How Much Roster Turnover is Too Much?
by danmerqury on Jun 22, 2010 7:01 AM PDT
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Update 2 (4:15 PM): CF Coco Crisp has been taken off of the disabled list, and LF/2B(ish) Eric Patterson has been designated for assignment. {Nico adds: IT'S ABOUT F***ING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW LET THE REAL SEASON BEGIN!}
Update (10:15 AM): And just like that, we've got another move. The recently DFA'd C/OF Jake Fox has been traded to the Orioles for RP Ross Wolf. Discussion is happening here.
I was looking through my closet the other day, and found a giveaway that the A's had in 2008. Just a regular standard team portrait (with a terrible 100% Baseball slogan on the back). I'm not exactly sure when during the season the photo was taken, but I'm sure some roster genius can figure it out. No, what really struck me was the huge amount of lost Athletics there are in that picture. Two little years, give or take a couple months, and a full fifteen of the thirty A's in the picture have moved on. Half.
Now, I know the A's experience more roster turnover than most teams, but the magnitude of that turnover never really hit me until now. Last week, we faced Carlos Zambrano, who had faced the A's back in 2004. Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee have been in Chicago for years and years. You know how many current A's faced the Cubs in 2004? Three. Eric Chavez, Mark Ellis, and Justin Duchscherer, and I'm not really sure that you can count two of those. In fact, aside from those three players, we don't have anyone else on the roster that wore an Oakland uniform in the ALCS in 2006. We've got one thirteen-year vet (Chavez), one nine-year vet (Ellis), an eight-year guy (Duchscherer), and that's it. Everyone else who has made an appearance with Oakland in 2010 has been on the team for, at most, four years. I know that every team has their Tommy Everidges and their Danny Putnams and their J.J. Furmaniaks (batting like he's never batted before), but is getting rid of half of your roster in two years even close to being remotely normal?
Trading Nick Swisher for Ryan Sweeney, Gio Gonzalez, and Fautino de los Santos was a great move. From a purely win-oriented perspective, it was yet another large and colorful feather in Billy Beane's increasingly peacocky cap. But what about the casual fan? I can't tell you how many times I've been asked by an exasperated casual fan where Swisher went. And where Haren went. And where Mulder went, even. Is it really worth it, in the end, if casual fans don't recognize a single player on the team?
After last night's heartbreaking/frustrating/mind-blowingly silly loss to the Reds, the A's try to climb up off of the floor tonight as Dallas Braden faces Bronson Arroyo at 7:05 PM.
Afterwords
- For the record, aside from Chavez, Ellis, and Duchscherer, we have six four-year players (Barton, Blevins, Braden, Buck, Cust, and Suzuki), six three-year players (Davis, Gonzalez, Patterson, Pennington, Sweeney, and Ziegler), ten two-year players (Anderson, Bailey, Breslow, Cahill, Carson, Kilby, Mazzaro, Powell, Rodriguez, and Wuertz), and thirteen one-year players (Bowers, Crisp, Donaldson, Fox, Gaudin, Gross, Jackson, Kouzmanoff, Ramirez, Rosales, Ross, Sheets, and Tolleson), which make up the 38 players we've used this season.
- The picture, from left to right, top row first: Jerry Blevins, Ryan Sweeney, Bobby Crosby, Rob Bowen, Mike Sweeney, Dan Meyer, Brad Ziegler, Kurt Suzuki, Jack Hannahan, Justin Duchscherer, Greg Smith, Carlos Gonzalez, Jack Cust, Dallas Braden, Alan Embree, Andrew Brown, Sean Gallagher, Santiago Casilla, Keith Foulke, Cliff Pennington, Huston Street, Mark Ellis, Joey Devine, Daric Barton, Frank Thomas, Eric Patterson, Rajai Davis, Eric Chavez, Gio Gonzalez, and Emil Brown. Bonus points if you thought of an old nickname for each player.
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My husband is a non-baseball guy, and this is always his biggest complaint about baseball (the A's really).
We are constantly having arguments where I try to defend the constant roster turnover and trades as good baseball moves, good financially for the organization, etc. But if he doesn’t get it, that means most people don’t get it, because most people aren’t as into the ins and outs of running a baseball franchise as we are.
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
The Front Office certainly isn't catering to the casual fan.
With their recent moves it’s arguable that they’re not catering to the die hard fan either – some of the recent moves have been baffling to say the least.
I can understand where your husband is coming from, it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis.
I personally don’t think the roster turnover is an issue – it’s the poor baseball teams we’ve put out on the field that’s the problem due to a shift in emphasis from contending to reloading.
I’m used to rooting for the young guy making his mark on the Majors, that’s part of the fun of being an A’s fan. I think I’ve just become numb to players being traded away once they become stars.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Awesome
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
France down to 10 men and 2 - nil down to South Africa.
What’s the word, schadenfreude? Mwahahahaha
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
dammit. I'm DVR'ing that...
Thanks a lot, buddy.
by baseline_replacement_commenter on Jun 22, 2010 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions
You might want to stay off the interwebs then.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Alright, riddle me this, Batman...
Are they cutting in with the score from the other group, or just advising that the match is on the other ESPN channel?
by baseline_replacement_commenter on Jun 22, 2010 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions
On the ITV feed I'm watching, they're cutting in with the other score.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
well that means it'll probably be worse over here.
damn. I’ve liked my little ritual of watching the DVR’ed games back to back in the evening.
by baseline_replacement_commenter on Jun 22, 2010 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions
So that's what you've been doing?
