"The Eyeball Knows": What The A's Should Do To Get To 25
by Nico on Mar 15, 2010 4:43 PM PDT
178 comments
First off, apologies to emperor nobody for the quick hook of today's recap -- please make sure to check it out so you can join in making Airplane jokes.
Having spent the last 3 days watching the A's and seeing some of the newer faces, I have figured out what I would do, in the A's shoes, to get the roster to 25 with the team's current state of health.
First off, Daric Barton is the starting 1Bman. He is easily the best defensive option the A's have, Chavez included (you can't master a new position that fast no matter how good a defensive player you were somewhere else on the field), and he is quite possibly their best hitter too. In fact unless the combination of Chavez/Fox have 25 HRs in them, which they don't, it's almost a certainty. Barton has done everything right so far in Spring Training and it's time for the A's to figure out whether he has turned the corner -- because if he has, he could be a big asset for several years.
Next, let's take a look at Jake Fox, whom I've now seen. Defensively, it took a sample size of one for me to conclude that he's probably a worse OFer than Jack Cust. You didn't let me finish -- Jack Cust's grandmother. On the first ball in the first inning, he took a bad route, staggered around and then slipped and fell down -- as the ball was landing a good 15 feet away from him. It was pretty pathetic. At the plate, I saw him all weekend and the guy does not take pitches. He basically hopes every pitch will be a fastball down the middle, decides before the pitcher delivers the ball that he will swing, and the one time he was right he launched it. Most of the time, he swings and misses.
Remember that when the A's acquired Fox, Cust and Kouzmanoff were not on the A's. With Cust, Chavez, and Kouzmanoff now in the mix, I believe the A's should send Fox down and expose him to waivers. It's not that big a deal. He is Kouzmanoff without the defense, which is a bit like Mozart without the musical talent. And with Chavez under contract and still healthy, and with Patterson out of options, I think it's a mistake to value Fox any more than as insurance against Chavez, or someone else, breaking down before the A's have to set their roster.
Coco Crisp starts the season on the DL -- he hasn't even played the field yet and now he's out a week altogether with a bad hamstring. That buys 2 more weeks to let the rest of the roster sort itself out.
If Joey Devine is ready, you go with a 7-man bullpen and 4-man bench (with Gabe Gross starting in LF for 2 weeks):
Bailey
Devine
Wuertz
Ziegler
Breslow
Blevins
Jennings
Powell
Chavez
Rosales
Patterson
If Devine isn't ready Opening Day, go with 5 short relievers plus Jennings as the long man and now you can add Fox, who will probably be dumped when Crisp gets back unless by then the A's prefer to dump Gross or Patterson.
Spring Training doesn't mean a lot, unless you're Jake Fox and you show your true colors to your new team. I was very unimpressed with what I saw and it helped me to decide that the roster crunch isn't that crunchy after all.
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thanks Nico, I appreciate your in-person impressions
more and more I’m thinking that Fox doesn’t make alot of sense to hold on to on the 25 man roster unless (heaven forbid) injuries make it possible. I know he’s been a target of Beane for some time, but hopefully that doesn’t outweigh other issues.
By the way, FWIW,
Carter looked very comfortable at 1B, including tracking a foul pop and looking effortless (which Cust and Fox never look). However, I didn’t see him field a ground ball or scoop a throw in the dirt so…But he looked like he belonged (or felt he did) there.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That brings up the big question. If Barton keeps playing good. and Carter excels....
What will they do with Carter, I mean after AAA. Maybe he can DH and play some 1B
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
carter at DH doesn't seem like a bad idea
the question then becomes what happens to dolittle and barton
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
If Doolittle's legs can hold up
I think he has a reasonable shot of playing corner outfield.
You'd have to think in that case
Unless Carter absolutely forces his way into the bigs this year (I’m talking last year’s numbers in AAA) that the only way he’s playing full time is if Cust is struggling or injured. Otherwise, let him play it out in AAA until next year when Cust is most likely gone, or Barton becomes a valuable trade chip again.
As much as I would love to have Carter in Oakland asap, a productive Barton is a very good problem to have…
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by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Carter / Taylor / Cardenas
I think the goal is to have both of these guys ready for 2011. It might be in our best interest to get them at least 2-3 months in Oakland.
by Colorado Fan on Mar 16, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for the review Nico..
but I’m still not seeing how Travis Buck isn’t factoring in all of this? Are you and others here leaving him out of the picture because he still has options left or because you don’t think he deserves consideration for a roster spot?
