Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Drug Testing, Alistair Overeem & UFC 146's Potential Legacy

Tyson Ross: The East Bay Express

Oh hello, I didn't see you there.  What's that?  You want to learn more about Oakland Athletic rookie, Tyson Ross?  Well, you've come to the right place, your friends from the California Golden Blogs, SBN's Cal site.  When a Cal fan hears the name Tyson Ross, it harkens back to an earlier, simpler time: the late 2000s.  It was a different time when a young Lady Gaga was teaching America to love again and most husbands had yet to experience the soul-crushing despair that is Twilight.  Back then, Cal fans were in ground to tree combat with a bunch of hippies and names like "Dumpster Muffin," "Ayr," and "Kitten Strangling Murdidlierderer" were household curses amongst many.  In this before, before time, there were legends of a man named Tyson Ross.  Standing 40 feet tall with biceps the size of Arizona, people spoke of this Tyson Ross in the same unbelieving whisper of a unicorn or a healthy Justin Duscherererererer. 

While Cal teams have had trouble making the College World Series, they have not lacked for talent.  Whether it was Xavier Nady or Conor Jackson earlier this decade or Brandon Morrow or Tyson Ross much more recently, Cal has had a lot of players make it to the next level.  For college baseball teams, which tend to play on Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, the Ace is key.  They tend to pitch every Friday, hoping to start every series off right.  Have an Ace and you just have to win one of the two weekend games to take the series.  So, the importance of Tyson Ross cannot be overstated.  I join you with CGB's resident Cal baseball expert, carp, to discuss the journey up and down the 80 corridor of Tyson Ross.  He wrote about 95% of this, I just added a few touches.  Please, join us after the jump to learn more about the A's exciting, young rookie.

Star-divide

carp:  Oakland native Tyson Ross has been a fan of the A’s since Tony LaRussa manned the top step for your Oakland A’s.  For those scoring at home, I believe that makes Ross an A’s fan since 1993 or so, which could otherwise be known as the Joe Slusarski/Ruben Sierra-Village Idiot era.

Ross has the chance to continue the city of Oakland’s rich tradition of producing a plethora of major league baseball stars, including Frank Robinson (McCylmonds), Vada Pinson (McCylmonds), Joe Morgan (Castlemont), Willie Stargell (Encinal), Dave Stewart (St. Elizabeth’s), Rickey Henderson (Oakland Tech), Jimmy Rollins (Encinal), Dontrelle Willis (Encinal) to name just a few.   Born in Berkeley, Ross went to Northern Lights Elementary (Redwood Rd)in the Oakland Hills, followed by Zion Lutheran (Park Blvd), and then Bishop O’Dowd High.  O’Dowd’s a solid high school program that’s ex-Cal second baseman Jeff Kobernes (drafted in the 2nd round by the Nats) and most notably Kevin Maas, whose rapid success in Yankee Stadium led to "Maas-tops," where a dozen young ladies seated in the RF bleachers would stand up and remove their tops when Maas circled the bases following a homer.

After this mental image has sunk and registers as one of the greatest experiences ever, let’s return to Ross, who as a teen literally played down the street from the A’s at the corner of 66th and East 14th

"It's so close, you could hear the A's crowd and the announcer's voice," said Ross' father, Dr. Willie Ross, a pediatrician.  "He only wanted to play for one team his whole life.  Can you believe that? Incredible."

 

Bishop O'Dowd

While at Bishop O’Dowd, the 6’6" Ross was the most dominant pitcher that Coach Joel Kauffman had ever coached:

"Tyson was the best pitcher that I have ever coached and was the most humble team player to boot."

 

tysonandcoach

Ross throws a ‘pen.

Ross would lead Kauffman’s Dragons to the 2005 Division III State Championship, before starting his collegiate career down the road at Cal.  Ross was named the 2005 North Coast Section Player of the Year.

wcc05

I believe Ross is in the front row at the far right.

UC Berkeley

Ross’ freshman season featured 85 K’s in 84.2 innings pitched en route to All-Pac 10 Honorable Mention and Freshman of the Year awards.  In the summer of 2006, Ross played summer ball for the Anchorage Bucs:

Apparently, you can buy this card off of E-bay.

