Two Battles For Roster Spots, A Game That Felt Real
by baseballgirl on Mar 24, 2010 10:57 PM PDT
Email
PrintWith somewhere around 1,800 comments in the game threads, do you think people miss baseball? It was great to see all my Wednesday/Friday night people commenting.
Before the game started tonight, Susan Slusser shared an interesting Tweet:
(Forst) did emphasize there are 10 days left before any decision is made (Patterson v Fox)
She also links to the SF Gate Drumbeat article:
Speaking of Fox, I asked Forst how much spring performance will weigh when it comes to the out-of-option guys, Fox and Eric Patterson. He said that it does matter, but that there are 10 days left before the team has to make a decision. I'd assumed coming into the spring that Fox had an edge, especially because the A's just acquired him this winter, but right now, there's no comparison when it comes to the Cactus League stats. Patterson has played well at three different spots (especially at second base) and he's tied for the team lead in hits, with 13. Fox has two hits; his average stands at .063. And his defense has been mediocre at third, maybe adequate in the outfield and much better than I'd thought at catcher.
(I'm ignoring the "adequate in the outfield" comment; I watched him play there live. I'd use words like "horrific", "six-year-old T-ball", "don't quit your day job", and "I hope your team has a DH".)
But I still want Fox on the team. I think we need the power more than we need Patterson (and if Patterson needs to stay, what about Gross?). Fox did not play in tonight's contest, but Eric Patterson did himself no favors (and lost my vote) with his inability to get a bunt down; not once, not twice, but three times in his eighth inning at-bat. I don't hold too much stock in Spring Training numbers, but I find an at-bat like Patterson's tonight unacceptable for someone trying out for the position of utility player. If we're going to go the hit-and-run, base-stealing, smallball-to-scratch-out-runs route in the 2010 season, then our players had better play solid, fundamental baseball. And for Patterson to fail so badly at something that should be automatic for him was disappointing. I'd rather have the power hitter on the bench; at least he can tie the game in the late innings. (Need I say more about Fox's minor league power numbers?)
I was not disappointed with our pitching; however. They should have billed tonight's game as the battle for the fifth starter job, since it turned out to be a chance to showcase both pitchers, and Gio Gonzalez vs. Trevor Cahill turned out to be much more of a riveting contest than we ever could have guessed.
Gio Gonzalez started the game and pitched into the fifth inning, throwing an uneconomical 80+ pitches in his 4+ innings. However, from all accounts, he looked great; he struck out five batters, while walking two and allowing two hits and a run. His only jam was in the second inning when he allowed a sacrifice fly, and at one point, he retired eight in a row; his curveball looked like a "Zito curve" (tm Nico). All in all, a very strong audition for a spot in the starting rotation.
Cahill relieved Gio with one out in the fifth inning and struggled early with his command. He walked the first batter he faced, then allowed a bloop single and a laser single for another Dodgers run. He would give up a double and a run in the sixth, as well, but would pull it together for a dazzling finish. He pitched the rest of the game, allowing just the two runs on four hits, walking two and striking out six, and matching Gio just about pitch for pitch in their contest for the last starter spot.
Edited to add a crucial point from Helloooo 1st:
Gio did his work against the Dodgers’ good lineup while Cahill did his against the scrubs.
We talked a lot about this during the off-season, and most of us just took for granted that either Duchscherer, Sheets, or Braden (who has now permanently lost feeling in two toes) would be unable to start the season, but miraculously enough, it is shaping up to be a real competition. It was also mentioned on the broadcast that it is highly likely that the one not picked would join Mazzaro in the Triple-A rotation, which I think is 100% the right decision.
My pony in this race has been--and still is--Gio Gonzalez. I want Trevor Cahill to pitch well; the A's need him to pitch well; it is certain that he will be in the rotation at some point and he will be a fixture for the A's in upcoming seasons, but if I had to choose a pitcher right now to throw in Anaheim two Fridays from now it would be Gonzalez. But there isn't a "wrong" choice; they both have looked every bit a major league pitcher.