Frankly, I’m a bit distressed that folks are talking about keeping a guy like Patterson or Gabe Gross over a guy like T. Buck. Barton, absolutely all the way, of course! But why Patterson, and to a lesser degree Gross? Discuss pleez!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Gross is much more valuable than Buck at this point
He puts up league average offensive numbers with above average defense. We can’t count on Buck for that production right now.
Not saying Buck won’t be more valuable, but you know what you’re getting with Gross, and if Beane is in fact thinking this team will contend, you have to go with the surefire option right now.
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by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure I agree with you...
Again, I think Travis deserves a real serious look before the A"s decide who stays and who goes…just saying.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
the thing with buck is his option
buck has a bigger upside, if healthy, but he can be stashed at AAA for nothing, and the others are just as likely to give the same kind of value. So Buck has to be sent away.
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Right.
But if he’s performing at a higher level come the end of ST I don’t see why his option remaining is anything other than a crutch and cheap excuse to keep him at sac. See my point?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I'm leaving out Buck because CLEARLY he's not in the A's plans
For whatever reason, he just isn’t. I’m not saying I would have signed Gabe Gross, but since they did he’s going to play over Buck and Patterson’s out of options. Buck is having a solid spring training and the A’s don’t appear to much care.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
The way he's been treated is fucking astounding.
They call their best player "Kung Fu Panda" and they complain that people aren’t taking them or the game seriously enough? -Nick
It's pretty weird
It’s like they signed Gross, and are taking a long look at Patterson, because they need a 4th OFer who can play good defense and has some pop in his bat…Hello-o-ooo…In the conversation?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
That's exactly my point Nico & mike v!
Why is Buck “still” getting the shaft? I just don’t get it!?!?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
My uninformed guess:
He rolls in at 4am from nights of women and booze, and the A’s aren’t on board with the maturity. He certainly came to the park today at noon looking like he had just woken up.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Really?
Interesting…maybe he’s still “partying too much?”
Speculation of course….we need to get SuSLu in to this conversation!
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
signal
sign the bat SuSlu signal, mrod!
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions
he kinda looks like that naturally
But I really don’t get it either. Buck is a better Eric Patterson, but without the ability to play IF positions. We already have Chavez, Pennington, and either Rosales or Sogard to play IFs. We don’t need Patterson, yet he keeps rearing his head everywhere, even over Buck.
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2010 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Patterson
is a better Eric Patterson, but without the ability to play IF positions.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Both Pattersons still suck
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2010 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Patterson's stats dominated Buck's last year
In AAA and in the majors. Patterson has proven a lot more than Buck has and should be far ahead of him on the depth chart.
They are about the same age. Patterson frankly has a lot more to offer. Buck needs a good year in AAA before getting another shot. Batting in the .270s with single digit HRs is not how you force your way onto a major league roster.
Not sure why so many people ignore stats when evaluating Buck.
Probably the same reason you ignore defense?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Supposedly the players are at the park by 8am
Working on various parts of their game, long before the actual game. You think Buck got there that late?
by OaklandSi on Mar 15, 2010 8:08 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
8am?!
Jeez. I’d protest that if I was a ball player.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Dokken!
"Cheese is the fruit juice nature intended."- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
ACK!
MAKE THE BAD MUSIC GO AWAY!
MAKE THE BAD MUSIC GO AWAY!
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 16, 2010 6:00 AM PDT up reply actions
That was actually a Stripes reference
gets big toe ready
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I can run like 8 miles.....
Not at 8am mind.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
But can you run like aaron miles?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
I feel like there must be something we don't know.
But, outside of something criminal, I can’t figure out what might be. Its not like he’s the first to have an attitude problem.
That something is performance...
His AAA track record is that of someone who is not MLB-worthy. And its a 2 year track record.
Its really not astounding.
His OPS in Sacramento over the last two years has been in the mid-.700s. If he hasn’t received regular playing time at MLB its because he hasn’t shown he deserves it.