Ross had a fantastic sophomore campaign, which featured 120 K’s in 115 IP with a 2.49 ERA.  Ross earned first team All-Pac 10 honors, as well as a Rawlings Gold Glove for his defensive prowess while on the bump.  Perhaps his greatest game came on March 22, 2007, when he fanned 16 (16!) in a game against Oral Roberts:

BERKELEY, CALIF. - Despite a phenomenal pitching performance from sophomore right-hander Tyson Ross, in which he had a career-high 16 strikeouts and yielded just three hits in 7.0 innings, the Cal baseball team dropped a 2-1 decision to Oral Roberts Thursday at Evans Diamond. The Golden Bears lost their eighth one-run game of the year to fall to 12-13. The Golden Eagles improved to 11-9.

Here is his line from that day:

California             IP  H  R ER BB SO AB BF
-----------------------------------------------
Ross, Tyson......... 7.0 3 2 2 1 16 25 27

 

In the summer of 2007, Ross was sensational for Team USA, finishing 4-1 with a 0.82 ERA, and striking out 39 batters with only seven walks in 43.2 innings.

I’d love to never see another camo-uni ever again.

Here is a video from that sophmore year of Ross:

Despite a disappointing junior year where Ross was plagued by a strained lat muscle, he left Cal following his junior season with three flavors of fastball (cutter to throw away from righties, two-seamer to throw down and into righties, and a 4-seam by-you special), a circle change-up, a 11-5 breaking hook, and a filthy slider.  A’s scouts frequently watched Ross, who was compared to Fergie Jenkins, including GM Billy Beane on more than one occasion.  The A’s were thrilled that Ross fell to the 2nd round, where he was selected with the 58th overall pick and is believed to have received a signing bonus of nearly $700k.

He relied heavily on his slider in college, and notes that his ascent in the A’s organization is due to his ability to utilize his fastball that touches 97 mph:

"In college I was just flipping sliders in there a lot," he said. "But it's a long season and if you're going to succeed, you've got to throw fastballs."

Professional Baseball

Ross spent 2008 in Kane County (A), followed by splitting the 2009 campaign between Stockton (High A) and Midland (AA).  In the minors he averaged > 2:1 K:BB and a WHIP of 1.23 over 155 IP.

The other night, Tyson Ross made his major league debut in the Coliseum, striking out 2 in 2.1 IP with the game on the line.:

Ross made his big-league debut by relieving Duchscherer with two outs in the sixth and striking out Rob Johnson to end the inning. It was 5-4, Mariners, at that point, but Suzuki doubled home Mark Ellis - who won Tuesday's game with a 10th-inning single - with the tying run in the seventh.

Ross retired seven of nine batters, including Ken Griffey Jr. on a strikeout. With two outs and a runner aboard in the eighth, Kouzmanoff robbed Franklin Gutierrez with a diving stop at third, and Daric Barton made a long stretch at first, ending the rally.

"Nothing more I can ask for right now," Ross said. "This is something I looked forward to my whole life. Now that it's here, I'm going to soak it all in."

Oakland Athletics' Tyson Ross works against the Seattle M... Ben  Margot / AP

Depending on who you talk to, Ross projects to be either a front-of-the-rotation starter or a reliever.  The former, if you believe his odd delivery will continue to keep him injury free, the latter if you buy into poor mechanics=eventual major injury.  Tyson Ross sounds like a nice, humble baseball player.  For example, he is working on completing his college degree:

He plans to finish Cal by taking classes in the offseason. During his first season in the minors, he took a music course online and, after bus trips, would stay up an extra hour or two taking tests. He passed the course and applied the credits toward his Cal degree.

A former team-mate from high school noted this about Ross:

"Tyson has always been one of the nicest, most polite baseball players. When I played baseball at O’Dowd, there were so many good players that everyone wanted to do the little things to stand out to the coaches as real ballplayers. This meant assuming the ‘baseball player persona.’ That included chewing tobacco, being loud and obnoxious and sucking up to the coaches.

"Tyson never had to do any of that because he was better than everybody else. He didn’t have to try to stand out because he was a 6-5 phenom. For him baseball came naturally and he didn’t need the baseball persona. In fact, I always felt he made strides to stay normal despite being on the national team, despite being voted ‘most likely to be famous’ in the yearbook his senior year."

