Managing 101: A Course Not Passed By Mr. Geren
by Nico on Jun 17, 2010 8:46 PM PDT
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Print#1: Your best relievers. When you don't have a lot of relievers you can count on -- and this is usually the case -- you cannot burn good relievers to get one or two outs. In today's game, the A's used their 4 best relievers (Breslow, Ziegler, Wuertz, Bailey) to get all of 6 outs. That's absurd. Most notably, even though only Breslow and Bailey have been throwing at all well the past few weeks, Breslow was yanked after facing one hitter, Bailey after facing two.
#2: The intentional walk. The intentional walk only makes sense when it trades a very good hitter for a poor hitter. No matter what the situation -- whether a walk will set up a DP, whether the batter or on-deck hitter is LH or RH -- it never makes sense to walk a bad hitter like, say, Koyie Hill, nor is it good practice to issue a walk in order to face another good hitter. Walks are generally bad. More baserunners are generally bad.
#3: The bunt: The bunt only makes sense when it "sacrifices" a poor hitter and sets the table for two better ones. Asking Mark Ellis to bunt today was a bad idea because Ellis is a better hitter than Cliff Pennington or Gabe Gross.
The mistakes made today with the bullpen are too numerous to count, but let's count them anyway:
* Breslow absolutely should have started the 8th inning, since he finished the 7th having faced (and completely dominated) only one hitter and he is almost alone in being an A's reliever who is actually pitching well this month.
* Having pitched exactly 3 times in the last 12 games, Andrew Bailey should have been brought in -- if not to start the 8th -- at the very, very latest to face Derrek Lee with two on and one out, where if he could get two outs any which way he could preserve the lead. Bringing Bailey in where a sac fly would tie the game was like closing the barn door while the horse is halfway in and halfway out Well it's different in that one involves losing a lead despite pitching well and one involves a lot of squealing and tampering of evidence before the SPCA arrives, but you get the point.
* Given that Bailey was leading off the 9th because, well, Bob Geren forgot that Ryan Sweeney doesn't throw a 91MPH cutter, under no circumstances should Bailey have been pinch hit for to start the 9th. At that point the A's knew that if they didn't score they HAD to shut the Cubs out in the bottom of the 9th and that even if they did score they had to preserve the lead in the bottom half. Either scenario urgently called for Bailey, especially since -- thanks to violation of point #1 above -- Breslow, Ziegler, and Wuertz were, unnecessarily, all out of the game.
And this list of grievances doesn't even include the well documented blunder of not doing a double-switch that could have avoided the "Bailey problem" altogether.
Conclusion: Bob Geren is overmatched by the demands of National League managing. Unfortunately, he also happens to be largely overmatched by the demands of American League managing, where you try to avoid intentionally walking the winning run when the winning run is just trying to keep his breakfast down. Even more unfortunately, Billy Beane appears to be blind to the limitations of two people and they happen to be Eric Chavez and Bob Geren, so expect more of the same until further notice.
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He is holding us back
We are by no means a great team, but if we were managed by even a halfway competent manager we would be leading the AL West.
I wouldn't go that far
Our offense is truly bad, and that’s what’s holding us back right now
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Jun 17, 2010 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far
Leading the AL West now is 10 games over .500. Like it or not, the AL West is not a bunch of .500 teams. It’s two teams distancing themselves from .500, then the A’s, and then the M’s.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I am still going that far
How many games has he absolutely blown this year with horrendous bullpen management? I have to believe that the number is well over 6, which would put us right in the mix of leading the AL West.
Also, his in game management is so bad that it takes away from his atrocious lineup decisions. His lineup cards are a complete adventure on a daily basis. He has to go and soon so that we can still make something of this season,
I'd say, maybe one.
Mostly, games blown by the bullpen have been the result of relievers pitching badly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
So you are saying
that outside of today’s game he hasn’t cost us another game all season with terrible managerial decisions. I will disagree with that assessment.
Relievers have pitched badly because they were put in terrible situations by their manager. He has been bailed out by walk offs numerous times as well. I will give you that we would present any manager with personnel/injury problems, but Geren is just awful.
Just not enough trusted relievers right now
The A’s really need Wuertz to become a dominant reliever again. Otherwise, it’s really just Bailey and Breslow that are trusted right now, and Ziegler against RHP.
If the A’s are going to pull Ziegler every time a tough lefty comes up, and put in Breslow, they’re going to run out of quality pitchers every time. Maybe Devine will help in a month.
The solution is rather obvious:
You ask Breslow and Bailey to combine for more than 3 batters between them. Given how well Breslow has been throwing to both LHs and RHs lately and how seldom Bailey has pitched at all lately, Geren should have been looking to Breslow for about 1 inning, and Bailey for about 2 innings.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I agree
The problem is that they are still acting like Wuertz is the go-to pitcher for the 8th inning.
I don't even have a problem with that
when it’s necessary (e.g., certain pitchers are tired). Currently, I’d sooner see Wuertz in the 8th against a group of LHs than see Ziggy there, if those are the two choices. But Breslow (right now) and Bailey (always) need to be used more; doing that will inherently cause Wuertz and Ziggy to be stretched less.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't see that
Assume Wuertz loads the bases with one out, because he could do that in any inning where he’s pitching poorly, in the 7th. How is this really different?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ziggy would have had to face lefties no doubt
too lazy to look but I think Wuertz had faced a lefty
Correct. Retired two of three.
Then Colvin pinch hit and Breslow came in.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
And Geren handled that part perfectly
It was what came after that wasn’t.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Agreed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
8th Inning
The Cubs had Theriot, Baker, Byrd, Lee, Nady (all righties) scheduled to bat in the 8th. Do you think it would have been better to leave Breslow in for the 8th, or go to Wuertz?
Leave Breslow in and go batter to batter.
I wouldn’t PUT Breslow in there, but I would LEAVE him in there. The difference being once he’s in, he can’t be put in later. It’s use him or lose him.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who was after Colvin? A right hander?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Theriot, so yes.
Colvin HRed off Ziggy on Tuesday. But so did your grandmother if she’s left-handed.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No I was just wondering what 'The Book' says about walking Colvin
to get to Theriot.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Are you saying that Ziggy should have walked Colvin intentionally?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 17, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
There was a runner at 1B and two outs
The Book would say, “Noooooooooooo.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Ah. Didn't know that.
Wasn’t here for that part of the game, and I refuse to watch the highlights.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
My Grandma's a righty.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 17, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
hullo!
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 17, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Hi, beautiful.
You are in a very beautiful part of Arizona.
Arizona is so awesome, except for the people. (kinda like Mississippi)
I would be envious if it weren’t summer.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2010 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
It's SO MUCH better here, k.
It’s not even close. This isn’t bad. No humidity. I’m excited.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 18, 2010 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions
So just the opposite of the Bay Area then?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
You think the Bay Area is ugly?
Or am I not understanding your comment?
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
You are understanding correctly.
I dislike the pervasive golden brown tinge.
There are a few parts I like, though.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I have to admit
that the summer brown hills of the Altamont pass are not my favorite, but I feel pretty darn fortunate to live here (for the next 7 weeks anyway) when I am at Joaquin Miller Park overlooking the Bay and SF, or at Mt. Tamalpais looking around Marin and over to the East Bay, or driving down 280 past Crystal Springs reservoir. I may be biased by having grown up here, and I adore the Pacific Northwest, but this place can be pretty beautiful.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
One thing I miss about the Bay Area
is easy access to high points looking down. There’s hills here, and plenty of places to look at the Sound, but it’s about a 45-minute drive to get to the nearest panoramic view comparable to the ones that are abundant in the Bay Area.
On the flip side, what I missed down there were lakes and rivers. Up here there’s creeks and ponds all over the place, but they’re in the Bay Area they’re scarce and exceptional. And I’m not even sure where the nearest good-sized river is. Russian?
And of course the green. I need evergreen trees. Down there you can go seek them out in the right places, but here they’re just everywhere.
I didn’t grow up in either place, and even now I still think of Oakland as my “hometown”, but it’s not more beautiful than Alaska nor the PNW to me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Sacramento river
I assume you meant a river you could actually do stuff in though.
Not do stuff in
but one that actually flows pleasingly and hasn’t been sucked dry by irrigation.
I like the Sacramento higher up, near Lake Shasta.
Anyway, I think the Russian is nearer than the Sacramento.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
depends on where the bay ends
and the Sacramento starts.
If you are less picky, there are all sorts of streams closer by – Point Reyes, Big Basin, etc.
I was thinking from Oakland.
As for smaller streams, Bay Area creeks are chicken-shit. I mean, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the ones you name, but you’re talking about road trips to get to them. From where I live now I can walk to a decent creek. And from work I can walk to another one. They’re everywhere. If I’m going to take a road trip, I want a real river, but again it’s so much farther to go. I love the Klamath, but that’s pretty much a full day.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
move to seattle
Capitol Hill, Queen anne, first hill. Great views of the sound. My last apt there had a great downtown view including Elliot bay $700 a month with parking. The first apt looked over the space need;e and downtown.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
I think if you want a good, close high Seattle view, it's the Space Needle
Which, of course, costs money to go to the top of.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Heh, no.
I don’t want a view from my window. I want somewhere nice to drive and park and look down over the City, like Grizzly Peak, or Merritt College, or even Twin Peaks when it isn’t crowded with tourists.
The places you mention are all … well, let’s just say parking is scarce.
I’m not a city boy. I avoid going south of the ship canal if I can help it. I will venture to Capitol Hill when there’s a concert there I want to see, but in general Capitol Hill is kind of like hell to me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Bingo.
The bullpen is 24th out of 30th teams in FIP.
This just isn’t a good bullpen right now.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 17, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Remember when it was going to be the best in all of baseball?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'll tell you the crucial pitch in the whole game
It was the 1-2 hanging slider to Fukudome. Wuertz had thrown two “vintage Wuertz” sliders that Fukudome couldn’t recognize and waved at and Wuertz had him “dead to rights” with another one — but he hung it out over the plate. Bury that slider like I’m sure he meant to and the A’s probably go on to win the game.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I watched the highlights
and I was mad that Bailey got a Blown Save for getting 2 outs. After watching not quite as mad as that pitch should have been hit for a Grand Slam. I bet he would have liked that one back. But anyway, Bailey has been great and it’s sad to see that he has 2 of his 3 blown saves because of the previous pitcher(s). Both of them sac fly’s and both of them where he got both outs.
