A's trade a Fox for a Wolf
by DeJay on Jun 22, 2010 9:28 AM PDT
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In a move that will probably come as no surprise the A's have traded Jake Fox to the Orioles for minor league reliever Ross Wolf. Wolf is 27 and has an unimpressive minor league career but I suppose anything is better than nothing. At least it brings to an end the whole Jake Fox saga but Jeff Gray, Ronnie Morla and Matt Spencer along with $4m for Ross Wolf is not the best looking sequence. I suppose a wolf is stronger and harder than a fox so there is some consolation.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37849516/ns/sports-player_news/
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wolf--001ros
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Damn, you beat me to it. LOL!
I was going to make the Fox/Wolf animal observation, also.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Just get rid of Patterson next.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 22, 2010 9:41 AM PDT reply actions
Bowers goes before Patterson
sadly. both have no business on a non-AAA roster.
-Yeah, I just posted that, but my opinion is apparently "wrong" a significant portion of the time though, so take it as you will.
Of course, this means that when the O's come to town again
He’ll hit 3 HR and drive in 10 runs
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
So what can be said
wolf = Gray – Spencer and Morla + cash. A loss for the A’s but not a big one.
Didn't the A's also get Aaron Miles in that deal, and didn't Miles turn into Rosales?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
After they threw in $4 million
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
That's not entirely accurate though
Because they also didn’t have to pay Miles’ contract when they ate Tavares’
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes but they had to acquire Miles's contract first.
Gray, Spencer, Morla, $4M for Rosales and Wolf
No?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't forget that the Cubs gave the A's $1M to cover the Miles contract.
So the total cost of acquiring Fox and Rosales was only $3M – $1.7 M (plus players) for Fox/Wolf and $1.3 M for Rosales.
I'm not followin' ya
Miles cost $2M, Taveras cost $4M. Cubs gave $1M. Total Cost of Crap – $5M.
Gray, Spencer, Morla and $5M for Rosales, Wolf and whatever the Reds threw in.
No?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
The Cubs gave the A's $1 million.
So start at $0. The A’s get $1 million cash in that deal. They also take on a $2M and change obligation to Miles, which immediately becomes a sunk cost. So after the first trade, they’re negative $1M (and change) and they have Miles/Fox and are out Grat, Spencer, and Morla. Now, we can break it down more and say at that point, Miles/Fox are also slotted to replace two $400K players or something, but let’s not bother with that.
So when the A’s trade Miles to the Reds and take on Tavares’ deal, they go from $1M to -$3M because they’re no longer obligated to pay Miles (+$2M), but now they’re on the hook for Tavares ($4M). So that’s another $2M loss.
So it’s basically a $3M tax spent to get Rosales. I don’t see how you could factor any extra money into that. You don’t even need to include all the Miles money. Just look at it this way: The 3 trades involved the A’s getting a free $1 million and paying out a sunk $4 million. They still end up only $3M down.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Did the Cubs pay $1M cash or $1M of Miles's salary?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 23, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
You should be subtracting Miles 2M, not adding it.
Gray, Spencer, Morla for Fox, Miles(2.7M), and 1M cash. At that point the A’s were “down” 1.7M
Miles (1.7M) was then sent to Cincy for Rosales and Tavares (4M), so they were “down” 2.3M on top of the players involved who were on minimum or minor league contracts (Gray, Spencer, Morla, Fox, and Rosales)
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That confirms what I'd been told in the press box last night in Sacramento
I hadn’t seen anything online about it yet so I was waiting for the official word.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
How did you contain your excitement?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Looks to be a pretty similar pitcher to Ziggy.
I read somewhere that he’s a ground ball pitcher who more or less relies on keeping stuff on the ground (imagine that) because he doesn’t seem to be able to strike people out on a regular basis and walks a decent amount of batters.
Then again, I can’t find anything beyond that on the guy anywhere, so this whole post is based on me looking at their career stats and then pulling something out of my ass.
Ziggy’s Major League Line (3 seasons): 1.324 WHIP, 7.9 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 4.0 BB/9, 5.8 SO/9, 1.47 SO/BB
Wolfy’s Minor League Line (9 seasons): 1.365 WHIP, 9.3 H/9, 0.5 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 5.8 SO/9, 1.96 SO/BB
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
You can't really compare anyone to Ziegler in the minors
Unless the pitcher you’re comparing him to also had 2 fractured skulls and then was converted into a reliever, then starting pitching with a submarine deliver.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not comparing their personal lives, I'm comparing their stats.
