Who Do You Root For (And Against) and Why?
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 8:01 AM PDT
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PrintUpdate: In what is the least-surprising news of all time, Jane Lee just tweeted: "Duchscherer to DL, Ramirez called up."
It is an age-old argument not unique to sports, but in any situation where high-profile personnel is involved: Is our enjoyment of a person's talents lessened by their undesirable (to us) actions? Or to make it baseball-specific: Should a player's off-field life affect how we feel about them on the field?
In theory, this discussion revolves around two sides: The fan who will root for a player as long as he is on the favored team, regardless of off-field activities; it is all about game performance. This fan may dislike other good players simply because they play for a different team, and may dislike players on his/her own team if they are underperforming. This fan roots for players simply for what they bring to the game, and nothing else matters as long as they are playing baseball well.
The other side is much more affected by how the players seem in person, or in their personal lives. This fan likes players more for non-baseball reasons: charity involvement, similar values, good reputations, etc. This fan likes when his/her own team is winning, but has a hard time supporting players who don't line up with his/her own values and beliefs.
I would venture to say that most of us show characteristics of both types of fans; it's nearly impossible to leave all biases out of the equation, but what makes you personally root for one player over another? Is it simply baseball ability and performance?
When "morality in baseball' is mentioned, the very first thing I always think about is the Hall of Fame. It has long been my opinion that off-field activities should have no bearing on a player's eligibility for the Hall, as evidenced by many inducted players (ahemTyCobbahem), who couldn't win citizen of the year if they were the only person left on Earth. I think phrases like "good guy" and "great teammate" and "super person" are superfluous when it comes to the vote; if a player has the numbers, they should be in the Hall.
In theory, I should feel the same way about my baseball team, and for the most part, I do. I have my own personal biases, but I'll be the first to admit that it's hard not to root for a player who is hitting 30-40 homeruns a year for your team (and if you can find me one of those, I would probably look the other way should he have a sketchy off-field life). I still look back fondly on the McGwire/Canseco years, even though new evidence has changed my opinion of the players as people. But had I known it then; would I have not rooted for them? I'd like to say no, but let's be honest; it would have taken about one important Canseco homerun to convince me that everyone was wrong about him and that he was a swell guy.
But why are those characteristics mutually exclusive? Why can't a player be a "bad guy" off the field and still be a great baseball player who I love watching on my team? And more importantly, how bad is too bad? Where is the line between "he made a mistake" and "I don't want him to play for my team"?
This conversation was sparked in the comments of jeffro's awesome post yesterday when someone suggested picking up Elijah Dukes. I don't want him on my team because I don't think he's a very good baseball player and he has reportedly caused issues in the clubhouse. Others don't like him because of his own reality show Kate +1, Kate +1, Kate +1, Kate + 1, Kate +1, Kate +1, Kate +1, Kate +1, or maybe because he has threatened his girlfriends with texted pictures of handguns. It makes my complaining about a great player like Holliday just because I felt like he didn't give a damn seem moot, although many don't like Holliday because of a clash with his religious beliefs.
Others have very strong feelings about players who get tagged with a D.U.I., something that has happened to the A's in the past. Personally, I feel very strongly that if I can manage to obey the law with my (comparative) limited resources, driving drunk should never even be an issue for people with the money and resources of baseball players. Yet it happens. Does it affect how you see the player in the future?
How do you feel about the "party boy" persona, a la Jason Giambi? Does it matter if they're married? If they're single? Even if you don't like A-Rod, would you still root for him on your team? (And say what you want, but I'd take A-Rod on my team, in exchange for quite a number of our awesome, community-friendly Athletics, no offense, guys! Get it, no offense...?)
I never said you had to be rational. I just want to know why. (And it should go without saying that I don't want a flame war. If you don't like a type of player because of his religious or political involvement, just say that; there's no need to elaborate; we'll assume you believe/think/support in a different way.)
Chat all you want now, because it's going to be a brutal weekend, as the white-hot Rays storm into town, looking to take apart our fragile, light-hitting, YET IN FIRST PLACE A's.
Current Series
3 game series vs Rays @ Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum
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Tampa Bay Rays Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:05 PM PDT Mostly clear. Winds blowing out to right field at 5-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 65. |
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| Sat 05/08 | 1:05 PM PDT | |
| Sun 05/09 | 1:05 PM PDT | |
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I root for (and against)
Jack Cust (highly hyped, went down the pipe, then resurrected himself. seems like a good guy, resilient)
Jack Hannahan (again worked himself back up)
Brad Ziegler (developed a connection when he reached out to AN and seeing his progress is very enriching)
Swisher (seems like a good, fun guy)
Blanton (workhorse, no BS, goes out and does work)
Jeremy Brown (from Moneyball)
Huston Street (local boy somewhat, seems like a good guy)
Ross Ohlendorf (local boy)
Braden, Anderson, Cahill, Mazzarro ….. only because they play for the A’s
a few others….
against
John Lackey (don’t like Angels or Sox, seems annoying)
most of the Red Sox team, to some extent the Angels too
If he wants to run across the pitcher's mound, tell him to go do laps in the bullpen - pepe
Let's hope Gio keeps up his improved command and that Sheets can finally find his groove...
Does anyone haveinjury updates on Buck and CoCo??
Cust or Chavez at DH?
OT Much?
But since you asked: Buck is having open heart surgery next week, since the angioplasty was unsuccessful. Doctors say he should be available two to three days later, when he is taken off the ventilator. Coco should be ready by Monday’s game, as he glued his pinky to his fourth finger and it works just fine now. He modulates the pain with increased doses of MLB-approved Valium. Chavez will be staying at DH, since his OPS is currently .965, and shooting upwards, based on his three HR game against Texas. Gio’s newest Command is “Alt-R,” which when entered on his glove keyboard instantly turns the field bright orange. Oh, and Sheets had three consecutive psychoanalysis sessions with Stella Jung – he is in the starting lineup today as Catcher and batting 8th (before Rajai), kind of an anima/animus sort of thing.
Geez, man, where ya been?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
by paris7 on May 7, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
LOL
that was awesome, paris
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
by cuppingmaster on May 7, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Fantastic
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Root? Root?
Vat is this “rooting” to veech you refer? Em I a peeg, to be rooting amongst de clumps of dirt and smootch looking for de mushrooms und de turnip?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
hey peoples... it's just a misunderstanding...
If I remember correctly, our friend MMunoz33 is in the military and does not have regular internet access. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt here.
Buck and Crisp aren’t really close to coming back, but Crisp might be back in a couple of weeks. Chavez looks like he’s toast, unfortunately. Cust has regained his stroke in Sacramento and I hope he doesn’t get called up until Sunday at the earliest, because I’m going to the RiverCats game Saturday night and I want to see him play.
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks, Gaijin.
And for the record, I thought that MMunoz’s response to me (rooting against me) was hilarious and in good sport!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
I hope so, but I wasn't sure.
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Simply awesome. That's why I come here. Gotta have that fresh A's news...
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
I might not be moral enough for some of you.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
me neither,
but that’s why we’re stars, baby!
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
you are right.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I guess I should rephrase
I root for
Workhorses
Rags to riches stories
People who overcame a lot to be where they’re at
People who we’ve connected with, even peripherally
People who I know a bit more of a backstory
Root against
Bad guys
A Holes
Angels and Red Sox
Lazy
Don’t slide and don’t touch home plate after being interfered with (Boneheads)
I’m conflicted about Milton Bradley who is a mix of a lot of things
If he wants to run across the pitcher's mound, tell him to go do laps in the bullpen - pepe
I'm guessing you're not a JaMarcus Russell fan??
since you root against players who are Lazy and boneheads… whoops wrong site! :)
My list is essentially the same
The thing is, though, there’s always a backstory. We don’t know what factors have played a part in Milton Bradley’s obvious emotional and psychological problems, but I’m confident that they had a profound effect.
I couldn't have said that better
I’m absolutely conflicted about Milton Bradley. On one hand, I’ve seen him in person in a small group setting (Buan’s radio show in 2006) and he was the most genuine guy; thanking the Oakland fans for supporting him and for all we do for the team as fans, but every story that comes out just makes me sadder and sadder. I compare him to how I felt about Darryl Strawberry back in the day…LOVED the guy and just wanted him to play ball, but every step he took backwards just made me sad.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I always root for Milton Bradley
Except for that time when Macha picked him up an carried him back to the dugout. Had to root for Macha on that one, that was just hilariously awesome.
Milton Bradley was the first person I thought of when I saw your post. I always felt like he was coming from a genuine place, it’s just not a place that’s very compatible with other human beings, or umpires for that matter.
Derrick Coleman is my power animal.
by bloodsweatndonuts on May 7, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Isn't it all about camaraderie?
I think my stance is more toward the rooting for my team regardless of performance and against all rivals.
I tend to be one of those people that will boo on a pitch called a Ball, even though I’m sitting in the Plaza 100 rows up. Not because I know anything, but because I feel it’s all about camaraderie. And I fully expect the other team to give me a hard time (at their stadium, not ours!).
I actually laugh the hardest when the whole stadium is booing for next to no reason, because, well… those are our A’s, and whatever just happened was not in their favor! So it must have been wrong!
Oh, people I root against. That list is long.
It’s usually because I feel the guy is a complete asswipe in one way or another.
The player in sports I think I dislike the most for no justifiable reason (except he’s beyond overrated) is Steve Nash. I just wanna punch him in the nose, but he’s a fantastic player and he seems like a really nice guy. Still, punch to the nose.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 7, 2010 8:25 AM PDT reply actions
I wouldn't blame Russell for being a bad football player who a dumb organization picked when they shouldn't have
Very few people thought Russell was going to be any good. He lived up to his potential as far as I’m concerned.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 7, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
That made me laugh...
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
Derrick Coleman is my power animal.
by bloodsweatndonuts on May 7, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
the player I'd like to punch in the nose would be
John Lackey
problem is, his face already looks like its been punched numerous times
If he wants to run across the pitcher's mound, tell him to go do laps in the bullpen - pepe
Why is that a problem?
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
I agree, I'd love to punch Lackey in the face
Even his name “Lackey” sounds like a sinister individual. I’d like to see him go away. He has always killed the A’s and he has a real snotty attitude that just gets under my skin.
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
For me
it is always the people, which make it especially tough in this age of constantly changing personnel on a team such as the A’s. Since the people could change at any given moment, and the city could as well for that matter, does ‘real fanhood’ lie in loving a uniform? Or perhaps loving Billy Beane? Well for me it is always the people. I still root for Barry Zito even if he wears a different color scheme (and an awful one at that). And I don’t really love Billy Beane to be honest. I don’t like the way he treats people. Save the cries of, "this is a business!’ I know, I know… But the man is a personal friend of Newt Gingrich…
by Chilango on May 7, 2010 9:30 AM PDT reply actions
Isn't Newt's best friend like a liberal Democrat or something?
This is vague half-remembrance, but I seem to recall him being bosom buddies with someone who’s completely the opposite of him politically.