Oh, did you want the game recap? The Dodgers struck for their three runs while their pitchers were hurling a no-hitter. Cust broke it up with a single and Suzuki hit a homerun the next inning for the A's first run. Chavez scored their second run (pam5981: NOOOOOOOO CHAVY DON'T SLIDE!!!!), and Rosales drove in the tying run with a sac fly. (Oh, and Taylor had a hit, too.)
The A's threatened in the ninth, but a sliding catch ended the game in a tie. 3-3 is your final score. We do it again tomorrow!
154 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You know what would be cool?
If an All-Star game were to end in a tie.
Or better yet, a World Series.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Cage match to decide the winner.
It’d put bums in seats.
He steps to the left, he steps to the riiiiiiight. That Amos Roberts, he'll make you look shite!
great write up
i hope Cahill wins it, he really has shown improvement and maybe found that out pitch?? but im biased so maybe im wrong.
by Twan54321 on Mar 24, 2010 11:13 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Don't get me wrong, Cahill is awesome
and I really like him and think he’s very good. I just think Gio has a slight edge from last season. I have no real stake in it; they will both be in the rotation soon enough.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 24, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
and thanks :-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 24, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
your welcome!
keep doin what you do best, cause i need my daily baseball info or i might die, just ask my friends.
by Twan54321 on Mar 24, 2010 11:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If you like Cahill you should want him to go to AAA
So we can control him for 1 more year on the back end when he is likely going to be a better pitcher.
I like Gio.
I like Fox, too. I just don’t think Fox has demonstrated any real pitch recognition while watching him play last season. He’s a fastball hitter, and he’ll ‘eff up the world if he gets junk. Need a dinger? He’ll strike out. If Fox can demonstrate better plate discipline and pitch recognition, keep him.
"With Chance on first, and Evers on third,
Great things from the Cubs will soon be heard."
If Gio can manage his composure,
Which he seems to be doing much better in ST, Is my preference.
Unfortunately, I think the A’s will go w/ Cahill.
Yeah, seriously, awesome wrapup, BBG.
Sadly, I was out all day and missed it. But wow, Gonzalez and Cahill both seemed great. Six K’s for Cahill in four innings and change? That’s new. Love it.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
Thanks!!
And I know…they were both great!
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 24, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems more a race to the bottom than the top with EPat and Fox
EPat has been decent this spring, but those numbers I think show that he’s been facing some AA-AAAA pitching. Judging by some of his performances last year, I wouldn’t expect him to continue that. Fox’s has looked terrible, but I think his upside is way better. Here’s hoping the Fox wins the race.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
That is a brilliant way of putting it...
….race to the bottom. That’s exactly it. And I 100% agree that Fox has more upside (and more of what the A’s NEED)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 24, 2010 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's a pretty good way of putting it.
By the way, does Patterson have another option? He seems young enough.
If so, it makes the decision easier, considering Fox’s lack of options.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
Nope, EPat and Fox are both out of options
This is literally the last stop for them.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 24, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn.
I shouldn’t like Patterson (his defense is annoyingly…limp, and he’s been pretty terrible in the majors), but his AAA numbers are really, really good. Good enough for me to think he’s more than a AAAA Danny Putnam type.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
If I was handicapping this race, I'd say we'll gamble and hope that
since Fox has been so terrible, no one picks him up on the way to AAA. Right now, I’m not sure another team would have any reason to take a chance on him.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 24, 2010 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions
(Dumb questions)
If someone without options is cut, does that mean that another team can pick them up for 25K? And if they do, what do they have to offer that player in terms of contract? Do the As have to cover any of that contract? Do they (the new team) have to put the player on the 25/40 man roster?
I ask these questions because I don’t know why anyone would actually want either Fox or Patterson, if they have to find ML roster space for them. And if that is the case, can’t we just send down Patterson and then package him in a mid-season trade?
Sorry for the dumb questions.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
One of (or both, I suppose) of Fox/Patterson isn't going to make the team.