In reply to mikev's "The way [Buck]'s been treated is fucking astounding":
There’s something here (and in previous discussions about Buck, so this is not attributed specifically to mikev in particular) that seems to attribute some “personal” rather than “personnel” issue. Ballplayers are commodities – they are subject to the whims of their possessers; their fate is in the hands of the bosses. They may have legal rights that can be contravened. They may have personal expectations, too, but these are not the same thing. Some players receive greater investment than others, in order to maximize their potential, and some are clearly uninvested and thus may have their possible value squandered.
If this is what happened with Buck, then it is not at all astounding to me. At most, it is bad judgment (a squandered asset), but it is reasonable that not all investments can be properly maintained in order to maximize their potential value. The failure of the As organization (if there is such a failure) to maximize Buck’s potential is wasteful, and perhaps internally stressful on the organization, but that’s all.
Analogy occurs to me: factory owners recognize that there will be some waste in the production process, and thus have more raw materials on hand than can be transformed into commodities. An efficient organization minimizes its waste (that is actually the definition of efficiency, I believe), in comparison with its competitors, but does not eliminate it. To truly eliminate waste would require a foreknowledge not available to finite perceivers. Just as it is sad that some lumber on a construction job gets tossed away and dragged to the dump, it is sad (I guess) that Buck isn’t being used to build the structure.
A Ballade [for the Angels Fan], by Eustache Deschamps: "We are cowardly, ill-formed and weak / Aged, envious and evil-spoken. / I see only fools and sots / Truly the end is nigh / All goes ill."
I thought he was coming along nicely this spring, myself.
And while we’re at it, what exactly is it that Eric Patterson done to sweep you off your feet?
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
Not that I agree with it
But Patterson has the super-utility role filled out. Granted, he sucks hard at those positions, but he can play them and isn’t littered with an injury history. There may be some role for him (again, not that I want him)
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 15, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
He's just such a defensive liability everywhere
Unlike Rosales or Buck.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
SUPER Utility?
really super? that seems mighty strong
by Sir Realist on Mar 15, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, doesn't a guy have to be good at at least one position to qualify for that?
www.zekeishungry.com
I wouldn't wave Patterson just because Buck hits a few dingers in ST.
I think Patterson is much maligned around here due to his terrible first impression(s) in Oakland, but he was actually doing quite well by the end of last season, and ranked among the A’s top five players in offensive categories like wRAA and wOBA (SSS caveats apply of course, but that hasn’t stopped people from going nuts over Barton’s OBP, so I’m giving Patterson the same benefit). Don’t get me wrong, I figure Patterson profiles as a pretty marginal, barely above replacement utility guy, but I don’t think Buck has really proven he’s much better. And since part of this conversation involves fielding the 25 best guys, here’s how Buck and Patterson compared last year:
MLB wOBA:
Patterson: .350
Buck: .276
MLE adjusted OPS from AAA:
Patterson: .728
Buck: .618
That’s a pretty whopping difference – more than enough to account for any defensive advantage Buck might have in the outfield – and it covers an entire season of playing time. I was an early proponent of the notion Buck had been spurned by the A’s brass (perhaps for reasons involving his work ethic), but after seeing him struggle in AAA in the second half last year I think its entirely possible he’s just not that good. Patterson has proven he can dominate at AAA, Buck hasn’t. Buck needs to perform well in Sacto rather have a job handed to him based simply on ST performance.
by Aufheben on Mar 15, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who are you speaking for?
Is this the same “us” that thinks Cunningham is an all-star, Kouzmanoff is a bum and Daric Barton was empirically the A’s best hitter last year? If so I would prefer not to trust “them.” And you seem to have missed my point. I never said Patterson doesn’t suck – I said he is a “barely above replacement utility guy,” who is better than Buck.
2009 stats in AAA only
Buck:
Team League AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
SAC PCL .272 232 37 63 13 3 5 29 23 44 3 1 .345 .418 .763
Patterson:
Team League AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
SAC PCL .307 466 91 143 29 11 12 56 52 81 43 6 .376 .494 .870
And Patterson was better in the majors. 2008 is almost the exact same story.
Case closed.
exactly
NO IDEA EVER why Buck has such a good rep around here. Everyone loves him and he’s rewarded the love by sucking—-eh better stop this metaphor before it gets too weird.