Which has nothing to do with Beane (who always came off as sort of a libertarian type to me), but it does make the point that one should not convict someone by association.
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
Ted Kennedy and Orrin Hatch were close friends.
Barack Obama’s mentor in the Senate was a Republican.
In the recent past, cross-party friendships were very common. They are much less common now. I don’t agree with Lindsey Graham on much, but I wholeheartedly agree with him that this is a change for the worse.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
The ragin cajun James Carville is married to Mary Matlin who is his counterpart with the GOP
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
by designatedforassignment on May 8, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
that theyre both obnoxious blowhards? Oh not that connection?
"Since other people actually read these threads, though, probably best that your particular brand of wrongness not go completely unchallenged." - PT
by designatedforassignment on May 8, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Fan douchebaggery has an influence on player-hatred, too
If a player without previous credentials becomes the favorite of an intrinsically douchey group of fans — say, the Yankees or the Red Sox — then that player will forever carry that burden. That’s a great deal of why I hate Jeter, for instance, and, on the other hand, it’s why (until the incident with Dallas) I’d tended to cut ARod some slack. Big Papi is another example of this. Or if HH decides that some young player is their Permanent Panther, he’s going on my shit-list.
And at the same time, if an intrinsically douchey player becomes a favorite of a fanbase, then that fanbase will taint a lot of their other favorites. Should Dustin Pedroia end up with the Astros and he becomes their super-favorite superstar, then I’m going to have to start disliking a lot of other Astros players, too.
Basically, it’s all about the schadenfreude.
BTW, Scutaro has “previous credentials”, and Giambi did too, until his Letterman appearance (not to re-open that can of worms).
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
This is a topic I love to discuss, as many of you know
I’ll keep it as short as possible. In my childhood and on into my early twenties, I “loved” the guys on my favorite team — I pictured them all as Boy Scouts, doing community service in their spare time, feeding the homeless, etc.
About the time I turned 25, however, I got a job driving a limo and I began to meet many of the Oakland A’s during our hey-day in the late 80’s. I quickly learned that many of the guys on my favorite squad were jerks, plain and simple. What was worse, I learned that many players that had the rep of being “nice” or “good” were actually oftentimes the biggest jerks on the team. And the opposite was true as well … the guys with the “bad boy” image were often the nicest I met.
Finally, the lightbulb came on. We have no way of knowing who’s good or bad. Unless we’re in personal contact with players regularly, all judgments of their personality/character/ethics are completely subjective. IOW, you have no idea who’s a “nice guy” and/or who’s a “jerk”.
Therefore, I don’t allow that to influence my support for players on my favorite team. If you wear an Athletics jersey, I root for you. Period. I don’t know about your personal life and I don’t care. I don’t mean that in a bad way — it’s not like I want them to do evil things or be bad people — I’ve just realized that I have no way of knowing either way. Personally (and I know this may offend some people) – I think we ought to leave the “hero worship” back in the sandbox with our childhood.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
by Vacafan on May 7, 2010 9:54 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
"I’ll keep it as short as possible."
But why? Tell me more!!!!
(And I like everything you said, and I agree. There is simply no foolproof way to label players unless you know them personally.)
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Lol - I'll give you one "name"
And a reason I’ll never hate on him … Canseco was one of the nicest guys I ever met … always considerate, always polite, always tipped BIG. Love that dude … now, I can’t speak for his motives the last 5 years … but everything he’s said/written (?) Right. on. the. money.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
I cried when he was traded.
Honest to God. Granted I was 16, so it might have come with the territory, but he was my favorite A’s player of the time, and it wasn’t even close. Now he plays softball nearby and (it seems to me) shills his book/legend/stories every chance he gets, and it’s different. He sold out a lot of people for profit, and while he did appear to be telling the truth, I don’t think his motives were to be the bright shining beacon of truth in a corrupt world. So I look at my old posters, and it’s different. And that’s sad.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, it saddens me that nobody told you this before your mid-20s.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 7, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point ... should've known better
I’ll be telling my kids this at a very young age. Does this mean you agree?
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Vaca fan is correct
My ex-gal pal worked for the MLB. She praised Vlad, Dotel, Warren Spahn, and Bobby Thomson.
She had many other bad stories. But I try to focus on the positive, although that doesn’t always work.
Rooting for the Yankees is like cheering the tanks at Tianamen Square.
Great post
I like the guys who play the game “the right way” so to speak. The guys who hustle, play hard, PLAY DEFENSE, etc…regardless of what team they’re on. For instance, I HATE the Yankees, but like Jeter.
I’m also prone to root for the young guys with real talent, real bright futures…
I’d have to say that right now, the guys I follow the closest would be Raj and Suzuki, Lincecum, Andrew McCutcheon, Jason Heyward, and Mauer. Guys that just seem to be hard workers, love the game, and are fun to watch.
As far as the off-field perception goes…I’m also a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, and, I don’t know if anyone’s aware of this, but our QB has found himself in a couple of off-field “situations” recently……….. To me, off-field perception, how an athlete carries themselves away from the game, now matters to me more than ever. It started with the whole steroid thing in the late 90’s (Bonds and Mac were two of my favorite players at the time), and now with Ben. As such, I tend to also root for the “good guys,” or at least the guys whose reputation has been corrupted yet by TMZ.
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 10:00 AM PDT reply actions
But see, this is my point
(and I don’t mean to just single you out, NoCal), but you really have no clue who the “good guys” are … and if you’re going to allow TMZ to make that determination for you, you’re making a big mistake.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Oh totally, but it's not like TMZ makes up stories out of thin air
If they can’t find a scandal on the very famous, very well-liked Derek Jeter, for example, he’s either covered things better than any athlete out there, or he’s a guy whose lifestyle doesn’t lend itself to sensational news stories.
They were right about Tiger, A-Rod, and a host of other situations…and not that it’s fair to place a “good guy/bad guy” label on a player based on a TMZ story, but if you are one who doesn’t agree with certain lifestyle choices, you’d find plenty of fodder there.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Another good point
TMZ doesn’t make this stuff up. Now, I had never heard of TMZ until last summer when they broke the first Ben story and I didn’t give them much credit. But now, they’ve been right more than they’ve been wrong, at least lately.
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
But the TMZ's of the world might go easy on "good guys" like Jeter and Tiger Woods, for whatever reason
Maybe because it’s in someone’s financial interest to maintain the good-guy myths or personae. (Maybe so much so that the team and/or player is willing to pay off the paparazzi.) In Tiger’s case, I’d guess that it reached a point where his secret life just couldn’t stay a secret any longer.
Doubtful
TMZ stands to make a lot more $$ through reporting these stories accurately, than by getting paid off.
They have a TV show now believe it or not!!
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Not now, But as I suggested, that might be because it reached a certain boiling point
I mean, he reportedly had partied in Las Vegas, Atlantic City and who knows where else on who knows how many occasions, he had reached double digits in his philandering, etc. There may come a point where it’s inevitably going to come out. But at least someone had to know about all this while it was going on, yet it took a while to get out.
Tiger's secret life? Didn't know he had one.
I’ve always guessed he had a private life, which I am not very interested in. But a secret life, now that is exciting. Was he a CIA agent? Soviet spy? Successor to Castro? Batman?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Secret life, private life, whatever you want to call it
But I thought terms like “double life,” “secret life,” etc. are commonly used in this way. You know, the secret cross-dresser; the closeted married man; that kind of thing. But if I ever learn that Tiger was some sort of international spy or something like that, I’ll pass on the news.
That would be kind of awesome actually...
…no one ever complains about how many women James Bond had…
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh.
Well, shoot.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps you didn't understand my point, Ray.
The difference between “secret” and “private” is fundamental, even if to you it is just a matter of “whatever.” When we believe that other human beings have “secret” lives instead of “private” lives, then we are committing to TMZ or The New York Times to reveal for us the nature of the secret. But privacy is a value, even if it is not highly valued in our society of the spectacle.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
What bothers me especially about Tiger Woods
is that as a huge celebrity he had to know he was running the risk of it all coming out, and the humiliation he would put his family through if it did. It’s not so much that he compulsively cheated on his wife, it’s that his wife has to deal with everyone she encounters knowing that her husband cheats on her every opportunity he gets. I can’t imagine how terrible that must feel. It was her private life too, and he’s wrecked it.
I'm not sure I, or anyone, could be expected to glean all this from your cryptic post
It appears that Tiger kept the philandering a secret from, most important, his wife. In that sense, and in her (probable) view, it doesn’t matter a damn whether you call that part of his life “private” or “secret.” THAT’S what I was focusing on.
Now, whether the rest of us are entitled to know about it is another matter, one where the distinction you draw comes into play. And I agree that we don’t have the right to probe into people’s private lives, and that this kind of media spectacle erodes our society. That said, are you suggesting that we do have a right to know about an individual’s “secret” life, in the sense that you used it?
Irony is indeed a skill, and I apologize for having wielded it so crudely that it appeared to you instead as crypticism.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Well done, sir.
I don’t think these are easy issues to resolve (see the discussion on players accused of crimes elsewhere in the thread). I do know, though, that having sex with other people is one of the constants of human behavior, and I am not sure how to judge such behavior as morally blameworthy. I am sure, at least, that these entanglements are of no interest to me. Unless there is video! (Just kidding.)
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Part of the reason these athletes are getting paid _so_ well though
Is because they’re giving up quite a bit of privacy to do so.
I have no sympathy for any entertainer that complains about the paparazzi. The reason paparazzi are bugging celebrities is the entire foundation for their success.
Honestly, I don't think so
I’m with you though, I have ZERO idea how Tiger kept his lifestyle under wraps for as long as he did. When the story kept breaking, I was wondering how in the world no one knew he cheated once, much less with dozens (or more) women.
But I think TMZ ate up every single minute of that scandal. There’s no way they wouldn’t break the story if they had had it; and I’m SURE it would be the same if they had anything on Jeter. They seem to relish the breaking story of “squeaky-clean” athletes. If they aren’t saying anything about a high-profile “good image” player, either TMZ a) doesn’t know or b) the image is what it appears to be. IMO.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW, several months ago Deadspin published a very interesting article
on the sports star hospitality industry. Here’s the link.
for me this article provided a context for understanding how sports stars like Tiger could have had so many "affairs’ (not sure many of them even qualified for that term). I don’t think this is even a ‘secret’ life…
Very interesting...
…so that’s how the other half lives!
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
There are plenty of scandals relating to Derek Jeter
Haven’t you seen the Herpes Tree?
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
Hahahahaha
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Tough love, baby.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
This is a rare case where I'm happy
NOT to see a picture of Gabrielle Union.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Haha, of course there are scandals with the amount of women he's dated
I was more going along the lines of being a “bad guy” to women, or in trouble with the law, or being seen as basically a bad person. I see him more as a single, high-profile, rich guy who dates all the women he can.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
The type of spotlight is what I'm getting at, I guess...
True, without spending time with the players you don’t know who the good guys or bad guys are really (although, 3 of my cousins have met Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh, on 3 different occassions, and they all said he was a HUGE jerk).