I thought maybe you got stuck in one of the unrendered parts of Grand Theft Auto: Reality and couldn’t get out.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
France's performance in this World Cup has been nothing short of uproariously funny
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
England is pretty close behind
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I actually like England
Italy has been fairly laughsome, though.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Have the Italian players staged a mutiny?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
STAY CLASSY, RAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDrq1SM9f_o&feature=player_embedded
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
I saw that
Flat-out unacceptable.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
For many "casual" fans
(who help make attendance respectable) team turnover is a major complaint.
by OaklandSi on Jun 22, 2010 7:51 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I see posters argue "Trade Bailey and Suzuki because they're at max value"
and that’s fine, but those folks need to not act puzzled when the A’s play their home games before 4,000 warm bodies, 31,000 empty seats and acres of tarps. A lot of people want to be able to identify with at least a few “stars”. Several years ago management selected Eric Chavez as the designated “star”, and, well, that hasn’t turned out so great, but I bet if you ask some of those “casual fans” to name one current player on the A’s, you’ll get at least a few responses of “Eric Chavez!…or, wait a minute, he’s still on the team, isn’t he?”
The A’s drew reasonably well several years ago when they hung on to players like Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Giambi and Tejada until they at least neared free agent eligibility.
Pretty much agree. Plus...
…we’re on the verge of contending. Supposedly next season. We’ve reached the point where we need to keep our valuable players if we do want to compete. If we keep trading them away for prospects then we’re always going to keep success at arm’s length and never get there.
Rebuilding, in and of itself, does not thrill me. Winning does. I’ve been willing to tolerate the rebuilding in anticipation of winning. The more it gets pushed back, the less tolerant I’m willing to be.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
How is next season going to be any better than this season?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
2011 is going to be the magical season. Haven't you been paying attention?
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
The good Reverend Billy Lard predicted it a while back
It’s going to be improbable, and it’ll look laughably obvious at times that divine intervention will be involved, but it will be the story of the year, and a whole lot of fun to boot.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 22, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, and the Giants vs Athletics series tell the story
The Giants aren’t as good as the Tampa Bay Rays, but they outdrew the Rays by a huge margin. Why? Because the fans prefer “familiarity” over performance. We all know the best players in the game have their 0-for-4 days, hitting into a couple of DPs. But, if someone does have a great game, at least you want to know something about them. Then you can feel some connection to their performance.
In the mid-80s, my sisters were visiting the Bay Area from out of town, and they said, “Let’s go to an A’s game!” I was shocked! They never talked baseball to me, as adults. This was back in 1984, 85, and the A’s were slowly getting better. We saw some Tiger third baseman hit two HRs and Detroit beat the A’s. My sisters totally lost interest in the game, because they had no knowledge of any players. The A’s players I could talk about were doing zilch that day, and there was little out-and-out baseball excitement. It told me a few things about why people enjoy, and then come back for ballgames.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Tough on Card Collectors
I’ve always been one of those baseball geeks who collects A’s team cards- in fact I have complete team sets for every team since the A’s moved to Oakland in 1968. These are the players I grew up with and it’s interesting to see how the faces change through the years. The only problem with any A’s cards collection for the last decade is that the faces change so frequently, the cards are usually inaccurate by the time they are printed. I guess like most remaining A’s fans, I don’t really pay much attention to the players anymore as I do the team in general. You have to be that way to be a fan of the revolving door A’s I suppose.
The greenmachine
Do they still have updated "Traded" cards?
It’s been years (decades) since I’ve collected, so just wondering.
I would love to see your collection, BTW. Sounds awesome. I have maybe 100 A’s cards from over the years, and barely any since 1991, which, interestingly enough, is the year I got married.
I'm here to talk about the past.
Good question
I’m curious too, given all the focus is on rookies, autos, memorabilia and other inserts. For today’s collector things like team sets are just an exercise in frustration. Thankfully there are things like eBay if you want to get the team sets cheap. Just be wary of condition and shipping price.
As far as I know, they don't call them "Traded" sets anymore
But some of the companies do update sets in the middle of the season.
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
Updated, or "traded" sets, is why I gave up on baseball cards completely.
I’m sure the card companies saw extra money to be made by selling more sets… and I’m sure they did make some more, at least for awhile… but it just turned me off completely. It made it too much of a hassle to keep up with, so I stopped and moved on to other things.
That, and too many companies got involved. People sometimes couldn’t even agree on which card was a rookie card for a given player. Phfft, no thanks.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
The things that turned you off from collecting are pretty funny given the landscape of the hobby these days
But, hey, there’s far fewer companies out there. Of course that just means the couple companies release about 900 products.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
There are fewer companies now, sure, but...
…I’ve long since lost interest and have no desire to go back.
Classic case of market over-saturation.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
and sold like it wasn't
I remember articles treating baseball cards like the antique market. Hold on to those cards and wait, they’ll be worth something! They never mentioned (or cared to apply the forethought to realize) it was only the old cards that weren’t overproduced that this applied to. Although I have to admit it was pretty cool in the early 90’s that almost all the guys in school were into baseball cards, the subsequent unpopularity of them after the predation of the card companies isn’t surprising in retrospect. I’m with you, UncleLeo, no desire to go back.