Because Buck has proven that he CAN be successful at the MLB level?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
Also, he's fucking sexy.
Ya, I said it.
Keep in mind, of course, that "the best defense of Derek Jeter's life" ranks somewhere in between "the best fiscal responsibility of Mike Tyson's life" and "the best not-getting-assassinated-ness of James Garfield's life." -FJM
agree on Fox
Foxy Lady, if you ask me.
Thanks for your in-person analysis Nico, keep it coming!!
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
wait, are you saying "foxy lady" is an insult?
So when people yelled it out of cars back in the day, I should’ve been offended?
by stormtown on Mar 15, 2010 6:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
foxy lady is only an insult
when you’re a dude and an alleged big league ballplayer named Fox.
Most of the time, Foxy Lady is a good thing.
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Mar 15, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
if you were a crossdresser, and someone yelled foxy lady, I think it would be a compliment.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a lot better than "Oh Hell No!"
"Cheese is the fruit juice nature intended."- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
He was just downright terrible
I saw him yesterday and he clearly has no idea what he’s doing with the bat.
Therefore, I disagree that Fox is Kouz without the glove. I think Kouz has taken some good ABs this spring and just had a bit of bad luck. Look for him to turn it around soon.
"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."
by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, to clarify I mean
“low OBP, decent power” — but yes, Kouz does that better too.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
SHUT UP!
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
hey, save that for the trolls.
Besides, everybody knows Fox’s nickname is “Clank.”
"Cheese is the fruit juice nature intended."- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 16, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't you have to make contact for that?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
here, kitty kitty...
"Cheese is the fruit juice nature intended."- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 16, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Not familiar with Monty Python, I take it?
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
ya gotta be TOO familiar with MP to know that one
had to look it up myself and I’m a big python fan.
here’s a link, for those interested:
http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/flyingfx.htm
The A's. The SWINGING A's. That's right, the SWINGING A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Mar 16, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I am Inspector Tiger!
TIGER?
Where, where???
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I am beginning to agree
Fox really does complicate things in much the same way Chavez complicates things. As long as Patterson continues to perform, I’d be pretty upset to see him leave the team because of those guys.
And frankly, if Crisp is injured, I’d rather see Patterson get the start for those 2 weeks as I think he is a more dynamic player than Gross.
There is an outside chance one of Pennington/Rosales doesn’t make the team. Since they have options this isn’t as painful unless you consider that it means Chavez is the backup SS… but on the bright side thats a quick way to get him injured and clean up the roster some more.
1.7 million and a few spare parts
almost as silly as gallagher, italiano, webb, and cunningham for kouzmanoff and sorgard
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Negative Captain!
It was Hairston and Cunningham for Kouz and Sogard.
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
But to get Hairston
we gave away Gallagher, Italiano and Webb. So…..
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by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats not that bad a trade
Italiano and Webb are barely factors. So a 5th starter and a AAA outfielder for a proven third baseman and a AA/AAA 2B seems plenty fair.
I certainly wouldn't say they're "barely factors"
What they are is something, namely bullpen pitchers, that the A’s had so much of that trading some of it away— even at a “loss”— was clearly a good idea.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Thanks, Nico, for your assessment of Fox!
I think he has this thing where he needs everybody to think he’s the greatest— the quote-unquote fantastic Mr. Fox —and if they aren’t completely knocked-out, dazzled, and kind of intimidated by him, then he doesn’t feel good about himself.
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Mar 15, 2010 5:05 PM PDT reply actions
Does this mean that both Gio and Cahill are on the 25-man too?
I saw this line in the paper this morning that made me think Cahill was a sure thing:
“Cahill and Stewart actually taped an A’s commercial together this offseason, where Stewart tries to teach Cahill the stare-down.”
If Stewart can teach any pitcher his stare down.. that make them a better Pitcher.
I loved watching Stew through in the 80’s… 4 – 20 win seasons was remarkable… between his startdown and Eck’s, the other teams didn’t have a chance.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, either way, YOU'RE RIGHT !"
I was thinking Brett Anderson myself...
"By the end of the year, I'll have Dallas throwing right-handed'' -Ben Sheets
I see what you did there.
"People need to get over the concept of TMI. Mammals are drippy. Deal with it." ~Gaijin_Suketto
Lincecum's lungs are bigger.