Since they’re both out of options, they have to be placed on waivers before they can be sent down to the minor leagues.
During the waiver period (I think it’s a couple days) every other team in MLB is free to claim the player. There’s some method to determine the order that teams win claims but that’s not particularly important here. What it means is that if a team claims the player, then they are now property of the claiming team. That’s how we got Breslow from the Twins last year — they were going to send him down, so they waived him and we claimed him.
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev
The losingest team has preference
Which, right now, would be based on last year’s WL records
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
and in claiming the player, the new team gets to pay his contract and put him on their roster
25 man, I believe
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
So, even though Patterson can't make the As roster for the past few (losing) seasons
We should worry that someone else wants to put him on their 25-man roster?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Well, another team might have an injury
Or may have some other use for him. He’s had a decent spring, and he can play multiple positions, so it’s not that crazy. It doesn’t mean they have to keep him forever or anything — they can waive him at a later date themselves.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point.
And I don’t recall the respective salaries (Patterson at minimum? Fox at $1.x?), but is Fox therefore a bigger gamble by another team? Or is this minimized by the fact that they don’t have to pay him a full year’s salary if they can waive him later? Along with this is the fact that as far as anyone can tell, he is still a DH is a year in which everyone seems to have a DH already in line?
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
isn't fox making the minimum or close to it?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
According to Cot's, yes
Nevertheless, even he were making close to $1M, a fraction of that compared to a fraction of the min is small potatoes even for teams with payroll constraints.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, thanks!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Right, and it also goes by league -- a claiming team in the same league gets priority.
But like I said, it wasn’t that big of a deal to mention when just talking about the basic way waivers work.
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev
But it's also only 94 ABs
He also appears to be a below-average fielder: UZR/150 has him at a negative value for all defensive positions he played in his career, with the exception of two games in RF.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
i'm going to need to see the UZR from a third game in RF before i put any stock in that...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
by xbhaskarx on Mar 25, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cubs are dumb
they like burning options and dumping the one of the best relievers.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
They literally burned his option for NO REASON!
We’re talking a matter of TWO DAYS they could have kept his option intact.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait who are we talking about, Fox?
Didn’t they send him down in late August in order to get someone else on the hypothetical post-season roster?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
I think just like that.
Basically he had 19 days of AAA time that year, which is one day shy of using an option. Instead of literally waiting two days until the rosters expanded in Sept, they sent him down and burned his option. Probably, yeah, wanted to get someone else on the postseason roster.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
What does Patterson have to do
He has been awesome… like MVP caliber for 2 seasons in AAA now. He was perfectly fine in his cup of coffee last year and he is been perfectly fine in spring. I think he is every bit as good as Crisp or Davis though a step behind on defense, but with the ability to play 2B maybe negating that a bit.
He deserves a chance. If its not with the A’s, then I hope we trade him somewhere where he can play every day.
My Observations
About the pitching: Gio was much better than Cahill tonight even though their numbers may be similar. Gio did his work against the Dodgers’ good lineup while Cahill did his against the scrubs. At one point Cahill’s ball to strike ratio was 30:37, and I’m too lazy to look up what it was at the end (and I don’t think the box score on mlb.com keeps track of that info for ST games).
I still don’t feel that Cahill has a true out pitch despite his K’s tonight, whereas everything Gio throws is nasty including his changeup. And that changeup really looks like a good pitch even though he has just started throwing it. He had a lot hitters off balance, including Manny in the 1st to get out of the jam. He was even confident enough to throw it in hitter’s counts in some sticky situations. I think Gio is poised to have a break out season but I fear he won’t get that chance.
About the defense: Kouzmanoff has a weird throwing motion and almost committed another throwing error in the 1st were it not for Chavez’ acrobatics. I’m kind of concerned about the way he throws but I’m sure it’s a non-issue since he’s been fine defensively in the past. Chavez looked good at 1st with that aforementioned jump-tag on Manny. Rosales looked a little over-anxious at times, almost booting a ball in the 1st due to his excitement getting to the ball. Rajai did not get a good read on a fly ball so it appears he may still be a work in progress in LF but with his defensive chops he should be fine come Opening Day.