From that Press Democrat interview, here is what he thinks when he is on the mound:

"Just the pitch. Just this one pitch. Clear my head. Look into (Kurt) Suzuki or whoever’s catching. See the fingers. If it’s a fastball away, all I’m thinking is fastball away. I’m not thinking, ‘Blow it by him.’ I’m not thinking, ‘Please don’t hit it.’ I’m just thinking fastball away."

His Motion

The first thing that pops into most people's minds when they think of Tyson Ross is the motion.  It's definitely............unique.

SBNation blog, Driveline Mechanics, had a whole post on it.  Here is a key excerpt:

People are worried about his follow-through (which is weird - he is mainly upright). However, that's not the big problem - he has a major Inverted W in his delivery. It's something I haven't seen since Mark Prior. It's very bad.

Here's the video:

And here's a still of the Inverted W:

For comparison, here's Mark Prior:

Ugh. This will cause major shoulder problems due to impingement syndrome, and to top it off, it causes a major timing flaw at footstrike. Tyson's arm is hanging down at footstrike and is very late - he will stress his Ulnar Collateral Ligament extremely hard as he experiences violent external rotation due to forearm bounce.

You'll notice not a huge leg kick and a very stiff upper body.  Here is a photo I took at a game in 2007:

96847410_medium

You can see the upright nature of his motion there.  Here is video of him pitching in his major league debut on Wednesday, April 7, 2010.  It appears that they've extended his leg kick more and lengthened his stride.  This seems to make the motion more compact and tighter as compared to the lankier motion we saw in college.  I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about the motion and its relationship to injuries, so I cannot speak as to whether it is less likely to cause injury.  He still retains much of the shoulder flinging action that we saw in college, so it is not a total change.  Hopefully, the changes will help him avoid injury as expressed by the gentlemen at Driveline Mechanics.

However he turns out, we’ll all be rooting for the East Bay Express, who got his first major league save today!  Many thanks to Nico and gigglingone for their help with this post.  We look forward to seeing you over at CGB.  GO As AND GO BEARS!

Comment 88 comments  |  11 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Thanks to TnH, and the folks at AN for this opportunity. GO A’S!

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Apr 11, 2010 7:00 PM PDT reply actions  

This is a terrific profile piece

Thanks for putting it together. Incidentally, I lurked a bit at CGB at the end of the hoops season and into the Tournament, and I think you guys do a good job over there — good FP posters, good commenting community (well, aside from one guy who RRS says wandered over here from there on our Game 1 open thread and got banned in about 45 minutes).

Anyway, keep up the great work.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Apr 11, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed -- this is a wonderful piece.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 11, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

His windup seems a little better in his MLB debut than in the inverted W .gif

but I still wouldn’t be surprised to see serious arm injuries in his future. And ditto on the camouflage uniforms. Terrible.

If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.

by NateHST on Apr 11, 2010 7:03 PM PDT reply actions  

Without a video that you can slow down and look at more closely, it's hard to tell if the inverted W is gone.

The lack of a stride/utilizing his legs is something that’s just costing him velocity (yes, I know he can touch 94. He should be touching 98) and it’s also going to keep him from being a front of the rotation, 200+ inning pitcher. You’ve got to use your lower body, and he just doesn’t.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 11, 2010 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

From just watching the videos of him this year, I really don’t think the inverted W is gone at all. It does seem like his stride is just a little bit longer, but it’s still a very violent, untraditional motion.

If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.

by NateHST on Apr 11, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

untraditional motions are fine, when they are mechanically sound (ie Lincecum)

but the inverted W is a major, major sign of bad things to come.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 11, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is borderline consenant-discrimination

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 11, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it needs to be changed

or at least tamed a little bit. He’s going to put way too much stress on his shoulder and elbow to pitch for a career. If he relies on his slider, changing his motion shouldn’t affect it or his velocity for that matter. It could stay the same or possibly help both (and his health).

by aseiwert on Apr 11, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not as bad an inverted P though

That’s crazy bad on the arms, shoulders, back, neck, legs…

Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."

by DMOAS on Apr 11, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or the inverted i

where the head pops off.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 11, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

The inverted YMCA has ruined many a career.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Apr 11, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is there any actual data on this inverted W crap?

