Desperate times for the city of Oakland and sports
This is an interesting time for Oakland. For decades, the city has been home to three Tier 1 professional teams: the Warriors, the A's, and the Raiders. Recently, there was some noise about the Oakland possibly suing the A's of an alleged move out of the city (see: Oakland A's Stadium News: MLB to reject Oakland for San Jose).
Now, as everyone knows, the W's are for sale (ding, dong, the witch will be dead, at last), but it seems that all the interested ownership parties are interested in moving out also (see: Voros: Record price for Warriors could send team to S.F.).
To top it off, the Oakland-Alameda Country board is starting exploratory talks with the Raiders on a new stadium (see: Could a new football stadium be in Oakland's future?). This is because the Raiders Coliseum lease expires in 2013 and we know how much Al Davis loves Oakland! :X
In a worst case scenario, all three teams could bolt out by 2020 (Warrios lease is through 2027 but they have a provision is buyout the lease for $60 million). This has given pro-Oakland city backers and City Hall attorney sharks a fit (see: Golden State Warriors to SF just media chatter).
I think we're going to see more and more fervent Oakland support in the coming years (if not months or days) from residents, sympathizers, and Oakland attorneys as this scenario becomes more and more of a reality. For Oakland city A's fan, i understand how this could cause you to be more vocal, but please don't take this city vendetta out on us that may support other cities as well.
P.S. - For the record, I am an A's, W's, and Niners fan (yea WTF huh?)
75 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I highly doubt the Warriors move.
At least that’s what I’ll keep on saying. No reason to mess with a good thing. Warriors are the 5th largest NBA market, plus they still have + attendance (even though the FO doesn’t deserve ANY fan support).
I think it is just media chatter. Plus the Warriors are inked into Oracle until 2016-17, something like that.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I highly doubt the Warriors move.
No reason to mess with a good thing. Warriors are the 5th largest NBA market
right, and why would they risk that by moving from the 5th largest NBA market to the 5th largest NBA market?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Mar 30, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Because dude....
it’s flipping obvious. They’ll be moving to the 5th LARGEST NBA market.
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer
call me crazy,
but I don’t see them moving from the 5th biggest NBA market, even if it is to the 5th biggest NBA market. I mean, unless they argued that it would be a bigger market for the NBA.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 31, 2010 5:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, change just for the sake of change?
Keep those dirty SF hands off the Warriors.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Actually, it makes sense.
I am an A’s, W’s, and Niners fan
For fans of a certain age, the Raiders weren’t around when we were in our formative years. The only football franchise was the 49ers (it didn’t hurt that they were awesome for an extended stretch) and the only basketball team was the Warriors. So, most became fans of those two teams. Plus, if you were an East Bay person, you ended up liking the A’s. A lot of my friends (late 20’s, early 30’s) are the same way.
I bleed green and gold!!! (my doctor is worried)
Count me in that group, as well.
I love the A’s, and I kinda follow the Warriors. I rooted for the Niners by default.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 30, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I root for the niners
mainly cause I hate the raiders for what they did to the coliseum
by Sir Realist on Mar 30, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ding.
Al Davis and his monstrosity out in center field can eat it.
I feel for Raiders fans, but I wish Al Davis no success.
we in the losin baseball binness. and cousin, binness is a boomin.
by walk off bunt on Mar 31, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm in a similar boat.
I’ve always rooted for the A’s and I revile all things San Francisco so that ruled out the Niners as a kid (and the Raiders weren’t around), so I rooted for the Patriots since my entire extended family were Bostonians. Then the Raiders came back and destroyed the Coliseum… so I now loathe them equally with SF teams. I’d root for the Warriors if I really cared all that much about basketball.
You root for the Pats and call yourself a Bay Area sports fan?
Those two things don’t mix!
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
How so?
The Patriots sucked balls when I started rooting for them. And like I said I great up loathing SF and all things SF. So there was no one else to root for. And the Raiders destroying the Coliseum cemented my hatred for them when they showed up. Hell the “Tuck Rule” game was one of the best moments in my sports viewing life. Watching the Raiders suffer brings me almost as much pleasure as watching the A’s, Patriots, Sharks, and I suppose the Warriors, doing well.
Should I hate the A's because they screwed up the Coliseum for the Raiders?
Root for the Giants? Not even if they're playing al-Qaeda!
Glad I'm not alone...
I get flak from other old time A’s fan for it all the time…
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
by ST on Mar 30, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm discouraged to learn that I'm an old time A's fan.
Where’s my walker and my hearing aid?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 31, 2010 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, stop running your sprinklers for a minute and I'll send Margie over to get them.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 31, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Leave the sprinklers on and send Margie in a white tank top.