That’s why he wins more games.
"Cheese is the fruit juice nature intended."- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 15, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
You need to move up to advanced metrics.
It’s all about lung capacity as a percentage of body mass.
"Cheese is the fruit juice nature intended."- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 16, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
In my scenario, there's only room for one of those two
Sheets
Duke
Braden
Anderson
Cahill or Gio
Only if one of those top 4 can’t go is there room for both.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd give Gio the shot first over Cahill.
If Sheets is awesome he’ll be traded at the All Star break and Duke is never going to last the season, so Cahill will get his chance in the bigs one way or another this season.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Personally, so would I
I don’t think the A’s look at it this way but it’s how I would — I’d like to see Cahill in AAA for half a season and Gio in the A’s rotation.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I'd like to see...
…that commercial! I’m tired of the Gnats stuff already.
"With Chance on first, and Evers on third,
Great things from the Cubs will soon be heard."
I find it amusing that Fox was talking about making the Cubs see what they're missing
I wonder if they’ll miss him as much as he misses pitches.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
worse than that
Just terrible
"Bobby Crosby at third is a bit of an adventure. And not like, here’s some hidden treasure, what fun. More like, gah! poison ants!" --alea iacta est
by baseballgirl on Mar 15, 2010 6:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Very logical, Mr. Spock
But if Crisp is gone for the first two weeks, then nobody has to be exposed.
The starting outfield consists of Sweeney and Davis, with the third slot going to Patterson, Gross or Cust, depending. Fox backs up Kouzmanoff; Chavez backs up Pennington; Patterson backs up Ellis; Powell backs up Barton if Chavez is elsewhere; and Fox backs up Suzuki if Powell is elsewhere. There’s a lot of flexibility here, even without Rosales.
So with seven players set in the line-up, you have Cust, Chavez, Patterson, Fox, Gross and Powell to fill the other slots.
Meh
In this instance basically every backup is a below average defender…
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by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
True
But the idea of tossing nearly two million dollars out the window based on a few spring training games doesn’t make a lot of sense, particularly considering how injury-prone the A’s have been over the past few years.
Obviously, in retrospect, it appears foolish to have traded for Fox in the first place, but I’ve noticed over the years that Beane will do this - oversupply himself in the off-season, and then let the chips fall. Usually it works out, though the logjam has caught up with the team from time to time, most notably when Bradley was DFA’d and then immediately thereafter, someone else was injured. Given Travis Buck, Eric Patterson and Michael Taylor, I didn’t see the need to sign Gross either, but that’s the way the A’s seem to work.
My thought is that while you’re right, and these are below-average defenders, those two weeks of Crisplessness would give management a chance to see some of these guys in action, during the season, on the major league club.
Ok
I can understand that
"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."
by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
But richwol1, your scenario has too many bench players
unless you go with a short-handed bullpen. I’m thinking you need 7 relievers with Devine, could go with 6 without (if one is a long man). But either way you have only 4-5 non-starters who can make the roster.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I still don't think Chavez at short
is EVER going to be a viable option. BTJM
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
I agree that Fox should go
but I don’t believe that Beane would do it since Fox seems to be one his faves, plus he would have to eat part of his salary, which would make him look bad.
I don't know that he's such a "fave"
He was acquired when the team did not have Cust or Kouz and when Chavez’ health was a total question mark. The team had NO power. Now it has some.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fox
To me they acquired him to give them a RH bat do they want to have Gross, Cust or Chavez (assuming they want to take it easy with him and not run him out there every day) facing LH’s?
ogallalabob
know what I'm looking at right now?
Rich Harden, giving up a home run to Fred f’in Lewis!
by stormtown on Mar 15, 2010 6:09 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
the ballpark in arlington is really a launching pad
wait, where are they?
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
I think we're falling into the classic sample size trap
Fox looks terrible, both in process and results. Maybe he’s pressing, maybe just unlucky, maybe just trying to get some swings in. But it’s still only 25 ABs and spring ones at that. His projections haven’t changed and he has better chance than Patterson to make it as a big league starter. Sure I wish Fox was tearing it up but he deserves more of a shot than 25 spring ABs.
And after all remember when last ST we were fearful of the Cub we traded for as he had a terrible spring?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Mar 15, 2010 6:11 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Who?
