SuSlu: Duke out for the year
http://twitter.com/susanslusser/statuses/14981244198
#Athletics announced Duchscherer will have hip surgery and miss the rest of the season
Apparently the hip injury really is the same as before. Props to Duke for pitching as well as he did, and trying to avoid the surgery. So is this bad luck, Billy Beane should've known better, or FIRE ALL MEDICAL STAFF NOW?
Personally, while I am bummed by this move, by no means do I think we're doomed. The rotation of Sheets/Braden/Cahill/Anderson (coming off the DL today, no?)/Gonzalez is performing admirably. Topic #2 for discussion: Should Duke have been in the pen all year, or was this injury unavoidable?
Discuss!
95 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I dont care if this was unavoidable
this could possibly be carrer ending and that is sad.
HILLIS...where are you???
It's probably the best thing for him at this point
That’s all I feel like saying about it right now.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
It's not the same as before. It's his other hip.
I hope it’s successful and he goes on to be healthy and productive outside of baseball for the rest of his life.
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
Different hip, similar problem
“#Athletics knew that the left hip might have the same problem as the right; Dr. Byrd told them “these things come in pairs,” Forst said." is the most recent tweet.
rebuildingseason.blogspot.com
by Rebuilding Season on May 29, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Right
But it wasn’t something that was preventable. This one’s not on the A’s medical staff
SIG SPACE AVAILABLE FOR SPONSORSHIP. INQUIRE WITHIN.
The only way to prevent it would be if Duke didn't try pitching
It was still a good idea to bring him back, and I’d consider bringing him back next year, too. The only thing lost is the money (which isn’t much). The A’s do a nice job with building pitching depth. Bring Duke back, but don’t count on him, and all is well.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 29, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
And always sign him on February 2nd
Every year!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd offer him the same deal next year as this year. Maybe a lower base, but overall same max value.
But agree on not counting on him.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Yeah, why not?
Depth is good.
Speaking of depth, I heard Brett Tomko might be pitching again soon.
Quality Jones is my kind of hero.
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 29, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Depth is good... having multiple injury-prone SPs so you can cobble together a rotation when 4-5 of them are (hopefully) healthy at the same time is not "depth".
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
If you rely on them, it's bad.
If you treat every inning they give you as bonus, it’s not so bad.
by LoneStranger on May 30, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I read on the A's site
this is a congenital problem. it’s been bound to happen eventually. nothing anyone could have done about it.
It was probably unavoidable
I don’t think he would have signed if he were to be a reliever. Good luck to him, please get helathy and sign a $4M contract with a national league team.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - dannycakes
It's not like we didn't see this coming
But, godspeed to Duke. We’ve probably seen his last pitch in an A’s uni.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Athletics Nation - WE'RE ALL GONNA MRIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! - danmerqury
Not surprised, but I'm sad for Duke.
Hope he can still pitch next year, even if it’s not for the A’s.
Agree with this.
I wish him well. I sincerely hope he recovers. I’d even like to see him pitch again… for another team. I want another team to take the chance. If the A’s offer him even minimum salary I think they’re idiots.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
i'd try him again next year for the minimum
why not?
Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.
As long as you don't expect him to be one of the anchors of your starting rotation
Last of the Ninth - Photography
of course
but i’d happily let him compete for the 4th or 5th spots in the rotation if he wants to for a heavily reduced price.
Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.
He makes less than $2 million this year because he's not going to meet any of his incentives
A similar contract next year wouldn’t be a bad thing.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 29, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
exactly
Way better than spending the money on someone who you know is going to suck, but not get hurt.
"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it" ~ Mae West
How about Brett Tomko?
He sucks AND he gets hurt!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
He doesn't necessarily suck.
He was okay with us last year.
Quality Jones is my kind of hero.
by Gaijin_Suketto on May 29, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
He has sucked his entire career
I don’t think he suddenly became good; he had a nice little run for us.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Like I said above, the A's are smart in NOT expecting that
Even this year the team has been built to withstand the loss of Duke (and the loss of Anderson).
Duek and Anderson have pitched in just 9 of the A’s 49 games, and they’re 3 games over .500. That’s not too shabby.
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 29, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
not to mention
that the starting pitching has performed much better than “3 games over .500”. It’s really astonishing that, after Anderson and Duke missing starts, we are still in a position where the offense is the only thing holding the team back. Great work from Braden, Gio, Sheets (after a few bad outings), and even Cahill (somehow).
Am I the only one kind of optimistic about the offense going forward?
www.zekeishungry.com
by thejd44 on May 29, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Possibly.