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev
I'm thinking I don't want to see Margie in the tank top
I’m just not a fan of over-sized man boobs bouncing around. The forest on the chest and, well, just about everywhere else is kind of sick too.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
Likewise
I was born a few months before Al bolted for LA, so the Raiders were never really in my consciousness as a kid. I figured that being a Raiders fan in the bay area in the 80’s-early 90’s would be like being a Colts or Lions fan, but with the added disadvantage of cheering along an LA-based team. Thought it was cool when the team came back to Oakland, until I saw what became of the Coliseum.
formerly bruinhoo
I am in on this too
The only choice we had as kids was between the Giants and A’s… and that was easy.
started out as raider fan.... bill king, cliff branch, plunket, jack tatum,
marc wilson (but was wilson in LA?), etc. then they moved to LA and still followed but to lesser and lesser degrees……always followed Niners but finally came over completely as IMO the Raider mystique got too tacky and tiresome.
alaska A residing in northern Idaho.
A's, Warriors, Niners for me also
I’ve lived every where in the Bay so I can root for who I want but just not the Giants, can’t stand them.
I am the same as you guys....A's Warriors, Niners..
with a twist, 3 years ago I chose to move to Colorado after 33 years in CA, and the bay area……..it is so sad to see the A’s in the state they are in, not the team, but the franchise…….. I know its stadium driven….. its so nice going to Coors field….
I hope the A’s move actually, tired of the bay area BS, no Niners stadium, no A’s………most don’t care, so F em…..leave….
by Colorado Booze Hounds on Mar 30, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
conspiracies alive and well
in corporate america. if you haven’t seen this, here’s a very telling article by columnist monte poole, showing obvious collusion between frat buddies selig & wolff— where wolff plays a convincing role as selig’s sock puppet.
that article
really about sez it all. I know people will go “But Oakland has failed and the city deserves to lose the team!” but when someone doesn’t want to be somewhere and will do anything to get away it is hard sometimes to lend any credence to what often amount to halfhearted attempts to make a convincing Oakland product out of the A’s franchise.
For me, it’s the radio station, and all the issues with it, that really give the lie to what Wolff and ownership are really up to where the rubber hits the road. When you’re trying to make a top-flight product out of a regional thing like a sports team, where so much of the ability of the region to engage with the thing depends on its ability to see/hear the team on a daily and reliable basis, there’s just no way you put it on a station that the signal goes to crap (if it’s audible to begin with at all) just as the games begin. I’m a professional proofreader and that’s an error that gets caught before the book gets published, unless it’s house style and they want it that way, if you know what I mean.
Essentially to me that’s like saying “Fuck Off!” to the fans at that point: we don’t wanna give you any excuse to love this product enough to create any possible future circumstances that might make it attractive enough to force us to keep it here, where we don’t wanna be.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Mar 31, 2010 5:00 AM PDT up reply actions
So, not to be an apologist
I won’t apologize for Lew Wolff on account of one (I don’t know him) and 2 (I haven’t experienced any of the radio station trouble), but my take on the radio station is completely different.
It is a good first step, moving to a station that is building their local programming solely around the A’s. I know, Marty Lurie is gone and last season it was really hard to hear games in a lot of places.
But, I don’t really miss Marty much (I know I am in the minority), I think Chris Townsend has proven an upgrade to Buan, and the station is broadcasting from a new spot this season (at least until sundown). I choose to believe that over the next 3-5 years KTRB is going to pay off big.
I disagree on townsend
He is dopey to me. He talks to loud. I liked baun’s delivery, an acquired taste to be sure.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
So I replied to this in anohter thread without elaboration
Here is my elaboration:
1. In order to buy what Monte Poole is selling, you have to believe that Bud Selig would let one of his clubs dangle in limbo during a period when every other club was getting league support to build new stadiums, because he hates Oakland. Say what you will about Bud Selig, but he isn’t stupid. He wouldn’t do that. He already had Portland and San Antonio lined up as relocation places (as a result of the Expos and Marlins sagas) if he wanted them out of Oakland.
2. So maybe it isn’t Oakland he wants out of, it is San Jose he wants into? Monte’s article presumes that it would take Bud Selig 15 years (and counting) to move the A’s to San Jose when he could have done it years ago if it was really his goal. Why the delay? He had a South Bay inclined owner before Wolff. He had the right in the MLB Constitution to make a case and over ride the Giants rights. In short, if that was the case it would have already happened.
3. How much mileage can one guy get from Bud Selig saying “It was a terrible mistake to move the A’s to Oakland” back in 2004. And, instead of attacking Bud for saying that, why not try and prove the statement wrong.? Reality is, it is probably a true statement… Sure the A’s won a bunch of championships, but attendance is now and was then a problem (and has been with all ownership groups, including the Haas family). And while you can point to the trophies as an on the field success, the A’s have gone through numerous boom and bust cycles while here in Oakland. It ain’t all been peaches and honey and the bust cycles are directly tied to the lack of revenue (including the current one).