"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."
by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh
I thought you were trying to make a point of SSS. But Gallagher was also bad last year….
Not sure I know what you’re trying to get at…
"Did you know you can comment on Athletics Nation from your phone or PDA? SB Nation has launched mobile commenting. Check it out next time you’re at the game or bar and have something to say."
by stranahanahan on Mar 15, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, except Fox is doing exactly what we heard he did wrong his whole career
He’s also just not that useful since he can’t play defense and plays on the same team that has Cust and Chavez.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Other than that, though, he sounds like a great addition! ;-)
There is no "i" in Teamocil. At least not where you'd think.
by GreenNGoldSooner on Mar 15, 2010 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh most definitely
I love the guy as long he doesn’t have a glove or a bat in his hand.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
so you're thinking umpire?
The A's. The SWINGING A's. That's right, the SWINGING A's.
by eastcoasta'sfan on Mar 16, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I think vignette is referring to Wuertz
"We were shit, pathetic," Guillen growled early in spring training. "We hit too many home runs."
by lenscrafters on Mar 15, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions
he's had a great spring so far, hasn't allowed a run
"The ego, the super-ego, and the Ed" - danmerqury
Bingo.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
by vignette17 on Mar 15, 2010 6:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
One more thing
Wasn’t Fox acquired pre-Cust DFA?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton
The A's knew they were going to non-tender Cust
They didn’t know that they would re-sign him, though they gambled they probably would be able to.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Good recap
I spent the weekend in Phoenix also, had a great time. I thought I saw baseballgirl on Sunday, but wasn’t sure if it was her.
My thoughts:
Completely agree on Fox, he is a very poor mans Cust, but without any sort of plate discipline.
I really liked what I saw out of Carter, he was not anxious at the plate, very seemingly mature ballplayer. I’d like to see him as our 1B of the future – not Barton. Michael Taylor on the other hand looked lost in his ABs, may have been trying to hard.
I enjoyed watching Rosales, he looks like a solid utility player for the A’s, similar to Marco Scutaro in 2006.
Tons of fun watching Chavvy at 1B. It would be fun to see him play this year and be somewhat productive to ride out his career with the A’s. Who knows.
I’m not expecting the A’s to win the division or anything, but I think they are going to be a lot of fun to watch this summer.
"Who's this Seagon guy? Is he in A-ball or something?" - Billy Beane
My eyeballs (and camera) were also there for the last time this spring today
I haven’t had to listen to the Buancasts to follow the team; evidently they’ve been even worse than I feared.
I’ll try to get the last set of photos up later. The bar and grill a block from the motel beckons right now.
I second this plea
Soak us with sunny Arizona pix of delirious awesomeness, we implore you!!!
Hey, I just bought the team from Lew Wolff... who wants to play third?
by emperor nobody on Mar 15, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Finally...
…somebody agrees with me on Fox. After watching him last season with the Cubs, I was non-plussed. He was great at hitting meatballs down the middle, but had serious issues with junk.
Given his sloppy defense, any future he has in the majors is (probably) as the DH. To achieve that, he needs better plate discipline.
"With Chance on first, and Evers on third,
Great things from the Cubs will soon be heard."
The only thing I would say about that is that
we’ve generally had an offence that watches ‘meatballs’ for strikes trying to ‘work the count’.
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
Here's the last set of photos
I’ve been putting these in postgame threads, but this post rather quickly went in above today’s postgame thread, and honestly, who wants to relive today’s game?
Besides going early to Phoenix Muni, another suggestion is to head to the minor league complex in the morning. Various lectures and drills going on over the four fields over there. This morning some of the drills included calling for pop-ups, bunting, getting leads, and pitchers covering first base. The players rotate from one drill to another every 15 minutes. Just stay out of the way and you can get close up and listen to and watch all the activity.
On to the middle of nothing, aka Goodyear. The ballpark is literally right next door to one of those places out in the desert where they park dead jetliners. However, Phoenix suburbia is steadily marching westward. I estimate that Phoenix and L.A. will merge approximately 125 years from now.
Suzuki, without the Fu Manchu mask shadow this time:
Adrian Cardenas:
“Oh, sheesh, Bob, that creepy guy with the camera is here AGAIN. Dude needs to get a life.”