A LF who can slug .400+ would make me feel much better.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Eric Patterson!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 29, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Cahill isn't pitching well he is getting exceedingly lucky
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on May 29, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Hurray for luck.
I want a team full of lucky players. My team will beat your team full of good players.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
that implies that luck is a skill which its not
He's not missing bats and still giving up HRs like they're party favors at Chuck-E-Cheese - mikev
by designatedforassignment on May 29, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
And to think I once said you have a sense of humor.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
humor is a skill
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
You'd better while you can, because they're not repeatable.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Nico, don't they have an incentive deal in your contract for you to come up with so many lucky jokes?
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
Wait, I get lucky?
Woo hoo!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Same here
The guy can pitch. I would def re-sign him next year, esp if it’s around what we signed him for this year. He’s a low risk, high reward type player. And it wouldn’t have mattered if he were in the bp or not, the injury was inevitable.
Why is Chavy still hanging on? Just hang it up bro.
by sf drift king on May 29, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Chavvy is still hanging on because
his very large paycheck is contingent on him not hanging it up, but it is not contingent on him not sucking.
If Chavvy can’t cut it any more, the onus is on Beane to release him, not on Chavvy to decide to walk away from his very large paycheck.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
He also can be a high-risk low-reward player... as evidenced by this year.
I don’t want to come off as having a hard-on against the guy… because I really don’t, but geez, somebody’s got to have some sanity around here. I feel like even the so-called stat-heads are giving in to emotion. Getting all starry-eyed about what could happen. Quite ironic.
For a team as cost conscious as the A’s, his contract this year is not inconsequential, even at $2M.
As Albert Einstein said… Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
How many times do we have to go through this before we get it?
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
This "over and over" quote
has now been bumped up to Albert Einstein??
I guess the old attribution didn’t carry enough weight.
"I'm not going to comment on the cacophonous generation of ancillary noise". Ken Korach on the Tampa Bay indoor dome.
by One won lost won on May 29, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Einstein misattribution is older
than the Ben Franklin misattribution. WikiQuote cites the Einstein attribution to 1998.
That analysis seems to be based on web searches, so anything older is likely to go unfound.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I've seen Einstein credited more often than not.
Regardless… Einstein, Franklin… pretty good company. A quick search also revealed ancient Chinese proverb and AA.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
I think the real source was that Vikings coach.
Zamberletti? Something like that.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Zamberletti!
Of course!
I believe, ladies and gentlemen, that we’ve found the true source of a certain person’s definition of “insanity”….
…or, was it “insincerity”???
"I'm not going to comment on the cacophonous generation of ancillary noise". Ken Korach on the Tampa Bay indoor dome.
by One won lost won on May 31, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Two million is a drop in the bucket even for this team
I don’t see a problem with it at all. Who was it that they dumped off at over 4 million just to get a trade done? Taveras? This really is nothing. It’s a no risk, high reward situation. Just don’t count on him.
Ask me about my squirrel.
Why?
So more money, time, and resources can be diverted from other pitchers who might actually stay healthy? Been there, done that.
It’s one thing to take a shot in the dark when rebuilding, but next year is 2011… the supposedly magical year when all the crapiness of the last few years is supposed to pay off and the team makes a serious run. At this point the team needs to focus on players and pitchers who can be reasonably relied upon.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Our pitching isn't looking very complete next year
And it’s not like we’re using too much of those resources. It’s not like a $10 million contract. This is nothing. At worse, he gets dumped on the 60 day DL and he doesn’t even take up a roster spot.
Ask me about my squirrel.
What's it matter?
If there’s a 5-10% chance he returns to form without in any way, shape or form crippling us when he doesn’t, why wouldn’t you take that chance when that’s the worst case scenario?
Ask me about my squirrel.
No, I wouldn't.
Not at this point. This is why Vegas has all those huge glamorous casinos… people get all starry-eyed and irrational over what “could” happen, when deep down they know damn well it probably won’t, and almost never does. You’re pinning your hopes on winning-the-lottery-like expectations, and only a 5-10% chance of success (as I understand your post) for any player is piss-poor odds for a team trying to craft a coherent strategy and piece together an effective winning team.
It’s also not just the money. It’s the time and effort wasted on him that could be put to better use on other players who might actually stay in one piece, which is not an infinite resource. It’s not essentially forfeiting a game (or more) when a spot-starter or long-reliever is needed at the last minute and you don’t have time to grab a good one. It’s the uncertainty and wasted time casting a shadow over the rotation, and the planning and use of said rotation, while his status is being evaluated.