Now, I’m looking for the guys who stay out of controversy. is that shallow? To an extent, absolutely. But maybe I’m also a fan of low-maintanence players. As an A’s fan, I enjoy the fact that we don’t have a bunch of knuckleheads making the news about DUI’s, sexual assault, possession of pot, fighting, etc… If they want to go out, drink, party, meet girls, I have no problem with that…“Boys will be boys”….but it’s when you wake up in the morning and read about them on blogs like this one, or hear about them on the radio, that’s when it becomes troubling. And when it happens multiple times…that just adds to it.
Here’s my point: I like the guys who get their attention on the field. Sid Crosby (sticking with the Pit, PA theme) is a great example. #2 hockey player in the world…all the attention, spotlight, etc on him……but you don’t hear a peep about him off the ice. Is he a good guy? Accounts that I’ve read would indicate yes, but I have no way of knowing for sure. But that’s what I’m now becoming more and more a fan of…the guys who you don’t hear about off the field.
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I know what you're sayin'
The Roethlisberger kind of stuff is the exception … when you think of the amount of professional athletes out there, it is pretty rare when a story like this one comes out. And I’m certainly not trying to defend Big Ben, or imply that he’s a nice guy.
I just think it’s a mistake to allow the media to tell us who’s “nice” and who’s a “jerk”. They get it wrong — a lot!
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
I completely agree with this.
It’s impossible to really tell “nice” from “jerk”, especially as was mentioned upthread, to make it to a high level in sports, you DO have to have some sort of persona on the field about your abilities. It’s what makes you a good athlete. Basically news stories can give us a snapshot (like negative press for A-Rod, or Jason Kendall visiting kids with cancer), but it can’t really tell you about the person themselves. You’d have to be in the circle.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
It's also possible that the same guy who is really nice
to one group of people might be really nasty to another.
My only second-hand knowledge of any A’s players (I have no first-hand knowledge at all) comes from a young woman I knew who had been at parties with some of them. She was something of a party girl, young and pretty, with the sort of top-heavy figure that attracts attention even when she’s not flaunting it (which she often did). She lived in the Danville area so crossed paths with some of the local A’s players. When I asked, the one thing she told me was that both Giambis were total obnoxious assholes. And this was coming from someone who knows what rowdy party boys are like when they are drunk and hitting on pretty women, and she likes that, but she still thought the Giambis were dickheads.
But maybe they were totally cool with their guy friends. And of course I don’t know the whole story, only her side of it. Or rather, only the part of her side of it that she chose to tell me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on May 7, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
it's different in the long term
When I was a kid, I hated Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson… they played for teams that competed with the Cubs and White Sox. (This didn’t apply to Willie Mays, everybody liked him). Now I like telling my kids I saw them play. Suspect it’ll be the same with Barry and A-Rod in 30 years. As to which of them were good guys personally…probably Aaron, possibly Koutax, probably not most of the others, it takes a certain level of arrogance to become a superstar.
by vk on May 7, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
That's a great point.
History adds distance. No one REALLY cares about a superstars personal life years and years down the road; it’s all about how they played.
You’d be hard-pressed to find fans who don’t gush about Michael Jordan and how awesome it was to see him play, and on and on, yet didn’t he go through a pretty nasty divorce where a lot of less-than-pleasant things came out about his personal life with little-to-no media attention?
Actually, there’s quite a few basketball greats who you probably wouldn’t want as role models for your children, yet you would love to say that you saw play live.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
But both were great ballplayers for their time
and if you said you saw them play, people are very interested in that.
However, you are right about Ruth though; hardly anyone mentions his image, yet Cobb is seen as the worst person ever. However, he was racist, and he did stab an umpire. Partying kind of pales in that comparison.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree, partying pales in comparison, but it can strongly influence how we view a player. Just ask Miguel Cabrera
The domestic issues in his case largely have been forgotten in comparison to his drinking and fraternizing with opposing players
Jordan
There was a book about his time with the Wizards that basically painted him as a control freak who still thought he was the best player in the world. It really took some of the shine off his deified persona.
(Granted, I haven’t read the whole thing yet, so the last half of the book could go on and on about how he loves puppies and rainbows.)
"Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you." - Satchel Paige
I imagine there's very few dominant athletes who aren't jerks, controls freaks, etc...to some extent
Michael was the best, knew he was the best, practiced like the best, acted like he was the best. That’s who he was. He had to have that mentality to be that good. Ali was the same, Bonds too…ask Jerry Rice who the greatest football player ever is…no surprise in his answer, and he’ll back it up too.
You have to have a level of arrogance to be THAT good.
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Completely agree
Bonds was a “jerk” via majority decision, and so is Griffey from what I hear. But I’ll definitely tell my kids about the first time I saw Bonds play…still with the Pirates, he and Bobby Bo went back to back TWICE!
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Please tell me that was tongue-in-cheek ;-)
As far as the off-field perception goes…I’m also a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, and, I don’t know if anyone’s aware of this, but our QB has found himself in a couple of off-field "situations" recently
Interestingly enough, we were at Disneyland last weekend and saw a girl about 18 rocking her Big Ben jersey. Both my sister and I were slightly uncomfortable. Sure, she can wear a jersey of her team’s QB, but wow, did it seem in poor taste given the current situation. And I totally agree about the TMZ reputation, not that I believe everything I read, but there are some stories I wish I hadn’t seen.
Say what you want about Derek Jeter; the guy has managed to NEVER have a negative personal-life story out there, and that’s pretty impressive.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
cut off throw.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh so you have heard of the Big Ben stories.... :)
Ya that’s a little much for me, that girl rockin a #7 jersey. I mean, to each their own, but it’s just a very sensitive topic right now. I have a #7 jersey, and I’m not sure I can wear it again.
As far as Jeter, the smartest thing that guy ever did was not get married. If Jeter would’ve gotten married, it’s very likely he would have been shed in a similar light as Tiger.
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I have always said this...
As far as Jeter, the smartest thing that guy ever did was not get married. If Jeter would’ve gotten married, it’s very likely he would have been shed in a similar light as Tiger.
Jeter’s been linked to all of the who’s-who in Hollywood for a decade and no one has ever had a problem with it. He’s a single, good-looking, rich guy who has dated a lot of women. What are you going to say about that? It looks like he has found his girl (I think he just proposed?) and he’ll be on his way out of baseball sooner rather than later with his reputation untarnished by the years in the spotlight.
Contrast that image with A-Rod; pictures of him stepping out on his wife and kids plastered all over the web; high-profile romances with other Hollywood personnel. It’s totally different when A-Rod does it (or Tiger) than Jeter.
And yes, disconcerting as all hell to see a young girl in a Big Ben jersey. What is she saying? That she supports Ben and the stories aren’t true? That he’s her QB no matter what? You would hope that even if he is your favorite player, you can’t reconcile what he is accused of doing, even if you don’t tend to take an interest in players’ off-field lives.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, again
This is exactly what I feel, and why I may not wear my #7 jersey again. The Steelers are my team, sure, just as the A’s were during the Giambi/Tejada steroid era…but I don’t have to support Ben. He wasn’t my favorite player, but one of them…now? Well, I hear JaMarcus Russell is available……..but that’s way too much football talk.
As far as Jeter goes, he should’ve been Tiger and A-Fraud’s legal advisor…they got jobbed over by their lawyers. He’ll go into history as a great player on the field, and a “good guy” off of it, because he never willingly made a committment, then broke it. Hell, Jeets probably made some Hollywood starlets MORE famous!!
breathe in deep feel your heart beat, just to know that life's worth livin'. feel your feet on the earth, better love it while it's still here spinnin'.
by NoCal-SteelCity on May 7, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate the Yankees
and I love my A’s
but I hate the Yankees more than anything in the world!
Depends on what the "off field" situation is.
Sexual assault (Rothlisberger, etc.), domestic violence, etc. - absolute hell no. Same with DUIs.
That shit should get you off a professional ball team—-for good.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
But outside of that stuff
generally, i don’t care about the “bad off field stuff”.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
I totally agree
it’s really a matter of what has gotten them the bad “off-field” attention.
I root for all A’s player on the field no mater what. But if any have had really bad stuff go down they drop to my “least rooted for Athletic”.
I hate all Giants players. But the reverse is true in that case. If they seem like good genuine people, they get the “least hated Giant” status
I always root for the A's
I always root against the Skanks and the Sux as well as against the slegnA. when they play each other I have to figure out who to root against most. (depends on the situation, I guess.)
As for infdivudal players: besides A’s players there are players that I really enjoy watching. I won’t root for them when they’re playing against the A’s of course, but I still enjoy them as ballplayers.
I really try not to think about ballplayers’ off field stuff, although sometimes it becomes impossible to ignore. My baseball obsession is a welcome distraction from my very absorbing job , so I try to keep it that way when possible.
I tend to lean toward the underdog
For me it’s guys like Jason Veritek I root against. Throwing a punch at A-Rod while wearing his mask isn’t even the biggest strike against him. It’s that self-important “C” on his uniform to show he’s the team captain. If he had a full set, he’d tell the equipment manager to yank that thing off his uniform or have his throat slit. The leg whip he put on Byrnes in the playoffs is just another reason to loathe him. It went way beyond blocking the plate illegally. That maneuver would have gotten him 15 yards and maybe an ejection in football.
The guys I root for are the ones like Brad Ziegler who had the deck stacked against them. Seeing them catch a break and make the most of it is most enjoyable. Same thing for that annoying munchkin David Eckstein. As much as he bugs the hell out of me, I can’t help but respect a guy who keeps getting the job done while everyone tells him he doesn’t have what it takes. Players who are always overlooked then shine when given a chance are ones I pull for too. I would put Bill Hall and Marco Scutaro in that category.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
Funny you mention Eckstein
in the spirit of “hatin’”(the sports kind – not “real life”) … I hate any player that the media tells me I’m supposed to like. If you’ve got “scrappy” attached to your name – I’m gonna hate you. I can’t stand Eckstein, Pedroia, any of those guys.
I hate Youkilis, too — any player that tries to give the impression he’s bustin’ his ass all the time — RELAX! I get it – you’re scrappy – please stop pouring water on your head in the tunnel so that I think you’re sweating all the time — besides that, it’s 55 degrees out.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
I care about what the player does, not what the media say
I don’t put Pedroia and Eckstein in the same category. Eckstein plays hard and well without running his mouth.about it. Pedroia was widely touted in college and the minors. Eckstein was told he wasn’t good enough. That’s a pretty big difference in my book.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
See, I hate Eckstein far more
Because Pedroia is actually good at baseball. It’s harder for me to dislike him.
It’s a lot easier for me to hate players who suck, yet who lots of people think is good.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 7, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
thats interesting I'm the opposite
I generally only hate players that are really good (A Rod, Jeter). I don’t see the point of hating on a replacement player.
Are you saying Eckstein isn't/wasn't good at baseball?
I see Pedroia as a player with greater ability but a level of obnoxiousness that makes it impossible to root for him. If Eckstein was a braggart, I would dislike him immensely. But from what I have seen, he is a humble, maximum effort player who had to overcome great odds to make it.