I wouldn't say he's caused a certai number of games by several decisions in one game
But consider the things he’s done that have completely backfired: reliever mismanagement, substitutions and switches, etc.
Just thinking back, I can name quite a few decisions that we’ve picked scratched our heads at in game previews, open threads, and recaps…
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 17, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just disputing the notion that it's 6 games worth of bad managing
Even players generally don’t have that much impact in a full season. And as unpopular as it is to say round these here parts, I think that for most of the season Bob Geren has managed the bullpen pretty well. Lately, not so much. Today, ridiculous.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well... look at what you wrote
All of it is true. And this is more of a symptom of bigger things. Now can anyone say 6 games? Well no. But what did today’s game cost us in terms of bullpen use for tomorrow’s game or the next game? There have been cases where his mismanagement of the bullpen or his roster in general has lend him to have to make correctional decision (also of poor quality) and further misuse his bullpen because he simply didn’t have the guy(s) he used wrong the night before the next day. Personally, I think the number of games he’s cost us is upwards of 10 or more. Does that mean 10 more wins? Absolutely not. That just means there were 10+ games that had they been correctly managed may have at the very least put us in a better opportunity to win. In the end, it’s still a weak team that even the correct moves would have still led to the same results. So in actual win/lose, he’s cost us between 0 and 2 or 3 wins that we would have had, but his impact has been felt well beyond the handful of horrendously managed games.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Yes and no --
Basically, if your analysis is exactly right the “between 0 and 2 or 3” is the number that matters, not 10+. However, what isn’t getting as much mention right now is Geren’s “leadership” — the fact that his players neither like nor respect him (and I can corroborate mrod’s account) — and the immeasurable, but very real, impact this is having on the team.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
If he's lost the team....
…the rest doesn’t matter. That’s when managers are replaced.
I'm pretty sure he's lost it.
But I’m not quite inside enough to know that for sure.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well the thing is what happens in those 10+ games
back when he makes these moves are unknowns. No one can say for sure what happens in any of those games. You can only really go back and look at what actually happened without being able to truly envision what would have happened as a result of the ripple effect. It’s like what happens if Barton doesn’t bunt in the first. Well, we know what happens after he bunts, the next batter hits a homer. But we’ll never know if he swung away whether he gets on. Whether if he does or doesn’t get on the next batter still hits the home run. That’s the real pitfall with looking at his decisions. You really can’t base the job he’s done on that number of actual wins we could have gotten but on how many games he’s negatively effected. Just like you can’t base a good manager on how many wins he’s gotten the team so much as how many games he’s positively effected.
And if he doesn’t have the players respect as a leader, well that just adds to the negative impact.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Overall, I think Geren's pretty mediocre but above average compared to the dreck out there posing as managers..
Of course, mediocre describes pretty much every facet of the A’s right now.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 17, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
What strengths does he have to make him above average?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 5:29 AM PDT up reply actions
the fact that other ML managers are worse
There seems to be a pervasive attitude in MLB that managers have to be “baseball people” in order to have the respect of the players. Unfortunately, baseball people never seem to understand the maths that would lead to better decision making and more run production/prevention. The tend to go with their gut and conventional wisdom.
I have no if a non baseball person can effectively manage the team because its never been tried. I also have no idea what happens when the team does not “respect” the manager. It seems like their might be bad moral, but baseball is such an individual sport, that it should not have any effect on the persons play, or a marginal effect at any rate.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
In what way is any other manager worse?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I can't speak for others
but an example that comes to mind is the mindless use of the closer in the 9th inning when up by 1-3 runs. Geren at least occasionally uses Bailey unconventionally well (such as bringing him in in the tenth, although I also would have liked to see him one batter earlier), and sometimes he shuffles the lineup in interesting ways. I also think he bunts with Barton stupidly, but he is certainly not the only one.
this for me
add to that running out worse players because of some intangible (see napoli, mike, or when Girardi thought Nady was a better option than Swisher, or putting abreu and or Matsui in the out field.)
Or baserunning. There seems to be an emphasis on making things happen with a lot of managers. this is counter productive.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
The manager's most important job (and what has the greatest effect on the game) is managing the bullpen.
Overall, I think he’s managed the bullpen pretty well this year (obviously, yesterday was a huge exception). I think you have to give him some credit for how well the team’s done in one run games, even with a bullpen that’s been pretty below average and hit with injuries. On the TV broadcast two days ago, they mentioned how the A’s were 24-0 when leading after 6 innings. Part of that is Geren utilizing his pitchers well.
For the most part, his lineups have been fine though I’d be batting Cust higher. Strategically, he’s pretty bad but it could be a lot worse (see Washington, Ron). I won’t comment on the leadership part since that’s just speculation, projection from people who just don’t like the guy, and hearsay at this point. So he does two things well, one thing bad, and one thing questionable. Hence, mediocre overall, but above average compared to the other options out there.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 18, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Think about what you're saying here.
6 games is a HUGE difference. You’re basically assuming that Geren is replacement level and (hypothetical better manager) is worth 6 WAR. That’s ridiculous. The players, you know, the dudes who actually matter the most when it comes to wins and losses, who put up 6 WAR seasons are beyond All Star level.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 17, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Players have to be put in positions where they can succeed
Geren puts players in positions to fail time and again. I am not going to lie, I don’t know what WAR stands for but I have watched 95 percent of this teams games via the MLB gametracker and I have pulled my hair out during most of our losses. We have lost a ton of close games this year and decisions to bunt in the first, putting the wrong reliever in at the wrong time, putting terrible lineups out on the field and generally being an awful manager costs you a lot when you are losing close, low scoring games.
The A's are 11-6 in one run games this year. That's a .647 winning percentage.
It’s also the best mark in the American League. Overall, they’re second in the league in one run games, behind only the Dodgers (15-7).
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 17, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
He has totally mismanaged the five run games!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I know there's statistical data that suggests any manager is interchangeable.
But surely that’s based on the idea that every manager is competent. I’m pretty sure a manager could be worth -6 WAR if he made all the wrong tactical choices. And therefore I’ve got to believe he could be worth 6 WAR if he made all the right ones.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Not really going to touch this one....
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 17, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
You're all barking up different trees
A manager cannot make much difference in terms of winning or losing games because that’s up to the players to perform. It’s like saying that Billy Beane cost the team wins because, say, Landon Powell was in AAA. Now it’s possible he’d have gotten hits that Fox didn’t get, or vice versa. But what actually occurred is so far removed from any hypothetical outcome as to make the whole thing a moot question.
On the other hand - while you can’t point to any particular game (I mean, maybe Bailey would’ve given up a 2-run homer in the bottom of the ninth to lose the game anyway), bad decisions lead to more problematic games. And Geren had made a mess of bad decisions. A lot of his problems stem from bad roster management by Beane/Forst -- juggling an insufficient bench, being stuck with Fox and Patterson and having to use them, for example. And Geren’s managerial expertise has nothing to do with the fact that many of players have been awful with RISP, and even worse with RISP with two outs (except for Ellis and Suzuki).
What I most look at, beyond line-ups (and we all know that in the end, the order on the line-up card is inconsequential, pretty much), what I’m seeing is the misuse of players. Players on hot streaks are getting benched. Happily, Geren allowed both Kouzmanoff and Gross to run out their streaks, but Pennington is either hot or the Cubs don’t have a book on him - he should have started yesterday, and Rajai Davis should not be riding the bench at this time. If that means sitting Cust, you sit Cust; if it means playing Rajai over Sweeney for the moment, you ride the hot hand. Geren never thinks in those terms. And his use of Wuertz as if this was the same pitcher as 2009 - unspeakable.
But I would not put any of this in a statistical context, because it cannot be done. One way or the other, it’s the players who win and lose the games.
Forst has said time and again that Geren decides the lineup.
You’d think if he wasn’t happy running players like Fox and Patterson out there he’d have informed the front office.
And yes I’m almost certainly stretching my point too far (the managers having THAT much impact on games), because at the end of the day it’s all down to the players. I do think that a guy like Geren is hamstringing us though.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Nico, I totally recommend and endorese this thread my man!
Fucking spot on mate!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Agreed
This is not his 1st big mistake this year, and this is not his 2nd.
If you make significant mistakes in the typical workplace you will be fired, and Geren needs to receive the same sort of punishment for failing at his position.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 17, 2010 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
He makes Art Howe look like a genius
Okay, so Barton bunts in the first inning on his own, to “move the runner over” . Why is he just allowed to bunt every 4th AB? Doesn’t the manager have some say about strategy, like, just hit the f’in ball and try to get the runner to 3rd with a single?
The bullpen management had me so angry today. I can’t believe this slack-jawed boob still has a job.
Or me. I'm free and looking for a job in California....
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
And?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I don't want the GM's job, that seems like hard work.
A nice cushy job telling 25 baseball players that they’re the greatest sounds good though. I’d even wear stirrups.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Well if THAT's all a manager has to do, sign me up!
I think I’d be pretty good at that.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 17, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
And I'm sure they'd respond better to you than I.
But dammit, I was here first. First come, first served!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Co-managers?
When they start misbehaving, all you’ll have to do is talk quickly with your British accent, and since they won’t be able to understand you, they will capitulate.
Me, I’ll just tell them that they’re the greatest. And that they’re pretty. Or maybe they’d like ‘handsome’ better.
by whiteshoes40 on Jun 17, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah see my issue with that is I'd be out of a job quickly.
All you’d have to do is turn up in tight baseball pants with stirrups (naturally) and the players wouldn’t look at me all day.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Anyone but this nut job
Ron Washington should have been the manager, I thought that then and I will continue to say that this was the biggest mistake that Billy Beane has made in his time as GM with the A’s.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 17, 2010 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Washington is worse than Geren....
I thought that was clear from that extra innings game the A’s played in Texas.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 17, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Wash's strategic acumen hasn't really impressed me
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I disagree
But to each their own.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 17, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
The Rangers use the sacrifice bunt just as much as the A's
Though the A’s have caught up to them.
Washington is fortunate to have a good offense.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Tampas team motto this year is "Get The Man Over"
I dont know if it was Maddon or the players idea, but either way, they do lay down bunts. Though it works when you have an offense like they do.
It seems like all fans complain about their manager, but yeah…I would be fine with anyone else.
If only...
Mike Scioscia or Joe Maddon would be awesome.