Funny you mention it though, because Wolf was converted into a reliever, too.
Once again: comparing stats, not injuries and who they are as a person and what they’ve been through as a ballplayer.
Just stats.
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
My point was very poorly worded, my apologies
I misread the two lines and thought you were comparing the 2 in the minors, I didn’t even realize you were giving Ziegler’s Major League Line. The only reason I was saying those things about Ziegler was because his journey in the minors can’t be summed up by a career line, but by what he had done once he became a submariner.
That being said, Wolf’s numbers are similar to Ziegler’s, but in the minors. Once he reaches the majors, the walks go up, the SO’s go down and he will most likely be a much worse reliever than Ziegler…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh yeah, absolutely.
If I came across as a little harsh, I apologize as well. The only problem with comparing these two guys is with how different their career paths were/are, something that I now understand when I re-read your original post. Wolf’s stats are bound to worsen a tad in the majors, but we never really know until he’s given a shot.
I also doubt he’ll be another Ziggy; his numbers in the minors match up so well with Ziggy’s major league line that it’s honestly pretty worrisome.
But hey, a Wolf is better than a Fox, right?
"You're just jealous. You wish you had a rally animal..." -CardinalWraith
by Boonee on Jun 22, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He seems to have a pretty big platoon split so he shouldn't replace anyone but Ziegler
Not sure what the point is
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 10:35 AM PDT reply actions
The point
To make the Orioles pay for the remainder of Jake Fox, no?
by Colorado Fan on Jun 22, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Jake Fox is a giant baseball turd
And the Orioles were actually offering a player in return for him. Should the A’s have said, “No, we have Brad Ziegler. Bugger off.”
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I want to say 'Yes" just for comedic value.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying this is an amazing deal or anything
But to get a guy who might be able to help in the bullpen for a guy who should be playing beer league softball certainly has a point.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
No we traded Eric Byrnes for a ROOGY that Geren will use as a LOOGY
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would he have to replace someone like Ziegler?
Another ground ball pitcher is a good thing, right?
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Except when those ground balls hit the outfield wall.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Because if he doesn't, you have two guys who should only pitch to righties in the pen
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Why does it matter?
Of all the players involved in the Fox-related trades, I think it’s safe to say the A’s got the best one (Rosales).
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Because they pretty clearly could have gotten Rosales anyway without all this nonsense expended at the sake of Jake Fox
the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy
by walk off bunt on Jun 22, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
That's possibly true, but we don't know if the A's can make the trade/want to if they don't have Miles' contract to give up.
In the end, they gave up virtually nothing for Fox, and got at least one pretty solid piece out of it.
I just don’t understand Dan’s “this guy better be good” as if trading Fox was either a bad idea or as if the A’s gave up anything to get him in the first place.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I think there were a lot of
little pieces being put together. What scraps were to be had hadn’t sussed itself out.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Sorry, dannycakes.
Wipe those tears away.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Amazing
It’s small peanuts, but this is easily one of Beane’s most wasteful, blatantly failed sequences in recent memory.
It’s not so much losing anything to get Fox, it’s that he never had a point in the first place with Cust/Chavez/Patterson all vying for at bats, and he was only given 106 plate appearances before they tired of him anyway when he slugged .468 in 241 last year.
Just pointless. The tenure of Jake Fox is indicative of the kind of frustrating thumb-twiddling this front office has been guilty of at times in the past few years.
the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy
I agree the A's gave up too early on Fox, but...
He never had a point in the first place with Cust/Chavez/Patterson all vying for at bats
They’re all left handed hitters. I think one of the goals in the Fox acquisition was to acquire some right handed power. I’m pretty sure they expected him to help at 3B and 1B, spelling Chavez and Barton against LHP. Then they acquired Kouzmanoff and Chavez couldn’t play, so he didn’t need to play 3B. Then Barton was good against LHP as well as RHP, so there was no need for him at 1B. I wouldn’t say it was necessarily an “wasteful, blatantly failed sequence,” but the subsequent events made it one.