With their respective teams aside, would you be inclined to root for Papelbon rather than Ziegler because Papelbon is actually good at baseball?
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
Okay, I laughed out loud...
I hate Youkilis, too — any player that tries to give the impression he’s bustin’ his ass all the time — RELAX! I get it – you’re scrappy – please stop pouring water on your head in the tunnel so that I think you’re sweating all the time — besides that, it’s 55 degrees out.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
So, Adam Rosales: top of your shit list then?
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
If he were on another team, probably.
However, these silly “rules” are completely random and change all the time.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
I love this thread.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I take each athletes disgressions in a light of what that particular person did. Tiger Woods, I could care
less. The only one who should care, was his wife. Ben Rothlisberger, where there is smoke there is fire. LT, another, where there is smoke, there is fire. I guess I am more, if you are charged with a crime, or convicted or break a law. If they want to sleep with whomever they want, hey, as long as both parties consent, who am I to criticize.
I think about this stuff all the time
Personality is a big thing for me. I can’t stand talented douchebags! That’s how I feel about A Rod and Barry Bonds. A Rod slapping the ball out of Arroyo’s glove and running across the mound? That is bush league. But its worse because its one of the greatest ballplayers to ever play. Barry Bonds too, the guy who was also whining about how no one likes him – while paying hush money to the girlfriend he beat while cheating on his wife, and letting his best friend sit in prison for refusing to testify before a grand jury so he can break the HR record.
I love scrappy players. I root for guys that do a lot with a little and find other ways to beat you. When Raj has an eye for the strikezone he is about the most exciting player I can think of too watch. And I like Lincecum because he’s skinny and has long hair and smokes pot. I mean c’mon…
But I saw the LT news last night and it broke my heart.
Yeah. The LT news was brutal.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
When I was a kid I loved Roberto Alomar
Hearing about the AIDS/not telling his girlfriend of a million years he was infected and she could get it thing… that really bummed me out. This stuff does matter. If you’ve ever been close to someone who’s become successful in a way people find entertaining (sports, music, skateboards) then you know that they can get away with a lot of bullshit if they want to. Being a pro ball player, you don’t have to grow up and become a real man, as long as you can hit that ball far. But see, I don’t respect that.
actually, the HIV story has never been proven to be more than a rumor
perhaps it’s true, but it may only be a rumor.
In any event, both as a player and as far as community service Alomar is very highly respected, and I think deservedly so,
It's a rumor because he denies being infected, I believe?
Anyway I hope its not true. He’s certainly one of the top 2B of all time. But as far as community service goes, don’t you think its a lot less impressive when a multimillionaire starts a charity group and has their agent hire people to run it for them, then writes it off on their tax return? I might sound pretty cynical, but some guys do this for sure – live like assholes then throw some money around and now they are “great men.”
Also I don’t know if this is fair, but maybe I don’t give Alomar the benefit of the doubt because of spitting on the ump. I mean, shit happens and people make mistakes, and he did apologize… but WHO does that?!?!
Yep, I've never been able to forget that...
I mean, shit happens and people make mistakes, and he did apologize… but WHO does that?!?!
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, it's so true.
Taking a swing at someone who pissed you off? Yelling awful things in the heat of the moment? It happens. Actually spitting on someone? There’s just something about that, aside from being disgusting, that is more than just an instinctive reaction to extreme anger.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
by baseballgirl on May 7, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you're showing a cultural bias here, BBG
To you, taking a swing at someone seems “normal” so you can imagine someone doing it in the heat of the moment without really thinking about it. But spitting, to you, seems weird, so you can only imagine someone would do that deliberately with malice aforethought.
But both of these reactions are a consequence of the culture you were raised in. There’s no reason why it couldn’t be the other way around for someone else. And likewise for your apparent view that to spit on someone is more a violation that to hit someone. Both are offensive and I certainly would not welcome either, but personally I would feel more violated if someone punched me than if someone spit on me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I'd rather be punched than spit on!
Especially in a situation where there was NO WAY I could hit back. It’s not like the ump is gonna take a swing at him, you know? Plus Alomar was no wimp and could probably kick the umps ass anyway, so there’s nothing the ump can do. It’s way more disrespectful to be spit on – its more dehumanizing.
I dunno if this is cultural? Alomar is Puerto Rican and I don’t think they feel too differently about being spit on there, than we do here?
They might well hate it more.
I think the more relevant point is that it’s more likely to be an instinctive reaction in the heat of the moment.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It sure seemed like an instinctive reaction
I’m curious if anyone else has spitting over punching as a reaction to being really mad.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
Okay, I'm DYING....
And is that the cutest camel ever, or what?!
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
You might think it's cute
but the website I got the pic from says:
When a llama puts their ears back it means they are agitated. They may start to make a clucking noise as if they are bringing up stomach acid. Take caution they do not spit on you. When a llama spits it can be so hard it may bruise the skin.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I'm worried about my brain
I literally said, OH CUTE LLAMA! And typed “camel”
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
Seriously!
I’m checking for bruises!
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
It IS a cute llama, no?
Except for the spitting parts.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I meant llama...silly
obviously
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
You can buy one at the
llama mall.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It all depends on what you need the Llama for...
To each his own I always say!
Another year, another chance to hope for the team !!
That's certainly true, and I'm glad you brought that up
In my personal experience, I can’t imagine being spit on or spitting on someone else, and honestly, I can’t imagine punching either. More hair-pulling and slapping from the softball days. I totally recognize that spitting might be a reflex to someone else in the heat of an out-of-control rage, just not me. It’s why I can’t see it.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
And I honestly don't mean to be offensive (if any of that was)
I recognize that I hold a cultural bias (all of us do) and my own experience is all I have to speak for. In my experience, being spit on seems to be much worse than having a punch thrown, and means a lot more…much more “personal”, if that makes sense. But someone else might hold a totally different view on it and has another explanation for why he did what he did in anger, and I love hearing from everyone.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
See I could imagine myself doing both
Punching would be an enraged reaction, without forethought. I haven’t punched anyone in years, but my were my temper provoked enough, it wouldn’t shock me.
Spitting, like you say, is much more personal. The idea would be that I’m so fucking contemptuous of the other person, that I have no compunction about treating them without any humanity. I’ve never done this in my life( I spit on people a coupla times as a small kid, but not for the reasons I just gave ), but in my future life as a mob-boss, I could see appropriate situations.
Haha...
(slowly backs away from rrryanc)
Actually, I think you’ve hit on exactly why it bothers me so much. Punching someone seems very one-on-one; “respect” almost, if that makes sense. Spitting on someone is VERY personal, and does seem to carry with it contempt and dehumanization. That’s why it was so shocking when it happened; I doubt it would still be such a hot topic if Alomar had thrown a punch.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I associate spitting with defiance more than contempt
Like if a guy is really really pissed off at another guy, but he’s lost the fight and the other guy’s buddies have wrestled him to the ground and are holding his arms and legs. The guy who is restrained is still pissed off and defiant and would hit if he could, but he can’t, so he does the only thing he can do which is spit.
Or at least that’s what happens in the movies. Can’t say I’ve experienced anything like that in real life. (I’m pretty sure I would not spit in such a situation, but mostly because I would expect that to lead to getting beat up even worse.)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Oh, I didn't find it offensive at all.
Just pointing out that spitting is not necessarily worse than hitting, except if we make it so.
I can’t imagine that I would ever (intentionally) hit anyone. It’s just so foreign to my nature. I really doubt that I’d ever (intentionally) spit on anyone either, but it feels marginally less inconceivable.
If done to me, I would dislike either. The comparison depends on the magnitude. A light slap would be less bad than being spat upon, but being totally clocked would be much worse.
In my days of caring for toddlers, I have been both spat upon and hit (sometimes pretty hard). You can’t really take offense at it since they don’t really understand what they’re doing, but it’s still very annoying (all the more so because the little bastard thinks it’s funny and laughs at you). In those cases, being hit has pissed me off much more than being spit on has.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I've actually BEEN spit on by someone before
I don’t believe I’ve ever been that angry before or since. I was literally apoplectic for hours. Had I caught the person in question before being restrained, I have no idea what would have happened, but I can only imagine that it would not have looked good in the police report.
I don’t think I was even intended to be hit by the spit (I think they were trying just to be contemptuous by landing it near me) but believe me, I was not remotely interested in hearing anyone’s exculpations.
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
I'm pretty sure this is strictly you
People really do not like being “violated” with bodily fluids, on an instinctual level. That adverse reaction goes back to caveman days. I suppose it might be worse if you threw feces, vomit or menstrual blood at someone, but just a punch? No.
A punch isn’t going to kill you. Spit might very well kill you (if you’re living before the advent of modern hygiene) if the other guy is a vector for some kind of disease.
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
Male people, maybe
The species wouldn’t have lasted long if women were squeamish about being violated with bodily fluids. I’m sure it’s high on the list of straight male terror, but as a member of the sex that gets beaten to death all the time I’ll take the fluids.
This is a fascinating discussion
What you say makes sense, and what Paul says makes sense, too. Regardless of how individuals feel, there is the question of what instinctive reactions would naturally evolve. I wonder if men and women have evolved differently in this respect.
I have some other personality traits that are more associated with women than with men. I wonder if there’s a correlation.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I had a discussion with my wife recently
That I’ve also had with a couple of other female friends, and at least anecdotally, there seems to be a more visceral “gross” reaction to blood from men than from women (not necessarily brutal violence that draws blood, but the blood itself), which was speculated to be associated with women being used to menstruation while for men bleeding indicated something “wrong”. Not that this is exactly relevant, but your comment reminded me of the discussion.
I found it interesting that Paul mentioned,
along with vomit and feces, not just blood but menstrual blood specifically. I’m not up on biochemistry. Is menstrual blood more dangerous in some way than non-menstrual blood? There’s certainly plenty of religious taboo associated with it, to be sure, but I don’t know if that’s health-related.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I'm not aware
of any particular elevated risk vs. any other blood, but it sure does have a psychological power.
That.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
No, probably just because it seems more disgusting, I would guess
It’s a taboo and even if it was the “same” blood as an open wound elsewhere (I think it is, but I’m not a medical professional), there is definitely a difference to most people, I would think.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
And not that there's anything inherently "disgusting" about it
Clearly, I’m female, but that’s a bodily fluid that squicks people out, FOR SURE.
But what do I know…I’d rather be punched than spit on, even if one would do significantly more damage.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I think it tends to be more gunky because of other proteins that get mixed in
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
It's definitely considered more "unclean" among men than women
at least in a cross-cultural study (there might be a handful of cultures where the opposite is true). It’s universally considered more disgusting than other blood.
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
I kinda think it's holier than other blood...
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 8, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Holy to the earth goddess
= unclean to the sky god.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Alomar has been active with community service for many years
probably longer than he was on the “stardom” radar.
Community servie...