The one thing I can’t wait to have again at some point is personality in the managerial seat. Geren has absolutely no personality and is as dry as the desert sand (during non-rainy season haha). Give me someone like Ozzie Guillen or Bobby Cox any day…someone with some fire and emotion.
Hell, bring back the player/manager concept and hand the reigns to Dallas Braden.
by bakerbeachboy on Jun 18, 2010 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I want Scioscia's fluke luck.
Ozzie Guillen would be awesome, I like him as a manager, BUT the stupid “get Kenny to sell low on good players because they pissed off the manager.” and the propensity of players who get in his doghouse to be traded is a problem.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I'll bet if Ozzie was your team's manager, you'd loathe him sooner or later
The guy’s pretty much a nut job who wears out his welcome over time. Kind of a very, very poor man’s Billy Martin.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I've always thought Scioscia is a good manager.
There seems to be strongly divided opinion on that question here at AN.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I always thought he was a bit overrated due to all the small ball things he did (hit and run/sac bunts etc)
and the talented teams he had to play with. I’ve come around on him now though – they’re going to win the division again this year and they’re not that much more talented than us. So that comes down to the manager I think.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'm pretty much right where you are with Scioscia
I used to feel he was overrated and ran into way too many outs. The way the team reacted following Adenhart’s death, and all the injuries, last and the way players clearly love playing for him and play hard for him in general, I’ve come around to thinking he’s one of the best “clubhouse/team” managers in the game and that this makes him well above average.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The guy bats Juan Pierre leadoff and Mark Kotsay fifth.
He’s, quite possibly, the worst manager in the league.
See my sig.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 18, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Scott Hatteberg!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
TWMS
(That’s what Monkeyball said)
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 18, 2010 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Showalter
I’d like to see Hershiser get a shot too
If he wants to run across the pitcher's mound, tell him to go do laps in the bullpen - pepe
I'd really like to give Hershisher a shot. Absolutely.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Bob Brenley or Bobby V
I hear there is a $66 million dollar contract that will expire this year… Since the Athletics are destined to keep their talent 5 years or less, maybe invest in a manager who can bring continuity and not promote the next guy on the bench…
by Indiana A's Fan on Jun 18, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Sad
This team clearly has more talent than last year’s, yet the performance is spiraling toward the 75 or 76 win mean.
Our pitching is not nearly good enough to make up for the lack of offense.
The other day, I checked the runs scored standings, and the A’s, Giants and Pads all had about the same number of runs scored, but the runs against were highly divergent.
Unless we open the coffers for a legit bat, or suddenly get lucky with the draft (as opposed to smart, which seems impossible) we need better pitching. Le’s pray for an Outman and Anderson recovery and then some.
Pitching is all.
"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady
Y'mean our pitching is not nearly good enough to make up for the injuries to the rotation, right?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yes and No
somebody posted the team ERA for June as being near 5. Not even Anderson could bring that down much.
"It's better to live rich than die rich" -- The Fat Lady
Yeah he could
It really just takes a single bad pitcher in the rotation to explode the ERA you’re talking about some providing upwards of 1/6 -1/7 of the innings.
Ask me about my squirrel.
The pitching as it is is very poor at the moment
4.95 ERA this month. The hitting was at a .294 average. There is something wrong when you have a team hitting close to .300 and they are winning less than a 3rd of their games.
So IMO, the pitching, Bob Geren and hitting with RISP has doomed this team.
There is something wrong when they hit .263 as a team but hit 20 points lower with RISP. There are 5 players who hit above .271 in this category. And guess what, 4 of them are free swingers. Mark Ellis, who takes pitches is bucking the trend with a .314 before today. The others, not in any particular order were Ryan Sweeney .304, Kevin Kouzmanoff .277 (The King of swinging early), Rajai Davis .271 (of all people) and Kurt Suzuki. .302.
Barton .237, Rosales .237, Gross .233, Cust .227, Pennington .224 (4 points higher than his ave) and .176 Patterson.
I am not putting this to start an argument about RISP. I am just posting it for those who might be interested. IMO, this has to improve. It’s like they get really anxious at the plate and either take too many with a defensive at bat or they go nuts and swing at a bad pitch.
Susan Slusser
If you are reading this, please ask Bob Geren to explain himself.
Then write about how he is unfit to perform as manager of this club anymore.
Thank you.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 17, 2010 9:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
No. Chance.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Alternatively, you can write about how cool MikeV from Athletics Nation is!
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Isn't she meant to report the facts?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Well, yeah
But it would be nice if she could get a quote from him about his managerial decisions today
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 17, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
She wouldn't get anything that would satisfy you.
Just some bland, pre-determined answer about how the other team played well.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Still better than nothing
Think about it; if this was Piniella or Torre or another manager from a large market team, there would be video of them sitting in their office having to provide solid reasoning for their decisions. But we’re the A’s, we don’t have much media following us anyway so a guy like Geren can get away with poor decisions without having to explain himself.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
by stranahanahan on Jun 17, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but that's why they're the Yankees etc and we're not.
I don’t mind that there isn’t huge media scrutiny on every decision the manager makes. I only think it causes problems.
Obviously I do mind when a guy in his third year of management is making mistake after mistake and not being held accountable for it.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Your point about intense scrutiny causing problems is well-taken
I feel like that has to have had (3 forms of “have” in 4 words, bam!) an impact on decisions like the Cubs putting Zambrano in the ‘pen. Or letting Theriot play as much as he has. Fans be runnin’ that org through the reporters that pander to them for readership.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Well I don't know how much they listen to it.
I mean A-Rod was public enemy #1 in New York for a while, but Giradi (Torres) kept on running him out there at third base ‘cos y’know HE’S ONE OF THE GREATEST PLAYERS OF THIS GENERATION (even if he his a cock).
But yeah I just think it causes unneeded problems. And with how bad the Cubs are, despite spending $1bn a year, perhaps their managers do indeed listen to the media.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
She's not with them this road trip.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 17, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
OT
But besides the first inning and Castro’s double in the second, Braden was AMAZING considering he only had 2 pitches. WOW just WOW.
HILLIS...where are you???
Was he actually only throwing 2 pitches?
I didnt start watching on TV til the 6th, but according to Gameday, he was throwing sinkers as well as changeups and fastballs.
He doesn't have a sinker I don't think.
Fastball, circle change (screw ball), cutter, slider.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Video games (for whatever they're worth)...
… say Braden has a fringey sinker.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
The Show, huh?
Perhaps he does then. I thought he had a 2 seam fastball.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I've had too many Show-related posts lately
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
3?
I take it you’re a 2k10 man then?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
No, I just try to avoid video game reports in general
The old folks get all, “WHUT I DON’T SEE NO ‘ATARI’ IN THAT VIDJYUH GAME TITLE.”
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
and Geren has a stinky finger.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 17, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Yet he seems to love the smell by all accounts.
Where you at?
Ask me about my squirrel.
Kingman, Arizona.
Is my room ready?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 17, 2010 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure
Where’s CS? I’m ready to stop by and give you a hand unpacking though.
Ask me about my squirrel.
I was saying that in order to make it like I was gonna come stay with you.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 18, 2010 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes... I saw what you were trying to do there ;)
Ask me about my squirrel.
Making good progress.....I heard it is over 110 there today!!
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
they got nothing on Florida.
I’ve never experienced anything like Florida summer. Everyone there just acts like it’s normal. No, walking directly on the surface of the sun is not normal, people.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 18, 2010 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Fire Geren, Hire Rickey
People apparently don’t believe that the A’s would be leading the division if Geren wasn’t the manager. I think we should undertake a project: let’s go through all the losses this season and see if we can count exactly how many games he has thrown away through unquestionably, undeniably, inarguably poor decisionmaking. I mean, let’s really build a case here. Let’s really see if we’re right or wrong here.
I submit that the A’s have lost 10 games because of Geren’s poor decisionmaking. And I also submit that he should be fired and replaced with Rickey Henderson.
Rickey would put himself in the lineup.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
He'd be better than most of the lineup, but that's not the point.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
So what was Geren's response
to this all in the post match press conference? In particular not doing the double switch.
"The whole world is fueled by bullshit… What? The kid asked me for advice on his science fair project so I’m giving it to him." - shitmydadsays
did you see the Blevins interview?
at one point they zoomed way up on his eyeball, weird.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
The problem is not Geren
Sure Geren need to go but the problem is Bean, he doesn’t believe in the value of having a good or decent manager. For whatever reason Bean doesn’t want to hire someone with strong personality so not to clash with him. As long as Bean’s opinion doesn’t chagne nothing will.
That uber funny Brit who mumbles
Ask me about my squirrel.
Uber funny?
No.
He’s awesome in lots of things (Rowan Atkinson). Mr Beane isn’t one of them.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
It's 6am.
And the A’s GM, allegedly.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
It's 6 where you are?
Cripes, what are you still doing up?
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I slept at midnight through till like half four.
It’s one of the benefits of being unemployed (however much I wish I wasn’t).
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'm assuming you meant 4 in the PM
I love sleeping the day away. Love. It.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
No, 4:30am.
And I’m not AGAINST sleeping the day away if I’ve done something productive the night before. But I don’t think commenting on a baseball blog makes that cut…
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
damn...really?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 17, 2010 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
hey, you've got a job.
All I’ve got is the offer of a garage.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 18, 2010 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions
sleeping the night away....sleeping the night away....
I get knocked down then I get up again…..!
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
Mr. Beane, no.
Mr. Bean. yes.
Ask me about my squirrel.
I dont think it has anything to do with Beane not wanting a good manager
The problem is that Beane put his friend is a position where he may have to fire his friend. And so far it does not look like Beane is going to fire his friend.
Which is why he needs to be promoted
Vice President in charge of bat maintenance.
I've read a few NTSB reports on plane crashes
Not to directly compare bad baseball managing to plane crashes that kill dozens of people…but one thing that comes up over and over in the course of interpreting cockpit voice recorder transcripts is that the first officer realizes that the captain is making a bad decision, but is not willing to forcefully state to the captain that he/she is doing something wrong. It’s usually attributed to the personalities of the two; sometimes it’s the timidity of the first officer, but more often the captain has a reputation for being a dictatorial a-hole who won’t listen to subordinates (thus the “Why bother?” reaction). Seems to me that the bench coach should be a second line of defense against Geren’s dumb moves, the non-double switch today being a terrific example. So my guess is that Geren and Tye Waller probably don’t have the greatest working relationship. I’m pretty sure Bob Schaefer said he was “underutilized”, or something similar, when he left after one year with Geren to become Joe Torre’s bench coach in L.A.