About the Offense: One of my biggest pet peeves in baseball is when players do not take a good swing with the count in their favor (2-0, 3-0, 3-1) and the offense did not make me happy in this regard tonight. Suzuki grounded out feebly on a 2-0 count in the 1st, Kouz got jammed and popped up on a 3-1 count, and there were a couple other examples that I’ve forgotten now. I’m sure it’ll be a long season offensively especially if we couldn’t hit Kuroda in the dry desert air when he was throwing slop over the heart of the plate on a routine basis. Maybe it was an off night for the guys but they need to step it up if they want to beat the likes of King Felix come April 5th.
Sorry for the long post but I figured I’d share my insights in case anyone finds them interesting.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Oh man...this is GREAT info
and HUGE POINT:
Gio did his work against the Dodgers’ good lineup while Cahill did his against the scrubs.
That makes a big difference. I’m going to edit it in.
Nice observations; I certainly care.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 24, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
it is a good point
he struck out players he should be facing until June this year.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Heh.
If what Helloooo 1st is saying about Gio’s changeup is true, look out. He could really fly this year. His fastball is decent enough (91, nice tailing movement) and the curveball is ridiculous. I mean, take a look at this.
Some of those purple dots hit Zito levels of crazy.
This never happened, but I saw you leave
and crawl into a bed of broken windows.
Wow, he really WAS Zito!
Nice call, Nico…
and OHPRETTYGRAPH!
You should write a book. Or more fun things using colored dots.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
That's not tonight's graph, just a random one from last year.
But yeah, Nico’s comparison was pretty apt.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got some more colored pretty dots to play with.
This never happened, but I saw you leave
and crawl into a bed of broken windows.
Seriously, danmerqury
I don’t know what we did without you. You’re AMAZING on the front page.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
pretty colors....
wee!
C’mere squirrel! Look at the pretty graph!
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 25, 2010 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I am honored
Thankee
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Mar 25, 2010 1:06 AM PDT up reply actions
It was an excellent observation...I'd love more!
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
A couple more tidbits now that I've thought more
With regards to Gio’s curveball, it should be noted that curves really suffer in the Arizona atmosphere, similar to that of Colorado. If you’ve been keeping up with the articles about Sheets this spring you’ll know that his curve never is successful during ST and I’m sure this is the reason, in addition to general rustiness. So, if Nico and others were comparing Gio’s curve to Zito’s then imagine what it would be like once the regular season starts!
Also, Cahill should get a little bit more credit tonight than I gave him originally because he did come in mid-inning and that can be a bit disconcerting for a person who is more accustomed to starting, and that’s speaking from a personal standpoint in addition to what you’ll hear other people say.
So the fact that Trevor came in and was a bit erratic with his control may be attributed to the fact that his normal routine was shaken up. He went on to settle down and pitch well and that’s all you can ask of him no matter who he was facing.
As for the Fox vs. Patterson debate I really can’t make a definitive judgment one way or the other. Part of me likes Patterson’s speed, versatility (albeit with poor defense), and strong minor league numbers. Another part of me just likes Fox for his power which this team sorely lacks. When I think of it now, it’s entirely possible that Fox is exposed at the major league level and/or the Coliseum reeks havoc on his power so I’m inclined to go with Patterson. But then I realize that he’s a bit redundant with the seemingly just as good, if not better Rosales around. So I’m back where I started and I’m glad I’m not the one making these decisions.