The more telling article is this one, by Frank Deford in 1968. Read the challenges he points out for Oakland, the arguments for Oakland at the time, it’s like nothing has changed. Jack London Square was the next big thing back in 1968! It still is. Oakland was touting it’s proximity to a lot of people in 1968, and despite craptastic attendance under various owners for a long period of time, they still are making that the central point of their argument.
If the A’s stay in Oakland, I will be happy. If they move to San Jose I will be happy. I will be most happy when this conspiracy theory bullshit is dead and buried.
by jeffro on Mar 31, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 10 recs
the SI Vault story is fantastic
A lot of great stuff in there.
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
that actually seems low to me.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 31, 2010 5:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Public Support is nice
but what will count is the economic vitality of the area. Selig cares about corporate seats and that’s about it. Community love? That’s only for the Yanks/Sox/Cubs, everyone else can get in back of the line as the red carpet is rolled out for your boss’ boss.
So much for being the layman’s escape from the drudge of the daily grind.
I’m huge on the A’s staying in Oakland for purely selfish reasons, and I don’t think i’d like having to travel an hour+ in bad traffic to make a game in SJ.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
Corporate support?
Did you forget that one of the biggest Silicon Valley companies in Cisco has been inked to a deal even before the stadium groundbreaking has begun?
And in terms of economic vitality, how does that equate to staying in Oakland?
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
missing it
I’m saying I want the A’s to stay in Oakland because I care about them and have been a fan for a long long time. So I want the A’s to stay because I care (aka selfish reason).
Following newballpark.org site posts over the past few years the point has been made there is much more opportunity for corporate sponsorship in San Jose BECAUSE of Silicon Valley.
It’s great they’ve got Cisco lined up, but Selig will look at the number of corporate boxes they can fill out in San Jose vs. Oakland and feel that it’s more profitable in SJ.
It's just more exciting with Billy Beane running the team.
No one disputes the corporate opportunities in SJ
But community love also means people attend games. And, if times get tough, people may continue to attend games at a higher rate than they would if the team is loved and thought of as a good corporate neighbor. None of those things currently in exist in high numbers at the Coli; for the most part, people either a) could give a crap less or b) think the A’s are moving out of Oakland anyways and are choosing to spend their money elsewhere.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Apr 1, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Its actually pretty high
as you learn if you’d have read fivethirtyeight during the election.
http://newballpark.org/
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_14788216
Yes: 62%
No: 23.5%
Don’t Know: 13%
No Answer: 1.5%
Still, supporters of a ballpark in the San Jose State poll said they saw the stadium as a generator of jobs and economic benefits. Sixty-eight percent of men and 57 percent of women favored the proposal; 67 percent of voters between the ages of 35 to 54 supported the stadium; 64 percent of Democrats and 62 percent of Republicans said yes.
“It would be a national status symbol for San Jose. It would also provide jobs — hundreds of job,” even if they are part-time or seasonal, said Walter Soellner, a retired professor of art at Evergreen Community College and member of the city’s arts commission and a poll respondent. “And I think it would bring a certain sense of pride to San Joseans.”
“They don’t need more housing and they don’t need more office space,” poll respondent Tiffany Gelineau, a 38-year-old registered nurse, said of the city. A stadium, she said, would bring “entertainment and revenue for downtown San Jose. We have the Sharks, but something outdoors would be awesome.”
on the flip side:
“I hate getting caught in the football game traffic up in Candlestick and Oakland as I’m going past to Berkeley,” said Robert Braine, a retired programmer who lives in South San Jose. "I don’t want to see that kind of congestion here.
“I also tend to feel that too many of these situations end up being a taxpayer-financed arrangement,” even though city officials swear that won’t be the case. “I’ve heard that so many times,” Braine said. “If I had trust in the honesty and integrity of the whole thing, I’d certainly be less inclined to oppose it.”
I think Robert is right
traffic will be a nightmare on days that the A’s and Sharks play at the same time.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
SJ would not be the first city to have multiple sports at the same time
It can be done
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Apr 1, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I rarely go to the south bay
but every time I have the traffic has been horrible, imagine it becoming a mini LA traffic wise if the A’s move there.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
How often is that though?