Geren's decisions today killed my whole afternoon,
so it’s pretty comparable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I just watched the post game interview
that RRS posted…..okay now I’m really mad because Geren just seemed intent on saying the same old shit he always does when hw fucks things up…..“Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah………!”
Dude, I want a guy that actually gives a shit and isn’t afraid to sack up for his mistakes! Ya know what, Bob? There’s more life in my 16 year old cat who does nothing but sleep all fucking day, man! Step up to the plate brother!
Billy Beane, how can you still sleep at night knowing you still employ such a “yawner-ho-hum-we’ll get em’ next time” bullshitter like Bob Geren this late in the game? He’s had going on 3+ seasons now to show you he isn’t qualified for the job, man!
A’s fans have had enough!!!!!!!! Lord knows we couldn’t do much worse with anyone else at this point!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
mrod
Do the A’s players not respect Geren because he shows no emotion and tries to put a positive spin on everything including losses or because he’s just a flat-out moron?
They don't respect him?
Maybe I’m out of the loop, but how do we know they don’t respect him? I mean, I’m sure it’d be easy not to, but they all seem to step up and take bullet after bullet for him in the postgame interviews.
People can talk all the shit they want to on McGwire, Canseco, and Rickey for being big personalities, but you know they wouldn’t have put up with any shit like this.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't have a wide sample of data
But the little info I have suggests the players don’t think much of Geren.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
This could be one of those things like with Macha
where the shit hits the fan and people start talking as soon as the season is over
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
Yup. Plus it depends on who the players are
In Macha’s case, the players who didn’t like him had “power” (Kotsay, Kendall) — not HR power, but Beane’s ear power. Mark Ellis probably has more clout than Brad Kilby, and so on.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I don't think either said they could confirm it though
It sounded more a general sense that they “might not”.
Ask me about my squirrel.
I wish the players would just confirm it themselves.
Wouldn’t it be great to hear Mark Ellis say, “You know what? Bob Geren is a piece of shit who doesn’t deserve to manage a big-league ballclub. He’s an embarrassment to Major League Baseball.”
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be asking for a trade
Saying something like that publicly about management in any company will get you moved out of the company…well, except for places like Pacifica Radio, where it gets you a promotion. But in general.
Not likely to happen
Granted it happened with Macha, but I suspect that had more to do with the players at the time. We don’t really have the vets with the personalities to do something like that.
Ask me about my squirrel.
That kind of stuff pisses Beane off
It got Byrnes traded, it got Bradley traded. Maybe others…what’s his face, the guy Beane brought in as closer who imploded…
don't remember
but it was in conversations with reporters.
I'm sure it does...
but is there any other way to get through to the dude and let him know his manager sucks? Is there any way at all?
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, so I'm gonna go back again and say.....
Geren isn’t exactly popular in the clubhouse-with certain players-etc..but it’s looking more and more like guys don’t exactly embrace the guy at the end of the day. Of course a player isn’t going to come out and blast Geren in the press! Of course not! I’m just saying, based on info I have from the people I have spoken to, Geren’s not exactly Numero Uno in their book! I’m not up here hacking, was just trying to lay a little insight into the conversation without implicating anyone….
I hope it’s clear now……just want it to make sense for y’all.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
The important thing is
Does Geren know he’s not popular in the clubhouse? Or does he continue to think he’s Mr. Awesome?
I still say the important thing is
does BEANE know that Geren is unpopular in the clubhouse? Is Beane too insulated to realize this?
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Then that means it's time for Beane to go, too.
If pride is getting in the way of making the best possible baseball decisions, then he needs to go, too.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2010 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
It was a massive red flag.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly I think he's lost his fire
Forget about the “oh he’s focused on Soccer BS”, but I’m just not sure he’s as fired up as he was earlier in his career. Not sure if this team needs a major shake up, probably doesn’t. But some sort of action at least “seems” necessary.
Ask me about my squirrel.
This is my fear
Whatever the reason, be it soccer, boredom, burn out, whatever, I just don’t see the same “competitive fire” GM as I saw several years ago.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Who have you spoken to?
I’m curious.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
Responding to TBR here..
I think it’s more that certain players are feeling not respected enough and it’s bleeding over into game situations and the like. Also, I never implicated Nico in any of this, just so you know….
Go A’s!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
That's always going to happen
Every manager will have favorites, or people he plays to a greater or lesser degree. I’m more interested in whether those players, and the others, respect his in-game decisions, or his other line-up decisions. In other words, if it’s just a few egos getting ruffled, it’s no big deal. If it’s more than that, then there’s something else brewing.
85% of Americans hate their boss
the other 15% merely dislike him/er
by MobiusKlein on Jun 18, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I love my boss.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It's pretty much impossible to always be liked by every man on the 25 man roster through the course of 3 years.
It’s harder still when all three of those years were frustrating, losing seasons.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Jun 18, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
That's kind of interesting (the cockpit dynamic)
Not sure how well that would work for in-game management though. But still, someone needs to step and stop idiocy in it’s tracks.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Is it possible....
I mean….possible…that Geren is the first officer and Beane the captain, and that the first officer doesn’t feel he’s in a position to flat-out challenge his boss? Geren was stuck with a short bench of bad players; he’s stuck with Tyson Russ instead of Henry Rodriguez. He was stuck with Eric Chavez and had Jack Cust sitting in the minors.
I mean, we’re assuming the problem is just Bob Geren.
I'd say Beane/Wolff are far more the problem,
keeping terrible players for no good reason, and failing to spend profits on better players. But given the 25 Geren has, games like today are poorly played out managerially — though the team still could have won had certain players performed well instead of badly.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's what I mean
We assume Geren and Beane are on the same page. Maybe his mis-management of the DH during the short bench was a covert message to Beane. That doesn’t explain today’s disaster though.
But see
Nobody’s mad at Geren because of players sucking, everyone’s mad because he doesn’t put these players in the best position to succeed.
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
I don't think the A's have had a universally loved manager since LaRussa
And I was, like, 6 when LaRussa was managing the team, so maybe haters were hatin’ and I just wasn’t hearing it because SHINY A’S I LOVE LANCE BLANKENSHIP.
Geren shat the bed today, no doubt. He’s been pretty underwhelming—and the end doesn’t appear to be in sight.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
What's kind of ironic is that
no manager this year, and maybe no manager in 10 years, has had as bad a game tactically as LaRussa had in the 20 inning debacle. But maybe that was just one bad day, as he’s a pretty shrewd tactician in general.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It is also ironic that only 1 pitcher had an ERA under 3.18 this month before today
That was Blevins at 1.42 but he changed that today.
Gio 6.04
Sheets 5.00
Ziggy 4.91
Mazzaro 4.91
Ross 9.00
Wuertz 9.00
Dallas 6.00 (before today)
Breslow 5.40 (before today)
Only Cahill at 3.66, Bailey at 3.60 and Bowers in mop up 3.18 (which does not really count) are quite respectable
Well, the book on LaRussa is that he overmanages (obviously)
But (and I’m so loathe to use this cliché) the dude has championship rings for a reason. And unlike some that luck their way into a World Series, LaRussa— throughout his long MLB employment— genuinely seems to be intellectually engaged in the game. Of course, he adheres to a lot of the old school “it feels like it should be true, statistical analysis be damned” sentiment, but he legitimately succeeds despite it.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
That's an overplayed meme about LaRussa
The statistical analysis be damned part. By most accounts of people who know him and work with him, he pays pretty close attention to the stats. But in the moment, he knows that he’s a pretty smart guy with a pretty good feel for the game of baseball, and he’s willing to go with his gut. And guess what? He’s a winner, over and over again.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I see some of that
I think my point, which was poorly stated, is that he’s very astute and gets by on pure feel in a lot of areas that stat analysis covers. So he’s professedly old school while still being a little ahead of his time (when he was with the A’s).
That Barton-esque habit of bunting the guy on 2nd over to 3rd with 0 outs, though… can’t really jump on that train.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I like his unusual strategy of
playing the infield back but hen bringing it in with 2 strikes. It makes sense because it prevents batters from getting cheap runs home with 2 strikes on “just make contact” weak contact. He’s a smart guy, even if I never cared for him so much personally. (He was the A’s manager during the time I broadcast spring training games.)
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You don't have to dish if you don't want...
… but I’d be interested in hearing a story you might have to relate about that.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Of course he has to dish!
This is a democracy!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Oh, there's nothing especially dishy
It’s just that when I had to ask him permission to invite a player up to the booth during a broadcast, he wasn’t very friendly — he was perfectly cooperative, but he always seemed too cool to smile or treat me as a human being. I think he’s very “old school” in only welcoming insiders (players, coaches) into his world.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Lots of managers are like that.
At Blackburn Rovers the current manager Allardyce was, as you so rightly put it, perfectly cooperative, but you could tell he thought he was better than you during interviews and when you asked for his permission to do things.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yeah. It's refreshing when people aren't like that,
but sadly it’s probably the exception and not the rule.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It may be a small thing, but sometimes when I'm down by the 'Cats dugout with my camera...
…Tony D asks how it’s going.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Cool and heartening to hear
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Yeah, I mostly keep to myself but it's not hard to tell the guys who are down to earth
Taylor is definitely one of them at this point.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
HIRE TONY D NOW!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Monkeyball suggested Scott Hatteberg
and I second the nomination.
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2010 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously.
I have no idea if he’d be good at all, but it sure would be interesting.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
One of the reasons I liked Macha
Once when I was walking off the field after
singing the anthem, Macha looked over and said, “nice job.” Like you say, a little thing, but it was nice.
by oblique on Jun 18, 2010 6:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
When I was staying with my mom,
she was very kind to me. She would even occasionally talk to me.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 17, 2010 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions
When my wife and I were living together
she would occasionally talk to me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
iglew's wife talked to you?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Jun 18, 2010 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Is that why
they are no longer living together?
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Because it's how you play the game?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
And Jim Joyce had one horrifically bad day
Ask me about my squirrel.
Are you me?
I was three when the A’s won the World Series in 89. And I, too, loved Lance Blankenship. I have no explanation for why.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm you, but 5 years older
Whoooooooo, the future is scaaaaaaaaary.