Like the the time he donated $50,000 to ALD research, AFTER he got bad press for calling the umpire he spit on “bitter” because the guy’s son had died from ALD?
he has been involved in Puerto Rico for many years
in community service. That might not make the news in the US but it’s very well known and appreciated there.
That's really good to hear.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
Since I assume that I disagree with all ballplayers' politics and beliefs I've never run the risk of disillusionment for that
They’re all a bunch of homophobic hunters, right? So I mostly hate the players announcers fawn over despite mediocre (or worse) performance, Jason Kendalll would be #1.
Awful lot of comments for no one to have mentioned Michael Vick…
You don't like hunters?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Sure, but isn't the hunter who stalks the prey
in its natural habitat before eating it more in tune with nature than the person who eats the cows and chickens fresh from the hormone-pumping torture factories?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Good point.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I love football
But I found the Vick situation absurd.
Lets take a bunch of aggressive guys, who might not be the brightest folks ever, have them basically do war with each other, pay them a ton of money and give them ample down time.
Then lets act shocked and horrified when we find them doing stupid things.
(Also, having people sacrifice their bodies for the sake of our entertainment is fine, having dogs fight each other for entertainment is the most depraved, atrocious thing ever!!) (Also, I don’t condone dog-fighting, but I do condemn hypocrisy – and yes I get that the humans at least have somewhat of a choice in the matter, but still ).
I also was surprised at the intensity of the reaction
to the dog fight thing. Yes, it’s evil, but not that much more evil than plenty of other things that don’t get nearly the attention. I saw it as another example of our culture’s selective reaction to animal abuse. Basically, if you’re cute and fuzzy (or even in the same species as other breeds who are cute and fuzzy) then you get sympathy. If you’re an ugly species, too bad.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I root for former A's
This covers about half of the players in MLB, so it keeps me pretty busy.
A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.
I watched him play for the Padres when I was a kid
He was one of my favorites back then. He had such a great skill set. Really, I think only Joe Morgan could have an equal claim to being the greatest 2B of all time. Anyways, I dunno what to believe. I gotta say this was a good thread! A healthy departure from statistical analysis:)
I’ll keep it simple. I root against the Rangers, Mariners, Angels and Giants mostly. After that, the next tier would be the Yankees and the Red Sox. I think everyone can figure out why.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 7, 2010 11:38 AM PDT reply actions
For - The A's
Against – everybody else
When a player leaves the A’s, I may love them for what the did in the past, but as soon as they put on some other uniform, they’re dead to me.
I can’t tolerate violent criminals or outright d-bags on my teams, which is why I would be appalled if the A’s signed Elijah Dukes.
As for players’ viewpoints and beliefs, it’s a free country, so even if they happen to espouse something I disagree with, if they’re wearing the Green and Gold, then they get a pass from me (a contrarily outspoken player on another team is, of course, much easier to despise).
BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD. BEER IS GOOD, AND STUFF.
I love when people talk for me.
What doc said.
I cheered for Crosby until the end because, damn it, he was on my team. Doesn’t mean I disagreed with what was said about him, but I wanted him to do well. In fact, I may have rooted for him more because of his detractors. Then again I have a drum and I beat to it.
I'm here to talk about the past.
For me there are two issues, overlapping but separate.
I do sometimes draw opinions of players based on their off-the-field personality that may make me like them more or less. I also care a great deal about how the reputation of the Oakland A’s affects the reputation of the city of Oakland, and I want to keep it as positive as possible.
My personal opinions have never been strong enough for me to root against an A’s player, and I doubt they ever will. There may be two or three guys out there I hate so much I could never root for them, but I doubt they’re guys we’d ever get. I disliked Jeremy Giambi a great deal, but when he was at the plate for the A’s I still wanted him to hit a home run and I was still glad when he did. On the other hand, I was even more glad when we got rid of him. There have been other guys since then who were not out-and-out douchebags but still were guys I didn’t really like. I still rooted for them and enjoyed it when they make a good play, though perhaps not to the same degree that I do when it’s another A whom I do like.
The reputation question is rather different, and it mostly applies to not wanting those guys on the team in the first place. If we had signed Barry Bonds, the whole nation would say, "ha ha, steroids, they sure love the steroids guys in Oakland." If we were to sign Elijah Dukes, the whole nation would say, "ha ha, he’ll fit right in in Oakland," and it will contribute to everyone’s stupid idea that Oakland is a city full of crackhead rapists who will kill you if you dare to walk the streets after dark. I hate that. I hate that so much that even if the baseball equivalent of Ben Roethlisberger was willing to play for our team for free and lead us to the World Series, I still wouldn’t want him.
This is not to say that I want to be in denial about Oakland’s problems. We surely do have them. There really is too much crime, and we really did have a corrupt and incompetent city government. (I say "did" only because I haven’t kept up in the past five years and can’t be sure, but I assume nothing has really changed.) Part of fixing that is being realistic about it, but playing into the media caricature (abetted by those invested in neighboring cities who have an interest in keeping us down) just makes Oakland even more economically unattractive and worsens all the problems we need to fix.
This sometimes goes hand in hand with my personal feelings, but not always. Barry Bonds, for instance, I don’t really dislike at all. I think he gets a bad rap on a lot of things and a lot of the criticism against him is way overblown. Nevertheless, I was vehemently opposed to him signing with the Oakland A’s because the story would be steroids steroids steroids all the time, and the A’s already have a bad enough problem with that.
I suppose the flip side is if some player were privately a complete douche but somehow the media overlooked it and always portrayed him as a great guy, I would have no reputation-based objection to him joining the team. But if I knew about him I probably wouldn’t like him much.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on May 7, 2010 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
On the Bonds thing...
That was one of the main reasons why I didn’t want him on the A’s either. I thought the steriod/perjury issue would just be too much of a distraction to the A’s, or any team for that matter. Which is probably why he hasn’t played baseball since.
Thats funny because
Miguel Tejada still apparently has a lot of love around here and he abused PED’s as much as anyone and I think Beane knew that and thats why he never even offered him a contract.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Like I said, we already have a bad enough problem with that.
All the more reason not to perpetuate it by adding more.
A lot of A’s were into PEDs. Signing Bonds would have thrown even more attention onto Tejada, Giambi, Velarde, and Piatt, and it would have encouraged further speculation about guys who have not been conclusively identified as users.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
While it is true, what youre saying
honestly, the damage has already been done.
If A-Rod wants to play for us, I’ll take him, and I’d root for him to do good things on the field. Being good at baseball trumps everything else.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Well, I disagree with that response.
If you’re messed-up alcoholic and you lost your job and your wife left you because you couldn’t stay off the drink, do you now say, “honestly, the damage has already been done”, so I may as well drink some more? Or do you wake up and say, for a guy like me it’s even more important to stay off the bottle than it is for someone else?
Sad truth, most drunks do make the first choice. I want us to make the second.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
But the entire league is drunk!
You are wrong in premise that people would say “ha ha, steroids, they sure love the steroids guys in Oakland” when literally every team in baseball has harbored them. Prophet-God Canseco, who has been batting 1.000 on this topic said at least 70% of the league was on PED’s when he left the game in 2001. That hasnt been proven….yet. But there’s a good chance he wasnt joking around either. Everything else he’s said has come true so far.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
I know that the entire league is filled with steroid users,
but what team has the reputation for being the steroid team? The Oakland A’s, that’s who. Thankfully that’s starting to fade. I don’t want to do anything that would help revive it.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Yeah like I said, if we got A-Rod or Manny
I’d be doing the opposite of being bummed about it.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Dudes I root for
The least rational reason I root for players is long hair / moustaches. What can I say? Catfish, Fingers, Reggie, Eck, Dave Stewart, Giambi, Bradford (before he cut the mullet), Swisher… classic A’s… I loved Johnny Damon as a player until he went to the Yankees and cut his hair – man what a sellout!
These days all my favorite A’s sport the clean cut look, and that’s cool, too. Because I also root for guys who wear white shoes.
So you root for the 1970s then?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
QOTM
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I usually only read AN and comment very little...
but I love this discussion so I thought I would add to it.
I love pulling for the A’s when they are A’s. Just like I love rooting against the giants, yankees, and angles.
When I was a kid Canseco was caught with a gun in his car and I never felt the same way about him. I still cheered when he hit HRs for the A’s but when he left the first time, I never really cared about how he did or really missed him.
But there are exceptions, like for instance, Swisher. He is on the hated yankees, so by defintion I shouldn’t like him anymore. But I still care about how he does and want him to do well. I just don’t want him doing well against the A’s.
Hi!!!!!!!!
Thanks for commenting. I stole this discussion from the other thread, and I loved it.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
How about Pete Rose?
Complete asshole. As big an asshole as Ty Cobb? I don’t know if that matters, but… I think he should be in the hall of fame because he’s one of the greatest ballplayers ever. I admire his style of play but just can’t stand him. But I think betting AGAINST his own team is so low – plus he’s such an unrepentant asshole in general – that he shouldn’t get to enjoy being a hall of famer. So I say no HOF for Rose til after he’s dead. That way WE can enjoy how great a player he was, without him being around to fuck it up.
I third this
It’s a sham and a travesty he’s not in for his playing abilities, but hell if he should get to enjoy it at all. I think baseball history is not complete without him in the Hall, and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if he did go in posthumously.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I think we should let him in the HOF
but only after we make a llama spit on him.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think this topic
Is based off your own personal values and attitudes. For example, I loathe:
-players who are loudmouth republicans (Curt Schilling)
-players who pull disrespectful moves on the field toward the opposing team (K-Rod, A-Rod)
-AJ Pierzynski.
Yet I love:
-players that stick up for themselves against the above (Dallas Braden, Michael Barrett)
-sketchy players
-Dock Ellis
-pot smokers
-Jim Bouton
-Manny Ramirez
-players with outside-the-box political views and life philosophies
-weirdos (like those 2 Yankees relievers who successfully wife-swapped back in the 70s)
-old hardcore punk rockers (like Scott Radinsky who sang for the band Scared Straight before he went pro. )
-badasses
-hotheads
-Bill Lee (watch the documentary on him, SO GOOD)
-Mickey Mantle
-Wade Boggs (I would pay this man to watch him drink 6 beers in 5 hours)
-players who hate each other but play on the same team
I honestly think baseball is one of the few kinds of sports on earth that has such a massive cross section of so many communities, cultures and sub-cultures that are represented, and that’s maybe why its so attractive to so many people. Its not a traditional “jock” sport, it’s a rare sport where you don’t have to be athletic to be great at it, opening up the field of potential players many times over. If you cant run fast you are worthless in basketball, soccer and most of football. David Wells has never run anywhere in his life. When you have that option to not have to be an “athlete” the field is opened up to the thinkers and non-jocks, and you are often going to run into crazies. You could seriously write a book about all the murderers, junkies and felons that have played this game, and the sheer amount of them would dwarf all other “wildmen” of any other sport.
