. (he’s signed a few bigger contracts since then). Even at 3/27, Ichiro was a pretty big bargain. Same goes for Aki Iwamura before he got hurt.
And lots of players don’t have posting fees, but they’re older.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I read about someone
A Japanese CFer with good OBA but limited power.
Funny, I was just thinking about this today
I had been excited that the A’s were actually going to have some salary space to make impact moves in the off-season but this does not appear to be a very good year for free agents. Crawford and Werth look like the only position players who could be an impact addition and I think they are going to get overpaid by somebody. Should be interesting to see what happens because it’s getting about time for Beane to make something out of his rebuilding plan.
Keep in mind how badly we were snubbed last offseason too.
No one wants to play here unless we overpay.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
One-year overpays are really no big deal though
The Sheets contract has in no way limited the A’s in any way whatsoever.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 28, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
That is true, I have no issue with 1 year overpays either, like Manny & Hudson.
Both those 2 would buy more time for Carter, Taylor, Weeks & Cardenas.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
even then,
If a big market team is interested there is nothing we will realistly pay to convince him to come here…
Rajai Davis is quicker than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
Maybe we should target the anti-social, scared of the media type player.
The new weakness in the market!
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Pick up Chavez's Option and
Trade for Kerry Woods,,,,
That will give us two spots for the DL and take 22 Million. The extra 3 million we can use on Eckstein or Aaron Miles.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Do you think Albert Belle would be willing to come out of retirement for 3 million?
Ask me about my squirrel.
Turns out no....
But Ricky Bell of Bell Biv DeVoe will for 2 Million.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 29, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Hell. No.
This team should try to throw some more money down and sign Bedard.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 29, 2010 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions
No argument on giving Cliff Lee all the money we can, but he probably wont be here.
Manny & O-Dawg would make this team look NICE though. Im all for trading Sweeney, Braden and Crisp for depth too.
1B: Barton
2B: Hudson
SS: Pennington
3B: Kouzmanoff
C: Suzuki
LF: Jackson
CF: Davis
RF: Sweeney
DH: Ramirez
SP: Lee (Im dreaming)-Anderson-Cahill-Gonzalez-Braden-Mazzaro(reality)
RP: Bailey-Ziegler-Wuertz-Devine-Outman-Kilby
These threads are fun, but honestly, we offered Chapman, Scutaro & Beltre more money and years and they all told us to GTFO. Why would it stand to reason that anyone would sign here unless we drastically overpaid for them, like we did with Sheets & Crisp?
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I thought Chapman didn't snub us....
He actually got more money from the Reds and we were actually second on his list. But the point is totally correct.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
actually in interviews chapman said it was because Reds' staf spoke more spanish
he said that was a bigger determinate than the few mill more
Well he said we were second out of
A bunch of teams. I actually think we can get a guy like that. I do however think PL78 point about having to over pay is totally what’s going to have to happen though. Which blows!
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Chapman is clearly an idiot.
He turned down a few million dollars because the Reds staff spoke more Spanish? Like he couldn’t have hired an interpreter until he got a hang of English?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I thought it was pretty well known that the Reds offered more money than the A's
We were right there with them for a while but they were willing to go higher. I’m pretty sure Forst came out and said this in an interview.
I'm glad that Chapman ended up in the National League
where he’ll have more opportunity to hit.
I’m looking forward to seeing all the columnists wax poetic the first time he hits one out of the park.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
"Aroldis swings dat good?"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nick will understand.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I cant find anything online
other than the Jays offered him 3/23 and he took 5/30. I assume we were in between those then? I seem to remember we offered the same or more though….
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
This ESPN articles says Reds outbid everyone else
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2010/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=4938104
It should makes us feel a little bit better about the A’s chances with international players.
by OnlybuyBeaneJerseys on Jun 28, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn't someone offer Ynoa more?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Yes, but the A's are actually good at developing pitchers
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Unlike Chapman, who plays... ?
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" -Bill Watterson
Who plays "pay me the most money cause I'm not 17"
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Yes
Texas came in with a last minute offer of ~ $5 million but the Ynoa family felt more comfortable with the A’s organization. Beane and Co. had been talking to the family for months and developed a relationship which ultimately trumped the extra cash Texas offered.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I am so against this Manny idea
I’m fine with taking a chance on Hudson, but Manny is on the decline. Let the idea go man.
Ask me about my squirrel.
There is absolutely nothing showing he will decline to a sub-850 OPS hitter. Only your opinion.
In fact there is more to show that he will produce even better then he right now as a DH without playing in LF everyday. Im sticking to this being our best option to “hold” the DH spot until Carter is ready.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
If all the A's prospects pan out
They wouldn’t need to spend any money in the off-season.
However, I’m more afraid of them getting injured than not panning out.
That is just not an exciting list at all
If you put a gun to my head and made me decide today, I would pick up options on both Ellis and Crisp. I’d also do 1 year deals on Duke and Sheets. And that would make 2011 essentially a reboot of 2010. That doesn’t excite me at all. I’m bummed now.
The glare was not practiced. I would get into the game situations, and when that happens, there comes a level of concentration that most can only imagine but can never achieve. You become what you are doing, and that is what you see on my face. -Dave Stewart
by Hegenberger Road on Jun 28, 2010 3:26 PM PDT reply actions
One of these days
Could be as soon as next year, Cuba wll open up.
I was talking with a writer who’d spent some time in Cuba watching players there. He says there are some 300 players in the league, about half of whom are as good, if not better, than major leaguers in this country. So at a minimum you’re talking about 50-100 players (at a minimum if he’s right) who would make it into the majors immediately.
He claims that Chapman isn’t anywhere near one of the best pitchers in Cuba. And that El Duque was way over the hill when he arrived in the States.
Ive heard that too
Cuba lives baseball down there. They care about it even more than Japan and here.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
The writer
..is a journalist named Mark Kurlansky, whose latest book is “The Eastern Stars” How Baseball Changed the Dominican Town of San Pedro de Macoris." The book does a good job of explaining baseball in the Dominican and its relationship to the United States. (the appendix, which tells the history of San Pedro players, is rife with errors). I would also strongly recommend the movie “Sugar.”