And yeah, there IS no explanation for becoming a fan of Lance. It just happens, like spontaneous combustion or Geren’s bullpen choices.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Carney's post-game comments?
I heard someone say that Carney Lansford ripped Geren in his postgame remarks. What did he say?
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:14 PM PDT reply actions
Still wish I could have heard them.
Lansford wouldn’t be a bad manager himself.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
wasn't he a hitting coach for the giants with little success? I can't remember for sure...
Although I guess it’s not that relevant anyways because getting those Giants lineups to hit was asking the impossible.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 18, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he was pretty much panned by the Giants hitters
What that means, I don’t know, but it’s only a negative (or neutral, if you don’t put stock in it) on his ledger.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Man
The A’s have really taught their players well to blame themselves after losses. Blevins did a good job of that during his post-game interview.
Jerry, we don’t blame you, you were put in a position to fail in the first place. Sleep well tonight.
That's standard amongs athletes, though
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Except the best ones. They think it's everyone else's fault.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Milton Bradley!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Roger Dorn!
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Well, he could have bucked conventional wisdom
and thrown an occasional strike. He did have a part in the problem.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Didn't he walk 3 batters?
If so, yeah, a major league pitcher should not be doing that. And when they do, they damn well better take the blame.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Wow. AN sure exploded tonight.
I don’t know if I have it in me to argue about this again. That game was just absolutely crushing in every aspect.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
We've banded together under the banner of Geren
Firing him, that is.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I could get under that.
Am I overreacting after a bad loss? Maybe. But this game was the last straw. Some of the other craptastic moves he’s made (allowing Barton to bunt, for example) are at least defensible, in a shitty, incorrect way. The bullpen management today was not. It was absolutely wrong, from every perspective.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Yeah
Today was seriously the last straw. A sweep by the Cardinals would really suck seeing as how the A’s are under .500 again.
IK, R???
we needed this win and series!!! I’ll be over it by tomorrow…..but I won’t forget!
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
You get Carp and Waino, right?
Sure hope you got some guys who can hit curve balls, because there will be plenty. I think Suppan is the other guy. Talk about a contrast.
I disagree with that
He should be kicked upstairs to save face.
You're shifting paradigms outside the box
And it’s awesome to the max.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
He should be flat out fired to save money
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 5:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't he have had to violate the contract
in order for them to fire him and not pay him? I’m pretty sure shitty managing isn’t prohibited in the contract (too subjective), so Geren would continue to make whatever he’s making know. The real benefit would only be if someone better was hired in his place (which is, I think, implicit in all these statements about firing him.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Well OK, I mean they should pay whatever his contract stipulates, but not give
him any more paying jobs just to save face.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Then in that case
I agree with you. I wasn’t thinking of their being a pay increase along with getting kicked to the FO (my impression is that other than Beane, FO people make a LOT less than any manager).
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure but they have input on decisions.
I know from experience that hiring stupid people, even at little or even no cost, is detrimental because they open their mouths and someone is bound to humor them just because it’s rude to tell them never to speak because no one cares what they think and they’re only there as a favor.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
good point
so Bob gets to go fishing while getting paid 6 figures. I need that job.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
You're assuming Geren's stupid
Rather than simply a bad manager who is, in situations like the post-game press conference, simply mouthing the organization party line. If Beane wants to work with the guy in some other capacity, maybe it’ll be a better fit.
Bottom line though, and as someone said, it was a red flag from day one: You don’t hire your best man for a job in which virtually everyone gets fired.
I suppose it's possible he's a brilliant talent evaluator and poor
game tactician. But I’m not aware of any evidence of that.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I've heard the phrase "dumb as a doornail" used to describe him,
but in this case I honestly can’t even remember who said it.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Yeah.
It’s very painful to me, and I think to anyone else who’s ever been fired or laid off, to think about the fact that we can be fired for BS reasoning, but Bob Geren can run his team into the ground and there’s basically no chance he’ll be fired. I can’t watch the A’s anymore. And yet, I’m going to continue watching the A’s.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Last sentence sums it up perfectly
"The A's have to be setting some record this year for simultaneously maximizing team quality and player anonymity. I guess that’s sort of their thing though." - Luke in MN
I wish I could stop.
I wish I could tell Lew Wolff and his rich-boy San Jose buddies, and Bob Geren and Tye Waller and Jim Skaalen to go take a flying fuck. But I can’t. This team has been important to me since before I could talk. Not just the team, but the fun, free-wheeling atmosphere—far too uncommon for far too long in professional sports—that they represent, and where they’re from—Oakland, dammit—and even the colors that they wear.
I don’t know what I’ll do if they move to San Jose. I hope I’ll be able to just stop watching baseball and dismiss them as not my team anymore. But I know that won’t be the case. I’ll keep watching the San Jose A’s, and then in 10 years when the new-stadium shine wears off I’ll keep watching the Sacramento A’s, and then in 10 years the Portland A’s, and then in 10 years the Oklahoma A’s. And I’ll just keep waiting for an owner to come along who cares about baseball. And that day will never come.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
All we need is an owner who cares more about winning baseball games than leaving his fortune to his kids
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
That won't happen until Lew Wolff dies.
Wolff is a rich douchebag whose lone ambition seems to be having sports teams in San Jose so that he and his rich business asshole friends have trendy box seats to sit in and “watch” about 60% of a game.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far
Ask me about my squirrel.
Not only is this perception of Wolff unfair and completely unfounded,
it’s damn near slanderous.
She lives by the wall, and waits by the door.
She walks in the sun, to me.
Please, give me something good to believe about Lew Wolff.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions
In one of the douchiest parts of the Bay Area.
Sorry to anybody that lives in San Jose, but that place isn’t a city. It’s a collection of rich people that kick and scream and beg to be taken as seriously as the real cities in the Bay Area are.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
As opposed to a poor ass city that's in the shadow of San Francisco and bends over backwards to keep the Raiders?
See, the insulting bullshit can be flung both ways.
There’s no place for it.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
If it makes you feel any better I don't take any of the cities in the SF Bay Area seriously
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 5:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay, first, inappropriate.
Second, WTF are you talking about?
Third….San Jose is indeed my home and you just insulted me and everyone that lives here.
This is the internet so I won’t bother telling you I’m gonna kick your ass or anything juvenile like that, but please have some manners and think before making thoughtless remarks such as this.
Thanks JN….
Signed- Douchebag M-Rod In San Jose
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
This probably goes without saying, but just in case,
I am one who loves Oakland above the rest of the cities in the Bay Area, but I think I speak for all of my fellow Oakland homers when I say I don’t approve of sentiments like Jonathan Nathan’s. Love for one’s own city does not entail trashing somebody else’s. I prefer the A’s in Oakland because I love Oakland, not because I hate San Jose (which I don’t).
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I have worked in this city for almost 30 years.....it is a great community and I only wish I could afford to live there.
It has everything one could want in a city locale and I think the city government makes pretty smart decisions. It is larger than SF yet retains a smaller town feel – amazingly enough. If you knew anything about the city you would know that the way you have characterized the city is patently false. I think you are speaking from a position of ignorance…..
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
Thank you Berry Jo
I was born and raised here in San Jose and it will always be my home, even if I decide to move someday. I love it here and it makes me appreciate the rest of the bay area even more.
We are lucky, and yes hard working busting our asses folks, to live in such a great area of the country and I give thanks every day for being born here, Cheers!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
So Mark Cuban it is!
Ask me about my squirrel.
The problem with Geren's bullpen decisions lately...
… is they don’t just screw up one situation (like having Ziggy pitch to a lefty) but they also screw things up for later in the game (using up too many relievers to get just a few outs and not having anyone decent left for the 9th). Sometimes you have to live and die with Breslow and Weurtz for a full inning each.
Yeah!
I’m going to the games on Saturday and Sunday. It’ll be fun cheering for a team that’s nine games back of first (because I think we all know they will be.)
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Somehow I'm afraid
that Bobby Crosby is going to beat us
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
My brain can't handle this thought.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Why not, he's been doing it for years...
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Excellent point
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
The Fire Bob Geren Facebook page…….
"The whole world is fueled by bullshit… What? The kid asked me for advice on his science fair project so I’m giving it to him." - shitmydadsays
I thought about starting one...
but I didn’t think I knew enough A’s fans on Facebook that would join.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
nice. I joined
If he wants to run across the pitcher's mound, tell him to go do laps in the bullpen - pepe
If it's true that Geren does not have the respect
of his players and they don’t want to play for him, that troubles me much much more than any stupid blunder he makes with relievers, bunting or double-switches.
If the choice is between a manager who makes all the smart strategic decisions but the players don’t respect at all, or a manager whom the players love and respect but who frequently makes bonehead strategic decisions, I’d take the second guy any time.
(The latter description, incidentally, might possibly apply to Ron Washington.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
However
what we certainly don’t want is a guy the players don’t respect at all AND frequently makes bonehead strategic decisions. And that, somehow, is what we got.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I want the manager who makes good decisions and is respected
The type that makes boneheaded decisions but is respected… not sure if it really exists. Washington isn’t exactly that.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Geren's dumber than Washington
New mind-warping, stomach-churning Pilots songs are now online... follow the link if you dare (don't say you weren't warned!) NSFW!!!
by Gaijin_Suketto on Jun 17, 2010 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions
washington is cool
and he turned Chavy into a great fielding 3B.
by Billy Frijoles on Jun 18, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I could party with that guy
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I'm sure the A's players respected Geren before
It’s that they started losing respect for him after all his boneheaded moves
I'm not sure boneheaded moves are the cause
I mean, Daric Barton believes bunting in the 1st inning is smart. I doubt he’s too bent out of shape over what reliever comes in to finish the 7th inning.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think the problem with Geren
is that he manages the club as if he were still in AAA. In AAA, you can get away with intentional walks and other things. You can’t get away with those things at the big league level.
Yup.
So much of what he does seems to be geared toward developing talent rather than actually winning ballgames.
by JonathanNathan on Jun 17, 2010 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah....
Wasn’t Jason Giambi like, one of the worst players in baseball last year, while Barton was tearing up AAA, and yet it took till August to release him and give Barton the full time starting job at 1B?
I mean, Barton’s really good, but yeah. And, calling up young guys and leaving them on the bench? Josh Donaldson, anybody?
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
+1
You want a guy who can develop the next Brett Anderson, he’s your guy. I’m sure he’s a great teacher.