I believe in 2006 they started using a "rookie card" logo on the fronts of actual rookie cards
to help ease the confusion.
It’s still lame though that they even have to do that.
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
As I remember it...
…it wasn’t just the first card within a company that was a “rookie card”, but supposedly the first card period by ANY SINGLE company that caused alot of the confusion.
But, yeah, this was 15+ years ago that I lost interest. I know the industry has changed, but I just don’t care anymore.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
I can imagine
especially given when some of the sets are released.
Do you only do one brand for each year or do you go for multiples? Is there any place to find team checklists for sets? I have the 1989 Topps set (from a relative, seeding my eventual A’s fandom) but also have enough loose cards I probably have team sets of some other late 80’s and early 90’s sets… just have to pore through the boxes.
I think a lot of roster turnover in fine when the original team sucked (like the 2008 team did)
I’m all for making bad players go away.
All sports have this turnover. Over the past two years, maybe the A’s have had a bit more than most, but I don’t think this is especially strange especially since 2008 was a losing season.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 7:57 AM PDT reply actions
Just took a look at the 2008 White Sox
Of the 39 players who played for them in 2008, only 10 are still on the team.
The 2008 Cubs have 13 of 42 still on the roster, though a couple of their 2008 guys are actually still with the organization, but in the minors.
I only looked at the Chicago teams because I know those rosters enough to not have to consult this year’s, but I think the roster turnover really is common.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Here in Seattle, the Nintendo overlords are very careful
about brand name awareness. You can often have a good sense of which Mariners are tradable and which are not by the marketing investment in them.
Like any team they have plenty of turnover in the lower ranks, and from time to time there will be large-scale overhauls, as there was recently, but the team values fan association with certain “star” names very highly, sometimes more than they value how good the player is. (To the bafflement of the saber types who say with exasperation, “Don’t they know that Richie Sexson sucks??” Yes, of course they know.)
I’m sure that hasn’t always been good for the Mariners’ win-loss record, which has been spotty lately, but you can’t fault their ticket sales.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Ya the Mariners took it to the other extreme
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think people really care about the turnover until you're winning
Well, we’re not winning, and we haven’t won since 2006.
The one thing that stuck with me about Moneyball was the conclusion from the A’s that fans care about winning first, and player names second. The next best thing to care about (players), is likely to be turned over some more this offseason. Even though it might not be good from a organizational perspective, one real quick way to bring back some interest in the team IS to either sign a really high profile guy on the offseason, OR trade for a Dan Uggla-type hitter, and sign him to a long-term deal. Yes, we’d have to give up a lot, but it would reignite interest.
The one thing that the crappy 1995-1999 teams had was HR power. I went to many hundreds of batting practice sessions during those seasons, and rarely did other teams put on the same show as the A’s batters at the time.
Let’s face it, the casual fan cares about HRs, not FIP. The one thing that truly successful teams have in common, over the years, is that they hit for power. Perhaps not coincidentally, this team is sorely lacking in that.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
The most casual fans care about contending
In September, and especially if The team vete into The postseason.
But those in between casual and hardcore need some player recognition over more than a year or two … That’s what I hear from people who used to go to lots of A’s games but no longer.
by OaklandSi on Jun 22, 2010 10:45 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
iPhone seems to have a mind of its own
by OaklandSi on Jun 22, 2010 10:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not sure about Oakland, but here in Seattle
I know several families that go to Mariners games four or five times a year who pay little attention to the standings and really only follow the games they’re actually at. For them a sporting event isn’t like an ongoing hobby, it’s a single outing like going to a concert. They do care about familiar names, and they do care about if the game they happen to pick is an exciting one, but they don’t really care whether the team is contending.
This might be a function of the fact that the Mariners sucked for decades before making the playoffs at all, so the baseball culture here didn’t evolve around the idea of contention.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
If everything about the Mariners was exactly the way it is now, except they played in the Coliseum
I really think things would be a lot different.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
We'd all be Mariner fans?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
their old place was worse.
if not for a rigged election and a magical 1995 run that ended in 2 weeks before said election they would be the tampa bay marine-ers
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Or if, say, Tacoma was bigger and had a major league team of its own?
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Then we'd be Tacoma
It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.
by Englishmajor on Jun 22, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant "bigger" as in "bigger than Tacoma is now"
i.e., not just a suburb of Seattle.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Tacoma is definitely not a suburb of Seattle.
It’s more accurate to say Oakland is a suburb of San Francisco than it is to say Tacoma is a suburb of Seattle.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Someone earlier
equated our former big name players (Big 3, Tejada, Giambi, et al..) to our high attendance, but I disagree, our attendance was as a result of us winning. I can guarantee you that if we had re-signed all those star players and started losing the way we are now, our attendance would plummet. With that said, I do believe that a team like the A’s need to retain at least 2 or 3 anchor players that the casual fan can identify with. When I’m on the road and take in a baseball game in say, in Atlanta, I become the casual fan and the names I recognize are: Chipper Jones, Tim Hudson, and the rookie, Heyward comes to mind. When other casual fans come to Oakland, they can’t name anyone, and no they don’t name Chavez because he hasn’t played and they’re not aware that he’s still on the team. I ran into this scenario last year in San Diego when I wore my Chavez jersey to the games; they were shocked to find out that he was still on the team.
by sf drift king on Jun 22, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd say it's a combination
You have to have guys that stay on the same team for years, and the team has to be “credible”. That is, they have to have a winning record for a couple of years in a row. Kansas City “got hot” a couple of years back, and had a winning record until mid-May, but it did not have staying power for attendance.