If Kurlansky is right, and he told me that he spent quite a bit of time watching Dominican baseball as well as baseball in Cuba, then MLB will be really changed once the embardo ends, and it is going to end sooner rather than later. He also said that he’d recommend San Pedro as a great place to vacation: most of the tourists stay at the resorts and don’t venture into town. But if you do go into town, you’ll see a beautiful (though poverty-stricken) community and you’ll see some amazing amateur baseball.
The Bill "spaceman" Lee documentary goes into great detail on it too.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
once again i’m unclear on the details and have to ask: is the US embargo keeping cuban players in cuba? or is cuba? i mean, i’ve heard of “defectors” rather than “illegal immigrants” from cuba.
and on the topic of tourism, doesn’t cuba get as much tourism as it can handle from europe and america (the continent) already? so cuba would need a different incentive to open up and let players leave, right?
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Jun 28, 2010 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it goes something like this.
The U.S. embargo prevents American businesses from hiring Cuban citizens. They can hire ex-Cubans, such as Andorran citizen Aroldis Chapman. The Cuban government has restricted the ability of Cubans to become ex-Cubans. Those few who are let out are known as defectors. Defecting can be difficult and/or dangerous, and even if you succeed, you’ve given up most ties to your home and family, so it’s not an attractive option for most players.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
and defectors have to reach land
those picked up in the water are given back
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
I wonder how much land they have to reach.
Do they have to be able to stand with their head above the water? Do they have to go above the water line on the beach? Or is it just a certain distance from the water line?
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
What makes you think Cuba will open up next year?
Seems unlikely.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Castro might be dead soon,
but I don’t think his brother is radically different.
by LoneStranger on Jun 28, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
The pressure to keep the embargo is loosening
At this point, given that Vietnam is now a tourism country, that Russia is capitalist, that members of Eastern Europe have joined the Common Market and/or NATO, you have to wonder what’s keeping the embargo going. The staunch anti-Castro Cubans who remember prior to 1959 are dying out, and the younger generation wants to reconnect with their native land.
Frankly, without the Soviet Union around, there isn’t a hell of a lot of reason to have an embargo with Cuba. The United States’ primary enemy is Islamism, and it’s not like Cuba’s Islamist.
The question isn’t “if” any more, it’s “when,” though it may be true that it can’t happen until after Fidel dies. But who knows? There’s plenty of money to be made in Havana through tourism. Really, if you can go right now on a guided tour of the Viet Cong caves led by former guerrillas, why shouldn’t Cuba open up?
Hope I'm not risking a CGV
But I think the embargo is pretty much just collective punishment at this point.
Its the only thing the U.S. can do to hit it w/ a stick- nothing else has worked, the island keeps chugging along.
I think it would have to be after Fidel dies just so he can't get propped up on a balcony and twist it around
and say how he defeated the American Pigdogs!
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Troy Glaus and a snow cone machine
We get a guy to DH, and a guy to hand out snow cones!
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
I love it!!!
Pass on Glaus, though.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I hope they overspend for FAs.
I know they have been trying and i guess that all you can do, but if the As gave Dunn a contract he can’t live up to then big deal… He would still be the best bat in the lineup. But there’s very little that can be done. The FAs aren’t that great and the As don’t have much to trade. We really need carter and Taylor to play well everyday in the bigs next year.
I don't see any hitters on the FA list worth overpaying.
Ask me about my squirrel.
It could be worse, a lot worse
In This Week in Real Pirateball, Real Pirate Garbage Bag Shirt, Real Pirate Boxhat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DybEVfxu_o
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
either they’ve been reading our game threads, or the pirates just naturally call for the benny hill theme.
don't care if i ever get back.
by AV on Jun 28, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
If Sheets stays with the team all season and pitches reasonably well down the stretch, then I’d be all for offering him another year or two at like $8 million a pop.
I’d also look at bringing Dontrelle back to his roots in Oaktown…probably with just a minor league deal or split contract kind of thing. The team might be able to straighten him out and turn him into a useful reliever.
None of the free agent hitters interest me all that much. I think Beane should inquire on Prince Fielder, although I wouldn’t want to do the Holliday deal 2.0 where a future star is sent over for one year of a guy in his prime.
Grady Sizemore might be worth looking into as well.
If Sheets gets traded or goes somewhere else, I’d take a look at Aaron Harang as a Plan B as an innings-eater/token veteran and/or give it another go with Duke on a REALLY low base + incentives deal.
I’m wondering if Jason Bartlett or JJ Hardy would be made available in their final year(s) of arbitration.
I’d probably pick-up the options on Crisp and Ellis too.
Maybe inquire on Matt Kemp if the Dodgers are really frustrated with him?
Just in general, with that much payroll flexibility, I think Beane should be making a ton of calls both this summer and this winter. I think it would be awesome if he was super aggressive and maybe nabbed Fielder THIS summer so that he could have him the rest of this season and into next. What do you think it would take? Maybe Mazzaro + another piece or two?
I'm never gonna do it without the fez on!
Jimmy Rollins, Oakland native is coming up to the end of his deal too.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
The A's could also inquire about BJ Upton
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yes, our DH can do that!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Zambrano can probably out perform any of our DHs
Speaking of him, I was listening n the radio about Zambrano and the consensus is that he is untradeable. Can’t say I disagree either.
Guy is a nut job
For Fielder?
Aw man, you’re talking at least Mazzaro, Sweeney, Tyson Ross, maybe even Barton, and ++++?.
Hell, I don’t know but would it be worth it for one and a half seasons of Fielder? Would there be a window to sign an extension? I would have to insist on it if I were Beane…..even then his future is really as a DH, which is cool, but if Barton is in that deal then does Careter now convert to 1st base?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
the problem with Fielder
is not what he will cost in players, but where he will play. Most likely he’s a DH in the near future, and the A’s are not a team that can afford for their highest paid players to only be able to help on one side of the ball. Similar to the high-paid closer, expensive DHs are just not a luxury the A’s can afford.
by scatterbrian on Jun 28, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
How so?