Chris Carter:
“No, Susan, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a guy give up 10 runs without getting an out either. But he’s still our Opening Night starting pitcher.”
by Soaker on Mar 15, 2010 10:10 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for sneaking Jane Lee in the shot there
I'll have a sandwich and a draft(sic). - Bill King (RIP)
it reminds me of a couple things that make me happy.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 15, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Mine came with ass in it.
sock puppets have never successfully defended castles. -nm
by Leopold Bloom on Mar 16, 2010 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions
That's what Japanese models are for.
"Cheese is the fruit juice nature intended."- The Reverend Billy Lard
by Gaijin_Suketto on Mar 16, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would you be thanking him for that shot?
Some motherfcukers are always trying to ice skate uphill - Blade.
It's rather frustrating
trying to get Ms. Lee into a casual shot. As you can see, “petite” is a pretty good description, and that does not describe too many other people who would be surrounding her in a postgame interview situation. It was almost like Big Sis Slusser was aware of my presence and was trying to block me.
Anyone see that Mychael Urban video on CSNbayarea.com that had Jane Lee in it?
She said, like, two sentences, one off camera.
Taken down with hearts alive, our hearts alive.
I did
it seemed like he didn’t have much interest in speaking with her beyond the “hey, how you doing, kthnxbye”.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
Great pis Soaker
I like how CC towers over everybody
don’t feed the trolls, they’ll multiply like a wet Gizmo.....Mr Tea
great piss soaker?
sounds like a golden showers porno.
You have to include smiley faces - Poppy
;- ) :- ) :-O : -> : -] : -}
i was there the last three days too!
i have to disagree about Fox though. both my dad and I were impressed with how versatile he was and the homerun he hit on Sunday was a great shot.
i got some great pictures of Carter and Taylor, as well as some others, on Friday when they were at Tuscon so hopefully I can get those up soon. gotta love spring training!
OT: How is Coors Field?
Worth visiting? Rox v. Marlins?
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Coors Field is Exceptional
Nothing too hokey about the ballpark. Every seat is a good one. Sit in down the RF stands, you get a brilliant view of the field and Rocky Mtns. Very friendly atmosphere.
by Colorado Fan on Mar 16, 2010 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree
I have been to Coors Field three times and it is an exceptional ball park. pam go and you will not be disappointed.
don’t feed the trolls, they’ll multiply like a wet Gizmo.....Mr Tea
Thanks, I will.
I’m going to Denver for a conference. Will make sure to get to the Sunday afternoon game! Can’t wait.
The funny thing about baseball is that people will believe what they want to believe. -Joe Posnanski 8/29/09
Calvin says
Get
Rid
Of
Slimy
grosS
m*****f***ing c***s***ing peanut butter and jelly!! f*** f*** f***!!!
re: Fox
I’m not going to judge him off of some ST stats when he’s been successful in the very recent past. I agree that he probably shouldn’t be allowed in the OF without supervision but to say that the guy doesn’t have a clue at the plate is a little harsh, if you’re asking me. For all we know he may be working on a few things or he’s just in a bad slump. I’ll defer to past performances before I get too worked up over a few ST games.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
Note that he's been successful
being old for his leagues while never walking. Tommy Everidge II!!!!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Could be true
But he also put up some impressive numbers in the bigs last year as well (SSS). In this case I’d put more weight in those major league numbers than some at-bats in ST.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin
by Helloooo 1st on Mar 16, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Again, I'm not putting weight just into those ST at bats
I’m heavily weighing his reputation along with the presence of Cust, Chavez, and Kouzmanoff on the current roster.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
Fake Jocks
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Wow
A whole three days watching. I think there was a point when Jake Fox hit three home runs in three days last year. Probably would have looked like King Kong then….fuck Jack Cust.
by AgitationStation on Mar 16, 2010 4:13 AM PDT reply actions
since he apparently cannot open his eyes to see his own uniform, I guess it's okay
"Do I talk to myself? No, I just remind myself of what I'm trying to do. You know, I never answer myself so how can I be talking to myself?" - Rickey
Everything is better with bacon.
by cuppingmaster on Mar 16, 2010 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions
So which is it?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal
I love seeing photos of games, pre-games, post-games
this certainly could have been a fanpost of its own.
Thanks, Soaker
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