The baseball and hockey seasons only overlap for 1 week unless both teams are in the playoffs
Baseball begins 1st week of April
Hockey playoffs start 2nd week of April
Baseball playoffs start 1st week of October
Hockey starts 1st/2nd week of October
There is probably only 3-5 days per year, on average where there would be two games at the same time
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
Oh
I didn’t know that, I guess it just feels like the Hockey season never ends. What about, uh, uh, the Earthquakes?
regardless, just adding A’s game traffic (especially with a new stadium) will make South Bay traffic that much worse.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Earthquakes new stadium is out by the airport, not downtown
I suppose you could make a claim for 880 being congested, but the quakes barely draw 10,000 a game as it is, and I believe most of their fan base is coming from other parts of San Jose…
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
Think of it this way
If there’s a ton of traffic as a result, Santa Clara County might push harder for the BART extension down there. Then from the North Bay, it’s just a quick hop into the East Bay to a BART station and nice quiet, traffic-free ride down to San Jose… in about 20 – 30 years.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
You think it's a picnic...
driving north on 880 from SJ through rush hour traffic to get to a 7pm A’s game? you got 101, 680 (via mission), 84, 92, and 580 exchange to deal with….SJ traffic is bad, but not thatbad.
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
by ST on Apr 1, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
They just want more information
And I can’t blame them. The ballpark will be their neighbor. But with so little overlap in the NHL and MLB seasons I don’t think the Sharks have much to worry about.
If we really have to worry a lot about A's and Shark's playing at the same time....
Then either team is in the playoffs.
NHL: Beginning of October to April, Playoffs end in Mid-June
MLB: Beginning of April to Beginning of October, Playoffs end in Beginning of November.
I can deal with that.
Count me as for it
The benefit of having the Sharks has been huge for the city and I think a ballpark downtown would be even better. I think the numbers they have shown for having the HP Pavilion has brought more support for having a ballpark as well. There could be a tipping point though, as I believe a new football stadium in Santa Clara would be a mistake.
"We have to win eight. I'll be crushed if we don't win eight." CRN...Eat it BN, lol
by S Jay Bruin on Mar 31, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
There is a trend here
The first poll released by anyone had the public approval in San Jose at 46% to 45% against, it went up after that and the most recent before this one had 53% approval rating. That was a few weeks ago and now it is up by all most 10%. Clearly, San Jose has some momentum.
Not really
This poll asked about using public funds to help bring the A’s, and it was 62% for. That’s up several points from the previous poll which didn’t mention using public funding. The trend appears to be SJ wants the A’s, even if they have to contribute some public funding.
link?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 31, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
In constructing the poll question, the Mercury News sought to make clear to survey respondents the extent of the likely taxpayer contribution. San Jose officials have said the city would provide the land, but that the team — and not taxpayers — would be responsible for building what the city estimates would be a $461 million stadium and financing all stadium operating costs.
a set of letters designated to fill space for hyperlinking
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
so...
as long as it doesn’t cost them anything, has no real effect on their day to day or long-term lives, 62% of the San Jose residents polled are okay with A’s coming.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Apr 1, 2010 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
And the other 39% want to have every meal at IHOP
And we won’t discuss the overlap in the poll.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
much like the A's coming to town,
San Jose people embrace the unobtrusive nature of IHOP.
Mainly, it’s the carafe of coffee and the variety of syrup choices available at every table.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Apr 1, 2010 6:11 AM PDT up reply actions
And who doesn't like a nice BM every now and then
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
I don't equate IHOP with a *nice* BM.
Unless you’re talking about what’s put on the plate.
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev
You make a good point
Two of them in fact. Not “nice” in the pleasant sense, but in the thorough sense.
Leopold Bloom on why he loves Mr. Peter Gammons, his best buddy:
"Peter Gammons systematically ignored and/or ran down the A’s in the pages of Sports Illustrated and The Sporting News for a good ten year stretch in the late seventies and early to mid-eighties. Trust me, the c**ksucker hates our team."
I actually had a lunch with a political operative
at an IHOP in San Jose
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Did you assassinate him?
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Apr 1, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Oaklandish T-Shirts
I just bought one of those “keep baseball in Oakland” T-shirts being sold by Oaklandish. Great looking T-Shirt. While it means nothing where I live when I wear it, I wonder what it would look like if thousands of A’s fans around Oakland began wearing the shirts? Would Wolfe & Co. have a different point of view than the “get out of Oaktown quick as possible” attitude they seem to have?
The greenmachine
Won't make a difference unless
you can get some more butts to the seats in the Coliseum. Also have you read this?
"Twenty minutes," says Jack Sr. "Thank god for Billy Beane."
"Any fan that wants us to do that is going to be disappointed because that just isn’t us." - Wolff
by ST on Apr 1, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
You want to prove to MLB and the ownership that Oakland deserves to keep the A’s. Get 10,000 more fans a game to come out to A’s games, buy season tickets, call your city councilman and tell them to get serious about helping the A’s out, etc… Anything less is a nice gesture, but is meaningless in the grand scheme. That’s why I laugh at people who think joining a Facebook group about keeping the A’s in Oakland or buying a tee shirt from a third party means anything to the team…

by 