They have young, cost-controlled players all over the diamond, and have a severe lack of power and an opening at DH at years end. Explain how they cannot afford to buy a DH.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
They can afford a player like Fielder
in the sense that they have the money to do so. He’s making $11M this year in only his second arb season, so he’s probably looking at ~$15M next season. The A’s could certainly do that. But if they’re going to spend, it’s just not wise to stick all your eggs in one basket, especially when that basket has the hallmarks of one that will not age well. It’s a risky model, and Fielder’s big body makes it even more risky.
by scatterbrian on Jun 29, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
FA DH’s shouldnt get long term contracts. Fielder I’d give a max of 3 years to. Id rather just plug the hole with Manny until Carter finally blooms. I think thats a great idea.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I would be fine with that.
I’d grumble a little, maybe. But I’d sure as hell give him a standing O when he knocks his first bomb.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I would be too
Lance Berkman also piques my curiosity. He’s having a down year, but he’s almost four years younger and isn’t a Boras client, and he can still fake it on D.
Added bonus: Fat Elvis is a kickass nickname.
by scatterbrian on Jun 29, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Im wary of lifetime NLers though.
Manny at least has a career 950+ OPS at the pitchers-heavy of the Coli, plus he’s spent 92% of his career in the AL.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
and you would get outbid at 3 years
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Playing on one side of the ball has nothing to do with it. It’s a matter of marginal $/marginal win, and quite simply the that formula strongly favors adding a hitter. The A’s play decent enough defense, and they can pitch, so it’s a lot harder to upgrade that than their terrible, terrible offense.
It's like the A's are a guy with an OK paying job
He doesn’t have a car, but gets by with buses and BART. He still has a tube TV that sort of buzzes and is getting a weird discoloration on one side of the screen, but it has a big screen and still works. He’s got a regular XBox, and even though he can’t get any new games for it, she still plays his DVDs. And he still records his TV shows on VHS. He has dial-up internet access, which is still the same internet as everyone else, just less powerful. His cell phone gets poor reception in his apartment, but works outside on the sidewalk and pretty much anywhere else. He’s got a decent new pair of work shoes he’s still breaking in, but there are already signs of wear on the corners where the foot flexes. In short, he’s got a lot of areas where he can improve his circumstances. A small- to mid-market team making a DH their highest paid player would be similar to this guy buying a new BMW.
by scatterbrian on Jun 29, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The BMW would save wear and tear on his shoes.
TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
damn you Stranger!
so much for analogies….
All walks and no homers makes Jack a dull DH.
by scatterbrian on Jun 29, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea, complicated analogies are easier to break down.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
they’re kind of like….. never mind.
All walks and no homers makes Jack a dull DH.
by scatterbrian on Jun 29, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Question
Isn’t it against the rules to re-sign a player at a lower salary than the previous year? Or something that the union heavily frowns upon? I seem to remember something along those lines.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 28, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
There's a percent decline they can take in arbitration
But other than that there’s no rules other than the minimum wage.
Ask me about my squirrel.
That's what it was
Thanks.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 28, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Dontrelle as a reliever scares me
The last thing you want is a reliever to come in and walk people.
Also – is Fielder really available?
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 28, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he is.
Braun isnt getting any better at playing defense, and is a better hitter than Prince.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
i just don't think it's within the realm of the possible to trade for guys like that
You aren’t going to get a guy like Grady Sizemore or Prince Fielder without giving up a prime prospect. The A’s gave up Carlos Gonzalez to get one season of Holliday. And that clearly wasn’t an overpay, as the Cardinals later gave up Brett Wallace to get half a season of Holliday.
Teams just don’t give up young stars like that without getting really, really significant prospects in return. This Mazzaro + some other stuff talk is pure fantasy (he was offered as an option for getting Mark Reynolds in another thread). If you’re talking about trading for a guy like Sizemore or Fielder, you have to start with Carter or Taylor and add to that.
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
by thelincolndude on Jun 28, 2010 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That might actually make them less likely to trade him
They’re not going to sell low on a franchise player just because he got injured this year.
Compare to the Curtis Granderson deal. He and Edwin Jackson netted the Tigers Scherzer, Schlereth, Coke, and Austin Jackson. And this was after a down year for Granderson.
How much of that haul was for Granderson and how much for E. Jackson? Not sure, but Sizemore is better and younger than Granderson. That’s the type of package that needs to be in the discussion.
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
by thelincolndude on Jun 28, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure why they would sell low on him.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I wonder what the actual asking price would be for Choo
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't want nobody but choo
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 28, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Aw, that's sweet. You like Nico.
You should send him that in a love letter…
or better yet,
one of those kids’ Valentine’s cards with a picture of a train on it.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 28, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Like this one
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 28, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice!
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 28, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
More credit should to xbox
He posts that picture whenever possible.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 28, 2010 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
A lot depends on his service in Korea
He has to do 2 years before age 30 and they haven’t waived it yet. He ssays he has a plan, but I would sure want that cleared up before dealing for him.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jun 28, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
they did it for Chan ho park, I can't see any reason not to do it for Choo
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Well, they have not done so to date.
Apparently if he plays in the Asian Games this winter (They should, the Japanese do not use their pros in the tournament) and they win the gold, they will waive it for him. Beyond that, he has to apply for US citizenship or just not return to Korea, both of which he does not want to do to alienate his country.
It is a real issue for him and he has admitted in the media it is hanging over his head some, but he is trying not to stress or think about it.
And Park was only given a reprieve because he pitched when they won the Asian Games. it was waived after they got the Gold Medal.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jun 28, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I've wondered the same
Choo would be dynamite, but he’s not going to be a free agent until 2014, so all them cost-controlled years would come at a price.
And why the hell is he not being called Big League Choo?