Off-field is off-field for me. I don’t pay money to watch Ryan Sweeney eat breakfast and take a dump in the morning, I pay money to watch him play baseball. Same goes for Elijah Dukes. He can send picturemails to one of his many baby mamas of him in a tank with him aiming it at her house and all I’d ask would be: “Did he kill or physically hurt her? No? Is he in jail now so he cant help my team win games? No? Then that’s not really my business”. Because it isn’t. I couldn’t care less about what players did off the field just as long as my team is winning. I would cheer Dale Murphy the same as I would Barry Bonds the same as I would Ty Cobb if they did anything to help my team win, and they would have.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Hurray, Jim Bouton! Love!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
He invented Big League Chew!
He’s one of my favorite Americans. I wish they hadn’t burned all the film of Ball Four the TV show that only lasted 6 episodes or something. Would KILL to see that…
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Non-sequitur?
When you have that option to not have to be an "athlete" the field is opened up to the thinkers and non-jocks
How does not needing to be athletic open the field to “thinkers”? It seems to me that there are both thinkers and non-thinkers among the athletic population as well as both thinkers and non-thinkers among the unathletic population. Baseball may not require a traditional athletic build but it surely does require specific skills that have no correlation with thinking.
Actually, if I had to guess, I’d say there are fewer thinkers in baseball than there are in many other sports, simply because baseball puts relatively more emphasis on reaction and relatively less on strategy.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
"Thinking" in this sense, pertained more to the off-field stuff as noted in the OP.
I’m not saying there are not athlete thinkers either, there absolutely is, but there are more players in MLB who arent over 6’2" and have under 5% body fat like there are in the NBA. Face it, jocks aren’t often known as thinkers….uhh Joe Morgan anyone?
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Oh yeah how can I forget
Pedro Guererro and his IQ of 70!
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
That's why I root for Breslow
He’s a fellow Ivy Leaguer. Even if it’s the rival Ivy League school, still representin’ for the smart folks over educated folks out there.
I don't like complainers
Posada, Ortiz, Youkilis. I don’t like those guys because they complain at every strike.
You will note that my list is of Yankees and Red Sox because I can only watch TV games that are nationally televised. I assume there are lots of others.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
That's a good one
I hate watching Mike Scoscsia (I hate spelling his name too) managed games so much. Especially when its just time wasting whining. If you really believe the ump was wrong you should put your own stake in the game on it and have a full on argument about it. That at least is interesting to watch.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Agree except for Posada
After watching the program about Jorge Posada’s son, it’s hard not to pull for the guy.
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
I'm a Giants fan but.....
….I’ll always root for the A’s because I like seeing the Bay Area/No Cal teams doing well.
I root against any Southern California team and the Sox and Yankees because I can’t stand any of there fans.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
Giants fans can say that...
but not too many A’s fans do. Same with Cubs and White Sox fans, Stanford and Cal fans… the one that perceives itself to be the lower social class roots against the higher one, but the higher one can be benevolent toward the lower. Since I’m both a Cubs fan and an A’s fan, I can root for the White Sox but not the Giants. Bizarre.
by vk on May 7, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah
For me, if there is a criminal accusation or conviction, I don’t care. They have a right to the courts like everyone.
I, as a member of this society have already said what I feels should happen to people who get DUI’s or get DV charges or get caught with drugs or whatever through the state laws.
If the accused satisfy the courts, fine let them play like others are allowed to go back to working at K-mart, or selling insurance, or whatever.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Hmm
I think DUI penalties are far, far too lenient, and drug use penalties far too severe.
Should I therefore root against DUI-inflicting players in order to “even out” the over-lenience? Actively root FOR drug users? Seems a bit weird.
Arthur Dent: You know, it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young.
Ford Prefect: Why, what did she tell you?
Arthur Dent: I don't know, I didn't listen!
Embrace the weirdness.
I kinda like the idea of random death penalty for DUI’s…
Put 100 DUI convicts in an airplane, and randomly issue 100 parachute-looking backpacks, but only 95 of them actually have parachutes in them…
Splat times five.
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 8, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Just creepy enough to get my vote.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Doesn't nature itself impose random death penalty on DUIs?
That would take care of itself, if it weren’t for the fact that it imposes random death penalty on innocent bystanders as well.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Even though 95% of the people in your plan would theoretically live...
… we’d be down to the population of Estonia in no time. I did a lot of work with DUI’s at the public defenders office over the past year, and I think it would shock a lot of people to see just how common it is. And keep in mind those are the just the folks that got caught.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
it's easy
The athlete to root against is the most common breed: the one for whom it is apparent that life is their dream, and everyone else is just in it. You know them whence you see them, and many have been mentioned in this thread here.
I pretty much root for the benign whack jobs (Bill Lee) and against the toxic ones (Ron Artest), you guys know me.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
Does Eric Byrnes count as a benign wack job?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
one might argue that Byrnes' personality negatively affects his play
running into things gets him injured, and screwing up on a suicide squeeze made an out.
no
Eric Byrnes can’t STFU about how awesome Fox News is and can go to Hell or a beer softball league for all I care. OK, a beer softball league is fine.
Whack jobs I like include Manny “tip the guy who parks yer car $20,000 in the glove box” Ramirez, Dallas “My Mound, My Rules” Braden, and from the old school people like the Spaceman, Dock “LSD” Ellis, Charlie “white shoes” Finley, and Mark ’The Bird" Fidrych (RIP)..
Unlikable whack jobs include Byrnes, Alex “I can’t hear you and if I could I’d make you fetch me my car keys” Rodriguez, Curt “find me some right wing Republicans and I’ll go out and” Schilling, and Ron “life imitates” Artest. From the old school I tend to not like the racists like Ty Cobb.
I am on the fence about Pete Rose…. once I heard him say on TV that being gay is OK and gays should be allowed to live as they are without hassle from straights, so that kinda softened my view of him for obvious reasons. Milton Bradley’s another one… although now he is becoming harder to dislike based on this week’s latest meltdown and pleading for help to not kill himself before he’s 40, so again there’s a softening happening there.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought I was the king of hatin' for dumb reasons
but politics? Really? I could give a damn what political party someone hails from. Democrats and Republicans … liberals and conservatives … both have more than their share of grade-A, king-sized a-holes.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
It's inevitable that politics is going to come up in this thread.
BBG asked a question, and for many people politics is the answer to that question, so I can’t blame them for saying so.
Still, I would encourage people to refrain from going too far down that road. There are ways to tell us that you dislike players who voice political opinions you disagree with, without including any provocative partisan jabs or codewords that are likely to spark a full-on political debate here.
I’m attaching this reply to Vacafan’s comment, but I’m speaking to everyone. This thread has been good so far, but let’s be careful not to cross the line.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
yeah
I don’t hate Schilling or anyone else, he just irritates me for things I have heard him say that I thought were colossally imbecilic and, well, irritating LOL
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks...
I DID ask for it, knowing there would be a crossover, and I would prefer people to stay generic, where possible. “I don’t like so-and-so for their political beliefs”. We can all use google to find out what those are, exactly ;-)
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
but what about simple entertainment value?
aside from the really loathsome stuff (sexual assault, domestic violence) a lot can be said for the “villains” in Baseball. What is a hero without an arch-nemesis Sure everyone can agree A-rod is an A-hole, but would Dallas Braden’s attack been any fun if he was going after Nick Swisher?
I have a deep appreciation of players “you love to hate”
Love it.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
I agree that the "heel turn" players like
Pierzynski and Pay-Rod occasionally do is entertaining and fun and adds to the spectacle, but for me baseball is the most elegant game and the sort of pro-wrestling-i-fication of it tends to irk me on some unconscious level.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
But Dallas *wouldn't* go after Nick Swisher.
Swisher wouldn’t run across the pitcher’s mound like that. Because Swisher’s not a dick.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
by iglew on May 7, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I root for the nobody's on our team...
They’ll all be gone in the next 5 years so treasure it while it lasts.
Yer killin me kouz, yer killing me!
with the A's
You’re rooting not just for the laundry on their backs (although we certainly are), you’re rooting for a core human concept of innovation (good and sometimes — steroids — very bad) and well-gotten gains… the idea that we are never going to be the ones to contribute to the money-fication of the sport of baseball, and that we are here to prove to the elite wealthy teams that can buy whomever they wish that competition and even unprecedented excellence (see: 20 straight wins) are possible if you use your head and really make an effort to reinvent what can and should be reinvented in your field.
Also, it seems clear that our team has the most knowledgeable and hardcore-involved baseball fans…. when you’re constantly in need of the good castoffs and sleeper prospects from all 29 other teams cuz they are your only prayer of putting a competitive, efficient squad on the field, you get a small but ravenously informationalized fanbase that in so eyeballs-deep in not just the Athletics but all the other teams we will have to fleece to get over… well let’s just say that there may be only 15,000 of us at any given (non-playoff) game, but at least 7,000 of those folks (and SO many on here) are more qualified to GM a team than many current GMs.
For me the A’s as an overall concept with a lineage dating back 110 years are the purest underdog in all of sports, and this is why the A’s are the only team in all of sports that I care about and engage with at the level of passion that I do.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
This also teeters on the
“what would you think if a player came out and said he was gay” argument. Which is nothing that bothers me at all, but it should also illustrate further how little you should care about what players do off the field.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
in the case of an out gay player
such an admission would make a tremendous impact on youth, on probably more gay adolescents trying to play on who knows how many high school sports teams all over the world, especially in the US.
So in that case, the admission of gayness would have such a demonstrable impact in the real lives of real people outside the lines on the baseball field that you could argue for it being very important sociologically speaking.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh definitely
though I was relating it to the original topic of what it takes for a player on your own team to not be rooted for due to off field incidents. Seeing as sexual preference has absolutely nothing to do with gameplay, it should be categorized into the “none of my business” category, just as Elijah Dukes sending cellphone pix of his gun to the mother of his child is none of my business. I dont pay money to have Nick Swisher tell me he likes girls, so I wouldnt be paying money to hear Homosexual Player A tell me he like boys either. Gameplay trumps everything IMO.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
yeah
being gay and sort of a gay sportswriting person also, a player coming out would put him at the very top of my plus list, and I’d probably write about it extensively as my way of having that pioneering person’s back as they ventured into the uncharted territory of it.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Correct me if I'm wrong, but no one has come out, right?
Just Billy Bean (no “e”), wasn’t he someone who came out after baseball?
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
no one has come out as an active player yet
Bean and Glenn Burke did afterwards.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Got it...thanks :-)
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
"Admission of gayness" would have about as much impact
as “admission of straightness” … you place far too much emphasis on sexual preference. Nobody would give a damn in the long run, and that’s a good thing. It’s nobody’s business — I don’t care who one wants to sleep with. It’s irrelevant. Therefore, another thing that ought to have nothing to do with rooting for an athlete or not.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
actually
an active player coming out would in all likelihood provoke an intense reaction, perhaps multiple reactions. Other players might ostracize the outed player to a degree where it would affect the performance on the field, not just of the gay player but of the teammates of the gay player, who’d have to deal with quantum media scrutiny that would accompany such an admission from all quarters, pro and con.