The problem is he has no strategy sense for baseball, he NEVER learns from his mistakes, and he has a total inability to motivate veterans. Macha, as his tenure went on, made less and less stupid mistakes and started to pull unproductive players earlier—he learned from his mistakes.
My issues with Garen are, to start with, he’s still making the same stupid mistakes 4 years after getting the job. Also last year was a big red flag, where a lot of veteran talent was brought in, and within a month none of them looked like they wanted to be there. I understand they are professionals and should be able to motivate themselves, but as the leader of the club, the manager should be able to deal with strong egos. Garen is just not a people person or a leader. Stringing Milton Bradley’s sanity along for a playoff run like Macha did is something Garen will never do.
by Mr. Clean Sweep on Jun 17, 2010 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Macha was good with Bradley
Bradley is to baseball what Ron Artest is to basketball, except Bradley has never won a championship
I don't think he behaved because of Macha
It was the threat of Frank putting “the BIG HURT” on Milton, and Swish constantly re-focusing him that kept Milton in line.
Something to help us focus on the next series
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
TYTYTY.....I'm on the road tomorrow and I was worried I have to miss one!
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
No prob
Where ya off to BJ?
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 18, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Wedding in San Luis Obispo....should be fun.
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
cool, have a good time
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 18, 2010 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
oooh my old stomping grounds!
Where is the wedding? Have fun! Eat some Firestone’s!
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
You're from SLO?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
That's where I went to school.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Cal Poly??
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
yes
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I love this area.....I tried to get the kid interested in going there......she chose Merced instead - it's been a good place for her.
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
Does anyone know the details of Geren's current contract?
When is it “up”? I honestly can’t see him getting fired either (like so many of you have stated above). But seriously…if the A’s have a losing record this year, that makes 4 losing years under Geren. Never a winning season.
And a note…the team’s winning percentage has gone down every year he’s been at the helm (it’s a super small percentage, but nonetheless).
Someone please at least give me the hope that if the A’s have a losing record this year, Billy will not bring him back next year. How in the hell could you do that after 4 losing seasons. That wouldn’t fly in any other organization.
Dysfunctional families have a difficult time becoming functional...
unless the young’uns decide to break the cycle.
here it is
Bob Geren Manager
1 year (2010), plus 2011 club option
source is Cot’s Baseball Contracts
Should I be hopeful, then??
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
What are the chances that 2011 option is picked up if we have a losing record this year?
I would hope it’s a 0% chance.
by bakerbeachboy on Jun 18, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
But then do we root for our team to lose?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'd be willing to have Geren in 2011 in exchange for a World Series title in 2010
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course WC, me too!
I just hope there is no chance he’s back in 2011 if the A’s don’t put together a winning season.
IIRC Beane implied that he wanted to be a competitive team while we were going through he rebuilding process. I mean jeeez, he brings in Holliday, Giambi (yes, I know he wasn’t our previous Giambi), Nomar (yes I know he isn’t the Nomar of old). Our young starters perform admirably. How in the hell can Beane go on to say that Bob hasn’t been given good opportunities? The best teams? Obviously not. Obviously flawed. But we had quality major league pieces last year…
I just find it concerning to hear Beane making excuses for Geren. And my dislike for Geren may be making last year’s team have more promise in my mind than they really warranted, haha.
by bakerbeachboy on Jun 18, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
It concerns me more that I don't hear the players backing him publicly.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd be willing to have Geren in 2011 in exchange for going 89-73 this year.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
For some reason - he seems like teflon Bob....nothing sticks to him. I'd be pleasantly shocked if Beane fires him.
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
In one of the more recent Beane interviews
He was asked about Geren, IIRC. He defended him as having done a good job in ‘rebuilding years’ and it’s certainly true that Geren has been given a lot of cheap, crappy players to deal with. I don’t think he’s ever had the personnel to put together a winning season, although this year had a bit more potential.
The problem isn’t entirely with the boob Geren – the problem is the GM who is putting a poor product on the field and leaves a poor manager at the helm.
by coffee roaster on Jun 18, 2010 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions
where did the 4th pitch miss in the first AB vs baker?
its funny, when your losing, you remember EVERY call.
Nico, excellent recap
For a game that really angered me as I listened particularly because of the inept managing decisions.
by OaklandSi on Jun 18, 2010 1:34 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
1 ... 2 ... 3 strikes yur out
Here’s how Bob Geren, in my mind, struck out as a manager Thursday:
Strike 1. He pulled Dallas Braden too soon. Braden was DOMINATING and only 83 pitches. His counterpart of the Cubs, Randy Wells, went 128 to get through the seventh. The Cubbies were probably heaving a sigh of relief when Braden was pinch-hit for. Piniella went the extra mile letting Wells finish the seventh and give him a chance to get the “W” in case of a rally in the bottom of the seventh. Braden said after the game he didn’t know if he could have gone out in the 7th, but it sounds to me as if he’s being the good company man. He looked upset in the dugout about something in the top of the seventh. Anyway, any regular starter in the bigs should be able to go 100-plus pitches in June, or he shouldn’t be out there. Nolan Ryan in Texas and Dave Righetti with the Giants put emphasis on their starters training in the offseason to stand up to the long season.
Strike 2: No double switch when Andrew Bailey was brought in. If your playing by NL rules and the games count in the AL standings, you should be prepared.
Strike 3: When players lose respect of their manager, they may be professional and grind it out, but inside they may feel like the first line of a Motown classic song . “I look out on the morning rain, and I feel so uninspired.”
Players can accomplish so much more when they’re inspired and believe in themselves as a team. Recommend all the A’s from the owner on down see the film “Invictus.”
by nativetexanasfan on Jun 18, 2010 2:08 AM PDT reply actions
Nice timing. I'm watching it now, and they've just decided to mix the team.
BTW, it’s pretty easy to play voice-mail Russian Roulette at A’s Corporate. Hunt by name — the big guns are protected — but things get forwarded.
Regarding Strike 3 on your list
I recall last season when we had a series against Colorado and Houston Street was interviewed on the pregame show. At the time Colorado had just fired their then current manager and hired the one they have now. If I remember correctly, and I think I do, he seemed to go out of his way to comment on how important it is for a team to have respect in their manager, and how now, with the new manager, the respect and chemestry was there and it was showing by their play on the field.
What I took from this was that Street did not care for Geren and was indirectly letting everyone know through his praise of Colorado’s new managment. If one guy dislikes the manager, then most likey several, if not many other players, dislike him as well.
by OldYoungMan on Jun 18, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't believe anything ballplayers say about chemistry
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
BoBo >= 10 Games Lost
It’s not just bullpen management. Casper Milktoast can’t set a lineup, nor play the hot bat. He cannot recognize non-contributing players (EPatsy, even more than Rust), can’t say anything even remotely relevant. He should be managing at AA, at best.
A little late but let me join the bandwagon too
I’m reluctant to criticize any manager during the first or second year of blunders, but by year four, it’s time to change the tires on the car if it ain’t steerin’ right! ( I won’t even discuss the condition of the engine)
The greenmachine
Of course the players are speaking up
Just remember what Giambi said on his way out the door. Re-read Rajai’s comments when he was benched after a 3-5 night. They are subtle about it, bacause they don’t want to be “Bucked”, as in Travis.
The word is out among the players,too
That is why the only FAs we sign are those nobody wants, aka Cust, or broken ones trying to come back, aka Sheets/Duke. For a Boras client to turn down more money like Beltre did is a real shout out that we will be in a continuous rebuilding mode until Special Ed is fired, and we get a real manager.
That has nothing to do with Geren
That’s the ballpark, clubhouse/facilities, attendance, and “odds of contending.”
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It has a lot to do with Ed
This is the same ballpark, clubhouse/facilities that FAs were lining up to play in when LaRussa was here, and The Haas family was running things. At that time this “Horrible” place to play was drawing 3M+ per year
That's like saying "Why won't they eat this piece of cheese?
It’s the same piece of cheese people were lining up to eat 20 years ago!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Well, it's the same except that they built a giant anthill in the middle.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
It looked a lot better without the anthill.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
And without all that moldy build up
Ask me about my squirrel.
The Cubbies don't have problems signing FAs
and they haven’t done anything in about 100 years, and play in a park that has brick walls to run into.
Wrigley Field: Players love it, fans sell it out
Oakland Coliseum: Players hate it, it’s 75% empty most games.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
They have a $140M payroll, too
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 18, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Is there any way to ban the nickname "Special Ed"
It smacks of all the worst aspects of message boards that AN is supposed to be better than.
There is nothing wrong with being critical of Geren, but this sort of thing is brutal.
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe
Is that what it refers to?
I thought they were blaming Future Ed for the losses, which I thought was a bit harsh.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought it referred to the rapper who sang "I Got It Made"
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
See, we need more clarity
Otherwise there will continue to be the impression that Future Ed is rapping in the dugout while mis-managing the bullpen.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Let me define it for you
I bEgan calling him Charlie McCarthy, in reference to his relationship to BB. However, no one knew who I was talking about. Someone else suggested Special Ed as a more modern DUMMY. The name stuck.
You mean Ed McMahon?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
No,
I gather there is a ventriloquist who uses a dummy named Special Ed. The point was the relationship between Geren and BB. Besides, the F-bomb is dropped constantly here, along with a whole host of degrading names, so why the PC Bull.
Hmm
I guess I see a difference between someone posting “I am so fucking frustrated” and someone posting “Bob Geren is a retard”. I’m not a big fan of “Bob Geren is a piece of shit” or such like either, as I think it’s much better conversation (in so far as it has better content) to say “Geren makes terrible tactical decisions” or “He makes lineups built to fail” or even “Geren seems like Beane’s puppet”. I guess I see the distinction as discussing behaviors that are maddening, vs simple ad hominem attacks, which I am generally opposed to, as they do nothing to enrich a conversation.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess some could take the F-bomb
by ITS literal meaning and be just as offended when it is used to describe Geren. As well as calling him an idiot, moron, Asshole ,etc. which has been used. Or to say that the players have to grow a set , infers things about their gender. This is pure PC garbage.