Then again, it’s the type of person. My wife wouldn’t know JT Snow from JT the Brick, yet Snow played for the Giants all those years. But she knows Nick Swisher on sight, because of his off-field activities and on-camera interviews.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking of this just the other day in regards to team photos.
It seems that some teams should take a minimum of three photos a year… Opening day, at the All-Star break, and final day of the season. Reality is that this affects all teams to varying degrees anymore. The days of somewhat stable rosters are long gone.
Regarding “rooting for laundry”… this is fine with me. Partially because of today’s roster realities as mentioned above. Partially because I’m a bit older and have been an A’s fan for well over 30 years, so even if the rosters were more stable players themselves get old and retire and come and go, so you get used to it. The casual fan does not understand that at all. I think the younger fan tends to understand that intellectually, but judging from what many of them say, it doesn’t really sink in until later.
Having said all that, there is value to keeping a core of good and popular players as long as a team can. It does help both the casual fans and the rabid fan… even those like me who are fine with ‘rooting for laundry’… interested.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Fox to the Orioles.
Though he’s erroneously labelled as a ‘utility man’.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
The funny part is that DH is listed as one of the positions he can play
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
He's among the best defensive DHs of all time
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
only because
you can’t be credited with an error while running the bases.
…and then I think…“Hey, that’s a missing statistic!! Baserunning errors!”
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
What scrub are we getting in return?
Or no one?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 22, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Ross Wolf, apparently.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
He's from a town in downstate Illinois that really, really hates pork.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We're going up in the world.
A Wolf could totally take a Fox in a fight.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
They're smarter too. Foxes are stupid.
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, this guy looks like he could be useful, especially if Wuertz is all bad at pitching for real.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
At least, he can replace the reliever spot cleared by Demel
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 22, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Fungibility, thy name is Ross Wolf
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I've been thinking about fungible
quite a bit these days, and there it is again.
I sold some of my 1960-62 baseball cards, and I could rationalize it by their “fungibility”. One card is replaceable by any other, given equal condition.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
for the inverse reason
that good beer never ends up lasting long in the refrigerator.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Because I'm hiding in the broom closet until you go to sleep?
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
possible
but improbable.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Roster turnover doesn't bother me
but the player rentals, like Holiday, do. I don’t want anyone who doesn’t want to be in Oakland at the cost of minor league talent. I’d rather wait for the minor league talent to come around since I get to know those guys following them in the minors. Someone put it really well on AN, if they are good and they play for the A’s they are either headed for injury or headed out the door. I just don’t get too attached to anyone doing particularly well for the Athletics.
I agree with most of this, and sum my own view up this way:
I root for the uniform. I can easily attach and disattach from players. Right now, my faves are Barton, Kouzmanoff, Suzuki, Jackson, Gio, and Cahill. How long will that last? Doesn’t matter much to me. If the A’s drop Barton, I’ll root for the next 1B in an A’s uni. I can still root for Ziggy, but I’d rather see him as trade bait, since he doesn’t fit well with our manager’s difficulties utilizing his relief staff. I think other managers would do better, especially if they can read the lineup card and see when 3 righties in a row are coming up! Ours apparently cannot.
Note the inclusion of Jackson. Ahh, how quick I can attach to the right uniform. The guy has had some key hits, caught the ball pretty well in LF, can draw a walk. I’m all about him, this week.
As I noted in another thread, I’m feeling over Cust, who is now a “Two True Outcomes” hitter. I’m very sad about Wuertz, and have no idea what should properly be done with him, except keep him out of ballgames until he can get someone out. (Maybe a stint in AAA to sharpen his stuff at no cost?)
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Roster turnover, in theory, sucks
In practice, especially with the crap teams the A’s have run out the past few years, it’s pretty necessary. By the time this team is really and truly competitive, I fully expect a solid chunk of this current roster edition to be retired (Chavez, Duke), playing for someone else (Sheets, Gross, Ellis, Cust), or seeking work in the thrilling real estate industry (Patterson, Geren God willing).
Personally, I’d love to see a solid amount of turnover with this current team, so long as it would bring in some better-than-average position players. A power bat in RF to push Sweeney to CF and Raj to pinch running, something other than an offensive black hole at SS, etc. This team isn’t that far off, or at least it doesn’t seem to be. It’s just that much more difficult to maneuver into contender status when you haven’t developed a high quality bat since Swisher (full season of Bartonmania pending).
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Ok fine.
But I want Kurt and I want Dale and I’m not budging on those two.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Maybe you should give Forst a call.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Done
Carter has to play DH? Boo-hoo, I say. I like Dale at 1st.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Nice! So stomping my foot impatiently actually works.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I think that's a good call.
If the organization is acknowledging there is value in keeping at least some players to satisfy “casual” fans’ need for continuity, those two are a pretty good core both in terms of fan attachment value and chance of still playing well.