All walks and no homers makes Jack a dull DH.
by scatterbrian on Jun 29, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't understand the Prince Fielder love
What does he have that can’t be more cheaply purchased through Adam Dunn?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Fielder has posted wOBAs of .420 twice in the last 4 years and is 26. Dunn has posted wOBAs consistently in the .390 range, and is 30. Basically, it boils down to a younger player who has demonstrated higher levels of performance, so there’s a slightly better chance that Fielder could be the better player. However, this all depends on how you feel about his body habitus. Personally, despite lacking any real evidence, I would take Dunn just from a general health standpoint.
Is 30 points of wOBA worth the prospects?
Dunn is 30 but all he is going to do is cost you money. Fielder hits FA after 2011, he’s going to cost approximately the same amount of cash (or more, certainly not less) than Dunn and the A’s would have to give up quality prospects to acquire him. He’s a Boras client, so the only way he signs an extension with Oakland is if the A’s pay him FA value before he hits the open market. You’re looking at a probable 7 year deal to keep Fielder in wherever his new home may be.
Even if we set aside the body issue, I’m not seeing how Fielder makes a better investment than Dunn especially since there is little guarantee that he’d stay in Oakland beyond next year.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Is Dunn a type-A FA?
The prospects vs. 1st round draft pick would even things up a lot.
But I agree, I still take Dunn.
He'll be type A, but he'll accept arb if offered
He makes 12MM this year, If he makes Type A, and is offered arb, he will almost inevitably accept.
I think that would be smart for the Nats to do, as having Dunn at 13-15MM for one year isn’t a bad thing and you’re not committing multiple years.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
The body issue
Probably isn’t that big of an issue anymore. Isn’t he vegan now?
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 29, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Vegetarian, evidently
Either way though, switching to a vegan/vegetarian diet doesn’t guarantee weight loss. He’s currently listed at 268-270, which will likely take a toll on his knees and back.
All walks and no homers makes Jack a dull DH.
by scatterbrian on Jun 29, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant Carter, sorry.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I'll just enter dreamland here...
Cliff Lee: 5/$80MM
Jayson Werth: 4/$60MM
Orlando Hudson: 2/$14MM
Manny Ramirez: 1/$9MM
Trade Pennington, Jackson & Outman for Jimmy Rollins
Trade Mazzaro, Ross & Carter for Fielder
1B: Daric Barton
2B: Orlando Hudson
SS: Jimmy Rollins
3B: Kevin Kouzmanoff
C: Kurt Suzuki
LF: Manny Ramirez
CF: Jayson Werth
RF: Ryan Sweeney
DH: Prince Fielder
SP: Cliff Lee-Brett Anderson-Trevor Cahill-Gio Gonzalez-Dallas Braden
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Last I heard
Lee was looking for something in the $100MM range. Whether he gets it or not is another issue entirely.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 28, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I would lust love desire want a shortstop with some pop
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 28, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Like JJ Hardy?
(.217, 3 HRs)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Next you will want
Nancy JD Drew
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 28, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
epic Hardy fail
even more than Ed’s clothes.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Yeah I dont think the market will let anyone go into the 100MM/20MM+ a year range again.
The recession finally started effecting pro sports as of 1-2 years ago.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
FAIL Youre committing many magnitudes more money than we have
Youre spending $47m next year when we really only have $25
Also you are underpaying Werth and Lee
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I said DREAMLAND, damnit!
As in “I’m dreaming” that we have more than $25MM a year and we get favorable deals (although I dont see Werth+Lee getting too much more than that. The market is going to use Bay as a comp for Werth, and Lee, while great, isnt getting $20+MM a year nor $100+MM).
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Heh. Lackey's contract is going to be the jumping off point for Lee.
Since he’s worlds better, 5/85 isn’t gonna get Lee.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
I dont see Lee getting 5/100 or 4/80 though.
The market keeps shrinking and seeing how there’s like 30 new potential Hall Of Famers this year who are all under 22 in the game who dont cost anything, I think thats the wave of the future. Almost all teams are looking for the 6 years of cost-control excellence over the 3-6 years of potential fail and decline years. I mean Ive never said I wanted Beane to sign any FA to a 4+ year long deal, there imply arent enough FA’s who warrant that, but overpaying on a 1 year deal is perfectly fine by me.
But then again as long as Sabean runs a team, you will see said potential HOF catchers purposely blocked by a FA for no reason whatsoever, so there are outliers. Plus, the recession doesnt effect the Yankees. Couple of notes to think about when talking about the market.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
well if you are dreaming then actually evaluate the contracts at real levels since in your dream we have infinite resources
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
if he's dreaming be realistic?
makes sense
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
it makes no sense to to say I have 700 trillion dollars and im going to get a brand new lamborgini for 15k
if you have infinite resources then you pay cost.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Some people like to dream up 'what if' scenarios that are only a little stretch from reality.
Kinda like dreaming if I was at the plate during BP. Sure, I could dream that I hit one to the moon, but just being able to knock one a few feet over dead center would be cool.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats exactly what Im saying.
Its a dream/what if scenario that isnt likely to be true. Its not fun to pretend a bunch of things that absolutely cannot happen, like trading Raj for Pujols. Its more fun to make up realistic trades and signings.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
oh brother
you are spending too much time thinking about something I admittedly put no thought into. try again.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Im dreaming but its realistic dreams.
Everything in my post could happen if things fall our way. Seeing how its dreamland though, the odds of that happening are slim.
Also, Lew has said he is open to spending as much as Beane wants. Seeing as Beane is bad at spending lots of dough, its not a favorable move to play to his weakness and not his strengths (buying low, finding undervalued players).
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Man Ram
I would spend 10 mil on Manny being Manny
If he wants to run across the pitcher's mound, tell him to go do laps in the bullpen - pepe
I would, too
but manny being manny is not being offered. think “manny being cust”. that’s what your $10M will get you.
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 28, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
You do realize that Manny is hitting .307/.398/.508 this year with a k-rate under 20% right? Even if you account for the switch to the NL that does not even resemble Cust in the slightest sense.