The fans would react, in a likelihood, as well. When said player ventured into other cities and ballparks there’s no telling what might be said, yelled, or thrown. I’d imagine there’d be a somewhat divisive atmosphere, in some respects, created by such an unprecedented admission by an active player.
I doubt everyone’d just sort of “let it go” in this day and age, though… I think in reality you’d see Fred Phelps showing up to ballgames with his “God Hates Fags” crew and in general a gay ballplayer would not just be a blip on the screen at first. Much to the contrary, I think it’s enough of a hot-button issue, especially in the heartland, that it’d cause quite a firestorm and get a LOT of people rooting VERY committedly for or against such a prospective player.
I know as a gay person, I’d be watching it very closely and would be pulling for that guy, no matter even if it was Jeter and it was the Yankees, for instance (not making any implications, just an hypothetical example of a team/player I’d normally root against in normal circumstances).
Of course no one’d give a damn in the long run, but to get to the long run and the utipian future where these things don’t matter, you need pioneers who’ll blaze the tough trail where no one has gone before
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Utopian future, sorry
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
by emperor nobody on May 7, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Should the A's make a trade for an Uptonian future?
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
He'd just get hurt. Don't bother.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sorry. The future's your territory.
Please forgive.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
um
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
i root for: the A's, hotties, and underdogs/hard luck stories
i root against: sfgate.com putting out in the same week a front page article about how the A’s can’t fill seats and then one crying because espn sportscenter made fun of bengie molina (too much pro-giants around here) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?entry_id=63076
I love that you root for hotties.
It’s so pure.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I love that too
Everyone has a reason they root for baseball players, and it’s never the same one twice. That’s what makes it fun!
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
Its really hard for me to codify my likes/dislikes
1. As a rule, I like them if they come up through are system. Those that we pick up via free-agency I’m usually not so attached to. They seem a lot less like an A’s-guy then someone who is just wearing the uniform for a while. I never could really root for Spiezio, Kenny Rogers, jose guillen or any of the other mildly talented players that we traded for. Conversely, I loved the addition of Dye/Damon in 2001 and HATED the Matt Holiday trade from the get.
2. When home-grown players leave, I usually root against them instantly and delight in their failures. Sometimes they fail too-well though. In the case of Zito, I find myself actually quite happy that he has been having a bit of resurgence.
3a. There are a lot of players that fall into the Loveable-asshole category. For me its hard to hate guys like Manny because they are club-house cancers, but they are entertaining and they are not our cancer’s, so who cares?
3b. The A’s have had some real bad apples over the years but some of them fall into that loveable-asshole category as well. Who here can really say that they hate Rickey Henderson, one of the greatest assholes in baseball history? This of course will never apply to Jose Canseco. He is just a horrible human-being.
4. Good guys are always easy to like even if they crush your team. Griffey and Vlad have been my favorite non-A’s for forever and a day.
5. I always root for guys who don’t wear batting gloves, even if they play for the yanks, cause that shit is badass.
6a. This one i think is controversial but important. I dont blame/hate roiders who are from piss poor Latin American countries. For them they are doing whatever they can to claw there way out of a bad situation. I would do the exact same thing and SO WOULD YOU.
6b. I do blame/hate roiders who were the sons of fomer baseball players, had every opportunity to develop into a pro, were already great players and then decided to roid.
7. dave stewart is my favorite player, ever.
also, i always hated bobby kielty and his stupid fucking hair.
it occurs to me
that a player I really like is Jack Cust, that ind of story is the kind of thing I can appreciate. The growing up stuck in the batting cage by his dad 23 hours a day, the endless minor league bus rides, the false starts with so many teams, the 20-minutes-to-Japan phone call from Billy Beane, all of this I find very easy to relate to.
Add to this the fact that Jack, despite the fact that sometimes when he’s hitting you get the sense that he is only shopping for pitches and not really all that interested in buying, seems one of the most likable and unpretentious guys in MLB, with no trace of disrespect or unnecessary drama ever shown on or off the field… I mean, the biggest huff he ever got in was whether he’d agree to go to AAA, not exactly Milton Bradley racing at 110 mph through the streets of Seattle, swerving to avoid little old ladies walking their poodles in the night, just cuz Wakamatsu wasn’t digging his swing on some Ks, sheesh.
By all accounts Cust is total Class Clown, always making fun at his own expense in the clubhouse, kind of the anti-athlete (looking at you, Alex Rodriguez!!! smooching on the mirrors of your mind) for the stereotype of ego-dominance and supremacy.
Hello, I'm Vince Cotroneo for the Marmaduke B. Mushmouth School of Public Speaking...
Haha, so perfect!
Jack, despite the fact that sometimes when he’s hitting you get the sense that he is only shopping for pitches and not really all that interested in buying,
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
Regardless of one's views on the STRICKOUTS!!! question,
that is a really great line. Well done, EN.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Ozzie Guillen.
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
Loved him as a player
Most self-involved manager maybe ever. Huge turn off.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Local guys
Having grown up in a working-class neighborhood in Oakland, I got hooked early on Rickey Henderson as the local-boy-made-good, and then got the pleasure of watching Dave Stewart at his peak (the neighbor two houses down had gone to high school with Stew!). I’ve expanded local so that now I really enjoy it when Sabathia comes to town, or when Tommy Everidge had his cup of coffee with the A’s last year. I wonder if this will change at some point, as I will be moving away from Oakland to Europe for the next few years, and will “local” mean something different to me.
Also, other people have said most of what I feel about good guys/bad guys, but I generally have a high tolerance for recreational drug use/adultery, and a low tolerance for DUIs or physical violence. I would rant about what I saw as the ridiculous discrepancy between how the media treated Michael Vick and how the treated Brett Myers, but I’ll avoid the flame wars here (note: I don’t condone dog-fighting, I just don’t think it’s worse than domestic violence)
i went to school w/ tommy everidge
his grandma was my babysitter. i was really happy to see him hit that 1st hr last year.
That would have made me
a huge Tommy Time fan. That must have been a great experience.
When I am detached and un-energized....
…..I have a sincere sense of equanimity toward opposing teams and players, even the jerks whilst having sober to rousing enthusiasm for any A’s player no matter their performance.
But….sometimes during games, I get off on an emotional jag and curse and despise certain opposing teams and their jerk players and disparage inept A’s players who are not carrying their weight……then CLICK if things don’t go well.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
I root for good people
And I root against bad people
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
Hey not all cheeses are benevolent.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 7, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I root for laundry
I don’t really care about any of these guys lives off the field and to be honest there isn’t a player in sports today that I really hate or love like I did when I was a kid.
Growing up it was Marcus Allen and Carney Lansford that I loved as much as the teams they played for and it killed me when Allen went to the Chiefs. In fact that was when I really lost most of my affection for Al Davis for how he treated Marcus.
As far as true hatred there is only one name….Elway….I still hate that jerk but if he had been a Raider I probably would have built a shrine to the son of a bitch.
Now if you play for the A’s I root for you the short time you’re there and then mostly I forget about you once Billy Beane trades you for those players that will help in two years or you know maybe never.
I do feel bad for the kids growing up as A’s fans in that they won’t get to grow up with their heroes as no one stays on the team for long. This is true for many teams of course and is one of the reasons I think baseball could have some real problems in 20 years or so.
The one thing I notice with my students who are sports fans is that they all love the NFL and many of them are NBA fans but few if any follow baseball. I think the speed of the game is some of it but also the fact that teams just have so much turnover on their rosters so you never get to be attached to a single player.
Do football and basketball have less turnover?
I don’t really follow either very much, so I honestly have no idea. I mean, they have free agency of some kind, and in football I get the feeling that careers are generally shorter, but do you see more “franchise players” kind of thing?
for star players yes because both of those sports have a salary cap
so the biggest stars in each sport…Peyton Manning in the NFL and LeBron James in the NBA can play in small markets like Cleveland and Indianapolis.
In the NBA stars make more money by staying with the team they’re on as when they go into free agency their club can offer them more than the other teams.
Okay, thanks
Interesting to see how other sports deal with it.
In what is the least surprising news of all time
From Jane Lee’s Twitter:
Duchscherer to DL, Ramirez called up.
"Oh who am I kidding? The A's and Giants could stage a pillow fight, and I'd still care who wins." -67Marquez
Ugh.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
seriously ::headdesk::
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Just out of curiosity, how many players have been called up from Sacramento who aren't named Jack Cust?
Landon Powell (x2)
Matt Carson
Brad Kilby
Steven Tolleson
Trevor Cahill
Josh Donaldson
Vin Mazzaro
Henry Rodriguez
Edwar Ramirez
I know a lot of those guys were up here due to necessity (spot starter, extra bullpen arm, whatever) but Matt Carson over Cust? Tolleson?
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
There's a difference between those guys and Cust
Theyre all on the 40 man roster, he isnt. Someone has to be released before we can see Cust (not that many of those guys deserve to be on there anyway).
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
That's true.
But still.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
More eye-rolling news:
JaneMLB
Duchscherer scheduled to throw bullpen Monday. If all goes well, he could make May 15 start at Anaheim.
Emphasis, is of course, mine.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
John Shea tweets...
Duchscherer says he’s confident he’ll pitch saturday vs. Angels (15th) and feels 100% after cort shot
Well, I’m glad Duke’s confident, at least.
Well, that's better news than Duke feeling like crap after the cortisone shot.
Still, ugh.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
Duke's body hates him I think
it’s too bad he has some real talent but it sure doesn’t look like he’s ever going to be able to stay healthy.
I can deal with it.
I mean, we dealt with Harden and his styrofoam-sculpted body. And he was way worse.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
Yep.
Yep yep yep.
Sigh.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
I think Duke hates his body
He’s not going out there tentative, adding, “I have no fear of completely ruining my hip.”
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
Can you imagine how much ass we'd be kicking if we had a fully healthy team right now?
We wouldn’t just be hanging on to first place by the skin of our teeth.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Don't remind me.
Suzuki over Powell/Donaldson/Fox, Anderson and Duke over Cahill/Mazzaro, Devine over Blevins…we would be kicking ass, wouldn’t we?
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
Against the AL West, sure.
The Rays? We’ll see. :)
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I'm so glad HE'S confident.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
I'm still waiting for Dr. Crisp's second opinion.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
Remind me again why we need another pitcher?
We have 13 freaking pitchers on the roster right now. We’re playing with a 3 man bench. Why the f%$^ do we need Edwar rather than someone useful like, I dunno, Cust?
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
WHERE IS JACK CUST????????????
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
sorry. Friday desperation pre-Tampa Bay Rays series.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
IN THE JACKMOBILE HEADED TO THE COLISEUM
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 7, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Sigh. I wish.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Yeah, I guess, if we're just wishing for things.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Is that like a tastier, boozier Weinermobile?
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
Definitely not faster.
Possibly flashier. Probably same message.
My bologna has a first name. It’s O-S-C-A-R….
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
hmm I don't think I've eaten bologna since....1981 or 82....isn't this interesting?
I would talk next about bodily fluids but I see Paul Thomas and iglew beat me to it.