A lot of AN realized that he wasn’t going to be a “right handed Cust,” but a lot of people hoped he could provide a little right handed power from at least a utility player. It certainly wasn’t a good sequence, but when you only lose players like Ronny Morla and Jeff Gray and Matt Spencer, it’s hard to call it a disaster.
If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.
by NateHST on Jun 22, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly. The A's have had problems against lefty for a few years now, and thought Fox would provide some
RH pop. It didn’t work, no harm in trying.
by theblackpearl on Jun 22, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I can submit to this argument, I think
But if that’s the goal, why give up after 106 PAs?
Like Nate said in response to me, “I wouldn’t say it was necessarily an "wasteful, blatantly failed sequence," but the subsequent events made it one.”
Okay, so Fox wasn’t pointless in the first place. Certainly a little reactionary on my part. But the handling of his entire tenure feels wasteful. No, Morla and Spencer aren’t special, but their numbers are solid right now and they could’ve been used to bring in a useful part, if, as it is apparent, that wasn’t Jake Fox.
the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy
by walk off bunt on Jun 22, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the answer, from the standpoint of a fan, is that those 106 ABs almost without exception SUCKED!!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
why give up?
Because we have Powell, Patterson, and Gross — all of whom play a similar role on this team.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 22, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
The A's didn't give up on Fox... he got outplayed by others
Powell deserves to be the back-up Catcher.
Barton has earned an everyday job at 1B.
Kouzmanoff is better than Fox at 3B.
The monster at the end of this blog.
by grover on Jun 22, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeesh.
You know the ridiculously pervasive complaint that Beane only goes for low-ceiling boring guys? Jake Fox was a high-upside high-risk guy. It didn’t end up working. That’s what high-risk means. How can you blame Beane for trying something like this, when we didn’t give up much at all?
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
by danmerqury on Jun 22, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was too reactionary.
My real gripe is, if 106 PAs is enough for you to deem the experiment a failure, then on some level I feel like the experiment isn’t worth bothering with in the first place.
It’s a waste of 106 PAs and it’s a waste of the talent it took to get him. Which, yes, isn’t a waste of a whole lot. But it’s thumb-twiddling nonsense.
the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy
by walk off bunt on Jun 22, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
but the experiment was ended with Kouz, Fox was supposed to initially spell Chavy. You get a full time
RIGHT HANDED 3b, there is no use to platoon, so they tried to see if he could cover the OF, he failed, and they tried him at catcher, he failed
by theblackpearl on Jun 22, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sorry, but Jake Fox was nothing short of terrible in his tenure with the A's
I recall several ABs where pitchers would throw him 3 straight breaking balls out of the zone and he swung at every single one.
He had no business in the majors, and the only way to give him time in the minors was by exposing him through waivers. At least the A’s got a live body in return for him.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
How the heck is a guy with the upside of a crappy fielding Mike Stanley high upside?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
2009 Stats
Because he put a ridiculous .409/.495/.841 line for AAA Iowa in 2009, with 17 HR, and hit 31 HR with a .921 OPS the year before. And he hit a respectable .779 (with 11 HR) with the Cubs in 216 ABs last year too.
I do think "high ceiling" is inaccurate, though
He is known well to be a terrible fielder with very poor plate discipline. That makes his ceiling something like Steve Balboni.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who here...
…wouldn’t be clamoring for Balboni circa ‘84 or ’85? I get all the anger, though. It’s as though everyone expects Beane to guess correctly on a buy-low candidate every single time. Sorry, but it’s impossible; no one can see all the Saenz signs.
by LowcountryJoe on Jun 23, 2010 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I think I agree with this
I get what people are counterarguing to me, but I keep getting stuck between thinking “either his upside wasn’t high enough to be worth bothering with in the first place” or “if it was worth bothering with, 106 PAs certainly wasn’t a long enough tryout to decide it wasn’t worth bothering with any longer.”
Yes, he was outplayed by other guys on the team pretty clearly more worthy of the playing time, but I still have a hard time getting around the idea that what we ultimately got was 106 crappy PAs at the expense of using those PAs elsewhere and the minor league talent it took to bring him in.
It feels like it was thumb-twiddling. I guess it wasn’t meritless, but at the same time nothing about his tenure feels like it was worthwhile either. It feels like spinning our wheels.