Or are we saying Kerry Wood (N = 1) is indicative of things to come for all pitchers with an inverted W?

by smokelanda on Apr 12, 2010 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Notice how Ryan's elbows aren't actually above the plane of his shoulder?

The problem with the inverted W is that it creates timing issues, ie the front foot plants before the arm is up into throwing position, which ends up creating more unnatural force on the elbow and shoulder than the normal pitching motion (which is ALREADY unnatural force on the elbow and shoulder) creates.

Here’s a fun read: Death To The Inverted W

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 12, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who is Chris O'Leary?

Why should I care what he says?

Shawn Spencer: Ahoy there! Um, yes. Right! My name is Shawn Spencer! This is my first mate Hummingbird Saltalamacchia!
Burton Guster: Hello!
Shawn Spencer: We were turned around-- discombobulated! We... we just now realized we're in restricted waters.
Burton Guster: Just now! And we both have hepatitis!

by PaulThomas on Apr 12, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I never told you to care about what he says, PT.

You’re more than welcome to come to your own conclusion about pitching mechanics.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 12, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Because Chris O’Leary cares about what you say.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Apr 12, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, I've heard these theories before

(although I don’t recall learning the difference between a horizontal W and an inverted W, that was new). But I just wonder, is this one of those things that people observe with their eyes and conclude MUST be bad, or is it actually bad, i.e., do pitchers making the M actually end up spending more days on the DL than those who do not? My own theory is that pitching is very bad for you arm, regardless of mechanics, and there is so much variation in both mechanics and individual physiology that it makes subjective claims about particular arm formations highly suspect until proven otherwise (e.g., they cite future HOFer John Smoltz as an example of how NOT to have a long career? True, he had shoulder problems, but that’s not surprising when you pitch in the bigs for 20+ years and accumulate nearly 3,500 innings. Seems fairly dubious to claim his 20 year career was cut short because of what appears to be poor mechanics).

by smokelanda on Apr 12, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Um, he also had Tommy John surgery and missed an entire year of his career

To me that, as well as a boatload of DL trips, shoulder issues, etc… that would constitute “arm problems” that pretty well jive with the bad mechanics theories, don’t ya think?

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 12, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Uhh....
UPDATE: I want my readers to understand what I am putting forth here. I’m not a biomechanics expert, nor am I projecting my own view of the nature of the Inverted W. I don’t know what effect, if any, the inverted W has on a pitcher’s arm. This article is a review of his literature, and is presented to show the holes in his claims. I’m not here to make counterclaims, but rather to bring light to the fact that O’Leary’s argumentation and research is very poor. Do some additional research, and make an educated decision if you are looking to make mechanical changes.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 13, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

and reading more, this Blewett guy doesn't seem interested in actually talking about it

and he’s fucking had Tommy John surgery. That’s so ironically awesome I can’t explain it.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 13, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm going to be an asshole and reply to myself a third time here.

I clicked around that site for awhile. I ended up stumbling across a youtube video of what I assume is Blewett throwing… and then found another one that’s called “Dan Blewett Throwing” so if my assumption is correct and this is actually Mr Blewett in the two videos, well… he does the exact same thing that O’Leary claims happens when pitchers have the inverted W or L or whatever.

His pitching arm is not into the vertical/cocked position when he completes his stride. This is the same timing issue that the inverted W causes, leading to more stress on the elbow and shoulder. And the guy had TJ surgery.

That’s a coincidence.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 13, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Ironically awesome"

This world is getting filled with people who say less despite talking more.

To say that it was “ironic” that I had arm surgery is false: there is no irony where there is no connection; since there is NO evidence the inverted W or MY inverted W causes injuries, there is no irony to the fact that I was injured.

And to say that it was “awesome” shows really low character on your part. These mechanics that you probably spend way too much time analyzing are displayed by PEOPLE. For someone who seems to really care about mechanics and their effects on injury rates, you don’t seem very sympathetic to the injured, especially someone like myself who has done everything possible to prevent my own, and injury in others.

People take this whole pitching mechanics thing way too personally; i don’t attack anyone-i just follow the facts-which is why I critiqued O’Leary, but didn’t present any counterargument. Right now I think I’m just smart enough to know that I don’t know. He could be right, but for now there’s no data.