But in that case, they should cool it with the use-up-Kurt’s-knees-now plan.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Yeah. Use Landon's knees.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I like Kurt, but I think pretty much everyone here would agree
that giving him a day off and starting Landon every five or six days would be a good idea.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Isn't Sweeney a below average CFer?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
0.8 UZR/150 in just under 900 career innings.
Nothing special, but honestly with his knees starting to fail him I’m kinda worried about that…
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If the knee thing is a long-term affliction, I'm with you
Otherwise, Sweeney playing a competent CF with a .300/.350/.400 is alright by me. And to me, Raj is the perfect 4th outfielder— good defense and great speed that (1) makes his bat at least somewhat playable when giving somebody else a rest, and (2) makes him a prime pinch run/defense replacement candidate.
Jackson-Sweeney-Taylor (assuming he can hit) wouldn’t bother me a bit. Especially with Davis (and if I really had my druthers, Buck) on the bench.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
It sounds like you're saying
Patterson will be gone if the Geren God is willing.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I can't see him surviving the Crisp arrival
Unless they dump Gross instead
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
So they'll do it?
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
That would...seriously make me question investing any more time/money into this team the rest of the year.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Probably Patterson
I do think Patterson is the most likely to go, but there are some things in his favor over Gross:
1) Infielders: If Patterson is DFA’d, the roster will have 6 OF and only one backup IF in Rosales.
2) Pinch Running – He’s 6/6 in SB, and is a useful PR for Cust, Powell, etc.
3) 3rd on team in SLG – behind only Suzuki and Kouz, but ahead of Barton, Sweeney, Rosales, Cust, etc.
4) .781 OPS against RHP – second on the team, behind only Suzuki
Answers
1. In case of emergency, you can shift people around at least til the end of the game. Rajai Davis or Coco Crisp can finish out the game at 2B, and then someone can be called up.
2. Patterson is replaced by Crisp, so you’re substituting a runner for a runner. Gross or Davis or Jackson can PR, depending on who’s starting.
3. A high SLG is what happens when you have a couple of fluke homers and the rest of the team has no power.
4. See (3). This is only a serious argument if you’re thinking of DFA’ing Cust instead of Patterson on the grounds that Patterson has more power. Which is insane.
Jackson has played some third
not a lot. but some. And 1st.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
Geren being omnipotent is the only explanation for his continued employment
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
by Joey C. on Jun 22, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So are the A's gonna call up Wolf or what
What’s the point of acquiring a reliever doing well in AAA and not calling him up on a team seriously lacking bullpen depth
Someone will go down soon enough.
My guess is he’s first in line next time a fresh arm is needed, but they won’t actually demote someone deliberately. But something is bound to happen soon.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
From the roto world bar on the side
it sounds like he will be up here soon
by OldYoungMan on Jun 22, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
It's cool that Dan directs the reader away from his article right after the title
it’s tough to ‘support the laundry’, especially when the teams are losing on a consistent basis. - OldhamA
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 22, 2010 11:15 AM PDT reply actions
Heh.
The Fanpost beat me to the punch, so cutting out the Fanpost and putting discussion here would kinda suck.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Nice Furmaniak link, BTW.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Heh.
Figured you’d get a kick out of that.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Wow.
People actually bought those?
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
might be a family member?
or the only game-worn he could afford? I didn’t talk to the guy as I was too busy watching Bob Geren ruin my vacation.
So we go from Star Fox to Star Wolf?
@MAD_Marvin
The FairWeather Channel - Sports Comics and Bandwagon Forecast
a N64 reference!
or a smash bros reference. me likey.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Can't let you do that, Jake Fox.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Perhaps we're gaining a Courage Wolf
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
A couple random thoughts while reading this thread
Casual fans love winning, love star players, and love HRs/Strikeouts.
(well, all fans love those things but casual fans rarely find enjoyment in other baseball things IMO)
Casual fans can follow position players much better than pitchers because they see them more often, which hurts the A’s with fans because they have lacked star hitters in the last few years. When I think of a “Star Hitter” I’m think .300 avg, 25+ HR, 100+ RBI or some combo of at least 2 of those. Someone with 30-40+ steals and/or .300 avg/100 runs would also qualify I think. I think a 30+ HR hitter without high avg or rbi would qualify as a star hitter to casual fans.
The closest thing to a star hitter this year is Suzuki and Kouz, which is sad.
In 2009 we had Cust flirt with star power and Holliday for 93 games but he didn’t hit like a “star” while in Oakland (yes he hit very well but his grand slam against the Twins was his only “star” hit).
In 2008 Cust had the 30 HR casual fan happy but the rest of the team SUCKED, (Wow how did I watch that team?).
In 2007 I think Cust qualified as a Star hitter despite not reaching the totals because he only played in 124 games. Swisher’s personality was probably enough to push him to a star in the casual fans mind that year as well.
Finally, all the way back in 2006 we had a true Star Hitter in Frank Thomas and Nick Swisher (just barely under 100 rbi but with 35 HR and the personality he qualifies). Even Milton Bradley flashed star potential in his limited time.
Obvious conclusion – The A’s either need to win or get another Star Hitter to put butts in the seats.