On the other hand, it clearly isn’t that big a deal and I’m definitely guilty of overanalyzing this by now.
the oakland athletics: hittin' ain't easy
by walk off bunt on Jun 23, 2010 6:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, he's not important and never was
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 23, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Not impressed. He was already 26-27 in 2009 and had a fluke 185 AB in AAA
PECOTA projected him at .252/.322.455 in 2010
CHONE ..257/.316/.452
ZiPS .252/.313/.442
He’s going to be 28 next month. He is what he’ll ever be. He’s not useless, but he has no real upside
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a worthwhile stat line
If Fox had reached those projections, he would have been a useful player for the A’s. An OPS in the 770s would make him one of the team’s best hitters. And he’s right-handed, which was an area of team weakness. But he didn’t come close to those projections in his 100 ABs, so it didn’t work out.
100 AB isn't enough to draw that conclusion.
The problem is that he’s such a useless defender that he’ll never get regular AB, and his .770 OPS isn’t good enough to put up with his defense.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't say that for sure, but it's what it seemed like.
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What is the average P/PA?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
The A's average 3.80 P/PA in 2010.
Players above 4.0 are:
Daric Barton, 4.44
Cliff Pennington, 4.11
Eric Patterson, 4.07
Jack Cust, 4.07
Thanks.
What is the average across the league? Or AL?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Red Sox are really good
AL Team P/PA:
Red Sox, 4.07
Mariners 3.95
Yankees 3.92
Indians, 3.92
Rays 3.91
Angels 3.88
A’s 3.80
Tigers 3.79
White Sox, 3.78
Twins 3.78
Blue Jays 3.75
Rangers 3.74
Orioles 3.73
Royals 3.73
Thanks for this info. I really appreciate it.
Interesting that the A’s are in the middle of the pack. I would have assumed much higher.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
now that fox is gone
and davis presumably getting less PAs….
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Eric Patterson is above average?
Well we can throw out this P/PA stat.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Suzuki's P/PA over the course of his career.
’07 3.76
’08 3.68
’09 3.44
’10 3.33
Which coincides with a gradual decline in walk rate.
Ever since Skaalen became the hitting coach, I’ve noticed a gradual trend upwards of a hacktastic approach.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Does that hold true for others who have been with the A's for a few years?
What year did Skaalen become the hitting coach?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
It's hard to tell since so many of the A's players haven't been with that team that long.
Basically we only have Kurt, Ellis, Sweeney, and Cust to look at and try to spot trends.
Cust’s turn towards being more hacktastic has been well documented. Ellis experienced a 5% jump in swing percentage last year which is pretty significant (but it seems to have gone down to his career norms this year). Sweeney has been pretty much the same. Obviously, we don’t have much of a sample size or enough years to conclude much of anything.
Looking at Kurt though, I’m slightly worried. The BB rate is bothersome but the most alarming stat is a near 7% jump in infield fly balls (pretty much the least productive out you can make). He’s also experience a 6% drop in line drive rate. I’ve been mulling this over in my head for a while and I really think that Kurt’s actively trying to hit more home runs, at the expense of every other part of his offensive game.
The results have been pretty good so far as we’ve seen. But Kurt isn’t much of a home run hitter even with the jump in bombs this year. Maybe he’ll hit a few more home runs overall but when you’re neglecting everything else for home runs, I don’t know how that bodes for his overall offensive value, or his continued productivity. Worst case scenario, the LD rate and the popups catch up to him, he doesn’t continue his fluky home run rate, and he experiences a huge dropoff in the second half and he stalls in his progress as a hitter. I’m not predicting that to happen, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it did.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree --
His “right-center field” line drive swing is his strength. And when he’s thinking along those lines he can see pitches longer and hack less, so he walks more as well as hitting for a higher average.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Unfortunately he seems to drop his shoulder and try to pull everything.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Thanks for walking through that.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Kurt, of course, hacked through it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
fox regularly fouled or whiffed the 1st pitch of every AB.
its funny, kouz is doing the same thing, except he has been exceptional with 2 strikes.
I think the projections were overselling him too.