His numbers have gone up a bit in the last week or so
But reports I’ve seen have said his bat speed is slower and he’s 38 right now. The way he’s trending I honestly won’t be surprised if he’s .OPSing around .800 next year.
Ask me about my squirrel.
I wish Cust was OPSing around .800
I mean, I understand that Manny is in his decline phase and is not the same MVP type player he was a while ago but he is declining from a very high peak, he still has some value.
Really wish you would link these "reports" about Manny you keep referencing.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
well, i'm thinking old cust, not new cust
manny’s last full year in the AL was pretty bad, and we know where his #‘s came from the following year. this year, he’s playing for a contract. next year, he won’t be.
i’m thinking you take .50 off the SLG for the AL, .50 for the contract. .800 OPS. Still out best hitter, of course . . .
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 28, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm still skeptical
Yea he was only good and not awesome in 2007 but you seem to be using assumptions and conjecture as an excuse to cherry pick his worst statistical season in 15 years and take the most pessimistic view possible.
manny’s last full year in the AL was pretty bad
what in the hell are you talking about? he had an 881 OPS in 07 and then a 926 in 08 before being traded to the NL. “pretty bad” is false. “Not Hall Of Fame/best player of all time-like” is a better description, not “pretty bad”.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
dude
you are WAY too sensitive about this manny thing.
I happen to agree with you that Manny would be our best hitter. He’s an upgrade over anything we have.
But getting manny will require a multiyear, multimillion dollar deal. He is not worth it now, and he will be less worth it when he’s 40, and he’s not good enough to put us over the top while blocking a player who could.
BTW just because I didn’t clarify “pretty bad” with “I don’t mean pretty bad as in an average hitter in the A’s lineup, I just mean pretty bad relative to his past numbers, and signaling a downturn that was masked by steroids and a move to the NL but which must ultimately continue due to age or his next drug test” doesn’t mean I actually think Manny is bad.
I THINK HE’S GOOD. HE’S BETTER THAN CUST.
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 29, 2010 3:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm thinking that "Manny being Cust"
refers to the fact that every time his name is mentioned on AN it turns into a big argument about whether he’s good or bad.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Okay, then dont ever use "bad" to describe his performance unless you qualify it with "for him"
You are just completely off about the market too:
But getting manny will require a multiyear, multimillion dollar deal. He is not worth it now, and he will be less worth it when he’s 40, and he’s not good enough to put us over the top while blocking a player who could.
Manny is not getting a long term deal. Gammons said he’d be lucky to get a $6MM 1 year deal. Can we all agree that is totally our style, and after watching Vlad convert to a FT DH with great success (although his H/R splits are absurd) that getting Manny for 1 year is a great move? It doesnt block anyone, it provides the offense we so sorely need and its Manny, he’s hilarious and one of the best hitters ever. I get sensitive about this because its such a minor move that people make out to be WAY over the top bad, when its completely the opposite. You would think by reading DMOAS’s posts that signing him, even to a 1 year deal, would guarantee a 100 loss season. That’s how bizarre these anti-manny posts are. People seem to HATE the dude….I happen to think the opposite.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
you don't get what I'm saying
and that’s OK, I’ll grant that I haven’t been a model of clarity and consistency.
I’ll try to be clear.
I don’t hate Manny at all. I actually KNOW Manny. I’ve met him. He’s given me game tickets. More than once. He’s given my son batting tips. My son hit a homer the next day. I LOVE MANNY RAMIREZ.
Even with his steroid issues and lackadaisacal play on the field and the basepaths, Manny should be a first ballot hall of famer.
Manny would make the A’s better. I’ll bet DMOAS agrees. But, while it’s fashionable to say that there won’t be big multiyear deals for aging sluggers, I know he wants a multiyear deal, and I expect someone will want Manny badly enough to get him. The market is not set by the average demand but rather by the marginal demand. If he continues to produce and stays healthy, he will get a multiyear deal. (And if he doesn’t even you won’t want him).
Would I want the A’s to take a Manny for 1 yr $6M? Sure, if I thought he’d be available most of the time and OPS over 900, definitely. I’m quite skeptical, though. A 2yr deal? No.
My good buddy Manny, who would make the A’s better, is a late 30’s ‘roid guy on the downslope of his career going from the NL to the AL. He will get worse every year from here on. He’s not worth a long term deal. If we can steal him for a year, great. Otherwise, no.
Your third place Oakland A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Jun 29, 2010 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions
length of contract is going to be a huge issue
And probably makes it impossible for the A’s to sign Cliff Lee, Jayson Werth, or Carl Crawford. Crawford’s going to get an offer of, what, 6/90 from the Yankees? At least? Jayson Werth also probably gets offered a similar contract to what Jason Bay got. Who knows what’ll happen with Lee. He’s been undervalued in trades twice already. He’s really amazing though, and it seems like it would take at least a 5 or 6 year deal to sign him, probably for 15+ million per year. Also, draft pick compensation?
Manny or Adam Dunn to fill the DH role while Carter gets another year in AAA seem like pretty good options (Manny’s a risk, but if he weren’t someone would beat the A’s with a 3-year deal). I really like the idea of taking a gamble on Webb.
If taking another team’s salary dump becomes an option, how about Magglio Ordonez? He’s likely to have his 2011, $15 million option vest, and the Tigers have dumped salary recently. Probably wouldn’t take much to get him if the A’s paid the whole salary. Best of all, no Holliday-type worries since he’s in an AL hitters park already. He does have a no-trade clause.
Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here.
I'd be sick to my stomaach if I were a Phillies fan right now.
You really dont want to see what J.C. Ramirez, Phillippe Aumont and Tyson Gillies are doing in the minors right now. Think our Huddy trade was bad?