Everybody’s bandying about this “low-risk high-reward” phrase and I think they either don’t really know what that means or they’re trying to convince themselves and rationalize their emotional attachment. The latter in most cases, is my guess.
If he had a strong history of reasonable reliability, and the injuries were only the past year or two, maybe… but he doesn’t. We got stuck with Harden because he had a longer contract. We got stuck with Crosby because he had a longer contract. In both cases, especially Crosby, not having to deal with the distractions has been addition by subtraction. They’re other team’s problems now, and we haven’t missed a thing, have we? We have here an opportunity to learn from the past and not get stuck again.
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
I think you over estimate the impact taking a chance on him would take on the team's resources
Rather grossly at that. And personally I think his odds of coming back next season are actually better than they were this season. Reason being that they were entirely expecting this to happen at some point, practically guaranteeing it. He doesn’t have issues with the repaired side and if they do as good a job as the first time, he should be good to go. I think it’s much better than 5 – 10% but whatever it is, it’s hardly a lottery pick. As for the risk of losing a game, please, this season that happened what, once for him at the last minute while he gave us several great starts we’d have given to someone who would have likely done horribly in his place? You always need starters and you almost never go through a season with only 5 starters anyway.
Ask me about my squirrel.
That's exactly part of the problem...
…it’s something different each time. And the notion that they were expecting this is not exactly reassuring. Sounds more like pre-spin.
As far as him breaking down completely the first time this season, two points… 1) it reinforces what I’ve been saying since they signed him last off-season, that he’s not reliable enough, and 2) we got lucky in that aspect. It could have easily also been long and drawn out, as well. If you can count the number of starts for a pitcher on one hand, then no, it wasn’t a success for the pitcher or the team.
What, exactly, is it that makes people think that he’ll be worth the shot again? Is it because he’s running out of parts to break?
Pitching and defense wins pennants, but offense sells tickets.
Well damn
I had pretty much assumed this would happen but in the back of my mind hoped I’d get a chance to see him pitch again this season.
Duke, just know that everyone here on AN is rooting for you and whatever happens next, you’ll succeed.
AN: Where you will be an A's fan or Dallas Braden will show you the repercussions of your actions.
easy come easy go
this is sad, but i also think we have to consider the small number of outstanding starts he had this year as gravy. it wasn’t reasonable to expect much from him at all.
if the surgery is successful and he wants to try to pitch again, maybe we sign him to an incentive-filled contract for next year similar to what thomas signed in 2006.
yeah, this is sad, but more in humanistic terms than baseball terms. he seems like a great guy and this could totally lead to another bout of depression for him, which would make the whole thing sadder. but in purely baseball terms, there should be no surprise here, and we did get a handful of quality starts out of him this year.
Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.
One positive from this
Fewer times seeing the black alternate jerseys.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Only because Duke and Gio have been good
And I don’t think they wear black on the road.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Exactly.
Other circumstances account for the winning record with the evil black alts.
by whiteshoes40 on May 29, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey, you're the ones keeping the stats.
The data points to the black unis being instrumental in winning.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 29, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't see a lot of teams chomping at the bit to sign him next year,
perhaps he’ll sign for a reasonable amount plus incentives with us again — you never know — looked like the surgery last year did the trick on his left (?) hip, maybe this will get the other one taken care of as well.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Surgery last year on his right hip, sorry.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
This is the one
where I don’t care how it affects the A’s and don’t care who if anybody is to blame. This is the one where Duke the person should be in focus, and it makes me extremely sad to think how disappointing this must feel for him. I wish him strength in yet another uphill battle.
Shouldn't we kinda feel that way about any injury?
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
Sure, but it's not the same as a sprained ankle or a pulled hamstring
This is the latest in a bad series of injuries Duke’s had to deal with, not to mention the depression he went through before.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
Some possible ends to careers of prolific Athletics
Chavy and Duke. Man, that’s some of the better players this organization has seen in (relatively) recent years. Both seem to be stand-up dudes, too. Good luck down the road, Duke, I want only the best things to happen for you.
"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."
I was more concerned about the 2009 signing
Than this year. Last year it seemed that the A’s were counting on Duke to be the veteran ace in a young rotation. Before 2009 I was hoping they’d sign another good vet since I didn’t think Duke’s injury history boded well for unreasonably high expectations.