My wife isn’t a huge fan, she likes the A’s because I do but doesn’t really like baseball in general. She sees and hears a lot about the A’s from me but only rentains a little info about the team. She recognizes Chavez (always been her favorite player), Ellis, Rajai (we discovered last night that we only call him Rajai, never just Davis or never Rajai Davis), Cust, Suzuki (b/c he looks like our brother-in-law), Ziegler (b/c of the way he pitches like Chad Bradford), and maybe Kouzmanoff. Whenever she sees Barton all she can think about is Hatterberg because Hatty wore #10. She really misses Nick Swisher.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I think "casual fans" care about individual players far, far less than you think
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
How so?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
"Hey, the A's won! Cool"
“Hey, the A’s barely hung on to beat Anaheim, Bailey got the save, Kouz went 3-4, Rajai stole a base, and Barton hit 2 doubles!”
Which one is a casual fan?
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That doesn't really tell me anything.
You’re just framing scenarios to fit your argument.
Case in point:
“Hey, let’s go see Stephen Strasburg pitch against Tim Lincecum!”
Doesn’t that sound like a casual fan as well?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
More like,
“Hey, let’s go see the awesome new guy versus the pothead!”
I’m with Mike — winning first, players second.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 22, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah, I'm sure even the most casual of fans know the name Strasburg.
And casual fans know Lincecum more for being Lincecum than the pot issue.
I think names, especially star level ones, matter a great deal to the casual fan. Of course, winning does as well, but I’m refuting thejd44’s assertion that there’s that big of a difference.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
winning is most definitly 1st
but the combo is where you see the biggest fan interest IMO.
Perhaps casual fan is too broad a spectrum. There are quite a few varying degrees of fans.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Not winning, actually --
winning last year! There’s the ol’ attendance delay.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
before I became an A's fan
I was a casual fan who went to A’s games. I knew some of the names but couldn’t care less what was really happening on the field; I was busy talking to my friends in the stands and loved cheering when someone hit a HR or when something controversial happened, ie, ref /coach argument, etc.. But that all changed when this team who I thought was a scrub team in 1999 started winning. I remember watching sportscenter one night to find that the A’s to my surprise were just 4 games out of the wild card. That got my attention and I started following the team more closely and now I’m hooked on the team.
And unlike other casual A’s fans, I understand the team’s philosophy and the challenging dynamics involved in running this franchise. It bugs me to listen to casual fans rant on the CT show after a loss because they think the team should just break out the check book and sign an Albert Pujols.
by sf drift king on Jun 22, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, a casual fan is going to know the name of the zomg best prospect evar and the 2 time reigning CY winner
before they know who the centerfielder on the 3rd place team in the LA west are.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
You mean that guy on the Culver City Cookoos?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I guess I'm thinking of fans who actually make it out to a handful of games.
that makes a difference.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I have plenty of friends who go to games just to go tailgate, grab a dog and a beer, and be at the yard for a few hours.
Having a “big name” to draw fans – Strasburg and Lincecum were mentioned above – it’s not as sustainable as winning.
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True
but winning and having good players seem to go hand and hand so maybe it’s a catch-22? If we had to rank things that draw casual fan interest/buzz where would we put them?
1. Winning!
2. Stadium
3. Entertaining players/good players
or
1. Winning!
2. Entertaining Players/good players
3. Stadium
If we are talking attendance numbers you have to add things like giveaways, promotions, fireworks, parking, food, weather, location of stadium, population.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Winning and "good" players go together
when we acknowledge that the best known names aren’t always the best players in terms of WAR.
The reason well-known players and winning go together is because when a team wins a lot, people start paying attention to the names and they become name players.
Maybe it’s my Seattle bias again, but I’m convinced that having name players is more a matter of marketing than having good players. People up here were saying “ooh, Yuniesky!” “ooh Willie Bloomquist!” Was Bloomquist ever good? I don’t think so. But he was a guy people recognized.
The A’s do a crappy job of promoting their players. Maybe it’s because Oakland is a non-baseball-oriented market and it’s just too much an uphill battle, I don’t know. But I definitely think this is more a marketing failure than a lack of marketable players. They could be pushing Rajai, Daric, Kooz, Ellis, etc. It has nothing to do with those guys being not good enough or not already-famous enough. You make them famous. That’s the whole point.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I would agree
except when it comes to superstar players.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Casual fans want to see star players do things on offense
No casual fan wants to sit through a 1-0 game. They wan to see Prince Fielder jack the shit out a ball or just see lots of runs scored someway.
So they care about individual players that are really good on offense. So basically no one on the A’s.
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
I kinda disagree
If you’re talking about 2 teams that stink and can’t score (M’s / A’s), then yeah, nobody wants to see that, but if you’re talking about a Nationals team eeking out a 1-0 win when Strasburg is pitching, then that’s a different story.
by sf drift king on Jun 22, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, Strasburg is the exception to the rule though.
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
depends on the player
A really fast guy like Rajai can make fans interested. A guy who hit she really far HRs makes fans excited. I’m not talking about average players, I’m talking about star to superstar players. Fans cared about Giambi and Tejada, Swisher and Thomas a ton. The A’s have not had that since Swish left. Fans even latched on to not so great players like Scutaro because of a few big hits.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
you wife actually knows a lot
minor quibble, I think casual fans hate Cust because strickout, KK and vince talk about strickout a lot.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
not compared to what she knew when the team was winning and had better hitters
true about Cust though, all the more reason the A’s have had poor attendance numbers. No winning, no star players, no fans (at least in Oakland, places like KC and Pittsburg don’t have as much attendance problems right? Stadiums come in to play as well).