And finally, I am looking for a Suzuki breakout this season. A lot of people will say that last season was his coming out party but I can sense a 20 HR campaign out of him while hitting around .300. His OBP will probably never improve all that much but his defense seems to be improving (he threw an absolute strike to nail a would-be-basestealer tonight). I think mainstream baseball actually is noticing him with all these quotations along the lines of “best catcher not named Mauer.” Look for Kurt to enter the All-Star game around the 5th or 6th inning this year.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Mar 25, 2010 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Just for the record, when I alluded to the "Zito curve" yesterday,
it wasn’t in regard to how sharp it was in that particular Arizona start — it was in regard to Gio not getting the strike call last night on curves that did drop below the letters.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
It was still a great call...just take it ;-)
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
TW
Uh.. not a gamethread.
Uh.. not a gamethread.HI BBG
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev
Hahaha
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
i love suzuki but let's not get crazy here
I think mainstream baseball actually is noticing him with all these quotations along the lines of "best catcher not named Mauer."
who is saying that? are you sure they’re not talking about brian mccann?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I've read a couple of pieces
From some combination of Slusser, Urban, Lee, and Stiglich who have quoted some scouts saying that Suzuki is the best all around catcher not named Mauer.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Mar 25, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't get to watch Cahill (I only saw Gio)
But I was thoroughly unimpressed with him, as he was also throwing more balls than strikes. He does have great stuff, but he still really struggles to throw it for strikes.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Didn't want to throw this into the old DLD/Edwar thread,
but I see what the scouting reports say about Edwar. His fastball is pretty regular and slow, but he has a nasty, nasty changeup. Unbelievable tailing movement. If it was faster than 79-ish it’d be some kind of freaky super-sinker. And his slider resembles a slower Joe Nathan’s in that it breaks more like a sinking cutter (down, mostly) instead of outside to righties.
This never happened, but I saw you leave
and crawl into a bed of broken windows.
For what it's worth
His changeup is the nastiest pitch I’ve seen in MLB: The Show ’09.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Mar 25, 2010 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions
His flyball ratio
doesnt work at all in an extreme hitters park like NY, but in a slight pitchers park with 3 CFs having his back, watch him throw up an ERA that will surprise the hell out of everyone in oakland. If you play fantasyball and have holds as a stat, I’d grab him in May, he’s a sleeper.
It will all be academic soon.
Billy has wanted Fox for awhile. So Fox will make the team. But Patterson wil continue to get a lot of at bats, with Billy hoping that with each hit he gets, his trade value will rise.
Patterson and Fox cant play together
unless injury or a surprise send down (Powell? Barton? that would be terrible GMing though) happens. I guess Powell can be sent down and Fox can be the backup C, but we have to face it that we now have too many players and have to trade again. Im thinking Patterson will be the one on the way out, and Fox will be the 2011 DH.
BTW, in 2011
I see us as:
1B: Barton/Carter
2B: Cardenas
SS: Pennington
3B: Kouzmanoff
C: Suzuki
LF: Carter/Davis
CF: Sweeney/Davis
RF: Taylor/Davis
DH: Fox/Carter/Barton
Wait, explain to me why Cahill pitching even 1 inning in the bigs this year is a good thing?
He’s 21, was extremely lucky last year (5.33 FIP, he was one of the worst pitchers in baseball) and needs seasoning. We got Sheets because of this reason alone. Cahill is NOT ready no matter what happens in spring.
Gio on the other hand, was better than Cahill at every single turn. Gio threw some incredible games, looked dominant at times and just needs to cut back the walks and boom, he’s an all-star. His peripherals are way better and this shouldnt even be up for questioning. Gio and Barton are the 2 guys who look like theyre going to finally grow into their reputations in 2010.
Cahill isnt a face I want to see up here this year. 2011 its go time of course, but even thinking about him playing in 2010 makes me sick to my stomach. Like, maybe a late season start or 2, but he seriously needs AAA time.
Cahill was perceived as a better prospect than Anderson by many
If he has figured it out during the last pasrt of the season and this winter, there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the line-up, other than service time.
Yeah and that we have a full rotation already, thanks to Sheets+Duke.
Unless you want a 6 man rotation, which knowing our luck with injuries, might even be a smart thing.