Whats worse, the Phillies are only 3 games out….they’d be in first if they had Lee instead of Kendrick or Blanton. There was absolutely no reason for them to trade Cliff Lee, so pointless and unnecessary. They threw away a division with that one move.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
This has been mightly talked up
That they “had” to trade Lee as a salary dump, but after trading his ~$9M salary, they took on close to $9M in contracts (Polanco and a Baez), so the question is really if you prefer Lee or Polanco + Baez. I know that I prefer Lee, clearly Ruben Amaro liked the latter, but let’s not claim they “had” to do it for budget reasons.
by el generico on Jun 28, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah it was just a terrible move.
They were sweating that their cupboard was bare with prospects and thought they got 3 good ones from Seattle, only problem was, they werent that good looking then and they arent now. The Phillies are bathing in money too, there just was no reason for that deal except for prospect-envy.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Er, you just ignoring the fact that they traded Lee and got Halladay?
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Those trades were not connected though.
They were just made on the same day.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
A couple things
1. Spend $3-7 MM on 1-2 relievers.
Options: Grant Balfour, Matt Guerrier, or another solid righty. I know Beane can pull relievers out his ass, but we need someone who can come in, give 60-70 IP, and not fall apart monumentally.
2. Trade for Uggla.
-Dunno what you get with his defense year to year, but he could anchor the lineup as a sure fire 30 HR middle of the order threat.
3. Sign a Lefty DH to platoon with Chris Carter.
-There is no denying that Carter could come in and mash lefties in the bigs RIGHT NOW, so slowly wean him into the bigs by sharing DH duties with a guy like Jim Thome or Matsui. If people are worried about Carter not playing everyday, give him time at 1st and RF or LF as well.
4. Resign Ben Sheets if the price is right.
- I know a lot of people will disagree with this idea, but Sheets is starting to look better than he did the first couple months of the season. I also think the leadership he provides to the staff has gone somewhat overlooked this season. I know many won’t agree with this, but I think he has aided in the remarkable improvement coming from Cahill and Gio this year. If Sheets will resign for a 2/ $15M type deal (I’ll go up to $20), then I wouldn’t be opposed to it.
-So Uggla at around $10, let’s say Thome at $2-3, a righty reliever at $4, and Sheets at $8 comes out to $25, and would improve the offense and bullpen considerably, as the rotation gets better and more experienced.
Thoughts?
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
dont spend money on RP's
they’re too volatile and you can get the same or better performance from the scrap heap.
I wouldn't do a DH platoon
That’s two players combining for no defense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yea, a DH platoon is almost always a bad idea
I also don’t like the idea of weaning him slowly by not letting him work on one of his biggest flaws. When you bring Carter up you have to at least give him the chance to hit everyday. Giving him a season off from facing righties probably isn’t the best way to bring him along.
Well, that's not exactly what I meant
The idea is that Carter will be the DH when we face lefties, with a guy like Thome playing DH when we face righties, and finding somewhere in the field for Carter to play when righties are pitching. Thome is still killing righties and he’ll most likely come way cheaper than the rest of the older DH projects we’ve signed in the past few years, with a better history of producing.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 28, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know how that is slowly weaning him in
but the only position he should probably be playing at the big leagues is first base so playing him there would mean sitting Barton against righties.
By slowly weaning him
Have him play 4 or 5 days a week to start and always start against lefties, but not as much versus righties.
And if Jack Cust can play the outfield for the A’s, then Chris Carter will find himself out there once in a while…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 28, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
FYI
Braden is out of the game today according to Slusser. Need to update GOG question #4 or just call it zero for everyone.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Just saw this
I’m gonna just go with Mazzaro’s line as the answer, if that’s ok with everyone…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 29, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
1. I dont know, Wuertz is burning us now on his multi-year deal. Beane might be gun-shy and might just look for another Breslow.
2. Who do you trade him for? He’s more of a DH/1B nowdays, if you want maximum value out of him.
3. Just sign Manny Ramirez to DH and let Carter OPS 1000+ at AAA before you call him up.
4. I mean the saying is you can never have enough pitching. But Anderson-Cahill-Gio-Braden-Mazzaro-Outman-Ross-Mortensen-Tomko-DiNardo-Banwart-Edel is a nice depth chart. Plus Krol might rise pretty fast, also Ynoa. Is spending money on a guy who is giving you the same production as Mortensen might give you smart? Im going with no. I’d take Cliff Lee in a heartbeat though.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Uh
I would hesitate to call the Mortensen-Tomko-DiNardo section “nice” anything, especially “nice” starting pitching. I get your point, but let’s not get carried away.
by el generico on Jun 28, 2010 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
from an 8-9-10 its not too bad
the odds they will combine for more than 5 starts is too great.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
If we can move a couple draft picks and Conor Jackson's salary,
we should be be able to afford two max contract players, which is extremely rare. Then…
Kobe, Bosh, FTW
by Thefirstletterofthealphabet on Jun 28, 2010 5:32 PM PDT reply actions
You have Kobe confused with LeBron.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 28, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we spend it on cheez-whiz and hookers?
pleaz?
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
And waste the rest?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No. ALL of it.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 28, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
and some Sam Adams to get the taste outta my mouth.
Take your silver mod tubescreamer, your dr. z, your nocaster, put them in a pile and burn them. if god gave you a thousand years, you still couldn't touch this. you can't f***ing keep time to this.
A couple problems to point out
Kouzmanoff and Conor Jackson are due more than $3 million in 2011. Arbitration will probably cause them to cost a combined $10 million. Kurt Suzuki, if he makes it to arbitration, will most likely earn $3 – 3.5 million. Ryan Sweeney and Dallas Braden are also arby eligible next year and would be looking at a similar pay day.
If the A’s decline the options on Ellis, Crisp and Chavez and release/refuse arbitration on Gross, Cust and Buck then they’re looking at approximately $37 million in payroll before they go on a shopping spree.
Budget accordingly.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 28, 2010 6:02 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
We've missed
your ray of fucking sunshine.
by el generico on Jun 28, 2010 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Way to bring up that old chestnut
I’d rec your comment but I’m afraid it would look self-serving and vain.