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
OT
Grant Green named to Futures Game in Anaheim.
Anyone know why he’s been DHing so much lately and not playing the field?
The bad defense is likely because of the sore shoulder
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on Jun 22, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
When you're dead who cares if they turn you over
The team, because of budgetary constraints, consists of has beens, the mediocre, and the young and hopeful (who if they turn into stars get dumped because of their salary). So what management does is turn over and turn over hoping to find someone, anyone, who can play decently.
They are hoping for miracles, really. That’s what more or less happened with Kouzmanoff. Then they hope to get lucky in the draft like they did with Chavez (until he got hurt), Zito, Mulder, and Hudson. Maybe they pick up a young Latin player who shines like Tejada. But without extreme luck with the draft, this team doesn’t stand a chance because it can’t afford to buy decent free agents.
Right now, it’s a shell game. You bring in a risk like Sheets. His arm more or less holds up – a miracle in itself – but that bet turns sour. You bring in Fox and he’s worse than horrible. So you dump him. Find someone else for cheap. Dump them when they don’t play above their head. Rinse. Repeat. Rinse. Repeat.
Some day, sometime, an A’s draft pick is going to shine offensively and play for a few years in an A’s uniform before he gets traded. The team will look a whole lot better when that happens. It hasn’t happened in a long while. It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen anytime soon. Choice’s swing looks like crap. But miracles do happen.
For the record, I care.
When I’m dead, do NOT turn me over. I sleep on my right side. Period.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
My favorite part about the '08 team:
having 3 pairs of guys with the same last name. Carlos and Gio Gonzalez, Ryan and Mike Sweeney, Andrew and Emil Brown. That’s gotta be some sort of record.
Huh. That's definitely a lowlight.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Which was the year when it was possible to
field a whole team made up of just Marks, Erics, and Bobbys? That was fun.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The A's have decided to bring Coco Crisp back up
He was getting ready to go with the River Cats to Las Vegas to finish out his rehab but it’s being reported he’s back in Oakland and will be hitting leadoff tonight.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
LOL!
If it were in my power I’d grant your wish.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Heh. I actually said it under my breath at my desk.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Not as powerful as "Mr Omnipotent"
that would be Bob Geren.
…see comment further up…
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, though Crisp didn't need any more time with Sacramento with the bat
He hit nearly .600 overall.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Poor Rajai, swinging at THE FIRST BLOODY PITCH EVERY DAMN TIME.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Woohoo!
pleasegetridofpattersonohpleaseohpleaseohplease
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 22, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
joestiglich
Surprise, surprise … Coco is leading off and playing CF tonite for #Athletics 4 minutes ago via mobile web
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 22, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, made no sense for him to go to Vegas.
Gross DHing is not a good sign….Cust DFA?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
would they seriously....
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
...at this point, I wouldn't put it past them.
AN would explode.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 22, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe internally combust.
It could spell the end for all of us.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Crisp CF, Barton 1B, Jackson LF, Suzuki C, Sweeney RF, Kouzmanoff 3B, Gross DH, Ellis 2B, Pennington SS, Braden
huh.
that makes zero sense.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I would seriously barf.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
are you having an argument with yourself?
it’s kinda cute.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
KINDA cute.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
She also called Tommy Everidge cute, so y'know....
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
He IS cute!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Oh holy shit.
For the love of god no.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
A's are reporting the corresponding move is to follow, so it's not all official just yet
Last of the Ninth - Photography
I'm refreshing the Twitters as fast as I can.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
That's refreshing.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
SuSlu's out sick... and tweeting about the Sharks.
Who cares about hockey at a time like this?!
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 22, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I love how we bat our DHs 7th
As in, “Their only function is to hit and we realize they aren’t even that great at it.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I've no idea why he's DHing instead of Cust though.
Surely Gross’ greatest value is in the field. If he’s going to play wouldn’t it be better to DH Jackson and have Gross play LF?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I keep googling "Patterson DFA kick puppies baby eat"
hoping for breaking news.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
REJOICE
OaklandAs
#Athletics
designate Eric Patterson for assignment to clear a spot for Crisp.
2s ago
via UberTwitter
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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FINALLY
the patterson and fox experiment in Oakland is ovah!
by sf drift king on Jun 22, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
oh no!
one of our SLG leaders has been dropped! We’re all gonna die!
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
I seriously think I just shed a tear of joy.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
When I saw the tweet,
I sighed audibly — I may have been inadvertently holding my breath for the last 10 minutes.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 22, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm making snow angels in my carpet.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
If it's yellow let them mellow.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 22, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm writing 'DFA' in the snow with my...
…er, wait. It’s not snowing here.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
PATTERSON DF ODNSMVLKSJDNVKSNVNDF DSFNDLK YES
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
Front page post updated!
Happiest words I’ve ever had to type.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Both LF and 2B should have the (ish) designation.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
PATTERSON DFA
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
I have a picture of him
shaking hands with my Mom!
“Thanks, Lucy!” (1962 failed gov run)
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
healthy the rest of the season of course!
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
save it mikev, you might need it, the season is still young
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, who's our new scapegoat?
Besides the Dutch, I mean.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
WUERTZ!
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
In all fairness, don't all teams go through some major turnover if they are unsucessful?