PECOTA didn’t consider the fact that Fox can’t hit breaking balls at all and has abysmal plate discipline.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The low OBP shows the bad plate discipline
The low BA is a consequence of not being able to hit breaking balls.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Not low enough.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think the A's would've gotten rid of him if he had come anywhere close to those projections
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Then they should have stuck with him. I see no reason he can't get there with
regular playing time. I also don’t see why he’d decline more with sporadic playing time than anyone else with sporadic playing time.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoa, not seeing the Mike Stanley comp.
Stanley had great on base skills.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I was trying to think of a crappy fielding OK hitting catcher
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Todd Greene might be a better fit
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes as a comp, but for upside I might consider someone like Ryan Garko
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
The funny part is that
one ingredient of this argument is “we had already Chavez, so we shouldn’t have gone looking for someone else” … which is the opposite of what we usually hear around here.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Based on his numbers, might not be a bad idea to throw Wolf out there.
I know he’s 27 and hasn’t been any good before, but he’s worth a shot based on what we’re running out there now.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
YES!
We’ve made the single move that is going to launch our playoff run. (For the Rivercats, I mean.)
@WorldBLee
From Camden Chat about Fox
I actually had this guy on my fantasy team
To start the season because there was talk of him being the starting DH for the A’s. I’m not going to get excited about it, but I do think he’s got the potential to be a decent hitter, and likely he’ll hit a HR from 1B fairly soon. A moral victory for us all. He never got any consistent play for the A’s so I hope he gets some time here, since we can afford to let people struggle. (i.e. The entire team)
just… wow.
No words...
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, considering pretty much every projection system had him at league average or better,
yeah, he could shine in Baltimore.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I agree with Dan
he could be useful if it weren’t for the composition of the A’s roster.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
The blunder
I’m pretty convinced that the reason the A’s got Fox is because they thought he had options left. That’s how it was first publicized and then suddenly after the trade, the discovery was made that he didn’t. I think the A’s covered up (as Geren covered up his double-switch blunder) by claiming they knew it all the time. I’m not sure the trade would’ve gone down as it had if they’d known they were dealing with two back-of-the-roster commodities (Fox and Patterson) who had run out of options.
The only argument against this is that the Oakland Athletics front office tends to be more intelligent and aware than most - but I haven’t seen that at all in the past two years. I’ve seen bad moves, cover-ups and spin, ever since Lew Wolff bought the club.
I've been thinking the same thing.
There was that day this spring that Slusser was running around trying to figure it out and Fox was shocked that he might have an option left.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
It didn't seem like ANYBODY knew if he had options left or not.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
It's understandable that Slusser didn't know
But the A’s Front Office is PAID to know these things, hence the cover-up.
The problem with these sort of cover-ups is not that the person doing the cover-up is stupid, but it’s the idea that others are stupid enough to believe them. And it usually comes home to roost.
Fox knew.
You’d think someone would have thought to ask HIM.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Fox was an NLer and probably understands double shifts
You’d think Geren would have thought to ask him as well.
I never even thought of this richwol, and now that you mention it, you are probably right.
Fox himself didn’t even know he was out of options.
I remember when that came out, and I think it was Slusser who first reported that he had used his last option when he was sent down for less than a week or something.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Never mind, just read the discussion from the offseason
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
The people who didn't know Fox was out of options
were anyone who relied on the MLB.com transaction list, which omitted the move at the end of the 2007 season. That group did not include Fox himself, but it did include virtually every sports reporter, columnist, and analyst; all other online baseball stat providers except for one (Baseball America, the only one that had it right); and all of us blog readers. It may or may not have included the A’s front office.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
just goes to show you
that even a baseball front office is still, at its heart, an office.
by mk on Jun 22, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed
Really thought he was a steal for the A’s. I still think that if some team gives him an every-day chance he can provide something useful.
Everyone seemed to hate him on these boards, but how many guys are going to hit well playing once or twice a week?
http://www.ballyourbase.com
by thelincolndude on Jun 22, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
It wasn't that he didn't hit well
he was downright terrible.
There are better options in AAA that can come in to hit once or twice a week better than what Fox was doing.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, of course.
But Fox had the potential to become something more than replacement. It didn’t pan out, but that doesn’t mean it was a bad move.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
I agree with this.
I don’t agree with your statement up there that he could shine in Baltimore.