I didn't say I prefered
personal attacks with swearing instead of implications about IQ. I was trying to be clear about not liking ad hominem attacks, period. I don’t see that as “PC”, especially in the sense that many use it to impugn someone as thin-skinned etc. My point is that it doesn’t help make the conversation interesting. Reading someone calling someone else names (be that Geren, Beane, or another poster) is BORING. What I love about this blog (aside from the great conversations about boobies) is the really interesting exchange of ideas from some really interesting posters, not reading what juvenile name someone has come up with to describe someone else.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
don't know where to chime in on this but
Saying bob geren is a fucking fuck up stupid ass manager is insulting a person who you don’t like.
Calling him Special Ed is devaluing human beings who genetically, through no fault of their own do not have the same cognitive skills as most people. That’s fucked up. It has nothing to do with Political Corectness (which I view as a term people throw out to absolve themselves of responsibility for insulting others)
People have been trying to insult me with that term my entire life (well, ok, just until college) but really they devalue their insult because it make them look like intolerant and easy to blow off. Just like here, you call geren “special ed,” and I think “oh, Tulu-late is an idiot that I don’t have to listen to.” kinda defeats the purpose of making your opinion known.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
and you may not think of it this way
but its how it sounds to me.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
hell yeah.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Really?
An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person. Moron, term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12, and a common insult for a person considered stupid. So its ok to call someone a F’n idiot, or F’n moron,( which is used on this site almost daily), but not Special Ed. AND it is taken out of context per the explaination.
you misunderstand
Special ed only has a negative meaning because it is associated with people who are considered not as smart as others. THe people who populate special Ed classes largely have learning disabilities that are genetic. that is the only context. it cannot be separated from it.
calling a person an idiot (or the fucking idiot, etc) is a direct attack on the person themselves without bringing in a class of people with an immutable characteristic that you find worth less than yourself.
It makes me sad when people like you mock the powerless.
As for the other attacks on Geren, using generic insults to show you displeasure are a direct attack on geren and not other groups of people.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
This is a function of time.
Both “moron” and “idiot” were at one time used to refer to the mentally handicapped. Over time the words became co-opted as insults and new euphemisms were invented. The same process is going on right now with “retarded” which earlier in our lifetime was the common polite word for mentally handicapped but now is rarely used for that and is turning into another bland derogatory term.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Thank you,
for explaining it better than I. In know way did I intend to offend anyone. As I said brfore, the name is in reference to Geren being BB’s puppet, or ventriloquist dummy. This entire subect was blown out of wack because someone wanted to ban the term. I have no problem refraining for its use, HOWEVER, the use of idiot, moron, and retard are, IN FACT, the same as Special Ed. So, you guys refrain from their use also.
Well, they're not *exactly* the same.
The time difference really does matter.
It’s like saying just because I engage in arguments about William McKinley, Warren Harding, and Harry S Truman, you ought to be allowed to post about George W Bush.
One is still current; the others are not.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I was mostly going for the joke
But I appreciate the ventriloquist joke. I don’t really know any modern ventriloquist, so the Charlie McCarthy thing works for me.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I had no problem sticking with
Charlie McCarthy, but most of the youngsters have no idea who Edgar Bergen was.
Candice's dad?
Of course she’s old too
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I watched a lot of Murphy Brown as a kid
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
It was my favorite show in the early 90s
Still bummed they ditched the DVDs after season 1. :(
Wisconsin's #1 A's fan!
http://athleticsforlife.net/
Except the name didn't stick.
At least not on AN. I’ve spent a lot of time on AN but when you said “Ed” I had no clue who the heck you were talking about.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I have a bat phone to geren
I tell him who to bring in.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
The times, they are becoming quite different
When I was in 1st grade (‘90), that was such a polite way to describe it. And now I agree with you that it’s pretty not cool to snarkily call someone that. So I guess by today’s standards, Tutu-late, your name for Geren should be Alternatively Abel.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
good point
youngsters won’t know what special ed is.
Back to your hole Joey.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
I asked a few Negros and Orientals and they agreed
that times are becoming quite different!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I never understood why Oriental became bad.
When I was a kid we always said I was half “Oriental” and no one ever thought it was inappropriate. Who decided that was derogatory?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
And who decided not to rename the NAACP?
It’s funny how terms can go from offensive, to really respectful, to really offensive.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bailey is now limited to one inning appearances per roto world / etc.
Saw this yesterday. Confirmed today. WTF
This guy was a Starter before last season. One inning per game? Arbitrary rules like this really anger me. It makes you realize this show is being run unprofessionally and without any imagination.
by 33SwisherSweet on Jun 18, 2010 7:59 AM PDT reply actions
It does seem arbitrary, but then perhaps they have inside information about his arm/shoulder/elbow that we don't.
No point in abusing him in a season like this.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
He says he feels absolutely fine phyiscally,
that this is about Geren wanting to “get guys roles.” Memo to Bob: Bailey has a role and it’s closer, and closers can come in for 3 outs, or 4 outs, or 5 outs, and still be in their role and keep everyone else in their role. Mechanically saying, “8th inning…must pitch Ziegler…” is insane. You have two good relievers right now, one of whom has hardly pitched for 2 weeks — and you want to limit him more?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Mechanically saying anything is stupid, but it wouldn't be a tragedy if Ziegler and Breslow
shared the 7th and 8th innings based on handedness of the upcoming batters. Of course don’t use them both in the 7th and have no one left in the 8th.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions
This would make sense
Actually, more Ziggy and Blevins. Breslow can face both LH/RH better than those two guys can.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The larger point about Bailey being limited to an inning stands of course.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah he's a pro athlete, I'd be surprised if he didn't declare himself fit to play.
If it’s a ‘roles’ move though then Geren deserves sacking.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I think Bailey may have (or had) a few minor health issues
His velocity was better yesterday but earlier on it was down.
It may be my imagination but he had been giving up a lot more hard hit balls and his strikeouts were down than in the past
Anyway, someone with a 1.69 ERA can’t have much of a problem so maybe they are being cautious.
Geren is still an idiot. That will not change
-
“The director Geren has been sacked.”
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Even more idiotic
is telling players this when you know Bailey, for instance, is your best pitcher with 5 outs to go in a crucial game for this team, and he’s more than likely (Bailey) thinking to himeself,f not already expressing to Geren, “I’m good to go an inning and a third Bob”.
{Slaps Bailey’s ass and says"Nice hustle kid"……..}
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Recommended bold move:
Acquire Akinori Iwamura, just DFA by Pittsburgh. He’s off to a putrid start, but was one of my “yes, please!” targets last off-season. If he reverts back to anything like what he was for the Rays, he’s a steal. If he’s been slow to recovery from surgery (the Pirates believe this is the problem), stash him for 2011.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Sure but where would he play? Ellis and Kouzmanoff have his positions covered and no one
on the team has ever been injured.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Having too many good players
is the very, very, very, very least of the A’s problems right now.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
How's an injured 31 year old with no power going to help the A's?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
You probably didn't believe in Adam Kennedy either.
Oh yeah
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Where is he now?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Nationals
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 18, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Which is why I said "Oh yeah"
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
How about Cantu?
He can play multiple positions as well as DH. That is IF we want to make a run at this year
Cantu's the one that can't actually play defence, right?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'm not sure
but his defense is supposed to be poor.
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
But he can hit and so the Marlins will likely keep him.
Uggla might be available though if they keep losing
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I like players that can hit, but then I don't want any more Custs.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Cantu's the one that is just behind Nomar in terms of chronic health issues
Not to mention the fact that I suspect this torrid hitting of his is rather luck-fueled.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Oh right, so he'll fit right in then.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I like your Cantu attitude
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
by OptimistPrime on Jun 18, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Cantu, Cantu,
this guy says the horse Cantu.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
We can stash him in AAA, sure
Just as someone brilliant doesn’t decide he’s better than Rosales and then Rosales is sent down to make room for Aki.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on Jun 18, 2010 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I wanted him before the A's acquired Kouz.
Maybe it doesn’t make sense now, but I also don’t know that 2B is covered in the near future, with Cardenas stalling and Weeks chronically hurt.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'm assuming Rosales is the 2B beginning in 2011.
I’m hoping Pennington becomes utility guy and they get a real SS. Who? I have no idea.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Grant Green!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I hope you're right, but 2011 might be a bit soon for him.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm being facetious.
I mean he’s adjusted to A+ and is tearing that league up now – but he’s got a sore throwing shoulder (he’s been DHing the last few games) and he’s still a few years away I think.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'm hoping for the second half of 2012, so we just need a 2 year stopgap.
Scutaro would have been nice.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Except Scutaro isn't a very good defensive short stop.
As long as he doesn’t go into another extended slump I’ve no issues with Pennington holding down the fort at SS.
I’ve never bought into the idea that he’s the future there, but he’s also not the reason this team is so bad at hitting.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Well he's 1/7 of the reason the team is so bad at hitting.
Also I don’t see Scutaro as a worse defender than Pennington. I don’t get all the love for Pennington’s defence or his defense.
Watch Brendan Ryan this weekend if you want to see a good defensive SS. See how many plays he makes easily and how many he makes with difficulty. Then compare that to Pennington. It’s not close.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Pennington's good. Really good.
Scutaro’s decent at 2B. He’s bad at SS.
And Pennington, before his slump, was actually a very valuable player for us. He looks like he’s turned it round too.
The issue of course is the lack of power in the team. Besides Zooks, Kouz (I assume he’ll get there) and Cust (who I also assume he’ll get there) who else is going to hit 10 home runs in this team.
That’s pathetic. Sure if I was talking about 20 home runs only having three potential guys would be alright, but 10? That’s why we are where we are. Opposing pitchers can make mistakes against us and only give up singles.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Your assessment of Scutaro was true before he went to Toronto.
There he apparently learned to become a pretty good defender at SS, and remains so in Boston. Now he’s old and probably getting worse, but I still don’t understand what impresses anyone about Pennington as a defender.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
His range and his arm
If he weren’t as prone as he is to botching occasional routine plays, he’d be excellent.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Pennington...
has his head in the game, always. When EPatsy is in LF, and a ball goes there Penn automatically adjusts his position for the noodle-arm throw.
Wht's wrong with keeping Ellis?
You’re talking about an aging second baseman with injury issues whose arm doesn’t allow him to play shorstop, third base or the outfield. I love Ellis, and I’d rather see Ellis at second base than Rosales or anyone else. What makes anybody here think he’s going to get an offer the A’s can’t match? I say keep the guy as long as he can play.
He played SS in college.
It’s another thing we have to thank Crosby for I think.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Are you implying Crosby bumped him off the position?