Sheets-Duke-BA-Braden-Gio is the rotation, Cahill comes in when we get injuries or hopefully just next year after Sheets+Duke leave. Im perfectly happy with that.
If Cahill is throwing his curve and missing bats in June
call him up and more braden to the bullpen. (if everyone else is healthy too, that is.)
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Because Cahill was so highly touted I want him in AAA
He isn’t yet living up to that potential. Until he is striking out nearly a batter an inning and cuts down on the homers and walks, I don’t want to see him on the team. Why waste 1,2 or 3 years of service time now when he is average? In a couple years he will be great… he just needs time to develop more. Lets get the most out of him then…
But if he's still limited to first base, is he really healthy?
I would not be surprised to see him start the year on the DL.
From all accounts, he's healthy and ready to play.
1B and DH, I’d imagine
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Sunk costs...
are a different animal than future value
And yes...100% a lock to play.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Bunting still a problem?
Bunting was a problem last year too. I seem to recall that I had a problem with this in high school and my coach always hounded me that I should have learned this basic tool in little league. Maybe Eric and the rest of the gang should review this link on how to bunt-
http://www.ehow.com/how_5015289_teach-little-leaguer-bunt.html
The greenmachine
Yeah we do
We just don’t advance the runner.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
snicker
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Poor old Miltie
“If I was a musician, I’d be Kanye West”
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
By which he means that Barack Obama would call him a jackass?
Pretty sure that’s already happened at least once.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
The fundamental-scratch-out-runs style of baseball doesn't work anyway
so if the A’s are “going that route,” a. what they do with their offense doesn’t matter a damn because they won’t score any runs anyway, and b. you might as well keep the best hitters around for a season that you aren’t punting before it starts.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
It's worked pretty well for some teams.
For example, the 2007 Angels were 9th in the AL in SLG, 12 in home runs, but 4th in runs scored.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
AGREED!!!
If scratching out runs doesn’t work, abandon all hope for the A’s in 2010. But if it doesn’t, why’d we finish the season strong last year?
The A's finished the season strong last year because their OPS in the second half was like 100 points higher than in the first half
Small ball had utterly nothing to do with it.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
2007 Angels
- 3rd in the AL (tied with Detroit, behind New York and Boston) in OBP.
- 4th least sacrifice hits in the AL — only Detroit, Boston, and Oakland had fewer
- They did have the most failed stolen bases, and only managed a 71.6% success rate.
- Most sac flies in the AL, but I would argue that this isn’t about “small ball”, it’s about getting people on base.
by colin on Mar 25, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
EPat and Fox are most likely to be DFA
In order to give Gabe Gross a spot on the Opening Day roster. I don’t like Gross, I personally would keep Fox, but it doesn’t seem like management is going to DFA Gross over EPatt or Fox.
This is assuming that Gross already has a spot
There’s one left; Fox or Patterson
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Or Travis Buck
But I think his species is nearing extinction.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
hahahahahahahahahaha!
Buck. Good one cuppingmaster.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
I don't think they will...just IMO
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I think you have to start 11, and hope your SPs can go at least 6 the first week
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I predict Devine to DL,
5 short relievers and a long reliever for the first couple weeks, which means spots for 5 on the bench. It buys a little time for Patterson or Fox until Devine is ready.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Devine's definitely headed to the DL
but I think they’ll replace him with a reliever rather than a position player.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
If I had to guess...I'd say 6 relievers and 5 starters Opening Day
if ONLY to buy some more time.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
How are they going to make that work, with so few off days in the schedule?
Moreover, it’s likely Duke and Sheets will have strict pitch count limits in place. I’ll be really surprised if they carry 11 pitchers.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
Ideal world we have to have 12...I agree
But then this point is moot; I guess you send Rosales down, keep Patterson, use Chavy as backup SS, and let Fox go.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
If it were up to me
the bench would be Rosales, Powell, Chavez, and Fox. The Gross signing was a really bad idea.
"PECOTA can pretty much kiss my ass."-Nico
I agree with your choices.