2010 was different. The young starters were a year more experienced, the A’s signed Sheets (who by all indications had benefitted from the surgery and year off, and just needed to play into shape), plus Duke’s contract was heavily incentive-laden.
by OaklandSi on May 29, 2010 11:58 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
We often complain about how the A's don't
plan for injuries. Given the nature of Duke’s contract and the way they’ve built a rotation ready to continue without him, it looks like the A’s and Duke were both aware that this was a possibility and they planned for it. I still think signing him was a good idea, but I also think it was good that they structured the contract as they did.
I think the same logic would apply for next year, so I’d be happy to see them sign him again on similar terms.
Also, I don’t think Duke should be in the bullpen. He’s made it clear he doesn’t like being a reliever, and he’s veteran enough that he can make that choice. I suspect he wouldn’t sign a contract without an understanding that he’ll only be used as a starter. If he has been given that assurance, whether officially or unofficially, it ought to be respected.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I hope this isn't the end for Duke
Duke is one of my favorite pitchers. Crafty, underrated, and great, he is a true artist on the mound, and the corners of the plate are his canvas. If I ran the A’s, I wouldn’t hesitate to take a chance on him again next season.
A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.
I don't think the medical staff had anything to do with this
"The guy was tasting himself too long to apologize."~Dallas Braden
This is probably the end for Duke
Probably the most anonymous two-time All-Star ever.
That's an interesting challenge.
Suppose we limit it to the 21st century. Hmmm. Mike Williams?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
who?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles, except when working with squirrels, which would never happen because squirrels know better than to trust sock puppets. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on May 29, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Dennis Hopper: A great artist, but a horrible human being
I am angry, I am ill and I'm as ugly as sin/My irritability keeps me alive and kicking/I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit/I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it -- Magazine, "A Song from Under the Floorboards"
by Ray of Lite on May 30, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow I didnt see this coming, just kidding! Duke was a great guy while he was here and I wish him nothing but the best..
I often wonder if the worst move that he made was going from bullpen to starter. I understand that his health issues would have happened and there was nothing he could have dome to prevent them, but I just wonder if he hadnt been a starter maybe the issues would have been delayed. He was an All Star as a reliever, and is seems to me like neing a reliever would be much less stress on the body, but maybe I am off base…
There is no A in OFFENSE!!
Being a reliever was a much greater stress on his mind.
He doesn’t have the right personality to be a reliever. He has spoken on this. Not knowing when he was going to be called on was very stressful for him. Other pitchers don’t mind this at all, but Duke says it really bothered him
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
He's like the pitching version of Chavez
We keep bringing him back only to see him hurt too early and getting more surgeries.
He is my favorite pitcher to watch when healthy and I feel bad for him. Might as well bring him back, like others said, for the league minimum just to see what happens.
Look at it like this:
The Giants pay Barry Zito $17MM per year, over 34 starts, thats $500,000 per start. For seven fucking years.
We paid Duchscherer $2MM this year and he gave us 4 starts, thats only $400,000 per start, and we have washed our hands with him (for now). We were 4-1 in games he played.
Other teams have paid a lot more for a lot less.
-The president of the "Sign Elijah Dukes" fan club.
I wish Justin all the best
Whether he plays next year for the A’s, another MLB team, replaces Eric Byrnes in the Menlo Park beer league, joins the Peace Corps, becomes a monk, or hosts a sports and cooking show on the Bay Area’s new number one station KTRB.
It's the fans that make the game fun. -- Rickey Henderson, July 26, 2009.
nothing to be angry about here
duke pitched well when he could, the medical/training staff is not to blame, and the front office signed him to a reasonable deal.
$2 million is pocket change even for the a’s, i’d have no problem doing it again next year.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
Bummer
These things happen but man, it was awesome to see the Duke’s rise from an obscure relief pitcher to occasionally dominant starter.
Best of luck to the guy.
Duke's been a favorite of mine since he first stepped on the mound.
Terrible news. Not unexpected given how horrible things seem to come down upon him, but damn. I wish him a good recovery and, regardless of whether he ever steps foot on the mound again, I wish him all things awesome.
Add me to the ranks of those who would like to see him signed to a similar deal for next season. Low risk, high reward, given what he can do in those scant moments when he’s healthy. And just to hang onto him in case of a baseball miracle, because damn, he’s the one I’d want the hands of the baseball gods to touch.
Duke’s honestly the one guy other than Suzuki who has gotten me through parts of these recent seasons. :( So this just… damn, this sucks.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."





