Add this word to your vocabulary: shadenfreude

Visit my site at http://danblewett.com

by dblewett on Apr 14, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well hello there. Pleasure to meet you, thanks for signing up just to reply to me.

To clarify — it wasn’t awesome that you had surgery. Being injured sucks and that’s certainly not something I’d wish on someone. Not that it matters much, but my high level sports career was also ended by injury. I sorta know where you’re comin from, so if you took it as my poking fun at your injury then I do apologize for the misunderstanding there.

However, If you can’t see the irony in the fact that you displayed the very symptom O’Leary mentions (PAS arm not in the vertical, cocked position at footplant) — whether or not it’s from an inverted W, which you didn’t seem to have — and then experienced the very arm problem (TJ Surgery) that he said is helped along by the extra stress created by that timing issue.

Basically it’s boiled down to shouting out “NO IT ISN’T” when told what the issue may be. That’s not going to solve anything.

“Hey, dude, doing THIS may be really bad for your arm. Pitching is already bad for your arm anyway, and this may make it worse.”

OMG NO IT WON’T

“Um, you do it and you had TJ surgery.”

TOTAL COINCIDENCE. NO PROOF OR EVIDENCE.

okay.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 14, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please

No one is arguing that the inverted W is good for your arm. All people who are doubtful of the inverted W as a bad sign is how bad it is.

And to say that one example of TJS proves how bad the inverted W is stupid. It could very well be a coincidence and you know it. How many people in MLB get TJS throughout their career? How many had inverted Ws? I’m guessing the ratio ain’t that big.

Pitching is not conducive to your health. Hence, the inverted W is not conducive to your health. But we are far from the point where we understand the intricacies of pitching mechanics. Talking about it with any amount of certainty is silly.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Apr 14, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

If talking about it with any amount of certainty is silly

then so is trying to discredit it with any amount of certainty.

Then again we’re all a bunch of silly geese here, aren’t we?

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 15, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not exactly a counter

In the sense that there’s no convincing argument against the theory. Obviously this “inverted W” idea is just an attempt at pointing out a correlation, but I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss it as a problem. It may not be the cause of any injuries but merely a tell-tale symptom of an underlying issue. Who knows?
One thing’s for sure though; I can’t think of any successful/durable pitcher with the mechanics of Tyson Ross. Though I’m personally more worried with his lack of incorporating his lower body- that upright “follow-through” looks brutal.

by Sacred#24 on Apr 13, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's no "theory" in the first place

The entire “theory” is one guy cherrypicking a handful of injury-prone pitchers (and some who aren’t even injury-prone at all!) and then propounding some notional problem with their mechanics— a problem which actual biomechanics specialists, like the below-mentioned Graham, find to be hogwash.

Shawn Spencer: Ahoy there! Um, yes. Right! My name is Shawn Spencer! This is my first mate Hummingbird Saltalamacchia!
Burton Guster: Hello!
Shawn Spencer: We were turned around-- discombobulated! We... we just now realized we're in restricted waters.
Burton Guster: Just now! And we both have hepatitis!

by PaulThomas on Apr 13, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, to recap

one guy on a blog is wrong because another guy on a different blog disagrees.

Cool story, bro.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 13, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree about your last part there. The biggest problem to me (a complete laymen when it comes to pitching mechanics) is that his upper body and lower body don’t seem to work together in unison. If you look at the video Driveline mechanics has, you’ll see that his body sort of stops going forward just as his arm whips forward. So, from my amateur perspective, that puts additional strain on the arm, because there isn’t as much momentum coming from the body.

Hopefully, the As changes have alleviated that some, but it still seems as if he puts a lot of pressure on his upper body in making the pitch.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Apr 13, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder if the lower body stiffness

would be better for the throwing motion.

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury

by Future Ed on Apr 14, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

eye black!

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury

by Future Ed on Apr 12, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a horrible shot

didn’t they have photo editors in the 70s???

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury

by Future Ed on Apr 12, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nothing gets by you!

I dunno where it came from, I’m just carrying on what the people who actually know shit about pitching mechanics say.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 12, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

nice

You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}

by micdog2001 on Apr 12, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

rec'd

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Apr 12, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

TWSS
You’ve got to use your lower body

A B -3X = Swedish girls like chocolate @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 11, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll remember that.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do

It’s pretty damn good advice.

Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."

by DMOAS on Apr 14, 2010 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm liking the title of this post.

The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09

by pam5981 on Apr 11, 2010 7:45 PM PDT reply actions  

It felt a little over-the-top at first…but why not? O’Dowd to Cal to the A’s in 5 years with 97 mph heat? Awesome.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Apr 11, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks Twist & carp

This is great insight!!

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Apr 11, 2010 8:09 PM PDT reply actions  

good stuff!

thanks for putting this together. its always good to see the local kid play for the local team

by Wreckonized on Apr 11, 2010 8:13 PM PDT reply actions  

The kid is good!!!

Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!

by Athletic on Apr 11, 2010 8:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Do these A's remind anyone else of the 2002 Angels a little bit?

Just in how they play the game, and the young power arms in the pen. Of course minus some power.

Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!

by Athletic on Apr 11, 2010 8:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Salmon, Glaus, Erstad...No, not seeing it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 11, 2010 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

OO I forgot about Glaus

Bad pick Peyton "Regular Season" Manning!!!

by Athletic on Apr 11, 2010 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Charming profile!

His motion does seem a little, shall we say, abrupt. But, gee folks, what’s not to like about this kid? Have there been no exceptions to the dreaded “Inverted W” catastrophe? As William Goldman once observed about Hollywood, “Nobody knows anything.”

There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. - Mark Twain

by ptbarnum on Apr 11, 2010 8:21 PM PDT reply actions  

not really, no. It's more of a "when" and not an "if" with that.

I mean, try to do it yourself. It’s nearly impossible to just lift both your elbows ABOVE your shoulders at the same time like that.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 11, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

If it is true that it is a “when” and not “if,” then I am happy they brought him up. Let him blow out his arm at the major league level, not the minor league level. At least then he can tell his grandkids that he got his shot and did his best and not that he faltered a few levels below.

Perhaps it is sorta macabre to say that, but hey wouldn’t you rather blow out your arm at the major league level and not the minor league level?

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Apr 11, 2010 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Most people seem to be thinking this was the A's line of thought in calling him up so early

And honestly, I can see it from a business point of view. However, this is one of those times when I really hope the A’s weren’t going for the best business move. If you, for all intents and purposes, know a pitcher is likely to seriously injure themselves (and the evidence against a motion with an inverted-W is very significant), it is your obligation to change that pitching motion, not to sap every inning you can out of them.

If the A’s approached Ross about changing the motion and he simply refused, I would be okay with that. On the other hand, if the A’s approached him and he was open to the idea, but the early results were ugly, and the A’s scrapped the idea…well I have a problem with that. These aren’t robots, these are people.

If you think Billy Beane is a bad GM, I hate you and find you stupid.

by NateHST on Apr 11, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps his body’s just conditioned to pitch like that and, while such a motion would be awkward for anyone else, his body knows no different. If he gets injured, the mechanics gurus will say, “See…I told you so.”

Me? I think a guy with great mechanics or poor mechanics could get hurt. I mean, we are talking about the A’s. We’ve had plenty of high draft picks who haven’t made it this far, and I think Ross’ future is bright.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Apr 11, 2010 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, it *is* conditioned for it at this point

But it’s still most likely damaging the joints despite it.

Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."

by DMOAS on Apr 11, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is a good point

Tons of guys with great mechanics get hurt. Though Lincecum’s delivery is good mechanics for him because he’s so flexible, if a lot of other guys tried to do his delivery they’d pull their hamstrings every game. Different things work for different people. Let’s hope Tyson can stay healthy.

"Matthews, like so many before, did not expect the Yeti. No one ever expects the Yeti." ~ Ziller

by CaliforniaJag on Apr 11, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, yeah -- he's conditioned to pitch like that.

He was tall and threw hard in high school and his coaches let him do what worked because he was dominant.

The problem is you can’t really “condition” ligaments, and the problem with pitchers who have this mechanical issue is exactly that. At some point, the problems that are created are going to cause an injury.

I wish somebody could get good footage of him pitching again now and see if his timing issues have been taken care of.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 11, 2010 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

John Smoltz.

Yes, he’s had shoulder problems, but any pitcher would kill to have a career like Smoltz’s.

CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

by BearStage on Apr 12, 2010 1:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

As a huge Cal and A’s fan (and someone who got tagged with an L freshman year against O’Dowd), I couldn’t be rooting any harder for Tyson! Go A’s!

by drub12 on Apr 11, 2010 8:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Very good stuff, guys.

An awesome read.

Sundown dazzling day, gold through my eyes.
But my eyes, turned within, only see
starless and bible black.

by danmerqury on Apr 11, 2010 10:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Hm
Nobody apart from crazy internet people cares about the inverted w
by Graham on Mar 24, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up actions 0 recs
 
Or as it’s known in real-person land, ‘M’
by Graham on Mar 24, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up actions 1 recs

Graham of LL is extremely knowledgeable, so if he acts dismissive toward something, I’m inclined to share his viewpoint unless I have a particular reason to believe otherwise.

Shawn Spencer: Ahoy there! Um, yes. Right! My name is Shawn Spencer! This is my first mate Hummingbird Saltalamacchia!
Burton Guster: Hello!
Shawn Spencer: We were turned around-- discombobulated! We... we just now realized we're in restricted waters.
Burton Guster: Just now! And we both have hepatitis!

by PaulThomas on Apr 12, 2010 12:08 AM PDT reply actions  

hmm
I’m inclined to share his viewpoint unless I have a particular reason to believe otherwise.

So I’m assuming that “basically everybody who’s ever done it has gotten hurt” isn’t a good enough reason for you?

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 12, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

FYI the ross clothing store chain also began in the bay area

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Apr 12, 2010 12:17 AM PDT reply actions  

I love it

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury

by Future Ed on Apr 12, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

C'Ross Dress For Less!!!

Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."

by DMOAS on Apr 14, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure how much I believe pitching mechanics gurus

There really needs to be multiple full-blown studies on pitching motions. All in all, a good read and here’s hoping this season is the beginning of a bright career.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Apr 12, 2010 12:33 AM PDT reply actions  

I think part of the problem with studying pitching motions

is that every version of the standard baseball pitching motion is bad for your arm — a study would simply be comparing different degrees and kinds of damaging motions, not comparing damaging motions to safe ones.

I’m no kind of expert on biomechanics or kinesiology, but I’ve read and seen explanations from qualified people about why the standard pitching motion is terrible for the human body, and haven’t ever read or seen a specific response that refuted it from a biomechanical perspective.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Apr 12, 2010 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Great stuff TnH and carp

His windup is weird (even my GF, who was at the game with me yesterday, remarked that he looks funny pitching, and she is far from a student of the game).

But, given that pitching is so unnatural anyway, it seems like we might be splitting hairs here. Perhaps his risk of injury is high, but only mildly more elevated than that of a normal pitcher.

"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey

Everything is better with bacon.

by cuppingmaster on Apr 12, 2010 7:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Go Bears!

I’m glad that another Cal alum has been given a shot in the majors. Hopefully he will do better than Xavier Nady and Brandon Morrow (still haven’t forgiven the Mariners for ruining him by trying the Joba experiment).

by Murray, Present on Apr 12, 2010 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

I have to wonder how well we really know pitching mechanics, too.

All I remember hearing about Mark Prior when he came up was how awesome his mechanics were. Now, he’s the fatal victim of the inverted W, which to hear some tell it, should be something any idiot off the street can see.

There’s obviously enormous value in understanding how pitcher mechanics affect injury, but I also strongly suspect that there are hundreds of exceptions that prove the rule.

"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico

by jeepers on Apr 12, 2010 11:15 AM PDT reply actions  

The way I understand it, Prior's mechanics were called awesome and perfect etc by Tom House

Tom House is the guy who… taught Mark Prior his mechanics…

So there’s that.

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 12, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

So you're saying that

“House’s who live with glass throwers…”

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Apr 12, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

HEY-O

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev

by mikev on Apr 12, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

“He’ll be here all week, folks! Put your hands together one last time for the folk comedy stylings of Nico!”

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Apr 12, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Tom House was a great...

home run catcher

"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury

by Future Ed on Apr 12, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

rec'd

good to know he’s a good guy and not another a$$hole athlete.

by stm72 on Apr 12, 2010 11:35 AM PDT reply actions  

He should be called The Bird. It looks like he is flapping his wings when he pitches.