I'm either sorry or grateful I missed out on that conversation.
Ever eat fried bologna?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
oh sure....probably around 1979 or so
I would happily eat bologna now it’s just that I never think to do so.
I know.
Weird, huh? It was like a staple growing up. If it wasn’t PB&J, it was bologna. I probably haven’t had it in five years, since my dad’s house or my brother’s. Dad ate it until he died, pretty much and my brother still eats it. Seems very 70’s to me, though.
Maybe people with kids?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
It is a kids food....I used to love McDonalds as well
but outside of the egg McMuffin I don’t ever eat there anymore.
egg bacon and cheese biscuit.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
it's pretty good...I'll give you that.
Have you tried the BK knockoff? I wonder if it’s the same…
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
but it's supposed to be the same...
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
The BK one is on a croissant instead of a muffin.
I like it.
I generally prefer BK to McDonalds, primarily because it is somewhat less likely to make me sick. I get a craving for a fast food burger about once every three months, and usually I pay the price for it.
I hate their ads, though. That stupid king, blech.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
There's a Bill James essay where he talks about going to see Jim Abbott pitch
as he looks around the ballpark he keeps noticing more and more children with arm and hand disabilities. I always wondered about those kids, were they devoted Abbott followers, was it a great loss for them when he struggled and later retired? Did they become ordinary fans? Were they dragged to the game by their parents in hopes that it would inspire them? Did he inspire them?
Anyway, it was pretty hard to root against Jim Abbott.
by stormtown on May 7, 2010 4:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
Hell, I loved Jim Abbot, and I didn’t have to deal with anything like what he did. That brings back some great memories.
Don't forget
Dave Dravecky- cancer of the arm(?), and you could hear his bone crack on the radio in one of his first starts back.
Rooting for the Yankees is like cheering the tanks at Tianamen Square.
Wow
yeah, I do remember that as well. Those are the times where the human element looms large, and you just root for them to succeed just because it is so uplifting.
And rooting for the Yankees
Is like cheering on the guards at Auschwitz.
Rooting for the Yankees is like cheering the tanks at Tianamen Square.
sure....it's less offensive I think
not to be a killjoy but some things just aren’t funny like the Holocaust.
well, lions ate a bunch of Christians back in the day
I guess the Holocaust is only funny if Mel Brooks is filming it?
well, I guess that was more like the Nazis in general.
Might be a problem of proximity.
I’ve met Holocaust survivors. There very reasonably could be people on this site who survived the Holocaust themselves or had family members that did.
The same cannot reasonably be said about the Romans feeding the Christians to the lions.
Ironically, Italy was one of the few European countries that managed to protect their Jewish population in WWII…
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's my thought as well
I’ve met Holocaust survivors as well and in full disclosure my girlfriend is Jewish. I’m also pretty sure that 6 million Christians weren’t eaten by lions.
All that being said it’s not my place to tell people what is or isn’t funny so please feel free to ignore me….many people do.
MobiusKlein is correct
Most things Jewish are funnier when Mel Brooks films it.
And the Yankees are evil.
Rooting for the Yankees is like cheering the tanks at Tianamen Square.
Jane Lee has the lineup.
#Athletics vs. #Rays: Pennington SS, Barton 1B, Sweeney RF, Kouzmanoff 3B, Rosales 2B, Fox DH, Davis CF, Donaldson C, Patterson LF less than a minute ago via txt
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 7, 2010 4:37 PM PDT reply actions
Patterson ninth?
Could we be seeing the end? Has he shown Geren enough?
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
no Chavvy...
maybe we’ve seen the end of him?
"I’m actually a disgrace to myself right now." - Sean Gallagher (quoting me after a night out on the town)
Eh, it’s against a left-handed pitcher.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 7, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Against a LHP
This is where Matt Carson was useful. We don’t have any OF to start against a LHP.
For the record, Patterson has a .791 OPS since he became a starter on 4/24, and has an .823 OPS against RHP. I wouldn’t start him against a LHP, but Gross is even worse against lefthanders.
I'm afraid it's only because Price is a LHP.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
Will we ever see this lineup?
SS – Pennington
RF – Sweeney
1B – Barton
DH -Cust
2B – Rosales
C – Suzuki
3B – Kouzmanoff
LF – Crisp
CF – Davis
It sucks that we probably wont.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
Why the Barton/Sweeney swap?
It’s better the way it is.
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
You're fixing one problem by introducing another.
As long as we’re making imaginary lineups, why not fix Geren so he stops calling for sac bunts with his best hitter?
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
Hah.
Tonight, the Rays come to Oakland for a rematch of first-place clubs
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Aw,
sad Josh Beckett is sad.
I like the idea of rooting for whoever the away team is. Works well.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
Bobby Knight?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
it's ironic, no?
A man whose feet were taken by the “diabeetus” and no longer has need of socks, commanding the sock puppet army…my God, Alanis Morissette would feast upon you and your “General.”
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you guys for the Brimley schtick.
He came on the TV yesterday in the ICU where my dad was staying (angioplasty… he got released today),
and I started telling my dad about how Wilford is the evil leader of the sock puppets, and he laughed and started feeling a litle better. Then, I started saying “Diabeetus! Diabeetus! Diabeetus!” and that got the nurse laughing too.
By the time I got around to saying “Eating barbecued babies is the right thing to do, and the tasty thing to do it!” my mom was squirting coffee out her nose and the other nurse at the station had to get up to find out what was so funny.
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
"and the tasty WAY to do it"
I don’t know why I can’t type today…
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Good luck to your Dad G_S
I’ve had two Uncles that went through angioplasty and it helped both of them.
Dad okay?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
as okay as possible.
He’s missing a major artery in his leg… a birth defect.
The doctor says he’s gonna have to do angioplasty every year or two for the next few years, then graft an artificial artery, which will work for another couple of years, but eventually, he’ll likely lose his right leg.
He’s 62, and he’s also got destonia and torticullis… meaning his neck muscles spasm on one side of his neck, and he hasn’t been able to hold his own head up straight for five years now.
He’s a proud man and he’s pissed that he can’t do all the things he used to do. He’s not taking his failing health well at all.
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 7, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
My dad didn't, either.
Did nothing but bitch the last decade, and act all defeated.
And smoke pot. All day, every day. Openly.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions
My Dad's had two strokes...but he's still going strong
he doesn’t have the energy he used to have but other than that he’s doing well.
does he smoke pot every day?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I wish my dad would smoke pot,
but he’s also in the middle of a huge workman’s comp lawsuit vs the County of Sacramento that’s been going on for 7+ years now, and he thinks that if he tests dirty for pot, he’ll be kicked out of the pain clinic the county sent him to, and he fears it might give the county some ammunition in the case. I don’t think his logic is quite rational, but he’s convinced.
It’s all f’d up.
"We support your economy. We make your food and tend your fields. All we want are the same rights and responsiblities as you. Please... Vote YES on Proposition 801- Equal rights for sock puppets!"
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 8, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
you know the effed up thing about that?
My mother pronounces it the EXACT SAME WAY.
Maybe it’s a Midwest thing or?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Well the General is from Utah and that's not the Midwest
I think it’s just the way cool people say it.
or old, maybe.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
i dislike
the way Wilford pronounces ‘diabetes’. He was good in The Thing, but was a grumpy old man in an interview I saw years ago. And I mean YEARS.
Gio got through the first!
Rooting for the Yankees is like cheering the tanks at Tianamen Square.
ooo...she can feed on me anytime she likes
I always thought she was cute…The General however is too great a man to think about such things.
sitting here at the coliseum, I just realized that tonights firewoks are in honor of Bobby Crosby.
“One hit wonders”
There is no A in OFFENSE!!
by wacchampions on May 7, 2010 6:29 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
OLOLOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLO
K-ROD BLEW A SAVE VS GIANTS
LOLOLOLOLOL
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
That story's only got a happy ending if then the Mets come back and win.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
To be honest I would be more thrilled to see a BS and an L next to his name
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 7, 2010 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a blown save,
then a loss for the Giant after they pull F-Rod.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
So, a 76 year-old Jamie Moyer pitched a complete game shutout today.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
I've heard it speculated he should be able to,
based on the fact he’s a number five on a decent team, which means there’s still some to fall.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 7, 2010 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
And the fact that he's still successful with an 81-mph fastball.
So, uh, Satchel Paige pitched until he was 59. Go go go, Moyer!
The selfish, they're all standing in line, faithing and hoping to buy themselves time.
Me, I figure as each breath goes by, I only own my mind.
He should pitch forever.
Wuertz was scratched from a minor league game on Wednesday, but bounced back quickly on Thursday, throwing mostly fastballs and sliders, although he did mix in three sliders. -Rotoworld
by ElQuesoCapitan on May 7, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I suppose I don't have any hard and fast rules
Other than:
(1) I openly detest players who commit violence against women. Brett Meyers, for instance, is a disgrace to humanity whose face is conspicuously punch-free at the moment. I would like to fix that.
(2) I hate the Yankees organization, not necessarily the players themselves. That whole stink of corporate mannerisms that infects that clubhouse makes me wanna vomit. As do their gaggle of “fans,” many of which are losers named Clem from Bumfuck, Nowhere (abbreviated “NW” for all you letter writers) who wear the hat but know about 3% of the players.
As a corollary to (2), I tire quickly of the “plays the game the right way” crap that gets affixed to Yankee players that have achieved some nebulous feat. Derek Jeter is a corner outfielder, people, not a shortstop. Adjust.
(3) I loathe the Angels, organization and players included. We hateses them.
(4) I root for all the players the A’s have, and have had.
This is made easier by the fact that the A’s haven’t really employed anybody I find hateworthy. One of my few forays into FanPosting concerned my vow to take a break from A’s baseball if they ever hired Barry Bonds, due to my deep dislike for the gentleman (the many “see ya” responses I received were appropriately wounding and, of course, entirely on point). The prospective idea of hiring that goon as our DH was the closest I’ve come to struggling with the cognitive dissonance of rooting for someone I didn’t care for.
But donning an A’s jersey doesn’t necessarily mean I’m gonna get personally invested in your success. Esteban Loaiza (/flamenco flourish) didn’t do much for me, though I obviously wanted him to pitch well. Jay Payton‘s approach drove me crazy and I wasn’t altogether sad to see him go. Same goes for Emil Brown. I guess they fall in the category of “Stopgap Players That Pretty Clearly Weren’t Around For The Long Haul” (kaff kaff gurgle).
But just about everyone else I get a little attached to. Swisher leaving murdered my soul (anyone selling? I could use a replacement). As for the current team, I am man-infatuated with nearly all of them. Sweeney, Ellis, Chavez (rabblerabblerabble), Cust (hopefully soon), Dallas, Brett, Duke, Clifton Randoulph Pennington. It’s you, Daric Barton. It’s always been you.
And I love almost all of the players from The Good Years (‘99-’04) almost unconditionally. Yes, that includes you, Byrnesy. Come visit your boy in beautiful Eugene, Oregon, we have some excellent bike trails.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
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