I think the Gross signing was just insurance, which turns out not to be needed. Gross has proven himself to be a mediocre major leaguer. Fox, Patterson, and Buck all have much more upside. Gross would be the last one I would keep. I think Beane wants the power, so if Fox starts to hit at all in the next week and a half I think he’s the guy that will stay. If not then Patterson has a chance.
I don't think Patterson has more upside than Gross
Gross is a better OFer than Patterson will ever be and has proven he can be a decent major league hitter against RHP.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Don't forget
Gross’ defense is elite. We can’t say that about EPat or Fox.
If Pennington manages 17 HRs, I’ll vow to consume an article of clothing to achieve a humorous effect --Joey C.
You're right.
I should’ve specified mediocre hitter. They don’t need a defensive replacement for any of their starters. And if one goes on the DL they can bring up Buck.
That would be my choice too
But I think Geren has already said he would prefer to go with 12 pitchers. We only have a couple off days and with Sheets, Duchscherer and Braden in the rotation then the A’s might decide they need the extra pitcher.
Interesting to note...
The A’s invested more in Fox than in Gross. Letting Fox go means we wasted $1.7MM (Miles) and Jeff Gray. Letting Gross go means we wasted $750k.
Gross has a lot to offer but nothing that we can’t replace from a number of sources. Fox has right handed power which we desperately need (though not much else).
I wouldn’t be shocked if Gross was the one to go. Though I would assume he has some minimal trade value so I doubt a waiver is in order.
No room
I thought Geren made clear we needed seven relievers to start the season because we have no days off in the first two weeks. With Rosales, Chavez, Gross and Powell there would be no room for Fox OR Patterson.
Maybe only 6 bullpen until something happens?
I think Powell, Barton, and Rosales all have an option.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I think 3 of those will make the roster, if not4
Chavez gets cut and possibly Landon Powell get sent down, with Fox being a backup for C and 1B.
Patterson has a decent chance of getting traded (why else is he getting the most AB’s)
There’s no way the A’s are going to cut 5 or 6 years of control over Fox for nothing.
Gio and Cahill (have you seen the GO/FO ratio for Cahil this spring ?!) are looking great, pretty tough decision to send eith one of them down, so maybe you go with a 6 man rotation or you share 9 innings every 5th day like they did now.
How many games would Fox have to be catcher in the first three weeks?
If it is small enough, I agree with this part: send down Powell and then bring him back when Chavez goes on the DL.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
To putthings in perspective
If you assume Patterson or Fox to be worth 1 WAR for 5 years and a Free Agent WAR rate to be 4 mln, that sums up to 20 million of value over 5 years, minus salary. They could be better, they could be worse, but you’d have to see more value in Chavez in only 1 year to make it worthwhile.
Fox won't be the backup catcher
It would limit his ability to DH since we would always have to save him in case something happens to Suzuki. We won’t be keeping Fox around just to catch once a week.
Why would it limit his ability to DH?
In the unlikely event that Suzuki gets hurt, he’d shift from DH to catcher, the A’s might have a pitcher bat one or two times (max) before going to pinch hitters, and then they’d call someone up from AAA.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
The other thought is that Rosales might be sent down
I HATE that, but he does have the option
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
And it goes without saying that Patterson will NOT clear waivers
If the A’s let him go, SOMEONE will pick him up, and they should.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
I hope they do and someone does claim him
His presence complicates matters for little gain on our part with Rosales and Gross in the fold now.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Thats true
but he’s still eric patterson and a borderline AAAA player, I wouldnt trip. Fox is more intriguing (read: can mash) so Id rather he stay.
Me too.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Why? He sucks.
I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THE HITTING OF BASEBALLS AND SCORING OF RUNS. -mikev
only an ZOMG CENSORED WORD FAMILY SITE quotes himself. -mikev
I agree. Patterson may well clear waivers
if he’s exposed on April 4th. Unless someone happens to suddenly, desperately need a guy who’s turning 27 later in the week, hasn’t really hit big league pitching, and can’t play any position well, I’m thinking he may not be highly coveted.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I think the main flaw in AN's reasoning tends to be
the reluctance to send down Patterson and/or Fox. They may well both pass through waivers and if they don’t the A’s may well be able to get them back in a year or so if they wish.