The monster at the end of this blog.
thank you for a great comment grover
I don’t read as much as AN as I used to. I just finished a bottle feeding with my newborn son and found this thread for some 1 a.m. reading.
I’m rec’ing this comment because it’s the one out of 248 in this thread that taught me something about baseball. In your great comment, I read some factual corrections from higher up in the thread about salaries, and I learned about the A’s total payroll commitments for ‘11. That’s good info.
But it’s a poor “hit” ratio for me as a reader, that I invested 30 min. for one nugget of knowledge. :)
I would be grateful if other users will recommend comments that clearly show good research and/or insight in the future. This site has grown much more popular in the 4 years I’ve followed it, and that’s wonderful…but the downside is that I don’t wade into the large threads anymore because I have to sift through a lot of content to gain new knowledge. I think that consistently color-coding some of the best comments will have a positive impact.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jun 29, 2010 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
As for the topic of the thread itself...
I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but what about swallowing bad contracts?
Free agents don’t want to come to Oakland. Accept it, and instead use the ~$25M of payroll flexibility to acquire good prospects by swallowing a bad contract.
What could the A’s have gotten for eating all or most of Zito or Vernon Wells’ contract last offseason, or even two off-seasons ago? Both players have since had bounce back seasons, but their respective teams were desperate to unload $80M+ in salary at one point. Desperate enough, perhaps, that the A’s could’ve gotten top-flight prospects and the aforementioned player with bounceback potential in return.
I wouldn’t do this for guys with questionable character, like Zambrano/Bradley, because it wouldn’t be worth the distraction in a young, developing clubhouse, but to take on a good guy who’s simply underperforming, like Zito or Vernon Wells were? Sure.
Again, I’m not saying this is the ideal off-season; instead, it’s an innovative off-season approach for a team that has realized that no legitimate free agents want to play for them.
What if they had claimed Alex Rios when he passed through waivers last year? He’d look pretty good in the A’s outfield at this point.
Clearly the team has already started somewhat along the salary-eating path last off season with the Taveras/Aaron Miles moves, which ultimately led to Rosales and Fox.
This off season, for example, maybe you take on Brandon Lyon’s entire deal ($10M remaining?) in hopes of landing a B prospect in return. Or a guy like Kei Igawa, and swallow all $4M owed to him for 2011, and then re-route Igawa to the NL where he belongs. Again it’s the concept of using the spare money to facilitate prospect acquisition. The A’s basically “bought” Joey Devine in this same manner by paying $6M of Kotsay’s salary in the Braves deal.
Try to think of some other guys with bad contracts that might be logical fits. This would be a good discussion within this thread or a good fanpost topic, because it’s the rare topic that hasn’t already been discussed here ad naseum.
"It’s ideal if your hobby and your living can merge. But you are not going to stop your hobby if you can’t make money out of it. Your hobby is all about trading time for enjoyment. My job is what I do. My hobby is who I am." -Tango
by notsellingjeans on Jun 29, 2010 1:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
An interesting idea but...
You’d have to find a contract so bad that the other team couldn’t afford to simply hit the Eject button and release the player. I’m not sure if even the Marlins are so cheap as to do as you suggest and they really don’t have anyone with an albatross contract.
A more realistic scenario would be to fish the waiver wire to find the next Alex Rios.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I think there is a reason this doesn't happen: Egos and Jobs being on the line.
GMs have both egos and the need to protect their own asses. Look at the flack tha Riccardi got when he put Rios on waivers last year, because he gave him the massive deal that turned out poorly. Now imagine if Riccardi had given the Pale Hose a B level prospect too. GMs have to watch their asses so even if it makes sense on a logical framework on a political framework opposing GMs are unlikely to do what you are suggesting. Furthermore, eating albatross deals is the exact same as overpaying in FA if you are looking at it from a resources to talent prospective unless you can get short term deals of a player who you cant get for the same amount of money in a long term deal, like getting 1 year of an older star.
I think the other thing your analysis lacks is 1 we did not try to over pay for any of the free agents mentioned. Beltre got basically on par money at Boston with the added benefit of a hitters park when he goes back on the market. The Phillies offered him the same deal that we did before signing Polanco, but you don’t see Beltre and FAs scorn Philly complaints. Scutaro we traded away for essentially nothing but salary relief and I didn’t see any stories that suggested that we were going to pay him significantly more than Boston, but rather that it was slightly more. 2 those free agents were hitters. Try signing a FA pitcher who will probably be able to get another contract after pitching in the cavern that is the Coli and I bet youll bet a different response than you do from hitters.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks... I like being rec'd
Although to be perfectly honest I kinda wish my comments were getting rec’d based on their sex appeal rather than their smarts.
And how did you get so lucky to do 1 AM bottle feedings?!?! Seemed like my kid preferred 3 AM…
The monster at the end of this blog.
Man, I got real lucky. I didn't do too many night feedings.
My wife preferred to ‘empty things out naturally’ when she could. Plus, her rocking chair was pretty comfortable.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Welcome to the new AN that kinda stuff just doesn't really exist anymore.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
lol Stop being a part of the problem then.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
by mikev on Jun 29, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
’Cause more DFA is the solution to hundreds of uninspiring posters.
The monster at the end of this blog.
im not sure how to read this
are you implying that im an unispiring poster?
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
I’m saying you shouldn’t be asked to make up for lots of folks who don’t add to the group.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Certainly there are a core group of posters who pull the weight of the rest.
Part of the problem might be that new people just don’t know how to use the SB nation technology yet. It is better than pretty much everything out there. Also, you have to click Actions to get to the Rec, so it isn’t obvious to new people.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
This requires a much longer reply than I'm able to do right now.
The monster at the end of this blog.
Yeah i just don't think thats accurate
SBnation has the best tech around true but really I don’t think that has anything to do with tons of garbage posters.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought we were talking about rec'ing comments.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, well, that's what happens when you open the club to outsiders.
You get people who can’t dance out on the floor.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? Tons of garbage posters?