All aboard the Dasarte Yarnway Battering Ram!

by rollonubears on Apr 12, 2010 10:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Here's the thing about pitching injury

It’s much more than just mechanics. Conditioning, usage, pitch selection, recovery time, genetics, and durability all play a role in it. While examining pitchers who have had long, relatively healthy careers and advocating their mechanics is a nice exercise, it’s not really how someone proves/disproves that the Inverted W (or L or V or whatnot) causes injuries.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

by baetown415 on Apr 12, 2010 11:30 PM PDT reply actions  

propensity for

mechanics related injury aside, I’m very impressed with the way this guy has thrown and in the situations he’s been thrust into as a rookie. Yes, it’s evident that he doesn’t always know exactly where that darting fastball is going to go, but he seems to have that “effectively wild” thing going on. He can, it seems, hammer the bottom half of the zone when he needs to and stay away from the middle of the plate for the most part. His fastballs have tremendous movement – in his 1st two appearances his 2 seamer was anywhere from 88mph (only noticed him dropping into the 80’s a few times in his 2nd inning of work in his 2nd game) to 93mph with lively late tailing action. His 4 seamer which he has been able to get hitters to chase up and out of the zone is anywhere from 92-95mph with a cutting action and is explosive considering his somewhat deceptive motion. In the short term, I think he’ll be a fine reliever. His breaking pitches (all I’ve seen is a little slider that he’s thrown maybe 3 or 4 times) have only been of the “show me” variety and seem underdeveloped comparatively. From what I’ve seen so far in the majors from him (very limited) it’s hard to tell whether he can throw the slider effectively for a strike. He got a couple of swinging strikes on it, though, so it’s not entirely ineffective. Overall, I’m pretty excited about what he can bring to the table as a cog in this bullpen. He’s a good power arm, and an imposing figure on the mound. He’s got great presence, and doesn’t seem to be easily rattled. I’d love to see him mix in a little more off speed stuff, but I think (and hope) T-Ross is going to stick in this pen, at least for this season.

by oakballnack on Apr 13, 2010 7:22 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm not a mechanics expert...

…but I tried mimicking the position Ross’s arms are in, and it hurts! I can’t imagine that putting your arms in this position and then hurling an object at 90+ m.p.h. is something that any human can do without risking injury, especially when this motion is being repeated thousands of times over the course of each season.

"Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me." -Dusty Baker on OBP

by vtcub on Apr 14, 2010 9:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Okay...

Now try touching the back of your head through your legs. How does that feel?

Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."

by DMOAS on Apr 14, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cool beans!

I played X-man in HS ball! He was an unbelievable hitter, everytime he came up you knew he was going pro, he was a man amogst boys then.

by BBANGUS on Apr 14, 2010 11:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Oakland Athletics.

Community Guidelines ANcillary Terms

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
A's relocation option from a legal expert on the issue
Oakland_athletics_team_logo_photofile_small
Prospects 1Q Report

Recent FanPosts

100_1536_small
My new smarts on the Fanpost, and Mr. Offseason is born, and getting to know me
Small
GOG 2012 #18: The Twins have a shiny new park, and not much else
Small
Gotta Be Their Pitching
Hardly-boys_small
Minor League notes on Major League Day Off
Small
Cespedes Upate?
Small
The SF Warriors, the LA Raiders and the Oakland A's
Photo__11__small
COG #17 - Yankees vs. Athletics or Spank me! Spank me!
100_1536_small
What to do? What to do?
Small
Fans Should Buy the A's
Reg3_small
Tom Milone's Nickname

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Front Page Writers

Maya_papi_small Tyler Bleszinski

08-_the_author_small 67MARQUEZ

Baseball_small baseballgirl

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small Nico

Img_1877_small Billy Frijoles

Img_0653_small dwishinsky

Sb_nation1_small ahhall

Front Page Writers

Smiley_face_small gigglingone

Venasfans_small OaklandSi

60-minutes-clock_small cuppingmaster

Patpicturebucky2_small YonYonson

Img_3830_small David Fung

Moderators

Photofunia-5c770b_small coffee roaster

Denver_small Colorado Fan

Ls_logo100_small LoneStranger

Thumbs_up_small LongTimeFan

Marty_profile_in_green_small mrod

Babycomputergeek_small paris7

Img_0115_small Tutu-late