Neither plays good defense, neither is very young, neither is a good enough complete hitter to be worth rearranging your roster just to keep them around.
If they fit, keep them. But if you have to send them down and risk losing them, remember that they’re Patterson and Fox, not Carter and Taylor.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
by Nico on Mar 25, 2010 10:48 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
But what else would we talk about?
Heck, they BOTH might be out of luck if Rosales makes the team.
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 25, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
The problem with that is it leaves you without a backup shortstop.
Patterson only plays second base. I know there’s been talk of playing Chavez at short occasionally, but that would be foolish to put such an injury prone player at the most demanding defensive position. One that he’s never played as a professional, I might add. Either Pennington would have to play every day or they would have to play someone out of position.
Yeah -- Rosales is in, IMO.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Why not "send down" (eg release) Chavez,
who not only doesn’t play good defense, isn’t young, and isn’t a complete hitter, but is also horribly injured and has a contract that expires after this year?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
by PaulThomas on Mar 25, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'd have to say the idea of sending Chavvy down to AAA
is LAME!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Same way they sell them now.
He is not going to be less popular because he is gone.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Eric Chavez is my favorite "A" and will continue to be for the foreseeable future
even when he is gone.
But Barton is a better player on offense and defense right now. Jack cust is a better hitter right now. There isn’t even a platoon advantage because they all hit left handed.
If there was another position Chavez could play, great put him on the team. It appears that there is not. Why waste roster space on someone who is not as good as the others at that position?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Is being segacious like being Wiise?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s
Team should have resolved Chavez's situation when he broke down last April
Just give him the money and put him out of misery.
true
but I"m hoping that he starts to hit some and be valuable trade bait at the deadline. He really doesn’t have a place on the team unless someone gets injured.
dood, I've come to the conclusion that you're just a dumb*ss.
by sf drift king on Mar 25, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Turn green
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Nico's post, not this one ;-)
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 25, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
agrd,
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 25, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
if cahill makes the rotation over gio i say we TP beane's house
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones."
-BB 07/27/05
I say we do it anyway!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Okay, my take real quick, then off to work I go!
Gio is going to be the 5th starter….book it!
Rosales will make the team because he can play all 4 infield positions, with SS being critical since their is no other trues SS on the team.
And I picked Fox over Patterson because even though Fox can’t even play defense on a video game, he still has value for his power and the ability to play emergency catcher. Patterson looks exactly the same as when he was brought over in the Harden trade. Needless to say, he is what he is and will probably never be anything more than roster filler. The bunt attempt was totally brutal!
Go A’s!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
It's not often that you see, in the same pitch, issues around:
- “bunting foul with two strikes”
- “did he offer at the pitch?”
- “if you’re hit by a pitch you offer at with two strikes…”
- “did it hit him?”
Pretty funny.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
my vote was for
Cahill and Fox. I’m a huge Gio fan, but I think Cahill should edge him out for the 5th starter’s job. Also, keep in mind that if guys are still ailing in the pen, gio could make the team in relief.
dood, I've come to the conclusion that you're just a dumb*ss.
There's really no need for this.
Because there’s no real competition to be had between 5th and “6th” starters. Both will get plenty of starts throughout the year. So, the real question is which one will benefit more from a few weeks or a month in AAA, a question that people here have assured me is easy to answer: Cahill. Note that this is different than saying he’s better or worse than Gio. The likelihood of each getting 20+ starts is pretty darn high, regardless of who is in uniform on April 5. Putting Gio in the pen is a waste of the innings that he should pitch as a starter – and we’ll need him!
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Athletics Nation
Related FanShots on Athletics Nation
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Get a grip: Reds’ Todd Frazier loses bat, still connects for home run (Video)
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