Not true.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It's literally true.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn't Crosby destroy his shoulder?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Yes, into a pitiful paste
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, right.
I thought you were saying Crosby displaced Ellis at his natural position like Jeter did to A-Rod. I knew it was Ellis’s injury to blame, but I totally forgot that Crosby was the one who collided with him.
I retract my objection. You are absolutely correct.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
"I retract my objection. You are absolutely correct."
Can I get that framed?
And yes – Eckstein played 2B at Florida St, Ellis played SS.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Sure.
Yeah, I knew Ellis’s history. I totally forgot Crosby was the one who plowed into him and didn’t realize that’s what you were talking about.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Fair enough.
I think Ellis would have been an All-Star at SS too. Seriously – his defence is so ridiculous at 2B (to the point he almost looks bored out there ‘cos it’s so easy for him).
Ah well.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I love those jump catches,
where a screaming line drive is hit four feet over his head and somehow he manages to jump up and catch it. That’s so awesome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Sure, keep him, but I'm not expecting him to remain able to play for long.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking about this yesterday...
I totally agree….he has been a great player for us even with the injuries the last few years. He is a smart player who does frustrate at times – but he also seems to go in streaks where he gets the timely hits we need. I hope he retires a A. But I am an unabashed Unicorn fAN.
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
Put me down as a Unicorn fAN as well.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I love, adore, and worship Ellis.
But he’s probably never again going to be a 150+ game player, so having an alternate 2Bman makes sense.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Bad Defense and No Power
Iwamura has been horrible defensively for the Pirates, and he’s never hit for power. He has gotten on base in the past, but at age 31, I’m not sure if he’ll come back. Second basemen historically don’t age well, and Iwamura might be another example of that. No harm in stashing him in the minors, but I wouldn’t want him taking playing time from a real prospect.
My solution to the management problem:
Fire Geren, hire Chavez.
That keeps the girls and the Chavez fanboys happy. And it gets Geren out of Oakland.
I await your call about a Front Office job, Mr Beane.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
don't forget about the fangirls
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Doesn't Geren keep any girls happy?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I would love this scenario...
… though I don’t get the sense that Chavy is all that interested in managing.
At the very least, he should be the spiritual successor to Washington’s role as fielding coach.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Dammit I don't care if he's interested in managing.
That doesn’t fit in with my plans!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
you think Eric Chavez is capable of being decisive?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
"Bunt! ...And run! I really think the Angels are better than we are! ... Wait, don't bunt! OW!"
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nico, I find it interesting that you and I have had parallel thoughts regarding Geren.
We were both skeptical when he was hired. We were both pleasantly surprised when he had some initial success, even to the point of thinking we may have been wrong about him. We have both slowly but surely come back around to thinking our original impressions were indeed correct.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Here's something I've noticed that I find interesting.
Every year around May a bunch of articles and columns come out speculating which managers are on the hot seat. I read several this year, for example. Under performing managers that deserve to be fired and/or managers stuck with crappy teams that will take the fall.
Geren is never on the list.
Why is that?
Is it because he’s really good and the team hasn’t caught up with him yet? No, I really don’t think that, but had to throw it in for purposes of furthering the discussion. Or, as I think is the case, all the writers know he’s Beane’s friend and it’s simply a matter of extreme nepotism… that no matter how bad it gets, Geren’s not going anywhere, so it’s pointless to write about it.
If it’s extreme nepotism, then I’m going to have to scoff at those who say things like “In Beane We Trust”, as Beane’s judgment is merely mortal and he is allowing non-baseball criteria to drag the team down.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Also no one cares about the A's
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think your columnist theory works.
no matter how bad it gets, Geren’s not going anywhere, so it’s pointless to write about it.
What drives columnists to write about managers is not any hope that their column is going to help get the guy fired. What motivates them is something provocative to write about. If they really did believe nepotism, I would think they’d be writing about it all the time. (And indeed, a few do.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I don't necessarily disagree, but...
…why doesn’t Geren’s status get more attention when these annual May pieces are written? He’s just as shaky as some others, as far as managerial skill. It has to come down to the seemingly accepted fact that he’s just not going anywhere. Period. And everybody knows it. So, it’s not so much trying to get him fired, which I don’t think is their intent with any manager, but more that there’s simply nothing to write about.
I haven’t seen any write about the nepotism. That doesn’t mean nobody has, I just haven’t seen it. I like to see something about it. Preferably a national columnist.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
OT: World Cup
I didn’t see a DLD or open thread to post this in, so apologies to non-soccer fans/America haterz (I kid). But:
WTF, REF.
Our county hasn’t been jobbed this badly since… well, actually it hasn’t been all that long, what with BP and Wall Street. But still.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Are you referring to Alameda County?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Ha, good looking out
Uh, “country,” people, “country.” My county is Lane, and while we have been getting jobbed for some time now by our local officials, I’m sure most A’s fans don’t give shit 1.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Oh, in that case, never mind.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
My county is Lancashire, and we rock.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Certainly the Beatles thought so
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Fun fact; the Blackburn Rovers fanzine is called "4,000 holes."
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Are the holes rather small?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Erm..........Lennon did a lot of acid. That should answer your question.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Eugene or Springfield?
Or is there another municipality in Lane?
by el generico on Jun 18, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm in Eugene
Maybe Santa Clara is in there, too? Not sure.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
For real. Terrible way to start my friday morning.
Hopefully England will win the next to games, and 5 points would be enough to advance for the US.
I'm the biggest England fan the rest of the way out
I was rooting for them anyway, aside from the match we played against ’em.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I basically always root for Brazil except against the US
It’s hard not to love the way they play. I also like Ghana.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I've grown fond of South Korea and Japan
They’re just frenetic.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
But of course I have the more football fan friends from England than from any other
country so I would like them to do well.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think there was anything wrong with the referee's decision.
They often see an infraction before the free kick is taken and will blow up for it regardless of what actually happens whilst the ball is in the air.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Horseshit
There was no infraction. ESPN reports he called the foul on Edu. Watch that replay. Watch it again. Watch it again. Watch it one more time. You will never once see anything that remotely looks like a foul—unless of course you’re watching the Slovenes grab onto Michael Bradley like he’s auditioning for the role of Boston Strangler Victim #2.
Everyone—everyone—who has seen that play acknowledges that the ref blew the call. Ian Darke called it in real time, and everyone else saw the same thing afterward. First time out in the World Cup, ref? Doesn’t matter. You fucked up, son.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Did ESPN ask the referee?
He blew almost immediately after the free kick was taken – way before the ball was in the back of the net.
You see it all the time in the Prem. The outcome of the free kick was irrelevant, though the referee is going to be crucified for it of course.
Oh and Bradley was the one that had his arms around the Slovenian player, right?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
He and the Slovenian had their arms around each other.
I found it rather suspicious
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.
Bradley was holding the Slovenian player in place – and making it look like it was the other way round because of the way each player was facing.
Basically it’s a sport full of cheats. Soft cheats at that.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Well it worked. The foul was apparently called on Edu and the defender
was out of the way for the goal. In any case the Americans need to learn to start playing from the opening whistle, not after the other team scores a goal or two.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd like to see the interview with the referee on that one.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
I'm not expecting him to Joyce up
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Well then how do we know what the foul was called for?
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
We won't. He'll say something like he saw Edu initiate contact
and leave it at that.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
The consensus...
… from the guys in-booth to Steve McManaman just now is that, if anything, the call should have been a foul on the Slovene forcibly making love to Bradley, with a penalty kick for the U.S.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Steve. McManaman. Oh dear.
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
What was the referee's decision? Offside or foul? If foul, on whom?
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
There is now a DLD.
Sheesh, people.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Football fever!
Catch it! USA! USA!
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Not that kind of football....
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Hey! We're still in this.
That sounds like some sort of sexual metaphor. - iglew
by WaddellCanseco on Jun 18, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I was looking for a thread, too!! But also thought since I watched on taped delay I would have just have been a hour late on anything that I might have said.
Never stops me but – whatevah.
"Are those new tarps? Or did they paint 'em?" Mark Ellis
One More Point....
Something no one has mentioned….
The decision that Bailey wouldn’t throw more than one inning at a time was announced RETROACTIVELY, after the game, almost as an aside, to explain Geren’s lousy managing. For one thing, if you’re going to make that sort of announcement, you do it before a game, not after, when the very move you’ve made will be criticized.
Secondly, and more importantly, you don’t choose to make a policy decision like that when you’ve blown through both your options for secondary closer. Policies like that DICTATE how you play your bullpen. If that was indeed a policy change, and not a bullshit explanation for bad managing, then Geren should get busted for additional mismanagement.
The fact that the decision was publicly announced after the game doesn't necessarily mean that they made the decision after the game, but . . .
it was probably a post hoc justification, one that only compounded the earlier managerial blunder.
I am angry, I am ill and I'm as ugly as sin/My irritability keeps me alive and kicking/I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit/I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it -- Magazine, "A Song from Under the Floorboards"
How about the fact that Geren announced that Dallas would be throwing only
fastballs and changeups before the game.
Management is a joke on this team all the way to the top.
We all love the A’s but this team will never win anything with the clowns that are running the team
If it was a decision made before the game....
Then why the hell did Geren blow through his two most consistent relievers before he brought Bailey in?
And if it was a decision made before the game....
Why did Geren say today that had Bailey held the 2-1 lead Bailey would have pitched the 9th?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
No accountability for Geren's Blunders
I guess the front office didn’t notice how a certain umpire handled a blown call recently. The post hoc justification makes it clear that Geren is an idiot, and the front office feels compelled to justify his idiocy rather than to keep silent and make fans wonder if the front office knows.
Just like Congressman Big Joe from Texas the release of the post hoc explanation makes clear that the front office is covering for horrific management rather than stepping up and owning the blunder(s).
Juxtaposing
I have heard that catchers make the best managers, in theory, because they are used to managing the game. But then if they are so smart, why is their equipment called the tools of ignorance? (not THAT equipment!)
Just because Scioscia and Girardi are good managers and ex-catchers does not mean that somehow Geren is a smart manager, as evidenced by his moves that even the casual fan calls into question. The man is clearly not baseball smart.
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
I think Sal Fasano will be a great manager.
Sal was a crummy hitter, but he was great in every other way, both tangible and intangible.
He’s managing somewhere in the minors now.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Mike Heath!
Mickey Tettleton!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
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