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Obesity is a problem in America
Maybe he’s suggesting adding that to the computer geek stereotype?
The monster at the end of this blog.
Really Dan youre pretty much the only consistent poster worth reading
and yes I consider the FIRE GEREN NOW (no additional anaylsis needed) fanposts garbage.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
garbage = stuff that isn't interesting to me.
All that GOG stuff, for instance. And CT threads.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I wasn't counting those but the latter are hardly baseball related.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
CT threads are really just a continuation of the game threads and hardly ever show up anywhere except the overflow.
They are baseball, and they are not, pretty much like the game threads.
GOG stuff is baseball. Some people learn a little bit about the team the A’s are coming up against, even if it’s just the name of a pitcher.
I get you aren’t interested in them, but it’s not like they’re trying to get people to stop calling for Geren’s head and riot for a new stadium.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Like I said I wasn't complaining about those.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I totally agree
AN is full of bullshit non baseball posters that say shit like
no I went to the Cat Club’s prom
Ive never been to a prom.
I had a bitching 70s liesure tux with ruffled shirt
He’s not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they’re party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese – mikev
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
couldn’t find my bow tie though.
but the vest makes it regardless.
He’s not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they’re party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese – mikev
by designatedforassignment on May 30, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
and
i wear a paisly ruffled tuxedo shirt out all the time
“Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged.” – PT
by designatedforassignment on May 8, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
I could go on I suppose
but like all other AN people now, I am not very smart or good at research
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Right and the over 66,000 words that are in my baseball related fanposts analyzing prospects trades and statistics aren't more indicative of my posting here.
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh good
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on Jun 29, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Big drop off in position players after the cream of the crop
I would love to get Bosch from Detroit or Willingham from Washington to play LF. But those guys are not FA’s and their teams are doing decent but I still want them…
WTF GEREN?!?!?!
Bosch? You crazy
He’s out of his mind right now. Detroit won’t give him up.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 28, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? Boesch is exactly the kind of player I'd stay far away from
He’s playing great but probably isn’t very good.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm too worried about his career year
Anyone think he turns into Jake Fox once he’s traded?
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
Anyone watching Nats-Braves?
The Nats are making the Pirates defense look competent.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
What a waste of the Strasburg
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
by Hit4TheCycle on Jun 28, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Desmond is such a butcher out there...
Too bad, he makes that routine DP and it’s another 7 scoreless for The Kid.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jun 28, 2010 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Danny Haren hit a home run today!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
He's hitting .444 on the year.
Just mashing, in 45 AB too.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jun 28, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
That’s outta control. I miss him.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Yea, 20-45 now I think.
Bring back Hammer.
by OaktownPower on Jun 28, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Trade him for Carter!
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Let's sign him up
Put him the outfield, Ankiel-style.
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
by Hit4TheCycle on Jun 28, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Bring him back!
He’s due $12.75M the next two years with a $15.5M club option in 2013 (3.5 buyout).
He can DH on his off days which could open up a roster spot for a platoon somewhere, possibly involving Russell Branyan.
3 > 2, except for very large values of 2.
Seems like you guys are forgetting
Nobody actually wants to come play here. Seriously. Subpar team, old ass stadium, low fan support. Overpay all you want – all you do is drive up the cost for whoever gets the guy.
Uggla at 30HR in the coliseum? Maybe 20. That warm Miami air accounts for some of his power.
Dump Sheets, Chavez will be gone, Let Ellis go. Next year we bring up all the guys on the top step and see how it shakes out. What’s one more rebuilding year? Besides, all these Rivercats are buddies anyway. They’ll be great camaraderie!
I miss Eric Plunk
Wow, I just couldn't have imagined this
the A’s, the team who couldn’t afford to keep their talented FAs, is wondering what to do with a budget surplus?? I remember the simpler times. And somehow, and for just a moment, I almost cried a sympathy tear for Mr. Cashman…what to do with all this friggin $$$?
Can I blow everyone's mind for a second?
What if, just what if, Lew said “$25M? Oh, I could spend a LOT more than that”.
Because I think he definitely could if Billy asked him to.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
sweet, so we could overpay a bunch of second tier guys and end up like the Cubs
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Or, just make enough $$$ available to sign Cliff Lee, Orlando Hudson and Manny.
I forsee no fail in that.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
I know Lew would give Billy more money if Billy could put forth a good argument about why he needs it.
I believe he’s said that somewhere. I think Billy would have to ask for it first, however, and it would probably have to be specifically part of a plan to acquire a player or players. I don’t have a problem with that. I’d rather know that my GM has a good plan before I just hand him a checkbook.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Sweeney's knees are sore, and apparently we're not playing with a SS today, according to @OaklandAs
1 Crisp, CF
2 Barton, 1B
3 Jackson, LF
4 Suzuki, C
5 Kousmanoff, 3B
6 Rosales, 2B
7 Ellis, DH
8 Davis, RF
9 Pennington, SS
AND… Braden is not pitching. Sore elbow or something. They are hoping he can go Saturday. Mazarro instead.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, conspiracy theorists:
Braden starts Saturday, then goes on short rest on Wednesday against the Yankees. I am pretty certain that a series Braden pitches against the Yankees will pull in more people than a series without.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I see LS
sorry to step on your linking toes :-) I wasn’t in this thread cuz of all the comments.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
And natch, Braden is going to spontaneously combust
and give Barton 3rd degree burns too.
I'll tell Barton to sit on the other end of the bus.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Patterson can sit by Braden.
Oh wait, he’s already gone. And Fox is gone, too. Who is left that we’re supposed to hate now?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Jeremy Belvins
and his small sample size poor pitching?
Braden shouldnt pitch again until after the ASG.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
This kinda sucks.
Jake Fox disappointed he’s now out of the #Orioles lineup because of the #Athletics pitching change. He’d looked forward to facing Braden. 21 minutes ago via Twittelator
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
There's that,
but also I got nothing against Fox. He’s on the Orioles. He doesn’t have much else to look forward too.
by LoneStranger on Jun 29, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
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