The Yankees are always going for a WS title, in 2008, how much of their roster is left (besides Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Arod)? Most of the remaining were all rookies of some sort who barely played.
I think at this point
We should go with an outfield of Davis, Crisp, and Sweeney, and DH Jackson
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
Gross is 9-26 lifetime against Arroyo with 2 HRs...that's why he's starting.
But yeah, he should be in the field over Jackson.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 22, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant on an everyday basis
Not just tonight
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
Maybe the A's feel they need Jackson to get familiar with LF in Oakland
That alone justifies it, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Maybe the A's feel Jackson is a starter and Gross is a 4th OF
and just want to get his bat in against a guy he’s had success against
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FUCK YES
TODAY IS A GOOD DAY!!! BYEBYE E-PAT
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
Understated, that guy.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Hold your breath!
OaklandAs
#Athletics Coco Crisp about to take batting practice. http://tweetphoto.com/28602890
less than 5 seconds ago via UberTwitter
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
::crosses fingers::
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
achoo!
shit
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, that wasn't your nose.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
bingo
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
IS IT FINALLY CHRISTMAS???!?!?!
it sure is starting to feel like it!..
P.S.
Those first 72 games were just an extended spring training..now that our real line-up is all here the 2010 A’s season begins!
by HeavyHitters510 on Jun 22, 2010 4:42 PM PDT reply actions
Damnit, I have hope again.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I'm actually tempted to go to the game now
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by mikev on Jun 22, 2010 4:46 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Me too.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Well, come find me in the LFB if you do
unless you’re all too busy hanging over the entrance to the clubhouse tunnel yelling “Hey, is he gone yet?”
It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.
by Englishmajor on Jun 22, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I would, but, I just dropped a bunch of money on some retail therapy.
I should wait until Saturday.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
What a fucking load of bullshit. $9 "convenience fee" for 2 value deck tickets
so 33 bucks instead of 24?
HORRIBLE.
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Just walk up.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
It's a bit farther for me than it is for you, doll.
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NO!
Anthro sale. I was bad. Really bad. But….it was all on sale?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
That makes it okay!
Especially because you HAVE to take advantage of sales at Anthropologie. Everything there is so pretty.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 22, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks, Shoes.
Yes, it was all on sale. And I’m sure some of it won’t fit so I’ll have to return it. Plus I got a really cute dress.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Well I know the season's been tough lately
But, for the first time in a while, I actually feel good about this team. I think Crisp can be the spark he showed the potential of being in that SF series, and no more Fox and Patterson means addition by subtraction. We just have to string together a few winning series (not an extremely difficult task considering our three upcoming opponents), and be in the race at the All-Star break, after which Anderson will return. The keys: Stay healthy (CRISP, ANDERSON), get some guys returning from injury (DEVINE, OUTMAN), and possibly adding a couple of pieces to our bullpen. Oh, and there’s no time to start stringing together some wins like tonight! I will be keeping close tabs on Texas/LAA for a the next couple of weeks, and hoping our boys can climb back in this thing. Go A’s!
Jack "The Must, Just has no Rust, ain't no Bust, after him the ladies Lust, turns pitchers into Dust, likes his pizza with no Crust" Cust
I hope they do string together some wins!
I can’t believe it has been almost 4 weeks since this team has won even 2 games in a row.
it's just a flesh wound
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
That's tonight's starting pitcher
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
that's our motto
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
every loss
is just a “fresh wound”.
Blez: Most folks seem to believe that the big flaw with the 2010 Oakland A's will be the lack of any power.
Beane: They believe it because it's true.
by One won lost won on Jun 22, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
but what has to happen more than anything is that our starting pitching needs to give us quality starts, esp with the way our bp has been pitching. I like the addition of CoJack; he gives us another legitimate hitter. It appears that he’s healthy again. Anderson, IMO, is the key. The earlier he returns the better. I have a hard time believing that we can get back in the race with the likes of Mazarro, Sheets, and Braden. They don’t currently inspire a lot of confidence.
by sf drift king on Jun 22, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
The 2010 A's are undefeated with Crisp on the roster
That is all.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm sold!
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
we do get hot in the 2nd half
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
but that's after they get bothered in the 1st half.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on Jun 22, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions
and we already did that
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 22, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
they're bothering me a lot.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I BELIEVE
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I haven't seen this much rejoicing since Emil Brown left town
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Emil Brown! DFA!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I have to admit this DFA made me a little more happy than the Brown DFA
Brown was slightly (very slightly) more useful than Patterson.
Tonight is free parking, too???
hrmm. I may have to do it.
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Fuck it, I'm going. I'll get tickets for me and the boy when I get there.
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Yay! Have fun.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Have a beer and a dog for me
since I may not be home before the season ends.
Sigh.
susanslusser
Filling in on the #Athletics tonight: Ray Ratto. That should be entertaining, so see SFGate.com later tonight or the Chronicle tomorrow.
The last couple Slusser-less weeks have reminded me just how much better she is than everyone else at the Chron.
damn, I dont like that
The A's are a fairly quiet team, and then there's Ben Sheets. Sheets, as a kid, must have been thrown out of every library in Baton Rouge. ~ Scott Ostler
I like that SuSlu knows it wont end well.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Wow. Well at least Patterson or none of his relatives read AN, right?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
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