Fox is not a Major League/American League caliber player. He just isn’t.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, I agree
There was a chance he could have been quite useful, especially the idea of having a guy with power off the bench.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I think getting Fox made sense
At the time, there was no Kouz or Cust. But once spring training came to a close, Fox and Patterson should have been sent down and exposed to, respectively, waivers and leprosy.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good
If only for the elimination of Eric/Jake slipups by the TV crew.
Moves that need to be made
DFA Bowers
Purchase Wolf
DFA Patterson
Activate Crisp
Option Ross
Recall H-Rod
I'd rather call up someone who can go 3-4 innings if needed.
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Ross hasn't really been that bad, other than that 3-4 game stretch he had, when he was going from starter
to reliever. He seems to have righted his ship, since being stabilized as a bp arm again.
by theblackpearl on Jun 22, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
That's my whole problem. He shouldn't be a BP arm.
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Agreed
Ross has the stuff to start. Mortensen does not AND he’s likely better than Ross right now. So bring the guy up and stop wasting Ross’ s service time and stalling his development.
How does Mortensen not have the stuff to start?!
Where are you getting this idea?
His last 6 starts he hasn’t gone less than 6.2 IP, he’s inducing groundballs at a solid rate, he’s striking guys out.
I agree with you that they are stalling Ross’s development, but Mortensen is not the answer.
He could still very well be a solid back end of the rotation guy…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
How does Ross have the stuff to start?
He has a fastball and a slider, period, and control that comes and goes with no warning. He should be in AAA learning a third pitch.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, unless the A's think he's going to be a bullpen guy
If it’s assumed that the A’s don’t think he has any shot to be anything better than a spot starter, might the best use of him right now be in the current role he’s in?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he needs to be starting every 5th day in Sacramento.
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maybe they feel, they can't change his mechanics and maintain his effectiveness, and the starters load
would destroy his arm.
by theblackpearl on Jun 22, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
middle relief guys are a dime a dozen
Ross will be most valuable as a starter, arm problems notwithstanding. From a team need perspective, he’s ended up on the roster, but from a value perspective, he needs to be in AAA. If Bowers wasn’t so incredibly terrible/inconsistent, Ross could be sent to AAA.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 22, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's a nickel.
Can I have six decent middle relievers please?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
heh
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 22, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Is Kilby hurt or something
He should be here instead of Bowers
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
Yes and so is Henry
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Cla is available
mlbtraderumors
Orioles Designate Cla Meredith For Assignment http://bit.ly/b1NZ1K #mlb
about 1 hour ago via twitterfeed
Takers? (But only if you say it Cl-ahh and not Clay)
He can’t be worse than Bowers, right?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
If Twitter is an accurate timeline, it sounds like they DFAed him right after the deal for Fox was official
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 22, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
But they DFAd him BECAUSE of the Fox deal, right?
He’s basically a ROOGY, but might not hurt to take a shot on him. The A’s aren’t that low on the waiver list right now.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn't he awesome at one point?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Weren't we all?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
only some of us
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 22, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Like a Worse Ziegler
Meredith used to be tough on righties, and get clobbered by lefties, but this year, RHB have a .952 OPS against him.
So he's a worse Wolf
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
The only thing I can think is when the fans scream "Wolff sucks" Lew can console
himself into thinking they’re talking about Ross.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
So the A's now have:
Andrew Bailey, Andrew Bailey, Bob Geren, Bobby Geren (well, not really), Lew Wolff, Ross Wolf, and Tyson Ross.
I think we’re being messed with.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
We need to find a guy named Wolf Tyson.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Seriously?
We have TWO Andrew Baileys?
When did that happen?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Cloning has come a long way.
there is also another Jake Fox in AA
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Don't torture me like that.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
27 is young for a reliever
its really time to swap henry rodriguez for tyson btw. ross has figured out that he cant throw his splitter for strikes and is using the slider more, which a nasty pitch. its time to build a starter out of him in sacramento…
In an extremely roundabout way...
We traded a decent AAA reliever for Conor Jackson.
We traded Jake Fox for a decent AAA reliever.
Conor Jackson > Jake Fox.
Wade Hines
Well I'd rather have Demel than Wolf, but yeah. Jackson + Wolf > Fox + Demel
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 23, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
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